Creative Pep Talk
043 - The Pencil is the Path
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. Oh, the holidays are here, you gotta find a unique gift for Uncle Derek and your sister Catherine, and her kids, Jetson, and Jetta, and Jeffrey, and Jacob, and another two Jay kids. There's so much thinking, so much searching. Plus, there's the ethical thing, you gotta shop small, just, it's a lot, but it doesn't have to be. Uncommon Goods makes all of this simple and straightforward for real. The site is chocked full of unique and interesting gifts that also support small businesses. My fam loves advent calendars. I think Sophie would like the Stitch-a-Day advent calendar, and 12 days of hot sauce is definitely shouting my name. Sorry, that wasn't me, that was the 12 days of hot sauce calendar shouting. Seriously, we had tons of fun browsing the site for ourselves and kids and family to get 15% off your next gift. Go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk, that's uncommongoods.com/peptalk for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer, uncommon goods, we're all out of the ordinary. (upbeat music) Hey, you're listening to the creative and the Peptalk podcast with me, graphic illustrator, Andy J. Miller. This show is about finding clarity and strategy so that you can maximize your creative career. You can find this show on iTunes or on my site, Andy-J-Miller.com/podcast or on the illustration website, illustrationage.com/creativepeptalk. Without further ado, let's get down to business. Art, business. I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's Fluid Engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So go check it out squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself. And when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTalk, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. - Hey everybody, it's the Creative Peptalk podcast. How are you guys doing today? I'm feeling pretty fantastic. I'm also feeling kind of like a psychopath because I woke up at 4 a.m. to do the podcast today. I wanted to kick this week off right and get started, get a bunch done before most people got out of their beds. Will I regret it later today? Probably, but here I am. I am here ready to deliver the podcast. I'm super excited about today's episode. I feel like sometimes on the podcast, I might unload a crazy amount of information on you. And today, instead of doing that, I wanted to kind of dive deeper into some of the ideas we've already talked about and go onto a different level with those ideas to make them more effective and give more clarity to those ideas that I think are really important. Before we jump into the podcast, let me just give you two quick announcements or news bits. Number one is that the Patreon is doing super well. The patrons keep going up. If you wanna go back the podcast financially, you can go to patreon.com/creativepeptalk. Now, one note is that right now, I'm only allowing 10 people to back the podcast at the $10 level, which is paying $10 per episode of the podcast. And with that, one of the things you get is a portfolio review/strategy review, which I evaluate your portfolio. I ask you some questions and then I think a lot about it. And then I get back to you with my thoughts. And on the $10 tier, you get that four times a year. And with that process, basically, I'm gonna say what I think's working, what I think isn't working, and then a challenge for the next season until the next review in the next quarter. So that's the idea. Now, the thing is there's only one more place for that. So eventually I might extend that when I get into a rhythm, but right now I know that it's gonna be hard to get to even 10 people. And so I'm just starting to figure that out. And I might raise it up one day, but right now there's one place left. Today, after day today, that might be gone. So just to let you know, that's going awesome. Thank you to my patrons. You guys are awesome, and I have been really enjoying the community that started there, the interaction that I've had with you guys has been super awesome. So thank you for that. My second thing, I have a little contest from a sponsor called Baron Fig. They make really great sketchbooks for creative people. And they have partnered with the Creative PEP Talk podcast, thanks to Daniel Fischl for connecting us. He's an awesome illustrator. You should go check his workout. Baron Fig has given me some different prizes to give away as promotional items on the podcast. And so here's what we're gonna do. This week, I'm gonna be giving away one of their confidant sketchbooks, and it's got the dot grid on the paper, and it's really nice. It comes in a nice hard box, and I will post that to the selected winner. And here's the contest. I want you to either draw something or take visual notes to this episode of the podcast. This episode is, the pencil is the path. Draw something or take visual notes, take a picture of it, or scan it, put it on Instagram, and tag me in the picture. My Instagram handle is Andy J M L L R. Tag me in it, and you can say something about the episode or whatever, and you can talk about the podcast and share it. I will select one winner, and I will send you the confidant Baron Fig sketchbook in the mail. That is the deal. Now, I have more to give away, and we're gonna do different things each time, but that's the first contest, so get on that. All right, let's get into the content for today. Today's episode is called The Pencil is the Path. So, if you're not familiar with The Pencil and the Stone Idea, that's from a few episodes ago. You can listen to this podcast and it stands on its own, but if you wanna dive deeper into this or you wanna know