The Jon Sanchez Show
6/24 Investment Psychology - Fear, Greed and Loss Aversion (Among others)
You're welcome to the John Sanchez show on his stock 780 kwh pleasure to be with you pleasure to be with my cohost Jason gun of Sanchez wealth management one day down Jay one day done four more to go that's all it is yeah your market was screaming today it was thank you I've been waiting all day for you to compliment me on my market but you know didn't get it didn't get that's alright that's loaned up that's loaned dubs can handle it man we can handle it by ourselves I know I know and when the Dow is working that means values working so it's got to be tough right have you noticed all yeah have you noticed all seriousness though we just can't seem to get both of them really to run right this is like what we had a few weeks ago when we hit forty thousand plus on the Dow he had the strength in the Dow and the weakness in the NASDAQ so that was another interesting day today they kind of you know weakness on the NASDAQ as we'll talk about but yeah I like I like what you're saying rotation that's what we want to see much rather see this then correlation and everything going down together to see Nvidia down six percent and you know the S&P to be like yeah okay it is a good thing exactly indeed it was indeed it was well we of course will give you the review of what exactly happened today and what happened with the indices and of course some of the internal movements and movers and the shakers we had no economic reports today so nothing to mention on that side of things then hopefully we can get a early start into tonight's topic you know you've heard Jason and I mentioned this so many times over the years the importance of psychology when it comes to investing and we haven't visited this topic in quite some time and we're going to kind of give you we'll call it a little bit of an in-depth review instead of just saying hey you need to be positive you need to be optimistic we want to get into really deep into your brain and help you become a better investor so what we're going to be talking about is first of all what's called behavioral biases and these biases are something that again I don't care if you're brand new to the market you've been around a while or you do it for a living like Jason and I do you do get biases and I'll just give you an example what some of these biases are one that's really easy to get the overconfidence bias right you make a couple good trades me up yeah I got this market figured out the next thing you know that market smacks you across the face with a 2x4 confirmation bias loss aversion and hurting those are some of the things under the behavioral biases and then we're going to get into the emotional side of things oh Jason the fear and the greed is Michael Douglas and in Wall Street greed is good well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't regret a version oh that's right boy isn't that a fun one to talk about actions that could lead to regret which can result in missed opportunities pride and envy that falls under our emotional factors and then we'll get into some heavy stuff called cognitive errors and then finally market sentiment and investment investment behavior so don't know if we're going to get through the whole list but you'll get the gist of it that investing is so much psychological and the stronger you can become the more mentally tough as we like to say the better off you're going to be so we hope that going through tonight's list with you in discussing these from our experience will again make you a better investor right that's our goal ten four amen amen all right beautiful beautiful all right my friend well let's get an early start take it away on the market recap well I mean if you've been chasing the fang high flyer stocks you probably didn't have a very good day amazon was down about two percent broad calm down three plus percent call calm down five and a half percent was in videos down six point seven percent today you'll call it profit taking I'd say it was a bit of a sort of momentum shift where remember the momentum factor are where you own the most the highest momentum names in terms of you look at the last twelve months minus the current month and you'd want to own the ones that are doing the best and you'd want to be short the ones that are doing the worst well you had a big factor reversal today where momentum the opposite occurred where all the high flyers were down a lot and the names that had lagged energy some of those areas picked up the baton and ran with it we started out the show it's healthy you want to see areas like the small caps pick up the baton when other areas are falling the Dow Jones right industrials have been lagging quite a bit over the last you know couple almost month and change people talking about oh no the transports aren't confirming and so on and so forth and you get a day like today that I think help people feel a little bit better banks were up almost two percent today that I mentioned I'd rather see that healthy rotation inside of the market instead of a big high correlation and videos down everything else is to this was the fear we had of oh no what if Apple went down and guess what it did and then somebody else sort of picked up that ball and ran with it so a bit of a rotation overall international markets held up pretty well it was a quiet volume day overall we're going to get some data a little bit later in the week clearly PC at the end of the week but I think we've got what 70 billion of two year treasury auction tomorrow which probably sets the tone for interest rates the 10 year edit for and a quarter when we sort of settled out so yeah nice to nice day for all other areas the the auspices of a diversified portfolio but who we shall see maybe tomorrow all the other tech names go flying again you know I was thinking of a story I read this morning how you're missing about navidian let's just kind of in broad com so let's let's talk about the semiconductor sector for just a moment very tragic