Geekscape

The Geekscape 'Captain America: Civil War' Special!

Here it is! Marvel's biggest movie of the year! 'Captain America: Civil War'! But will it end up being THE biggest movie of the year? Regardless, it's reason enough for a Geekscape Special... and that means Ian Kerner guests on the show to get into the nitty gritty of it all! What worked? What didn't? Where does this land on the in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and what does it mean going forward? Really, this movie is huge so strap yourselves in for quite the discussion... and a ton of spoilers obviously! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Duration:: 1h 2m
Broadcast on:: 08 May 2016
Audio Format:: other

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey Geekscapists, we've got a GeekScape special for Captain America Civil War and you know how these things go. We did one for Batman vs Superman, we did one for Daredevil Season 2, and we've got one here for Captain America Civil War with Ian Turner. If you're finding this on, maybe you're finding this on iTunes or you're finding this on SoundCloud and this is your first GeekScape, this is a special. So if you want non-spoilers, listen to the weekly show. But in these specials, we get into the spoilers and there are a ton of them here for Captain America Civil War. So you've been warned. I don't invite Ian on the show if we're not going to get into the nitty gritty of what this movie is, we went and saw it together. I'm pretty sure we know what each other think of the movie and yeah, I'm just going to start it off. So they made a movie, Captain America Civil War, it has almost all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe characters in it, barring TV and Netflix, and that's it. I don't know how to introduce a movie of this size and scope. Obviously, we were looking forward to it. I'll actually rephrase that. A party was actually ambivalent to the movie. Yeah, because Batman v Superman, I was really excited. I was like, dude, finally, they do this. And obviously, I had this trepidation. You had this completely flipped around. Yeah, well, I had those trepidation where I was like, okay, some of the things I'm seeing from the marketing campaign and the trailers are going to give me pause. But with Captain America Civil War, I'm one of those people who did really, I did enjoy Winter Soldier, but I have started to feel a little bit of the fatigue. Well, you've been really ambivalent about the Marvel movies in general. I mean, you... Yeah, Ant-Man was the highlight. As an idea, you say you like them, but you usually end up being really critical of them. Yeah, and to like Guardians, I thought was the highlight. I thought Ant-Man was the highlight. When it comes to the Avengers movies, I always feel like they're borrowing from the same well that Iron Man established, which it was fresh then, and it started to feel less fresh as you keep over dipping the Oreo cookie. And this one, I was like, okay, Winter Soldier was really impressive. I had my criticisms. I'm definitely going to have to see this because it's got every character I love in it. We'll see what they do. And I found myself, as I was watching the movie, every five minutes turning to my wife and saying, this is really, really good. And this is still really... And this movie is awesome. And then when the credits were old, I firmly believe this may be the... I firmly believe this is the best Marvel movie yet. I liked it better than the Avengers movies. I liked it better than my two previous favorites, which are Guardians of Ant-Man. This movie did so many various things. It does a lot of things, and it does them all very, very well. You know, I love the Marvel movies. I mean, I have... The movies are the biggest issues with where Iron Man 2 and 3, we've discussed them before. I love Thor, too. I wish my other kids hadn't gone out like a biotch. Yeah, but it's still... The movie's great, it's fun. It's much better than the first one. You think it's better than the first one? I do. I didn't know that it pinging. Yeah, I do. The first four is good, but it just drags a bit when he doesn't have his abilities. It's still a fun, it's a cute movie, but it just drags a little. To me, it's still a B-plus. Most of the Marvel movies, they have their flaws, but they're just a lot of fun, and they have a lot of heart for the most part. I think you'd have agreed on that, for sure. Yeah, yeah. It occurs to me listening to what you were saying, and up until now, I thought the one that sold was such a great all-around movie. And we get to this movie, and you've got to go to the Rooster Brothers, a lot of credit. They really know what they're doing. It's that right blend of action, general drama, comedy. They hit all of the beats. And I think that across the board, the problem with the Marvel movies always boils down to the villain. There's always a problem. In Iron Man right away, it's... Iron Manga? Who cares, and it's okay, he's fighting on a person. But you get it, you've seen this in other movies before, but fine, you get it. Then, you know, Incredible Hulk is the abomination. Again, it's just the dark side of the same