(soft music) - Hello and welcome to a special episode of Property Round of Pure and I Property Radio with myself, Carol Talon. And to let you be joined again by my co-host, Emma Craven, client, partner, director with staff.ie. And today, we're coming to you from the show apartment, at Prospect Bay by Waterloo Holmes in Clonter with Paul Brimes, managing director of Brimes. Paul, thank you so much for letting us into this stunning development. - No problem at all, yeah, most welcome. - Beautiful. - It is absolutely fabulous. And for anybody who's listening on audio only, I recommend you jump over to our YouTube channel, but if not, check out, we'll make sure that we have a behind the scenes on TikTok. So you can take a look at this development, not just the quality of the location is superb. The quality of the finish is just fantastic, but actually the entire development in terms of the open space that's planned, we'll definitely give a link to your website, Paul, so that people can-- - Yeah, please do, it'd be great. It's an incredible development. There's her two-one apartments, three detached houses planned to the rear, and you have an internal private park to the rear of the development as well, and then sort of front your face in St. Anne's Park and the views of Holmes and the sea as well. So it's top-class development, very well finished, and absolutely delighted to be the point of the agent on it. - Well, congratulations on that appointment, Paul. And like I said, for anybody who's listening on audio, do if you get a chance to talk to our YouTube channel or indeed check out TikTok, and we'll make sure that we have views, not just of the development, but from the balcony as well, because they're pretty spectacular. So down to business, Paul, it has been a long number of years since I've spoken to you before. It's, or is previously, I'm delighted to see you again, and I'm seeing you under a new brand, which is always exciting. - Yes, we re-grounded out of the ORIA group, and back in September last year, we had an incredible journey with the ORIA group, and my father was a founding member of the ORIA group. He was Willie Coonner and Jim Flynn, and a long number of years ago now, a fantastic organization. It was just our time to move on, and we still keep in touch with an awful lot of the agents in ORIA, great camaraderie, and do business with the agents that are still in the group. I know they're agents that may have moved on, you know? - Yeah, you know, that's interesting, because the state agency has always been a relationship business, and in respect of the brand, those relationships don't tend to change. But I think, you know, from our previous interviews with ORIA agents, one thing we always point out is that, actually, it's not a, it's not a franchise, as we might know, some of the property brands to be. So it has always been the connection of the people that has held that brand together. - That is it. I mean, that's the key. Like, it takes 25 years to build up your business, and, you know, 20 minutes to lose that name and reputation, relationship is absolutely key. - So with, without being on the ORIA or RRA, like, what's the biggest challenges you guys will face now, because I can imagine you're very supportive and the industry is like that. But then you guys are at your own. - Yeah. - And you're 14-year-old Pat. What like that? - Yeah, and in fairness, we're on our own. Like, the business is 53 years old this year, set up in 1971 by my late dad. We were on our own until 2020, when we joined the ORIA group and effectively founded it. And good story, I used to take the minutes at the meetings before the ORIA group was set up. The office. - Was that one of your early jobs? - Yeah, right. I was actually, I was actually the minutaker when it was in college, as a property economist in Baltimore Street. And I was the minutaker with the three lads, an incredible experience. I mean, still actually have the minutes of some of the meetings and stored away somewhere. And it was a gas because the lads were tortured where everything asked me, "Have I got that?" You have that now. Okay, give us that minutes tomorrow. And I need straight over to Miles for a couple of points. - Oh. - Yeah. - It was early start in property. And normally it's about, you know, maybe the excitement of seeing a development come out of the ground or maybe it's meeting sellers who need to move on for whatever reason. And, you know, being able to identify with that. But for you, your course introduction to property was how people in different businesses can work very well together. So, did that shape your view of competition? - That was probably after, like, I started actually in property by putting up the sign on a drive and I was doing show houses, you know, in the various new developments that we had in Ashburn and North Dublin in the early days, you know. And very well-prepped. It's a total different business now in terms of show houses to what it was then and what it is now. And, you know, let's see, the standard of houses on the compliance that goes and building houses can be completely different to what it was then. So, I mean, my early days in property were, again, dealing with public, dealing with the buyers in show houses. And then it's funny, the first sign of a property now going to the market is when it goes on to daft, right? So, people, they have their alert set up. And as soon as you lit the book and then it's on daft, the phone starts ringing. Back then, it was the sign in the garden. So, if my dad was taking on the property, I said, "Oh, we have a sign in your garden tomorrow, this is Jones." If that sign wasn't in the garden the next day, the person we bring in the office going, "Is my property for sale or not?" I thought she said the sign in the garden. So, it's incredible. Now it's literally, is it on my phone? Is it available to see out nine? Where is it, you know? - People think, "Oh, that's the high street now." You know? - It is, so daft has become the first responder. - It is, I mean, we are one of the most visible websites in the country. We all kind of know that. - People don't come to us for capitalos and everything else. They come to find property. Now, new properties in particular, demand is, and we talk about these stats, you know, frequently. True the roof, true the roof for new homes. So, like, what's the value add that's a grind would bring to an upper that's building to the markets? Why would they partner with the likes of you guys to sell these? - Well, I mean, our ethos in the company has always been that 25 years to build up the business, 20 minutes to lose it. It's honestly, it's integrity, and