Creative Pep Talk
071 - You Are Infinite
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. - I was like, you know, push comes to shove. I'm gonna find a way to do this. (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, you're listening to the Creative Pep Talk podcast. This is the show about commercial art, finding the balance between thriving financially and creative fulfillment. It's pretty tough. I'm your host, Andy J. Miller. Illustration Age is our proud syndicate. You can find this show at illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk on SoundCloud and iTunes. Today, I'm launching a new poster inspired by this episode. The poster reads, "You Are Infinite," and that will make more sense after you listen to the rest of today's episode. By buying a poster, you're helping support the podcast. You can get it at Andy-J-Miller.com/ Shop. I'd super appreciate all the sales. It will help me spend more time and energy thinking about the show, doing the show, making the show fantastic. And I'm pretty proud of the poster. I'm actually stoked out of my mind about it. So go check that out, pick one of those up. Thank you guys. Let's get into the rest of the show. - Miro is a collaborative virtual workspace that syncs in real time for you and your team so that you can innovate an idea into an outcome seamlessly. We talk a lot on this show about the idea of how creative research shows that playing with the problem is essential to innovation. Now, when I think of play, I don't think of documents and email. So if your team is often working remote, you need something more dynamic and collaborative. I think that Miro's mind maps and flow charts where team members can edit and play in real time has a lot more capacity for innovation and playing with the problem than traditional ways of collaborating over the internet. Whether you work in innovation, product design, engineering, UX, agile, or IT, bring your teams to Miro's revolutionary innovation workspace and be faster from idea to outcome. Go to Miro.com to find out how that's M-I-R-O.com. (upbeat music) Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. (upbeat music) - You know, back when the world was considered to be flat and two-dimensional and everything was explored. Everything was known. We mapped out every inch and we knew where the horizon was. I got to believe that it changed human consciousness to think that way, to think that everything was small, everything was known and everything was done. And I think that it must have changed the way that people viewed life, like very simple and exact and expected. Today, we know we live in a universe that is ever expanding and infinite. Literally, this, the stars and the galaxies in the universe is pushing out into nothingness, into unexplored nothingness and it never stops and it never keeps getting bigger. And living in that world, that's got to change the way that we saw possibilities, the way that we saw our potential, the way we saw the potential of everything, the smallness that you can feel from living in a place like that, but understanding the depths of infinite, the depths of space and time. It changes the way that you view everything. I imagine going to the moon changed everything in human consciousness, the way that we saw our future, our possibilities. And I think now with technology, the way that it's growing, doing things that we never thought possible, the internet changed every possibility for humankind and it changed the way that we saw our potential. And I think now that in the world of technology and science, nothing's off the table, they're exploring teleportation, they're exploring artificial intelligence, nothing's off the table because we've seen how far we could come and we just convinced ourselves, there's really no edge to this. And when you see your potential as infinite and limitless, the possibilities, the way that your brain works is infinitely different. But when you see it as this very finite limited thing, you actually do less than you're capable of. Over the past five years, I've seen this play out in my own life. In fact, if you go back to episode 50, the small bit of advice that I give on that episode is about this idea that when you obsess and worry about your own potential, instead of focusing on what you really, really wanna do and putting in the work, you shoot yourself in the foot. Like I've found that if I'm constantly worried about whether this is meant to be, whether I'm cut out to do this thing, I never give my full effort because I'm always just dipping my toe in and seeing is this water for me, right? Kind of like a puzzle piece. Like if you see yourself as a finite resource, this thing, your intelligence, your abilities, your talent, it's all the stuff you were born with, it never grows, you're like a puzzle piece and you're constantly searching for the job or the market where you're gonna fit perfectly and you can't force a puzzle piece, right? It either fits or it doesn't. And I think if you see yourself like that, you're never up for a challenge because if it's a challenge, it means that it's the wrong fit. And actually, I have felt the pull of this discussion, this debate has been going on in my head for the past five years where I'm trying things that are stretching me, that are pushing me past my limits and I'm asking myself, either this is a great challenge, I need to be up for the challenge, I need to hit it hard, or it's not meant to be and I gotta go and I don't have the potential for this, which one is it, right? And so I'm doing this internal debate and I'm