Creative Pep Talk
067 - The Creative Hero's Journey
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Hey everybody, it's me, Andy J. Miller, and this is the creative pep talk podcast where we talk about making money and making great art. That's what it's all about. Before we jump in, I'd like to thank illustration age. Illustration age is the proud syndicate of the podcast. You can find this show at illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. All right, let's get on with the show. Let me ask you a question. Does this sound familiar? I would like to just survive off of my art. That would be great. If I could just survive off of making art, if I could just make art for a living, just the bare minimum, that would be fine for me. Does that sound familiar? It sounds very familiar to me. I said it when I first started out, and I've seen others say it. But the problem is, is that it's not a very compelling story. It's not a very compelling vision. It's not very exciting. It's not very large. It's not a big dream. It's a small, it's small, and it doesn't get you out of bed in the morning. That's the first problem with this idea of just trying to eke out a living on your art and thinking that's gonna be enough. Not to mention that just surviving, just sitting on the brink of survival is incredibly stressful because three degrees left of survival is not surviving. And if you've ever struggled with money, if you've ever struggled with survival, you know that is not a place that you wanna be. Now, one of the things that I've found to be true, and I know others have found to be true, is the same effort it takes to try to survive can be pushed towards thriving, and the amount of effort difference is actually not that much. It's not that much harder to thrive than to survive. That breaking point is the hardest point, just getting the ball rolling. And so today, I wanna talk about the creative hero's journey, and the idea is that thriving as an artist is a very difficult task. Now, I think it's a worthy task, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that later, but I really believe that thriving as an artist is a real challenge, and I believe that it's a challenge worth pursuing, but I think that sometimes we shoot for survival because we think it's gonna be easy, but what I wanna say is thriving isn't that much harder than survival because surviving is actually pretty difficult in the first place. And so I wanna just elevate our vision, I wanna expand it a little bit, and I wanna talk about how to think about this task as a larger thing, but do so in such a way that it's compelling to you, that it's exciting, that it's motivating, not thinking of it as a larger challenge, therefore, something to cry in your pillow at night about, but something to pump you up, get you excited, and get your head down making great stuff and in it for the long haul, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. 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Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls, and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True Fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. - You know, with healthcare the way it is and taxes, you know, you get a double tax for being self-employed, you get, you know, you have to pay extra, quite a bit extra on your healthcare if you're going it alone. There are so many ways that being self-employed, being a freelancer is an uphill climb, honestly. I kid you not, you know, when I first started out, I had this number in my mind, a salary that I thought, if I could just make that much a year, then I'd be fine, I would survive. And the truth is I'm making two or three times that amount right now. And we still have financial challenges, right? Like things that will hit us, that shake things a bit. And obviously we're still young, we're still getting our groove on, right? But it's still a challenge. And I don't say that to scare you. I know that I had people in my life telling me the same thing, like I think you should expand your vision. And I thought I can barely deal with the vision that I've got, this small number, this small vision. But the truth is there are ways of looking at a challenge that either make you shrink or make you rise to the occasion that get you excited. And today, I wanna talk about it in such a way that you get a taste of the gravity of this difficult situation but talk about it in such a way that it's exciting and that it's moving and that it's motivating, not something that will make you crumble under the pressure. And so I hope, I hope that this is an inspiring episode of the podcast, okay. Let's get on to my five point plan to ultimate domination in the arts. Just kidding, I'm just, that's not what I'm talking about at all. Let's get on to some of the plan today. So number one is clarity on the call. So it's not just about saying yes to the call, it's about getting hyper clarity on what am I trying to do? Why am I trying to do it? How am I going to go about doing it? Really getting clear on what is my mission? What is the thing that I am shooting for? And I'm not talking about something that you're shooting for in the next six months. I'm talking about a career, a direction that is worth giving your life to in the long run, a bigger picture. Now, that can change over time. But I think the power of having some real clarity is worth getting it wrong. You know, if you get all the clarity in the world and you change the path in three years, that's totally fine because you've invested significantly in one direction and that's so much more powerful than flailing about from day to day. So I'm probably doing this episode as I recently watched the new Star Wars and I'm not going to give away anything, but I absolutely loved it. It was such a good time. I really, really enjoyed it. And Luke Skywalker, the whole big narrative, is the hero's journey. It's the hero's story popularized by Joseph Campbell in the book The