Creative Pep Talk
063 - Art Business Expansion with Tad Carpenter
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human and that these don't necessarily represent my best work or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode or at least go back to around 300 and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, it's me Andy J. Miller. I am your host for the Creative PEP Talk podcast. The show where we talk about making money and making awesome art. That's what this is all about. If that's the thing you wanna do, you're listening to the right podcast. Today, we talk with my friend, Tad Carpenter. We've been online buddies for years and years and this is the first actual conversation we've had which is very strange, but it was fantastic. I had a great time talking with him. Tad is a genius. He is brilliant. I brought him on the show because I think he is an industry leader and he knows some amazing things. His art is fantastic. His craft is a very high level. And in a minute, I'm gonna go a little bit deeper into why I asked him to be on the show. Before we jump into that, I just wanna thank illustration age for being our syndicate. You can find this show on illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. (upbeat music) Miro is a collaborative virtual workspace that sinks in real time for you and your team so that you can innovate an idea into an outcome seamlessly. We talk a lot on this show about the idea of how creative research shows that playing with the problem is essential to innovation. Now, when I think of play, I don't think of documents and email. So if your team is often working remote, you need something more dynamic and collaborative. I think that Miro's mind maps and flow charts where team members can edit and play in real time has a lot more capacity for innovation and playing with the problem than traditional ways of collaborating over the internet. Whether you work in innovation, product design, engineering, UX, agile, or IT, bring your teams to Miro's revolutionary innovation workspace and be faster from idea to outcome. Go to Miro.com to find out how that's M-I-R-O.com. (upbeat music) I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro, and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's fluid engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So go check it out Squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself. And when you're ready to launch your site use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - So I asked Tad Carpenter to be on the show. He, originally I wanted him on the 50th episode, but he couldn't make it for that, and we kept trying to figure out a time to chat. Finally figured something out for you guys, and I'm so thrilled because when I think of success in the arts, I think of Tad Carpenter, I kid you not. I mean, who wouldn't want a client list that sports Target, MTV, Adobe, Hallmark, Chronicle Books, Kid Robot, and I could go on and on and on. Who wouldn't want to have this career under their belt? And when I think of professional, when I think about someone who really nails the business side of art, I think of Tad. I think of someone who has made a real thriving career, a real full-on, totally legit career pioneered on their own. I think of this guy because I can see the success from a mile away, and it's awesome, and it's always been inspiring to me. And he's been a guy who has made himself available to me over the years since I got started back in '08. He's always been there to answer questions or help me out. And he is, in my mind, just a picture of making a real career out of art, not just getting some lucky gigs here and there, but turning this into an actual career. And that has always been inspiring to me. The other reason I wanted to talk to Tad is because on the flip side, the fulfillment on the creative side, here's a guy who consistently is breaking new grounds, breaking new territories, doing things that across the board, keeping it interesting. And one of the themes that kind of appeared as we were talking, and as I was going back listening through this, is just the limitlessness that he doesn't limit himself to this small corner. Yeah, you can see this strong voice that's apparent through everything he does. And I respect that. But he can do a kid's book or he could make a poster for Bob Dylan. He can do that kind of range. And I think this is one of the biggest reasons he's able to be creatively fulfilled and stay excited. And by staying excited, staying relevant and keeping that business flowing. And so I wanted to just dig a little bit deeper and see what kind of gems we could unearth from this chap. So first, what we started talking about was just this idea of what do you call yourself? Because you do range from illustration to books, identity, posters, packaging, prints, all kinds of stuff. He even does brand identity. That's a big part of what he does. And that's a big range of things to do. And I wanted to talk about what do you call yourself? This is something that's been a challenge for me. I usually go to commercial artists, but there's a lot of baggage that comes with that. And so we talk a little bit about that. And I think you'll find that he doesn't put a lot of limits on himself in it and enables them to do all kinds of things. Here we go. I know when I was in middle school, let's call it, I remember taking my first commercial art class. You know what I mean? And we designed a poster for a leukemia walk or something, you know what I mean? Or like we did a, you know, and it was commercial art. And it's like, yeah, I think a lot of us probably at one time or another, maybe not all of us, but a lot of us probably did think about maybe fine art or just creating art in general, just 'cause that's something we've always done. And I know I started and I thought at one point for a long time, I was like, I'm gonna be a painter. Like this is what I wanna do. I wanna paint and sell them and like do all these things, which then, you know, that then led to graphic design