Creative Pep Talk
009 - Never Stop Growing
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) Yo, it's the creative pep talk podcast, and this is your host Andy J. Miller, illustrator guy. I've got myself a nice coffee that I brewed this morning. And if you don't have one, you better get one, so you don't get jealous as I'm slurping and sipping. So the subscribers are growing, the feedback is pouring in. Loving this format, it's really good, and I really appreciate all the feedback and encouragement, keep 'em rolling. Really appreciate if you really like this podcast, really appreciate you going and doing a review on iTunes, 'cause I hear that that's how other people find it, so. Today, we're gonna talk about something that came up, I was listening to, you know, my favorite podcast, Your Dreams by Nightmares, where Sam Weber interviews illustrators, and he interviewed a really famous illustrator named Robert Hunt, and when asked what his biggest advice was for other illustrators, Robert said, to never stop growing, and I started thinking about this, and I thought, you know, maybe that really is the cornerstone of a long-lasting, successful career full of, just, I don't know, all kinds of different accomplishments and successes and fulfillment. I think that maybe the opposite stank stagging or refusing to grow is maybe the cornerstone of a failed career in so many ways, and so I wanted to just dive a little bit deeper into this topic because, I don't know, I wanted this to think about what keeps us from growing, and then how do we kind of make growth a part of our career in the long-term? How do we remember to do that? So I've been, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this. So, I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro, and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's fluid engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So, go check it out, squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself, and when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new journey of the true fan series exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection, with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or AndyJPizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. - So, okay. The problem is that I think that the day you stop growing in your field is the day that you sign the contract on the end of your career. I think that if you, you know, what possible things could you, possible reasons could you have to stop growing? I think there's a lot of reasons. But I think the number one reason is that growth is pain. I think, you know, you've heard the term growing pains. I think that this is, we, humans hate pain. We hate pain and we want to avoid it anyway possible. And if you've ever tried to really learn something new, you know how frustrating and hard that can be. You know what, you know, I think about Seth Godin, who's, I guess he's a marketing guy. He's, you know, he's kind of a brilliant dude. He wrote a book called "The Dip" and he talks about how anything worthwhile doing has this giant moat created around it to keep people out of doing it. And something that I've realized recently is if, if you want to grow into a new field, if you want to take your art into a new field, you really can't successfully do that by dabbling in it. You know, I think you can't just like think, oh, I'll pick up a little editorial, I'll pick up. I'll just, maybe I'll just check out kids books or whatever 'cause what happens is you start getting in there. It's like, you know, the world of indie comics. I feel like the thing about, if you get in there, what you start noticing is, you can't just start making comics that are gonna be well received because there is a whole dialogue. There's a whole history. There's a whole understanding, a deep understanding in that community about how things are supposed to be done. Now, you don't have to do them those ways and you probably shouldn't if you want to make something fresh, but you do have to spend the time and investment of understanding what those things are so that you can make a decision on whether you're gonna play safe or you're gonna get innovative. You can't just go into it and say, I'm gonna do something completely different because the thing is, is that there have been hundreds of people that have done completely different things. You know, the majority of things in a field that has a history, there's a tradition of innovation already there. So, in order for you to get into that, you really have to go into it and you have to, you have to grow, you have to learn. So, any area that you're gonna try to venture into, it's gonna take a long period of time to get through that dip, to get through that time of learning the process and if you're gonna be good at it, it's gonna take pain. And I think that maybe that's the reason we quit innovating. You know, earlier this year, I realized that I had stopped listening to music that was challenging me. And I think most people would, I think a lot of people don't listen to music that challenges them in the first place and maybe music's not their thing. But for me, music is such a big inspiration to me. It's so important to me. You know, when I realized this, I was really kind of upset with myself because I realized that I'd stop growing in my musical taste. You know, I think that that was one of the, I think that that's one of the things that I developed early on. You know, I think this willingness to grow has a real link to humility. And so, when I came into the art world, I had all the humility in the world. And the reason why was because I came from a family that didn't know anything about art. You know, I've said it plenty of times and, you know, my mom wasn't around and she was the artist of my family and all the rest of my family aren't artists at all. And they don't know much about art, they don't care much about art. And, you know, I grew up listening to Boys to Men in Tupac. And, you know, I didn't have that art in culture. And so, when I started to dive into those things, like music, you know, I didn't know anything about these things. I didn't have any reference point. And it was a very humbling position to be in. And I was making new friends that were into these things and they knew everything about this stuff. And I didn't know