As long as I don't botch it, which is entirely possible, then you have to leave it in. With the magic of editing we can do over. We can rebuild him, make him stronger. You know what really makes us mad is wasting money on CDs with only one or two good songs. Yeah, tell me about punk! *Music* What's up, posers? Welcome to Punk LottoPod. I'm your co-host Justin Hensley. I'm your other co-host, not Dylan Hensley. And this is the show where we choose one year at random and select one punk, hardcore emo or punk adjacent album from that year to discuss. And that's right, Dylan's not here today, so we are joined by good friend of the show, host of the podcast, one band 5 song song, one band 5 songs. Get it at some point. One band 5 song is just sounds like very like a translation, like somebody doesn't speak English. The Oklahoma Lefty, Dave Brown, welcome back to the show. Hey thanks for having me, I really appreciate you asking me to jump on while Dylan's off vacationing somewhere. Yeah, it's funny, Dylan, he's like I'm gonna go to the desert and like drive around on the mountains and then I was at work like watching the weather across the nation where it's like triple digits across the entire like west coast of you know, the United States. And I texted him and said how hot is it? And he was like it's not so bad when it's not humid, like mmm, that's true. Yeah, that's what people don't realize sometimes, especially if you're not in somewhere that has a lot of humidity, humidity fucks with you man, it is, it makes hot a thousand times worse. Oh yeah, yeah, when I moved with Dylan out to Phoenix to help him move, it was like upper 90s, so it was August, so like it's probably in the hundreds that day, but it was like in the 90s that night when we were unloaded in the truck, but there was a point where like we stopped for gas and like I'm standing in the sun and then I go into the shade and it was like a 10 degree difference. I was like amazed, I was like this is what shade's supposed to do instead of here in the south, where if you're in the shade, it feels exactly the same as if you're in the sun. It does, so let me ask you this about about North Carolina weather. Does your day, as your day goes on, does it get just even in the late afternoon, early evening, does this still keep getting hotter? Because here it does. It's like you would think, oh, the sun's starting to go down, it's going to be really, nope, two o'clock in the morning, it's like 95 degrees, like what's going on here? Yeah, it'll do that here, like you'll get a little bit of a cool down, just but not much, like it'll still be, you know, 80% humidity and so you'll be like, it feels terrible, it should be cool, it's nighttime, but yeah, so gross, but no one tuned in, I'm sure for weather talk. I was about to say, man, we got on the weather right away. You could tell we're two middle aged men. Indeed. So yeah, Dylan's on vacation and I was thinking, like, all right, who do I ask? You know, sometimes I ask good friend Corey to fill in, but I think he was off doing something, I think he was traveling to some point, so I didn't even ask him, like, so I was just like, all right, who else? Who's a really good co-host to talk with? And so then I thought of you, and then funnily enough, it turned out to be like the exact same week that our other buddy, Steve Long, asked you if you wanted to do the episode of One Band Five Songs. Yeah, that was ironic. We got the, I'm only double chats going on going, oh, yeah, sure, that works. But I mean, at for a minute there, I was like, oh, shit, I might have to record all this in like a two day span, but thankfully no. No, no, no. So you're in demand this week. So honestly, if you follow the, I don't know what to call our extended universe, but our podcasting extended universe, you're getting lots of cross pollination between us covering Steve's Patreon pick, Steve being on your show, and then doing the interview episode, and then you being on this show, just lots of lots of fun collaboration. Well, it doesn't, it doesn't hurt that we talk to each other on almost a daily basis in our group chat we have going on. So yeah, it's definitely easy to be like, hey, podcast host, do you want to come co-host the podcast? Exactly. But yeah, I like, I like having other co-hosts on because we get a very different perspective, even outside of just the usual, you know, having a guest on type thing. So we love having you on. And I'm really, really looking forward to this episode. Like all week, I've been like, this is going to be fun. I cannot wait to do this one. I've been looking forward to it too. And I love coming on the show and talking with you guys. So it's a good time to this. This is an interesting year. And when when we kind of break down our picks, as it may, may I tell the story? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so Justin was like, Oh, here, let me just give you a year and let's both pick stuff and then see what happens. Yeah. And so as always, I sent a nice long list. I did break mine into three separate sections, depending on how much research would be needed. And then Justin replied back, say, okay, well, here are the two that we both picked on our own that was on both of our lists. Which one? And I think I was finally said, I was like, well, let's do this one. Because I definitely know this one better. And that's the record we're going to talk about today. And what year are we talking about again? We were talking about the year 2011. 2011, which is it we don't know, which is a ladies and gentlemen, how do you say the year 2011? Yeah, I want to say, I think Dylan and I talked about this when we talked about like 2010 or something like that. We were talking about how there was a point where we used to say 2010 and 2011, but then it switched to us to people saying like 2010, 2011. So I don't know. I don't remember when that switch happened probably when we got into like 2013, 2014, you know, but it's probably has something to do with the farther into the 2010s that we got and the farther away from the aughts. Because you weren't going to say 2008. You're going to say 2008. Yeah. So it just, it took a while for the zeitgeist to adjust their speech. Because, you know, in 1908, they weren't saying, you know, well, they were saying, you know, I never mind that that one. Jesus Christ. And they weren't saying 1988, you know, like that, right? Or 1908, right? Or 1998. Yes. God, can you imagine? I wonder if they did. You know what? I think they used whenever you would see it like written out, it would say like 1,894, like, you know, in older, you know, books and historical stuff. That means depending on the copy of the book 1984, you get, it could have 1984 written out. Yeah, right, right. Instead of num, yeah, sure. That's a creepy ass book, by the way, if you've never read it, woof, woof. Hey, we're heading that direction. It's good times. But I digress. We have already done that quite a few times since we started recording. People exit out already and they're like, no, no, no, no. Thanks. Move on. Move on. Find something else. So yeah, 2011, 2011, whatever you want to call it, I was thinking, I was like, okay, we, we don't do the 2010s as frequently because audiences don't tend to listen to those episodes as much. Surprisingly, I guess it's because it, it doesn't, it doesn't feel long enough to go to feel nostalgic. I think it still feels very like, I don't know, I just, I was just there, you know, like it wasn't long enough ago. Yeah, I guess that's, see, that's weird because for whatever reason, and I think some of it had to do with just my, my finances, and then the, the availability of music in the 2010s was so much easier than in years past. I was paying a lot closer attention to stuff that was going on. Of course, then again, I did not have, you know, elementary school age children either that I was raising. So that helped. But yeah, I don't, I don't get the, the not looking at the 2010s, especially the early 2010s. I mean, at this point, it was like 14 years ago, 13 years ago. But it, it's also, it's that time frame that people realize they're like, Oh my God, that was that long ago. Yeah. And it gets depressing. Yeah, it's funny doing the show as the way we have, I don't tend to get that like, Oh my God, this was 20 years ago, because I'm constantly looking at things that were 20, 30, 40 years ago, all the time. So like, I have a pretty good frame of reference now when things came out. But I will hit stuff, the stuff that's like 15 years ago, that's where I'm like, that was 15 years ago. Like that's the stuff that I'm actually feeling that like, Oh, time has, you know, has passed. Yeah, because it's not quite to that big anniversary date yet. So that makes sense. Yeah. So with this year, we have previously covered it a handful of times. And as far back, let's see, let's go back. It's episode 235. We did AJJ's knife man. And then in episode 135, we discussed John Moreland and the Dust Bowl souls, everything the hard way, which hey, that was sponsored by you. Yeah, it was $10. Well spent. That's a great album. It is. We were talking about it right beforehand. And I was just like, man, this record, that record is so good. Yes. Yeah. And it was funny when I was looking at the year, I was like, Oh, we could talk about that. Oh, wait a minute. We already did that. Episode 103, we covered diarrhea planets loose jewels with a hoagie from the band Sunny Falls. Jesus, but that's a gross name just all around. Yeah. Oh, I was definitely weird band. I would hope so. I mean, it also doesn't really sound like what you think it would sound like. Like it's got a very like, 70s, kind of like thin, lizzy party rock sort of feel to it. It's surprising record. Admittedly, I have with a name, diarrhea, whatever the fuck. I mean, no idea what that is should or would sound like that just is. Of course, it's the combination of diarrhea and the band name. And then was it loose in the loose jewels. Loose jewel. Good times. And then way back in episode 21, we covered restoration's LP number one, along with, this is back in our album and EP days, we did the split EP between sprainerd and sundials. So yeah, long time ago, 2019, many years ago, but so yeah, we've hit 2011 a few times and I guess before we get into the overall year or even our album we're talking about today, we should talk about the albums that we each selected as our options as what we were considering to talk about. So do you want to go first? Actually, I'm very curious when for you, like 2011, like what was the first thing that just popped into your head? I want to talk about this. Let's see, I guess. Well, let me look at my list because it's pretty much, I'm not really good at like knowing exactly what I might want to talk about the year without looking at a huge list of everything. But one of the first things that I thought of that I was like, oh yes, I want to talk about this record very much so. It is the condition by the man's summer vacation. And this is a great way to plug the Patreon, but I just did a bonus audio over there for the comps that made us on a compilation record called I Think We Should Stay Away From Each Other by Lauren Records. And one of the bands on that compilation is the band's summer vacation. So I got in there and I was talking about, you know, how much I enjoyed this band. And they released their loan LP in 2011. And at the time, I think it came out, it came out in like November. It was like a real late in the year record. And it was one of those ones where I was like, this would be my number one album of the year, if it came out maybe a couple months earlier. I think I left it at like number two, just because I was like, I need more time with it to really, really feel like, you know, I could put it at number one. Now in the year since, would you, would you now consider it your favorite record of the year 2011? I would actually, yeah, because I want to say I maybe said that the AJJ record was probably my favorite at the time. But that, their discography is like not as fun as it used to be. So I'm kind of like, I'm not going to say that that I like turned on them or anything like that. But like later records that I didn't enjoy quite as much like kind of like took away some of the shine of the records I did still really like. But yeah, I do think, I do think that that summer vacation record is still my favorite album of that year now, especially since I guess the only record they did. I'd say I've never heard of them. So, and I have never gotten into the AJJ. I saw them a part of their set the first time I saw Frank Turner, they were opening up. And I was not impressed. And in fact, the whole time, I was just like, can you guys please get off the stage? And it was, I was just two dudes, one dude with acoustic guitar