and illustration, you know, it just was this natural kind of migration that way. I feel like I constantly have a struggle with students and then even young designers and illustrators out of school that like don't fully understand where they fit in our industry, 'cause it's like, you're like, hey, well I have a degree in graphic design, but I really love to like draw and make things, you know? And I'm like, or I have a degree in illustration, but I wanna get a job. Where can I get a job as an illustrator? And I'm like, well, you have like two or three options right now, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, it's like, Hallmark Cards is a great place for American greetings or, you know, Target might hire some, or do you like, you know, do you like concept art or video games, you know? And it's like, and then it's like, well that's not, like you were I, that wouldn't be a good fit for us probably, you know? And so it's like, so it's like, how can I discuss or create something for you? And the way I know I approach classes at IT or even when I'm talking to people about it, it's like, I don't know how our education system can do a better job at it. And it's obviously above our pay grade, but it's like, to me, it's like, I'm done. I am so sick of putting people in these little, these little bubbles of, no, no, you are a graphic designer because you like to work with typography, you know? And you're an illustrator because you like to make pictures or whatever you know what I mean? And it's like, all of us, you know, I mean, there's this huge group of us and that do both of those things. And, you know, I know the work I get where I might illustrate a book, but I'm also gonna design it for the most part or I'm illustrating a book, but at the same time, we're, you know, we're creating a brand identity for, you know, some sort of, like, a tea company or a salon, which is very design-heavy and very type-based. And, you know, so it's like, it's like, so what am I? And do I even need to be one thing over another? I don't think you do. Yeah, that's a mix. And I have seen kind of a migration of light where either small design firms or even larger firms that they'll put out kind of a call for, hey, we're hiring, we're looking for a graphic designer. We'd really prefer this designer to be able to illustrate and, you know, create iconography and also have strong type skills and maybe have a little bit of a backbone or, you know, background in, you know, simple, you know, WordPress or, you know, whatever. We were like, wait, wait, wait a second. You just described everything, kind of, you know what I mean? Like, wait, you want a graphic designer, but you want someone that can draw really well and you want someone that can maybe have just even a knowledge of backing development, you know? You're like, wow, you're kind of looking for the world. But at the same time, like, there's probably a very large group of people out there that are kind of like, well, I can probably fit that bill, you know, or, and to me, that's exciting seeing that more people are looking for that. Because, I mean, again, that's what's so awesome about our industry is that, you know, you can do a lot of different things. (upbeat music) So, what I took away from this was maybe not super obvious right from the get-go, because, you know, tab does use words like designer and illustrator and author to describe what it is he does, you know, and that helps him communicate what he does. But I think the point of all this is not to let the, that terminology limit your own thinking, you know? I think because it's important to communicate clearly and effectively that a lot of people go out there, say this is what I do, and then when someone comes along with an interesting opportunity that's really outside of their view, they turn it down or they don't rise to the occasion. And I think one of the things that Tad points out over and over is that what makes what we do so good and so interesting is that you can do new things every day. And I think the longer you go, the longer you go, the more diverse your career has to look or gets to look. You know, I talk about early on in this podcast, I talk about focusing on one thing and communicating the one thing that you do really well. And to be honest, I think that that is really more about breaking into an industry, that it is creating a viable, thriving career. Because I think nowadays it's really hard to exist or thrive on just one stream of income, just one marketer, one niche. However, I think in order to break into some of these really difficult niches like kids books or editorial illustration, you do need to communicate something really, really strong initially in one direction. But as you've solidified that, I think that it's really interesting, fun and exciting, as well as financially rewarding to diversify and do different things. And I kind of think of it like, I just kind of think of it like Doritos, I just wanted to pause there. You know, if you look into marketing, they say that it's so much easier for a brand to launch a brand extension product, rather than a new product altogether. And that's why you have, you know, fiery, jalapeno, fish taco Doritos, instead of a totally new chip from that brand. Because extending the brand of Doritos is way easier than trying to break in with a completely new brand. And also I think even not just in the side of finances and business, I think that Tad brought up a lot of good points about how it's just creatively fulfilling and it keeps it interesting and keeps you excited when you get to do a slightly different thing every day. That's the benefit of our industry in general. It's just the sheer amount of diversity you can get yourself into as far as the work's concerned, you know. (upbeat music) And it can change daily, you know. It's like, I couldn't, I couldn't just be a traditional graphic designer all the time and say, hey, nope, I only do editorial page layout. Like that is all I do all the time, you know. And the same to be said, like