story but it ties into this and this this article I believe is in the Wall Street Journal I saw talking about a construction manager okay this guy specializes in commercial construction and the article the gist of the article was about how he almost committed suicide after during and then right after the pandemic because of the stress of the workload right so many guys could not work but he had he's getting pressure and he manages I mean big big warehouses and factories that are being built but the story went on so I won't you know pull anybody's heartstrings he survived and didn't end up committing suicide even though he literally had a gun ready to take to work to do it a very tragic story but he was talking about how things have changed now and how these construction workers these iron workers specifically there is just not enough people and the article goes on to talk about the amount of stimulus that Biden in the secure act and so on so forth has put into the economy and and we've got another major pharmaceutical today announcing a massive factory for the their weight loss drug so you know we are seeing it you know we're going back to the inflation side of things it's pretty tough to combat inflation when there's not enough workers these workers are getting top dollar right now and there's not enough of them to build all of these things that the infrastructure bills and things you know are saying that have to be built and then of course you go into the the roads and everything else that go along with it and I thought I was very fascinated to think about that right we never talked about the the commercial construction worker we always talk residential but you know there is a lot of work out there there's massive projects and these are massive massive projects that are being built and is there enough bodies to do it and you know according to this guy the answer is no and the stress levels right back to where it was uh you know during the pandemic obviously a different uh different twist on it but I thought that that was interesting you know you think about it what Intel's building a new factory and and I mean there's all kinds of them going on and not just in the semiconductor space but like I said in the pharmaceuticals etc so you know that'll be something to watch and see how how that you know continues to keep inflation a little bit higher and like you said we're going to get PC at the end of the week see if we're starting to see any numbers come down there but um yeah got both those construction workers and then the article talked about of course having to work in the Arizona heat right now and on iron and so and so forth so yeah exactly those are those are tough dudes doing that stuff and very tough dudes so all right well so it goes into being a retooling the workforce too right I mean it does that's right you know folks who sort of did this one thing forever and decide that now I'm unemployable like that's not true you're unemployable given your current experience but there's a wealth of sites out there google a lot of these firms offer you know pretty comprehensive learning packages for software and we talk about AI and you know there's a lot of things that people can do and just as a you know sort of correlate to that conversation to retool themselves to be you know valuable in other areas too it's not just you know this is all I know because that's going to be the biggest thing in the future is being able to do multiple things not just you know being good at one yep absolutely so we finished with a game with all that set of 261 on the dial a 0.67 percent rise the 39,000 4/11 Nasdaq however lost 193 1.09 percent closing at 17 4.96 and the s&p giving up 17 points 0.31 percent finished the day at 5,447 slight gain in oil 1.2 percent 8163 a barrel good day for gold $13.20 rise 2,344 20 as Jason mentioned a one basis point decrease on the tenure yield at four and a quarter and then you want to mention on the the gold side of things that was nice move today $13.20 weakness in the dollar now I mean again we've been sort of range bound to still think that the risk is to the upside just given the trade but yeah it's been I noticed on the commitment to traders reports it seems that retail has been the biggest buyer of both gold and silver it hasn't been the institutional school they can tell you right the smart money exactly yeah so we'll see but they continue to buy as far as futures and forwards and things so you know I still think that we're we're higher before we're lower east and gold and so exactly long as Costco shoppers keep buying it we're gonna be fine Novo Nordisk that's the one that's going to build the new uh North Carolina 4.1 billion dollar facility to boost their output of uh wagov and ozebek so there's there's the pharmaceutical side to come back to there to figure out they can can remember what the name of the pharmaceutical company was all right you are now up to date that means we get to be uh ready and set and go when we come back on our great topic tonight the psychology of money we'll tackle that in a moment let's turn it over to Kristin Snow in the right now traffic center hey Kristin welcome back to the John Sanchez show and his talk 780k which was Jason gone in Sanchez wealth management all right before we get to our topic psychology of money my good friends over at S&W tractor wanted me to remind you what a great time it is hey it's hot out there we know that the projects still have to get done how'd you like to be in an air conditioned tractor getting all those laborious type of activities taken care of yeah you can all you got to do is go see Stan and the crew they have them small ones big ones you got it in everything in between as I like to say zero percent financing for 84 months that's the bottom line go see Stan and the crew at S&W tractor for their great coyote packages located at 4880 East 9 Lane and Carson City online at S&W tractor.com and don't forget the phone number 882 1225 that's 882 1225 all right once again a 261 gain on the Dow lost 193 on