Hero of a Thousand Faces. But it's the, you know, it's the Christlike figure. It's the Buddha, it's the hero's journey. And that's where I'm getting the inspiration for today because, you know, if you look into psychology, people like Carl Jung scholars like that, you know, they believe that these archetypes and these ideas were actually deeply held within our subconscious and that's part of the reason we respond so strongly to these stories. And I think for me, embracing this journey, embracing this idea has actually massively inspired me to stick at it, to be motivated, to see all the components for what they are and not be crushed by all the hard parts of making something really significant. And so how do you get clarity on the call? We talked a lot about this on the "Pencil in the Stone" episode, but basically, I believe that you can really get some clarity of the overall direction of your life. The overall challenge, the path that you should say yes to by really embracing both the logical side of business and the magical side of art and finding some point in between there, you know, letting the external clues and the internal clues kind of meet up and head towards that because I really think that if your goal is to be a commercial artist, you can't ignore either side. And so for me, that looks like finding a balance between things that you're really good at, your skills and the things that mean a lot to you, your passions. I think it's important to find a place between both of those things. You can't ignore either. I think it's really important to look out at the economic demand, go look out into the commercial art world and say, okay, these five areas, there's actually money there. You know, ignoring this is detrimental. I've seen too many people do it. Invest significantly in a direction where there is no money and really find themselves stuck. You know, you can't ignore that stuff. But you gotta balance that external demand in the market with an internal impulse or an internal calling. Now, if you're a logic folk and you don't like the idea of a divine destiny placed within your heart from the heavens, if you're not down with that, then see this internal calling as your subconscious who has worked through so much of the problems nudging you into a specific place that they've already figured out this is kind of where you need to go. Now, if you're on the magic side of the spectrum and that's what you like your life to be, epic in a giant journey where you're deeply connected as the chosen one, if that's you, I think you can come to terms with the fact that you have to adhere to the market demand because that doesn't sound very, you know, magical. I think you have to come to terms with that saying, if you believe that you are here for a reason, you're set on this path at this time and place, you can see those external factors as clues in the story of why you're here and what you're supposed to be about. Just like you have internal clues of a gut feeling of what you're calling is. And so I think it's important to embrace whatever mindset will serve you, either the logical one or the magical one, whichever, whatever helps you to embrace both sides, I think is really important. And when you start asking yourself these questions, you know, go on a retreat, take a moment out to think about what is the balance between my skills and passions, the economic demand and my internal calling, and find a path worth giving your life to in creativity. Number two is find a mentor. We talk about it almost every episode. And I think really you need to find several mentors for the different parts of your life. Now, I just wanna clarify, when I say mentor, I don't mean Obi-Wan Kenobi, although I would have taken him as a mentor any day. I'm talking about a friend, someone who you really connect with as a friend that also knows more about the journey that you're on than you do, someone that's several steps ahead, a few miles ahead even, that can give you some pointers, give you some encouragement, and just be there for you. Now, in my career, almost nothing has been as valuable as this. And I've had some of my best mentors ever in the past couple years, and it's been a game changer. I kid you not. And I think that one of the reasons why a lot of us don't like the idea of a mentor is that they're really difficult to find, right? And so, the main point of what I wanna talk about right now is this idea of when the student is ready, the teacher appears, right? So, okay, that sounds really magical, Andy, all right. So, let me just balance that out. When you get a real clarity on the call, for some reason, that seems to be when the mentor appears, right? So, if you have no idea where you're going, you don't even know what type of mentor you need. Now, if you wanna look at it all magic-like and say, "Hey, man, I'm on the creative journey, "and I'm on this epic journey, and I need the heavens "to send me my mentor." That's totally fine. I get down with that. I can totally jive with all that action. Now, but if you're not, if you don't like the idea of that, think about it like this. I heard the author of "Dilbert the Cartoon" on the "Tim Ferris Podcast," and he said that when you're in a crowd of complete, chaotic noise, and you can't make out anything, if someone says your name, you'll be able to make it out. Why? Because your subconscious has some kind of Google alert out there in the world that says, when someone says this name, pay attention. And so, just in that same way, when you get real clear on your goals and on your mission and on your calling, when you start seeing things that might relate to that, your subconscious will peak your interest. And so, some of those people that you've already been around, all of a sudden will start being interesting to you as a mentor. And so, I think you really have to do them in order. Get really, really clear on where you're trying to go, and then put your head up and look around and try to identify