more about that, go back to the episode, The Pencil and the Stone, or go to my blog where there's even more details on the pencil of the stone in the stone, and that'll give you some more information about this idea. Today, though, I wanted to explain more about what I meant by The Pencil and the Stone and how you can get the most out of this idea, and how you can get the most clarity and effectiveness by looking at this and looking at your path and your creative career in the way that gets you the most out of it, that helps you feel the most fulfillment and enjoyment as you go along, and also gets the best results. So, I wanted to kick it off with just a little disclaimer about logic versus magic. This is an idea that I came up with a long time ago, and then I read about it in Stephen Pressfield's Art, no, War of Art, I almost said it wrong again, the War of Art, that book, he talks about the same idea, it's something I've had in my mind for a long time. It's this idea that lots of people like to look at the world through the lens of logic, through rational thought. Everything is practically there. It's everything that you can see in the observable universe. That is what there is, and there is nothing else. There are lots of other people that see the world completely on the other side of the spectrum. They see everything as magic. Nothing is excluded from being pushed and pulled and nudged, by spiritual, mysterious forces that play on our universe, and that the most important things in the world are the invisible things. And I've said to you before in the podcast that I probably lean towards the magic side. However, I feel probably most comfortable holding both intention. Everything is magic, everything is logic. Everything is magic, everything is logic, and I wanted to give you this disclaimer. Today, I'm going to talk in a lot of metaphor. I'm going to talk about some seemingly mysterious or spiritual ways, and I don't want that to put you off if you don't see the world that way. Everything that I say can be seen as a practical metaphor that is maybe a mysterious metaphor that it's explaining a practical truth, or you can go ahead and push a little bit further and believe that there is more to it than practical truth, or there's a deeper layer. Whatever you want, you take. Whatever you don't want, leave. But I try to hold that intention. I try not to talk about things that don't have practical application, that don't have physical, practical truth in this world, not just some running through the field's weird world. That's the disclaimer. Okay, first I want to talk about my pits. I want to talk about my pits, the pencil and the stone. That's what it spells out, P-I-T-S, pencil in the stone, pits. I want to talk at the worst thing ever, which makes it good, because I don't want to take myself too seriously. But my pencil in the stone, my journey, my journey has been as a kid I used to draw cartoon and comic book characters. I used to draw Super Saiyan 4 Goku's from Dragon Ball Z. I used to make up my own Dragon Ball Z characters. I used to make up my own Beast Wars. My own Transformers, my own G.I. Joe's. I used to draw a lot of cartoons where I would learn a style of a cartoon and I would make up my own characters. The next path or road that I took was one of art for music, either posters or merch. And then after that, I explored patterns and colors and filling spaces with all kinds of different lines and shapes. After that, I focused on work for kids, illustration for kids. Now, each part of the journey could seem disconnected. They could seem like different things or completely different universes. But everyone is a road that built on the last road. Everyone was another brick in the wall of the pencil and the stone. Each piece plays on the previous piece. Each piece is like a song in the album of your life. The album being the pencil in the stone. And my point today is that there is this old story. It's not a new thing. The pencil in the stone idea is not a new idea. It's a new interpretation. It's a new telling of an old story. And I think those are the best things because I think truth is as old as the universe. And the pencil in the stone is an old story told in a new way. And you've heard it a billion times and it's this, that the journey is the destination. Right? Is that the pencil in the stone is not an end goal. It's not a destination out in the future. And I realized that I might have been confusing when I said you had to have one thing that you were shooting for. You had to have something out in the horizon that was very specific and you had to head towards that thing. And I gave you examples of different roads you could take. Like for instance, at some point I could have taken editorial illustration road. I could have taken kids book road. I could have taken logo design road. I could have taken ban march road. I could have taken all these different roads, but each road is not a different pencil choice. Each road is heading towards the ultimate goal. What is the ultimate goal? That's what I want to talk about today. The ultimate goal is to be on the right path because the pencil is the path. The ultimate goal is to be as close to your center point as possible for as much time in your life. The center is the perfect balance between skills. The things that you're really, really good at. The things that you're exceptional at. The things that when you do them, it's a natural extension of who you are and what your DNA says you are. Your passion. It's the center point between your passion and your skills. Your passion means you're doing work that you're obsessed with. There's a big demand. The demand in the market is the next point. The work you're