Creative Pep Talk
007 - The Most Important Question, What Do You Want
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. (upbeat music) (dramatic music) All right, it's the creative pep talk podcast, and this is the man who does the talking on the show. This is me, Andy J. Miller, illustrator, designer, kind of guy, and I'm the guy who speaks on this, and I'm about to get you peped up, get prepared to be insanely peped up for your creative day. I kind of described myself as the creative Mac Foley, if you know what that means. So, today on the podcast, we are going to talk about maybe the biggest problem that I think you need to solve when it comes to your creative career, and it's really knowing what it is you want. How small of a thing that seems to be when in reality, I really think that it's make or break. I mean, I think there's some little nuances here that I'll get into later that I think explain a little bit that can I further dive into maybe the small issues with this idea, but I really think that this is one of the keys to a successful career in the creative world. I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have, and I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro, and that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's Fluid Engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So go check it out, squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself. And when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True Fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. - You see, I did a poster a few years back that said, "Do what you love." And I think in the past year or two, there's been a real bit pushback onto that kind of sentimentality. And I think for good reason, I think that it's kind of like a little pithy little thing that you put out there. And there's always any extreme definitive statement like that. There's always a bunch of nuances that it's ignoring. But I think that there is still truth in do it, you love. But I think that maybe you need to take a step further. And I'll tell you what got me thinking about this. I was watching, so James Victoria does these amazing little YouTube videos called Burning Questions, where he answers questions that are sent to him. And he's like a designer. And they're really awesome. In one episode, he, in an off-handed comment, mentions this book called Thinking Grow Rich and he says that he kind of swears by it. And so I went to check it out. And it's actually this really crazy, ridiculous book from, I don't know, 50 years ago, maybe more. And it's kind of got the essence, got the vibe of like a get rich quick kind of thing, but it's more interesting than that. I personally have like this kind of fetish for things that are out landishly kind of ridiculous, like get rich quick schemes and crazy fluffy ideas. I don't know, in kind of like a detached kind of like, I'm just fascinated by people that go out and make these bold claims and stuff. I just, I don't know, it's just so interesting to me. So this book is kind of like, I read, I didn't read it all, but I read quite a bit at the beginning and I thought it was really interesting and profound. One part of it is that I think he's saying do what you love, but I think something that's he's tacked onto further is find what it is you really love. Like find, like that's the precursor to this. And I think that's one of the things that, where I've seen do what you love really fall on its faces when you're trying to help somebody who really doesn't know what they love, what do you do? But actually I feel like I've developed some ideas around this on how to actually analyze and research and then experiment and try to really boil down what it is you're looking for. And I think that that process is actually really good for really figuring out what it is you want to do. And here's why I think it's such a giant problem. Because I think when you don't really know what you want, there are slew of issues that come from that. These are the symptoms of not knowing what you want. So you either A, do nothing. You know, when I was in high school, before I really found art, I was just totally directionless and I was apathetic about life. And all I really cared about was partying, to be honest, 10 girls. And I don't think that's necessarily a unique story for high schoolers. But I didn't take school seriously at all. I didn't take my life seriously. I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do. And I was just completely apathetic about life. And I think when you really don't know what you want, it can often cause you to do nothing at all. And when you do nothing, nothing happens. You don't, I think it's so rare that the fairy godmother comes out of nowhere and comes and gives you everything you didn't know you already wanted for no reason. And sometimes, I think when you're reading these interviews with these famous artists or whoever, there are certain people out there that want to push this idea. You know, everybody pushes their own experience. There are a few exceptions to the rule with the fairy godmother. There are people out there who do sit around and have it handed to them on a silver platter. But there's this pastor from the south called Andy Stanley that my dad likes. And he, I heard him say something once interesting, really interesting that I keep going back to, which was planning on being the exception is like saying your financial future and financial plan is to win the lottery. Planning on winning the lottery is not a plan at all because you can't plan on being the exception. That's not, that's the opposite of a plan. And I think there's some of these artists that in the interviews they say, oh, you really don't need to be strategic. You don't really don't overthink it. Just let it happen. And I'll tell you what, I have a few people I know pretty well. They just let it happen. They work in jobs that they hate. They were just letting it happen. They're not fulfilling their potential. I don't, I think it's, you know, I think everybody wants to just tell their story. And I think a lot of times you use that to give advice. But I think it's a little bit sketchy for those people