Creative Pep Talk
013 - It's Commercial Art, Not Impersonal Art
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300 and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hello, it's the creative Peptalk podcast, and this is me, Andy J. Miller, your host, design-esque illustrator, and this is a show for visual artists who work in commercial fields, and you know, it's just different perspectives and thoughts to maybe help enable some kind of mental breakthrough in your approach to your work. So, I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice, too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro, and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's Fluid Engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding, that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So, go check it out, squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself, and when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls, and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or AndyJPizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. - All right, I like to confess things on here. You know, I get, I have this weird thing where I, I don't filter who it is I'm like listening to if I'm interested in them. I just, you know, I don't think is this cool or good or whatever, I like to, I don't know, I go down the rabbit hole, which I'm sure you guys all do on the internet sometimes. And somehow I ended up watching Oprah interviewing Pharrell. And I think it's because I heard that he like broke down and cried his eyes out. And I don't know why that's interesting, but it sounds interesting. And it might be so interesting that you're gonna go watch that. But, you know, yeah, so it was a pretty good interview actually. And, but the thing that stuck out to me the most is that he talks a lot about how, you know, he spent a lot of time doing production and writing for other people and other artists and being kind of the guy behind the scenes to a certain degree or the guy on the side. And that at some point after doing all this work that he had done a solo album. And he said that when he did that solo album that it was very much, you know, braggy and all this stuff. And that he, you know, he was friends with Jay-Z and P. Diddy. And he wanted to do what they were doing. And he wanted to be like them. And that really stood out to me because I think that that, I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. I just think that there's a time and place for that. There's a time and a place to emulate. But if you never get past that season in your work, your work never really breathes. It never really goes anywhere. It never really speaks to anybody. And, you know, I think the good news is the more work you do, the more that naturally happens. The bad news is that A, developing an authentic kind of voice in your work, that A, it takes a lot of time. And then B, it is fairly painful, I think. And it does, I actually don't know if it's super, like a thing that just completely naturally happens. I think that actually there's a lot of intention behind it. I think it's a lot of time alone making bad work, making bad stuff. And, you know, I'm really grateful that, you know, after college that I spent time, that I got fed up with the work that I was doing, the stuff that didn't feel like my own voice, 100%. And, you know what, I just started filling up sketchbooks and I started just making tons and tons of work. And, and actually just thinking a lot about who I was, what things emotionally really grabbed me and moved me. And, you know, dove deeper into all of these things. I think that, I think the thing about commercial art, maybe the biggest myth is that it's, because it's commercial, that it's less, that it's art that's less deep or less personal. And, I think that when you approach any type of art that way, becomes inauthentic and inauthentic art is dead on the page and it doesn't speak to you. And, just because you're doing it for a client, doesn't mean that the work doesn't need to speak. And so, yeah, I thought a lot about that and I thought, you know, he talked about how later when he made his second album that was a big success and it was, you know, all kinds of components to that, that he had had a sense of who he was and what his purpose was and how that differed from the people that he was around or his friends. And, I really thought a lot about how, you know, how I really believe that every person has a very, very different path to every other person. And, there comes a time when you have to quit wanting what other people have and quit wanting the success or the accolades that someone else has or the, you know, there comes a time when you need to stop going down that avenue, stop comparing yourself to someone else, stop, you know, explicitly following the footsteps of your heroes and do something uncomfortable do something unique, do something that you don't know if other people are going to think is cool because you haven't seen other people do it. Those things, you know, early on, I feel like I was pretty aware of the moments when I was, you know, I did that nod project where I was gonna make 260 characters, I was gonna make one every weekday for a year and I was gonna write under it about these characters and the writing thing to me was the weird thing. I thought here I am, you know, I'm working in professional illustration and I'm gonna start writing these things under these characters and I'm gonna start developing this kind of make-believe universe and even though there's comics and stuff out there, I didn't know anybody that was doing that and I didn't know if it would just not translate into the industry that I was in, if anybody would care or if, by putting myself in my thoughts and my feelings and my emotions and expressing myself through that writing combined with these characters, whether, I don't know, that would hurt my reputation more than it would help it. And then I think, you know, it's been and even this podcast is the same thing, like, it's something uncomfortable that, you know, I've seen other people in other industries do similar things where they're not doing interview podcasts but they're just kind of putting different thoughts on their own out there in kind of a monologue kind of thing and, but I hadn't seen someone do this in our industry and, you know, I think it's, once you start learning to notice that you're feeling those ways, you start to pick up