doing has found an audience. If you're here because you're a commercial artist because that's what this podcast is about making a living doing art. The demand is there are people who love your work. They're willing to purchase it. They're willing to pay for it. You've found a place in the market where people are connecting in a profound way to what you do to the work you do. That's balanced with that outside demand is balanced with an inside calling. The calling means that the work that you're doing feels fulfilling. It feels meaningful. It feels purposeful. There's a why. There's a reason you're doing it. It propels you forward internally. The pencil and the path isn't the path or the pencil in the stone isn't the path that you're on. It's not the work that it's not the direction that you're headed. It's being in the center of those four things for as much time as possible. The tower that you're running to, that metaphor that you're pointing everything towards going to this tower out in front of you. It's not a destination. The tower is a center point on the journey. It's being on that path. The tower isn't up ahead. It's doing the work today that is the best balance of those four things. That is where you set your marker. You want to be in that point of perfect balance between these things. That's the thing. That's the one thing that you're heading towards. That's the specific point on the map. It's not a specific style. It's not a specific, it's not even the road. The road is the road. It's not even the road, the path that you take. It's not the direction that you go. It's being in the center of those things. I feel like people have come to me and reiterated to things that I've said and I realized that maybe I could uncover this more. I could say it's not about only doing one thing exactly. It's not about that you find that your pencil in the stone is kids books and then you do kids books for the rest of your life and you say no to everything else. No, you find, you look at all the possible opportunities and roads that you could take at this given time in your life and you find which one in this season of your life keeps you in that center point balance of those four things. The skills and passion demand in calling. Whichever road is at the center point of that, whichever work you can be doing today, whichever direction you could be taking, it's taking that direction and committing to that direction until it's no longer at the center of these points. We're going to talk a little bit more about that. I think that this idea, a good way to look at it is like think of a big chunk of marble and it's a big perfect rectangular box of marble. Formless vague means nothing. That's you at the beginning of your walk. That's the pencil in the stone. You're looking at the block and it's very vague. Just like me at the beginning, I was drawing all kinds of different cartoons. I was drawing all kinds of different logos. I was drawing all kinds of different things at the beginning. It was all very vague. When you looked at it, you thought the pencil in the stone could be drawing things. You hack away a little bit at the stone. As different parts are revealed, you're like, "It's not just drawing things, it's drawing things for bands, for music." When you look at the stone, you think, "It's going to be a man. The stone's going to be a man." You cut a little bit more away and you say, "No, it's not just a man. It's a ninja." It's a ninja. You cut a little bit more away and you take a new road. As you carve it away, you realize it's not just a ninja. It's not just a man, it's not just a ninja. It's not just a man ninja. It's a turtle ninja. It's a ninja turtle. You cut away at that road and then you reveal a little more. It's not just a man, it's not just a ninja, it's not just a turtle. It's a teenager. It's so dumb. You keep cutting away and it's not just a man, not just a ninja, not just a turtle. It's actually an orange turtle with nunchucks who makes jokes. It's Nick. It's Michelangelo. I'm talking about, but my whole point is this. As every road you take towards your destination, towards that center point of these four things, it gets more specific and every previous road plays on the new road. When you thought it was a man, you realized it wasn't a man. It was a turtle down the road. That meant that sometimes when you head towards a road, you think you're going to get to the tower on the road at the end of the road, but eventually it veers off to a different direction and you have to reevaluate your path. You have to go into a new season. You have to choose a new road. For me, there was a time in my life when I thought I'm going to make work, illustration and design for music for the rest of my life, but at some point, I hit a dead end and had to realize I need to reevaluate the direction that I'm going. I did the matrix again and I tried to plot out what's the next road that seems like the center point of skills versus passion, demand versus calling, and then take that road. That's one more step. That's one step from man to ninja. From ninja to ninja turtle, from ninja turtle to the orange one named Michael Angelo. He's my favorite turtle. Every step of the way you're getting closer and more specific and every step previous plays onto the new one and you use things and you use things from the past roads on the new roads. You build on top of each other. Each one is a brick in the wall. I think what happens is eventually you walk further and further down the road. You get to the tower at the end. You get to the pencil in the stone and you realize that the stone is empty. There's nothing in the stone and the pencil has been with you the whole time. It's been pencil that you've