and the other one with a standup bass. And I was like, yeah, I'm not feeling any of this. That's funny, because that's like the best version of the band too, because they have like a full band that they do too. But they started with just the bass and guitar, the two of them. And to me, that's still their best stuff. Yeah, but it's funny. It's funny when like what hits people, you know? Yes. Yeah. So when, because I'm a big nerd, I have two points of reference for a decent chunk of years. One, I've got my silly blog, where I go back and look at my best of lists I made at the time. But I also have a Google doc that has a my favorite albums for every year I've been alive. Why do this stupid project? I don't know. This is a living document. So it does change. And it typically reflects my, I'm like, okay, these are my current. This is what over the test of time has stood for me for a particular year. And 2011 was a year that the number one album stayed the same, but a lot of other stuff changed for me. But yeah, so I guess an answer my own question. The first thing I thought of was England Keep My Bones by Frank Turner, because it's one of my favorite records of all time. And I'm just a big Frank Turner mark. So that was kind of his breakthrough record, right, for the US? It really was. It was it was the one where the next year in 2012, he performed at the Olympics in London. He that's the album that the song I still believe comes from. You know, technically, it was released on an EP prior, but it's known for that album. Yeah, that's really that was his first big, you know, as big as he's gotten album. And then the next one was his major label debut, and then it kind of went from there. And that major label debut was his peak as far as mainstream popularity is concerned. Yeah, I guess I don't know that I realized he played the Olympics. Opening ceremony. They did I still believe. That's wow. In real. Yeah, I do know one of the bands on my list, the band British Sea Power, who now go just by the name Sea Power, they released a record that you're called Valhalla Dancehall. But a couple years prior, they had released a song called Waving Flags that was like used in Olympic footage as well. Like it was like also used. That's funny. There's a there's a little bit of Olympics tie in there going on. Nice. Yeah, so I guess I'll kind of just talk real quickly about a few of the other records that I've sent to you. So my primary list also included resolutions by Dave Haas, the dangers of standing still, which is the full length debut of Red City Radio, Oklahoma City's own covering ground by Chuck Reagan, though that's not the Chuck Reagan album in my opinion. And then dancing underneath the moonlight by the Hudson Falcons, which is a great record, but that is not the album I would use to introduce someone to the band. And then I had some others here under protest from Swing and Utters, the copyrights North Sentinel Island, the candy hearts album, everything's amazing and nobody's happy and noise by numbers over Levitt. And then the other album that we both had on our list, which was trips by Sam. I am. Yeah, when I was going through the list, I was like, I really love that Sam I am record. That was their comeback album, a band who now has two comeback albums, because then they waited over a decade to follow that record up with one last year. So it's very rare when bands have multiple comeback albums in their span. It is now and they were an album. So in real time, I had that as my number two album of 2011. And other than the song 80 West, which I think is just a nearly perfect song, I had not gone back to that record really since. So that's one that just dropped off a cliff for me. It's one I come back to pretty frequently, honestly. I think it's, I think it's one of their best records period. I don't know if that's a hot take or not. It's, but I don't know, just something about that record when it came out. I looked, I lashed onto it immediately. It helped. I probably got to see them that year too. So kind of like cemented that, but it's still like to this day, I say it's like my number, depending on the day, it might be my favorite Sam I am record, but it's between like that, a stray and clumsy. Like those feel like my, my favorite Sam I am records, but yeah, Sam I am is one of those bands. Every time I listen to I'm like, oh yeah, these guys are really good. And I just have not taken the time to really sit down and engage and dig into their, their discography. I need to at some point. Sounds to me like they are perfect, perfect fodder for episode of one band five songs. I already have like a playlist set up. So I do kind of have some songs picked out. What were some of the other bands that you had on your list? So I had an interesting batch of records. I, I could have gone with some bigger stuff, but going through it as like the records I just really liked from that year, where the slightly more left of center, the slightly less known records, but I really love the aficionado self title record that came out that year that band put that record out. It was amazing. They did like a seven inch after that. And then they're like, all right, we're done. I have no idea who that is. Very short lift. Like I think they're on top shelf records at the time, kind of emo. I think people compared them like cursive, but I don't like cursive, but I love this band. So I don't, I don't know if that's the best example, but confession time. I've never listened to cursive. I, I don't know if you would like them. They, I don't like them, but that doesn't mean that just because I don't like them. You won't, but there's, they're very like dramatic band. Like they're, they have like concept albums and. So, okay, are they dramatic in a hoity-toity kind of way, or in like I'm in drama club kind of way? It feels much more drama club to me. Interesting. Okay. It's very, but is it, okay, is it more D and D dramatic or guys and dolls dramatic? I don't know. We're doing jazz hands here or we slang works. Nah, we're not doing jazz hands, but they don't, they don't even seem cool enough to be slang works. Like it feels like somewhere like in between, like I don't know where they would describe it. It's very like, I want to say like my chemical romance more than like cohesed in Cambria. Like, a little bit more like personal drama, that kind of thing. Like they have a record called like Domestika, which is like about a breakup, I think. And it's like, I don't know how you did a whole album about a breakup, but it's annoying. They're very arty too. It's like emo and arty. That's kind of how okay. Yeah, I think I'll avoid that. Thanks. Thanks for describing. I'm sure people will be like, well, you're crazy. Oh, no, they're great. People love them. Critically acclaimed, beloved band. I saw them play like one of their best records from front to back and I did not like it. Okay. I have no qualms being a fan of the stuff that is not the critical darling or the most popular thing that's kind of become my emo in life. So what else do you have on this list? So I had a couple other ones. I really thought about Domesplitter by the band Direct Hit. And when that came out, yeah, I love the record. When it came out, they were like a high energy punk rock band with songs about monsters, you know, very, very horror-punk-y, but without being like a horror punk band. But and then I love that record at the time, but then hated everything they did after that. I do not like anything. They went like full concept band after that, like every record is a concept record and the concept of every record is atheism. And I don't understand like you were thinking about monsters on that one record. Why did you decide everything after that was strictly about atheism? Very odd pivot of that band. Fascinating. Yeah. I remember I wrote a review of Domesplitter at the time. I remember liking it. I think I wrote a review of some of their one of their other releases, but they were never a band I followed. I haven't listened to that record since probably I wrote the review 13 years ago. So yeah, I thought that would be an interesting one to talk about just because I also kind of moved away from that band too and stopped listening to them. So it'd be nice to kind of listen back to it to see how that album holds up and what I liked about them. But yeah, it's they're one of those bands that like like polar bear club where I was just like really liked the first stuff. But then after that, didn't like anything else that they did. That was a band that you know, shown bright for about 30 seconds and then disappeared. Wow. Yeah, they released a couple records and like nobody liked them. It was weird. It's weird when that happens when a band puts out one album that like just it's so good and everyone likes it and it's and then nothing lives up to it after that. And that's got to suck from the band's point of view. Yeah, that went to like he lost his voice, you know, and so he had like changed his singing style on like their what third LP or something like that, something that he wants to be able to talk to you know, like his grandkids or something. Yeah, right. Yeah. No, you must destroy your voice. Just to entertain us. Was there anything else on your list you wanted to mention? I figured I'll just throw this last one out. Bearable by the man time shares. We had John lead singer. Well, they have to take two singers in that band, but John Hernandez, he sings most of the most of the songs. We had him on the show a couple years ago to do a social distortion record. Yes, that was a great episode. I remember that. John's John is so great to talk to big wrestling fan. Part of the voices of wrestling kind of family of writers and contributors. He's like a writer for them and he's like co-hosted one of the observer ballot year episodes. So I was I was like, wait, my John Hernandez? Like, what's he doing on this show? Yeah, that bearable is is a good album. But to me, it's not the time share album thing I would want to talk about. Yeah, that record was in that they're from New York. And it's in that like iron sheet, Long Island style of punk. But everything they did after that is more like the heartland punk thing, like more gaslight, anthem, lane, Tom Petty ish, little string scene in there too. They got the twangy. And I love that stuff. I agree. I like that stuff more than bearable. But bearables are really fun record. Actually, we listened to it this week, just to just to hear it. And I was like, man, this record's good too. They coasted on that album for a couple years too. They like, they're one it was like the only album they had out for like five years. And they just like played forever just playing that same record. The one that came out afterwards, which is the one that was on side one dummy. And I can't remember the name of it. That's the one that I think that was the first thing I heard of theirs. And I love that record. That thing is great. Yeah, that's a fantastic record. I've honestly enjoyed everything I've heard of theirs. So yeah, nothing bad from them at all. No, no, no, do we want to look at the charts on rate your music at all? Because I did have a thought or some thoughts on one of the records that you made a slightly pithy comment about before we started recording. Yeah, so yeah, let's take a look at it. I might as well get a little bit out of here. So it is, as usual, we go to rate your music.com, go to the charts section, put it in punk, and then we look at what albums are considered punk or influenced by punk in some way whatsoever. And this website is weird. It is. And just for clarification, you pick the popular option and not the top option, because those can create drastically different charts. And like, if you do top, you get less results than if you do popular, because then popular just gives you everything, whereas top is like, I guess it's using a criteria to cut some stuff off. I think the difference is top is ranking by actual star ratings. Which one has the better overall star ratings? And popular is just by the number of ratings. So a record could have 15,000 one star reviews and could end up being number one in a year on this Adobe website. Yeah, which I always feel like popular also is showing you what people actually listen to. Well, somewhat, this website is also very populated by the type of Reddit style music nerd who likes a particular type of pretentious or more, I don't know, over, I don't know. Yeah, it's the kind of person that's going to put every single year, a sonic Keith record comes out. It's almost guaranteed to be in the top five. Or if there's a my bloody Valentine record out, it's going to be in the top five type of situation. It's it's, you know, the kind of people. Yeah, it's yeah. I mean, like what you like, but, you know, maybe