(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hello guardians and welcome to episode 108 of Podcast vs. Enemies, a Destiny podcast dedicated to the PvE sandbox. The lads are back this week with news to cover, questions to answer, and weapons to break down. Court, what have you been up to since our last episode? - Hello lads, nice to be back. Just be doing some GMs, just the usual kind of, we're getting into the mid-season, mid-episode vibes. I did also do duality with my IRL friends, so shout out to Lucha Bear. Have we actually talked about duality in the last few episodes? - The shotgun, the dungeon, the exotic class mission? - What are you talking about? - The exotic class mission, sorry. - I don't think that we really have, just very briefly in our last week segment right here, but yeah, not a ton. - Yeah, I should say, dual destiny, not duality. Too many things called duality or dual. Yeah, so the exotic class item mission, I've got some comments from him. He said that it was a very fun experience. Love that it's more accessible. You don't need three or six people. The puzzles were not too complicated, but the amount of ads really helped put the pressure on, definitely agree with that, and forcing you to try and think, well, killing, which was a fun challenge. Yeah, absolutely agree with those sentiments. I know there is a little bit of some controversy, I suppose, at the start when people were like, wait, this needs two people. You need another person with you. You can't start this solo. But it's well worth your time going in there and actually doing the mission. We'll talk about, like, prismatic builds in the future and the actual exotic class item in the future, but the actual mission is just a ton of fun. And yeah, may we get more of these very fun missions? Emptice, what have you been up to? Yeah, you and I did my first dual destiny run, and I enjoyed it. I had said to you, it was probably one of my favorite, if not my favorite, exotic mission, that I was kind of dreading because I figured we'd probably have to run this over and over again to the point where I would stop enjoying the mission. And that has, unfortunately, become the case. But yeah, that first time through, that was special. Great scenery, the timing, the mechanics. That was all very fun. And then the little PvP twist at the end was also the neat surprise as well. But that was not what I did last week. We actually did that the week before, if I recall correctly. This past week, I have not touched Iron Banner yet. I was saving that for the second week. Just because I don't have a ton of things to chase, it'll probably be claws of the wolf that I'll be going for solely. And it seems like loot is raining aplenty, as well as some crafting materials, which is nice. So yeah, I'll probably do like one reset and then do the second reset of Iron Banner rank. The next time it comes around in like half a year or whenever that new calendar is. But I did the campaign on Hunter. On Legendary, did wrap that up. I do need to complete the adventures for the rest of the Hunter Prismatic Kit. And then did do some very shambolic Grandmaster Nightfalls with these here lads. Lots of love, lots of memories, lots of laughter. Lots of dying from unnecessary dying. I might even go so far to say. But I will let Saint explain that in a little bit more detail. So that's been my week. How about yourself, Saint? Yeah, I'm still trying to recover from getting hit by that train. Honestly, a little sore after that one. But where did it even come from? Like who's to say, you know, I've never seen a train there before. Honestly, never. I don't even think in any of my 84 clears of that GM if I ever seen that train. But, you know, I appreciate that they're trying to, you know, keep us on our toes and mix it up season to season. You know, it's, it's nice. Other than, yeah, then that when playing a little Iron Banner cause the wolf is doing pretty nice, you know, some stuff like inhales and moments is really solid on that weapon, pretty strong archetype, all that jazz. Also finally finished upgrading my DMT. I just never gone back to run prestige. You just have to just run prestige a few times to get the upgrade and intrinsic once you craft it. And I wanted to try that out since it's update. And it's, you know, feeling pretty strong. It's feeling sticky. I think I need to just spend a few more games with it to like really, you know, nail down the fuel and like pacing of my shots when it comes to like landing crits from the hip at a moderate distance. But yeah, feeling pretty good. And just hanging out for the July here in the States. Just relaxing out in the lake with some friends. Much needed time to just chill out. Kourt, who do we have to shout out this week before we jump into the meetings show? Yeah, we've got quite a lot to shout out today. I will say just before we shout out some patrons, we don't have any trouble or any sort of reviews. But if you would like to send any reviews, make sure to reach out to us. Leave a little kind of review on whatever platform you're listening to. A rating as well, that counts as well. We'll get all that feedback and all the analytics related to that. But in terms of new patrons. And this is up to date as of the 7th of July, which is when we're recording. So if you don't hear your name, it might have just came out between the period between us recording and then us publishing. So, Autodidactos, Eggs in Bed, Frenchie, Friday, Growny Ads. Probably butchered that. I am Anthony X, New Chemist, Shadow 2400, Waxie Q16. And then we've got some real names. So if you didn't hear us last episode, we're not going to shout out your full name. I did get a comment, a question about this just before a couple of days ago. So we're not shouting out full names. So if you'd like to change your name, you can do that through the patron. So we'll just do your first name if it is obviously a full name. So we've got Brian, Chris, Dave, Elliot, James, John D, John, Luke, Pierre, Rob A, and Robert K. And for our grandmasters, we've got two new ones. We've got David's. We've got Gellied, Poppy. And those join Dark Wizard 85, Deakin, I am K Rose, the Shazzle, the Puckster, the Mirror, and this moment as our PvE grandmasters. And until the end of July, we'll also be checking out DMB sponsors and that's Asking Monk. I am K Rose and this moment. You can find us. I should say you could send us all kinds of feedback directly to any of our socials or via our Discord server. Positive critical and constructive feedback helps with the trajectory of the podcasts and how we present and break down builds, activities, and much more in the PvE sandbox for all kinds of Destiny players. We also want to extend our special thanks and appreciation to everyone that supports PvE, whether that is downloading and listening to our show, discussing it on social media and our Discord server, or supporting us via Patreon. Speaking of Patreon, if you'd like to support us, you can find the link to Patreon found in the show notes of this episode. You'll get access to members-only channels in our Discord server behind the scenes content, text write-ups of weapon breakdowns, input on the future of the show, and much, much more. Okay, impetus, what are we talking about this week? Well, we've got more weapon breakdowns on the dock here, and this week we are talking about the World Drop weapon set here from the launch of the expansion. So, there's a few of them this time around. Of course, not all of them are worth talking about in equal detail, as World Drop is kind of the things that if there's something nice, it will probably land in your pocket at some point. Hopefully it's still nice by the time it does drop for you, but very few of these guns typically are must-have right at the start of an expansion or season or episode whenever they drop. So, that's what we're covering today. Of course, we do have some housekeeping, little podcasts/patreon updates, and our first Patreon question that we'll be covering. As far as housekeeping, our Twitter handle is pod versus enemies, and that had been changed from the previous D&B related handle, so if you are trying to contact us on Twitter or you just want to follow us, it's pod versus enemies, and that is a VS, not the full word versus. So pod, P-O-D, VS, and then the word enemies, E-N-E-M, I-E-S on Twitter. As for some updates, we did post some breakdowns of a few weapons, Faithkeeper, Sightline Survey, and Lost Signal, all from episode 107, have gone up with our thoughts on those guns for our patrons, and then Court has picked a particular exotic weapon in favor of his for P-V-E that has gone up. Court, do you want to leave that a surprise for people to hop over to Patreon and see, or do you want to spoil it here now for our listeners? I'll leave this as a little surprise. Okay. All right. So, yes, we are also covering about exotics. I think these are more just the host favorites ones that we've used, or ones that are the collective favorite of the three of us. They'll probably come up whenever we just want to talk about them, but the legendary ones from the episodes that we covered, those will go up on a more regular basis here moving forward. We do also have a Patreon question here. We had put up a post on Patreon for topics and questions, things that you'd like us to touch on. If we get some questions that we will, that we do want to talk about, we'll make sure to answer them during an episode, but that's not necessarily a guarantee. Again, if there are no responses to that, so we'll just keep going on with that week's episode. But we did get a wonderful question from FargoBarga here asking us, "How do we feel each of us that the Stasis subclasses are doing in the wake of Prismatics launch?" Fargo then went on to say that he feels pretty powerful on Hunter, but the builds are still very focused and more weapon dependent than other elements, saying, "I will take that second part of the question and point it at you. Do you feel like the builds are still very focused and more weapon dependent than the other elements when it comes to Stasis Titan?" I usually just put together a Candice Ridge Lancecap build, which is probably not words that many people expected to come out of my mouth in this episode, but I don't know. It's kind of a mixed bag, you know, when he says, "I find pretty powerful on Hunter, but the builds are still very focused on the weapons." And, you know, I would say that's true to some extent, but I didn't feel like I minded it as much because it's more of just what is the weapon that I'm using. It doesn't even have to be Stasis necessarily because of the way that Candice Ridge Lancecap is working. I'm pretty sure I was using it with outbreak, like most of the time, right? And I didn't feel like I was that dependent on it. Now, there are some builds that tie into that a lot, but just the nature of like the exotic and the build that I've been running recently. I didn't feel like it was too much of an issue. What about you guys? So, I do agree with the sentiment about Hunter. I think Stasis still needs a little bit of work. I think recently, the Bungie comms team, Destiny 2 team on Twitter, they did answer a few questions. And one of them was related to Stasis, if I can recall. And they did say, yeah, we are aware they're still like some sentiment about Stasis subclass on its own. And yeah, I think Stasis was obviously built in a very different sandbox, a very different game back in the day. It was very hot in PvP. I don't need to retread that, but I think at least looking at some of the