realizing that it's really about my mindset. And in fact, I had piqued my interest to that word and I heard someone talking about this book called "Mindset" on a different podcast than it and I thought that's exactly what I've been thinking about. So I went and checked it out. It's by Dr. Carol DeWeck. And she explores the world of mindset and she's actually done studies about the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset. Now the fixed mindset is the belief that you are born with your IQ, you're born with your potential, you're born with your strengths and weaknesses, you're born with your exact personality and all of these things do not change, they do not grow. Now the growth mindset believes that your IQ can develop through challenges. When you practice, you can get better, you can cultivate talent. And that talent really isn't the most important thing in success, that your social ability, that every component of who you are can grow and change. Now reading this was revolutionary because it gave words to the fight that I've been doing. I couldn't tell if I was doing an external fight or an internal fight or whether it was just completely crazy but it gave me words for this battle that was happening. And the studies found that if you have the fixed mindset, you are infinitely more likely to fail because effort to you means that you're not smart, it means that you're not cut out for it. If you try something new and it takes tons of effort, it means you don't have that much talent because if you were really good at it, if you were really talented, it would be super easy for you. So you give up, whereas people with the growth mindset, they see challenge as this is a worthy cause and I can expand into this thing and that's what life's all about. And so those people are infinitely more likely to succeed. And I think that this mindset plays out in the commercial arts all the time. Whether you believe that you either have it or you don't or you can cultivate it, whether you believe the most important thing is talent or the most important thing is hard work, dramatically changes the way that you approach problems. Because when you go out into a new market and you try something new and you hit a roadblock, if you think it's all about talent, you give up because you think you've explored that and it's not for you. But if you think it's all about hard work, you push harder, you push stronger and you break through. And nothing matters more than this question. Can you change? Can you grow or are you finite? Can you develop? Are you infinite? Do you have infinite potential? My dad has told me for years, you're infinitely more capable than you think. And I always kind of thought that that meant, you know, you could work a lot harder, like you could push yourself to limit. You really don't know how tired you can get. But really, I know he's commenting on the idea that your potential is infinitely more expansive than you could believe. But you have to go out there and practice it. You have to put in the time and the energy and work. So today on the show, we're gonna talk to a few different people. We're gonna explore this idea a little bit further. And my challenge to you is to quit thinking of yourself as a puzzle piece, looking for the right, perfect fit, looking for your destiny, quit thinking like that and think like you are an expansive foam. You know, that foam that builders use to insulate perfectly? You know, just to drop in a little opening. Yeah, initially, it doesn't fit it perfectly. It's dwarfed by the space that it's in. But just a few seconds later, it is a perfectly fit into this place. And that is the way that I think you should view your potential versus the giant challenges that you're up against. That with the right work, with the right intention, with the right learning, you can be infinitely capable. (upbeat music) So the first thing I wanna talk about is having a little faith, believing, changing your beliefs and actually just approaching the idea that your beliefs really do make a dramatic impact on what you can achieve and what you can do and how much you can pour into your art career and the challenges and the newness and how far you believe you can go, how far you think you can develop your portfolio. And actually, one of the things that really helps me is looking back 10 years ago, where my art was and realizing the way that I've literally grown and I've changed my work into a place that I would not have believed possible at that time. And I think when you look out over the next 10 years, your goals and the paths that you take should be informed by that. You should believe that in 10 years, I should be in a place. I should set out on a journey that I can't imagine completing at this stage because I know that I am infinitely more capable than I think I am. And I think it comes with a little bit of almost, it almost seems like a delusion. It almost seems like you're a little bit crazy. And today on this episode, for our purposes, we're gonna pretend like Christopher Columbus was a real saint and didn't go across the sea and do a bunch of horrid, horrible atrocities. We're just gonna go back to elementary school days when Christopher Columbus, discovering America, was a very simple story because it serves our purpose as a nice metaphor. So just bear with me there. But when Christopher Columbus believes that he's going to sail around the world to, I believe what they say, the West Indies. I can't remember, you know, I'm not a social studies geek, but I believe he's gonna sail across the world to get to the other side quicker than going around the tip of Africa. And he believes that the world's round and he can go around. And everyone looks at him like he's crazy, right? So you have to have a little bit of faith to go over the horizon. And it's actually not that easy because most of the time the people around you don't have the faith. They think you're nuts. I talked a little bit about this with my good buddy, Daniel Fischl, and he had some really interesting things to say about having confidence in yourself and your capabilities and what hard work can do. (upbeat music) - The building block of my thinking and my mindset. For me, it starts as early as high school. Started to listen to black flags damaged the record when I was in high school. And it just, that music was such a motivator to me. I've just pure defiance of if you're put up in front of some kind of obstacle, break through it, find a way around it, try to rise above it for lack of a bad word. - Yeah, yeah. And actually, I don't have any history. I mean, that's considered punk music, right? - Right. - All right. I don't wanna classify it the wrong way. I have no history or understanding of punk. - So another part of it was a little bit of arrogance. So that kind of plays into part of it. And arrogance can be somewhat healthy. If it's like internal, we're like, well, what, like they do this thing? Why can't I? You know, like on that level, when it gets beyond that, that's where it gets to be toxic and terrible. I got a letter in the mail from school saying that I won an award. And I'm like, oh man, like this is exciting. Like I'm probably gonna get an art award or whatever. - Yeah. - So I, and I call the school and I'm like, oh, like what is this award for? Like, well, we're not gonna let you know. You just gotta show up to the ceremony and find out. So I show up to this. Yeah. So I show up to this ceremony. Like it's like maybe like two or three weeks left of school. And I'm there and a bunch of other kids are there. And they say, when the art award goes to so and so and so and so. And that happened. And I'm like, well, what the heck am I winning? And so then, you know, five minutes goes by and they call my name and like 40 other people's names. - Right. - And I'm like, this is not good. And so what happens is they say, all of you win an award for best intentions. And I'm rushed. I'm just like really, really, really, I mean. - That's worse than most improved. - I know. - I got a lot of most improved awards. So that I'm speaking from experience, but that's such a trick. - I know it was crazy because I don't know. I was, and this is where the arrogance kind of comes in again. I was like putting out, I think, a 30 by 40 inch painting a week. I thought like my efforts was gonna be like put to that. And it wasn't at all. And you know, I went home and I cried obviously. I was just like, I was like, I'll show them kind of like mentality that I've kind of always had. - So wait, okay, let me just pause you there. Sorry. - Okay, cool. - So I feel like I had to really work to get out of the fixed mindset where talent says that, you know, if you're rewarded for talent, then you have it. And if you're not rewarded, then you don't have it. So I feel like I would have left that feeling like, I guess it's just not meant to be. So where does that come from where you leave thinking, I'll show them. Like they don't understand that I do have it. - I think it's just the punk rock mentality again. Like I'm just like, you know, art in itself, everyone's an artist. Pick up a pen, you draw a thing. That's you, but the difference between, you know, the artist and the professional is when you make money. So I was like, you know, push comes to shove. I'm gonna find a way to do this. - So I love that story. I think it's fantastic. I super enjoyed talking with Daniel. We actually talked about a whole mess of things that I might use for future podcasts. There was a bunch of really good tape there. But, you know, you can just watch right now, Daniel, his career is just exploding. And I don't wanna diminish the fact that he makes great work and he is super talented. But, you know, watching him grow and get his work get bigger and do new things and bigger things every year, you know, I think you gotta attribute a lot of that to his dedication to not give up. That mentality that says, when I hit a wall that you instantly go into the mindset of how do I break through this? You know, I'm gonna figure this out. It's about hard work and effort. And I'm gonna be the one that just takes it that much further. You know, in my mind, the way that I would deal with that stuff, especially in the past, was, well, it just must have not been meant to be. Like, it must have not been my thing. You know, the other people have it so easy, the ones that are really talented, it just comes naturally to them. And, you know, this year, 2016, Daniel's in the Forbes 30 under 30 in the art and style. You know, he's blowing up, he's doing amazing things. Audible.com, they did a really interesting profile, a video profile on his book cover work. And it's just fantastic. You can see it in the show notes on SoundCloud. So thanks, Daniel. You know, I really appreciate you coming and sharing some fun story and some interesting thoughts on this topic. And so, I really do think there's a good takeaway there of how you believe in yourself, maybe even to the point of arrogance to steal Daniel's words and believe that, you know what? I have the potential to do awesome things. It's just a matter of growing and learning. The second thing I want to talk about is this idea of fun, not outcome. You know, Carol Dwex, Dr. Carol Dwex studies on mindset. I found that, you know, when someone with a fixed mindset finds a challenge, it's kind of a panic moment. And they instantly give up because every challenge is a test on their IQ, a test on who they fundamentally are. And if they fail, then they are fundamentally a failure. Now, to those with the growth mindset, a challenge is exciting. It's fun. It's a chance to grow. It's a chance to expand. And so when you hit a challenge on your journey, does it make you shrink? You know, I think one of the best ways to identify, am I in the fixed mindset or am I in the growth mindset is the journey fun or does it make you panic and everything's a panic until you hit the finish line? And I think looking back on some of the biggest challenges that I've ever overcome, I realized that it was really a roller coaster. Like the journey was what it was all about. It was all about the fun of growing and learning and exploring and, you know, breaking through little challenges and improving that I was more capable and I could do things I couldn't even expect. And that the fun was in the roller coaster ride. And actually when the ride is done, it's not that fun anymore. Like you celebrate the win and it's great, but the fun's actually along the ride. And I think if you're in the fixed mindset, everything you do, you see it as it's all about the outcome. It's like a cross country move, right? Like nothing's worse than that, like a giant road trip and you're just trying to move your crap from this point to another point. And you know when you get to the end, it's, you know, it's not even the end. You gotta unpack and do all that junk. Like you're not enjoying the journey because it's really all about the means to an end. And so I think one of the best ways to identify where you're at is when you're on the journey, are you enjoying it? Because if you wanna do this new type of art, if you wanna be an editorial illustrator, if you wanna, you know, make an album, you know, if you're not enjoying making the music, why are you doing this in the first place? If you're not enjoying getting there, if the only thing that's enjoyable is the outcome, then maybe you're trying to prove yourself, maybe you're trying to prove that you've got what it takes rather than enjoy learning, growing, making. Because really the whole journey is about the creation process. It's not about the reward at the end of it. And so I had a good talk with Eric Malinsky. He has a podcast called Imaginary Worlds. It's really great. It's about, you know, the sci-fi imaginary worlds. And he's worked for WNYC for the past decade or so, working on all their different programs, especially Studio 360. So I had a talk with him and he pointed out that, you know, he made a big shift from being an illustrator in the entertainment industry into public radio. And he really saw that the thing that really stuck out was that when he was working on shows, he worked on Rugrats, by the way. When he was working on Rugrats, there would be people in the office that were just having the best time in the world drawing on day. And he just wasn't. And it really, to him, it really poked out something that, you know, something's not right here. - It was kind of a, well, what happened first was that I was really unhappy working on the Rugrats. And I thought it was just because of the show itself was just not really challenging. There's another show they had called us told by Ginger, which I really loved, which was kind of like a one or a year's for girls, except everybody messed up with a guy. (laughing) It's like the woman writing it. But other than that, you know, it was super into it, you know, it was this very charming show. And so it worked really, really hard to try to get switched to that crew. It was kind of the office politics was tricky to do that. And I finally got switched to the Ginger crew and I was so excited and I was, 'cause I just thought it was, just the problem is simply what I'm working on, you know? And a couple of months after that, I found myself all sinking into the same kind of depression and I couldn't figure out why. And this is such a cliche, but, you know, this happened with so many people. I was like, nine, 11, it happens. And, you know, it's like you're, you know, the thought of sitting in your office working and then you die was just shocking. I just, a lot of people, I know a lot of people are reassessing their careers and where their lives were around nine, 11. And I was one of them. - Yeah. - I mean, I knew people, a lot of people quit animation and, you know, when decided to go teach or whatever. It was around that time that I was like, you know, depressed and then we were all depressed. And, you know, I was working on Ginger and, you know, I loved the show and I was really happy to give you some scenes that I really enjoyed working on. I just suddenly had this realization that this plan that I set out for myself at the age of 22 was really kind of a misunderstanding of myself. I love cartoons and I like to draw, but I just don't want to draw all day. It's just driving me crazy and that, you know, we had so, it's like, we hardly, you know, we were very strongly encouraged to sit in your cubicle and draw all the time. And I realized that people that were really moving ahead weren't even just the best artists. But it was a combination of being a good artist and the job just being a really good fit where, you know, this one guy was just like, you know, if I had to work on Scooby-Doo or like Scooby-Doo Babies or something like that, he's like, I'd do it. 'Cause man, drawing cartoons all day is the greatest job in the world. And I just thought, wow, I don't feel that way. You know, the way I used to describe it to people when I was trying to explain why I was making a career transition, it felt like I was the gym and I was working out the left side of my brain or I was working out like my leg. (laughing) I held for it over and over again. And then there's this whole other part of my brain that I wasn't able to work out. And that's not a great metaphor because it implies that people who are artists are dumb sometimes. (laughing) - Yeah, but that's, you know, God knows it's not how I feel. But I mean, that's not how I feel in general, you know, but that's how I felt personally doing that. And so, you know, I had this other transition as well. There was like a transition within the transition, which is that I decided that I then wanted to write screenplays or I wanted to write TV or something 'cause I was still kind of trying to figure out a way for this to work where I would stay in the entertainment industry. And I still, I thought about public radio, you know, actually my brother was the one who said, "You may just listen to public radio all day long. "I mean, you know, you're obsessed with it. "Why don't you just do that?" And that seemed like such a radical shift that I kind of put that aside for a while. You know, it was an interesting thought, but I mean, I'm still very committed to the entertainment industry. - I think this is a really powerful image. You know, being in this place where you're looking around and you can see that there was an initial outcome that you were shooting for. Something that you really wanted to achieve or something that you thought that you really wanted. But when you're actually in the middle of it, there's no fun. And really, I think that should tell you something as an artist because the journey should be enjoyable. Otherwise, this really isn't the work that you should be shooting for. This is not hitting your passions and your skills in the right place. It's not hitting that cross-section. And I think the fixed mindset would really keep you there because if it's what you know, if it's what you've been praised for, if it's what the journey has led you to up into this point, then you have this part of you that says, this is what you're talented at. This is what you have to do. And I think making a radical shift like Eric did, you know, changing everything and going into public radio and then eventually launching his own podcast, like there's so much growth that's required and such an expansive view that's required to make those kinds of leaps. And you know what, I'm really glad he did because this podcast is awesome and there are amazing new things happening with it all the time. He's in the top 20 of the art section in the iTunes charts. Just absolutely fantastic. And, you know, I'm glad he's got that growth mindset going. So the last thing I wanna talk to you about is this idea of going over the horizon. You know, if you have this version of yourself that says you are this mapped out two dimensional flat world and that the horizon is a cliff and that if you go over the horizon, terrible things are going to happen. And I think if that's you, if you feel there's this sense that, you know, I don't know if I'm that much more capable. I don't know how much I can really push myself. I don't know how much more I can expand. Here's my challenge to you. Find a goal worth going over the horizon for. Find something so compelling that you're willing to explore what's out of reach. We're willing to explore something that you can't imagine grasping right now. Something that you're willing to explore the end of you in your mind because that's where the real challenges. And when you're willing to do that, that's when you're actually gonna push past the competition because it's not just you that has that view of yourself. It's everybody else. And I've found when I've started on a journey that I know that I don't have any idea if it's gonna be out of my grasp that I end up on a path that is not that traveled by other people. And that's actually where the interesting stuff happens. And so what are the things that are eating at you? The things that have been in the back of your mind, like, yeah, that'd be awesome if I could go that direction. I just, I'm not capable. What are those things that you'd be willing to sail over the horizon of yourself and see just how far this thing goes? You know, I talked with Chris P. ASIC about this very principle. And I think there's a really interesting story here that's really compelling about really having a clear picture of what you want and being willing to sail over the horizon. So yeah, as I was starting out working on my own, I had just a few projects and it was slow. But I really wanted to do it and I knew I didn't wanna go into being a designer again. And then right about that time I got offered this design job by someone who knew me from another studio I worked at. Good salary, had benefits. But it was this branding studio. It was gonna be a lot of corporate stuff. It's just something I wasn't that into. I could do it, but I would have been bored and not creatively fulfilled. But I just felt kind of awful saying no to it because it was good money and it was a good job. And so many people would want that good job, especially at the time. It was like right when things were terrible in the economy. Spent about a month convincing myself that I was gonna do this illustration