it's dependability. So, we're wholly dependable and we represent the builder on the site. So, I mean, we do that and we carry that through. And what has happened as data becomes more and more important, when we go live with a development, kind of pre-registration, you know, even in its very infancy. There's no show has, and then we just have CGI's and floor plans and specification. When we have that one that goes online, we're getting the details of the buyers, the profiling buyers, and we're making sure that when the developer goes live, that those people are showing the properties, sold the properties, and that allows the developer then plan into the future, into the development. Because you can only build as your clothes. So, we know that like financing something like this, you know, it's really important interest rates and how you get that money. And we can develop comprehensive packages for new homes that you guys use frequently. But on data, if you can get the properties of, and we have a discussion for this, I'm not sure we can release it. But like, you have a lot of these, like buyers lined up for these. As the guys, this has been finished. Well, you have demanded the door. - You have inquiries, absolutely. And you know, you say, well, they're lined up. People are absolutely interested, and they know that the location, the type of property, well, not just in this development of Rainier and Prospect Bay, but in many other developments that we're selling at North Dublin and Eastme, what people still generally want to get into the show is see the kitchen, see the wardrobes, see the layer, the light, the garden orientation. And yes, you can do a lot of that, you know, with technology now and, you know, virtual walkthroughs. And we do that as well. However, generally, the buyer will sign the contract once they've touched the kitchen and looked at the handles on the doors and again, generally. And we've also been at other instances where we've had all the technology and the video walkthroughs. And we've had them, the kitchen built on site. They do not show this, but on site where they actually can see the kitchen with rain, I get the physical kitchens, bathrooms, wardrobes on site. So yeah, it's about that journey for the buyer too. Yeah, because yes, we're representing the builder. But the other side is the buyer and how long they've waited for a property, looked for a property, waited for a property, made the decision that that's a little patient that won't live in. And then go through with that. - But it really frees up the builder. I get this built and I find my next development. And since we've discussed before, we start recording, getting into property development, it's all a conversation. Once you start to build in the background and you lift up, you're moving on to the next. There's no time for anything. - Yeah, no, you're not. And you're always working ahead. And when it comes to new homes, and certainly I'd be working on land, obviously, is the commodity. So you need the land, you can need the infrastructure, to go through the planning. And then on the back, the finance, been able to have the finance, to go through the construction development, so that it's there for the buyer. So it's land, infrastructure, planning, finance, and then you're on the market and yourself. - And that's the sequence of the value of relationships. Who's buying in this particular development? Because we know this is an area of exceptionally high demand, exceptionally low supply. So I would imagine, even before taking the instruction on this, you probably had a call list of buyers. - Yeah, there definitely was, you know, people that had interest and followed are actually through the planning stage. And, you know, that's, people do that when they see various different developments, much as to your book, whatever in the areas that we work in. They're looking at the land. Is it zoned? They see the planning notice what, and they have a look at it. And invariably, they're looking for different garden sizes, different orientations. So we have that, and we have that here as well. But generally here, there's only 31 apartments. It's a very high-end, exclusive development. They're probably an interim part of the area. - I agree. - Really, really well finished. See, people that are selling high-value properties, to trade down into them, and maybe they've properties elsewhere, and they can spend three months here, three months there, and here, and they don't want any maintenance. So they lock up, they leave, they're not secure and safe, and then they travel. And then there's others, and, you know, that have bought owners in first-hand buyers in the technology in the street, given the location it is. I mean, you can let your scooter into them. - I used to do a point. - I used to do it. I used to live a stone-struck on the park on the opposite side, and I could cycle in an extra city for 20 minutes. - An unbelievable location, Mike. And again, I iterate. Everybody scales for YouTube channels, but I probably radio, and have a look at this. It's stellar. It is really stellar, but yeah. So the type of people that are buying them, what are they looking for? Are they looking for that private park? Are they looking for light? What is, when they come in, and they... - That's, look, they're looking for a very low-finished apartment in a cracking location. And you have the internal product in the rear, which is a massive puzzle, too. - It's just low maintenance. It's an energy rate for the apartment. So, I mean, it's the same as you'd probably eat this when it comes, you know. - It's quality. We need to temper expectations. You've talked about first one apartment. Most films are gone. So for people who are listening in today, what's the day of them? - We've four or two better apartments remaining, and four or one better apartments. - Okay, and you touched on something really important. I'm a huge advocate as a unit of technology. And I think during COVID, buyers really joined us on that journey and experiencing property using whether it's Matterport or Virtual Tours or something. But there is something about that physical touch in the door handle, as you mentioned. And actually, a great example of that was we spent our days coming in and out of homes, whether they're newly built or second-hand homes. And our producer, Katie, as she walked in the door, despite us admiring the development from the outside and walking up through the development, she walked to the doorway all while. And that's maybe the something that is difficult to get across online. - Yeah, that's it. And you see the dimensions. You see the proportions are in some lovely