a little shame. It's a little shame. I never understand the users of this website. I am amongst one of the users of this website. I am a patron of this website. I pay as a yearly fee because I can get more you get more charts and like deeper charts. And then you get like extra like genre tags and like secondary genre tags and you get like track rate. Like, you get some cool stuff if you're like a hyper specific nerd like I am. See, this is a whole new type of nerd level. They're like, so how much of a nerd are you? And you're like, I pay for rate your music.com. That's how much for nerd I am. That's a whole new level, sir. Yeah. Yeah. I think that tells you everything about me. I didn't realize it's such a like. You would think if they were charging people, they might make a site that doesn't look so old. It definitely like looks like a site from 2008. And I mean, that said, the interface is it works well. So yeah, if it's not broken, don't fuck with it. That chart, that chart is the only reason I'm here. Like, I actually used this website for a school project a semester or two ago. So yeah, it's I have I've become a fan of this and I'd never touched this thing until I started listening to your show. And I didn't know shit about it at all. And it was it took me a long time to figure I just had to use the damn thing. And yeah, now I'm in it relatively regularly. So thank you. I I go to it every single day. It's that it's that bad. Good friend, Corey, he told me one time he was like, I'm really worried about you guys. Because what are you going to do if this website ever goes away? And I was like, I don't know. I'm going to have to like try and offload as much data as I possibly can. So I could keep it. I know someone you could ask about running Python scripts. Yeah. So you see Brandon Thurston can help again hook you up. Yeah. Hey, Brandon, you know those scripts that you run on YouTube and cage match? Could you do that? Write me one for rate your music? That'd be great. So that I can just have the entire website on my own database? Yes. So what in so if we're looking at this first page, what stands out to you and for reference, the number one rated album of 2011 per the fine users of this website is the strokes angels. That is angels, not angles, right? It's angles, not angels. Jesus Christ. I can't read. Hey, I work in a library. You wanted a book about angels? No, I need a geometry book. That makes the the cover makes a lot more sense now. Strokes always in like the top five of this website too. If they put out a record that year, always in like the top five. That is a band where I was like, Hey, that one song's pretty cool. And that's kind of where I stopped with that band. Yeah, the song that sounds like American Girl. Right. Yeah. Just like, yeah, when they came out, it was like, remember the 70s? Like, yeah, we sure do. Yeah. And so number two, you were talking about what people were actually listening to. What is a John Mouse? Oh, you know, just some hypnagogic pop. What the hypnagogic is one of those terms that I'm always like, all right, let me read the definition of this word. Hypnagogic pop is a 21st century style that refracts the pop culture of past decades through surreal, low fidelity production and emulation of outdated media formats or equipment. What does that mean? Man, okay, that's some bullshit right there. That is, that is, I don't want to call my records lo-fi. I mean, you read this description in everything other than 21st century style. You're like, Oh, so Sabado. Basically, early guided by voices. I what, you know, okay, so some are kind of related to the situation. Not really. We're having a discussion at work the other day about this, this new relatively new genre of literature, air quotes that has become very popular called romantic. It's a combination of romance and fantasy. And my boss is telling me about it. I'm like, I'm looking at her, I'm like, you mean paranormal romance? That shit's been around for years. And she's like, well, and I had a discussion with another coworker and it's like, no, it's, it's more, it's more action with fairies than with, you know, vampires or werewolves. And I'm like, okay, wait, okay. So paranormal romance is people fucking werewolves. And romanticity is what, fairies fucking fairies. And they were like, no, maybe there is actual, someone showed me a cover of a book. And it's in a animal more prophesized. Wow. You know what we're doing? It's kind of human looking, but it's a dragon. And it's definitely your standard romantic book, you know, Harlequin esque cover with this chick laying all over this dragon, dude. And I'm looking at this. I'm like, that's bestiality. I mean, you are one step away from fucking a horse. And this genre is you were right, paranormal fantasy. When I worked at Barnes and Noble like 15 years ago, this was a very prominent genre. Like there are all sorts of these like fantasy, you know, romance novels that Laurel K. Hamilton made has made a career out of it. That Shannon Keenan lady, not the comedian who has a similar name. Charlene Harris, the TV, the book series that the TV show True Blood was based on. The same thing. What my question I have is the way that these things get catalogued in libraries. So some of them are in just standard adult fiction. And some of them are in science fiction. I'm like, okay, is there a ratio of vampire to fucking that's going on? I mean, right? How many times is penetration described? And it goes over here? What is happening? Does your library have the type of romance novels that are like graphic, graphically sexual in the romance section? We don't have a romance section. It's just fiction. It's just all an adult fiction. There used to be a couple of branches that had a separate romance section. But I think that just became too much of a pain to differentiate. But I mean, are you finding your barely bigger than a spiral notebook, Harlequin type books in our library system? Probably not. I mean, maybe. But there are definitely some books that I have read that are based of essentially romantic comedies that have a couple of very graphic scenes. I was reading this one listening to audiobook because I don't actually read called the nanny. And I run a book club. I actually run two book clubs at my branch. And I was like, oh, this would be really good. And then I got to this like one scene. And it, I'm not approved, man, at all. But I'm listening to this. I was like, Oh, damn. Oh, Jesus. I mean, it's going there. It was very detailed. And then, funnily enough, there was a book that I had us read that completely forgot there was a spicy scene in. And I was reading back to it and I got to that. I was like, Oh, God. Well, that'll be a topic for conversation. When I worked at Barnes and Noble, they have these romance novels in the section that they're just pornography. Like, it's just the in the written form, basically. They're they're the romance novels. They're not the trade paperback size. They're like this, not the trade, not the mass market size, but the romance novels that are like the more trade paperback side. Oh, yeah. And like, we'd get them and you you just like flip through it. And it's like every couple pages. It is the most graphic like sex scenes that I just every couple pages. There's just it's more like that. Yeah, it's porn hub on a page. It is. And I was always shocked. I was like, I never saw anybody buy them, which is, you know, always funny, too. But it's like, it's the kind of thing where like, Oh, it's just literature. It's like, no, this is pornography. This is not literature. And you know, people are buying them, but they're being sneaky about it. We're like hiding it between a couple of other things. I have a friend who his ex-wife would read a lot of of that kind of those kind of books. And they were at some family gathering or some shoe sitting reading. And someone was like, Oh, hey, what are you reading? And she goes, Oh, just some smart. And he was like, she actually was. It was. I would just want to just read that in a family gathering. I know that's like, I don't, that's just like, I don't understand going to a strip bar. And just it's like, what, why are you teasing yourself? It just doesn't seem. Wow, we have digressed. Yeah, feel free to edit all of this out. So, but back to the topic at hand, the record that you made a, a snide comment about, which is number three here on these punk album charts, which is wasting light by Foo Fighters. I'm going to make an argument that Foo Fighters are as much of a punk band as almost any other punk band out there. So especially this record, this is the one they literally made in their garage. Now, granted, Dave Girl's garage is amazing. And they have a pool, Bob Moll came and hung out, and it, this record is fantastic. It is quite possibly, it's probably my favorite Foo Fighters record. I like Foo Fighters a lot, but you listen to this, and then you go and listen to, I don't know, say the last 20 years worth of hot water music records, and tell me really, what's that, how different is it? Yeah, I just kind of picked a name randomly when I was initially making those little comments. And then I was like, oh, I mean, at least Dave Girl does actually have, you know, punk in his background and, and with Scream and then, and even Nirvana, you know, to a degree. So I was like, yeah, okay. And he's got like the sunny day real estate guys in his band early on. So it's like, well, he still has the sunny day real estate bass player. Right, right. He's got the dude who was in a whole bunch of different fat bands on guitar. He's got Pat Smear on other guitar. So it's, and you know, this time it was Taylor Hawkins was still around. And he was before, you know, being Foo Fighters, he was only a small set strummer. But as funny as that is, that guy could fucking play. Oh my God. Oh yeah, it's good. But yeah, seriously, this, I, I, I, this record was on my list that I sent. This is, this is a great record wasting light. It is, yeah, it's, go listen to it. If you never listened to it, all you know are the, the big Foo Fighter hits. Go listen to this album. It is really, really good. Is there anything else we really want to point out from this list? That's probably not. We've been talking for like 45 minutes. Yeah, I'm like, all right, here, let me do a bullet. Let me do a rapid fire. And I will just, just throw these out here, at least like the bigger names. So we have the choice man or self title record that year. We have ton of fights shed. We have blink when I need to use neighborhoods. Oh, you forgot Panda get the disco, sir. Oh yeah. Yeah. Panda disco vices and virtues. I don't really remember this one. I don't know if this is when they have they pivoted to full on pop band at this point. I don't know, man. I know the bachelor songs, songs for the bachelor, whatever the fuck where he's trying to be Freddie Mercury that was all over pop radio. And I love that song. I think it's a great song to shut up. It's great. But yeah, blink 182 neighbors. Yeah, we have bomb music industries vacation. Um, so this band, there's this band on here called the horrors. And I put that on my list when I sent you. And the only reason I even know who the fuck this band is, is there was an article about, about big music. And I've, I've become fascinated with this mini genre of, so I have really a genre. It's this tag that has gotten thrown on a bunch of bands. And it talked about the horrors as one of the modern big music bands. So I've never really heard them really thought of that way. But I also, I guess I just took their name and it was like, they're kind of got you, right? I don't think they're supposed to be got the at all. It just feels like there is got to be got. Yeah, I mean, there's a fucked up record as a rise against record front bars. Yeah, there's the wonder years. That was a good show. That rise against album is actually really good. Yeah, I don't know that one. This is like radio rock era rise against, I guess it's getting in that it was the second record with Zach Blair from Hagfish on guitar. And that's really when I came in and I was like, okay, I like this. Also, it has Chad price does the backing vocals on this. And if Chad price is on something, it gets an instantaneous listen for me because he was yes. But those feel like big ones. And I really do think we should get into the record we're talking about because I was like, I can't wait to talk about this album. And then we spend 45 minutes talking about everything but this record. Yeah, sorry. You know, we wound up starting earlier than we had initially planned. And I was like, this is great. I'll be able to finish early and go to bed at a reasonable time. And now I'm thinking, I don't think so. I think we're going to still go as long as we would have. Probably. It's