Creative Pep Talk
054 - _Backstage_ with Draplin
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Well, hello there, everybody. It's a new week, a new creative pep talk, and boy have we got something special planned for today. We have "Draplin" on the episode. This is a giant fulfillment of a dream for me. I am so excited to share this conversation with you. Before we get any further, and I preface the preface, let me just start by saying, you can find this show on illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. It's a great website where you can find all kinds of illustration resources and more. - I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro, and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's fluid engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So go check it out, squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself. And when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. - Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. (upbeat music) Right now, just to give you a little sneak peek, I know that Thomas James over at illustration age is planning a massive, massive giveaway. So you're gonna wanna go follow illustration age on Facebook and look out for that. They're, he's planning some crazy stuff. It's pretty awesome. And so yeah, get prepared for that. Okay, so today on the show, what we've got cooked up, it's a different type of show. I'm calling it Backstage with Draplin. It's not actually Backstage at all. It was just a phone conversation that I had with Aaron. And the reason I called it Backstage was because first and foremost, he was going to Foo Fighters gig that night where he was gonna be Backstage. And it actually just felt like a Backstage talk because we had just a really vulnerable talk where it felt like he was giving some behind the scenes looks. He was just being really candid. And you know, Draplin's known for being candid, but it just felt like a casual kind of look behind the scenes from his career. And you know, he's talked a lot about that, but it was just a candid conversation. And I really enjoyed speaking with him. Thank you so much, Draplin, for being on the show. It means so much to me. You are honestly a major inspiration for the show. I remember the first time I heard a Draplin talk online and I spent the rest of the day like in some kind of euphoria, just being so excited and inspired and just moved. And I appreciate what he does so much for our industry. I love the sincerity that he approaches his speaking gigs with. I love how down to earth he is, you know, not just in a Midwestern way, which he is. He has that Midwestern charm, but he's just so sincere. He really cares about other people and other people in the industry. And I just couldn't appreciate his contributions to our field anymore than I do. So thank you, Draplin so much. Not to mention that he makes the best logos in the biz. You know, I am a big fan of the mid century design and commercial art. And he is up there with all time greats as far as logo design is concerned. And so yeah, I was just super honored and really enjoyed having a chat with him. So what I'm gonna do is just play you a few of the clips of Draplin sharing some wisdom, some design, commercial art wisdom. And I'm gonna stop it from time to time and just give some extra feedback and just round out the whole conversation. I called Draplin originally to talk about craft and, you know, honing your craft and getting better at that because he's so renowned for his craft. But we ended up talking about all kinds of different things. And so I thought I'd just take an opportunity to go with the flow and go with what great things he was bringing to the conversation and just center the whole episode around that. So this first clip is just Draplin talking about hard work and basically doing whatever it takes to make a living. Well, I don't know, I mean, you know, okay. You know, it's like I'm trying to be like delicate here because I don't wanna like sound like I haven't figured out and I don't wanna sound like I've got like some little formula or something, but, you know, I don't know how hard, you know, do you need to work and how hard should you work? Just to make sure that you feel like you're doing the right thing, you know? That's what like, you know, like I'll look at stuff just kind of be like, you know, first of all, you know, well, thank you for what you said, but it's like, it's like, you know, it takes work. Any of this stuff takes work and there's, I have my own filter of like, ah, could I have done a better job? Now that stuff will haunt me, you know, to the point where it's almost like a bit of a sickness, you know, where it's like, I won't let it go until I feel like it's at a certain standard of where I did push myself or I felt like I surprised myself and then that's the little buzz I get. That's the little buzz I get sort of in my tongue of like, it's ready, it's ready for the world, you know? So that takes work, that's just the long and the short of it. You know, this idea of like, whatever it takes to make a living is just sort of like, you know, be open to the weird stuff, really, you know, be open to like, every job, good little, big, small or whatever, is still good for the bottom