the NASDAQ and a 17 point decline on the S&P 500 now get down with a day like today especially if you're tech heavy maybe mentally you're feeling a little beat up tonight well we're going to try to help you out on this so we put together a great list of different types of biases and emotional factors etc and you know just remember this folks and Jason Chaimin here the psychology of investing is a fascinating topic right so many studies have been done about it yet no one can really figure it out even though it is in my opinion one of the most important things having capital and having the right frame of mind and in knowing these things that we're going to teach everybody tonight probably you know definitely two of the most important things to to lead to success when it comes to investing well I mean I think ultimately when you listen to this list it's trying to identify which one of these things that you suffer from right we don't all tend to have the same whoa or we'd all be on the same drugs but I think that you know knowing what type of a trader you are some of the issues that have hounded you in the past you know much like anything you got to work on going to the gym you got to work on your diet you got to work on if you're you know doing these things as often as we do you got to work on skills and processes that can help avoid some of the sort of known knowns and your personality right some people tend to have more loss aversion others have zero loss aversion and take excessive risk and even if it hurts they do it again and again and again so it's just trying to decide what type of a investor or trader you want to be and these a lot of these things probably you can extend to all sorts of areas of your life it's not just buying and selling stocks but you know at least it shows that there's more than one way to to skin a cat when it comes to you know what makes a good versus a poor investor exactly all right let's get our biases out of the way before we go to break so we've got five behavioral biases we want to share with you the first one is overconfidence bias and this is basically where you as an investor overestimate your knowledge you overestimate your abilities and really the accuracy of the information that you receive and what the ultimate outcome is it leads you to excessive trading and excessive risk taking yeah I mean that kind of says it all it's it's something where people tend to think that they're right all the time and aren't really wide open to listening to others and that you know you you'd probably bet too aggressively right think of gambling you bet too aggressively at at times that you may think you have all the information but ultimately you may have incomplete information and that puts you in a in a tough spot it's one of the most likely you will right it must like you will because yeah nobody even on the professional level no one can outsmart the market right that's why index investing has become so popular over the years people are like you know and I've given up trying to read the stories and get analysts opinions etc I'm just going to buy the overall market and you know if that works for you great but if it doesn't okay the way we've done enough shows talking about the negatives of index investing or using that as your sole source of of investment strategy but the bottom line is yeah don't get over knowledge or over confident don't get cocky because again it's so easy to do that when you have a number you know a successful investment successful trades and then like I said the market will always always bring you back down to reality all right our second bias is the confirmation bias now this is where investors tend to seek out information that confirms their preconceptions and ignores information that contradicts them so in other words yeah in that a great way so in other words yeah as an investor you will I mean let's just pick an example let's say you like apple all right I'm just going to pick this like I said just no no bias towards apple but all right you love apple right everything that you tend to congregate to from your reading your research etc is bullish about apple right and what you do if some analyst just as an example comes out and says something negative about apple the first thing out of your mind is or out of your mouth oh no no no that analyst is wrong or those downgrades that we just got of apple those are wrong right so what you're doing mentally and this is so easy to do you're seeking out information that agrees with you but yet you're ignoring information of what everybody else is saying about it or other people are saying about it what's the key Jason successful investing it's a little bit of both isn't it yeah I mean again confirmation bias probably I find people tend to do this with politics too much right where they just sort of have their view and live in their own eco chamber and and any outside information is just flawed that they're right and I think you know confirmation bias can get you in a lot of trouble very much to your point you're not listening to probably the oftentimes more accurate news for wanting to hear what you want to hear and that's a lot of times what people do with legacy investments where they hold on to their losers and cut their winners confirmation bias oftentimes is what creates that remember folks the key to successful investing is you you know as we'll talk about have systems have disciplines etc but also listen to everything around you right Jason I do this all the time we listen to analysts we listen to I mean anything that we can get our eyes and ears on we want to grab you know garner it and absorb it right it's like putting a piece of a puzzle together right you got all these little pieces and you want to try to put them all together to get the clear picture and then ultimately make your own decision right that's the goal or you and your financial visor make the decision but don't just go one side or the other because eventually you're going to be wrong on it all right our third bias anchoring now