sentiment in regards to, I think specifically Titan, I think needs a little bit more of improvement. I think Stasis Hunter is doing rather well. I've always maintained it's a very good build. And related to the exotic weapon that is over on the Patreon, I do have a build related to that. And I do talk about the synergies. And there is a lot of stuff to do with Stasis related to that weapon, but also related to other things. But yeah, I absolutely agree that I feel like compared to other elements, especially Strand, I think Strand's the direct competitor. I think just needs a little bit more work. The Stasis Frost Armor, very good. But I think we've discussed this, maybe not on the podcast, we've discussed this during our GM runs where we think the idea of Frost Armor is good, but we kind of wish it was a kind of decaying shield rather than just dropping off entirely. I think that would be a very good go-to, even if we have much lower reductions to Frost Armor overall. You mean like a worm gods kind of a thing? Yeah, so once it gets to five stacks, you've got a couple of seconds, then it decays down to four. So think of like Frost Armor, but it's melting. It's kind of that kind of thing. So technically speaking, I'm not sure how advanced that would be required, but because we see it already with worm gods being that kind of decaying element, I think it would be a good idea to go down that route. But I only speak in terms of Hunter. I've not used a lot of Titan or Warlock outside of Osmeomancy, which is another kind of very good build, but specifically related to Stasis. For Prismatic, it does kind of shine. There's a lot of kind of to do with Prismatic when it comes to Stasis. But yeah, I'm not certainly not disputing the fact that Stasis still needs some help here. Emptus, how are you feeling? Have you used a lot of Stasis Warlock recently? Not exclusively Stasis. Obviously the getaway artist Prismatic Warlock build does revolve around Stasis to her. It's being kind of an additional thing that will pop out whenever you go to consume your grenades. So that part of the Stasis kit is certainly seeing a lot of play, but in Prismatic. I don't think Stasis Warlock was really ever in dire need of a rework outside of maybe more global changes made to Stasis. The turrets have been one of the stronger parts of the kit. And again, I would also say that the slow into freeze mechanic has been one of the strongest subclass verbs for a very long time, even after light subclass, even after the light verbs for the new subclasses were debuted. Slow is still incredibly relevant, very powerful, useful against certain champions. More annoying champion types in particular, and also really, really great in the endgame for just causing your enemies to slow and then ultimately freeze if they're in a dust field or through the turret. It's a way to give yourself some breathing room, which is huge. It's also a way to lock down a certain spawn door or spawn location for a group of enemies to really help progress through a mechanic or an encounter. So I do think that Stasis has a lot of merits, but yeah, the Frost Armor immediate decay is a big bummer. I think the bigger problem though, and this is a newer issue, has been the Stasis Shard fireteam cap is a big problem. Especially for builds that really do lean into generating Stasis Shards. For example, my Osbyomancy build and quartz renewal grass build, we both generate a ton of Stasis Shards because we lean into that, right? Those are choices that we make with our aspects and our fragments. If we were to be in the same fireteam together, we would hit that cap of how many Stasis Shards can be generated very quickly and we'd be doing both of ourselves a disservice at that point because we're hitting that cap too much and then we would just stop spawning Stasis Shards. If you didn't know about this, this is a new change that came in with the expansion. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but this was something that was talked about. This is not like a secret thing that has happened here. Bunchy was very clear about this going into the expansion when they announced the Stasis changes, but whatever that number is, it is too low to the point where you are probably better off, especially in a fireteam of three, but definitely in a fireteam of six, having a single person run Stasis because if they again are specked in really truly two generating Stasis Shards, they're going to hit that cap or come very close to that cap all by themselves so that if a second person swaps over to Stasis, you'll be hitting that cap and then you won't be generating any shards whatsoever and shards are incredible. You can do so much through the fragments. Again, on their own, they're not too too strong, but again, they tie in beautifully with the fragments, which is a strength of the Stasis subglass is how the fragments interact with the shards. So that is my biggest gripe. If that can get reworked, if shards can become something like client-side, I don't know how they stack up when it comes to the tech and the generation of them versus the other elemental pickups. I don't know. Is it the case where if I generate a fire spray, can you guys see that or is that truly client-side? I don't know that answer. So Stasis Shards is the only one which is shared across the globe in terms of the activity that you're in. Everyone will see it. I think I don't want to definitely confirm that it is six shards, but I'm seeing six is the cap, and then you get a 10-second cooldown. That may be different for other things. It's not the same for wicked implement, which is just a two-second cooldown because that's just something that goes to you anyway. It kind of acts like the other elemental pickups, but for breaches, fire sprites, and ionic tracies, they are only for you individually. I think with the reasoning Bungie put out, they said, "Because this is shared across your fire team, that's why there's a cap on it." But I do agree with you, impetus where I think the cap is just a little bit too low. I understand with their sentiment that they don't want you to go completely crazy. Because we've seen in the past with Stasis Titans, they could do the whole get 20 shards, and there's three of them doing that. The cascade element is very real, but I think they've swung in the opposite direction a little bit too hard here. I either take that timer down from 10 seconds to 5, or take that 6 if that is the true number up to like 10 or 12. Because ultimately, it discourages multiple people running Stasis, and that should never be a concern for any element. I hear you, yes, we all remember watching the clips of the Stasis Titan trios and trials, having an absolute blast, mowing through enemies with abilities up all the time. Like, I remember that "Cami Cakes" video very vividly, okay? I'm not denying that that was not an absolute pain, but on the PvE side of things, it sucks so much. And it's not something that the average Destiny player is aware of. So, when I run into people in LG and we're all stacked up on Stasis, because there's a Stasis surge in whatever activity, I feel terrible for them, because they're probably thinking, "Hey, wait a minute, this does not feel normal. This is not how I remember this build working in the video that I watch, or when I was doing my build crafting in a different activity." And that to me, yeah, that's my big complaint right now, is you got this weird global limitation because of how Stasis shards are generated. Plus, I think Prismatic has certainly taken some of the best parts of the existing Stasis subclasses. Dude, I thought I was just about to say, of like, I tried the Lance Cat build on Stasis in on Prismatic, and as I was going through Prismatic, I was like, "Okay, facet of command for the reloading bus ruin has got my shatter increase. This purpose means that I can get…" Oh my gosh, it is, it's for Alzheimer, right, that we were just talking about. You can use facet of grace and then solitude, again, to make sure that you're getting your classability back really quickly. I don't even need to be on Stasis because of my helmet. I don't even need to be using Diamond Lance as a aspect. And I was expecting to go to Stasis and for it to feel a lot more integrated. The reality is that you can just run a Stasis Focus Prismatic kit and be doing just as good. Maybe there are some pieces that I'm missing out on maybe the highest stacks of Frost Armor going to Stasis proper versus just using a Stasis Focus Prismatic build, but I feel like I could use a little more differentiation in that front. And that's my fear, is as Prismatic it's expanded because Bungie has been very clear that they want to keep building onto Prismatic, adding in new stuff. I fear that the darkness subclasses in particular may get left behind because the best parts of their kit will be in Prismatic and Prismatic will keep getting more and more stuff to mix and match with Stasis, with the Strand stuff. It's by same fear with Strand too to an extent. I think some of that cool stuff might get left behind. I mean, maybe with like Strand Titans, if as long as Banner 4 is unique to the actual core element, it might still be an appeal there. But you know on Warlock, there's not a huge reason to keep staying on Strand outside of like, I don't know, some very specific threadling stuff, but I'm not, you know, I'm not losing sleep over my threadling build potential. On the core Strand Warlock, when I could just take Arcane Needle on Prismatic and have a range, a really great range to melee option there. So, I don't know, I want more work done for both Stasis and Strand honestly, I think the extra aspects and supers for the light stuff is misplaced. Ultimately, I want to see more attention on the abilities front for the darkness subclasses before the light stuff, but that is not the direction we seem to be going. Corey, any final thoughts from you? No, it's interesting that you pointed that out because right now, and I know we don't tend to talk about the meta for PvP or just the meta in general as we go through these episodes. But currently, you know, Hunter in PvP specifically with Prismatic is the two darkness aspects you're using. Winter Shroud plus the Freddy's Spectre, and my biggest fear is when they get inevitably tuned, which I think they've already talked about the potency, that's going to now knock on the original classes. You know, I don't pretend to use Freddy's Spectre or Winter Shroud in PvE, but it sets that precedent, it does set that dangerous precedent. The more things we add to Prismatic, they then become a little bit warped, they're a little bit lopsided in terms of balance, and then it's a knock on effect. That's just my big concern here. They have confirmed that they'll keep adding to, not adding, but the rebalance in Stasis, which is a big thumbs up from us because I think Stasis is just languished for way too long. I'm fine with the current light setup for Hunter, Arc Solo, Void is doing fine, to be honest, but for specifically Hunter Stasis. While I've said before, it's a very good subclass taken to GM's and stuff, but it just needs a little bit more. But yeah, for me, you said they're impetus, the Stasis Shard's cool down, and for me personally, I think the small rework to make it like a decaying from one stack below with Frost Armor I think would be. We've been a really good spot when it comes to that. All right, it's going to stay stuck. Let's move on to some weapons. I'm going to start off with a brief note here about Faithkeeper and Precision Rockets in general in