line. You know, I just will always feel that way because that's not really what I was told sometimes. I was told that, you know, like, I just saw people act in a different way, you know? Like, I'm not doing that work. I heard a lot of that, you know? And that just, when you hear that, you know, you're just like, well, aren't you lucky to even be in that position? You know, I'm not gonna do that. You know, and I was like, well, I never, I still don't feel like I'm in that position to where I get to like, be that choosy. Sure, things are getting better and better and better, but that scared me, you know, that just scared me because it was like, wow. That is, it sounds pompous to me that someone's gonna be able to go and just say that they get to do whatever they wanna do or they're not gonna, 'cause then it translated to me of this zone where it was like, you're not gonna make a living. And then it's not gonna matter anymore in a couple of whatever, it's because you're not gonna have your money for rent. I know that really, it really simplifies things, but it puts you into perspective, you know, where like, suddenly, I don't know, I wasn't all that bummed to go to work anymore when you flip it on that, you know? Now, I've made some moves in my life to try to like go and jump out of situations that maybe I wasn't being, you know, I wasn't being the best worker or the best, whatever. And that was tough, but, you know, or, you know, it was also like cathartic to go do, but, you know, while I was on the clock for someone, I worked hard. I, you know, I can honestly say that, you know, I worked hard, I tried to be a good citizen, I tried to be a good helper, if they wanted me to stay late, I would absolutely stay late. Like all those basic things, you know? Like, I'm proud of that, you know? And I mean, that just comes back to like, how I worked like this, the moment I'm, while we're talking right now, I'm twoing up images for the book. It's mindless stuff, but no one else is gonna do it. I have to do it and I have to get it done because, you know, where I got a book deal and I can count on your vote next April to buy one, you better get one, you better get one, you better get special edition too. I mean, I'm promising. Okay, good, that's three now, three. There's only 9,997 to go, but, you know, I think it's, I'm hoping it's gonna be okay. But, you know, even if I don't sell, you know, all of them, whatever, I still got to make the thing. So I'm pretty excited. - So here's what I loved about that. I love, love how honest it is. I love this approach to, you know, I always felt the same way, looking up to the industry leaders and the people that would kind of say, oh, don't take this job, don't do that. You know, make sure you're always doing this. And I think it's great to be in a position, to be able to turn down work and pick and choose what you wanna do. But if you're just starting out, you have to make your own calls. You have to say what your own values are. And it's good for people in the industry, for newcomers to refuse low fees. So it's good for everybody to make sure that you're asking and demanding the right prices because it keeps the prices high. But sometimes that advice from the leaders of the industry is kind of selfish because they don't want you undercutting them. And so I just really appreciate this idea that, you know, starting out, you don't always get to choose exactly how things go. And you shouldn't be ashamed of having to take those smaller jobs or to have that little peon, graphic design job starting out. And I think there's no shame in that. And you gotta start somewhere. And so I think that that is really great advice. All right, here's a little bit more. - I've seen kids who totally had it and didn't utilize it. Okay, I've seen that. And that's a bummer because it's like, they don't have what the kid next, you know, they have what the kid next to them doesn't have. And then they're like sleeping in class. I saw some of that stuff, right? So then the kid who had to really go and do it and maybe didn't have the same results, like I've seen both of those where the guy totally pulled it off later on because he just worked super hard, you know? And that's just, that's the answer. It's gonna take work. Anyone can develop this stuff. I, you know, do I consider that I have more? I don't really care. You know, I did teach myself how to make logos. I did teach myself how to work hard and love this stuff. I taught myself those things. You know, we're taught, we're trained in other ways that get a little weird to where, you know, I don't know, you know? People will sort of, I don't know. It's like, you know, just sort of like, like, you know, it's like the kid who like says, I can't even draw, why am I doing this stuff? I'll just stop them and say, do you like this? You know, do you like this stuff? Just, I mean, you can, you're doing, you know? I mean, like, I don't know, I just was never really around, like the people saying, you know, no, or something, you know? I was told, yeah, you want to be an illustrator? Let's get you some, my parents, you know? Let's get you some pens and stuff and let's just go for it. My dad was never a master woodworker, but he was absolutely a master woodworker 'cause