fine. We're podcasters. We love talking, especially about music. Yes. All right. So let's get into the actual album we're talking about today. So we pulled the year 2011. I've said it different every time. Can I get get it right? But we are talking about Moscow penny ante by dead to me. I've said that the business plan. So to the other to follow me. The play on a girl that the pain of being brings. Because I get low. Because there really mean that. So it's washing it away. The rush and the start to death. And a couple of stats on the band. So dead to me from San Francisco, California. They formed in the year 2003. They released this record October 25th, 2011 on fat records. And this is the band's third full length album. The person on this record is Ian Anderson on drums. Ken Yamazaki on guitar. Sam Johnson on guitar and vocals and chicken aka Tyson. Oh boy. And a chorico close enough on bass and vocals. Let's call him chicken from now on. It dawned on me. Like I was like, I'd read the name Tyson a couple times, but it wasn't until like maybe like the fifth or six time. I read that his name was Tyson that I was like, Oh, that's why he's called chicken. Oh, Tyson chicken. Oh, I didn't get it until you were just starting explaining it. That's amazing. The record was recorded at Atlas sound in Chicago. And the album is engineered not produced by Justin Yates and Matt Allison, who both worked on the copyrights album north and Rhode Island that came out in 2011. Great album. So this is the third full length from dead to me. And it's also with their third other lead singer. Yeah. So when the band formed with chicken and I'm pretty sure Ian was the original drummer, Erno, it was, yeah, and Brandon Pollack, who had been in one man army, was also in the band. And he calls up his good friend, Jack Darable from one man army and says, Hey, Jack, you should come, I think you like this chicken dude, you should come hang out and play. And it was fucking magic. And so they recorded an album and Brandon left. So they recorded Cuban bowel arena, their debut comes out in 2006. And then they record an EP called Little Brother, came out in 2008. And then Jack had a kid and went and decided, Hey, I need to be a dad and bounce. So their their second album, African elephants, they get this guy named Nathan Greis to jump in on vocals. And then he only lasted the one album. And then they got, what was his name again? We got Sam Johnson. Sam, yes. He came in for Moscow, Penny Antey. Wow, that's actually kind of hard to say. And he was also on the wait for EP, which is a really good little three song EP. And so what's your history with that to me? Oh, well, I, well, first off, I'm so not used to someone else doing the heavy lifting as far as background of stats on me. Sorry, I just kind of started, I took over it here for a minute. Not bad. It's funny. Dylan doesn't listen to podcasts. He'll never hear this. But I was telling you beforehand, I was like, Dylan doesn't take notes for the show. He doesn't really ever do research. And I think he only listens to an album once. And I'm like, I told you, I was like, I couldn't do it. I have to listen to the album at least three times. I have to take extensive notes on my thoughts and like what I want to talk about about the record of the band. And yeah, research as much as I can. And it's just very funny that like me and Dylan have completely different approaches to the show. And yet Dylan always says it's my show. And I'm kind of like, I think it is my show. I think I do. Way more work than he does. He just shows up for the party. Yeah, he's just there to look good. I mean, I, he's so good at talking about music that it's like, man, you can talk about music like an album like that after only listening to it, you know, once in preparation for the show. But then he'll go and listen to like nine napalm death albums to go along with the record that we're talking about there. So what's his heart? So yeah, history with a dead to me. I was introduced to this band by a friend of the show, Grant from Bittermelty Records. When we started hanging out, I, he really introduced me to a lot of different like punk and hardcore that I wasn't listening to yet because I was still very much in the like 2000s metal core was kind of my thing. And then like getting into like metal, you know, black metal and like drone and doom and stuff like that. So he was like a really good, good introduction to so many different like punk bands for me. So he gave me a copy of both given ballerina and little brother. And I just fell in love with them instantly. Like I was like hooked. They were such good records. Like there's still all time favorite albums for me. The, the magic of Jack and chicken, both of their voices on the records is incredible. Like so, so good. And I remember being, remember when the news broke that Jack was leaving because it was like, you know, he just had a kid and he wanted to go, you know, be it a dad and also to like focus on being in swing and others full time, which was a little bit more, taking up a little bit more time than dead to me was. So actually, I think if I remember correctly, he, that was him joining swinging others was a little bit later after he, he left dead to me. You know, I think you're right. And I remember, I was reading the Wikipedia article and it said that. And I'm still like, and you think I would or no to not trust everything that's on Wikipedia, but I was still like, is that right? I don't know. So I repeated it like a fool. But because I remember too, I thought my memory was he joined swing noters later. And that was like him like dipping his toes back into like playing in bands. See, man, that's what my memory tells me. Don't trust the internet, man. Giving me wrong facts. And yeah, but uh, so yeah. Anyway, the news comes out that he's like leaving the band. And I remember being so sad. I was like, oh, no, he's leaving. And like, I didn't know who's going to replace him. They had apparently added, this is from that same Wikipedia article. So this might be bullshit too. But they had apparently added Nathan as a second guitarist of the band already before Jack decided to leave. And so that he then shifts over to be the lead co lead singer on African elephants. And I remember when that record came out, I was excited for it. I was like, hell yeah, new, new dead to me is coming out. And it came out. And I was severely disappointed with that record. And looking back on it now, I think it's just, I was just disappointed that Jack wasn't there anymore. And my mind was like rejecting this new version of the band and like this new guy singing because I really listened to this album this week. And I was like, this record is really good. I don't know why I disliked it so much at the time. So I got to see them play it fast with that lineup of the band with Nathan and chicken. Oh, nice. They played. This is really cool. They played a like after show. They did like this after show in a warehouse in Gainesville. And we saw, I saw the casting out in there. And that was Nate Gray from Boy sets fires like band after Boy sets fire. And I remember, we're standing there watching this band play. And I just turned to Grant and I'm like, this guy sounds a lot like Nate from Boy sets fire. And then I go home and look it up and like, oh, it was him. Like, I was, did not know he had a new band. But it was like them. And then like, arms aloft, I think played there. Another good man. And Camadre played their new, their refused cover set. And a couple of the bands played too, but dead to me played as well. And that's where they played. And there's actually video footage of the last two songs of that, that set on YouTube. And I was watching it. And I'm like, oh, you can see me because I'm standing right behind Chicken's amp. Oh, nice. Because it was just like, it's a flat room. So like, it was swarmed. But the back of the warehouse door, like the garage door was open. So that's where the bands loaded in. And so they just left it open. And people could kind of come from behind to watch the band from behind. So they're literally surrounded by people. And they played like one song off of African elephant. And then they did buy the throat as the last song. When they do buy the throat, the band has no room at all. People are literally falling over top of them as they're playing that song. And you can see me right behind Chicken and the drummer, just like singing along to buy the throat. That's a great song. Yeah, so my history with dead to me is I was there day one. But that's because I was a one man army fan going back to before they even had their first full length album out. I discovered them through a chapter 11 records seven inch that had four different bands on it. And one of them was one man army. And I was like, Oh, this band's great. It sounds kind of like if swingin' others were a three piece. And that's a lot what their first album kind of sounds like. And then they grow developed after that. And so when that band called it quits, I was really bummed. And when I heard that, you know, Jack had this new band dead to me. And it was funny at first Cuba. It took me a little while to get into Cuban Valorina because there is definitely a difference in the sound of that last one man army release, which was the split with alkaline trio and then going into Cuban Valorina. And that's because, you know, chicken is writing half the stuff. And so it took me a little while. But when I got it, I was like, Oh, fuck. Yeah, this is amazing. It's my second favorite record of the 2000s. So it's just incredible. And I got it. I got the little brother EP when it came out. And then like you, I heard the news that Jack was leaving and I was super bummed. I also met Jack once when one man army played a record store in Oklahoma City. And I interviewed the band after the show for a zine I was doing at the time. And that interview never, never saw the light of day. But my God, they were the sweetest people. He was just an absolute sweetheart. So Neil's to say when as someone who's a dad, when I found out he was like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to, I have to step away from this bandits because I need to be concentrating being a dad. Like, okay, I already loved you. And now I love you even more. So yeah, and like you, African elephants comes out and I'm like, wait a minute, what's happening here? And I liked it. And then when the record that we're really focusing on, even though this is probably going to end up just us talking about the band in general, I have a feeling. But when Moscow, Penney, Andy came out, I listened to it, I was like, okay, this is more, this is more classic dead to me. It's, I hate to say it's, we have dead to me at home. But it's, and I don't mean that in an insulting way. Because African elephants, there was definitely, you could tell Nathan brought something different to the table as a songwriter. And both of these records are one for years. I just would skip over, especially when Jack rejoined the band. And they put out the, I want to die in Los Angeles EP, because that was one of those, you know, heaven's opening up. And it was just everything came back and you're like, Oh my God, these two people need to only write music together. Because it was, and actually I don't believe that because Jack is great and toy to cut to our, he's great one man, or in a swing and others. But there's something special when he and chicken get together and write songs. But all this being said, I think that for years, African elephants and Moscow, Panani, have gotten a bad rap. And the reality is, is they're both great records. I mean, they're really good. I listened to their entire discography a couple times since you have, since you told me we were going to do this, and we depict this record. And honestly, this year, I'd really listened to the whole discography anyway. And it's not long. It's like, I've got a Spotify playlist as everything that's on Spotify, which is missing a couple things. But it's like two hours. That is a, that's not a lot. So you can listen to it pretty easily. And the whole thing's really good. Yeah, I remember when, so like, I think there was a little backlash to African elephants outside of maybe just like you and I, and like the other people we know who would be into them. I do think the general consensus was, man, it's not as good. Like it was immediately people were just like, ah, not the same. And I think even chicken acknowledges this too, because in, I read a couple interviews around this time right before this record came out, where he was saying like, you know, we tried a lot of different stuff. We got really experimental on African elephants. And I don't necessarily think it was necessarily all that experimental. I just think that they leaned