those people that really understand this next step, that understand the next couple years, right? And not only are they incredibly valuable to you, you can be a lot of value to them. Like, you can serve a real purpose to them. There's a lot you can bring to the table, and a mentor relationship should be a give and take. And please don't label it a mentor relationship. Don't tell them that. I think that makes it weird and awkward, but for the purposes of the podcast, that's the best word to use to describe this situation. Now, usually, part of the reason this relationship evolves is that the mentor will see the spark in the mentee, something that says this person has what it takes. And there's something about that that maybe to me is the most valuable, to have someone further along the path that has actually made some traction, and they look at you, and they see something in you that's exciting, that says you're gonna be able to do this. And to me, nothing is more important than that. Like, I need external factors saying, Andy, you're the one, you're going to make it. I need something like that to keep me going, to keep me motivated and keep my head down. And to me, there's nothing more valuable than that. Number three is conflict. My least favorite number on this chart. I hate conflict, I hate roadblocks, I hate suffering, I hate all of that stuff. You know, I'm not naturally good at dealing with that, but I will tell you one little secret that's helped me a lot, and it legitimately has helped me. There's an author called Donald Miller, he wrote a book called, I think it's called "A Million Miles in 1,000 Years." And it's this idea of relating your life back to a story and thinking about it in terms of what makes a good story, and trying to live a good story. And actually, this was a phenomenal book for me. It really had an impact on me. And the biggest way it did was the way that it helped me see conflict. And I think we're currently in this zone where if we have a conflict, if we go about onto this road and we start hitting roadblocks, we think, instead of thinking, oh, that's totally what, you know, worthwhile things have big roadblocks, instead of thinking that, we think, oh, we must be on the wrong path, because this thing's not working, so I better turn around. But the truth is, all worthwhile castles have moats built around them. Anything worth achieving has all kinds of man-made and natural moats dug around it to keep people out so that not everyone gets in there and ruins it. You know, these people in our world are the art directors, the art buyers, right, the gallery owners, the people that keep people out. And if your mission is worthwhile, if it's worth really giving your creative journey over to, it will have big conflicts. And one of the things that he says in this book is that if you went to see a movie and there was no conflict and the hero got what they want instantly without really trying at all, it would be terrible. It would be an absolute terrible movie. And if you think about the things in your life that you've achieved without much effort, the victory is really not very sweet, it's very cheap. And I've found that when I achieved something through suffering, through painstaking, you know, motivation and hard work, when I get the victory of that, it is really, truly sweet and worthwhile. And I've found that even in the conflict now that there's a sick part of my subconscious that says, this is gonna make the payoff taste so much sweeter. I kid you not, I have that sick side of me now. I can't even believe it myself. But when you hit these conflicts, instead of thinking, oh, I better turn around, it's not the right direction, thinking, this is a good sign. This means I'm on a path that matters. I'm on a real challenging path that's gonna make the victory sweeter, that's gonna make this journey legitimate. - It's holiday shopping time, y'all. It's time to freak out. (screaming) Not because uncommon goods is here to make it easy. 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(upbeat music) (upbeat music) All right, if this journey was plotted on a graph from logic to magic, this number would be the most magical one and it's the one I have the least understanding of or explanation of, but I wanna throw it in here because it's been completely true for me in so many different ways. So number four is letting go of the outcome. I was recently listening to the off-camera podcast. It's really good, it's interviews with Hollywood stars, but they're really candid and fantastic. The kind of stuff that you usually don't hear with these chaps and there's a really good one with John Krasinski, Jim from the office and he talks about getting on the office and what that looked like and he said that after college, he told his parents that he was gonna try out acting for three years and if nothing really came of it, he was gonna turn around and he got on a pilot, about three years in and that crashed and burned and so he said, you know what, I gave it the three years I'm gonna give up and I'm gonna move on 'cause just nothing has come from this and as mom said, just give it a few more weeks. Just give it a few more weeks and it was in those couple weeks that he landed his gig on the office and so for me, I have had the same experience that often right as you're letting go. If you look at Napoleon Hill's book, "Think and Grow Rich," he talks about digging and stopping three feet before gold. It's a story about this gold miner who got his calculations wrong and pours all of this time and money into digging and ends up quitting three feet from gold, three feet from the treasure and someone else comes along, digs a few feet and is insanely rich and so I don't really know what this is about to be honest. If you look back into the Bible, you can see where Abraham was given this promise of creating this great nation through his offspring and they couldn't even have babies and so then they have a baby and then he's asked