this is basically where we rely too heavily on the first piece of information that is encountered and that's what we call the anchor and not adjusting sufficiently in response to new information another example is just pick on apple today you bought apple at twenty dollars a share it's at two hundred nine dollars and fifteen cents a day right apples the anchor but what happens if something comes out tomorrow and the news or analyst comments or whatever that let's use an example this is that many times with apple fox con right there they're big chip manufacturer etc or at least they used to be comes out and says hey we are we were just told by apple and again this has happened that we need to reduce the amount of production slash employees on the assembly line in china because of a slowdown right this has happened before but she was an investor go oh no no no no no no no no apple's not saying anything about it that's my first piece of information and uh oh i'm not adjusting to the new information so i'm going to continue to hold that stock could be right could be wrong but you need to listen and again formulate your decision perfect yeah that leads us to the next one loss aversion right where uh people and i think this boils down to it you know takes uh ten good ones to get rid of one bad one right where you're afraid of the loss um you know being as owning a stock and having to go up 10 for some reason doesn't feel quite as good as as the bad part of it going down 10 right and um you know in in terms of risk and allocation people tend to have loss aversion um and it can get them into trouble they panic when stocks are down a little bit and sell them um and you know that happens quite a bit but that's uh i would argue that would be the number one on the list um that uh you need to be paying attention to that if that is heavily ranked in the schema of your decision-making that you know maybe having someone else who who doesn't have quite the loss aversion of focus on things for you very beautiful all right we got one more bit with uh we'll hit that one we come back and then we'll get into our emotional factors of the psychology of money let's turn it over to Kristen Snow she has news traffic and weather hey Kristen welcome back to the John Sanchez showing news talk 780 kwh which Jason got in sanchez wealth management 261 gain on the Dow down 193 on the Nasdaq and a give up of 17 on the s&p 500 all right the psychology of money so we got through our uh four out of five on our behavioral bias by biases excuse me we talked about overconfidence confirmation anchoring loss aversion now the last bias that we want to discuss before we go to the rest of our list is their hurting uh this is a very common one very easy to get involved with and what does it mean most the name says you follow the herd or you follow the different market trends with that any independent analysis and that often leads to bubbles and to crashes now a great herd mentality um has been nividia right everybody both professionals retails everybody's jumping on it doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be a bubble or that there's going to be a crash but you can get my example that people like to congregate to things that they hear about oh here's another example Jason that I just thought about how about the meme stocks is that a herd mentality or what herd bias yeah I think it within a certain crowd it definitely was right and then those who are angry have lost aversion or any of those sort of things are running from those things uh as well just you know typically they move too much and they freak people out but yeah herding is uh uh uh something you tend to see quite a bit uh at inflection points of the market similar to where we are now yeah yep exactly um I've got to tell you a quick story on that one just popped in my mind so the other day I ran into this young man we we had our new little puppy out we're out taking a walk and this kid you know probably I don't know mid 20s or so um kind of look like a surfer dude went up to him when he's flying a drone I went up to and I start talking to him just learning about you know a really good pilot and everything so we start talking he goes you know what I asked him I said what do you do for a living he goes I'm a trader and I said really and he goes yeah I um I'm part of a a group where we give investment advice on the internet I said are you a licensed professional like myself there's oh no no no no we just we we have a big group herd that follows us and we charge them a monthly fee for our investment advice like and you're doing this without a license but that is what's going on and you and I've had this discussion many times there's a lot of this going on out there these chat rooms these different things where people you know again as you and I joked a few weeks ago you can you know all of you folks that you don't have a license you could literally go on the internet right now and as long as you're not charging somebody you can say whatever you want you can get every friend family that you want and say hey you know what we're going to pile into XYZ stock and there's nothing wrong with that but the minute you charge that's when you need a license but herding is becoming me very very popular of course with with the internet and and of course social media and so on so forth so be very careful of that please be very careful of that guys like I said real life example all right let's get into our second area the emotional factors oh these are fun we got three of these for you the fear and the greed yeah I mean again they rhyme a lot of these right where folks are chasing after the hottest thing or like you'd said fear which I think dominates too many people's mindset when they're instead of buying a stock and just waiting for something bad to happen that's one camp and the other camp just expects something good to happen all the time and the greed part is where you I always use the analogy of bulls bears and pigs right bulls get rich bears get rich and pigs get slaughtered