white hogs. Everything else will be a chair accessible now. So you see that when you come in here. And the hall actually has become, you can see it's part of the living area here. You know, the important computer desks and the shop. And yeah, that's it. You've got it. You can't get into the property in a apartment that has and actually seen, oh, that's the kitchen and get brilliant. They're the toys, yeah, I like that. That's the town. That's the toys. You know, wardrobe's having a look at it and kind of visualizing living in the house. Let's see. - Oh, how important is it? You know, I understand the tangible, but say the interior is here. They're absolutely beautiful. But are you thinking of the potential buyer in mind? So I walk into this apartment. I would love to live here. I would not love to live here, potentially maybe with young children. And that's only, when I say that, because of maybe decor or something. So in terms of show houses, do you have in mind the end user when you're designing show houses? - Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you have to, you know, and I'm in fairness, the interior designers do a great job. And regular product that this one, it's based on old soul and soul and soul from here. And that's what it's about knowing. Knowing the market, I haven't said it, like not every time it's like the show is. And I know, I know mine is a book. - Yeah. - For like children while I'm around, or something that's like it, it's mayhem. But, you know, you're certainly knowing your client comes from you. I mean, if a builder is working on his specialism, which is building, he needs to rely on you to know who's going to be. - Yeah, but well, it's, I mean, again, builders have come out incredibly in how they turn out their developments. I mean, we've acted for a number of the, you know, the PSE developers, they have departments within their firms, not only the PSEs, but those are phenomenal builders. And that we act for a second, you know them. They know, and they're soul and true, whatever, they should be finishing out. 'Cause compliance doesn't like that, you know? Any property that's built now versus, you know, even A or an A energy rated, or an R&B energy rated property versus stuff that we've sold in the years done by is the D. But that's true, no fault of that property. It's just that compliance and specification at the point of time was every year as you moved through it. There's different, you know, building requirements coming out, there's new standards. And every woman's evolved, you know, in terms of the installation, you know, when those, the various finishes, you know? So yeah. - But I suppose it's horses for horses as well. And one of the things I'm always interested when I get to speak to the state agents up and down the country is that while we look at the huge amount of data available, particularly just in the last week, ESRI released another challenge of data that we really hope is going to feed into the review of the National Development Plan. We have Emmet on hand here to share all of the data stats. But one of the areas where local state agents really add value is not just by knowing the stats of the virus, but they actually know the virus and their mobile numbers, where they work and their salary range. And so from that perspective, if we look at, and maybe just look outside of this development. - Yeah, well, yeah. - Just buying in the clown chart area in this kind of the budget range. - Okay, well, amazing. And when I was selling this development for different people, you know, when we were doing the showing, came to me and said, oh, we bought our first house from your dad, and I was like, japers, that's mad. And it was like back in 1986 in Ashburn. So here was a couple involved, their very first house from grinds in Ashburn. And they're now buying an apartment from me. - That's a lovely full circle over there. - Yeah, the life cycle, really. - The process, everything else. - Yeah, it's emotional. It's like, it's incredible when that happens, you know? - But that's the trust. That's where, you know, sometimes I think with brands, we get bogged down with their brand colors and bogged and tagged, particularly the digital age, where it's actually, all the brand is as a way for people to recognize the human mind. - Yeah, but exactly, everyone's lovely to see that. But the key for us is the people that we have on our teams, that we have in our offices, that everyone understands, that's what we're from. That's what we're working to, and that's how we do business. - And it's a good segue back into grind as a brand and as a business, and the challenges you guys face now, or building, like I'm assuming your goal is to build and grow the business over the next 10, 20 years. - Yeah, look, well, do you want to grow when do you want to have 15 offices? I don't know, never say never, but, you know, the technology, it's all about technologies, the technology piece, it's still like the people, the relationships, why do people come up? Ask you to represent them the same as the biggest assets. Why? It's because you're dependable, you're honest, you know, and they know when they ring you, that they get you and you ring back, or if they don't, it's amazing, the people that don't. So, do we want to have 15, 20 offices? We currently have four, we're happy with four, we family that work in the various offices, so the World of Journalism Scaries, Sugar On Manages, Ashford, Amy Klotarff, and the Dublin office of town, and we do have the brother Robert who works on another side of the business and the financial services and EBS end of the business, so, you know. - How do you get your family to be in property for 50 years? How do you get that to your next generation of staff and people you're training? - Yeah, but the company is wrong as a business, so it's a family-owned business, but it's wrong as a business. So, take me out of town-tarff and put a branch manager in there. Everyone still has their targets, their KPIs, and the business, but it's wrong under the ethos of honesty, integrity, depending on them, depending on them. And that's what it is, so, and that goes for how many of the branches that we have. - It's hard to replicate though. I mean, we've seen this around the country when we talk to successful independent estate agents, they're finding really good, reliable staff that will replicate what I've brought to my staff. Now, you had the benefit of having a partner in the business. You have very close family, you are all property experts. Like, for me, I'd be a little nervous, like, at the next generation of crimes, trying to be as good as you guys. - Yeah, and who