on, this thing is unique to me. This is something that other people aren't doing. Instead of making that, instead of those things, making me want to run and hide and not do those things, it means, to me, it starts peeking my interest and thinking, okay, this is the exact type of thing that I need to be doing. But yeah, you know, I'm going back to this and thinking about, you know, work that people get, what's that all about, what's it about when a piece of work speaks to somebody in a strong way, in a way that makes people want to show other people the work, that makes people want to react to it, makes people want to buy it, to use it. What kind of work is that? And I think, you know, I think a lot about, I feel like all the people that I know that do successful illustration or successful commercial artists, they talk about an experience or digging deeper within themselves, setting themselves apart in a unique way and having a voice and having a perspective. And I think that the thing that really screws us up is that the idea of commercial art, somehow in our minds, even if we want to do commercial art, somehow in our minds, we accept this idea that doing commercial art means doing less personal art. It means doing something with less of your perspective in it. It means being an art factory. And actually I think, you know, I've heard artists talk about how when a client comes to them and they get all this pressure to perform and produce something that fits within the bounds of advertising or editorial illustration or a logo or whatever. And actually the times they start learning, the times that this goes well, is when they do the same thing that they would do for themselves, that the work looks the same as if they produce it themselves. And the reason why is because that's what they're coming to you for. That's what they're paying for. They're paying for your art, your thing, who you are. They're not paying you hopefully to do what someone else is doing. If they are, those aren't the good jobs. And so yeah, this is kind of, this is something I've been thinking about, thinking about, you know, asking yourself, in what ways am I trying to live someone else's life? You know, one thing that I think for Elle said on there is that he said that if you're trying to be JZ, you're always gonna be second place. And I've always thought that too. You know, if you're trying to be someone else, you're always gonna be second to them because they're them. So you're always gonna be, you know, playing second fiddle or whatever. So I think that it's really valuable early on. I do really believe in the idea of the whole, you know, mentoring, master, teaching, emulation. Like, emulating people early on, I think is a really big deal. And it's a really positive thing. And I wish that our culture supported that better. You know, I wish there was a kind of a more socially acceptable time in your career at art school or whatever, where you are copying people and you're learning the crafts and your, because I feel like once you get that stuff under the way, then the good stuff starts to come. Once you start knowing how to develop an image, that's when it starts to get, that's when you have all these tools under your belt, that's when you actually get to say something now. And your own inadequacies aren't kind of getting in the way of being able to talk about something with your work. And so I, you know, I feel like a really good practice is to sit and think, you know, in what ways am I, you know, trying to emulate someone else? In what ways, what projects have been kind of sitting in the back burner that I'm a little bit afraid to do because I don't have any, you know, I don't see anybody else out there doing that. And I don't have anything, there's nothing I've seen out there that's justified doing this project. You know, and these are the things, these are the projects that you need to run to. You need to run to the place where you're gonna be alone in the industry. And, you know, I think that really embracing the idea that there's no one that's ever going to have the same career as you. And there's no one that ever has. And I think being comfortable in that uncomfortable place is so key to finding your true art and what your real voice and your real perspective. - The holidays are upon us and finding the right gift for your kids, nieces and nephews and partner and family members can be super difficult, but it doesn't have to be. Go check out Uncommon Goods. Sophie and I were checking it out the other day, looking for gifts for our kids. They have a make your own storybook kit, which we love. There's this cardboard tool kit with a cardboard saw that's safe and connectors so you can build cool stuff and forts and whatnot. They also got these building connectors where you can connect sticks and make a fort. Mainly, I just like forts, but there's tons of cool creative gifts that will inspire your kids to go make stuff, but we could also easily have just bought stuff for each other or even ourselves. This curated selection of goods means you don't have to scour the internet for something unique and exciting and you're supporting artists and small businesses at the same time, which you know I love. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk. That's uncommongoods.com/peptalk. For 15% off, don't miss out on this limited time offer, uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. - When you need meal time inspiration, it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouth-watering meals. And no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices. Plus extra ways to save, like digital coupons, worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points. So you can get big flavors and big savings, king supers, fresh for everyone, fuel restrictions apply. - And what do I think that looks like practically? For me, what it looked like was research and development, research and development. And so what I did was I made a giant catalog of all the things that really moved me. Not, I tried to think about, not the things that I thought were cool. I tried to eliminate that idea. I tried to focus on what were the things that uniquely moved me, like actually struck a strong emotion in me. You know, looking back at my childhood, Alison Wonderland and Wizard of Oz, those were two things that really struck a chord with me. And the funny thing is, is at the time, I'm not even, if you would've asked me as a six year old