you know you can be either extreme and and win it's when you get uh two two two uh out over your skis and anyone bet that karma tends to come back and whack you over the hand um you know and so I think fear and greed is something that uh you should always assess in everything you're doing is it an investment or are you gambling I think fear and greed shows up pretty well there there you go great example there great example all right our second emotional factor is regret aversion this is where you avoid actions that could lead to regret oh I can't buy that because it could go down right I'm going to regret that and by doing this you that would result in missed opportunities or holding losing investments way too long right everybody has regret aversion no one wants to live to regret making an incorrect investment decision we all want to be right every single time we make a trade we know that's not possible but also the biggest thing is um you you live to regret in the opportunity so I'll give you an example let's say um I don't know let's go back a few years and let's say you you put a bunch of money into intel right we'll pick on the semiconductor group put a bunch of money into intel and it just never went anywhere matter of fact you matter of fact you lost money right and now this great thing called nvidia surfaces another semiconductor stock obviously ai in different area but you're like oh no no no no I lost way too much money in the semiconductor area so I'm not going to get into nvidia right so that's what risk or regret aversion is all about is you you you find yourself missing out on so many opportunities because of what has happened in the past or maybe you held on to intel way too long on the hopes as we'll talk about in a moment it's another problem on the hopes that it's going to go up so be very very cognizant of regret aversion oh how about this one Jason pride and envy oh no everyone's talking about it around the cocktail party and you know that they own this stock and I you know those are the things I mean again we hear about tips from others but I don't know I think there's a few bible verses about envy and coveting and so on and so forth but you know I think you know try to make your decisions based on your goals and what excites you about buying things or investing versus trying to chase other people's sort of successes because you'll get yourself in a lot of trouble trying to keep up with the Joneses do you ever get jealous of the guys you and I see on guys and gals you see on cnbc that you know that maybe they're a private equity guy or gal or or you know they come from Silicon Valley in many cases and here's the point is yeah you know they seem to see what kind of give a bio when they start interviewing this person oh he was an initial you know initial capital contributor to you know Facebook and you know they give about 10 different companies that are all now worth you know billions and billions of dollars and yeah this guy got involved or this gal got involved early and you write they you know written it up and now they're worth billions of dollars you know that's a that's a real hard one because then you I know my brain you kind of go boy if I wasn't doing this for a living I'd go hey you know what those guys are pretty successful and you know they had the wise uh middle capacity to get into a great stock in the beginning what now are they looking at right you want to try to emulate what they have done because they have a great truck record same with the wall street analyst right that's why some of these analysts are very very well followed very well respected because they've had success and wall street always you know what what did you do for me today not what you did for me yesterday so pride and envy that can be a really really important emotional factor there sure can yeah all right now let's get a little heavy here. Cognitive errors now the first one is what is called representiveness heuristic now if you're not familiar with the word heuristic this is basically where you enable someone to discover or learn something for themselves like okay like we try to do with our kids right they got to learn make mistakes etc so the first cognitive error is under this representative heuristic is making decisions on similarities to the past even if those similarities are superficial so the example that i have i'd love to hear your example is stocks always rise when a republican becomes president right we just have this discussion on Friday that's where you're making a decision based upon what you thought happened in the past that means it's always going to happen in the future and a lot of times that is not the case what's yeah it's like spurious correlation a lot of times right like every time it's sunny i yeah drop my coffee you know i mean just things that really aren't connected yeah i mean that's that uh is again that's the deep psychological right where you know it's very you know i i tend to do well when i trade if i flip these three coins and you know right right exactly then you're Jack Nicholson and as good as it gets and you're having some problems yeah i uh all of these are you know again they can be trading things but they're really life things right where you tend to make decisions based on you know sort of concerns or issues that have had in the past i think it's extending that into your trading behavior uh do your best to not do that um you know if it's something that when i do this kind of research and i have this kind of an output that it tends to be fruitful then yes but if it's something that again can be spurious and you can create all kinds of correlations just because your data mining um and data mining isn't listed in here but ultimately going searching for your answer uh you know as much as possible until you create it effectively um that's a simpler like a heuristic that happens in this case exactly all right we come back i want to talk about the next one the availability heuristic this is one that i in that fault i will fully admit this one