Red Herring, because we had some people ask, you know, follow up questions about this. We've been seeing this on Twitter, so let's talk about, let's talk about Faithkeeper and Red Herring, a direct competitor and just Precision Rockets in general pros cons. Faithkeeper with Enhanced Field Prep can hold 11 rockets at base. Red Herring with Enhanced Field Prep can hold 9 rockets at base. With Frenzy active on 9 rockets of Red Herring, you're dealing 860K to hold damage. With 7 stacks of Explosive Light and Enhanced Explosive Light, and 4 Unbuff Rockets, Faithkeeper can deal a total of 986K, so, you know, pretty big difference there. But the reload speed is the same, and the rate of fire is a little bit different, you know, even outside of that, you're looking at 42.5 RPM on a Precision Frame and 50.5 RPM on an Adaptive Frame. So, when it comes down to it, yeah, Faithkeeper is fine. If you enhance Field Prep in an Enhanced Explosive Light, it's got solid total damage output over the duration of a GM or whatever it may be. And the true value comes in with, like, DPS output, and then especially when, you know, Red Herring is like direct competitor, but when we start getting outside of Red Herring with other rocket launchers that have traits, like, you know, reconstruction and allow you to be shooting off two rockets at that max, you know, RPM, whatever this 50 or 42 RPM, and that damage that they're able to put out, bolts are defaulted behind that. So, I think that the one argument that could really be made here is if you want to enhance up both of these traits, yeah, maybe the DPS isn't quite as good, the damage per shot is not quite as good, but over those 11 rockets that you're able to hold, the total damage is solid, and that's really the shake on that. I don't think that Faithkeeper will work its way into many raid environments anytime that, like, DPS is really concerned just because it's going to take you so long to get out those rockets, but it's solid for, you know, knife falls and stuff like that is absolutely serviceable and viable weapon to use. Yeah, not my knife falls, but maybe you're not. All right, let's get into our weapon breakdowns court, what weapons are we covering today? So, we've got quite a fair amount and we've kind of split it, kind of down the middle, so the weapons that will be doing larger breakdowns are Mahi's HC4, which is to avoid heavy burst, hand cannon. We've got dead Grammarie IV, which is the arc lightweight shotgun, and we've got Suspectum IVFR, which is the Stasis LFR. The weapons that we will do kind of a mini breakdown, but we're not going to do the substantial breakdowns we've done in the past. We talked about it in episode 107, our kind of new approach to these weapons and why we're not doing them. We've got controlling Vision, kinetic adaptive sidearm, we've got the Aravic MG4, which is the Stasis lightweight FNG, adverse possession, which is the arc precision scout, the Domino, the Solar Adaptive Sniper, and Truthteller, which is the void breach loaded grenade launcher. All of these are world drop weapons, and just as a quick note here in terms of how they are dropping, where they're dropping. These are not focusable, or they don't drop specifically from lost sector loot pools. You might see them in a lost sector loot pool just with it being like an engram that drops, but not from the chest itself. They do drop from any world drop sources, and they are all, of course, enhanceable. Drops are fairly frequent. We were talking about this just before we went live in terms of there's some weapons that are dropping a lot more frequently for me than others, one of which is one that we're not really breaking down. I want the other one, which is the Mahis, I keep getting controlling Vision, I don't want that. But yeah, they're fairly frequent, which is fine. With the episodes changing from the original seasonal structure, we aren't 100% sure we don't know at all, really, how or when these weapons will move into the lost sector/ foundry focusing pool. Ideally, during an episode, I think that makes the most amount of sense just with the episodes being in general a lot longer than original seasons. So like during Act 2 or during Act 3, I think if it was to be the next episode, I think that would just be a bit too long to be like, okay, we're talking about some of these weapons, but you can't specifically focus for them inside a lost sector or the gunsmith focusing. Really quick here, I've got a lot of notes here in terms of lost sector and foundry focusing, I won't cover all, but a shoutout to Commander Pika, linking the show notes for his full Twitter thread in terms of how Banshee is now focusing. The rotation pool is now focusing, so it goes from, as an example, the rotation, the first rotation is Omalon plus field forged, and then it rotates between field forged and its zeros, and its zeros and hacky, hacky then vise, then vise and Omalon. Then when it comes to the lost sector weapon rotation, it's 12 weapons, it's 4 per day, and there's 3 rotations. 8 of the weapons from last season's rotation were removed and are now in Banshee's foundry focusing, which is your foundry weapons plus your 1 per each for the original foundry. I should say 4 of the field forged weapons plus 1 each of the original foundry. I think that was one of the questions we were asking way back in season 23 is where are the field forged weapons going to go ultimately, and this seems to be the case. 4 field forged weapons plus 1 of each of the original foundry as well. Then for when it comes to the lost sector weapons rotation, which I think fairly recently this has brought up to our attention, to the wider community attention, because we aren't really sure how and where all these weapons are dropping, the original set from field forged, Suros, Nadir and Casoids. There's a list over on Commander Peaker's thread if you want to take a look at that, but it's 3 rotations and there's 4 weapons each. That's where if you want to specifically get a crux termination, you can wait till it's the Casoid rotation and go from there. But as we said, this doesn't apply to these weapons that we're going to talk about, so these are just wow drop. Hopefully we'll see this in the future, we'll see where and how the land in regards to the foundry focusing and the lost sector weapons rotation. Alright, Emptus, you want to cover our first weapon here? Not really, but I kind of have to for the purposes of the episode. This is controlling vision, this is our kinetic adaptive frame sidearm firing at 300 rounds per minute. Adaptives don't have a particular frame attribute, they're just supposed to have well rounded stats, that's their whole shtick. This is a field forged foundry weapon, that is really hard to say, so it does get the field tested origin trade where the hits and kills with the weapon grant points. And then you build those points to certain thresholds to grant stacks of field tests, which in turn grant a plethora of stats, range, reload, stability and handling. And again, there's five stacks total there, the buff is removed on death and/or orbit, so yeah, it can be quite nice, but on primary weapons, which controlling vision is one, you will take a while to get up to that final fifth stack. Unfortunately, controlling vision is not much of a PBE sidearm, it's a very fine option for the crucible, it's traits like threat detector and offhand strike and column four. But really the sole value for PBE is something like surrounded, that's in column four, but again, so is threat detector, so you can't even do a threat detector surrounded combo. We've got slideways in column three, if you were looking for something that could work reasonably well in PBE here, other than that, most of the other perks here are going to be more geared towards PBE for sure. Honestly, if we are looking for a sidearm in the top slot to use for PBE, we've got things like Michael's reverence, breach light, brand new, the buzzard, even allied demand from Iron Banner since that's going on for a bit during our episode. Those are the ones that we would all point you towards for PBE options here and we've covered some of those in previous episodes and we are going to cover the breach light in a future episode as well. So, yeah, not much to say about controlling vision, I'm sure there might be some interesting videos coming out for PBE after, especially after Iron Banner maybe wraps up, but yeah, if this drops, I would say probably use it for infusion fuel and don't really worry about it. Unless for some reason you are looking for a sidearm with Osmosis and column four, which is still crazy to me that we're getting Osmosis and column four, but that's a conversation for another time here. Anything else to add, folks, or can we move on? Offhand strike is just very silly and big-rucible. It's pretty much all I have to say about that. If you've never used that on a sidearm, just happen to come up on one of these things, give that a try because it has like, I don't know, 18.5 meters of range from the hip, which not make any sense, frankly, does not map out in my head, but it's pretty funny to see it happen in-game. Yeah, the only kind of highlight is surrounding. You can enhance this, obviously, but, you know, there's definitely other sidearms and other close-quarter weapons that you can enhance or craft to get that enhanced surrounding, so that's the only highlight that I have. All right, Court, I'll pass it to you for our next weapon here of the World Lutzat. Yeah, so this is Yaravut MG4. So I originally had this down as a weapon. We're going to kind of do a fuller breakdown, but when I actually went in and looked at the stats, I was looking at the parrot pool. I was like, "Hey, now what? This is just not quite it, to be honest." So this is our Stasis Lightweight SMG 900 RPM and reminder of the frame bonus that is intrinsic passive of +20 mobility and 6.25% forward-moving speed bonus. The origin trait here is Omalon Fluid Dynamics, which is part of the Omalon Foundry Weapons Set. So the upper 50% of the magazine has up to 20 stability and 30 reloads and these benefits decreased linearly as the magazine count approaches 50% capacity. So SMGs are not in a great spot in terms of PVE sandbox, hand cannons, and kind of ARs have kind of to cover that slot. I think they're just a little bit more capability compared to SMGs. Certainly not saying SMGs are terrible, but this one in particular, the stats are just not it. So yeah, we're not doing a full breakdown of this. Pretty bad base stats with prolonged engagement, so the Vanguard SMG from a few seasons back beats it out by 3 to 9 points in every category. Save recoil direction. This translates to about a 0.3 meter less range, 0.04 slower ADS speed and a 0.07 reload, which isn't huge, but still a disadvantage. And lane action in column 3 can crank up your reloading handling to 99 and 75 respectively. And in the fourth column, it's got quite a few decent traits, which is one of the reasons why I thought maybe we should do like a larger breakdown of this. Again, this has got surroundings, which you can enhance. It's going to be a much larger damage buff. It's got headstone. If you want to pair that with your stasis builds. Desperate measure is also here from the into the light weapons set that is now kind of dropping with some other weapons now. And we've got collective action. And so we were talking about stasis shards at the start of the episode, so I think stasis shards is definitely the best one to combine for collective action. But obviously you can you can pair with any