been using to make the work the whole time. Now another thing that I wanted to clarify and kind of push a little bit further is this idea that you do need to focus on your center point. You do need to decide what is my central desire? What is my central direction that I want to head? You can do that with multiple styles. You can do that with a specific style but you need to chart a path. I want to go this direction in the industry. It's basically choosing a market or another lens that clarifies the type of work you do. As you head down that road, that doesn't mean that there aren't times for pit stops. If you think about this being some kind of long epic journey like your Frodo destroying the ring, there are times when there's an imbalance. You find yourself imbalanced and it doesn't mean you have to take a different road ultimately but it means that you need to make a pit stop. There are times when you're on your journey and things get out of whack and the demand lowers on the spectrum. Now you're out of whack because the money's not coming in. You have to make a pit stop and you have to do some work in a local village that's off the path. As you do that, as you do that local work in the village that's a little side thing that brings in some money. You can go get back on your path and the cool thing is whatever you learn and take, usually I feel like if you want to get weird, get mysterious, when you win the balance is imperfect and something stops you and you have to take a pit stop. It's not because things are going wrong most of the time. It usually means that there's something in that pit stop. There's something in that town that you need for the rest of the journey and so it manifests itself as you have to take a part-time job or you have to take on some work that doesn't perfectly fit the direction that you're going in. But if you discern in the moment and it feels like the right thing and you feel that imbalance or sometimes you're imbalanced, you feel like the money's all there but the calling's gone and I need to stop and I need to meditate. I need to take a breather, a sabbatical and when you come back the calling's fresh again because you understand why you're doing it. There are times when you have to make pit stops. It's not just about doing that same thing forever and never pausing or never going and exploring some other territory. I think that the other side to this is that sometimes there's going to come a time and it's not going to just be one day. It's going to be multiple days, days upon days upon days upon days. So don't just think of the things that are out of balance. I better go jump on a different road. That can be a lack of commitment to the direction that you've taken and if you haven't committed, you're going to let the resistance of things trying to stop you and they're going to push you off the road and you're not going to do the work you're supposed to do because it's going to be hard, they're going to be things in the way, they're going to be days you don't feel like it but you have to keep trudging forward and that's why you need to commit for a season towards a direction. However, this is the disclaimer, there's going to come a time when a road that you've taken that's been right for days, months, years maybe that have now it's starting to head away from that tower, it's going the wrong direction, the towers north and it's starting to veer off east and too hard of a turn. This is when the balance is out of whack, you've never been more skilled in the work but you've never cared this little, you've never been this, you've never had so little passion for the work or maybe you've never been, the money's never been greater. The money is out of this world but the calling's gone, completely gone, depleted, it's meaningless work now. Maybe you still feel extremely called to the work but there's no money, there's no money at all to be found so you have to do something different. These are the dead ends and these are the beginnings of new seasons and that happens because there are multiple roads that take you to the end destination. So, I realize that's a lot of like metaphorical speaking but I'm really talking about commercial art, I'm talking about plotting your journey on the path to go the direction that you should go where you find that center point because I believe the ultimate goal is finding the center point of these four things and the reason why is because I believe that being smack dab in the middle of these things, that is the pencil and the stone, that is the purpose, that's the place you want to be, that's where you find the most fulfillment, that's when life is worth living, that's when art is worth being made for, it's that is where you want to be, that's the ultimate goal is to stay in that zone and there's different roads that keep you in that zone and every new season brings a different part of that path and so you might have went to school for graphic design but you got out of school and now the opportunities are leading towards illustration, you might have been in a band at one point and that was the pencil and the stone for you, that was the center point of these things but eventually you had to leave and become a type designer because that was the, that was where the road was leading and so I really think that this applies even as mystical and maybe epic as it sounds which feels a little bit ridiculous because we're talking about drawing pictures but I believe that for me at least this helps me stay in that zone and the real value of it, what I found was the reason why this was such a big deal to me is that I was on the phone with a friend and I was getting all bent out of shape and he was like I'm not really