knows, you know? Who knows what the next generation is going to bring? Who knows what technology is going to bring? - Yeah. - And who will there be, you know? Avatar selling the property to be an avatar of me. You know, I don't know. But to me, property is about the people. And, you know, when everything hit the farm in, you know, 10, 11, 13, it was a mass sale of assets on behalf of financial institutions and banks. And we were involved in, you know, going around that, finding out from the various financial institutions is that our people, ideas are vacant, is it less? Who's in it? Well, it was families in those properties. So, we were very, very conscious of that, you know, going back to the people and, yes, they're in the position here, and so, and sometimes when you're dealing with financial institutions or being private equity, they're like, I don't know where we have to sell that new line. It's found me in there, it's gone to the community, you know, there was probably more rental property available back then. So, they were able to move, and then the property might have been able to be sold or whatever. But now, if, you know, you're trying to replicate that, there's such a shortage of availability of property, and it's so tight in the rental market, given where supplies are. And you look back and you say, well, why is that? Why is supplies so bad? Yet, I go back to kind of 2011 to 2018, 2019. Like, certainly 2011 to 2015, we weren't in a very good place as a country. So, spending on roads, spending on water, spending on transport, you know? That's coupled with the zoning land when actually we should be rezoning land and zoning more land, because land is the initial commodity. I mean, that's where properties have to build a land of the infrastructure. You have to leave the structures trying to catch up and have no because of the lag when the country didn't have money to invest in our infrastructure in the result of migration, right? And then you look at a planning system that has its challenges. And then you're looking at the finance, where interest rates have gone and where they're at, you know, for development finance. So you put all that together and I'm simple to find it, where there's experts that would say it's much better than knowing them, but we need more land. It is so, so simple. D-zoning land and the last development plans from the areas that I haven't bought and kind of need them and no more Dublin, it's just madness. Paul, you've a really interesting perspective that a lot of estate agents and auctioneers might not have, not just across the four different offices, but also the fact that you're (indistinct) also operating in something that is touching off quite rural areas as well in Ashburna and across the county that has been impacted by the D-zoning land. Now, obviously, you know, we touched on the importance of data earlier and while the government certainly talks about taking a data-driven approach, we know that our planning system went down right now, at the moment, it's Latino-style. We know this and it's a Latino-style for a number of reasons. One of those is under-resourcing, but actually, are you, you know, in terms of the data, we now have the greatest, the new challenge of data from the latest census data. So we've been promised that that will feed into an evidence-based approach to policy making, which means lands that were dissolved for perhaps the right reasons. You know, whether it's flood plains or otherwise, that actually it's more about the quantum of land that becomes available. So actually, will we see a zoning of further areas to make more land available? Because your point is absolutely spot-on. We do need more land because it's impacting affordability, which is then, in turn, impacting project viability. You're experiencing it. The developers you're talking to. Yeah, that's, like, the main, if you're a baker and you have to bake, how's the bones a day? And they're only giving you enough flour for 500 bones. What's going to happen, the price of the bone? - Now, to be fair, I know that just, you know, to pay the debt with that, get here, and it's not often I'm a defender of the state, but, you know, we've had, as you rightly pointed out, a lost decade of infrastructure. - A hundred percent. - Yeah, no. - We're only just catching up now in terms of water supply and others. - Of course, and it takes time. How many decisions that's made today, you know, to see that coming through, you know, takes three to five years? - Yeah. - That's actually what happens by the time the land is zoned, is it serviced, goes through a planning application. - Yeah. - Bill gets on site to build roads and put in services. Show has a built first document. So that's just the time lag. And, absolutely, I mean, the stats, more than anyone, the issue is that we just, we need action. And in fairness, they are catching up, you know, the other thing to point out is that there might be lands zoned, but, you know, what's the zoned to actual development ratio? Now, 50% of the lands that are zoned might not-- - Yeah, that's the perspective. - Might come true. And we try to, you know, look at that with the, you know, the land, the tree percent, land tax. And certainly, that will, the user lose the concept. - Yeah. - You know, certainly. - See, you know, genuine apartment feels that that's the right solution at the wrong time. When we're not there yet, there are too many structural and planning issues that actually make that life. But so much is outside of control of developers. But I think the interesting perspective that you have is that as somebody who's also selling land, you're speaking to the developers who are considering this, knowing they have to go through that pipeline to deliver that you've just described. Which can be, I mean, it should really be a two to three year process. But we know it can be a four to five to six year process. How are your developer clients feeling about the review of the National Development Plan, about the promises that have been made in terms of planning with them? - Yeah, well, it needs to come, it needs to come quick. And I know it is on the way. It'll be very interesting to see what does happen. And how do they feel about it? There's a lack of supply of land. And that lack of supply is happening. It's just, it's just having an impact on their business. I mean, genuinely, builders and developers for what they go through to have a finished product and anime keys to all be by, it is incredible. Honestly, and I know I'd obviously be pro developer, but I see it firsthand. And I guess that there has to be, and there is a very functional planning system where people can