elemental pickup, especially if you are using this with prismatic. Yeah, I certainly would say like headstone would be sort of our pick for utility play, but surrounded and. Desperate measures. We don't have many weapons with desperate measures recently, but I think we'll just save that for a future weapon. And there's just I think again, much like a controlled version. There's just better options for surrounding anyway. Terms of a quick note. I think this is from our resident controller player here dynamic sway reduction and Zen moment. Makes this a ridiculous strong combo in PvP. If you can get the range from the barrel slash mag slash masterwork. Saint, you got any further comments, sir? Yeah, it between the online fluid dynamics and, you know, the other two traits that you just mentioned. It's very likely to have very high stability and very little shake, you know, from coming from something like Zen moment and then just that increased stability and the even smaller accuracy cone size from dynamics way reduction. This archetype as a point seven three base TTK if you're hitting your crits in the principal and sometimes that's hard to do just due to the nature of the base stats that it has. So considering this weapon to offer something that directly combats that is pretty strong, I tested it out just a little bit with my old peacekeepers building that felt solid. Also use this decent amount with like a rewind headstone in PvE. I think I'd probably go like enlightened action headstone or maybe surrounded if I was in an activity where that could be very applicable, but it's fine, you know, it's entirely fine, I would say, in PvE. I just really get for that. I just realized this is an Omalon weapon. So with the Omalon fluid dynamics and rewind rounds, you could oscillate between stability and reload speed stats while holding down the trigger. That would make it wildly unpredictable. Over the course of that extended magazine, the rewind effectively grants you. That has got to feel awful. It's funny. I just don't think that I'd prefer enlightened action because it's way easier to just spam a bunch of bullets and now you've spammed a bunch of shots, here's a bunch of free handling and reload speed because that's like that's like an actual loop that I feel makes sense with this. And plus that feeds into the, you know, to your point about rewind rounds and online dynamics seems like a weird, you know, counteracting thing. Okay, well, at least if I'm using enlightened action in fluid dynamics, it's somewhat working together, right? I don't know. Yeah, and rewind, you'd be losing bullets to shattering headstone crystals if you were comboing that, so you wouldn't be getting those bullets back with the rewinds proc. Well, not a super great pairing there, but oh, well. Yeah, it's a gun. I was looking at other options with, like, surroundings as an option. We had the recluse into the lights. We talked about that a few episodes ago. We have already mentioned for longer engagement, which it's quite a difficult one to try and get with headstone or with surrounding, but it's got both of those options. It's got frenzy. It's got, like, just an absolute smorgasbord of perks that you can try and focus down and then something like unending Tempest. That is our precision option here and our solute at icloss, which is our aggressive option. So different frames for different kind of experiences, but just, again, the reason we're just not really breaking this down fully is because there's just better options out there. And in general, that SMGs are just not quite there. Like, you've got to have, like, a very good SMG. I think our workhorse icloss threat detector or perpetual motion plus vote shot is still going to be our kind of go to, despite the fact that's not, sorry, it's directly acquirable now because you can farm the surf shield, but good luck. Because all of the serif weapons drop from that. But still directly acquirable. Maybe just a little asterisk next to it. Yeah. I think I use a prolonged engagement with one for all for a bit. And it's fine. It's kind of like we were talking about earlier. SMGs have gotten power cracked a little bit in a PvE sandbox. They're just not super popular right now. Those options that have access to such strong crowd control stay on top. And that kind of utility, that ability to, like, clear out areas and damage so many enemies at once is undeniable. And that is what is going to keep them up there, despite the fact that they may be operating out of what is currently a moderately weak archetype in that sandbox. It's, you know, it can survive it. It just doesn't matter. Something like one for all is great for giving you that 35% damage buff with a weapon that's easy to spray. But even then you're not getting any kind of splash damage to the enemies around here or anything like that, which is, you know, just not ideal for, you know, primary weapons in moderate to difficult PvE activities. Kind of need either, if I'm going to be using a legendary SMG, I need either, like, strong utility or some kind of strong, you know, area damage type of effect, right? Yeah, good points. All right, next one's what we got, Saint. Yeah, this is our last one that we'll glide over for a moment and then we'll get into some really interesting kind of juice stuff stuff that we've been enjoying a lot more. We were talking about the adverse possession nine. This is a arc precision frame scout rifle, 180 RPM. It's got that new monarchy red and sigil look on it. As a reminder, that precision frame is going to give you reduced horizontal recoil. It also has a serocenergy as its origin trait after you reload for six seconds to get 40 handling and 20 flinch resistance, which, you know, again, that is quite strong for the crucible. I feel like, you know, a serocenergy is always been a, you know, kind of just passive in the background trait that people will gravitate towards on weapons like this, especially the precision hits on. But when we were looking on the PVE side, the best thing that you've got here is, you know, probably something like overflow and frenzy, which I think says a lot out the gate. We just don't really have a ton of strong traits in either column, other options in column three. I don't know, elemental capacitor and Eddy current. Those are both could up your reload speed threat detector and compulsive reloader and discord. I just don't see a ton of value from, you know, on a weapon like this, maybe compulsive reloader could have more value for synergizing with serocenergy and the crucible. But, you know, it just doesn't really happen on this weapon, because again, in that fourth column, you know, you have a lot of stuff like heating up high impact reserves, well spring, keep away with frenzy, really being your only strong option there. It's going to struggle pretty bad to compete with other scout options like tarnish metal. It's a bit hard to come by, but it has, you know, shoot to loot demo and rapid it in the third column, which can be paired with explosive payload and volt shot in the final column. And, you know, we also have long arm, which is terms by other watcher, you know, it's got subsistence, explosive payload, dragonfly, some other stuff like that, which can kind of negate that frame is really weak points. We talked about that a bunch of last episode, you know, maybe if aggressive, get a chunk of a buff that could be pretty interesting, you know, just plays there, whatever traits may befall your aggressive scout rifles, but it's, it's just not a super strong option. I would say this is fine if you, if you feel like you need an arc scout rifle for a specific scenario where you're going to be breaking our shields and need an unstopped primary weapon. But I would pretty much only be using it until you get a tarnished metal roll or, you know, maybe aggressive scouts get a buff and long arm pops back up into the scene. On the PVP side, you can get a, like, .67 TTK, which is really solid when you got frenzy up, but again, you know, it's not just like a super strong offering in PVE. I would not say, Lance, any other comments to add on adverse possession here? I can't remember exactly where tarnished metal comes from these days to either of you remember where you can get that old seasonal weapon to drop? Banchierzer? Yeah, you got, so you got to get lucky. Yes, I mean, the adverse might be the most obtainable arc scout rifle with an origin trait right now, which is kind of crazy to say. So, the plunder weapons are the only weapons set that weren't tied to, like, an exotic quest. Oh, yeah, like, I see her shield got all the weapons from that season. So, yeah, basically, .Zur or Gunsmith, the rest of that annual experience, they were all tied to, like, the exotic missions. Well, at least it's easier to just buy random weapons from Zur now. You can go, what is it, like, seven-strange coin to pull a random weapon? Something like that? Yeah, random weapon from how big is that pull? Oh, don't worry about that one, brother. You don't want to think about that. No, that's a dark place. We don't go there. Same. You can get, like, season one and two weapons to drop from that. The number of timelines, vertex that you get from Zur may vary. I'm not going to make any guarantees on how many fusion rifles that you've never heard the name of before. Same. I'm getting tested one weapon stroke from that. Shut up. Oops, all hung juries. All right, so we've gone over a several weapons here. We've kind of just covered quickly that, you know, maybe you aren't super strong in the PvE sandbox. But now we got a couple pretty juiced items here. What is our next weapon that we're pretty keen on? This one is pronounced Mahi's HC4. This is a heavy burst hand cannon, void heavy burst hand cannon. Also an Omelon weapon as well, so it does come with the Omelon fluid dynamics origin trait. And that's going to be actually very relevant here because if you look at the stat package for Mahi's and you compare it to the two other heavy burst hand cannons that we currently have in the game, warden's law dropping from nightfalls and bolt endings, which we just covered recently, dropping from the pale heart and craftable. The stats for Mahi's are poor. There's just no nice way to say it. The stability in particular is at 21. There's a pretty big margin. Warden's law is the next highest at 29 and then bolt endings at base has 32. So there's an 11 point difference here between the three heavy burst when it comes to stability. And stability in general is something that you kind of want to control for, especially on controller for this archetype. So be aware of that. However, we do have Omelon fluid dynamics, upper 50% of the magazine has 20 up to 20 stability and 30 reloads. So when you start, you're actually starting at about 41 stability and a much higher reload speed here. That base is 25. So yeah, you're sitting at about 50 when that gets going 55 and 41 respectively for reload speed and stability. That's at the start with a full magazine and then it decreases, of course, as you fire. So don't freak out too much that the stat package is so low. Because again, Omelon is going to be boosting stability and reload speed for most of your engagements, assuming that you're starting most of your engagements with a full magazine here. Handling, though, quite low as well. On the range side, again, at base, we're looking at about 31 and a half meters when you're ADSing just under 21 meters when you're hip firing. That is very, very competitive for hand cannons as far as a range band does go. Reload speed is going to be