character. Iron Man 2 is doing the same thing, but they up the stakes by making more of them. And, you know, I mean, Mickey Rourke, it's just chewing scenery. We've gone on in the past about, you know, "What's wrong with that movie?" I watched the opening the other day, and I kind of enjoy aspects of it. And Sam Rockwell's character. I enjoy it. There's great moments in that movie, which probably pisses me off the most about that movie, because there's a lot that's good. It's a lot that's great, and then there's things that are just ruined. Overall, I don't hate that movie. I mean, I enjoyed it, but I had a lot of problems with it. Iron Man 3 is pretty much a waste of time, though. What's interesting about this movie is, and, you know, I had issues with Age of Ultron. You know, at this point, because I actually loved The Avengers. I know you had issues with that. But this movie, in one fell swoop with a little bit of exposition, actually "Redeems" is probably too strong a word, but it firmly fit both Iron Man 3 and Avengers 2 into the canon of the evolution of these movies in such a way. And the evolution of Tony, and it was like, okay, his relationship with Pepper, then that's what I'm saying about this. There's so much going on that the Russo brothers have to balance. Every character has a full arc in this movie. And that was so impressive to me, because the biggest thing going in, you can always be cynical and be like, "Well, there's too many characters." They're not going to be able to balance them all or justify them all, and they did. And they did it really, really well. And they did it in a way that I thought, for me, Hurt Avengers 1, in that there was a lot of talking on the Helicarrier, and it wasn't always towards goal. I was like, okay, like, the propulsion of this movie, of its narrative, is hurting because they're talking, but it's not always, again, like, towards the goal. In this movie, you were talking about that Registration Act, these Accords, and whether or not you're going to sign. And obviously, you have Cap and Tony, and they did a great job of not making either of them unreasonable, and they're all pretty justifiable opinions. And then there's like Sam in the vision, and they start to see these shades in between them. And you start to see these characters as a shade really neatly, and it was done in a really economic way. They only set a few lines each, but they were so clearly defined that putting them against each other, as this movie builds towards, you couldn't wait to see it. And it also never felt long, even though the running time is just shy of Ultron, I think. The movie never felt long. No, exactly. There's not a moment of audience fatigue watching this movie. You don't want it to end. The action scenes were, I thought, way better than Winter Soldier. In the Winter Soldier, action scenes were awesome. I have a lot to say about that, but I like to take a more macro view first. When this movie was announced, and I'm sure a lot of viewers will know this, but this is based on a comic story, and my initial reaction to that was, "Oh, doing Civil War, is it earned yet? Have the Marvel movies been coming out long enough? Have we seen enough of this to be doing Civil War already?" And the answer to that, what they did in this movie that I think is really great is, Civil War in the comics is about the Superhuman Registration Act, which is how you refer to it. But the reality of this movie is, okay, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, you don't really have a lot of masked vigilantes running around. They throw the word out there, and it's great doing lip service to the word. And you also really get one? We did, we did. When we talk about the TV stuff, you have one in Daredevil, though the reality is, and the Russo brothers said this, they started making this movie. Daredevil season one hadn't even come out yet. So, I mean, the reality of that, it's not really necessarily there yet. They're hard to sync up to get those characters integrated, yeah. But, you know, when I heard about this movie, you know, in much the same way, the Winter Soldier informed a lot in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and was really excited going to this, oh, I just figured out, this is going to be so much about the Registration Act, it'll be in place, we'll play it out in S.H.I.E.L.D. Obviously we haven't seen the S.H.I.E.L.D. episode yet. It hasn't come, you know, it hasn't aired yet. But I'm actually not expecting that much of it, because what they did that was clever is it isn't really and truly the Registration Act, the Superhuman Registration Act that you got in the comic books. You know, it's really truly about the Avengers, and the Avengers just signing on to these accords that can be controlled. It's just about them. It's not really about anything else. But it's also about the Fallout from Winter Soldier. No, it's totally about it. It's not the fall from all of the movies. But you know how people are like, "Well, this is more of an Avengers movie." No, I think this is very firmly a Captain America movie. Yeah, but no, it's a really great way. It's the fall out from the first Avengers. From the second Avengers, from Winter Soldier, and this movie. I mean, and when you look at these things, you get that this is the kind of thing that would absolutely happen. Interestingly, and as much as I don't like this aspect, again, in reference to Iron Man 3, playing upon the soul-searching thing that Tony's going through was very much what that movie was about, as much as I thought it was a waste of time. I did. Prior to this movie, I felt Iron Man 3 was a waste of time. Now, in the context of this movie and talking about Pepper and all that, and in just a couple of lines of exposition, they've now justified the existence of that movie. It fully informs him, and the stuff he's been going through, and how that affects the character moving forward, and his relationship with Pepper and all that. In Avengers 2, when you watch that movie, it was like Iron Man 3 didn't even happen. There's zero reference to what Pepper's doing, what they've gone through, even the fact they destroyed all the armors, all of that stuff. It's just not even acknowledged. It's just like, "Oh yeah, my girlfriend's hot in the earth, though." That's it. There were parts in the Two Avengers movies where I thought that they chose Glib over character, and I was like, "Come on, let's not make those choices." This movie brings the character aspect into it, and you know, interested in the critics of the Iron Man 3, because it's only about character, you know? Right. To the exclusion of the rest of it. The plot has a lot of head scratches. Well, it's literally just, you know, Shane Black and Robert Downey, and we're going, "Well, what's going to be the semi-autobiographical, soul-searching movie in the context of my big superhero franchise?" You know? And so it's just like, you know, and in the meantime, let's also kick the fanboys in the balls and pretend the Mandarin's bullshit. And demon in the bottle isn't about anything. Yeah. I think if you want to do it-- But it's barely a demon in the bottle. I know, which is the saddest thing about it, because the movie starts with everyone has their demons as the voiceover, and you're like, "Oh, cool, they're going to sack up, and they're going to do this, and it's going to be very intense and internal." And it was intense and internal in a different direction. Right. Because they touched upon demon in the bottle in Iron Man 2. It's okay. You know, we get a little nod. Good enough. No. Because here they do go very heavy into Tony, and they go very heavy into each of these-- I think a lot of these characters, I thought the stuff-- I don't even know where to start. I mean, I think the problem with having this many characters isn't so much about the movie. It's about, how do you start talking about this movie? Because I immediately want to start talking about-- Well, let me say this-- About Wakandan stuff and Father's son stuff. Okay. Let me say this. I'm going to get the bad out of the way. Well, yeah. But for me, like, walking out of the theater, it's so much about inheritance, this movie. Yes. And about, like, mothers and fathers and sons. Absolutely. And I think that's amazing. Yeah. Even down to Zemo's motivation. Yes. And I got a love-- I loved Daniel Burl, and Zemo's easily my favorite Captain America villain. He's awesome. That's my negative, actually. Okay. Let's go for it. Okay. So as we said a few minutes ago, you know, the biggest fall in the Marvel movies are the villains. Right. Loki's great. So, again, I mean-- Sure. You know, and Loki and Thor-- I wanted Malakith to step up a little more in Thor too. Yeah, but yeah. But again, you have Loki, so, you know, there it is. You know, same thing in Avengers. I mean, you know, Loki's always great. But in the Iron Man movies, villains always a little bit, you know, iffy. I like Ronan. I like Ronan. I like-- I like Yellow Jacket. So, as I was saying to you before we started, I just watched Ant-Man again. I loved it the first time I loved it the second time. Yeah. Criticism is, once again-- It's the dark version of that one. But it played great. Yeah, I think-- It was absolutely great. Yeah. It was absolutely great. And of course, still it kills that guy. It shrinks when it steps on. So in this movie, and this is-- Again, I love this movie so much. This is such a tiny quibble. But Zemo's not Zemo. Zemo is not purple-faced, mush-mouth Zemo. No, he's not. But-- Wait, back up. Let's explain this. Yeah. In the comic books, originally, Baron Zemo is a Captain America villain from the '40s who's a Nazi. Yes. Okay. He's actually the reason in the comics that he made a bomb that goes to New York. He lands in the ice. He lands in the ice and Bucky seemingly dies. But they give that to the Red Skull. And we know that that's been re-attributed to the Red Skull. And that's fine. And then, again, in the comics, they move forward and Zemo's son comes around. Sure. It takes over. So you have your father and son theme. So going into the movie, we knew Zemo was going to be in it. Kind of excited for that. In Zemo's doing this, we learn later for his family. Yeah. But-- In-- In-- In-- I mean, what is he, is this Kovia Black Ops guy? But here's the thing. Here's why he's a great villain in this movie. He wins. Oh, he's a great villain because-- It doesn't make him a great villain. That means that the story is tight. It's given credit to the story. But actually, you know what? Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Let me take that back. He's the person who did this. Let me take it back. The story is fine making him Zemo bothered me. He didn't need to be Zemo. He's not Zemo. Well, he's after Cap. Okay. And he manipulates Bucky. And the entire time he's searching for information to manipulate Bucky-- Okay, granted. --to use as a weapon, not just against Cap, but against Tony and against each other. Okay. If Zemo is nothing but a brilliant strategist in the comics, I would say, "Yeah, this is Zemo." And Zemo is a master manipulator. I'll give you that. This is Zemo. No more-- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's a clear mic. But it's fine. I think this is very much Zemo because he's a master manipulator in the strategist in this. And that was like, "Wow." He did everything but pulled that damn purple mask over his face. And-- I do love the line at the end about, "Oh, you know, your autism, did I?" He didn't lose. No, he didn't lose. Yeah. He did what he's having. The Avengers are completely asunder and only the threat of Thanos can bring them back together. Dude, the term is disassembled. Disassembled. Got it. Yeah, got it. Yeah, the Avengers are disassembled and only the threat of Thanos can bring them together, right? Well, actually-- Is that the narrative? I felt it was, but I am laughed very much wondering, "Do we get them in Black Panther?" Because that's before that. Well, do we get them in Spider-Man Homecoming? We definitely get Tony. No, we get Tony. Yeah, I know. And I'm fairly certain that we don't get the rest. Right. It's fine and we shouldn't. All right. So, okay, I see a point. Yeah. I love it. You make good points. That was my initial reaction with Zemo, but you make good points. I like it. I need to see it a second time. Buddy, we all need to see it a second time. Yeah, yeah. This movie was such a surprising-- and it sucks that I'm down to the point where this stuff is surprising to me when it's really, really good, but Marvel has kept itself at such a high level for so long that-- You keep expecting them to fall. Well, yeah, I think collectively we sit there and go, are they going to be able to pull the hat trick again? I stopped thinking that Guardians and Ant-Man, I'm now going, wow, it's just so-- Bring on Four Bush Man. This one I knew was going to be great. And the fact that this one narratively is so perfectly both a sequel to Winter Soldier and to Avengers 2, and again-- Iron Man 3. And Iron Man 3. And upping the level because Avengers 2 was a disappointment. Yeah. And Winter Soldier was so high that we're literally going, how can it possibly be that good? And it is. And it's a prequel to several other movies. Yes. The Next Avengers phase and Spider-Man, what can we do? It completely sets up Black Panther. And Black Widow. It completely sets up-- are they doing a Black Widow movie? Well, you shared that Kevin Feige interview and in it Feige saying, well, obviously that's worth contemplation because she's a character that we're all very excited about. And now they've left her in that in-between place, which is actually the perfect place with Black Widow. I think that climate is right for it. But obviously we set up Black Panther. We see that in the post-credit. And we set up Spider-Man. We all knew that was coming. I think this movie-- again, I'm just going to go back to that. It does so many things. I think that this is the most dynamic Marvel movie. By the way, a lot of people feel that they want to see a new Avengers movie that just caps squad going off having nothing to do with them for any war and doing what they're doing. That's why I wonder if we're going to get some of that Black Panther or not. Yeah, I think that just like Thor is running around conforming with Hulk, you know, wherever they are in Ragnarok. Oh, god. It's going to be so much fun. I think that we're just seeing these two heavy hitters just smash it up. And I also love that they're talking about it. I thought, what's his name? Help me out here. William Hertz character. General Ross. When General Ross is saying, do you even know where Thor and Hulk is right now? If I lose a Megaton bomb, I'm responsible for it. And you guys don't even know where these two most powerful things on the planet are. Right. And yes, you have to be held accountable for that. Again, that's a really economic line. And it's a great line. But Cap, what is that? They have the right to the type of himself and what they are now. And it so clearly puts in perspective and just that back and forth, how you set the entire chessboard. And it was, and again, like with Black Widow, there's a great Asian there and Vision has his own logic based reasons for doing these things. And Sam is sometimes, sometimes thinking about, okay, well, I'm obviously going to follow Steve, but I have my own like reasons for this. They just did a really great job and then Wanda on the other hand is, she's part of this because she didn't like the choices being made for her. She looks up and she's a prisoner in the Avengers building and she's like, wait. Okay. Well, I could have stayed here. No, yeah. But then, the great mom, if you're in Hawkeye and Vision and so she goes like, no, I gotta get out of here. Yeah. And she's like, but this choice is made for me. Right. This entire movie paints these characters in different shades when they could have just been like your team A and your team B, which was the marketing campaign. Yeah. It's fine. But in the movie, it was, I mean, knowing that that was the marketing campaign, I went into this movie and was like, okay, this is going to be too simplistic and I'm going to be bored and then seeing that this movie actually took its time and actually painted them all in different shades, there was a lot to chew on and it was all really entertaining and the ball was never dropped and from that first five minutes in Africa that action sequence, just seeing the pains taking detail in which they choreographed the fights, there wasn't just a flurry of punches. Like sometimes when I was watching a Winter Soldier, I was like, these are some pretty cool fight scenes, but every now and then there's the flurry of punches or the flurry of kicks. And that for me always feels like treading water in a fight where it's like, okay, well, each punch thrown doesn't really, you know, it's like after a while there's a redundancy to that, the fight scenes, every single one, each punch had an impact, each bullet had an impact, each deflection had an impact, very much so in that first scene. And I thought it was remarkable how creative these fights were and I thought it was leaps above Winter Soldier and Winter Soldier was obviously the benchmark at that point. This was like the raid level stuff and I think those fight scenes are remarkable. This was such a raising of the bar that my jaw was down, it was like just slack the entire time I was watching it. You never get that viewer fatigue of, okay, it's just a special effects extravaganza and I'm just lulled into complacency, it's just you're really excited. I think some of that, like particularly, you know, towards the later scenes when you have all the heroes fighting each other, is that you have a stake in every character. It's not like Avengers or Avengers 2 where they're just beating up, you know, the multitude of minions. Yeah, no, it was pretty awesome and the only major fly I have is not even that major is with that scene because I'm invested very much so in the vision. And the vision shows up and you think that the game is up because caps forces are running for the helicopter and they want to go find out these super soldiers that Zima Hanao has access to from having access to the code and find out where the silo is in Siberia that they're hidden and caps got to go stop them because there's going to be a plague of super soldiers if he doesn't. And all of a sudden the vision shows up, cuts a line in the sand and says, I think this is over and I'm thinking about the vision's power set and saying, yeah, this is over. And then for the most part when that fight now erupts, vision is sidelined. And I don't see the justification for sidelighting. Well, let me say this. So the Rooster Brothers actually discussed the notion of no Thor and no Hulk. Because if they're around, it's all over. They either have to fight each other. Yeah. They just, yeah, they just, it's just so completely totally. But the vision's power set is he could face through either of those characters and also messed up. Well, and that's just it. So the vision is the one character that actually, I mean, he outclasses everyone. So maybe we could have seen more of it, but I thought they did do a pretty good job in his conflict as a wand that he's distracted. Yeah, I would have liked to see that in that scene. You would like to see more of that. Yeah, I understand. Because he does, I mean, he disappears for a lot of that scene. And it's, keep in mind that scene gives us Goliath and that fucking sequence is so surprising, giant man. And I got to say, Marvel, Disney marketing, thank you. Because that is such a pop moment that you could have put into a trailer. Yeah. He didn't give it in the trailer. I'm sure it'll be in a trailer this week. I lost my damn mind when he did that. I was like, what's he going to do? Is he going to shrink? What's he going to do? And then all of a sudden he enlarges over the sides of the plane and you're like, oh my god. The unfortunate reality is because of the toys these days, there are clues out there. I avoided it. I didn't see it, but it had been mentioned to me, but it was really so great. - This fight scene is so much fun. And again, it was something that I anticipated as giving me a fatigue going into the movie. I was like, okay, they're gonna be fighting each other, but it's not gonna matter. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. - What about fight man's line? Oh, they're not slowing down. - The fight scene is so fucking awesome. And we, I can't, I don't even think I have the time on this episode to give you the fucking love letter from Tom Holland that I, you know, you guys have listened. If you lived on the show for a long time and you guys heard my review of the impossible, you know, I'm Tom Holland fanboy for years. And then this kid playing the greatest superhero of all time is my dream come true. And he did not disappoint down to the Queen's accent. And the Queen's Brooklyn stuff is brilliant. But again, going back to the vision, if we see Wanda in danger and the vision wanting to, wanting to maybe interfere, but he's chosen a different side, or you see Wanda starting to go off the rails with her power set and he wants to interfere. Like I didn't, I lost vision for large parts of that, that fight. And he's somebody who could easily have turned the tide in any way. And even if it's like Paul Bettany, he's like one of the greatest actors there is. So just seeing his quandary in that moment would have kept him in that narrative instead of losing him for large patches of thought. - I think, I have to watch it again, but I think that the way you have to look at that scene is they move to the different fights and you have to view them as simultaneous. - Yeah, yeah. So where's he? - Yeah, but what I'm saying is there's not as much time happening there as what's on screen. - Yeah, no, no, that listens to the point. A sequence that's 10 minutes is really just two, but yeah, it's these five simultaneous things. You know what, guys, that is my argument with the movie. What I just told you about the vision in one scene, it was my argument with the movie. I thought this movie was so incredibly impressive and progresses the Marvel Universe so much with the Peggy Carter stuff, the Tom Holland stuff, the Wakandan stuff, the Wakandan father son stuff, because you know something's happening. I'm just like, there's so much depth to it. - As you said, there's so much family stuff going on in this movie. Look, you know, we knew back in the winter soldier that she was gonna be charin' car. Right, that Emily Van Campbell can be charin' carter. - We love her. - Yeah, and it was interesting 'cause, you know, Agent 13, like, so we knew. And it was very interesting, it was like, oh, they didn't actually say it, you know? You weren't sure, and this was the perfect way, you know? - And they're using aspects of the Katha America's death storyline in treating her with, and they're doing it now in the books after the fallout of like the Pleasant Hills stuff where Maria Hill is very much like on trial for what she's done in the Marvel universe. In the comics, guys, you know, they created a prison with a cosmic cube where they basically retrofitted villains into thinking they're everyday societal members. Society members are contributing members to society, and slowly the, like, locks, you know, the mental locks start falling into place in the villains starting with Zemo, start figuring out, oh, I'm not just a normal guy working in society, I'm a supervillain, and then all of a sudden, shit starts hitting the fan, and who we all point to, Maria Hill, who decided it, so Sharon Carter's now kind of working her way into becoming the director of SHIELD, I think. - I don't see it that much. - She's a CIA, she all this. - But, but Sharon Carter's role in the whole Katha death sequence and this and that, like, she's very much like on the guys, I'm not supposed to be doing this, I very much could lose my job, but I gotta get you guys the information so you guys can be the heroes you are. And the Sharon stuff is amazing in this movie. - I love her. - Yeah, I see it as just that, you know, we saw him win a soldier is, 'cause look, before the hydro reveal happens, she's already made a decision. I'm not going up against Katha America. - Yeah. - You know, that's where, and-- - And it used to talk to him, we talked about him. - Well, and that just did, when you have the reveal, even though we comic fans watch him win a soldier new, when you have the reveal that, okay, she's pegged his niece, she grew up knowing about Katha America, I mean-- - And she's Sharon Carter. - Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, you know, of course. That's where she ends up. - And as good as that scene is where the ultimately kiss, the best part of that scene isn't even that. It's, can you move your seat up? - Yeah. - Oh my God. - The Bucky Sam's episode is awesome. - It's so, it's so, so funny. - The two people in the book inherit the Katha America mantle in the movie are awesome. - And in fact, in the comics that we just had a great scene between them, just acknowledging that, the fact that these are the two, these are Cap's two best friends, different arrows in his life, and to see them interact, and that's just it. There's really just so much going on in that scene, you know? - One line. - Yeah. - To go back to like how good the Russo brothers are, one line. - Great. - And you're like, I mean, that was the highlight of the movie for Laura, and Laura loves the movie. - Yes. - I mean, guys, that's great writing. - Absolutely. - And I don't even know if that's improv or what, but that was fucking awesome. - So, let's go back to this. I mean, first of all, what I'm about to discuss is just talking about the VFX of this, which I understand was one of the most difficult things in the movie to do. But, beginning of the movie, seeing Robert Downey Jr. Young, and he's exactly, exactly what he used to look like through CGI. - Yeah. - I mean, it's Robert Downey Jr. from like, "We're Science." - Yeah. - You know, it's, yeah, it's like, wow. Like, it's perfect. - Yeah, but it was also great in "The Ant Man" when you saw that with Michael Douglas and-- - Yeah, no, they've been doing a great job with that. But it was just uncanny. - I was unprepared for how good that was. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I have to say that, well, first of all, I mean, I think going into the movie, I suspect that they were gonna do that. So, for me, I don't know, but you were, I instantly was like, okay, well, clearly, when it's told you killed Howard Stark. - You were thinking of that when you were seeing that sequence. - Absolutely. - But when you saw the 1991 plot line-- - Since I saw '91, I said, okay, well, when it's told I was about to kill Howard Stark. And then they waited 'til later to show that that happened. - And Howard Stark's an "The Ant Man"? - Yes. - He's in that scene with Michael Douglas. - Yes. - Okay, so he was fresh on your mind. - Yeah. - Okay, so you saw that coming-- - No, I knew that he was involved in "Shield" and everything. - Okay, so for me, that revelation of, I'd almost forgotten the whole Howard Stark stuff by the time I got that scene where Bucky sees the video at the end. And I was like, I get again. And of course, the three hours applaud you, yet again, Russo brothers, 'cause this movie never fell long. And you can think that the highlight, that the pinnacle of this movie is the fight at the airport. There's still 30 minutes left. Maybe 20, but-- - Yeah. - And it does not feel like a fourth act. - No. - It felt great. - Yeah. - And then again, it felt very much personal, yet again, to cap. And it takes it back to the captain-- - As you said before, it's a long movie. I guess the enemy, and you're like, that's it. Why is it ending? - Yeah, no. I could've-- - I want more. - Isn't that crazy? - Don't stop. - How dangerous do you think that is? - It's insane. - That one? - It's insane. So going back to that scene, so first of all, question, 'cause I've only seen it once, and so we initially see Bucky take what his package is, which is-- - The icy huts. - Yeah, so the icy huts that are blue, so they're a version of the super-social serum, and that's what they put into the other winnous soldiers, right? - That are in the Siberian silo, yeah. - Okay. - Yeah, that's what that was. And obviously, you think that Zemo wants an army of those things-- - Absolutely. - And Zemo says, no, I don't want any more of you, because Cap, you are what killed my family. - Right. - Such a fucking great surprise. - It's a brilliant twist. - So awesome, and you show up and you think that Cap and Bucky and Iron Man are going to have, and T'Challa are gonna end up having to fight super-soldiers. I was like, oh, this is gonna be some fucking badass shit. And you get there, and Zemo's gone another way. He said, no, I've killed all these super-soldiers. I have to remove them from the board, because these dangers need to be destroyed. - Which mind you is exactly what the world government is saying. - And it's so consistent with his character. - But he's like, if you guys didn't exist, my family would still be alive. So I'm not gonna allow these super-soldiers to exist. And if anything, I'm gonna have you guys discover this so you can kill each other. - But in fact, what's really interesting, what's so smart about this movie, is you actually have the bad guy in the world government who see a record, good guys, they actually have the same goal. - Yeah. - Right? - Because Zemo's the shit, that Zemo's the shit. - He's actually shutting them down. - I think Zemo is awesome. And I think he's awesome in this movie. And when he moves forward in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and he ultimately pulls that cap over his face, I'm just gonna fucking stand up and applaud, man. Because Zemo wins. - So that's another interesting thing that, you know, and he's more of a manipulator than Loki was. - Let me say this, I don't intend to go off on a big tangent going into Batman for Superman, but something I thought about watching this movie that Zack Snyder had said in regards to Batman v Superman, and the absolute ridiculousness of how he just killed Jimmy Olsen, we've talked about it before. But what I was thinking to myself is that, all right, so you have this giant playing field, and there's only so many stories they can do. And so they killed the crossbones so, you know, pretty quickly. - In marketing, I mean they wrote the script, so like as much as I'm like praising the Russo brothers, I think those two screen readers. - Absolutely, absolutely, and they didn't wanna soldier, absolutely. - Yeah, this is a step up from all of it. - So, my point is that, like you just made reference to Zemo pulling the mask on. Maybe we'll get that, maybe we won't, but though I suspect probably not. - Right. - Okay, point being that in the comics, so many