with illustration, I couldn't only just do editorial work or books or, you know, whatever. Like, I need that change every week in it. And every day where you're hopping from different clients to different clients. (upbeat music) Fortunately or unfortunately, I have a lot of passions within our industry, you know. So as far as like strategically doing a certain amount of things is I would say the backbone of what I do is actually probably brand identities. And to be honest, that's one of the things I enjoy doing the most is creating brand identities. And those can be for small companies, large companies, rebrands, whatever. But creating brand identities is definitely something I love to do. So I think that's something I always keep in my mind as far as those aren't like for anybody. I don't think those are easy jobs that are constantly just like showing up, you know. Those are hard, you know, where illustration work, I almost feel like I can create illustration work for myself almost if I want, you know. And all of us can, you know. If I have an idea for a book, well, let me type my manuscript out for you here in the next few months or whatever. And then I'm gonna try to sell it to some publishers and hopefully eventually someone acquires it. And guess what? You just got an illustration project. You know what I mean? Where from a brand identity standpoint, I'm probably not gonna just go start a restaurant on my own. (upbeat music) That would be a bad move for everybody. Like, you know, nobody would want that, you know. But I love creating brand identities. And so I think that's something that I'm fairly conscious about like, you know, sharing projects that we're working on with that. (upbeat music) And I'll be completely honest as far as like, how I share things on the internet or what I say and things like that. I am not strategic at all. And maybe some people are. I'm very just like, hey, here's who I am unfortunately. And like, hey, here's something I was working on. Or, hey, here's a stupid thought that literally just pop, you know, I'm just not very strategic in that manner. (upbeat music) But yeah, I definitely would say that that brand identity work is something that we do a lot of. And I constantly want more new businesses and new projects of that nature to come in. So to do so, I think you do have to share that kind of work and make sure that you kind of stay on top of that in some manner. Also when we have that type of work with pretty strategic, like we try to put a pretty fair amount of strategy just involved in those projects. We don't just start making right off the bat. We have a whole kind of strategy session. We start with every new client. So that's always a big kind of avenue that we pursue and find very important as far as part of kind of our practice and our process. And then I guess the kind of work that we probably aren't as strategic about our plan is, you know, I guess I would probably say some of the illustration working and I feel like that stuff just kind of comes in a little bit more organically maybe. And it's like, you know, maybe it's somebody who's done work before that needs some sort of illustration help or they've seen something somewhere and they like that particular illustration or that particular style. And to them, that makes a lot of sense. They're like, oh, I see visually right off the bat how you can help us. And so I feel like that's a little more organic. And like I said, even when I said about, you know, it's like, you can kind of create those projects on your own a little bit more through some sort of passion project or, you know, even just the idea of kind of putting your entrepreneur pants on and like coming up with a product and trying to go out and sell it to somebody, you know. - I think that these are some interesting distinctions and I think this is another layer of what makes a multi-tiered career creatively fulfilling and also rewarding and just in terms of, you know, saying that the identity stuff is stuff that he needs to drum up a little bit more directly. Whereas the illustration is something on the back burner that kind of spills over one project after another in an organic fashion, which again, I think is good for the ebbs and flows. And it's, although I don't do brand identity, I have different components in my career that make everything kind of flow. The cash flows better that way and the natural flow of projects kind of tips over, even in terms of like, for me, you know, there are certain parts of my work that are really busy in let's say the summer and the winter and then there are other types that are more active in the fall and spring. And so I think as you diversify and grow your portfolio, all of that starts to kind of happen naturally. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new journey of the true fan series exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. It's holiday shopping time, y'all. It's time to freak out! Not because uncommon goods is here to make it easy. Listen, all I did was click the "For Her" section on this site and I instantly saw five things that I could get, Sophie, don't tell her, but I'm thinking either the National Park sweaters, the tea advent calendar. There's also just below that little bubble tea kit for my oldest. And then I saw one of these, you know, the retro little viewfinder orange real viewer things, but you can make it your own photos. Okay, it might not make sense. Just you have to go check it out yourself. Here's a thing. I have seriously never seen so many good options for gifts online in one place and unlike lots of other convenient options, shopping uncommon goods actually supports small businesses. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk. That's uncommongoods.com/peptalk for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. (upbeat music) Next up, we start to chat about the tightrope walk that is balancing business with art. I think that one of the most impressive things about Tad's career is his ability to be a true business person and a true artist at the same time. That tightrope walk is something I think will all probably be doing most of our career. But hopefully you eventually figure out how to take each step and it gets easier and easier. And yeah, it's the end of the day where this is. This is, I mean, we're gonna do something we'd love for a living and get paid for it. And this is super rad and this is super fantastic and we're all very lucky to do it. But at the end of the day, it's also a business. It's like it's also something we do. So you have to try to figure out like, okay, I gotta be profitable at this. And you wanna take on work that you enjoy and you like and you can be fulfilled from. But at the same time, like to me, it's always finding this balance of like, okay, I have, I have projects that are really exciting and very fulfilling, yes. And there might be some jobs that are a little more just more economically fulfilling, let's call them. But you know, but then at the same time, you always have to have, at least I personally, always have to have a two or three little passion projects just kind of floating around the outside of everything. So I'm like, you know what? I got a couple of free hours, which doesn't happen that much, but you're gonna be like, I got a couple hours. And you know what, I'm just gonna do, I'm gonna make something for myself, man. Yeah, like let's just do that. And that then your fulfillment level gets charged up to 90 and then you can go to bed. And then tomorrow you're gonna be ready to start working on, you know, whatever that other client project is. And you've already kind of, your fulfillment levels can have already raised and you're in a good place creatively. And then you can go do something else. It's just like, it's finding that balance and that teeter kind of, you know, that's so important to figure that out. I think that takes time to figure out. I don't think that's something you do right away. (upbeat music) It's so, yeah, it's weird how like everyone's smelling like you need, it's like, hey, I need a project that's only gonna be like a couple weeks long. Like I need that for myself. Like so I can make something and get it out and it's done, you know, where so often I feel like projects are months upon months and you're just like, you know, by the end of it, it's not that you're sick of it, you're just like, well, I'm kind of, all right, I'm still in this, here we go, you know, where it's like, it's just a lot, you know, it's just a lot to take on. (upbeat music) But it's also a thing, you know, you mentioned previously a little bit about like trying to figure out how we're lucky in that what we get to do for a living very much kind of can fulfill you or not fulfill you and just from a life standpoint, you know, it's almost scary to me somehow that like the work we all do and the process of creating it can fulfill me as much as things outside of my career sometimes, you know, and like that scares me a little bit. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) The next thing I wanted to talk to Tad about and kind of extract his value and kind of bring it to you as this idea of, you know, understanding the balance between your own limits and in a limitless view and an expansive view and vision for your career because I think that Tad seems to strike this balance incredibly well where he's able to get the most out of his current situation, his current skills, the current playing field and really maximize that in such a way that he doesn't overstretch his limits but then when that starts to evolve, be able to expand his vision into new territories and so really he started kind of as any traditional designer would. (upbeat music) - Yeah, I mean, and I think something I tell young designers and students all the time is I think and you probably encounter this too, I'll meet a young designer or a student of mine that graduates and he's like, you know man, I'm not, I ain't gonna go work nowhere, I'm just gonna go freelance right off the bat and just work for myself and like, I'm gonna take this world by storm, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, all right man, good luck, you know? And like my advice to everyone, like, and it seems probably like a long time but like if you can try to work for somebody for five years, even three years, three to five years, like if you can please go try to work for someone for just those first three to five years, you're getting paid to learn this industry, like right off the bat, you know? And to me that's absolutely, and you can have the best instructors and the best institution in the world and like, there's no way that you can, that education is never gonna value the experience that you're gonna get, you know? I mean, hell even from an internship, you know? And so, and I kinda had a similar path, like, you know, when I graduated school, I went and worked at a small studio for, you know, I should have been around five years and to me, I think that was really important 'cause to be honest, probably like a lot of 22, 23 year olds, like I had no clue what I wanted to do and where I was gonna go. I had a ballpark idea of what I was starting to enjoy, you know, I was like, I knew I liked, you know, creating logos and icons, and I knew I loved to do illustration a little bit, but like, I was like, I have no idea how any of these things go together, I have no idea how I'm really gonna make a living, but this cool studio kinda likes me and I'm gonna work there and hell, let's just roll the dice and see what happens, you know? And so, yeah, that's kinda where I started. And like I said, I don't know if I had a necessarily preconceived notion of exactly where I was gonna go. Really lucky to grow up the son of an illustrator and designer and came from a creative family. So my father, he's been a creative director or designer or whatever, you know, creative in general with Hallmark Cards, which is located here at World Headquarters is here in Kansas City, Missouri. And he's been with him, gosh, this is, he doesn't like me