anything. And so, everything was challenging. But I was, it was thrilling at the same time. This is kind of embarrassing because this isn't a challenging of an album, but in 2004, I had a buddy called my friend, Will Johnston. He was playing the new Modest Mouse album in Spanish class. And I remember walking in and just being like just totally blown away by what I was hearing because it just didn't sound like anything I'd ever heard before. I had no reference point for it. And I really liked it, but at the same time, it was challenging me. And I went and bought the album right away, actually. And I listened to it over and over. And I guarantee, and I tell you what, the first several times I listened to it were kind of painful. Like, I didn't, it didn't, I had no reference. And it was just like, I couldn't, I couldn't wrap my mind around where all these sounds were coming from 'cause I'd never heard the Pixies. You know, I'd never heard this independent music. I didn't even really ever listen to the Beatles. I didn't have any reference for any of these sounds. And it was challenging me. And then a couple of weeks later, it just really clicked on a deep level. And actually, it was their merch and band posters and all that that truly got me into design and illustration. And it was going through that pain that actually led me to my career. And that was kind of the precedent that I set. And I honestly think that the day that you stop swimming is the day you're sinking. I really, really believe that because if you wanna look at the people at the height of their game, look at the people that are at the height of the height. And if those people refuse to grow in five years, they're gonna be the joke because their work is gonna be, it was so on trend that it's gonna be the most dated. But there are stories out there of even those people continuing to innovate and grow. One of my favorite stories, actually one of my all time favorite people is Jerry Seinfeld. I think if you go listen to him in his longer interviews and listen to how he approaches comedy, you realize that this guy is so serious about what he does. And he's so passionate about his craft as a stand up comedian and about the history and the market and the of comedy. And it's so respectable and so interesting. He's got so many awesome ideas and one of the most inspiring things I've ever seen, there's a movie called Comedian that he's the star of. It's a documentary and it shows what happened after his show, Seinfeld, ended. And I think when you look at that show, it's arguably the most successful sitcom of all time, I think you see one of the pictures of this never stop growing better than maybe any other example. So here's a guy who, I think stand up comedians can only dream of having a sitcom, let alone a successful one. He's at the top of the game and unprecedented success. And then when that shows over, he goes back to the stand up circuit because he loves it and he's passionate about it and he wants to prove that he doesn't want special treatment and he wants to do the thing he loves and he wants to get better at the thing he loves. So what he does is he does something that, I don't know if anybody's ever done, he goes back to the stand up industry and he scratches all the material that he's ever made. And through the movie, you even see people saying, you know, how can you do that? How can you go back to square one because square one is painful because when you start doing comedy, you don't know what the good jokes are because you only know by how the audience responds. And so you start with like five minutes of material and you go up and you bomb and you watch Jerry Seinfeld, this king of comedy, go up and try some new material. He goes down to zero material, none of the old stuff. He gets up there. He tries some new things and they totally bomb. Here is a millionaire in the eyes of the comedy world, maybe the most successful man alive. Going up there under the scrutiny of a small New York audience, laughing their pants off at how bad he's doing with this new material. And week after week, month after month, he developed 40 minutes of brand new comedy and he regains a whole new show and he tours that. And yeah, he hasn't repeated his success in the same way that his TV show has done but he has done some fantastic tours. He's done some really interesting endeavors. My favorite is his comedians and cards getting coffee where he goes and does his web series where he goes and has a conversation with one of his comedy buddies. That series in itself has been really successful, super interesting and totally an extension of Seinfeld but also a growth and also an adaptation. And I don't think he ever became irrelevant. And I think it's because it's his willingness to devote himself to learning the craft and developing and innovating and willingness to feel the pain, to feel the pain of growth. I think that that's such a so respectable and so interesting. You know, I always think of these people who these musicians, especially who get just extremely successful and just slowly become irrelevant over time. The holidays are upon us and finding the right gift for your kids, nieces and nephews and partner and family members can be super difficult but it doesn't have to be. Go check out Uncommon Goods. Sophie and I were checking it out the other day looking for gifts for our kids to have a make your own storybook kit, which we love. There's this cardboard tool kit with a cardboard saw that's safe and connectors so you can build cool stuff and forts and whatnot. They also got these building connectors where you can connect sticks and make a fort. 