he just taught himself how to do it, you know? And then, you know, you're around that. So it creates this sort of like, you know, it creates this like, you don't know any better kind of thing, like, 'cause no one's told you that you don't have it or something, well, that's just weird anyway. So, you know, I think you being a teacher, you know, is like a really cool privilege because you get to guide this little punk kid, you know? And it's like, you know, if you were to tell them the day they started class, you don't have what it takes, get out of here, you know? That's like, that's insane. If you just start, you know, and stay, you guys all totally have this. Let's just get going. It just changes the tone. Well, that's when I'm, you know, when I'm 42 years old, that's the same deal, you know? Like, that's how I look at all this crap, you know? I was like, you know, like, what was I just, what did I just had to, oh, something for the book? I had to, I can't remember, but it was like, I wasn't comfortable 'cause, you know, I don't know what I'm doing or whatever the deal was. And it was like, I just had to slow myself down and be like, you know what, this isn't all that rough. You can figure it out. You just gotta go slow, go do some searches on the web, you know, figure stuff out, you know, learn this, learn that, and you know what, before I knew it, I had the way of like, oh, a software stuff. And, you know, with a couple web searches, I had trained myself how to be more efficient to get this stuff into the document, you know? And it was just like, you know, up to that point, I wouldn't have known how to even really use pages or whatever it was that effectively. But after that, I kinda had it down, you know? And that's just a weird thing because now when this zone where like, you see guys who are, you know, they can buy a bloke in a seminar and they're learning and they're learning and they're learning and there's nothing wrong with that. It's great, really. - So here we were just talking about talent versus work ethic and it's something that I've talked about on the show before, but it's probably one of the biggest lessons that I've learned in my career to date. I spent so much time early on worrying about whether I had it or I didn't have it. I think we spend so much time wrapped up in this. I don't even know what it is, like worrying about whether we're destined to be commercial artists or not, or we have the special sauce or we don't. And I, and honestly, all of that worrying and all of that energy spent thinking about whether we really have the potential or not, is just completely a waste of time. And if you use all of that energy and all of that, I don't know, anxiety towards actually getting better and figuring out, use all that energy to figure out what is it that I actually want from this career? Which direction do I really, really wanna go? Do I feel it in my gut? Where am I trying to take this career? And if you spend all that energy figuring that out, once you really figure out and chart a path, spend all that time energy just working on getting better because I really believe that if you really, really want something in your commercial art career, that is the most important thing to know. And spending all the time and energy working on getting better is the best time spent. So I think he's totally right. And yeah, I think those are like really encouraging words for anybody out there that struggles with this idea of, I really wanna do this thing, but I really don't know if I'm cut out for it. Just forget it, quit asking yourself that question, and just get your head down and work on it. So next I asked Draplin about how for a whole career, how has he stayed so hungry and motivated and busy and worked so hard at it? And here's Draplin riffing on that subject. - So where I'm from, it gets a little bit, economically challenged. It's like Northern Michigan, there's some rough patches. Michigan, there's some rough patches. So when you're raised around that, I didn't really even know that my parents had some rough years. I didn't really know because they were cool. They were, it was like there was a lot of love in the house, there was legos, there was creativity. So we were surrounded by all this cool stuff and you don't really know. So you're like shielded from it. And then years later, you find out, it's like, well, all these years there, that still motivates me because it just scares me that things could get rough. Well, I remember when I got out of school and I just wanted to go make a living, right? And I remember being sort of made fun of that by teachers and maybe colleagues around Minneapolis because they were just like, they were being pushed into these loftier things, you know? And that was too pedestrian to say that, but that is just the long and the short of this stuff. It's like, I didn't want to be in a position where I wouldn't have enough to pay my bills or pay my life or pay for any other stuff. And I'm just here to tell you, that's precisely what motivated me to work hard, you know? And then somewhere, and it always feels weird, but be selfish to think that I'm going to actually like it too. Like that still feels like a premium to me, but I actually get to like my job and my life