telling people this, but I think this is officially his 40th anniversary there this year. That's the kind of stuff that none of us are ever gonna see again, you know? Like, he literally, this was his first job out of college and he is still there today, you know what I mean? And then, you know, the further I got, or I guess I should say the closer I got to that opportunity, I thought, well maybe, you know, maybe that isn't what I should do for many, for several, several reasons, you know? I mean, first reason is I, you know, to be honest, I didn't think I wanted to live in my dad's shadow, you know what I mean? And there's nothing wrong with that. He's my dad's my biggest hero. Like, I literally got to grow up with like, you know, most kids, Joe Montana, you know what I mean? Like, every day I got to see my dad doing amazing, cool stuff and me being like, oh my gosh, that is what I wanna do. And to this day, he's still of that person to me. But at the same time, I'm like, if I go to Hallmark, if I make this conscious effort to go there, what does that mean for me down the road? So, for me, I kind of went to design firm route and a small route and that really set a tone for my work ethic, my kind of my overall practice was doing that and then I started doing more illustration work which is, I didn't know a whole lot about the freelance illustration world. My dad had done a lot of freelance illustration when he was there, but primarily all in the children's book industry, which was obviously something I like and now do myself. But as far as some of the more freelance work and actually creating a career on your own, that was totally a new idea. So, I didn't entirely expect that either. So, I mean, that's kind of like where I started, where I came from and then kind of, you know, kind of how things started kind of evolving a little bit. But then I started getting calls for, hey, I'm starting a new restaurant. Can you do the whole brand identity and build out for it, you know? And I was like, holy cow, what? You know, like, wait, wait a tick. You know, this isn't like doing a spot illustration that's due tomorrow morning, you know? Like, this is a different experience for sure. And it's going to take a different approach, you know? It's going to need a different approach. And so, again, a lot of that was always primarily by myself, you know? I was kind of doing that. And so to me, just the experience of that started to kind of open my eyes up a little more of that, hey, wait, like, this could, you know, for the long haul, if this might need to change a little bit. This is that ability of tads that I admire to kind of see when things need to expand. And I continually say "we" and it's not the royal "we." Our studio very much is in a transition right now and changing. Not just me anymore. Somebody who I find to be a mentor, I remember talking to her once about her studio and here in Kansas City, there's a design firm called Willoughby Design Group. And if people aren't familiar with it, or a lot of people probably are, Ann Willoughby is, she's an A.I.J. gold medalist. She's a, you know, she's a Milton Glacier era designer. And even more importantly, she owns the oldest woman ran design firm in the country. (upbeat music) You know, my kind of connection worth there is, and this will transition us into kind of where we're heading. I guess my wife was an amazing graphic designer and art director. She's been an art director with Ann Willoughby for over 10 years. So we've been involved for a long time and I remember talking to Ann once just about, you know, how she got started in the 1970s as a woman starting a design firm and why she did that. 'Cause really her background as an illustrator also. And I remember her telling me that, you know, I got to a point at one day where I said, this right now is as far as I can ever go as a single maker. That's a single creative person. And if I want to take on other things and I want to try larger projects or even just different work, I have to start to collaborate with more people and bring people in. (upbeat music) And I remember her saying that and I just remember like, wow, you know, you're probably right at some point if you want to do more diverse work, you have to kind of change things up a little bit, you know? And so that was one of those things I remember thinking, I remember hearing. And that kind of started to kind of catapult kind of where we're kind of heading now, I guess. (upbeat music) - Yeah, like my wife and I have been talking about this. I mean, literally by most of our lives and we've been together almost 12 years in some form or fashion from dating to getting married. And we met each other in our school. And we always, you know, after several years of dating, like we kind of always daydreamed about like, oh man, one day it'd be awesome to like do something together. - I mean, it's something that's kind of been building for some time and that's just like kind of expanding kind of what we do in our practice a little bit. And I'm lucky enough to be married to an art director and designer and one of the most talented people I've ever met, she's so, so good. And we always knew we wanted to work together and partner together, we compliment each other very well. And we just didn't know when the right time was and it's just kind of gotten a little overwhelming over the past year or so. And we finally just said we just, you know, it's time, we'd have to do this. And so just back in just very recently, back in June, my wife Jessica and I have partnered 100%. And so she's on full time now. We're gonna kind of, you know, our company's gonna kind of change us a little bit because of that, which is great. And it's all good changes. So it's the two of us kind of running the show. And then we have, currently we have three designers working with us, all kind of on a part time basis. Some are students that intern for me. And they all work, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 some hours a week for us, which has been really beneficial and