we'll discuss that when we come back let's turn it over christmas know to wrap us up in the right now traffic center hey christen look at the john sanshay show on his talk 780k always with jason gun all right we're talking about the psychology of investing now we're going to go on we're under the cognitive errors uh area we just talked about representative heuristic now availability heuristic now this is the one that i will admit i fault for this one all the time this is where we overestimate the likelihood of events based on their availability and memory often influenced by recent news or dramatic events now jason what i'm referring to on this one is i bear my soul uh is international uh events right last one of course when we saw the rockets flying um you know in israel and so on so forth my brain i don't know if it's from watching so much you know the the Persian Gulf the all the different uh you know international events in the middle east etc but the minute that my brain sees rockets being launched i tend to go i have to take a deep breath and you do a great job of grounding me on this um i'm not getting too overexcited because you you watch the news right and there's something again like i said when you see those rockets firing and going through the air and landing and so on so forth again i go back to memory i'm like oh this is not good we need to make you know some decisions on this so that one's a real big weakness for me over estimating the likelihood of events based upon availability and memory yeah i mean that's you know but i think a lot of people do that right you just sort of assume you know that uh the worst has come right or or yeah i've seen this before yes yes it's going to happen again right and and these are all very interesting these are you know all predominantly like leather couch material but um much less trading per se but i think also too you know uh the this stock that i owned or this ETF that i own did this or that or the other after this happened or like you said when missiles flew the you know this happened to me and clients lost money and those are things that tend to create some of those other things to come in of loss aversion right some of these are triggers right and then the others are sort of how you ingest the information and react i think uh trying to mute some of your reaction and or create uh a healthy reaction to those things sort of like you said sometimes the answer is uh wait and see um because more often than not right um sort of again that uh one of my favorite lines from art cash in at ubs is you buy the nuclear warfare because if it doesn't happen the market's going to go up and if it does who cares right it doesn't really matter so um but it's uh those are you know these are good things they're good things to notice if people realize it good great to know what your weaknesses for sure but all right the mental accounting this is where we treat money differently depending upon its source or i see this a lot yes rather than considering it as part of a larger portfolio um one example i came to mind i'd love to hear yours um a lot of times when people will retire from a company and they're loaded up in company stock it's very difficult for them to sell that stock even though we say look at you've got 80% of your you know your net worth tied up in xyz company oh yeah but it put my kid through college and allowed me to retire like okay and that's that's confirmation bias and that's regret aversion and that's oh well you know all these stories i've heard which prides like double digit stories total of oh you know so-and-so kept this forever and they became a gajillionaire when their company became this or the other and that's again you know all of these cognitive things can point to some of the core behavioral biases and i think that loss aversion is what people go back to for those reasons the flip side is if you have 80% of your stock of your portfolio in your company stock i'll talk to you about loss aversion because yeah lots of companies have imploded and you don't want that that's right in ron that's exactly all right last uh we're gonna hustle through these last five points we're gonna go to strategies to mitigate psychological biases all right so in other words we've gone through all these with you every human being we're all humans we're all subjected to these things maybe more one more than the other but what do we do to overcome these issues right minimally we've got to be strong when it comes to investing so first one is education and awareness you have to understand what we went through tonight you have to again be honest with yourself and say you know what like i just admitted i'm subjected the way my brain is wired i'm subjected to this type of of news and things like that so understand the common bias be aware of the influences on your decisions and you know whether you change or don't i mean most of us that are getting older is pretty difficult to change but uh but just know what your weaknesses are and the next one diversification which you know is near and dear to my heart uh don't make anything big enough that it's going to keep you up at night right flip side is you know uh if you have too many little things they're not necessarily going to you know get you excited about anything at all but i think diversifying away some of the risk can uh at least help you with freaking out over big moves one way or the other exactly next one speaks for itself long-term perspective focus on your long-term goals don't focus on the short-term market fluctuations listen to this show professional advice right a lot of folks who have learned by other people's mistakes right i've made lots johns made lots uh we're here to tell you you know things that we've tripped over so you don't that's right and lastly structure decision-making have a system implemented stick to it music to yours your policy and procedure process uh that was a lot of fun Jason great job i will do to get tomorrow night in the john santa show god bless and have a great evening