because in some respects around me, that's not what I saw. You know, I saw the contrary where it was, it was a bit scary and it was like, you know, then people get jaded and then, you know, and then it's just scary all around, you know? And I didn't want, I don't want to be one of those guys, I still don't want to be one of those guys. You know, I remember one time we had a guy come into my school, I went to a community college and a guy came into our class who worked for some local like, it's called Whitmark. It was like a showroom kind of deal where you'd go, you know, it was like a target or something. But this Whitmark, this guy came in and he was just, I don't want to say he was negative, but he was already over it. You know, whatever that terminology was for 1991, he was done, he was done and he was, he was just really odd about it. Like he just, you know, here he is telling us what he does and he was so bitter about what he, maybe it didn't work out for him or whatever, but he just really paying this picture of like, oh, like this is going to be a little bit rougher than all of us have any idea about, really. And it scared me. So it's like those moments where you get to hear from a guy that's supposed to be one of the big professionals in your town and then, you know, you show up and he is just kind of like, you know, I mean, he shows up and you're supposed to, I don't even know what, you know, like, he's supposed to like inspire you and it's something completely different. It was scary, it was scary, you know, because it was like, I don't want to be that guy and I don't want to be in that, I don't want to be in that, you know, position where I'm caught. So, you know, it's that kind of stuff. To this day, it still freaks me out, you know, and I work super hard, I work late. You know, I love it, I love being in here. It doesn't really feel like a job, but that's what motivates me. You know, I don't want to, I want to be, you know, be a good provider for my girl and my mom and my sisters. And isn't it just cool that you can do it with graphic design? Like, that to me still feels, I feel really lucky for it, you know, I feel really, really lucky for that because that's not been the case and some other things around, you know, it was tougher, someone didn't get the respect, someone didn't get the good job, someone lost the job, someone got, you know, pushed out of the job because of like, you know, someone was playing favorites. I've seen some weird things, you know, and, you know, so, you just, you know, that stuff's on the tip of your tongue and then every time you sit down to work, you're kind of, you're kind of thinking about it, you know, when you're working hard, you know, it just kind of haunts you. So there's a little bit of that, you know, there's a little bit of that, I don't know. Is that, does any of us even make sense? I don't know, I'm talking so much, you know. - Oh, the holidays are here. You gotta find a unique gift for Uncle Derek and your sister, Catherine, and her kids, Judson, and Jetta, and Geoffrey, and Jacob, and another two Jay kids. There's so much thinking, so much searching. Plus there's the ethical thing, you gotta shop small. It just, it's a lot, but it doesn't have to be. Uncommon Goods makes all of this simple and straightforward for real. The site is chock full of unique and interesting gifts that also support small businesses. My fam loves advent calendars. I think Sophie would like the Stitch of Day advent calendar and 12 days of hot sauce is definitely shouting my name. Sorry, that wasn't me. That was the 12 days of hot sauce calendar shouting. Seriously, we had tons of fun browsing the site for ourselves and kids and family to get 15% off your next gift. Go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk. That's uncommongoods.com/peptalk for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer, uncommon goods were all out of the ordinary. I loved this because I also came from a background where we had enough, but my mom's side of the family or her life and my dad's extended family, there were a lot of people that at times didn't have enough and I was aware of that and I could see that. And I also grew up around friends that sometimes came from families that didn't have everything that they needed. And I guess what I get discouraged with sometimes is in our industry, we get these guys that haven't touched that side of life or at least don't acknowledge that they have and they come from these art school backgrounds and everything's very lofty. But I sometimes worry about what about the kid that is super talented, artistically passionate about the field, but feels like an outsider because he can't do the fancy pants talk and walk and he has to just worry about making ends meet, especially early on. And I think there are those people who feel like this world is not for them. And so I think that it's really important that we acknowledge that you know what? You don't have to come back, you don't have to come from the fancy high-end side of art. You can come from, you can come just like Drake from, you know, come from the bottom, right? And now we're here, right? You don't have to be, you don't have to have these lofty ideas to get started. And yeah, now Draplin's doing