another thing we're going to want to work on here. That is 3.04 seconds to reload your gun at base here. However, Mahis does have fantastic perks in Calm 3 to really help out with all the stats that I've just brought up here. So we don't have to worry too much. I've been very blessed. This is the world loot weapon that has dropped repeatedly for me this episode. There's always one new world loot weapon that drops over and over again. I've been very lucky here, so I've gotten to play with quite a few of the different perks here. I just haven't gotten the combination that I'm chasing. Looking in Calm 3, we have unrelenting. Great option, especially in Calm 3. Enlightened action, repulsor brace, and rapid hit and perpetual motion here. So my current rule that I am using is a rapid hit weapon. Rapid hit is wonderful on this. The gun does feel incredible once you get to those later stacks there. Especially because it's the double fire. Each of the bullets will contribute to an individual stack of rapid hits. So you can get to that 5th stack quite quickly in the magazine by firing this. And you can also, in terms of time, get to that 5th stack quite quickly because it does fire at about 257 rounds per minute here. So this is a very nice feeling hand cannon with rapid hit. You could also do perpetual motion. That was my first ever drop of that. It was fine. I'll talk about why I wasn't too thrilled with perpetual motion. And then enlightened action. Again, my big issue with enlightened action is while it's a great perk, it does not appear on your hood. So it's very hard to know how many stacks you have of enlightened action. You can certainly tell when you get to the higher stacks, I knew that I was proccing enlightened action on Mahis quite frequently. But again, just having that visual information would have been quite nice. But yeah, that's another great option there to get to a good bit of reload and handling. Make it feel a bit snappier. I will just say on the M&K perspective, stability was not too much of a concern for me, but I think for controller players with the heavy bursts, we've said this with the previous two weapons, you are going to want to be mindful of boosting that stability. So barrels and mags, I think that would be a big priority for me. I think the flared magwell and fluted barrel combo would probably be the best all-around recommendation just for touching up stability, handling and reload speed respectively. If you wanted to go tack mag instead of flared again, that's kind of my number one preference as far as calm two perks. I think that's a good option as well. But I wouldn't stress reload so much over stability and handling because there are some excellent perks to help out with reload speed. And of course, the best one to help out with reload speed actually sits in calm four. We do have frenzy on this. So my first role was perpetual motion frenzy, which perpetual motion does get overshadowed pretty quickly once frenzy takes over. You're only getting the stability bump at that point and I didn't need the stability bump from perpetual motion. I think my ideal role here would be like a repulsor brace frenzy or an unrelenting frenzy. But again, you do have destabilizing rounds in calm four. You've got golden tricorn and swashbuckler as well. The current role that I do have is rapid hit destabilizing rounds. It's a great weapon. I've been using it in GMs for overload champions. It's just fine. Really great to stun champions quickly. And again, that nice range band is also very helpful. You can sit pretty far back and let that 31 almost 32 meters before damage fall off start really put in some work when you're aiming down sites here. And of course, aiming down sites is part of the frame benefit, right? Slightly reduces the flinch from or reduces incoming fire flinch when you are aiming. So that is very, very nice when we are ADS in here. So again, my role that I'm chasing would probably be repulsor frenzy just for some void synergy, but I would love an unrelenting frenzy as well. Court, is there anything in here that you're chasing that I haven't brought up or anything you want to echo or add on to? No, I think you've hit the nail there. I think some really solid perks here. And yeah, if you've got the same luck as impetus getting some really good quality rules, then yeah, this is a very strong option. Nice CD destabilizing rounds. I know we've talked about this maybe last episode we talked about. It's a lot more consistent now if you want a kind of utility weapon, which will appear quite nicely with if you can get repulsor brace. But yeah, there's some really great options to call them through your rapid hit or perpetual motion. And then you've got frenzy in the fourth column, golden tricorn. I think I'm still a big stand off golden tricorn. So if you're in that void mono build or if you're on prismatic with, I think it's supposed to be. It's not currently working as the time as of the time of this podcast, but it should be related to your your grenade ability or grenade or melee ability, but it's currently a chin to your your super. Or it's the inverse of that. I can't remember what they say. You have it right. It's currently matching your super, but that's a bug and we'll get changed. It should be the abilities that need to match. So yeah, it'd be a lot kind of easier to bring this into a prismatic build if you've got some good options here with with void. But yeah, no solid option. Warden's law is still accessible and we'll talk about that because it did get a small refresh. We'll talk about that in the future. That's obviously still where to be your go to if you're a hunter with lucky pants, that fourth times the charm, verbal weapon. That is your your your big kind of kind of pseudo primary DPS option. But this is your kind of kind of workhorse. And yeah, until you've done a great kind of roundup of that is saying you've got any comments actually saying how have you fired this on controller? How do heavy bars feel? I think I've talked about this with I asked you with bull dandings. How does this feel specifically for you? Yeah, I've been using this quite a bit this past week. And sometimes getting gameplay footage and testing our various weapons is kind of a chore. Let me tell you, it ain't so bad when the weapon that you're testing is really solid void hand cannon. And I would this is first time I spent a significant amount of time since final shape launched with disabling rounds. And it really does feel better with the most recent update that it got. And I think, you know, like the synergy of repulsor brace and destabilizing around sounds really good. But given that the base that's this weapon, just, you know, they kind of need a little boost and you can get stability handling and reload speed all up to right around 40 with that fluted flared combo that I'm just talking about right. It's pretty solid. But given that that is the case, I'd probably want to go with something like repulsor and frenzy. If I'm going to be using this on a Drew Falcons build because that gets getting your reload speed all the way maxed 100 it's all the way down at like 1.83 seconds. And then destabilizing rounds is pretty solid with any of the enlightened action, the rapid hits and perpetual motion. I will say, well, enlightened action is super easy and you're getting a lot of stacks. You get three stacks per shot with a hand cannon. You know, a few bursts and you're getting it up to its max benefit, which is plus 50 to handling and reload huge benefits. Perpetual motion is only plus 20, but you're getting that plus 22 stability as well as handling and reload speed. So it's total plus 60 stats instead of plus 100. But if you have that perpetual motion times two up, which is really easy, you're just running around the map. Now your stability handling and reload are all up at 60 at base, which has felt pretty good with something like destabilizing rounds. And then yeah, rapid hit, absolute classic is going to crank that stability also way, I believe past 60 at that point. So it's great for a worldly weapon like this that has so many, you know, it's got several strong traits in both columns. So even if you finally get a repulsor base roll, well, you know, it doesn't have frenzy, but it's got golden tricorn. So who cares? You know, so you're still getting great damage buffs and you could get, you know, rapid hit to stabilizing perpetual motion, disabling even, you know, something that's going to become redundant. Like you have a frenzy and you also get a stat bump in the left column through something like rapid hit or enlightened action. Yeah, you know, it's not super ideal, but at the same time you end up in a situation where you have, you have increased reload speed constantly, even when frenzy is not up. So even that, even when they double up on each other, it's not the worst thing, right? Yeah, really solid weapon, feels good even in nightfall content. You know, I've used it in one GM and then circle just regular nightfall runs and just all kinds of PVE content and it's solid, man. The heavy burst are really in a solid place, Hankins in general, but these guys kind of fit nicely into that pack there. Yeah, and I think go ahead court. I was just going to quickly point out in terms of subclass synergy. You already mentioned chair falcon for hunters. I was looking at titans for void control demo with destabilizing rounds that will proc that 90 HP for the user and allies within 40 meters, which is, you know, it's a large radius. So if you're wanting like a pseudo precious scars kind of builds, get that destabilizing rounds up all the time, and that's a nice little synergy with control demo. Sorry, what are you saying there? To build off of what Saint said, the heavy burst hand cannons are one of the top archetypes for hand cannons. When we think about total damage and then DPS as well, DPS even within like a single mag, I believe it's the precision. The precision's are still just a little bit ahead, but heavy bursts are like right there, kind of as the solid number two. And there's a good, I think, distance between the next between third place for thinking about it like that. So knowing that and also looking at our void precision frame hand cannons, the top one, of course, being word of Kroto, which is a raid weapon. I think Mahes is probably the better one to get. Again, not everyone is getting as many Mahes to drop as I am. Sorry for your luck. I am just built differently, but I do think this one will probably play out a little bit differently for you just because it has an increased range stat and longer further damage falloff point. I don't know how to word that grammatically correct, but solid purple plus a longer range, and I think it would probably be a bit easier to acquire than a raid weapon. So, yeah, this is definitely a priority. I would go so far to say the number one priority out of this world loot set here to keep your eyes out for it. Because again, you have no way to focus for this currently. Yeah, word of Kroto has got that really silly double explosion roll, which... And it's fun being a fan of. Yeah, it is very fun. Hey, what's next? Sick of explosions. Yeah, we've got Dead Grammarie 4, aka The Dead Game. This is a arc lightweight shotgun, 80 RPM. It's going to give that intrinsic plus 20 mobility and 6.25% for movement speed. This is a castoid foundry weapon, so it's got the wild card origin trait, which generates those little telesto bolts, whatever element, in this case arc on the ground whenever you get a kill. Minor enemies, leave one, elites