sure what it is you're struggling with because from the outside it looks like you're doing great and when he said that I realized that I didn't know what this discontent thing was, I didn't know why I was aggravated with my path and when I stopped and said what is it that I'm shooting for, that's when I came up with these four different places in this center point of this and realized that is what I'm shooting for, I'm shooting for a place where I'm really exceptionally good at something and I also really love doing it, I'm shooting for a place where I internally feel pushed towards it, not calling towards it but also when I do it there's an audience that is excited about it and that's the place where I'm trying to find what is that work that I need to be doing and when I found that work that is the work that I love to do, that's the creative endeavors that I'm most interested in doing, it's when I feel like I'm right where I need to be and that feeling is better than any feeling in the world for me and it's not just about work. This thing, I'm talking about creative work in your creative career because that's what this podcast is about but that center point actually has other components that have to do with your relationships and your family and your life outside of work but we're just talking about work. I believe that there are basically three cornerstones to stain on the path, how do you stay on the path because I think the only thing that disqualifies you is staying home, that's the thing that disqualifies you, making an effort to be in this center point, that's what counts and I think there are three things that really, really help on this. Number one is a hunger, so never being stagnant, never feeling like you've made it, never always keeping your eyes peeled and your ears to the ground. What does this look like? I think it looks like always being curious, always staying that way. I was talking with my friend Abe, this car and we're working on some collaborative work, he's a designer and he has this idea that one of the most important things about being a good artist is staying curious and I totally agree and I believe this looks like every relationship, every new person you meet, you kind of see them as this is a possible angel in my life, here to push me in more in the right direction or I'm in the place to push them in the right direction or vice or both at the same time as it usually is, it means that you're always keeping your ear to the ground, you're always listening, you're always looking out, you're always plotting your next steps for the next day and while your competition is sitting, stagnant, thinking they've got it all figured out, you're thinking about what's around the bend, what's the next day look like and excited about where is the next point. So I think hungry, staying hungry is seems like it's a real cornerstone to the people that go on to live lifelong successful creative endeavors. Always always thinking about that next place, always being cautious and noticing when the scales of skills versus passions and demand versus callings are starting to get out of whack. And I think the number two thing is humility and I think if oil, sorry if hunger is the oil, humility is the vinegar, I don't know why I always go back to this, Italian dressing thing, but I like Italian dressing, so maybe that's why. These are the two things that working together, the hunger, the excitement, the drive mixed with the humility. Always knowing that you could have taken the wrong path. You know what's the pride of the rabbit that causes him to believe that he's won the race before he has and take a nap and lose the race. Humility always keeps you on your toes, it always keeps you in the moment discerning am I still on the path? Am I still going the right direction? And knowing maybe I'm not. And I think if hunger is the oil and humility is the vinegar, then the bottle that holds these things in unison, that holds the Italian dressing, is grace. I know that sounds ultra spiritual, but it's not. Grace is this idea that is if you're staying hungry and you're staying humble, then grace will make it so that nothing gets wasted. I've found so many times, right, that as I'm hungry looking for the path and I'm trying to be teachable and always learning, and even if I'm teaching, I'm also the student. If I'm always going that direction, if I end up on the wrong path at a dead end, it's the journey, the grace of the journey means that I find something on that dead end that puts me ahead of anywhere I could have ever been had I never taken a side road the wrong way. That's the grace and that grace actually believing that even if I'm on the wrong path, there's going to be, it's going to be used to my advantage in a way that I could have never been, it'll help me go further than I could have ever gone had I never gone on that side road. If you think like that, if you want to look at it in a logical way, what that means is it keeps you believing that everything you do you're going to learn from and it's going to push you further, even if you're doing the wrong thing, means that you can always be confident about the work that you're doing. And if anything, if it's not magical grace, but it's just a way of believing that every effort you make is going to be worth something, it means that you can pour your all into each moment because nothing keeps you from doing great creative work like not believing in the work you're doing. If you don't think you can pass the test, you don't study at all. But if you think there's a chance and you think every thing that I do in some way is going to help, if you believe that even if I meet a dead end, I'm going to find some treasure that's going