the big jobs and doing these awesome things with his art, but it wasn't always like that. And that's totally fine. And so I think we need to make room for growth and learning and no shame in getting started and just being okay with starting from scratch, you know? - You know, my first job was this thing called a nickel ads and there is nothing, nothing cool about it. Like I was redesigning things for ranchers, like ads for ranchers to sell big trailers and stuff, you know, this is in central Oregon. But I remember it being enough for me to get past any of the lament that I wasn't, first of all, I wasn't getting paid anything. I was getting paid like four or five bucks an hour. And then I remember still being thankful for the fact that I didn't have to work in a pizza job. Because you see what I'm saying? In that moment, it was not only a jump up the food chain because I got to work in design. But I was still just excited that I didn't have to go get dirty making pizza. My job before this was making pizza, right? I had a pizza job out on highway, you know, 20. And I'd have to ride my bike all the way out there, which is crazy, you know? And then, you know, like here was, like I didn't even have to ride my bike as far. That was exciting to me. I didn't have to make, you know, be dirty and be around like mean cooks. And then I got to work and be clean. So here's the thing, it's like, why was that enough for me? Because, you know, I don't know. I was raised where like, you know, not sure the grass is always greener, but it's like, I was raised by like, I don't know, like be thankful for what you have, you know? And be able to size it up. And like, you know, here's the thing is like, some guy in a position to go and say, "Take these jobs, take those jobs." That's cool. But he better tell him, he better tell those kids how he got to that point, they got to that point. Because that's not what people do. You know, they get up there and say, it's just gonna be this, that's not, that's not, that's misleading, that's misleading, you know? I mean, you've seen the show and I'll go up there and I'll say, here's what it took to get to this. That's just, it's only fair, you know, but. So, you know, the idea that some kids are gonna get out and it's gonna be rough, at least you're not your pizza job. There you go. That should be enough, that should be enough. It's guaranteed that it's gonna be rough. Let's just call it what it is. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. What is rough? It's rough to have to go to work every day. What about the guy who's like, you know, doesn't have that opportunity? I mean, this is the, this is the, I mean, this is the meat of this stuff. It's like, how dare anybody even think that, you know? I mean, it's like, you see what I'm saying? It's like for some kid, like, not only are you in art school, you turd, but you're alive. You're alive. You have all of your fingers. You have all your, everything's working. And this is, see, and this is what you're worried about. You're worried that, like, you're not gonna go, if you go and you have to do the worst job of your life, at least you get to do it in graphic design. There you go. You know, isn't that just funny that, like, that's something that anybody even gets to even entertain, you know, that like, oh, I'm so sad, or I get to, you know, whatever. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I was around just a smidge of that stuff to freak me out. That's all. I was just around just enough of it to make me like, uh-oh, you know, that's weird. That one's weird, you know, this one, you know, whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, it's a weird thing. - I'm really grateful to have this kind of candid conversation about money, because I think often when it comes to, you know, the conferences and the talks, we often feel like we need to brand ourselves like we have it all figured out. And so often that's misleading, especially to the young people starting out. And I have a real interest and heart and passion for helping people that are just starting out and trying to figure this whole thing out. And I think there's so much shame and worrying that comes along with the fact that this is not an easy profession to hit it big in, right? And so those are just important things to think about. After this, we kind of transition to talking about craft and how you get good at something. We talk about how, you know, Hunter S. Thompson actually was known for writing word for word, classic books like The Great Gatsby, just to get a vibe for what it felt like to write a great novel. And I've always been inspired by standup comedians in their, you know, in their journey. They always talk about immersing themselves within standup comedy, studying the greats, really studying every little tiny move. And of course, this is reflected in Draplin's education, educating himself, listen in. - There's so, so many elements to that. You know, you have to go back, it's like layers of sediment. You have to go back and you have to say, you have to go back to like, okay, we're gonna go way back to the, you know, to the crustatious period or whatever you call it. 