into a little bit more of a reggae clash kind of thing with that record. Yes, it was almost like, Sananista mask. And like, I think it's just, it was too different, I think. And because they don't, they didn't really do that kind of music at all before. And so, yeah, I think people then were like, eh, not as good. And I remember when it was announced that like, okay, this guy's leaving, and we're getting two new people into the band. So we're getting Ken, who was chickens, bandmates in both enemy you and Western settings. Western addiction. Western addiction, right? Yeah, I made that mistake. When I had Steve on my show, so. Western, who is Western? There is a Western settings. There's another band. Yes. Western settings is very much in the vein of New Junk City, iron cheeky, red city or radio type of stuff. Yeah. Very excellent band. Western addiction, I listened to because, oh, hey, it's the dudes from dead to me. And I was like, nope. I could not get into this at all. It's like, what do you call it? It's like that, I guess it's a type of melodic hardcore, but it's like, it's like that really fast kind of hardcore punk that's like, not that catchy and it's just kind of aggro in general. And it's not a style that I gravitate towards very often. And the other new addition to the band, Sam Johnson, he was in a band called New Mexican disaster squad, who also do a similar thing to Western addiction. It's very like, it's fast. It's kind of thrashies. Like, New Mexican disaster squad has a little bit more of like a painted black kid dynamite type thing going on. But it also is just like a little different. And it's just like, it's not what I want from those guys. But I do remember being excited that, you know, we're getting another lineup. And I know everyone, most of my friends were like really excited this album was coming out. And when it came out, I think we all were like, this is really good. This is much more like older, older dead to me. And but ultimately, this record kind of like faded to the background for me. Because I think it was the same problem. It was like, yeah, it's more like the other, the first record, but it's still not Jack. Like, I think Jack is the magic key that kind of like makes this band work at its peak form. Because chicken songs, the songs that's chicken sings on all these records are all great. They're all good. All the chicken songs are still good. It's that like extra voice. That being said, the Samsung songs on this record are really fun and really good. And I definitely was underrating them at the time. I agree. I think it's there's something just very special when Jack and chicken are doing songs together. They have a just a special magic chemistry. And it's the most egregious sins that African elephants and Moscow, Penny Andy have against them is that Jack doesn't play on them. And that is honestly, if you if you listen to them as objectively as possible, and if this is a style of music you like, and even if you like say to yourself, okay, I'm going to pretend this is a brand new band I've never heard of. I don't have any of the baggage you put this on. And if you're someone who likes Cuban ballerina and like the other dead to me records, you will probably love both of these albums. It's that baggage of no Jack, which is a bummer because it they're really good records. But I say that. And then as soon as Jack comes back in the band and like the five songs that have come out since when he came back are all so good. And I hate to say it, but so much better than these two other albums as as these are good albums to be wrong. But damn, it's it's that it's that extra special something that's just missing. Which even like as much as I love toy guitar, like I love toy guitar, they're great. Even it is missing the magic of chicken. Like I listen to those records and I'm like, these songs will be a little better if chicken was in here too. Like it's it's funny how these two have kind of like found each other through the years. They really have. It's see to me listening to to toy guitar. In a lot of ways, I hear that band to me is closer to one man army. And what one man army was going towards? Because if you the very last one man army release, which came out in three? No, it was it was they got back together and they didn't. And hold on, I've got I can tell you in just a second. I came out in 2012 and it's called She's an Alarm. And the thing is there is a toy guitar song called She's an Alarm from their first EP, which came out on Adeline Records, which is the label that the one man army EP came out on, which is a label that is no longer in existence. So you can't get it. So to me, what toy guitar is is the extension of what I think the direction one man army was going. So for me listening to that and like you, I love toy guitar. I think it's great, but it is missing. And I always pronounce his name wrong, haiko. He was the base player for one man army. He was the replacement, but he he and Jack were were the glue to that band. And so with toy guitar, I'm like, okay, we're kind of missing him. Interestingly enough, toy guitar has a a song on their last record that they put out moves like, you know, move like a ghost called Turn It Around, which is a song about haiko when and his passing. There's a song on the very last swing and others record called it's hlk. It's three letters. I want to say it's hlk, hls or something. Can't believe I'm forgetting this. It's basically it's it and turn it around. We're kind of written at the same time and they're they're two parts of the same song, so to speak. And it's a song Jack sings and it's it's the last song in that album. It's fucking incredible. One of the best things he's ever been a part of. So as I went way too deep into Jack's other projects. (Music) (Music) what are some of your favorite songs on Moscow, Penayani? So this record, we listened to it. You know, I was like, definitely reevaluating it and thinking like, okay, yeah, didn't give this a fair shot when it came. Well, I I was excited for it and I like wanted to love it. And I did like it at the time, but it didn't stick with me. And there was a one that I ever came. I didn't come back to it very often. So re revisiting it for this. There are a couple songs on here that I'm just like, excellent, excellent tunes. My probably my favorite song on the whole record is "No Lullabies", which is oddly a Samsung. That's a great one. It has a it I don't know if it directly borrows a riff from the Cox bar classic we're coming back, but man, if they had if they never did that as a medley, then someone lost the plot. That was that should have been done. Should we need a no lullabies? We're coming back mashup. Someone make that happen, please. Other really stand out songs for me. I really like the Trials of Oscar Wild, which is like right after no lullabies. That's a chicken song, just a great chorus on that. I really like the Monarch Hotel. Like there's that string it goes from like no lullabies through the Monarch Hotel. I even never relief. I just really like that string a lot. Reckless behavior is another like really stand out song. It's another Samsung. Like that's the thing about this record, like especially for African elephants, the Samsung's on here are really, really good. And it's funny because like the type of vocals that he did in New Mexican is Astro Squad are like hardcore vocals, like yelled hardcore vocals and not nearly a song. And so like this showed like a different side of him. And I guess maybe he's been kind of holding on to some melodies that have been kicking around for a while and finally had an outlet for them. I saw this lineup of the band in Oklahoma City and they were great and they did don't lie and Sam sang it and it was just fantastic. And the place went bonkers. Yeah, I realized, you know, doing the research on this. I've seen all three lineups of dead to me. So I saw the Nate lineup at that fest that I mentioned and then I saw this lineup with Sam and Ken. I saw them playing Charlotte. It was that tour they did with off with their heads where they did that three way split with like riverboat gamblers too. I saw them do that. That was one of those shows too. It was it was a combined show. It was like two touring sets, like just conversion to the same show. And I want to say this show was it was off of their heads and dead to me. But also the men'sagers. I'm blanking on dear landlord. And who's the other one? I'm blanking on it. But it was it was just like one of the most like stack shows I'd ever I'd ever been to. Wow. Yeah, it was a wild it was a wild show. How do you even how do you decide who's headlining that? I think other heads played last. They were the headliner, but then I think the men's and jurors were second to last. Okay, I remember the arrival played to the arrival plan. And I remember because Patty from D four is in the arrival. He plays based in that band and off of their heads had done that that picture disc where they covered two Cleveland bound death sentence songs on it. And I remember we they were like, we're going to do one of these Cleveland bound death sentence songs. And then everyone in the crowd started screaming for Patty, like Patty because Patty wasn't Cleveland bound death sentence. That was his his side project for Dylinger four. And so people were screaming for Patty to come sing that song with off with their heads. And like Ryan was like, it's probably outside talking about some obscure Japanese hardcore seven inches. And like, like my buddy like ran outside to try and find Patty. Like they were literally like, we have to get this to happen. Because when is the Cleveland bound death sentence ever going to be played with Patty? And no one could find him. No one knew where Patty was. And so they're like, I will just play the songs and they played them anyway. But it was just so fun. It was like, Oh my God, we're so close to having this. But yeah, yeah. Okay. So so why do you all put a J in the men's zingers name? I don't know. It's reading it mostly is really how like I've always I read it for years. And I think our whole group of friends never could say it right. We I think we all said men's injures, like the whole time. And it's zingers, right? Men's fingers. Yeah. I mean, it's literally men and then zingers is the name. It's two actual words put together. Yeah, I don't know why we're just like men's zingers. Like we can't say the I think it's the zinger part that's throwing us. It's really just men's zingers, which sounds very funny. It's a it's a it's a strange name. So speaking of tours that were just clusterfucks of a whole bunch of people who happen to be in town on the same night. I saw one of those once it was this was the lineup. Street dogs, throw rag, the briefs, and riverboat gamblers. And riverboat gamblers ended up headlining. But by the time they hit the stage, the whole crowd was like, Oh my God, I'm tired. Because every band it was just balls to the wall the entire time. And the whole time all the bands were like, I can't believe we're playing this show. This is amazing. It was God, it was great. That was a fun night. But you know, so I am working on doing a dead to me episode of one band five songs. It'll probably be next week as of when this recording hits, or maybe the same week. I don't know. Time is a flat circle or whatever the fuck it's called. But for I'm definitely leaning toward for the African elephants and Mosca Paniani picking a Nathan song and a Sam song. Because I think it's as great as the chicken songs on both of these records are, I think to know the story of this band, you need to hear those songs by those other singers. And to understand that they really both of them brought something really cool to the table. And yeah, it might not have been the super amazing cool thing that we all wanted. And we got back for a short period of time. But it was still something very fucking cool. It's like you said, no lullabies is a great song, never relief, I think is a phenomenal song. This is a band that to me, I, well, one with modern records and everything because of listening on Spotify and whatnot, I often forget song titles. And yeah, I'm a bad with song titles. Same. So with these records, often I listened, I just listened to the records. Like I have, like I said earlier, I just played this playlist of the entire discography. I start at, you know, Cuban ballerina hit, don't lie, listen all the way through to that newest, it was Fear at the New Bliss, I think is the most recent thing. Let me verify that one moment, please. No, would it kill you? And so I wasn't just all the way through. And one thing I think is fascinating with this band is, is even though there are these moments of change, it is still very much a complete unit. It's, it's not like a band, like say, and this is