to go around, for the exceptions to go around and say, just be the exception. I think that that gets a little bit sketchy. So I think when you don't know what you want, you more often than not end up doing nothing. Now the second thing that I think that you do when you don't know what you want is you try to do everything. So you might not be doing nothing, but when you really don't have a good sense of what you want, you're gonna be trying to do everything. And I think when I first started out in my creative career as an illustrator, I was trying to do everything. I was trying to do gallery work. I was trying to do editorial stuff. I was trying to do books. I was trying to do advertising. I was trying to do animation. I was trying to do everything that I could possibly do. And I think that, and I was doing patterns. And I think for a time when you're starting out, that's not the worst thing. But somewhere along the line, you've gotta figure, you gotta boil it down a little bit. And I think even recently this was brought to my attention. So I was watching this video of one of my favorite artists and who I'm not going to name just because I think it's more effective if I don't. And I was watching him and I was thinking about his career. And his career looked so streamlined. So curated, just very intentional. Everything looks perfect. And it always kind of felt like that from the whole time. If you look back through his whole kind of public career as an artist, it just looks so intentional. Every step just mapped out so nicely. And watching that video, I started getting that feeling that I'm sure most of you get, which is that jealousy like, "Oh, I suck so bad." And I started to sort through that because I think jealousy is a complicated feeling. It's almost like a secondary feeling. And I think it's something that you have to work out. You have to work through it. Because sometimes you can take that jealousy and it can turn into something amazing. It can turn into something that motivates you, that helps you understand what it is you want. But sometimes, if you don't know what you want, that jealousy in those feelings actually put you onto a different path that you are never supposed to be on. So I went on a walk and I started to sort through what's really going on there. I started to think about what I know about this artist. And I realized that a majority of the artists that have that very nicely curated, intentional kind of art portfolio that's very personally driven, that's not real commercially minded, that doesn't seem to take any compromises. The majority of people, including this artist, that take that path, have to do a lot of part-time and full-time work, doing other things for a very long time, if not forever. I was recently listening to one of my favorite podcasts, which you know, Sam Webber's "Your Dreams by Nightmares." And he was interviewing some young new graduates in illustration and they were saying that they would rather compromise part of their week with a part-time job, and then spend the rest of their week doing full-time work, or doing not full-time work, doing the rest of their week, doing work that's no compromise at all, that's completely self-generated. And Sam was saying that most of the illustrators he knows would rather be compromising a little bit on all the things that they work on, and work on them all the time. And when I thought through all of those things, I realized that what I've always wanted, and I always knew that I wanted, was to be doing work that I loved, that was my thing every day. And if I had to compromise a little bit on all of it, I wouldn't really, I didn't mind at all, because I wanted to do commercial work, I wanted to do work that was paying my bills, that was also stuff that I loved every day. And when I'd graduated, I had some part-time jobs, and I really didn't enjoy splitting my time that way, and even if it warranted different things that I could do with the rest of my time, I didn't like compromising in that way. And so when I thought through all these things and feelings, and I thought back to this artist, I thought that was never the career that I wanted to have, and it was so easy when I kind of had a clear picture of what I wanted to set those feelings of jealousy down. And I can honestly say that since I worked through that, I haven't felt like that. And actually, at that point, those feelings actually became something positive, because I thought I know I never wanna do those things, but in what ways can I be a little bit more intentional? In what ways can I carry it a little bit better? In what ways can I compromise less? Do still getting the thing which I want, which is to do my work five days a week, and it became something positive. So not knowing what you want, it can A, make you try to do nothing, B, it can try to make you do everything. And then the last thing, the last one of the last biggest problems is that not knowing what you want can cause you to work towards the wrong goals. And when you accomplish those goals, you're miserable. It's almost, sometimes it's worse than if you didn't accomplish anything. And I'm gonna tell a little bit of the story. So I talked to you, I think it was last podcast about my high school experience, which if you really are interested in what I was up to in high school, what kind of shenanigans I was getting into, go check the last podcast, of which I doubt any of you are gonna turn this off and fire up that podcast with that prompt. But long story short, I think one of the things that as I was kind of going through that that I realized is that like the most clarifying thought was that in high school, I wanted to be, I was in a new school from middle school and I wanted to regain the popularity that I had in the small town that I went to middle school in. And I thought that that would make me really feel fulfilled. But the truth is the more popular that I became, the more miserable I was. And I think a big part of that is, is that I didn't realize what I wanted. And in that when I was in middle school, it wasn't the popularity that made me feel secure and fulfilled. It was that I had made really close friends who were genuinely