to make it so that I can go further on my path and I could had I not gone down that path. If you hold the oil in the vinegar of humility and hunger together in the bottle of grace, I believe that is what keeps you on your path. That's what if you do those three things, you can't be disqualified from the path. The only thing that disqualifies you is not moving, is staying still, is staying at your home and we know that living things that don't grow and move, decompose and eventually die. You know, this is super cheesy, but I really like this picture. I think at the when you go and you're finding that center point and you're on your path and you're headed out and you're walking along and one day you finally get to the stone at the end where the pencil is supposed to sit. You're going to realize that the stone is, there is no pencil on the stone and you're going to look back and that yellow brick road is the pencil that you look back, it's ridiculous, that analogy, but you look back and the road is the pencil, the journey has been the pencil, that being on that path and that center point, that's the goal in that the stone at the end is the grave. That's the end point, that's the end of your life and you've been on the road making the work creating the master work of your life of creative output and each step along the way built on the previous step. And so yes, you take different roads, but ultimately they're combining to create the master work and that's the idea. And so I wanted to dive a little bit deeper because I felt like there was confusion like I was saying, you had to have this specific like you only do this kind of work in this kind of way and you do that forever and ever. And I just realized that I wasn't being very specific about what I meant by having a clear destination and I didn't mean having a clear destination like, yeah, I do think it's important to have a goal, I think it's important to commit to a road for a period of time. So I think it's important to say, hey, I want to do a logo for a giant corporation or whatever it is you want to do. I want to do that and I'm going to commit to that until I can do that. And I'm going to head that direction for a specific period of time and I'm going to try to do it in this kind of way and I'm going to and as you go down that road that the pencil in the stone isn't that goal, it's that this work is the center point of those four things. And in that center point, that's where you find fulfillment and excitement and that's the place you want to be. That's the thing you're shooting for is the right road. It's not the end of the road like boys to men into the road. I'm not going to, I almost say it, I'm not going to, but that's my point. I hope that helps clarify some of this stuff. I hope that, I hope this was a helpful episode. It was kind of a weird one. It was really kind of metaphor driven, but I really believe in this stuff and it's helped me a ton to get some clarity on what I'm trying to do and what it is. And when I realized this is what I'm shooting for, I'm finding the place where the demand and the passion and the skill and the calling all intersecting in this one place. And when I'm in that place and all of that stuff is working together, that's where I'm like, yes, this is it. This is the destination. This is the, that's the place I'm trying to go. Okay, that's it for today. Thank you so much for the awesome iTunes reviews. You guys are awesome. It's helping the podcast grow into new audiences. And if this thing's helping you, then I'm hoping that you want that for other people. You know, I pictured myself and I thought creative people should be like the giant whales. You know, you want to be, you want to have a great awesome big career like in the ocean and you're, but you're not out there trying to eat. You're not like the orca whales who are out there, killer whales. They go out and kill for sport and kill the other whales and all that jazz. You want to be like the big blue whales that just, you know, peacefully graze upon the little like microorganisms, you know, and they're the peaceful giants and they're out there. And I imagine they're leading the other, what am I talking about? I just, all I'm saying is that I think that, you know, I try to be, I have this idea of abundance of work, that there's an abundance of work out there. You just have to find the right stuff. And if you help other people do that, that you're better off for it. I really believe that. So if you believe that, go give iTunes reviews, go share the podcast. And you know, I think when you do that, you're actually helping yourself at the same time. So thanks guys. Go check, go do that Baron big. Go do your drawing for that and tag me in the Instagram. Go check out the Patreon. Thanks for your time. I will be back soon. And also for you $5 plus backers, I'm going to have a peppy talk out later this week. I will speak to you soon and until next episode, stay peped up. Hey, y'all. One more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine. And I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately. And if you want to check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you want to test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself. And when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thank Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. I did consider Barney a friend, and he's still a friend to this day. The idea of Barney is something that I want to live up to. I love you. You love me. I call it the purple mantra. Barney taught me how to be a man. Generation Barney, a podcast about the media we loved as kids and how it shapes us. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING]