Creative Pep Talk
004 - Over Thinking
(upbeat music) Hey y'all, just a quick heads up. The episode you're about to listen to is eight to 10 years old. Now, these episodes were intended to be evergreen, and I still believe there's a lot of good information in these early episodes, but I do wanna let you know that some of my ideas have evolved over time. Times have changed since we made these episodes, and ultimately, I'd like to think I've grown a lot as an artist and a human, and that these don't necessarily represent my best work, or the best of the podcast. If you're new around here, I suggest starting with the most recent episode, or at least go back to around 300, and move forward from there. Enjoy the episode. The holidays are upon us, and finding the right gift for your kids, nieces, and nephews, and partner, and family members can be super difficult, but it doesn't have to be. Go check out Uncommon Goods. Sophie and I were checking it out the other day, looking for gifts for our kids. They have a make your own storybook kit, which we love. There's this cardboard tool kit, with a cardboard saw that's safe and connectors. You can build cool stuff and forts and whatnot. They also got these building connectors where you can connect sticks and make them for it. Mainly, I just like forts, but there's tons of cool, creative gifts that will inspire your kids to go make stuff, but we could also easily have just bought stuff for each other, or even ourselves. This curated selection of goods means you don't have to scour the internet for something unique and exciting, and you're supporting artists and small businesses at the same time, which you know I love. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/peptalk. That's uncommongoods.com/peptalk for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer, uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. - Hello everybody. It's the Creative Peptalk Podcast. This is your host, I guess, Andy J. Miller. I'm an illustrator and designer, and I make work that, it's kind of like graphic illustration. I've done work with Nickelodeon and Google and Sony and people like that. That's kind of what I do. I make books, I do advertising illustration and editorial work, and that's kind of my thing. And I wanted to create this podcast to help other people kind of find their creative thing in the creative professional world. It's a tough game and it's a long game and there's a lot of confusion and it's easy to feel like you're alone. And I think that these podcasts are just like conversation starters. So, you know, I'd love, if you get on Twitter, you can find me on there. And I'd love to hear more about what your ideas are on this topic. You know, I feel like I love to have conversations about these sorts of things. I love to talk about creative professional pursuits. And yeah, I'd love to hear more about what you think about these ideas and yeah, just what your perspective is. You know, I think today, what I wanna talk about is overthinking. And I had this moment yesterday where I was kind of struck by, I saw someone who I consider to be pretty wildly successful saying that they overthink things. And it just like sparked something in me because I just felt like I've seen so many people that are wildly successful that use this term in like a self-deprecating way. Like I just overthink things. And I just got, I got to thinking about it. I thought, man, I think maybe we need to reframe the way we think about overthinking things. You know, I feel like, you know, I feel like that. So many people do this. And, you know, you'll hear someone they'll ask, they'll be asked about a project or something that they did. And they'll go into crazy detail, you know, and they'll go down deep into these layers and all the ways that they thought through it and all the strategy and analysis. And then they'll top it off with, you know, it's lighthearted and it's not a big deal, but the self-deprecating statement of, you know, I overthink things or whatever. But the truth is I think that it's that quality that makes these people wildly successful. I think it is this overthinking. And I want to just think about what is really going on there? What is this really about? Is this something that may, and maybe just for those of you who do consider themselves overthinkers, maybe there's ways of reframing that so that you don't dismiss maybe one of your most positive attributes when it comes to your career. So I got to thinking about it. And here's kind of one way I felt like I could look at it. All of my analogies are always ridiculous, but I feel like they do serve a purpose. So I just, I keep rolling with it. Now, if you know me, you know that I grew up listening to 90s, R&B, Boys Demand, and all of that. It's a long story. Why that is that way. I'm not really super into R&B anymore. But that's just my story. And so when I got to thinking about this topic, I started thinking about, I like to think about people in other creative pursuits because it kind of usually can help you get fresh eyes on looking at your own industry and your own own pursuit. And so I started thinking about Thong Song. All right. I started thinking about Cisco. I started thinking about how comparing Cisco to another artist in the R&B field that is comparable and that they're in the same genre. Their music was different in a lot of ways, but it was 90s R&B. So I started thinking about Usher. I started thinking about Cisco. And I started thinking Cisco had that giant and arguably terrible song, Thong Song. And it just exploded. I think it was like late 90s. Exploded, it sold millions of copies. And he was just at the height of his popularity. And I bet that there's part of that that felt amazing. And I bet that there were even other artists in his genre that looked at his success and were really jealous of that moment that he'd captured. And I think in the moment, it was easy for maybe people in that to think that this was the start of some