three, and many boss bosses, champions will leave seven, which is pretty funny when somebody gets a final kill on a strike boss. And you see just kimpedi rain out everywhere from there, rocket launcher, but wild card, what a fun trait. And another thing that we want to make sure that we mention about wild card is that similar to other, some other weapon effects and things like that, wild card bolts that it generates. Inherent the weapons combatant damage scaling, which let me tell you, pretty good on a shotgun here. It's going to be really solid. It may not be getting a ton of defeats with those bolts, but if you do have a wave of enemies come out and you kill a few of them with a shotgun and then another wave comes out, they will take serious damage from the little one to three bolts that happens to be left on the ground from where you hit them previously. So comparing it with something like a sword breaker or a reese walker, they're going to have around five meters a range, about three quarters or two thirds of a second to reload a shell, and this thing does not have good stats. You just just compared to some of the other lightweight shotguns that you're probably seeing around in the game right now, it is pretty much lowest in all the categories, but there's a reason that we are still talking about this thing. And that is because the fourth column has got two traits that one that is never showed up in a shotgun and one that is, I believe the first time we've ever seen on a pellet shotgun once before on a slug shotgun. Those traits are chain reaction involved shot. So really just kind of goofy stuff going on here with this weapon. Whenever we are looking at chain reaction involved shot and thinking, okay, well, that sounds pretty damn fun. I'd like to explore some things with my shotgun. What can we can we put in the supporting cast here for, you know, a third column treat, you know, barrel mag and masterwork to support these things. If you are going to be using chain reaction and using this shotgun in general, you're going to be up close. And if you're going to be close, you're going to be capitalizing on treats like threat detector at two stacks, which is going to be pretty easy to hit, you know, you're in PVE just running around environments. You get in plus 40 stability plus 100 handling plus 55 reload speed, a 0.1x handling duration multiplier, incredibly strong trait, even in PVE, often cited on PVP shotgun rolls, still really strong here. If you're looking to capitalize on a volt shot roll, you know, probably something dare I say, Eddie current has has pumped itself up with its amplified state being a 60 every load bump and a about a 5% decrease, you know, 0.95 scalar and regular version being about a plus 20 reload. So, you know, fine threat detector, probably a little more consistent still, but any current, I would say, is finally a viable trait to combo with something like a little shot on this weapon. And then looking at our base stats, you know, things that we want to pump up, if we have threat detector up, that's, you know, it's going to be doing a lot for us. You could go in a little bit on range, even going up 10 points of range is going to put you about 6%, you know, effective distance that is putting you up from, you know, right at 5 meters to like 5 and a quarter meters. Not crazy. I'm much more keen on something like assault mag in that column is going to be giving us plus 10 RPM and a little stability, not too concerned on that. Barrels, I, you know, again, am not too picky unless it is smoothboard. Do not want smoothboard. I'm also not very keen on rifle barrel because it makes a big handling negation of 15 points and smoothboard is going to increase your spread by 7.5%, which I'm also just, you know, try to avoid that if you can. Any other option here, you know, your small bore barrel shroud, course through all going to be fine. Full choke for the pellet spread, small decrease on precision damage by about 7%, but not a huge worry there. And then finally, for the masterwork, you know, I probably just go reload or something like that to make sure that I'm going to have a high reload speed all the time, even when I'm only at a threat detector times one or something like that, just to just to pump that all the way up there. I don't even know what to put on the mod. Yeah, a weird one. I am pretty jealous because I've not gotten a chain reaction roll of this weapon to drop yet, but I believe one of you two has. What are your thoughts there? It's great if you are a big fan of flashing lights and raves because let me tell you, I haven't chained a reaction detonate right in front of your eyes, right at the end of the barrel can be, it can be a little bit much, but it's very fun to just pop an enemy. Because it's a shotgun, like shotguns are quite strong in PvE. You don't really need to worry about things like hitting your pellets when people talk about shotguns and crucible. It's not really a concern that translates over to PvE, so you just walk up to an enemy, pop them and they blow up and that can be a lot of fun. I think it would be to your detriment as a player to try and get, you know, multi kills with this to the same extent as, you know, we used to with weight frame grenade launchers and chain reaction. Like, this to me does feel like something that's just very fun. I don't know if we can build off it to be super lethal, but, you know, maybe, maybe I'm just not brave enough. Maybe I'm not worthy of my chain reaction dead-grain-emory roll, but yeah, I do. I got a discord chain reaction one to drop the other day. And I haven't, again, I haven't tried to like get discord proct and also try to use chain reaction super effectively, but it's certainly a fun roll. I think that it could be very powerful in the right hands. Again, it may not be that I'm the right hands for it. I will totally own up to that. I do also feel that chain reaction plus wild card is not quite as useful a combination because of chain reaction. If you're in a situation where chain reactions, explosion doesn't fully kill the enemy. Yes, wild card could help and kill them, but I think you'd also probably just blast them a second time with the shotgun at that point. Like, the RPMs there, if you've got the ammo, I don't think anyone's really waiting around for the wild card bolts to kill them. It sounds more like a situation where you'd want the wild card bolts to be in there for like a heavier target to get finished off or something, but, yeah, I don't, again, I need to play with it more. It's certainly a lot of fun to just shoot your shotgun and then have the enemy blow up after they die. It feels incredible. But I don't know what I'd want in like, Calm 3. I was kind of wondering, maybe, Slit Draw if that was the play there just for the handling. Because again, you don't really think about pellet spread too much. I'm getting close enough to the enemy to kill him in PvE. It's not like there's a resilient threshold that I need to hit with an acolyte energy in so much. It's like the damage of the pellets do matter to an extent, but I'm always going to get within 5 meters of them. And I'm probably going to aim for the center mass. So does the passive 100 handling, is that enough for me? Because again, I don't think that reload speed is super terrible. It is just a weapon that I would use to swap to blow an enemy up when I fire my shotgun shells and swap back to something else and go about my day. I don't know. I have not gotten a lot of rules of these, so, yeah, I'm not sure. The threat detector chain reaction is just kind of like looking at the perk pool. That's the combo I'd want for the extra stat bumps when I get close to enemies. But to make chain reaction actually worthwhile, as opposed to using a grenade launcher with it, I don't know. I don't know. I need to play with it more. Maybe I just need to find a more aggressive playstyle. You know, I didn't even think about Discord, but if you're in a, let's say you happen to use a certain rocket sidearm in your top slot, and you're using a double special build, hitting that, you know, getting one kill and swapping over to like Discord chain reaction, it's, you know, it's possible that you could just mow through a group of enemies for seven seconds, just exploding everything, costing yourself like almost no ammo, right? I, I don't know. That's, yeah, the potential is there. Yeah, I'm certainly not going to get rid of my Discord chain reaction role, but it's just, yeah. So it's, it's something that requires a bit of setup, and I'm not, I'm not at a point yet where I'm like, okay, I don't want to really invest in this and see, but I definitely would, I have the shotgun on my Titan and I want to, I want to play around with a little run gun, slide and shoot, explode kind of a thing, but the fun potential is definitely there. If you are somebody who goes after weapons for the fun potential, yeah, chain reaction on a shotgun is schmooven. So our other option with volt shot on a shotgun is gonna order as axe, which is the pinpoint slug frame. That's the only other shotgun. So yeah, this is our first pellet shotgun. Two notes about chain reaction. So when you enhance chain reaction, it adds to your inventory size stat, which is, it's not quite the level as field prep, but it is, it does prove a little bit. I'm just looking at Mossy's big database here, and it's generally plus one or plus two extra shots in, in the reserves, I should say. So that, I mean, that's just such a, like, a passive effect. And when you've got more reserves, you can pick up more ammo. And the other thing, which you mentioned just at the top of this weapon breakdown is related to the, the outgoing damage. Now that also applies to chain reaction. Shotguns, excluding heavy weapons, just because, like, they naturally have kind of big outside of swords, they naturally have a large scaler when it comes to combat and damage. Shotguns are joint seconds in general with special grenade launchers. Special grenade launchers, you know, you're only ever gonna get one and then ham to reload. Rarely do you get two or three if you've got perks that can proc that. The other one is Glaive at the top here, which just applies to the, the shot. So shotguns in general are kind of up there when it comes to damage scaler for combatants, and that will apply to the Flistables, and it will apply to chain reaction. Very good to take this into kind of an ad-dense activity. And it's, you know, we finally do see, like, a kind of shotgun that can play into that. So yeah, I would definitely be trying to pick up a chain reaction role. Vault Shot's still a, you know, very good one. Maybe a little bit, you know, it's not as, as fluid as, say, like a primary weapon, but, you know, Vault Shot's still a very potent elemental effect. I use that on a lot of weapons, but it's nice to see this on a pellet shotgun. And yeah, you all have, you've highlighted the other, the other options here. This is a very strong shotgun. And I think specifically for titans who are kind of, you know, in the thick of it, this is like a good classic. Maybe not necessarily like swordbreaker when you've got the whole strand DPS situation, but this one's just for like a war course weapon. So it's all going to be great actually on Stasis Hunter, right? Your dust field build. Yeah, that's true. Yep. You mentioned slick draw and I think that the, another thing that I would be remiss if I didn't mention is there are people out there that are still hitting shotgun swaps, aggressive shotgun swapping and lightweight shotgun swapping is still, I