close to me. And so what happened is after I'd kind of become somewhat popular in my high school, I ended up just making some friends from some other schools that I actually had a lot in common with and who actually wanted to be genuine friends. And it wasn't until then that I really had a piece in my life and that was towards the end of my high school career. Now another side to this, and this is the story I want to talk about today, kind of starts with something that is a story that partially I want to tell because I think it's a unique story. And then also because I think it kind of really lends to this idea of how important it is to know what you want. So when I was a kid, I mentioned I think in a past episode that my mom had left us. So when I was, I think one or two, my parents were divorced and it was just me and my older brother. And through a series of kind of issues and, you know, when you're growing up and then as you grow up and you kind of put the story together with bits and pieces of what you kind of find out over the years. And so I'm not going to divulge what I maybe think happened, but suffice it to say that my mom left us when I was really young. And actually I think that my mom has a series of possible, just severe kind of issues in her life that kind of have led her to lead a fairly sad life in a lot of ways. But so as I was a kid, you know, I think to win, I've got two children right now. And I've got a girl who is six and a little boy who's two. And a little boy as such, a mama's boy. And I think of how similar we are and how he's the second child. And I get a picture of what I sense I must have been like and how much I wanted that nurturing relationship with my mother. And I think that from an early age, that just caused me to be very confused emotionally about what I was looking for. I think that, and I think it manifested itself in so many ways. And before I get too self-analytical in my psychoanalysis of my own experience, which I think has got to be extremely messy and not that wise. I think that the thing that I could take from that is whatever happened there really confused me emotionally about what I was looking for in my relationships. And I think that especially manifested itself when it came to my relationships with girls and women. And so as I was a teenager, I had several girlfriends, which all kind of ended in very similar ways, like semi-serious relationships that if you can even call them that when you're a teenager. But just when I was going into them and what I was asking of these kind of girls was just either too much or I was just very unsure about what it is I wanted. And I think when you're not sure about what you want, you end up falling into things. Like I said, you either do nothing, everything, or you achieve things that you never wanted. And I think sometimes it's a mixture of all those things. And I think it's not uncommon actually for a lot of people, probably a lot of people can relate to this, is that when you really don't know what you're looking for in a partner, you can stumble into things that are nothing like what you ever wanted. And what happens is you try to force that person to be something that they could never be. And when you do that, when you're asking that of somebody, it causes them to act in ways that they would never act. And so I had several relationships just go super sour. And they were just a disaster in so many ways. And I left that experience when I was about 18, just really broken about what that would look like to have a good relationship and just kind of cynical and skeptical in some degrees. I feel like some of those feelings became a little bit more healthy, but I feel like that picture of kind of falling into things, that messy kind of getting kind of things that you want, but you're not really sure. And I think that that often is what it looks like when you don't know what you want in your creative career. And it goes sour. You know, either you work for something that you never wanted. And when you get it, you're not satisfied at all. It's nothing like what you thought it would be. But I think the true thing that you need to do before any of this is get really sober and you're thinking about what it is I want. And I think that there's some good ways of trying to make that happen. Like anything really worthwhile, it's a lot like falling in love. So it's not something you can just coerce and force and make happen. It's something that you have to be open to. You have to be thinking about. You have to be strategic. You have to be in the right place the right time. And you need to be working and be intentional about it. That's the best way to get it, but it's a little bit elusive, which is what all great things are. So you can get out if you want to try some of the things that I feel like I do to try to boil down what it is I want. You can get out like a pen or whatever and write down these are kind of the steps or the things that help me. Or just let it wash over you. And that's what I usually do is just kind of let it soak in and I'll take what I want and leave what I don't want. So here's kind of what I think you should do. This is kind of how I think it should work or how it often works for me. So the first thing I do is research. That's such a, well, first, first, first thing. And I'm taking kind of from the design processes, but it's definitely something I do, which is I define the problem. And we already know what the problem is 'cause I've said it 82 times in this podcast, which is knowing what you want, figuring out what it is to why, what do I want from my creative career? And that can be in regards to the types of jobs you wanna get, the type of what your, the trajectory over your whole career. It could be what you want your week to look like. It could be, yeah, what kind of medium you wanna work in. It could be anything. It's all about what do you want from your creative career? The second thing after defining the problem is research. And this is a really important part. And I think it, I think some of the ways this looks is, look at what other artists do, what other careers are out there that when you see them, they really speak to