giant pop career, you know? And I think it's easy to get caught up in that moment. Then look at Usher, okay? He had an album around the same time. He was kind of gaining popularity at the same time. He had different successes. He was nominated for Grammys in R&B and had hits in the R&B sector. And he's someone who I feel like I've kind of noticed has been very intentional about his career. And whether you like his music or not doesn't really matter. But I feel like if you, you know, if the past two, in the past three years, he's continued to win Grammys when more than he has his whole career and have bigger hits than he's had in his whole career. Now that's 15 years on, 15 years later, nobody knows who Sisko is. And Usher is coming out with his probably biggest singles he's ever had. And he's reinvented himself several times. Now I think I'm so interested in these people that are able to reinvent themselves. Not because I think there should be a thread that runs through it that's kind of authentic, that's honest. And I think that as long as you have that thing going, I think that overthinking quality is what enables you to look at the market, look at what's happening, and then make decisions on it. Don't copy it, but make decisions on it. Maybe you can react against it. And I think when you do that, you're gonna get to somewhere that's interesting more often and more consistently be successful and grow over time. I think about, I often put myself in the shoes of these one hit wonders. And I just think, gosh, what a, that would be the worst thing, the worst feeling in the world for me personally, would to feel like I struck gold on this one thing and I never could replicate it. And I think about this a lot, how what does it mean to craft a successful, a successful, sustainable career over many years? And not just that, but how do you continually ramp up your victories, like what you're achieving? How do you continually improve what you're doing and continue to get better at what you do? You know, I think that that's something that definitely concerns me as a creative professional. And I think that those are good examples. Even though they're ridiculous at the same time, I think the ridiculous ones are just more fun. And kind of paint a picture that's a little bit more obvious because they're so detached from our kind of perspective and environment. - I'm a believer in the idea of dressing for the job you want, not the job you have. And I have applied this to my creative practice too, which means if you want professional results, you need to present online like a pro. And that means going beyond social media and having a professional website that reflects your style and looks legit. I rebuilt my site this year with Squarespace's fluid engine and was so happy with how easily I could build my vision without coding that when they approached me to support the show, I jumped at the chance because I love and use this product. So go check it out squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out for yourself. And when you're ready to launch your site, use promo code PEPTALK, all one word, all caps for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks goes out to Squarespace for supporting the show and supporting creators all over the world. Hey, in case you don't know, we have a monthly live virtual meetup every last Monday of the month with supporters of the show from Patreon and Substack. We have so much fun on these calls and they are the warmest, most encouraging creatives that I have ever met. And we also talk real creative practice stuff. We have authors, illustrators, lettering artists, picture bookmakers, fine artists, musicians, and folks that work in video and film as well. And we have people that are just starting out, people super established in their creative careers and everything in between. For the rest of this year, we're gonna chat through our new Journey of the True fan series, exploring questions and ways to apply these ideas to your own creative practice so that you can leave 2024 stronger than you came in with more visibility, connection with your audience and sales. Sign up to whichever suits you best at either patreon.com/creativepeptalk or antijpizza.substack.com. And I hope to see you at this month's meetup. (upbeat music) - So that leaves me with, all right. I've kind of painted that picture. Now I wanna talk about what's really happening with this so-called overthinking because I think sometimes language is one of the biggest barriers for understanding, you know? Because I think, you know, you can talk about some antics, you can talk about how words don't matter or, you know, you're just using different words. But I think the truth is the way that we understand things is with words, that's how we understand. So when you get the right words, your understanding changes. And so I feel like this overthinking, a better way to describe it, it's usually strategic thinking, analytical thinking, mindfulness and thoughtfulness. Now I think another example of this is Radiohead. I'm not actually a giant Radiohead fan, but I love watching their career as they grow over time, they reinvent themselves. They're very mindful in the way that they go about making music and the way they go about selling music and the way that they present themselves. And I think that they're a great example of how overthinking actually pays off. You know, I'm also reminded of this example of Christopher Nolan, who I'm a pretty big fan of actually. Inceptions, one of my favorite movies actually, I'm a big fan of like dreams. I myself have these crazy, ridiculous dreams almost every night. And Christopher Nolan, if you read the story of writing Inception, which was the second highest-grossing film, sci-fi film of all time that wasn't a sequel or a remake. And it was also just an amazing movie. If you read that, you read that he originally was gonna make it as a horror film and then he decided to make it a heist film, but then he felt