think, seen occasionally in DBS rotations. And something like slick draw, Vorpal, is pretty strong as far as stuff like that goes. Now you can, you know, you have so many shots, but that passive 100 handling allows you to have two shotguns and rotation shooting faster. You know, then you should be able to basically circumventing RPM by hitting those, those quick swaps and hitting shot after shot with a passive, like a tractor cannon or something like that. If you're maybe the support player in your team and then just go and double shotgun because you are absolute maniac. Yeah. It's the reswalker role actually. So with reswalker being in the connect slot, you could have a reswalker dead or dead gramory tractor set up for swapping the lower. Okay. Enough about explosions, the shotgun. We have a couple other special weapons here, but we, we won't be spending a ton of time on these, I wouldn't say. Yeah. So next is our court. Yeah. Yeah. It's the domino. It's our solar adaptive sniper rifle that's 90 RPM. There's no frame bonus when it comes to adaptive. I, yeah. So this is our origin trait with the, it's gotten a deer focus. So that's part of the near future weapons set. Firing this weapon grants a stack of knee deer focus for two seconds. That's a max of five stacks and the deer focus grants you the following buffs. Higher stacks equals a larger bonus. So increased range and decreased accuracy cone size. Very much a PvP perk. Yeah. Not quite sure what to place this one. Where does it fill what role in which sandbox? I suppose shoot to loot and incandescent is a fun combo to use in PvE, but it doesn't really make much sense to use on a sniper. Over in the PvP sandbox, you've got opening shot for that classic PvP role, but not much else to be really paired with in column three. There's just better stats and traits to be found on News of Me and in Braced Identity, which are both readily available. Yeah, I think that's pretty much it when it comes to this sniper. I saw it when it dropped and I didn't look at the loot pool beforehand. I was thinking, "Oh, great. We've got another potential option for like a succession build." I didn't realize it was like, "Mm, this is not great for any kind of PvE build, unfortunately." Saint, you got any other comments? Yeah, no, I'm not going to say much. In Braced Identity just got added to the game. Zume is there. There are many older options when it comes to adaptive frame snipers that have solid treats and stuff like that. They're in kind of a middling spot in PvE with rapid fires really being the highlight for DPS output and stuff like that, so yeah, it's kind of a strange weapon. If you're coming back to the game and the final shape and you haven't played a ton and you're trying to get back into sniping despite what has happened to the flinch game, I would say maybe there's an opening shot role in there for you, but other than that, I'm not really sure. I think you're just talking about Discord and maybe you think that something like, "Oh, maybe Discord incandescent would be funny," is like a sniper combo where you can spam bullets and not really worry about the ammo economy, but yeah, I don't really know. There's just not a ton there. Well, it's a good thing that our next weapon brings so much to the table because that would have been a really awkward follow-up, right guys. Dude, who put this in Comic Sans right now? Just tell me. I'm not mad. I'm mad. That was a 100% word. You know, I'm a Helvetica boy through and through. Truth's over turn. This was a world loot weapon when I first started playing the game, all the way back on Season of Rivals, and I wish it stayed back in Season of Rivals because it sure sounds like the perk pool did, but yeah, this is now a field tested or a field forged foundry weapon, and boy, this is bad. So avoid a lightweight frame breach loaded grenade launcher if you don't know what truthteller is. We have not had, I mean, this has been the new one since the original truthteller. We've not had any others, so it has been a minute since we've gotten one might as well refresh the oldie and yeah, it's not good when the oldie has better perks than the new version, and that is unfortunately the case here. Mostly because they got rid of auto loading holster, which yes, it is definitely probably far and away. The number one perk you look for in Calm 3 on, you know, special grenade launcher, really any grenade launcher when you think about it, that reconstruction also not on this version. Instead we have Feeding Frenzy, which was the other thing that people were mad they got on the old version instead of auto loading. Well, that's now our best option or enlightened action or stats for all or grave robber. It also returns for some reason on this version, and that's about it in Calm 3. Calm 4 we've got disruption break. Again, that was part of the original God role on the original role. We've got repulsor brace, collective action. Calm 4 threat detector, we love to see that and then danger zone, and that's about it. Yeah, if you want to try and pair some of combination of Calm 3 and Calm 4 together, you're not going to beat the original. The original was a blinding, now disorienting grenades or spiker nades with auto loading and disruption break. I know Banshee has sold that combination at some point in the past years since, you know, the OG truth teller was sunset and now sun risen. So seriously, if you pick that up, that role is viable in all forms of PvE content. Now keep using that because this new thing is not going to do you much more. If you are hell bent on having an up-to-date one with an origin trait, disorienting grenades plus stats for all since it's just hitting targets plus danger zone, plus disruption break. I mean, I'm seriously, that's what you got, but again, you can't focus for this weapon, so don't bother. Like don't let this weapon take up any space in your head if that combination were to drop for you, try it out, see how you feel, I will be sharding it regardless. This is not something that I want to chase. Co-hosts, how are we feeling? Am I wrong? Is there anything we're salvaging on this? So I was looking at my dem thinking, have I got any of these? And then I saw three void grenade launchers, like, oh no, but then when I clicked on it, it's harsh language. I was like, phew. Okay. Just because it's got like the same silhouette, I was like, oh no, that's why am I keeping this? Yeah, like this is just no, no, I mean, grave robber has returned, and I suppose the last time this had grave robber, it didn't have the slight buff to it that it had a few updates ago, we're dealing damage with a charge melee, which will also include your parod melee. As I'm thinking, like another Stasis Hunter build, if you've got multi-melies that are kind of ranging, you can send that out and you get that magazine refill from reserves. But that's a costly, that's a lot of the cost being sunk into just reloading this weapon, which has very little going for it and calm for anyway. So like the options there, if you have a kind of melee, you've got your melee's being recharged at a very high rate thinking of Prismatic, but again, it's just not, it's not there, to be honest. Yeah, I'm very surprised to see grave robber stay and unloading holster leave. I mean, you know, disruption break is very strong. Danger zone's kind of fun to just be exploding things close range and have a huge like 40% reduction in self damage. I think I believe that the one version of this that I used just to, just to give it a chance was enlightened action and collective action. I don't know what the stacks are that I'm gaining from enlightened action, kind of like maybe this is talking about earlier. I really wish we could see that showing up on the screen because similar to hand cannons are getting three stacks per hit, I feel like I'm getting three to five stacks per hit with my grenade launcher here, which is great. Because if it's five stacks a hit, then that's like 20 reload speed plus hit. And if you have a, you know, a decent, you know, whatever masterwork or something like that, then that could put you up to 100 reload speed per hit. If you shoot and then reload and shoot and then reload every time like that, but it's still not the flow of like shooting and stowing and then being able to continuously deal damage with another weapon. And yeah, I don't know. It just seems odd to see it brought back like this with the removal of some traits. And then, you know, yeah, it loses like pulse monitor, right? And fuel prep or yeah, but then we retain some other ones and I don't know, elemental capacitor being in that column, along with a moving target, it just seems really strange. Who's looking down sites with this thing? What's going on? What do you know that I do not I don't know about that one with maybe a elemental capacitor to crank your handling up to 100 and use disruption break to like blint somebody in the crucible with your, you know, rose or something like that. But outside of that, I don't know what's going on here. The hilarious thing is truth teller was not the only void breach loaded grenade launcher that debuted in season of arrivals. We also had or wings mall from iron banner that has an almost identical purple to the original truth teller. So I guess that's our hope now. We just have to wait for or wings mall to show up in iron banner and hopefully the refresh perks with that. That'll be the new the new void light weight frame grenade launcher that we all shake that on a loading holster to stabilizing rounds, right, please, please, yeah, crazy time for expansions between this refresh and the original version of truth teller, which is still quite viable. So and the original or wings mall. So yeah, that's our that's our hate fest on truth teller. Let's let's end it on a high note court. What are we talking about next? Yes. This is suspect him for F.R. It's our stasis precision LFR. That's the single firing frame precision gives you that intrinsic reduce horizontal recoil. And this comes with vice stinger, which is part of the best foundry weapons set hits have a chance to activate by stinger for seven seconds, which grants the following refills 25% of your magazine from reserves. And it decreases the ads movement speed penalty by 10%. So that's just faster strafing, well, ADS, the chance is based on weapon type and specifically for LFRs, it's 10%. Now, vice stinger used to be the go to way back in the day when origin traits were kind of settling into the sandbox. It's been it's been nerfed. It's not as potent, but it's still good to have to have it just proc. It's nice to have that come up. It's four second cooldown between each activations. So we're going to pair this with reese regret, which is it's older sibling, which is part of the legacy trial. So it's no longer dropping actively. And then type in for F.R, which is a craftable world drop, and that's the void version. So just going to be looking at handling and reload here. So handling is for suspect him versus reads versus type and it's 27 versus 31 versus 36. So type and is up there and reload of 25 versus 20 versus 29. So it's very close when it comes to your kind of ready and ADS and store speed. Looking at suspect him, it's 0.46 seconds ready, 0.37 seconds ADS and 0.37 seconds store and it'll be slightly faster for the other LFRs. More importantly, we're looking at magazine. So we're just going to pair this with reed's type and it's not included here, just with how many deviations do to feel for it. So at base, it's five versus five. But when you get enhanced, reeds will