to sacrifice the baby, right? That's a very sick story, it's very weird, actually. But in that sacrifice, before he does it, he's stopped as he lets go of the outcome. That's when it starts to get interesting and I don't really know why. I do know though this, that the art that I make, that I am trying to position or posture or get something out of, if I'm really, really connected and focused to the outcome, like what I'm trying to do with the art, I rarely make the best art, but when I embrace the journey of the art, when I embrace the actual making of it and I just try to have a good time while I'm making it, I might have a purpose for it, but I try to really just disconnect from what I'm trying to achieve. Like if I'm writing a story, instead of thinking, oh, I'm gonna get this published, I'm gonna make X amount of dollars, instead of thinking that, if I'm thinking that while I'm writing, the writing is just a byproduct of all that and it's just a side note, right? And you're not really putting your heart into it. But if you stop and you say, "I'm gonna have a blast writing this," regardless of how it turns out, that's when it starts to get fun and interesting and I mean, we got into this because we enjoyed making art and if you let the business side take over, if you let the outcome take over in the end game, you really miss all the fruit of the journey along the way. And so there's part of it that says, even if the outcome of this whole thing, even if you spend five years going this direction, enjoy each part because even if the outcome doesn't end the way you wanted it to, it will not be for nothing if you enjoyed the whole path. And it also won't be for nothing because if you invest significantly into one direction, on the other side, even if it doesn't turn out the way that you hoped, really awesome things can come from that that you never would have expected. And that's part of the reason you can have the faith to keep pushing in one direction, even if it doesn't work out. So there's a podcast called "The School of Greatness" and one of the things they talk about on there is believing. Like if you talk to the top performers of any field, you will find that one of the core commonalities is that they believe that they're going to succeed. Now some people believe because they, you know, like Muhammad Ali thinks they're the greatest. They believe that they're the greatest. Then you got other folks that believe that they're destined, that some divine power is willing them towards the future. But you will find that between the people that succeed, there's a real core belief in what they're doing. If they're achieving anything really significant and they're doing so with success and they're doing so on a regular basis, you know, a proven basis with a real craft to it, believing that you can do it is a game changer. And so number five is believing. Now when I look back and I have watched these hero stories, these, you know, chosen ones, I've always used to be really, really jealous of Neo and Harry Potter and thought, man, you've got it so easy. You've got a prophecy that says you're going to do it. You've got all these people around you constantly saying you're the one, it's going to be fine. You're going to do it. I'm like, man, I wish I had that going on for me. But if you look at the story, the real make or break thing, the thing that the whole story is about is whether they believe it themselves, is that the real challenge isn't listening to all the people outside of yourself. It's actually believing it yourself. And I think, honestly, even if you don't want to get weird on it, let's talk about it like this. Your brain is maybe the most powerful tool in the universe. Seriously, it's phenomenal. Scientists know more about space than they know about the thing in between your two ears. Like honestly, it is a powerful, powerful tool. You are infinitely more capable than you think, seriously. I mean, the things that I feel like I've learned in the past five years, if I would have been able to show myself five years ago, I can do all of these things. I have some mastery over these things. My mind would have been blown. I wouldn't have believed it. And I spent so much time worrying about whether I was cut out for a commercial career, commercial art career, instead of taking all that energy and getting really clear on the calling and putting all that energy down on paper, down towards one goal, one big thing. I wish I wouldn't have spent so much time wasted worrying about whether I was really cut out to be one of these people. I can just stop you right there. And I believe that if you've got a brain, if you've got that going for you, you can do so much more than you could ever imagine. Whatever this goal is you have in your mind, you can do infinitely more than that. And so I really do believe that you, if you believe that you can do it, you're not gonna spend all of that time wasted worrying about whether you're capable, procrastinating on a bunch of other stuff, second guessing yourself. You really do need to believe that you can do it if you're gonna come to the table and actually make this stuff. And so number five is believing. It sounds all nice and warm and happy, but actually I think there's some really reasonable, reasonable, that's the second time I've used that word, reasonable, reasonable ideas surrounding number five. It's not all happy, fuzzy, warm stuff. It's actually just really, if you do believe it, you're going to be able to convince yourself to spend the time and energy working towards the thing. And if you don't believe it, you're never gonna just dip your toe into some really big challenge and just magically everything happens. Because when you don't believe, all you're willing to do is just test the waters, you know? So number five is believe. (upbeat music) So, you know, I got pretty passionate on this episode. I clearly believe pretty strongly about these things. And if you're gonna relate having an