object and whether they like it, don't like it. And there's guidelines and rules around it. Honestly, the time the builder buys their developer builder, buys a person's land, to the time he hands the keys to it will be fire. It is one hell of a journey for them. - Yeah, and look, it's raw with risk. And in fact, the process of development today has become a process in de-risking, which is made particularly difficult by maybe some of their directory challenges in place. And some of our deficits, which to be fair, are being addressed, and that's a good thing. But you know, you talk about that impacting the developer's business, it impacts your business as well, but it's a unique product to sell. So can we turn our attention, maybe to the second hand? All of a sudden. - Yeah, no problem. - And you're always a part of information. The Qatar, give us a rundown of the stats for Qatar. - Well, when we think about the most experienced barriers to buy-in, the country of Qatar, as you know, routinely mentions in the same vein, as they go, keep the liney, you know, West Cork, we discussed earlier, before we were recording. It is one of the places that people put, it's a stone stroke from all the tech companies to modernize, with all firms from the center of Dublin too, so you can get in and out on a bike. So all around here, so a development like this, it comes at once in a minimum, really. Now, there has been some discussion about resounding and building in St. Allen's Park, and all this type of stuff. And I did live here for a good couple of years, and to be honest, it's often overlooked as one of the premium areas in Dublin, like, but if you look at the average house price around here, it's higher beyond what is, you know, a national average, you know, well beyond the 6th of 2000, real market. And due to class, I mean, new property. And there are only a thousand properties in Ireland over a million people, but there's a huge amount of properties in Qatar for over $850,000, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - So, when we talk about de-risking for builders and talking about the second-hand market, given myself a plug here, getting daft and advertising early, and you've talked about this, the demand is there, and if you can get a good agent to line up that demand, we feel developers can make a more informed decision. We have a really sophisticated data tool, which measures market supply and demand. And that tool is available for people who want to subscribe to it. But what it does is it measures where the demand is from people on the site, what they're clicking, we measure there, where the interest is, and builders a lot of the time, subscribe to that data and they find out where the demand is, and then they put their teams up and find the land banks and go to the next event. To assist them on that way. So, that's who daft is looking at it. Banks are looking at it to figure out where it's going to go with organizations, where the infrastructure should go next. Like everybody looking at properties on daft. Now, we're not the only source of information, but that's how they use our tools and our sophistication around. If the demand is, and then they put the supply there, but then, as you say, the infrastructure has to follow. But from my opinion, it's like, which comes first, it's going to be a, you know, we start a bit, like the houses are going in there. There'll be a lot of pressure on the level and say, "Well, look, you need the service. "Sometimes these people need to live in them." So, by, I think developers don't get enough credit for drawing this thing forward, because entrepreneurship is what drives everything forward. And the demand is there, the developers are fighting to the nail to get these land banks opened up, allow them service for water and boats. And then it drives government policy to say, "Okay, that's another good idea. "That's it, the property's there." - Yeah, not that. I mean, that is the name of the game of the game. Great, we're sitting in one turf, so we're chosen way to the turf. However, any zone development land that comes to market here or becomes available here, we get green view of our ground and field site. You know, the only way to build in these locations is up. - What's? - So, you're into apartment, apartment building, you know. - And you talked about, sorry, putting up, you talked about the demographic of the people buying here. People trading down. There isn't enough of this available. So we're not seeing the second hand stock in the Clontarp area. Over 850,000 moving to our site because they're not people. - Exactly, so. - And there has to go full circle. - And they have these huge houses with huge gardens that were built at the time when people could get a huge house in the huge garden. You can't be maintained when aging demographic. - That's a really interesting point. You just mentioned, and I'm wondering if we could offer already a whole potentially to buyers in this area. So you mentioned that there are three people coming in here, your potential buyers, but this particular development on the R course and the beautiful Prospect Bay Show apartment in Clontarp. But for people who have maybe sale, agreed, an apartment on this, or an apartment within this development already, are any, are many of them freeing up houses in the area here that will be coming to market? - Yes. - All right, can you share any secrets? - And also, somehow, people from out of boat here, talking at Clontarp and generally they are downsized. And so, and- - And are a lot of them local. - Yes. - And they're selling off, so those properties will become at the market. - Yeah, will be, and have done, because obviously in terms of apartment building, this block is going to be finished on a day or 31. So in terms of funding, we need to have the buyers ready to go to move in. Unfortunately, it's not like a housing development. And I know, as I said, we're in Clontarp, but I mean, our scariest office, where we, you know, in scariest, rush, lust, some of the eight swords would be more housing, same than Ashburn. When we're said we've, Ashburn, we've thousands of drawers to leak, dumb-boing, retilt. So all those are more housing developments. - Yeah. - So what you have is you have a developer here, and so there's 20 of those. Two of those will be finished next week. No, they're trying to be finished three weeks after. So we can sell, I'm just finding out, the financing model is less stressful. In housing schemes, none of them will be in blocks. - Would you, just on that point, would you recommend somebody down the site to come to you already? I'd say, I'm taking the selling one house, 'cause I