or something, or how I've rolled, I was, I don't know, did you like those movies? I might've even said no. But I would've told you, they make me feel really weird. They had, I remember those two movies, more than anything else, warranted this strong response. And the only way I described it is, it made me feel like there was something else going on behind what these movies were. And there definitely are, those stories are about other things than what the stories are on the surface level. And that became something I wanted to do in my work when I'd kind of realized that. Even Dr. Seuss, I felt like had that. You know, he had a lot of hidden characters, you know, hiding behind things and that. And I realized hiding in a sense of like, I'm looking at something, but there's something behind what I'm looking at that I'm unsure about there. I don't understand, but it gives me a sense of kind of wonder, sense of, sense of, I don't, almost a little bit off-putting like. And that was something, I noticed that thing about myself and I thought, I'm gonna put that in my work. And then I researched back further and I tried to pinpoint things that just, what were the visceral experiences? Another one was Charlie Brown. I remember watching Charlie Brown Christmas. And I remember, as a kid, it being one of the first things that I encountered, first types of media that I encountered, that had kind of melancholy in its spectrum. And it spoke to me 'cause I think I, you know, I was kind of a, I had a sad side to me as a kid. You know, I've talked on the podcast before that my mom had left when I was a kid and that, you know, I think that that left, there was a part of me that was kind of sad. And I remember watching Charlie Brown Christmas and it has that sad jazz music and Charlie Brown's depressed. And I remember just that melancholy just being so comforting. And actually that's something I wanted to bring into my work. So what I did was I made a playlist with a bunch of different songs that were kind of the soundtrack to my work. And a lot of them were that melancholy thing. And I thought, how do I translate that into visual art? And it was a long process, still is a process. I'm still learning how to do that. How do I do something that seems simple? Maybe in a lot of ways, that's why I think it appeals to kids, but there's a lot of deeper emotions and deeper things happening there, or hidden things, you know. And so I tried to research my past and then research, what are the things now? When I, you know, what's the last time I watched a movie or a TV show or something? And I was holding back tears, you know? That happens every once in a while. And I started thinking about what were those moments? What were the moments when I was just feeling so inspired and excited about making art or about life? What were those moments? And then pinpointing all these things. And then also understanding what was my development as a person? So I started thinking about all these things that made me unique or that were strong to me. And I started thinking about how do you put those into visual art? And the birth of that was the NOD project. That was an experiment in how do I take all these things that are who I am? And they influence my work. And if you want to look at the NOD project, go to my website and towards the bottom there's a big green, smooshy looking guy. And if you click that, that'll lead you to the NOD project. And so I did all that research and the NOD project was kind of the development of that. And I continued to do that over and over. And I think that's the main thing that I think this podcast episode is about is denying the myth that attaching commercial to the word art means that you have to make impersonal art just because you're getting paid or just because it's for an audience or for a company. I think it's actually the opposite, that the people that have a perspective and a voice, those are the people whose art really shines in the commercial marketplace. And some people are uncomfortable with selling that kind of stuff. And I'm not, I don't have any discomfort in that. It doesn't bother me. I actually love the idea that some of these characters I developed for these personal things and have these very personal meetings would go on and be and live in a magazine for an article that's maybe not completely related. But then that stuff is like, now that work, when I did a piece for Google's book, they do like a, must be quarterly. It's called Think Quarterly Book. And it had all my characters in it. And I felt like this article now, the work, the picture has all this depth there. And it's not explicit. That personal voice and perspective, it doesn't have, that perspective doesn't mean that your work has to be political. For me at least, that work meant that when you looked at that image, it didn't look like it was just an image about cell phones. It looked like there was all kinds of things going on. That same kind of Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz, feeling like I'm watching this story. And I'm hearing the words, but what's this stuff that's happening beneath the surface? Like what is this really about? And I felt like I started to kind of have those moments happen in my commercial work. And I think that's what makes it compelling. That's what makes someone else want to see something new from you and see what you would do with something else. And so I hope this helps. I hope this episode inspires you to dig deeper into what you're already doing. Even if you've already dug pretty deep, I think you can always go deeper into the old subconscious. Thanks for listening, guys. Keep sharing it, keep enjoying it. I'll speak to you soon. Hey, all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine. And I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately. And if you want to check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you want to test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself. And when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. I'm Wit Missaldine, the creator of This Is Actually Happening, a podcast from Wondery that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future family with one choice, to a woman that barely survived her roommate, we dive into what happened and hear their intimate first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Follow This Is Actually Happening on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wonder Yap.