'Cause when you go back and you, when you look at that, you kind of say, I remember, I knew how to use freehand which is, you know, sounds archaic, you know. Like, oh, you know, I used a tool to like, carve stuff out of stone or something, you know. But I, but I remember when it flipped over and I had to start using Illustrator because it wasn't as competitive. I could get a version, you know, Photoshop, Illustrator, they worked better together. It was tough, but it just really like, you know, like I had to trick myself. I had to kind of trick myself into like, you know, enjoying it and stuff. And it was like, I don't know how to say, it's like, I remember taking a Coke can and this was on a Friday night. Like everybody else, I remember they're out drinking, you know, whatever, no, and, and, and, and, you know, ripping around and stuff. And it was like, you know, like, I remember, I took a Coke can and I learned, I learned how to, how to redraw it, you know, like in Illustrator. I taught myself all the way through how to make the little teeny little like fizzy bubbles. I taught myself how to redraw the type. I taught myself how to make it look rendered like through, you know, like, you know what, I don't even have the file. I'd love to like send you the file to show you what I'm talking about. Because I remember that being a trying for me to be like, wow, this took a lot of work, but there's no other way to learn this stuff. I mean, I'm just going to have to, I'm just going to have to kind of like, you know, go crazy and, and learn it. So I remember that, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, inherently I just knew like, okay, there's going to be like, just look at the range of stuff here. You know, there is going to be, you know, you look at the range of stuff there, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, there's just, there's so many opportunities to like, you know, I don't know, there was like, there was a game quality to it also, you know, like, so it was like a little game, you know, I just want to, I want to learn and I want to, I want to figure out how this works. And yeah, so I don't know, you know, it's like, it's, it's just funny when you trick yourself and then you're starting to learn because it started to become fun. And then when it became fun, you know, then, then it was fun. Then it was fun. It wasn't this thing where it was this battle. It was like, it was totally fun to start to learn. Like, isn't that just weird? Like any kid who's in class was freaking out, you know, it's like, well, you know, go make this stuff a hobby first. That's one of my, okay, I get all these, I get all these questions, you know, why this, why that, you know what to start to do? They're starting to turn into these funny little things where it's like, they're like little quips. Like I, you know, like a little bumper stickers or something that I'll say. And that's one, that's kind of one of my bumper stickers. It's like, man, this stuff was definitely a hobby way before it became a job. So that means I never, I never really had to fight to learn. You know, it didn't feel like that. It felt just fun. How cool, how cool is that? You know, there's, you know, I don't know. That's stuff I think about. >> I think the interesting point here is making sure that you balance your career, your pursuit to make a living with your interest and what works for you and what you're naturally inclined to do. I think so many times you see these kids, they're trying to white knuckle their way to what they think is on trend, you know. They, they try to force themselves to learn all the skills and all the things that they think are going to be in demand. And although I think it's important to kind of pay mind to that, at the end of the day, you've got to gamify the thing. Like Draplin said, I think you have to lean into your natural curiosities and interests. And when you do that, learning all of a sudden doesn't become this giant chore. So I think he's absolutely right. >> Well, I think here's some, here's a way to learn this stuff. Go make something for your friend's band. I know that that sounds a little like we've heard this out of Draplin 43,000 times, but, but it's the truth. It's like, you know, then you're, then you're using design for something that's not for a grade. You're using design for something that's not for, um, some kind of crass, commercial, whatever, you know. And it's, I don't know that's really interesting to me that's like, that is suddenly like refreshing to us that, you know, like we're using design or something that's just for fun. Because that's really when, you know, like, I just didn't have, you know, it's not like it was really a plan of attack. I didn't have any other opportunities, you know. And then, you know, so you teach yourself because, you know, in the little world around you, excuse me, you're learning how to use this stuff, you know. And then before you know it, you're making a living with it. But that is just so cool. To this day, it's still so cool to me that like, you know, I don't know, that like the moment that it shifted from just being a hobby to actually making a living, it's, it did not feel like work, work, work. It just was cool. It was just cool. Next up, he's going to talk about a little subject called being broke. Now, uh, early on in my career, I had moments where we were broke and I always feel nervous. And I think out of responsibility, lots of people feel this way. I always feel nervous about suggesting taking risks to other people, you know, having the faith to step out and do things that maybe you're a little risky. You know, it doesn't feel responsible, uh, encouraging other people to do that. But the truth is early on, there were tight moments. There were moments where I didn't know what was going to happen. And, uh, this is Draplin speaking on that a little bit. Yeah. Well, right. I mean, I mean, here, you know, here's the thing is, well, here's another great motivator being broke. What about just being regular old broke? I'll tell you what, you'll, you'll quickly, you'll quickly get your act together when you're, when you're just regular old broke, you know, like I've been, I've been, I've been broke a couple of times to where it was embarrassing or it was scary or whatever you want to call it, you know, and I'll just never, that taste, you know, going back to the motivating thing, you know, that motivates me. It's not that I was ever like destitute or anything scary. I just didn't have the resources to go do what I wanted to do, which is basically like buy a computer or whatever it was, right? And I had to go without, that's why I went to Alaska because that's the only way I could get that computer was to go up there and work, you know, and I was embarrassed because there were other sort of people that were just kind of like up there because it was fun. You know, like, oh, I just want to have a fun summer, like that's not why I was up there. I was up there because I was, I was having to work. And you know, that, that, you know, can get, you become really insidious sometimes too, you know, like you can just become really poisonous, that you're like beating yourself up over, you know, and stuff, but you know what, that's some people, that's their path. So, so, it's a big deal. So that's pretty much it. That's all she wrote. I hope that you enjoyed this kind of low key, but informative, encouraging, honest conversation that I had with Draplin and all these great thoughts that he brought to the table. I hope you appreciate the time that he took out to do this. I definitely do. Thank you so much, Aaron. Means a lot to me that you would be part of the show and share these ideas with the listeners. I'm sure they're gonna get tons out of it. Don't forget, you can check this show out at illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. It means so much to me. All the love and support you guys have put into the show and all the sharing and just love that you've put out there, because you know what? This is a labor of love in so many ways. And yeah, I try to bring the best stuff I can every week. So, thanks Draplin for helping me make that happen this week. And I'm gonna let him close out the show. Thanks guys, speak soon. - Well, yeah, well, thanks for having me, man. I don't know, I mean, I wish I would've heard a little bit of what we're rapping about a while ago. Because you spend time inventing it for yourself. And then you gotta jump on certain things and certain stuff. But it's like, you know, I don't know. It's weird because, I don't know, it's weird because, you know, if I would've heard like, it's okay, you can chill out a little bit and just enjoy yourself. That would've been so much better to hear that. You know, I didn't hear that. I heard, you know, it's gonna be, you know, I just didn't hear anything, you know? And it's, you know, when I finally got to that point where, you know, I don't know. You know, it wasn't a job, it was just fun. You know, it's like, you know, I just was so thankful that like, I just, I don't know, but it just didn't get sort of like tainted with like, oh, you're gonna hate all this stuff, you're gonna hate it, you know, you're not gonna attain it. You know, like, you know, like, that's trained like anything else. It's trained to be like, you know, to think that, you know, you have the right to like complain about everything. And listen, I'm human, I'm human, I do it. I get mad, I get, you know, I get nasty, I get mean, cry, freak out, whatever. I mean, serious, you know, whatever. You know, and it's like, but, you know, I always drown myself, I always, I can always come on, I can, I come flying back to like, everything's cool, everything's cool. I'm lucky to be alive, you know, I'm lucky to be alive. You know, my heart's beating, you know, it's kind of steady. So... (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine, and I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately, and if you want to check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you want to test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself, and when you're ready to launch use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. - I did consider Barney a friend, and he's still a friend to this day. - The idea of Barney is something that I want to live up to. You know, I love you, you love me. I call it the purple mantra. - Barney taught me how to be a man. - Generation Barney, a podcast about the media we loved as kids and how it shapes us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music)