want to buy an apartment. You'd be like, we're done buying more. - That is the absolute key. - Yep. - In this location, you're various developers that sold to, you know, build a rental partner. It's sold to private equity that, well, for rent yield. And I get that, and that's absolutely very important for the rental market to keep supply there. But if someone is looking in this location, the only location, but, you know, the earlier you have a thought process around your sales process, hmm, is key. Like, I often hear people say, I know she might have some sale in a week. Yes, you could have a definitely a very willing buyer identified in a week. What price would they pay? What's their purchase and position? Are they fully loan approved? You know, they won't be until they've identified a property and the valuation's been done on that. And then on the sales side, you have to have your ducks in the row with your documentation to sell the property, the deeds, after the divorce or else it's going to market. You're not in the first registration, but it hasn't been sold since 2012. And all your certificates have been applied. So effectively the buyer act that, you know, what I want to talk about previously. So yes, you could have a buyer identified in a week, but actually the sales process would take two to three months. - Okay, I want to take advantage of the fact that I have experts who are also innovators and entrepreneurs sitting around the table. How is the only solution to be so super organized? You know, we say it a lot on the show, you know, you have to have your ducks in a row, you know, you have to be organized. But actually, knowing that there are people in large homes, right across the country, who wants downsize as soon as supply becomes available, knowing that these projects that create supply need to be financed, how do we not have a product that helps people to sell their home without the stress, without this extreme time crunching? So that actually they have that window of being able to sell their home and being able to vacate their home and take in the phones and then be able to part the new property. Bridget feels like the wrong solution. But that's effectively what we're talking about. Bridgeting finance on the backup. So, you know, parking is ready and you're ready to move. It's that whole stress around people that stress anxiety and people go, the phone thing is one thing, but how am I going to leave 40 years of the lifetime? - Yeah. - And that's why getting organized early is to start that process. But it all comes into the decision, to make the decision first and then to act on that. - There have been a number of international examples of where innovators have tried to solve this. There's been a thing called the Playfire and some of our international say similar companies such as Zillow and the US and stuff like that. They did this I-fire model where people could come in and stuff and they just buy it often. So we bought how fond you're is. - Yeah. - It's stolen, just a model. - But that's different because it's discounting, where it's actually what we want is almost like probably comparable to bridging button. It just feels like a really solvable problem that would free off homes that we know there's a- - And there's a cost. - Yeah. - And those two things we haven't solved yet. There's a risk of the property market turning in which way we do there and the person that is guaranteed to finance the person selling your home may lose those and that's what happened to the I-fire market. And then there's the cost of that finance. Like who funds that actually sell your home? Who funds that until you move into the apartment? So the apartment gets delayed for a month. You've sold it on this day. There's a month of a gap there. If there's somebody to move into that house, it's that little bit of risk in finance which I haven't seen and what's over yet. - Do you know my first introduction to property was as a legal graduate almost quarter of a century legal and it was dealing with the exchange where buyers or unsellers were in a chain and everything had to happen the same day and it was ridiculous quarter of a century ago. And to think that the same thing still applies today in an era of fintech innovation in an era of racial security in an area of we have access to data that could be secured to be able to bridge that. And I'd love to see the private sector step up in innovation in this area. But if not the private sector actually would imagine the stage would be motivated to do this because it would be freeing up second-man homes. And by the way, just, you know, and I know that's kind of a hypothetical. And this is a call out to anybody who has a solution. Come talk to us about that. - I think the key factor there is if you look at what's the volume of that particular market. You know, and I think when you do the numbers on it, yes, it all sounds unknown. Everyone would definitely move, but actually what is the actual volume of that market. And then things in your point about the price of the product. What is the product? How is it secured? What's the risk? And the key when you're doing any sort of trade but you don't pour down is to try and trade in the same market. So if you're selling out now and downsizing and you're selling out, again, for the sake of course, one and a half million. You're buying an apartment for 700 grand. The difference is the key. - Yeah. - Okay, so it's that 800 grand is the key. You're getting your timing right on that line is very important. That's very important, obviously, when the market, you know, if you sell your property one and a half million, when the market keeps going up, then you'd say, by that money buying there. - Yeah. - You're going to be secured by a apartment I call it 700 hasn't. So if the market grows by 10%, it's up 150 year apartments of 70. But actually, it's not about the ability to move. I'm actually living and moving on and the security of that. - Being in the same market, that sounds infinitely sensible. Buying in the same market, that sounds sensible. But you, like not just grinds with the 53 years of experience, you have a lot of personal experience in this. And you know that sellers always want to get premium. And as they in turn, the same month are buying, they still want to buy it at discount. Because even though the logic of buying a seller in the same market should be very obvious, it's not when you deal with the individuals. And I, you must have experienced that. - We do, you experience it every day because every single transaction is different. - Yeah. - And the other thing to point out is that you have a seller, you have a seller