much larger discography, but no one in their right mind would listen to the entire Fleetwood Mac discography and not go, yeah, there's like 16 different bands in here. Yeah. But you listen to the Dead to Me discography. And even though, you know, there's some different singers in here, it's still a cohesive unit. This is one thing. And I think a lot of that is just chicken holding it all together. Yeah, it's funny, because I was thinking of that too, when I was doing my notes for this. And I was like, you know, every single one of these albums has different guitar players on them. You know, we have Jack on the first record and little brother. We've got Nate on African elephants, and we've got Sam and Ken on Moscow, Penny Annie, different guitar players on every single record. Chicken plays bass in the band. He's not a guitar player in the band. Yet there is a consistent sound from front to back. Now, I don't know, like, chicken write songs for the albums. I doubt he's writing them on the bass. So like, he's probably writing them on guitar and then just plays bass live. Yeah, probably. I don't know the writing process at all. Like, I have not seen anything about that, but it's shocking, you know, to have like four different guitar players, and they sound consistent, you know, from record to record. Yeah. So here, let's a fun, quick experiment thought process. Let's star rate this discography, because since we're using rate your music, which uses the Melter 5-star scale, let us start and give our star ratings from, we'll just we'll go in order of release. Sound cool? Yeah, that works. All right, Cuban ballerina, what do you give it? Five stars. Six in the Tokyo dome. Absolutely. Little brother. Five stars. Same. Yeah. African elephants. Three and a half. So I just actually, honestly, I just changed mine. I had it at three and a half for the longest time, and it is it's it's reached the notebook. It is now a four-star match. It is now a four-star right. I would give it maybe a 3.75, probably. But rate your music doesn't let you do quarter stars. It's just half stars, but yeah. Moscow, Penny Annie, what are you giving that one? I'm giving it a four. A good four. And I want to die in Los Angeles. I want to say, I'm gonna give that like a, I'm gonna say that's like a four and a half. It's just really short. I think it's my only complaint for it. See, that one to me is a five. I honestly, if I was going to put in order, like what I think is their best for my favorites, I would probably put I want to die in Los Angeles as their best record. Yes, it's only three songs, but it is so good. And I'm sure some of that is just the emotion of, I never thought this was going to happen. These guys are back. And it's while technically not a reunion album, it kind of is. And it is just as good, if not better, than the best stuff they ever did. So yeah, it's, I think my, I think it's their best, best release. Again, though, it's five stars, six in the Tokyo Dome. Yeah. And then, yeah, I got to see that version of the band too. I got to see them when Jack came back. So I got to see that version. It was at Fest. Oh, I've seen some footage of those sets. They play my heart. They played the main stage. It's like an outdoor stage. It was also like the middle of the day. Like the sun was out. And I was like, this isn't the optimal way to see a band, but they're still really good live. And then I took a guitar, played that Fest too. And we saw them play too. And they're really good, but. So yeah, I've seen all three lineups, thankfully. I actually pulled up the card, the card, the lineup of that. Of that. If you can't tell, folks, we are also professional wrestling fans. And this might make a certain Jason upset if we're throwing around to me wrestling terms. Look, brother, don't don't get hot. Don't get that. Yeah. Yeah. See what's going to be funny. He's going to hear us saying this dropping some wrestling terms. He's like, and his response is going to be, that don't work for me, brother. So the lineup, I had it wrong. It was off of their heads, dead to me, the riot before. I don't know if you remember that band. Dear landlord, the slow death. Oh, they were good. That's what Patty Patty was playing bass in the slow death at the time. And a Charlotte band called Callerman, who are actually really good band too. But yeah, it was a six band show. Exhausting. But yeah, yeah, I had to correct that. It wasn't the Minsinger. It was the slow death. Wow. That's still that's a boggers lineup. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, at what point does this show go from being a show to a festival? I mean, what's the number of bands? Yeah. I guess it's like the number of hours you're there maybe. I know. How long were you there? That sounds like a like a six, seven hour event. It's like you're at fucking Russell Manier or something. It was like, I probably started like usual like eight. It's probably like eight to 11, like a kind of a standard longer show, but like a standard show link. I mean, they're all punk bands. You know, nobody played like over 30 minutes. So that's that's part of it. Well, that's good. That's a I'm a firm believer. If you're an opening band, unless you're, you know, a big name opening band, you need to play, you know, 30 45 minutes utter max. And that means you are, like, that is you were Lucero opening for Frank Turner or something, you know, that you have to be that level. But if you were anything below that 30 minutes, get the fuck off the stage. You mentioned, they've both been mentioned now. But as an aside, did you notice that Lucero was opening for the Minsingers on this current tour that they're on? Oh, no, that'd be a great show to see. To me, I'm like, shouldn't Lucero be the headliner? But I don't know. It could be one of those shows where it's like you flip flop the headliner. But I don't think it is. I think it's just Minsingers are the headliners. Do they have a record or something out right now? And that might be part of it. Or like, it's an anniversary tour, maybe along those lines? No, that's a good question. I don't think either of them have a new release out right now. Right. I mean, I think both within the last year or two, they've both released stuff. I wonder, though, at this point, if the Minsingers aren't bigger commercially than Lucero. I mean, Lucero obviously has a longer running and a more legendary band. And actually, when I saw Frank Turner in Dallas in 2018, the lineup was Frank Turner, Lucero, the Minsingers, and the "Homeless Gospel Choir." So, yeah, it was absolutely reverse. That was an amazing show, but that was the show where Lucero played their brand new album front to back before it was released. Oh no, which record? It was one of the darker, super slower ones. And then they ended the set with, oh my god, one of their rockin' songs. And like the whole time, because there were tons of Lucero shirts in that crowd, because, you know, very similar audiences. And the whole time, people were just standing there like, "Uh-huh." And then they played the well-known song in place with just a rops. Yeah, that's a weird move. I mean, I guess that's a move you make when you're opening for someone else, maybe. And they're like, "When are we else? We're going to have this opportunity." You know? Oh, that's bold. That takes some balls right there. I mean, you are, of course, the whole time Ben's making shows. I'm not sure if we're going to do this, right? That was a terrible impression. I'm going to miss this. What up? I'm going to... He's a... That's his shtick. Have you noticed that? I don't know how many times you've seen Lucero live? That was the only time. Oh, I've seen him probably like, I don't know, six or seven times live. And that's kind of been shtick. He's like, "Oh, man, I'm not going to remember how this goes." So sometimes he doesn't remember how it goes, because he had too much whiskey on stage. But there are definitely times where like, he's like, "I'm going to mess this one up." He did a solo tour. It's like one of his bike riders tours. And he played, like, chain link fence. No. It might be the bike riders he played. That's actually a fairly like, faster-paced song. And like, he stopped in the middle of it because he forgot the lyrics. And he had to say it slowly to himself so he could remember how it goes. Or like, and get the audience to help him remember the lyrics to it. Okay, that's kind of amazing. I kind of love that. Oh, now I remember the song. The song they ended with was, "I can get us out of here," which is a fantastic song to show and to set with. Also kind of a deep cut in a set with, too. It's an interesting choice. Yeah, that's probably from probably my favorite record, "Rebel's Rugs and Sworn Brothers," which I know is also a not normally picked as favorite. Wow, words. Yeah, I know what you mean, though. It's like, yeah, I don't know what the exact word is either. I'm blanking on that one. Is that a gift with the parents to sing the same songs? Love asks, but don't you cry? Love ends are semi-gunned. I wrote this up for you. I'll sing it, too, so be out of use. I'll sing it again. I'll imagine if that silence ends, please. Break your soul, cigarette, holding your star tonight. Well, it's time to go to sleep when you're living on my street. And it's time to close your eyes when you know no love lies. So what are your final overall thoughts on Moscow, Peni and Andy? I think this is an excellent album that deserves more attention than I think it got. I do remember being fairly critically acclaimed at the time it came out. I think it was well-regarded. I remember seeing some reviews of it at the time, and even I think it showed up on some end-of-the-year lists. I feel like I saw that, too. So I think there were people who appreciated it this time. I think, yeah, I think for me personally, I just kind of put it on the back burner, because it just wound up not being what I wanted from dead to me. Like, I want the first two records. I want the Jack stuff the most. So, yeah, it's a good record that I definitely should spend more time with, honestly, because there's a lot of really good stuff on here. What about you? Honestly, I think the same thing. It's a record that has grown. My appreciation for has grown a lot over the years. And I think the fact that it doesn't get the same recognition that the other releases, that the Jack releases get is a shame. Honestly, I'll say that about both of these records. And there's a part in my head. I think of this band's career. I'm like, okay, I think you have the stuff with Jack and the stuff without Jack. And it's not super fair to make those divisions, especially with two records like African elephants and Mosca Penny Annie, which are definitely different records. But I think both of them deserve reappraisal. But yeah, I really, I think it's a great album. And I think anyone who has dismissed it over the years, if you go back and you listen to it with the idea of, okay, if this wasn't a band I already loved, what would I think about it? Which I forget, which podcast. Oh, it was someone on band's plane. I can't remember who it was. It was, I think it was a Pearl Jam episode, where he was talking about how when a new Pearl Jam record comes out, he tries to listen to it, thinking to himself, if this was a band that wasn't Pearl Jam, would I still like this? And I was like, that is a fantastic thought experiment to do when you're thinking about one of your favorite all-time bands, he put out a record and you're like, oh my god, this is amazing. And then just, but to stop and go, okay, if I didn't have all of this, you know, history and for lack of a term baggage with this artist, and I just heard this as something brand new, would I love it as much? And I think Mosca Penny Annie, if people did that experiment, would come away with a much higher opinion of the record than they possibly have right now. That's true, because that can work in both directions too, because a record comes out and it's a band you love and you have multiple records that you love. They put one out that maybe you don't like that much, or it's not as good as some of their other material. By being already a fan of that band, you have goodwill towards the band. And so you're like, I like it still, even though it's not the best record. Like, it's not their best material. Like, Lucero's a good example of that. The record they did not the newest one, but the one right before, the one like the planets on the cover, like sci-fi themed album or whatever that record was supposed to be. Oh, yeah. When that record came out, I was like, I like it. It's Lucero, I love Lucero. And then like, as the year went on, I'm like, I don't think I like this record very much. And I think if it wasn't a Lucero record, I would have said, I don't like this