art career to an epic hero's journey, you better have a reason why. And so here's my reason. Here's why I believe so strongly in this. This is why I pour so much time and energy into helping other people have a commercial art career and why I take my career as seriously as I do. So first of all, I believe that you owe it to the people around you to be your best, to make your best contribution, to be as valuable as you possibly can. And I believe that because I've seen what it's like to have a parent that really missed their thing as an artist that really didn't find their calling, their path, they didn't really get on that, right? And it actually had a lot of detriment to me. Not only did not finding those fulfilling parts of their life by achieving things, they had to turn to cheaper thrills that actually ruined their life and had a dramatic impact on mine. I've seen friends and family, other friends and family really miss this thing, really refuse the call and then live a smaller life and really just affect me on a practical level. And so the people that you're responsible for, the people that you do life with, you owe them being your best, living your most inspiring life to inspire them. Not to mention that thriving financially means that you can actually be part of the cure to help other people. You know, the answer to poverty isn't that we all go into poverty. Like that doesn't help anybody else. Like getting your mask on on the plane when the plane is crashing first is actually the best use of your energy. Then you can actually go ahead and help other people. So on a practical level, I think you owe it to say yes to the call, to put your energy behind this thing and really accept the challenge and do your best. But then beyond that, I actually really believe in art. I believe in arts ability to communicate in ways that plain spoken words cannot. I believe that, you know, there's been so much art on this planet that has really helped me get through life in a thriving manner. There's so much art that has helped me really believe that I'm not alone. And, you know, life can be such a solitary endeavor. There's all these thoughts and feelings that we have that are stuck inside our own bodies. And art to me is this way of communicating these things in such a way that we transfer those thoughts and feelings to other people and say, all those things, those experiences you had, they don't make you some weirdo that's lost and alone. Actually, I know what that feels like. And the power of just feeling a little bit less alone is so worthy to give your life to. And not everybody should be an artist. We couldn't all be making art, but it's not everybody's journey to be an artist. But if it is yours, and even if you feel like a little inkling that says, yeah, I think it is mine, it's a worthy endeavor. I really do believe that spending your life trying to create something that communicates and brings us together and gives us a more shared experience is incredibly valuable. Because honestly, life is hard. Life can be lonely and scary. And I hate to get so real here on the podcast. You know, I call myself Andy J. Pizza. I hate to get so serious, but I do believe that art makes life worth living in so many ways. I get brought back to that Winston Churchill quote from World War II where they said, you know, things are getting tough. We're gonna have to cut the arts budget. And he says, well, what are we fighting for? And I really believe that a life spent making things. Although you can't eat art, you know, it doesn't give you a shelter, right? It's not one of those basic fundamental things, but that's the beauty of it. It's the human side, you know, spending a life to make things that are delightful for other people. What a worthy cause, what a human cause. It's one of the things that make us great. It's absolutely fantastic and I believe in it. And we need you to tell your story because there are people out there like you that feel very, very alone. And by creating these things, you start to create community. You start to create communication. And we all start to get closer. And so I believe in these things. And that's why I spend all this time and energy on the podcast. That's why I try to help people as much as I can. (upbeat music) All right, that's it. That's today's episode. Thank you guys so much for all of the iTunes reviews. Thank you for all the encouragement that you send my way, all the good vibes that are sent out to the universe for the show. I really appreciate it. The show's grown massively recently and it means so much to me. I'm just super grateful. Thank you guys so much. You can find this show on illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. You can find it on my site, AndyJ.pizza. You can find it all over the dang place. iTunes, SoundCloud. Go find it. Go enjoy the rest of the episodes. Thank you guys so much. I really, really do appreciate it. Until the next time we speak, do whatever it takes to stay motivated, to stay excited about making stuff so that you can be disciplined and really achieve something significant with your art. Stay peped up. (upbeat music) - Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine and I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately and if you wanna check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you wanna test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself and when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. (upbeat music) I'm Whit Misildine, the creator of This Is Actually Happening, a podcast from Wondery that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lift them. From a young man that dooms his entire future family with one choice, to a woman that barely survived her roommate, we dive into what happened and hear their intimate first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Follow This Is Actually Happening on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free by joining 1D+ in the Wondery app.