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And no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings, king supers, fresh for everyone, fuel restrictions apply. So yeah, I think about bands like Radiohead. I think they're the classic example of bands that never stop pushing themselves. And I think about, you know, what was it that made them go from something like OK Computer where they're getting all this praise and all this excitement around their album? What makes them keep pushing themselves and come out with something like Kid A where they've pushed the boundaries, they've kind of, you know, blown the roof off with how they push things. How do you become that kind of person? I think about as funny as it is, I think about Michael Jordan a lot. I think about how for so many people, the drive is competitiveness. I think if you're someone like Michael Jordan, when you get to this point and it's clear that you're better than everybody else in the world at this thing, how do you get better after that? So he continues to blow past the competition to where he becomes a dominant force, where every game he is dominating the other players because he never stopped growing even after that drive of competition. And I think about what is this? I think this show, maybe more than anything, is about putting an idea out there to maybe challenge your perspective or help you to reframe how you're thinking about your career and creativity. I think in the perspective challenge that I want to do today is challenge you to not think of your career ever as having arrived because I think that that is a lie. I think any time you think that you've arrived, not only are you wrong, but as soon as you start to think that way, you're signing your career's death certificate. I feel like maybe more than anything that's the most detrimental lie that you can believe. And I think the easiest way, I talk about this being a resource of creative wisdom. That wise, a lot of this is taken from other people and things I've read and it's, you know, I'm just funneling them back to you. But I think about changing your perspective from a limited one to a more wise one. And I think wisdom takes a larger account of life, not just the way that you think and feel in the moment. And I think if you look at creative careers on the whole, you can see that no matter how much success anyone has ever reached, if they refuse to keep challenging in themselves and growing, that the end of their career is soon to be had. You know, I don't think it matters how high you climb. Fashion and trends and stuff is gonna, stuff things are gonna change and you're gonna be left irrelevant at some day, at some point. And so, you know, I think the way that you continue to always grow is mainly just to keep this perspective fresh in your mind. Like, I'm never going to arrive. I'm never gonna find my style and it's gonna be it. I'm never gonna stop being hungry in my industry. I'm never gonna stop looking at what other people are doing. I'm never gonna stop playing. I'm never gonna stop experimenting in my own work. And one of the biggest ones, I'm never gonna stop learning new tools. You know, I think three or four years ago, I started to integrate, I saw some people were doing with the Wacom tablet and it blew my mind the possibilities and how much growth you can, how far you can push image making when you're not bound by paper. And when I started that process, it was ugly, it sucked, it was hard. And I think it always is that way. But I think the payoffs that I've had from sticking with it year after year and growing and growing and growing in my work, improving and getting new opportunities and doing different types of things and having new breakthroughs, it's caused me to realize that I want to be systematic about learning new tools. I wanna always be learning new tools, no matter how painful that is. I always wanna be learning new processes. I always wanna be, you know, one of the things I do is I do some work for clients that are more graphic design, that are open, that are, I can do anything. I always continue to do that stuff because I can try things that aren't comfortable or aren't right for my work now. But then as I slowly develop those skills, they end up transferring over and influencing what I'm doing in my own work. And I have breakthroughs for that. So I'm always trying to play and develop. You know, earlier this year, I realized, like I said, I think that I wasn't listening to music that was challenging to me. And that was such a, it smacked me in the face. And you know what? I systematically just devoted my year to, I'm gonna listen to music that, where the resources I trust say are good albums. And I'm gonna dive into the album and I'm gonna know it back to front before I decide whether I like it. And there've been a handful of albums this year that I would have never given a chance to had I not had that change of heart. And they've been my favorite albums this year. And I have a new vitalized interest in music. You know, I think as soon as you, it's just like when you retire, if you don't have a hunger for something else or a passion, you know, those are the people that, that's when you start to die. You know, I hate to be extreme, but when you lose that hunger and lust for life, that's when you start being old. That's when you don't listen to new music anymore. All of your passion for music is in the past. And I think the same goes for your career. And so I hope this has helped you. I hope it's given you a little pep to your step in your day. You know, I wanna create a resource here where there's hundreds of episodes and there's just a long thing you can dive into and just get fresh fire put in your heart for your craft and for your art and for your career. I super appreciate the feedback. Go on iTunes and review it. That's how other people find it. Thanks for all the encouragement. Thanks for all the personal notes that I've been getting about how this has helped. And let's keep doing this thing together. I'll speak to you soon, man. (upbeat music) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) - Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine and I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately and if you wanna check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you wanna test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself and when you're ready to launch use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. Do you love hair raising allegedly true stories about the paranormal? Then some in the podcast Scared to Death. It's the popular horror series with more than 60 million downloads and is co-hosted by me, Dan Cummins. And me, Lindsey, co-hosts and also Dan's wife. Each week on Scared to Death, we share bone chilling tales from old books and creepy corners of the web and some submitted by our listeners all designed to make you sleep with the lights on. Think you can handle the horror? Tune in to Scared to Death every Tuesday at the stroke of midnight to find out.