you. And then write a little bit about it like this person does gallery shows, his works like this. This is kind of what his week looks like 'cause they're all interconnected. This person does editorial work. This is what it would take to do that. I'm, whether I'm willing to do those sorts of things to get that. This person does children's books and it looks like this. And so think through all these things and then make a hierarchy 'cause you might want a lot of different things but make a hierarchy. Try to take in what that means for their actual life and how it would feel to actually do the work, not just the output, not just like, I'd like to achieve the same thing. But also that seems like the type of work that I would enjoy doing. So try to be, when you're doing this research, try to really think about a holistic approach to what it means that these artists have. And then I think you need to do further research because I think a lot of artists want to stop there. But the truth is your life has never been lived, your story has never been told and your thing will never look just like someone else. Those people can be signposts but you have to work under the assumption that the song that you're gonna sing is a song that's never been sung so it's not on the internet. That's one of the things I like to say is the answer is not on the internet. So those deep, elusive things, you're not gonna find them by surfing the web for five hours. Just that feeling's not gonna be fulfilled. You might dull it by doing that, but you gotta dig a little bit deeper than just looking at other people. So then you also need to think about what kinds of things have I done that were really fulfilling? What were the kinds of things that I really enjoy doing? What are the kind of entertainment and situations and conversations and all that? Take all that into account. What are the things that really move me and excite me and all that, just research all that like crazy? When you've got some ideas of like, maybe these are the five kind of things that I really want with my creative career, start talking to other people about it. And I kind of liken this to, I liken this to how when you think something, when you think you've got a good idea or something funny or like a, you know, yeah, just a funny idea or whatever, and you go to somebody and you get ready to tell someone about it, as soon as you start talking, you instantly know whether the idea was good or not. In your head, your ideas almost always sound amazing, but as soon as you start telling somebody, you get a really quick sense of, this is actually really stupid, or this is really good. And so I think the next step after research is to get feedback. And I think you should go talk to your peers that you respect, that do similar things to what you want to do. So if it's other visual artists, if you're a visual artist, or if you're a musician or other musicians that are in a similar place to you, talk with them about the things that you're thinking about. Pursuing are these things that you think you want. Talk to somebody who you would consider a mentor, or a few people that you would consider a mentor. Talk to people that really know you, that that's one of the most important parts. So people that are completely out of your industry, if it's a spouse, a boyfriend, girlfriend, or a brother or sister, our best friend, people that just really know you, that maybe don't know your career, and talk to them about, these are the things I would think I want. And usually those people can be a really good lens, like, well, that doesn't really sound like you, that, you know, that, no, I don't think so, you know. So don't take any of that feedback as gospel, but just take a pool of feedback and let it kind of simmer in you. And then the next thing I think you need to do is go back and start developing some specifics about what it would look like to get some of these, a few of these things. Start formulating a plan, like I would do this, this and this. And for me, that looks like formulating a project. That's what this stage looks like. So the development stage, you've got the define the problem, the research, the feedback and the development. When you start developing, to me, it usually looks like a project, because a project is a good way, a tangible way of trying to achieve something. And so I start developing at this stage five to 10 different projects that could possibly help me achieve these things that I want. And so when I've kind of really started to develop these things, I take it back to the feedback stage. And I say, you know, I take it back to these people I talk to and I said, I know I talked to you guys about these things that I was wanting to do. Here's the projects that I've come up with. What do you think? Get some feedback. I think it's especially good to come to people that are kind of in your field when it comes to this, because I think they can give you a little bit better feedback. Okay, you got that feedback. Next stage, testing. So go test some of these projects. Don't start any of them, for real. Like don't publicly say, here's the 10 projects I'm starting. No, just test them, do some of it. Practice what it would feel like doing the project. The thing that's funny about this is that this stage is kind of the make or break because some of those ideas that you were extremely passionate about and thought they were the one from day one, usually your first idea. You're gonna go start doing them and they're gonna feel right. And some of those ideas that you had, sometimes they're the ones that you didn't think were good at all or the ones you came up with on the spot or last minute, you start doing those and those feel amazing. And you get some, and then again, I've got three parts of feedback in this. So the next stage is feedback. After you do your test, get people to look at them, tell people how you're feeling, work through those problems with other people. And the last, well, it's not the last, second to last thing is start one or two projects that combine a few of the things that you want. The one, the project that does that the best and that you like the most and it feels the most right. And