have a higher magazine count of six versus suspect comes five backup mag. The equalize of six versus six and I's six versus six. When you combine backup mag plus enhanced though, it goes to reads again, who is up to seven versus suspect him six and then I and I's plus backup mag is seven versus seven reserves versus the three here, very close. Basically, reads has a better inventory size stat here in general. So it's 20 versus 21 versus 20 and then it kind of follows that equalizes it one reserve then it goes back up to 24 versus 23 to and then 24 at three. So it's very close in terms of stats in terms of your magazine reserves count. So suspect him is beat out by his older voice sibling, but is our newest stasis precision LFR since reads, which again is no longer in the quote active loop pool outside of legacy focusing, not including fire and forget, which is our aggressive, that's your three bursts from sorry, adapted burst, which is our three burst from serif, what if serif weapons would be kind of pairing with some of these weapons in terms of the pair so so I mean, it's not necessarily a huge DPS option, there's some really good kind of combos here, the ones that I'm seeing specifically I see envious assassin column three, you could try and pair that with fourth times a charm, that will give you your kind of deep reserves deep, you know, you're going to hit the the magazine count of zero if you try and do that. The only problem there is you don't have a damage perk, we do have one in particular, we have your kind of group play with fire in line and column four, being within 50 meters of two eyes, grants 20% increased precision damage, we also got precision instrument, which is kind of the whole deal with LFR, so you want to hit those positions, hitting body damage on precision is very bad, you're going to do very little damage, but precision, you get that stack precision instrument for 1.25 seconds, the maximum of six goes up from four, around about 4% up to 25% and if you can maintain that with envious assassin, you've got a solid kind of damage build here, utility perks, we do have headstone and column three, and we also have chill clip and column four, so if you fancy if you've got something more kind of bulky, more of a damage set up with your special or your priority weapon somewhere else, you could use this as a kind of utility weapon in thinking GMs, thinking with champions, thinking with synergy with headstone, with your stasis subclass, chill clip will interact quite nicely with the Envis overflow, sorry overflow, because you get those extra chill clip shots, it doesn't count towards your base magazine, so that upper third or how much extra bullets that you got from envious will contribute, so you'll have many chill clips shots, I'm not pretending to say that chill clip is a damage perk, it's not for damage, but it is there for your synergy with overload or unstoppable champion stunning, and then synergising with the rest of your stasis or even prismatic subclass here, and well, before I pass it over to these lads to talk about kind of other options, I will just quickly point out that the charge time masterwork does reduce the damage, a small amount, so this was changed way back, a couple of seasons ago for fusion rifles, but for LFRs that's not the case, you still have that slight reduction, and to give you, so it's around about a 4% reduction at full mass work, but it does give you that 6% reduction to charge time, meaning 6% faster, so just as a very quick comparison, it goes from for your critical headshot, just thinking this in a vacuum here, it's around about 56,000 for the crit, and then that goes down to just below 54,000 when you have that extra charge time, when you've got the charge time masterworked fully, so there's a little bit of a dip to the damage, so you'd ideally want to go into something like handling, if you get something like reload, that's fine, but handling's your best bet, and I would certainly recommend that with your barrel and battery options as well, Saint, any other kind of avenues that I've maybe not touched upon for LFR? I used a chill clip role, I got an enlightened action chill clip role, which is not ideal, but I found that I was getting chill clip on the top three shots in the mag, rather than just the first two, the way that it's just the routing works on the base mag there, and it's enough to stun, freeze, and then a third one to shatter and slow again whenever you're dealing with an overload champ, and yeah, LFRs, if you go look at any kind of damage output testing, or you go look at rock and mix, the sheet, the damage calculator, LFRs are not in a great spot right now when it comes to damage output, that's just the reality of the situation, but it's not bad for a utility weapon, whenever you are looking to cover all three champ types in a GM or some situation like that, if you, like, in this game, the Warden GM this week, if you want to have a really safe bet loadout, you're going into like an LFG type of scenario, and you want to make sure that you're covering all three elements just with your weapons, it stands abilities, or, you know, having constant uptime on that, pretty easy to take a, you know, chill clip LFR here in your heavy slot, it's not the best boss damage, but that boss is pretty weak anyways, you could put something like Barry Bloodline in your energy slot for, you know, high uptime, solid damage dealing, good utility into power, and then throw the kinetic pull serve of your choice in the top slot, and, you know, now you've got effectively all of your damage types covered, and you're not sacrificing a ton, obviously it's be pretty significantly better to have something, you know, rocket launcher, grenade launcher, so they like that in your heavy slot for a bunch of damage output, but yeah, when it comes to a utility play, this thing is pretty solid, and I'm happy to see it show up on another one after fire and forget it was so long ago now, I would love to get something like, envious on here and just have, I don't know, like, whatever, 16 shots total, and, you know, 14 of those being chill clip shots, which, so in that case, I probably wouldn't want something about my base max size, you know, I just want to go for envious, and I just load as many as I can on top of that, but yeah, fire forget also gets headstone and column three and chill clip and column four, but that is our adaptive burst frame, if you're not too keen on, you know, pulling the trigger and acts like a pulse rifle, you fire three shots, it could be difficult to try and land to get that headstone, or at least you might be wasting two of those shots within the burst, but yeah, and I believe that when the slow sex are distributed over the burst, because it won't freeze in one shot or one burst, so to say. Yeah, yeah, fire and forget also gets ambushed as the alternative origin trait to vice stinger, which has a little bit more kind of damage focus, but, you know, vice stinger is still great, but yeah, like, try and get far and forget from your, your farming for your serif weapons. It might be a little bit difficult, but suspect them can drop, you can enhance these perks as well. And yeah, it's certainly, certainly a good one for, for utility play impetus. I've had the envious firing line roll drop, and I've yet to fire it, I was kind of one of the roles that I had wanted, because I didn't get a reeds regret that I had been chasing. Gosh, when was that in the loop? Well, I think with the launch of Witch Queen was when it got to vice stinger added to it, and everyone really started going hardcore for it. So I was unlucky in my roles. I think the best thing I ever got back then was like clown cartridge focus, fire, focus fury, which was not it. So now that I have, now that I have an envious firing line roll, that is what I am wanting. But yeah, I haven't even fired it yet. Because again, LFRs aren't doing so well. So it's in the vault. It's chilling. And if the meta ever shifts back to LFRs, I will be ready to go with both a precision frame and an aggressive or they're no longer called aggressive frames anymore. They're what adaptive burst LFRs now and fire and forget. So yeah, that's, that's my thoughts on it. It's seems fine. I haven't fired it. Interesting gun. Funny gun. What is an ambush is like 10%? That was a really pretty interesting origin trade back then on those weapons. Yeah, so yeah, I use it for vests back then I haven't even used it with an ambush. Yeah, so against combatants during the opening moments of an engagement, basically, that means if you have not dealt or received damage in the last five seconds, you get plus 20 range plus 20 handling, and you get just just shy of a 11% increase damage against PvE combatants. Actually, there's no here LFRs only receive a just shy of 9% damage increase. So free damage. But yeah, vice stinger, I think still has a lot of play even though it's the nerfed version from a few seasons ago. Yeah, I think this is a good example of, this is like a good example of world loot weapon because I look at this thing and I think, you know, yeah, it's not a very strong archetype. It's got some interesting traits on here. It has, you know, a couple unique combinations. This is my like, you know, like a two spectrum is like the baseline for what I hope for from every world new weapon pretty much, right? If you're very unlucky to, to not get a type and to drop because type and it's got triple tap and column three. It's got field prep. It's also a clown cartridge. Then it's got your firing line. It's got frenzy. It's got focused fury. So it has the damage potential, but I think you only need one recipe for a type and anyway, and I think is it not part of that mini kind of quest for the relic? So I think you're guaranteed to get one, but that's yeah, that's your void option. If you're not too fond on that, if you want something more stasis oriented, then there you go. That's that's your spectrum too expensive to try and get read to regret. Because what is it like three or four trials, engrams for legacy loot? It's it's fairly. I think it's five. I think it's five. Okay. You don't want to do that. You don't want to do that. That's a no from redock. All right. Well, that's all we've got for episode 108 of PVE. Thanks for listening. And thanks for our audio engineer, Autodidactos for helping us sound our best each and every episode. Next week, we'll be back to talk about all the new playlist loop added in the final shape. Until then, my name is sink a beer. You can find me by that name, social media, PVE discord server or in game hunting for a chain reaction, dead grammar, impetus. Where can our listeners find you? My name is impetus. You can find me by that name in discord and in destiny and lurking on the pod versus enemies Twitter handle for our collective Twitter account. And also in game, I'll be chasing a lot. What will I be chasing? I'll be chasing kavos off. I'm still trying to track that down and wrap a few things and also build craft prismatic on my other two classes, court work and our listeners find you. Yeah, you can find me over in the discord and Twitter as court projects. You can find my infographics and spreadsheets along with many other great documentation and infographics spreadsheets websites to enhance your destiny experience over on the destiny to spreadsheets, link tree. And you can also find me in game, tweaking around with some stasis bells and prismatic bells, and maybe doing a little bit of iron banner. All right, we'll see you next week on podcast versus enemies. [BLANK_AUDIO]