solicitor, you have a buyer, a buyer solicitor. You have a buyer's family advisement, and you have a buying valuation surveyor, give them their bit of advice, then you have a structure surveyor or a sniper. So you have a whole load of people, giving people advice, and everyone was an expert. And we find that all the time. And it's actually quite, like if you keep it simple, that's the key to the transaction, 'cause it's, yes, that money element is important. But if you know that's where you want to live, and you have the means to do, then getting on with your life in that, you get a apartment, the house with a big garden is key. That is actually the bigger picture. - Yeah, you know, I love that because actually only last week, it was a very deaf, released, it's latest, has first report, and we had the opportunity to interview Ronan Lyons. And that was his final piece of advice for people to like, almost not to get too bogged down, trying to preempt the trends, that actually is the right time for you personally, where you are in your life and where you are. And, but like, it was a really strong point that he made. - And, I mean, like, have your family, have young children, and the age of children, have each other gone to college, you know, do they even have, get there by both the rail? - Yeah. - I think they're obviously going to be living at home, rather than renting somewhere. And, you know, where rents are, at the moment, to be in college or work with myself. So actually, that whole piece is, is so key, and that comes back then to where do you want to live, where the schools, shops, sporting clubs. - Well, interestingly, like, we, here's a take them to the house. So when they're buying homes, like, what you're saying is you kind of, where's your family like, come to be in the next 10 years? It's not like, I used to work in the city center, there was only two of us, we lived in a small little house there, and now, like, for the kids, you know, I don't work in city center anymore. Like, staying there long term wasn't an option for us. So like, it leads into that, what we're saying, it's people need to think further ahead. - And it's rare, I mean, again, we're in apartments here, but it's very rare that I've sold an apartment to someone that's traded down from my house, very rare, that the God wishes in my house. And very, if you meet them down in the shop, where no one lives there, then I'll supervise you right in the back, like, oh me, we're delighted, no gardening. Yeah, and we're like, that's it, you know? So, that's getting on with life, you know? So wherever you are, whatever stands, you're at, that's actually fundamentally. I mean, the other thing you just pointed out, it's funny, dread years, you're out socially, and people go, what's my end? What do you reckon my hands is working out? I'm like, oh, I think you're moving. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, there's absolutely-- - Yeah, right there, can you afford it? - Yeah, do you like living there? - Yeah, it doesn't matter. - Yeah. - It actually doesn't matter for your principal prime of residence. Once you can afford it, it's comfortable. Your family are happy. And you have a great, you know, and it's worth it. - Well, we see examples of that with the daft offers too. We have an online bidding too, we have the offers, we do billions and transactions in it. What we see people bidding in, like, 100 increments, 1000 increments, and then they lose the property for 500 grid, and like, people are talking to some of them, bid seven grand, bid to the top of your thing straight away, because like, if it's the house you want, go wide, give as much as possible, speak to the age in seven, what this has got from there, they'll give you pretty accurate price, bid, all of the money come together, because within a year-- - Yeah, you know, I hear you, and again, look, people want to buy for as cheap as they can, and I understand that, it's the same, you know, if you're going to tune your shop of the journey. - I already say it's on. - Like, I get that mentality, and I'm probably, I'm probably simplifying it too much, because it is a very, you know, it's a very important transaction, and it's very emotional transaction, I think we're making it when the Supreme's been crying in residence, so I don't want to buy any means, so like, 500 in a thousand, like, after tax, you know, that's up, so, you know-- - Oh, but there's a psychology of play as well, I think buyers don't like to feel dumb, they don't want to feel, you know, they want to feel like they've had a bit of a-- - But I think it goes to what you're saying Paul, it's like, think ahead, you know, what's a thousand euro, if you've actually kept a house here you're in, like, if you did have to pay a thousand euro over one, you probably could've got it for, you got it in a little third here, you know, the deal close, you can move on with your life and start thinking a little bit. - Yeah, it's like a friend of mine had fake grass in their backyard. - I was on the train, I thought it'd be great. I thought it'd be great to have that, how much was that, remember, it's expensive enough. So, I said, "Sure, it'd be great to have." So, roll on kind of November, kids are at home, their eyes were playing football and play dates and grass got all mochi, they're coming in and I was like, "I have to get that fake grass." Got the fake grass, the game changer. - Really? - In terms of-- (laughing) - It's expensive. - So, rolling on seven years, the fake grass is there. - Yeah. - It's the best thing ever. - Great. - How much was it? Honestly, I'm not too sure. (laughing) Because the days and the hourly rate on the fake grass, it's back to yours. - Yeah. - Yeah, it is. - You were a backyard. - That's it. - You know, we talk a lot on the show and I'm conscious of time, so I know we have to wrap up, but we talk a lot on the show about, you know, the challenges and fires and stuff. We're talking about the challenges of estate agents, and business owner operations. So, tell me, just, you know, in the context of the conversation we've had today, you know, we know that there's a shortage of pipeline coming through until there's more new homes coming available. You're not as likely to get the second ad homes. So, looking ahead for grinds, you've got four offices that you need to keep a pipeline of properties coming through, whether they're land sales, new homes, or indeed, second ad homes. - You know, how are you? - Valuations. - Valuations, how are you feeling about the next kind of year to change in months? - The key for us is our people and the people that are working with us. And we love people that are really