thing and I was gonna make it work. And I'd finally kind of made peace with myself that I was gonna do this. I was gonna be an illustrator and then I got this opportunity. So then I had that kind of weighing on me for a couple of days trying to figure out what I was gonna do and I finally said you know what? I'm not doing it. I committed to this illustration thing. Said no and then referred someone and it actually worked out with that person so they got the job. Right after that I think maybe one of the projects I was gonna do fell through. So I had like one little project that I was doing and I just kind of felt like, I don't know, the worst. And I still had huge student loans. When I first moved to Boston, you know, my design salary was pretty low and it's very expensive there. So I was in debt. I had to get my own health insurance. So you know, though saving on it, it's still a lot of money to try to get by. I absolutely knew I wanted to be an illustrator. Once I started doing illustration projects, it clicked. I was like, this is me. This is what I had as a vision as a kid. You know what I mean? This is like a dream job. I have the chance to see if I can do it right now and I wanted to commit to try my best to actually make this a thing. As I said, that project fell through and it was feeling really kind of down. And then towards the end of the day, I got this email with a subject line that said Nike Project. Clicked on it. And it wasn't just like one thing they wanted me to do like four different things. So it was like a pretty substantial project. And it was definitely like Christmas morning. So I can't promise that you're infinite. I can't promise that you are infinitely capable, but the studies do say that things get a lot more interesting when you believe that you are. And one of the things that I've gone back to over and over again in this idea of mindset is that really mindset isn't about fact or fiction. It's about what serves your purpose. And I think this is what's so interesting about this idea. It's not whether the fixed mindset or the growth mindset is true. It's about which mindset serves your purpose. Because even if you are fixed, even if you are two dimensional, even if your IQ and your abilities and your talent is all genetically limited, believing that it's not actually yields the best results. And so I just encourage you to embrace a bigger, more expanded universe of yourself and believe that you can do infinitely more than you give yourself credit for. And don't get caught up in this idea that when you hit a failure or you hit a conflict, that it must be the wrong path and you need to turn around and go the other way. Or that everything you do is proving that you're either smart or dumb or talented or not and embrace this idea that when you hit a barrier that it just means that you need to buckle down and put more effort in and that the challenge is actually where all the action is. Thank you guys so much for listening. You've been sharing the podcast all over the place and that means so much. The listenership has doubled in the past couple of weeks. We actually made it to the number 10 spot on the arts section of the podcasts on iTunes, which is insane. That's beating out tons of professional radio shows. So thank you guys so much for sharing and making that happen. I hope this episode helps you find clarity and strategy for your creative career. Thanks to Yoni Wolf and his band Y for our theme music. Thanks to our proud syndicate illustration age. Thanks to the music from the free music archive.org. Today we featured "Underclocked" by Eric Skiff, "Mousetrap" by Apache Tomcat, great band name, "Night Owl" by Broke for Free and "Cosmitch Slop" by Aninan. If you love the show and it's helped you in any way, would you please think about reviewing it on iTunes? When you do that, nothing improves our rankings and our visibility like that. And so if you've been a big fan of the show or you're just getting into it and you're super excited about it and you want to help, please think about going onto iTunes, logging in and reviewing the show. It helps more than anything. And if that's not enough and you just need to help more, you can go to patreon.com/creativepeptalk and you can back the show at like $1 an episode. That's like four bucks a month. That's the price of like a Starbucks coffee and don't even get me started about the hipster coffee that costs like $9, four bucks a month. You can be a game changer in my ability to pour into the show. And I super appreciate all of you guys who are already doing that. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. Creative success in my mind is about staying peped up, dedicated in the long run. So do whatever it takes, guys, to stay up to date. (upbeat music) Oh, and go get that U.R. Infinite poster at my shop. Come on. Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine and I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately. And if you wanna check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you wanna test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself. And when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. - I'm Whit Msildine. The creator of this is actually happening. A podcast from Wondery that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future family with one choice, to a woman that barely survived her roommate, we dive into what happened and hear their intimate first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Followed this is actually happening on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.