like it wasn't, didn't have enough emotional depth. So he added the kind of romantic psychological aspects of it and it took him 10 years to write that movie. Now, how many times do you think, as he's going about in that process, did somebody say, "You're overthinking it, man." Like, shoot from the hip, just get it out there. Like, just do it. You know, and I think there are times, there are times when you need to think like that. I totally think that's true. But when it comes to the overall trajectory of your career, I think you do need to, so to speak, overthink things. You do need to be strategic. You do need to be analytical. I think that, so yeah, that's kind of the reframing that I think we should be trying to do. I think that, you know, I think this goes back to the episode about pain where when you're having that gut churning feeling, those, that pain and that cycling of emotion, you should not see that as a sign that you're doing the wrong thing. When you feel like, maybe I'm overthinking this thing, you shouldn't see that as a sign as you're doing the wrong thing. I feel like that's just part of the process. Part of that pain and that overthinking and that confusion and that reworking, retooling is part of the process. And I'm sure down the road, I'm gonna do an episode about the value of spontaneity, the value of shooting from the hip and the value of just doing something. That's all true, but, you know, I'm a firm believer that the key to wisdom is nuance. So wisdom is about knowing what to do at the right time in the right place and being able to discern these things beyond like extreme extremism and rules. You know, extremism and rules are like the opposite of wisdom. Wisdom is about understanding what's happening in the moment and being able to make the best decision based on all of the nuances, all the gray areas. And so there is a time for those things, but I think for the bigger picture, the bigger trajectories, yeah, really thinking through, really being analytical and strategic and about how you approach your careers, actually. That's, I feel like that's what separates good and great. I think these people that go on to big greatness are actually the people that really dig deep and think through what they're doing. And, you know, another side to this is, I think a lot of people say that I'm overthinking things or I try too hard or whatever. I feel like some of that's rooted in this idea that trying hard isn't cool. You know, I think if you actually studied what cool is in our culture and in previous culture, what that's all about, a big part of it is not caring. But man, I'll tell you what, I have such a hard time connecting with people on a real human meaningful level with a human that doesn't care or acts like they don't care about anything, they're not passionate. That's the thing that makes me connect with someone the most. They really care about something. And I think it used to be called nerd, like you're a nerd 'cause you care too much about this one thing. But I think that that is the defining characteristic of someone who goes from good to great. I think you get a lot of these young gun people and some of them are amazing talents and totally deserve it and go on to be even better. But I think sometimes you get this raw amazing talent, they shoot from the hip and just what they do is perfect in the moment and it's, and because they haven't had to work like crazy, it just comes across so cool. But the truth is, I feel like unless you dive deep into this thing and you reach in deep and you really try to develop and be strategic and think through all of these things, you're gonna fizzle out, you're gonna be a one hit wonder. And I don't think anybody really wants that. And so, yeah, that's kind of the full story on this. And I really believe these things. Just to kind of end, I feel like I'm getting a lot of good responses about the podcast. I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm gonna try to get them out there a few times a week. Kind of as many up to one a day through the weekdays as I can, just so I can just be a nice, like thing to put on the morning, kind of get revved up in your creative endeavors. You know, I feel like this can be a tough thing to do alone. It can be a tough thing to emotionally even sometimes for a lot of artists. And so, that's kind of why I'm doing this. And I'd love to hear from you. Love to talk more about all these things and come back for more. I'll keep a touch. I hope you enjoyed it. Hope you got a nice creative pep talk for the morning. Thanks guys. (upbeat music) (birds chirping) (upbeat music) - Hey y'all, one more quick thing. Earlier this year, I rebuilt my website using Squarespace's new fluid engine. And I was so pumped about how it turned out that I have been really thrilled to find as many ways to partner with them and tell you about what they can do and bring you discounts as possible. With social media going haywire, I think having a site that feels as unique as your creative work is essential to building trust with your target audience or your clients. I have had several clients point out how cohesive and fresh my site looks lately. And if you wanna check that out and what I was able to do without any code, check out AndyJPizza.com. If you wanna test it out, go to squarespace.com/peptalk to test it out yourself. And when you're ready to launch, use promo code PEPTALK for 10% off your first purchase. Thanks Squarespace for supporting the show and for supporting creative people. - I'm Whit Msildine. The creator of this is actually happening. A podcast from Wondery that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lift them. From a young man that dooms his entire future family with one choice, to a woman that barely survived her roommate, we dive into what happened and hear their intimate first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Followed this is actually happening on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.