album. And so it could work the other way too, though, where it's like maybe they put something out that's different. But because it's, yeah, yeah. Like with this, when there's a lineup change or something like different has happened with the band. And because they kept that name lineage all the way through, you're like, ah, this isn't the same. This isn't what I want. You know, you made too many changes. And but if it was something like you just said, if you just heard this album as it's own, if they were just called, you know, a completely different band name, then, you know, would you like it more? And I think that's true. With this, I would probably like it more if it wasn't a dead to me record, if it was like a, like a morph as a New Mexican disaster squad record or, or a Western addiction record. What I am, I wanted to touch on this too, because they did the EP, I want to die in Los Angeles. And then they released like two singles after that in like 2018. And fairs the new bliss and would it kill you? Yet we've had two Western addiction albums in that time. And chickens in Western addiction still. But he's just like base in that band. He doesn't need vocals. And I always want to like those records more than I do. I don't love Western addiction. The last one I think is probably their best. But even then it's still not my favorite. But just thinking, do you think we'll get more dead to me at some point? I hope so. So I remember hearing somewhere that chicken had some health issues. And then I even came across and doing research a thread on Reddit. Someone basically saying, hey, whatever happened to dead to me, they had some momentum in 2018. What happened? And basically there were no answers. So I don't know. I do know like Western addiction is the type of hardcore punk that I don't like, which the older I get, the more I realize that outside of, you know, a lot of the very early stuff. And by that, I'm talking your minor threat seven seconds. And then the Gorilla Biscuits era, New York stuff. And pretty much just the Gorilla Biscuits stuff. Hardcore punk is not for me. A lot of it I hear I'm like, this sucks. So yeah, I don't know. I would love to hear some more. But that's like, are we going to get another swing and others record? I mean, these folks are all in their fifties at this point. They have families. They probably have, you know, children who are now adults. Jesus, think about that for a minute. And so who knows? I do know that the one time I saw swing and others was around the same time I saw dead to me and Jack was not there. So they just played as a four piece. So I'm not sure how much touring he does. And I don't know what their shoot jobs are. Because you know, at this point, all these guys have got to have day jobs. Right. So because, you know, if that's a good label to be on, but they're not making no effects money. Right. Yeah, I remember reading, I remember hearing. So okay, the last time I saw dead to me, it was at that fest. And on stage, chicken kind of like gave a little bit of a speech about people going or in recovery for substance abuse. The fest is kind of hard for people like that. And chicken was pretty much saying like, because he's a recovering addict. And I think fest was hard for him. Because he was like talking about like, if you're having, if you're struggling right now, if you're sober version, you're trying to like stay sober this weekend, you know, please come talk to me, you know. Like he was definitely trying to be a shoulder for a setting. You know, it's funny to think about like a music festival we think of. It's just like a really big fun thing. But like the amount of like drinking and like smoking and other illicit substances going on at festivals can be pretty tough for people in recovery. So like, it's very interesting to see that approach from like a weekend that's known for just being a big giant party where everybody's having fun. And then to have this like level of just like seriousness and just being like, hey, this is kind of a serious moment. And I remember hearing later, the chicken was also having issues like struggles with his own sobriety too. So and that dead to me kind of wasn't the best outlet for that. Like I think being in dead to me was more of a struggle for him than to just say like being in western addiction. So I don't, I'm hoping, you know, things are okay on that front with him. You know, maybe it's just yeah, they're just all fully busy people and just don't really have a lot of time, which you know, everybody. The way as you mentioned that it, that makes perfect sense. Cause you, when you listen to these records and when you listen to the lyrics, it's in so many ways these are therapy sessions and so on. I mean, there is so much about mental health going on about dealing with depression, dealing with a bunch of dark shit and which is something I have dealt with. And him having a awesomely fun downturn right now. So listening, I hear there's so much that I identify with in these songs. So I can see that if you are working really hard on trying to get your shit together. Here, let's go do this band where all we do is talk about how fucked up we are. That might not be what you want to focus on. Yeah. So as much as I would love to have more dead to me stuff, I would rather him be okay. Right. And if the way he is okay is just playing bass in the silly hardcore punk band and not doing writing these songs that are, you know, emotionally ripping your heart out and not nay, oh my God, I just got broken up with kind of way in like dealing with like real deep dark serious shit. I can see like in needing to step back, you know, I can't do this anymore. That makes perfect sense. So admittedly, I'm just like, could we please get a toy guitar record? Could we get another swing another record? I really would like another toy guitar record. Yeah, I would too. Yeah, I really like those records they did. I was thinking about today because I listened to here under protest this week as well. I was very prepared for this week's episode. I listened to all the side projects. And I listened to that record and I don't think Jack has a song on that record, but he does like the next one maybe, but I was just thinking is like, man, swingin' letters have three amazing singers in their band when Jack's around, you know, like between Jack and Darius and Michael? No, Johnny. Johnny. Yeah, Johnny's the primary singer. And when they did this record, they also had Spike Slauson still playing bass and he sang songs, he sang a number of songs over the years. That was like, could you get a few more great singers in your band? I mean, here's Spike Slauson is a sneakily, like legitimately great singer. Spike left, right? That's why Jack came in, like he's Spike's replacement. Oh, is he Darius's? No, no. Darius and Johnny are like, they are the core of, yeah, of swingin' letters. So originally the band was called Johnny P-Bucks and swingin' letters. And then Darius came in shortly after the band formed and it's Darius and Johnny are the main songwriters. The after the pink album came out, I want to say that Spike's first record is the one with the hand on the cover. Okay, five lessons learned. Thank you. Yeah. And at that point, yeah, I was, he fit right in and then they're after that. So they did that one and then they did the self-titled, which is the half-country album. And I think the entire reason why they started their side project, Filthy Thieving Bastards, my theory is people were like, why the fuck is our swingin' letters doing a country band? And they're like, oh, well, we'll just do those songs over here. Though, do you have the, did you have the live in a dive album that swingin' letters did? Oh, yeah. Oh. It's like a half Filthy Thieving Bastards. They do one song from the Filthy Thieving Bastards. I have all of those CDs from both bands. I have all the CDs from all of these bands, to be honest. Yeah. I love that live in a dive. That record's so much because they switch between electric and acoustic throughout that whole live show. And it's so fun to hear them do that. It is a phenomenal live album. And it's also a great, hey, I want to figure, I want to hear the swingin' letters band. Where should I start? And you can just hand them that and go here. But yeah, I'm looking at my review of Here Under Protest. And I'm not good at skimming, so I can't remember if Jack actually sang one of the songs or not. I don't think he did. No, I don't think so either. Oh, wait. No, he did. Effortless Amnesiac, which was another song. There were two songs on that record that were originally done by Revoltz. Which was another semi-related side project. It's a spike-led band, great fucking band. These bands, they're all like, we recorded the song over here, and now we're going to record it again over here. I love this swingin' letters family tree of related bands. And that to me is part of that. One-man army is part of that. It's a really huge spider web of bands, honestly. It really is. Yeah, I hope we get more from them. But yeah, like you said, if it's for the sake of chicken's mental health, to not do the band, it's okay. We don't need new. We have these records. These records are amazing. And they're not going anywhere, which is always my favorite retort to anyone who complains about like, oh, I can't believe they're re-banking this thing from my childhood. And it sucks now. And they ruined it. And it's like, yeah, but the old stuff's still there. And you can still enjoy it, you know? Exactly. Exactly. You can go and go back and listen to these three albums and easily accessible two EPs and two singles. And just remember, god damn, this band is fucking great. We maybe didn't appreciate the last little bit of stuff they did too, the way that we should have. Agreed. Yeah, I think it was one of those. There was a whole bunch of, oh my god, I can't believe they're back. And then, yeah, we didn't appreciate it. It was, we didn't know how good we had it. Well, I think I've said everything I really have left to say about this record. Really, we just talked about the band in general. Yeah, good luck with anyone who comes on the show to do a dead to me album later on. Yeah, right. It's like, well, what are we talking about now? Well, Dylan, you get Dylan's takes. That's true. That's true. We would need a guest. I think we need a guest and Dylan and then we could do it. We could do one because I did, that's right. I did two pair of more albums in like the same month because Dylan took a vacation for one and I had Adam Yoe and our guest that week, Angie. And then when Dylan came back and we covered the other pair more record, it was with Dylan and a lead singer of Cowboy Boy. So that's right. So we can do it dead to me again. And just, we just need a guest too. Yes. And I would, I would listen to the heck out of that. Well, we didn't really plug your podcast at the top of the show, like we should have as good podcasters. I should have been interviewing you and, you know, plugging away everything. But what's going on with 1 band 5 as long as it's the last time you're here, we have a Patreon now. For the moment, it basically functions as essentially a tip jar. I started a Patreon when I kind of decided to keep the show going because I was contemplating stopping and decide, no, I'm going to keep doing this. And because I had these ideas for bonus stuff. And then I decided, I started looking at like, okay, I'm putting in as much, if not more work into some of these bonus things, then I am to the main show. And not that a lot of people listen to my show anyway, because they don't, which is great because that's fine. I'm not doing it to become popular or anything like that, because who the fuck wants to know some middle-aged white guys opinions on obscure music? But I was like, you know, maybe I should just start adding this stuff to the main feed. So I'm slowly taking everything it's on the Patreon and putting it on the main feed. And my guess is eventually once I have all of that stuff on the main feed, that at some point, I'll probably sunset the Patreon. But I mean, right now, if you want to give me a dollar a month, great. I appreciate it. But you don't have to to listen. And the other thing is I'm setting all of the posts of public. So you don't even you just I think have to like have a Patreon account probably to listen or to access that stuff. But yeah, so I've now the most recent episode as of this recording was on Bad Religion and had our good friend Steve Long on the show. And then we also recorded a bonus, which is going to it just it just hit the Patreon this week. And next week, it'll go on the the main feed. In interview, I did with with him and like we didn't interview with you later on. I have this weird thing about the show is I other than dealing with