then commit to the project and give it a timeline. Now, if you're really confused about what you want, don't make this timeline too long. Really long projects have some really good payoffs, but if you're not sure, really sure that you wanna go this direction, commit to like a month or two months of something or 10 pieces of work, something that's substantial as a series or as a project, but something that you're not gonna commit a year to or your whole life to. So commit to that project. And the reason why I think it's so important to commit is that anything worthwhile that you want is going to be something that's not easy to achieve. And I think this is maybe the biggest reason why you really need to know what you want is that anything worthwhile, you're going to have to run at it with everything you've got. And I can guarantee if it's worthwhile, there are thousands of other people running at it with everything that they've got. There's thousands of other people that have done the process and they know they want this thing and they're giving it everything they've got. And that's why you can't afford to not know what you want. And only half do things. And that's why I think it's so important that you take this seriously and commit to something because if you don't, you're not always gonna feel like doing the project. You're not always gonna feel like you want this thing. But if you've done the process, hopefully you're confident enough to commit to one thing and see it through even the days that you don't wanna do it. And when you finish it, you've got one more stage. And that's analysis and you can bring other people in and it can be another part of feedback. But analyze, this is what I loved about the project. This is what didn't work. And these are the things I achieved and what I wanted. And this is how it felt to achieve those things. And when you do that whole process, I really believe that you're gonna get, I can almost guarantee that you're gonna be closer to understanding what it is you want. And I think just like doing what you love and just like all things in a creative career, you're never gonna be fully satisfied, but that's also the point. So you're never gonna know exactly what it is you want because you're never going to want just one thing. You have a myriad of desires and they're also gonna change as you grow. And so, you know, it's never finished, but that's actually the good news. 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To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk. That's uncommongoods.com/peptalk for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer, uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. - When you need meal time inspiration, it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouthwatering meals. And no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices, plus extra ways to save, like digital coupons worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings, king supers, fresh for everyone, fuel restrictions apply. I want to finish telling the story about my love life. Here's what ended up happening. So, when I graduated high school and I've kind of had these terrible relationships in so many ways, I started to think about why it was that these things were going wrong. And I think I concluded that it was a few different things, but they were all wrapped up in what I wanted. Some of the things that I wanted, I was looking for fulfillment of things I wanted from a girl that I needed to get other places. So that was one of the things. Some of them were spiritual things that I wanted and that I could never have asked that from a woman. Some of them were things that I wanted from like a friend companion, you know, close friends. Some of them were things that I wanted from a girl that none of these girls had that I didn't know that I was looking for. And so, here's what I did. I did a really similar, I don't want this to sound clinical because I don't think relationships should be that or contrived, but I do think it really worked. And so, I was systematic about thinking up through what am I actually looking for in a woman as I grow up. And it might seem a little extreme, but I had a, I formulated an idea and I made kind of a list of, these are the kinds of things that I'm looking for in a partner. And I had a kind of a list of five, it might have been a little bit more of things like, these five things are the core things and they are non-negotiable. So I went to college and you know what I realized, I dated enough, I didn't want to date anymore. Because what I was looking for with my relationship with a woman was that list contained like commitment. And so when I was looking, you know, meeting people, I was looking for someone that I wanted to marry, that I wanted, because one of the things on that list is I wanted like family. That's what I wanted from this relationship, was family. And so I wanted to find someone I wanted to marry and the truth is I really did quit dating. And the college in England, for Bachelor's is a three year program for the first two years, I had no relationships. I did make some very close friendships with a few guys that really fulfilled some of those things that I was looking for in the friendship department. And I think that actually helped me round out and not put so much pressure on what my relationship with a woman would be. But I did do that. But for two years I had no zero relationships with girls or women at that stage. And the reason was because I didn't mean anybody that had fulfilled those things. Now, the funny thing is that where I met my wife is that in the place that I lived, it was near the recession and there were no jobs. No jobs, but I needed a job. And so my older brother helped me get a job where he was working, which was Subway. And so I worked at Subway while I was at college, making sandwiches. Now, in my second year of college, there was a sub-making competition where all the stores in the area got together. And it was in that time that I saw a girl that I thought looked really interesting. And I hoped that I kind of would bump into her and be able to talk to her. And it didn't happen. Another time