well connected and just great people. And we look out after our people and just we love ambassadors for the business that are generally living locally and connected with communities that we operate. And that for us is key. It's back to the relationship thing. - How challenging have you bounded actually to find stuff? Because that's one of the recurring issues, particularly more for rural, rather than urban agents. But the window really difficult, you know, the next generation of talent coming through, you know, are they choosing a state agency as a business? - It's very competitive. - I'm not sure. - You need qualified staff, first and foremost, because everything we do, we do right into a system and it's fully regulated and we've systems in place for all of that. It comes down to having good people. How's our pipeline looking? It's quite positive. But like we invest in our communities where we're, you know, a part of local clubs, gay clubs, golf clubs, soccer clubs, you know, there are schools, you know. So we give back, there's a constant gift back there. I am, you know, cricket clubs into a jar. I've never had a cricket ball in my life, but it's a brilliant community, you know. - It seems good, though. - With the fastest growing agents in the country, I'd be most visible in their community, online, at the properties they're selling. And it's the same with the cricket club. The top name of property in Ireland, like, DAFT is on every, you talk to property, everyone talks with DAFT because we're the top of marketing. And like, I try and iterate, that's every age. You need to be in the top of mind to the people you want to live. - Well, I mean, we're, so we're 53 years in Ashburn. Yeah, this year. I think we're 32 years in scaries and that's originally from scaries. So we're Dartmouth managers. And we're five years, England Tariff now in Holst. And then the opposite time we've had that actually came about on the back of when everything collapsed. I was doing not a lot of different things. We couldn't receive a shit worm on the right, right? Anyone that would give you any sort of value, each one, first transaction worker. And they opened them up to 30, 40, since we even square applying to bars. Had the building, I took the top floor. I put in a desk, a computer. And, you know, then moved down to Pembrot Street, just opposite FXB's mixed it, really cold ones there, when we stopped for an hour and a quarter of a bagged street. So it grows by as most as put, but it's nearly when you're there when people kind of go, "Oh yeah." We must get in to look at this and look at that for. So that's the way it grows. - Yeah. - And sorry, don't get me wrong. Like there are serious challenges in terms of rolling a business with 26, in terms of the companies at all. And working with us for as a business business. As someone said to me, families of that love, monies of that business. And, you know, you mix the two of them, you have to separation. I'm more blessed that we do. I'm a fairness to that day, you know. And he said that, you know, there has to be a boss and everyone will all work together and we do. So, yeah, challenges are there in terms of pipeline we're blessed with very, very good clients. I'm good people, you know. Yeah, I'm making changes. - Yeah. - Fantastic. So any final wisdom to share from that, because obviously you have the perspective of being able to look across all agents. - I think we always discuss technology. Everyone's, you know, the latest thing was, say, social media, blockchain. And now it's AI, everything is AI. So we're looking at all of those things, but I think the fundamentals remain the same. In all business, whether it be property, whether it be tech, whether it be advertising, if you're visible and your clients are seeing you often enough, they will do business with you. And then it's about building that trust. How do they trust you? They need to know you first. And I would just always recommend like you, you're as visible as possible. Make sure your brand is seen by as many people as possible. That's just where everybody goes. So to make sure you have the biggest presence you can on our website, and that breeds success. And it was an old phrase, I think, maybe from your dad's time that came back to me as boards, breed boards. When sign boards were the most common way of setting a house and you'd get great anecdote, but now it's on daft, but before it was put the sign board out there, we have to say a mantra internally. If people see you on our website, they'll invest with you. So that's what we think. And it's the recommendation I go to agents with that I can run my business. And what I work for that is if there is a number of ways and you're doing awesome and you're doing really, really well, what makes sure people see you. They have to see you. And on the tech, technology side of things, keep embracing it, keep talking to you, keep listening to Carol and making sure you're on top of trends and watching dark for the ladies' innovations. - Less than every day is a school day, but thank you so much for all of our 11s and to Prospect Bay. It is an absolutely beautiful development. So again, for anybody listening on audio, try and make your way over to YouTube channel or certainly check out behind the scenes video on TikTok just to really get a glimpse of what this is like. And of course, how far apart is that is down today? The sun is out, sky, blue. And again, it's amazing for anybody who's watching on YouTube instruction work going on in the background for so for anybody just listening on audio, the rumbling sounds you're hearing while we're sitting in a beautifully finished show apartment, there's construction work going on in under us, above us around us below. So it's absolutely fantastic to see and wonderful for our client hour. So I'm very excited, not just for the new buyers that come in and get to live here, but actually for the homes that they're vacationed because we know there's so many people sitting, watching, waiting to go in. Paul, thank you so much for showing us around today. - I'm a total news welcome man. Thank you for your time. - Absolutely thrilled and thank you to all the team Ash Bryant, that's all the time for today. And of course, thanks to Emmeth Creighton, client partnership director with adapt.ie, artist most business or property website. As you've reminded us several times today, but it's good because visibility success breeds success. And my thanks to producer Katie Tannum's production team, I hear me roar media, we'll catch you on the next episode of the property round up here on our property radio.com. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