dates of when stuff is released, like saying, Oh, hey, this new record came out. I very much want the episodes to be timeless. And so whenever I have someone on, I'd kind of make it a point right up front to tell people, okay, we're not chit chatting about shit. We're gonna get right into this. And yeah, we can go on tangents about stuff. That's that's fantastic. But our focus is the band and the songs and whatnot. And that's just for whatever reason. That's the way I like to have the show because I could open up show. Well, this week, I got really depressed at work and then found out my financial aid night not be going through for the semester. So I'm two classes away from getting my master's degree, but I might not be able to afford it. No, I don't fucking cares. No one wants to hear that. So none of that crap. Don't put any of that in there. If you want if you want to hear from sad, sack shit, you just go read my sub stack because that's me like that's therapy me typing out nonsense. Anywho. So yeah, I am I've got another guest lined up. The lead singer from River City Rebels is going to be on the show. And yeah, and so my plan is every time I have a guest on, if they have time and ask them, okay, after we record the main show, is it cool if we just record, you know, a regular interview where you talk about whatever shit you've got going on. And I've kind of but after having done the interview with you. And now with Steve, I have in my mind a place that where I'm always going to start, which is a question about someone's earliest musical memory. Yeah, and just kind of go from there. So that's kind of where that is. I really like that because I noticed you did it for Steve as well on his episode. And I was like, Oh, that's a really great way to just start the conversation because everyone's answer is probably going to be different or very wildly different, honestly, because people come to music, completely different ways, but and almost always through childhood too. So exactly. And I find that as I just I find that fascinating. I when I'm talking to people about music and it's not in the awkward, I'm at work kind of way. And which have actually so we have this intern who at the branch. And for the summer, we have two of them. But one of them is she's in middle school. And she's a sweetheart of a kid. But she was talking to me yesterday. And she was asking me like, What kind of music I listen to. And I'm just like inside, I'm crunching. I'm like, God damn it. I hate talking about this now. Oh my God, because it's so awkward. And I'm like, Okay, look, man, I'm not to be gatekeeper, because it's not a gatekeeper thing. It's just, I'm going to, if you really want my opinions, I'm going to name off a bunch of stuff you don't fucking know. And it's just going to be weird. So I ended up just turning it on. I kind of do some basic bullshit answer and then just turn it back on them and like, What do you like? Which that's a skill that has I think is serving me well with when I have people on that I can interview. And I will say, having Steve on the show recently, in doing that and putting the bonus interview together, I was like, This is so much less work. I need to have people on more often. This is great. You know, I keep telling Dylan, he needs to go on. And he told me he like knows who he wants to cover. I won't give it away now in case it actually happens one day, but and I was like, Do it. Like, he went and did Josh's podcast, spinning out Josh Robbins's podcast, and he, you know, gets it on that one, but he didn't like go anymore else. Like, that's where he stopped. It was just like, you can do more, do more interviews. I mean, he has a band to promote for Pete's sake. Right. And that's, that's like, so those bonus interviews, that's like, okay, that's where I want to hear about whatever projects you have going on. Yeah. And in the main episode, I will, you know, I'll, it's mentioned in like the title. And I, for at the end of the episode, I have my little outro blurb thing that I've got where it's the only point in the show that I actually give my own name. And in that, I'll say, you know, I'll say who I am and then say big, thanks to special guest, whoever the fuck. And here's the shit that they do. And here's a link. So that's where I put that stuff in. The way, the way you use it as fillers, just because you didn't really have an example to give, I like the way you said it. If you like changed your like tone and how you said that. And it sounds like, and we had, you know, whoever the fuck and whatever they got the shit to talk about, you know, like, it makes it sound like, like, who gives a shit who we're talking to right now. Yeah, that's what my dopey show is doing. Well, I love the show. I've encouraged you to do a patreon for a while now. And I'm glad you did launch it. And purely for selfish reasons, it's like, I want to hear more Dave Brown thoughts. Like, that's really it. I was like, you should, you should do more work for me, Dave. More free work. Yes. Dance for me. But no, I love hearing your takes on music and everything. You're a great person. So I really enjoy like listening to, you know, your thoughts and feelings on things. And so like, I'm always just like more Dave for me. That's how I took that patreon to be like. Well, that is very kind of you. I truly appreciate it. And that means a lot. So thank you. And now actually, just last time you're here, you can now get the podcast on all platforms. Yes, it is available on on the biggies. Normally, when I share it, I just share Spotify and Apple links, because I think that's where most people get their podcasts anymore. If there is a podcast app that it's not on that you use, holler at me, and I will try to figure out a way to get it on there. The, the hosting service I use generally makes it pretty easy to push it out to everything. Because it's on Amazon, it's on Audible, it's on pocket cast. I think that's one I actually use. It's, it should be on everything. Maybe not. I don't know if it's on Pandora. But I mean, who the fuck listens to podcast on Pandora? Who has a Pandora account in 2024? Man, as soon as that was something that that was that gateway, that was the America online of streaming. You know, that was the thing that got people used to the idea. And then when something better came along that you actually had control over, it was like, why, why would I fuck with this? I can listen to the radio at home. Anyway, I don't need, I love Pandora when it, when it first launched, because yeah, it was great. I found a lot of stuff that way, I think. I don't really remember now, but do you think it still works that way? Except it's podcast for him. It's like, all right, we're just going to play you something next. You know, I don't like it. I don't know. One of the, like the very first podcast I ever listened to is wrestling podcasts. It's called a Solomonster Sounds Off. Still listen to it. It's great. But I remember at some point, he got the show on Pandora and he, he was like, I've been working on this for a while. We finally got on Pandora. And so it was, he, at the time, it seemed like kind of a big deal. I don't know. The show, my shows on iHeartRadio for whatever that were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what is that? Can I get a job at iHeartRadio now? Is that what that means? But, yeah, no, that, that is what Clear Channel used to be. Yeah. It's, they renamed themselves. But like, it's just like, you got my podcast on your, it, it is weird when you think about it. You're like, why does my iHeart rate, are they always list, I don't not listening to it on there. So I don't even know, like, are you sticking stuff in there that I don't know about? So you make a little money off me or, I don't know what that, you know, that, that's a good question because there are, like, so for example, Steve's podcast radio on Friendly, I was listening to it. And I've noticed that when I listen to it, there's often a commercial at the beginning and sometimes just random commercials thrown in that are just not put in by him. And I'm like, oh, I bet the whoever hosts the show is throwing these commercials in here to what probably to help cover their expenses for offering podcast hosting because, you know, servers are not cheap. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I've seen my, our show on podcasts that are not reflected in my, my hosting service. So it's like, what is this podcast because it's not one that I have selected as where I distribute to and how do you have the newest episode? I'm guessing that just they get the hold of the, it pulls an RSS feed. Yeah, right. It's just, yeah, it's just taking RSS feeds then, right? Yeah, I think so, because like the main service I use anymore is pocket casts. And there's a lot of stuff I have to get an RSS feed because it just automatically doesn't populate in their service, but you get an RSS feed to put in there, boom, it works perfect. Yeah. So I guess that means my podcast has an RSS feed that's just public. I don't know how you tap into that, but a lot of, depending on where you're hosting on a lot of times on the, the, that site, it'll have a link for the RSS feed. It's like, it'll show you all the different icons of wherever you can get a show, and it'll have the RSS feed icon. But I mean, hey, if that means more people are getting access to your show, then that's a good thing. Yeah. Right. As long as it's all accurate and they're not putting weird stuff in there. True. Now that would, that would take, that, that kind of crap would take so much effort. Yeah. That's, that's one of those things that you hear people talking, and you're like, man, these people are out to get me. And it's like, you really think the shmo answering the phone when you're calling, you know, tech support for something has something against you, only if you're an asshole. Right. It usually starts out at a place of neutrality, where you don't have any feelings towards you might have mild annoyance that you have to like talk to them. But yeah, other than that, neutral. Exactly. Give me a reason to not like you. Exactly. Well, thank you for filling in for Dylan. Anytime we talk, we just, we go everywhere in every conversation, every direction. Sorry about that. We wrapped up this podcast about talking about RSS feeds. Good times. But thank you so much for helping out and doing the show with me. And you and I have talked about doing our own show together for a while now. And it's one of those things like one day, Dave, we'll get there. We'll do it one day. Let me, let me try to finish grad school. We're just like, let me get settled in. Yeah. I think we were, we had even set like, let's do it. Let's do it this month, like within the next month or so. And like, I don't think we even talked about it again after that. No, no, because then the daunting thing was like, Oh, shit, wait a minute. We have to go find this show and actually watch all the episodes. That's going to take a while. One day, one day when we have all the free time. Yeah, I don't, I don't foresee that ever in my future. We'll figure it out. We'll, we'll figure it out. We'll figure out a way to make it work. But worst case, worst case scenario, it is like a monthly or quarterly bonus thing that's on our feeds. Yeah. That, that, that was my thinking. I was like, it's actually like so much work that I'm like, I don't think you could put one of these out faster than a month at a month at a time. So probably not. All right. As we've cryptically discussed this in front of the guests, but thank you all so much for listening. You can follow us on all the all forms of social media at punklotopod, punklotopod@gmail.com 202 688 punk, our voicemail line. And we got a, we got a Patreon to patreon.com/punklotopod. We didn't play it up top like normal, but I think I snuck in that I, I, that's right. Oh, I just did a very seamless segue way. Yes, you did. So seamless that I forgot I did it. So speaking of the voicemail, I really, I need some Madball Mystery Collar. So Madball Mystery Collar, if you could, Johnny two toes or. Yeah. If you could come back, that would be amazing. I forget which one of those calls I was like crying. I was laughing so hard. It was, it was amazing. Well, I hope he hears this. And, because I was texting with him this week, actually, and I actually got a voicemail out of character, you know, the, the real persona behind Johnny three toes. So I got a voicemail from him this week, honestly, because he travels a lot for work. So, but, uh, yeah, hopefully this, this will make his day. And, uh, we love you, Mio. All right, everyone. Thank you all so much. And we will talk to you later. To order punk, call the number on your screen. Rush delivery is available. Remember, this special offer is not sold in stores.