in that kind of year, my second year, months later, I had to cover a shift at the store that she worked. And I ran into her and I didn't really get to talk to her. But I kind of noticed her and wished that I could kind of get to know her better. And then probably about a year later, in the third year of living there, this girl had to do some shifts at my store. And I was really excited, even though I'd met a handful of people that I got. I thought, maybe I could kind of have a relationship with this person and they just weren't anything like what I was looking for. And while we're making sandwiches, which is the best way to get to know somebody, I started to get to know this girl. And even though those top five things manifested, and one or two of them slightly differently than I expected them to, she really was exactly what I was looking for. And I get a little bit emotional when I think about this process because we started to talk a lot and we started hanging out. And it was one of the best and most intense periods of my life because I knew this is what I wanted and I had found it. And on my first date with her, it was actually a real day we went to a pub called The Grove. And that pub serves all kinds of beers. It's just like a weird specialty pub. And I remember holding hands with her for the first time. And it was like the most intense experience of my life as ridiculous as that sounds. But it was just so fulfilling to find this thing that I was looking for that I knew that I wanted. And I kid you not on my first date. On my first date, there were kind of two rooms and two different bars. And I walked into the other room of the pub and I had a friend that worked there. And I said to him, I'm going to marry this girl. And it was as cheesy and ridiculous as it sounds. And a year later, we were married. And I can tell you that our relationship is fantastic. And I love my wife severely. I always get emotional when I tell a story. But it's not the early days, butterfly stuff anymore. But it's a deep relationship. And it is all the things that I was desperately searching for. And I feel like it's a pretty healthy relationship. And I think that comes from clarifying what I was trying to get out of this thing. And I really believe that as personal as that may be, I think it's a good picture of this. Because I think the last thing that I think happens is that when you don't know what you want, I think the three things I mentioned before, which is when you don't know what you want, you do nothing or you do everything or you get the wrong thing. Sometimes the last problem with not knowing what you want is that even if you had what you wanted, if you really didn't know if you wanted it, you still wouldn't be fulfilled. And that's the saddest part. That's the worst part. Is that if I hadn't known exactly what I wanted, maybe I would never have recognized how amazing it was to have found all the things that I wanted in a person. Maybe that wouldn't have been such an amazing experience. But because I really knew it, and I think this is true in your career, if you really know, I want to make a kid's book. I want to publish a kid's book with a major publisher. And maybe you never know that and you kind of stumble into it. And maybe it just never fulfills you. You never actually get the saddest faction, because you didn't really know if you wanted it in the first place. And I think that's maybe the most tragic side of not knowing what you want. And so I think I feel the need to lighten things up a bit since I got a little bit intense here on the show. But I really do want to be honest and open on the show and I want to be able to share my life with you and in hopes that it might have an impact on what you do. And so I hope that you could get something from this. And I hope that you find what you want. I hope you -- and not just actually finding what it is you want, but actually finding what you want in the first place. So yeah, I hope this has been a help to you. I hope that you -- I hope that you can -- if you're -- you are confused in this area, which is one of the worst feelings. And the other thing I was going to say is, as you start -- you know, I really do kind of believe that there are things, there are forces out there that want to stop you from doing this process. I want to stop you from really thinking through and being mindful about what it is you want, because I think that's the real first stage to finding it. And if you don't want to get weird and get spiritual on it, you can even look at it as some of these forces are just competition. Like your competition don't always want you to know how they get what they do, how do they get what they got. And so even if it's as simple and practical as that, I think there are forces out there that want to stop you from finding what it is you want. And I think it's a pursuit that's worth going through. And I think when you start doing it, it should feel painful. Like that should be, that should be the feeling that tells you you're doing something meaningful. So I hope that helps. And keep coming back to the Creative PEP Talk podcast where I want to give you a pep talk to help inspire you to keep going, and also to hopefully enable breakthroughs in your creative career. Thanks, and I'll see you soon. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine, and I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately, and if you want to check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you want to test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself, and when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. Do you love hair-raising allegedly true stories about the paranormal? Then some in the podcast scared to death. It's the popular horror series with more than 60 million downloads and is co-hosted by me, Dan Cummins. And me, Lindsey, co-hosts, and also Dan's wife. Each week on Scared to Death, we share bone-chilling tales from old books and creepy corners of the web, and some submitted by our listeners, all designed to make you sleep with the lights on. Think you can handle the horror? Tune in to Scared to Death every Tuesday at the stroke of midnight to find out.