really helpful. And that's kind of where we're starting to head. And we're really excited to kind of move that direction. And the only thing that's like really making me angry and upset is just the fact that we are really busy and we have zero time to rebrand ourselves and get our new website launched and do our new identity and like refotograph all the new work we've been doing. It's like, there's zero time to do any of that. And as it started approaching, I think it did get a little scary because we're like, oh man, like it's time to do this. Like you have to. And when it's something that you've dreamed about and wanted to do so long, you want to make sure you do it right and you want to make sure that it doesn't, you know, it doesn't not work, you know. We've collaborated on stuff for a long time. I mean, I always show her everything I'm working on or things I'm playing around with. And she always makes it better with suggestions or just some sort of idea or whatever, but didn't actually spend 24 hours a day together. That's a different ball of wax. And not every couple can do that, you know. And admittedly, the first few weeks of it, like it wasn't all peaches and cream, but we were feeling each other up. You have to work out the Kings, you know, it ain't perfect. And it's all me. It's like, she's perfect, you know. It's like, I'm just a weirdo where I'm like, why is she working on that right now? What the hell, man? Where I'm like, of course she's working on that. Like, that's why we're together now, you know what I mean? We're like, but I'm used to doing that part of the project. Why, you know, we're like, no, this is what you're doing. This is what we're figuring out. And, you know, it's just absolutely. And then now I'm like, oh man, why didn't we do this early? You know, it's like, it's just perfect. Like, it's really great. - So I'm really excited to see where Carpenter Collective goes. And if you want to check out their work, go to tadcarpender.com and go check out all the work they're doing. I think the way that he has grown his career has been very organic. And even in this last major shift, he's done a really good job of maintaining the voice and just kind of making this seem just like the natural next step. And I'm looking forward to seeing kind of a modern day, Eames, Gerard, kind of studio, you know, little studio building out of this awesome career that he's created. And, you know, it's exciting to watch. So thank you, Tad. Thanks for being part of the show. Thank you for all your insight. You are awesome. Thanks for all your help over the years. It's been, you know, invaluable to me. And yeah, I'll just be continue to watch an excitement as your new endeavors unfold. So we had a lot of music on today's show and I want to thank the bands. They all come from the free music archive, except for my show songs. We had How How with the Song Steamboat. The band broke for free with the song Something Alated and Warm Up Suit. We had Jazar with Please Listen Carefully and Lee Rosavir with Let's Start at the Beginning. Thank you. You can go check those out at freemusicarchive.com or .org rather, and our show songs, the opening song and the closing song are by the fantastic band Y, one of my all-time favorite bands. That's W-H-Y question mark. They were kind enough to let us use the songs for the show. So thank you, Yoni, the lead singer. I really appreciate it. The first song is January 20, something. And the last song is their song, Berkeley by Hirstback. Go check those songs out. Thank you, Illustration Age, for being the proud syndicate of the show. You can find the show on illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. Now, this episode had a little bit more heavy lifting in terms of production and editing. If you enjoyed that, go back to Patreon. Patreon.com/creativepeptalk. I can't afford to be putting that kind of editing into every episode, but I'd love to get to the point where we could do that every episode. And so if you want to see the show grow and expand and get better and better, go help out by backing the podcast per episode at the Patreon. Even a dollar or $2 an episode really dramatically helps. So thank you guys. This is hopefully a taste of brighter things to come. And let's just have Tad close us out with some thoughts on the secret sauce that makes Tad so awesome. Thank you, Tad. You are awesome. (upbeat music) - For me, it's a simple thing for me. And it's hard to say about everyone else, but even other people that I know, I think I probably have an idea what it is, because I mean, to me, and we all can see it, I mean, you go online or you open annuals or books or whatever, and it's astounding. It blows me away how many unbelievably talented freaking people there are. I mean, all freaking over. I mean, off the charts talented, crazy talented. But for me, and it's like, I'm okay, but it's like at the end of the day, what it is is it's not talent. It's not the quality, 'cause at some point, everybody's good. Like at some point, everybody's really freaking good. And at the end of the day, it's that work ethic and how hard you're willing to work. (upbeat music) Buck Owens and the buckaroos, Mr. Buck Owens himself once said that the harder I work, the luckier I get. There's no shortcut at all. Like, the only way to do it is to do it. (upbeat music) Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine. And I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately. And if you wanna check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you wanna test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself. And when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. (upbeat music) - I did consider Barney a friend and he's still a friend to this day. - The idea of Barney is something that I want to live up to. You know, I love who you love me. I call it the purple mantra. Barney taught me how to be a man. - Generation Barney, a podcast about the media we loved as kids and how it shapes us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music)