of these characters have such a rich history of so many years, and you know, we even mind your villains recur often. And in these movies, I think like, you know, literally, one of my friends said, oh my God, I can't believe they killed crossbones like that. I was like, well, honestly, you've now had crossbones and have that major role in two movies. Like, you're not getting anymore crossbones. - What do you want him for? - What's what I'm saying? - Yeah. - Is, he's still around, the comics running around. - I will admit though that there's a part of me that hopes that somehow Zola got into the internet. - Yeah. - Like I want Zola, I won't worry. - That would be great. - Zola. - No, it was great. But again, you had Zola in the first Captain America in the second one. How much Zola do you need in these movies? I mean, that's paying pretty great, you know, service to this character. So, you know, so that's an interesting thing. - I would still like the Red Skull. - Absolutely. But we only had him in one movie. - It would've been wrong. - And he's a major character. - It would've been pretty sweet of Robert Redford who had pealed his skin off and been the Red Skull. - That would've been great. - In Winter Soldier. - That would've been great. - It might've been too cheesy, but it would've been fucking awesome. - But especially considering the Hydra aspect of it all, that would've been great. - He feels his head of mask off in his head. - And by the way, and that actually would've really held true to the comics. - Right. - You know, that's the kind of thing that's coming. - It's the one thing I wanted the most out of Winter Soldier was like, Robert Redford's character being Red Skull and being like, oh, by the way, I've been with you a whole ton of congrats. - But there's an argument to be made that that's just a little bit too convenient comic book. - Totally. - It would just be the character that you already knew. - Totally. - As opposed to just being someone else that would, you know, maybe someone but their own motivation. - Yeah, it would've shrunk the world a bit. - Exactly, exactly. So coming back to that flashback scene, you know, at the beginning of the movie, for me, and again, a place that the movie did something unexpected, I felt that the interest is an interesting idea. So this is Tony's presentation at MIT we find as they back up, you know, initially, you know, you're thinking it's really more about the flashback where you end up seeing his Tony's memories and he says something very interesting to me. He says he spent $611 million to basically come up with something that's for his own therapy to deal with memories that are causing trauma. And the connection I instantly made in my mind in a lesser movie, well, actually I should say, in a movie that wasn't a franchise that would've paid off in therapy for the Winter Soldier. - Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. - A lot of people I've said it to him. He's like, "Right, I didn't see this." He's like, "Well, I felt like that's exactly where I expected that to go." - Yeah, Tony could've used that technology for Bucky. - Right, and so obviously where the movie ends, they haven't come together, so that doesn't happen. - Right. - You know, similarly, you know, when the movie ends, it's actually in the tag, you know, when a soldier's arms are ripped off, now you see him in Wakanda and you just think, "Oh, he's gonna give him the arm," which I'm sure they are gonna do, but they're gonna give him a new arm. - Yes. - But instead, they just freeze him, because it's what they're gonna do, but they didn't do it yet. Also similarly, and referencing the comments. - Will you give him a new arm, or are they gonna give him a new claw? - No, they're gonna give him a new arm. - I know what you do, yes. - Do you think Winter Soldier plays into the Black Panther movie? - Well, I hope so. - With the claw being the villain in this movie? - I hope so. I hope freezing him in Wakanda means that we get him, you know, in Black Panther. The other thing, that's actually important. So, you know, at the end of the movie, Cap walks away, leaves the shield, and Falcon, you know, they got him out of jail, but they, sure they don't have their weapons. Well, you know, in the comics, the chala, Black Panther, actually designs more modern wings for Falcon. - Right. - You know, did it, I think it was in the music run of Avengers. - Okay. - But it's, you know, in the 2000s, which is, you know, more recent anyway. So, I mean, I think that's all, it's all there. We don't even need to see it. It can be implied. - Well, like the chala can be the person that Tony was in immersing this movie. - Well, and that's exactly something that goes on in the comics. It's usually, it's either Tony or T'Challa. - Yeah. - You know, that does it. - Or Deadpool. - Or Deadpool. - Well, that's what's going on now. - That's now, yeah. - Yeah. - But, you know. - It'll ultimately be Peter one day, but. - Or Iron Fist. - Yeah. - There are a lot of- - Talking about the money, but actually the tech know-how. - Yeah. - You know. But, so that I thought was very interesting. But anyway, what I was saying in regards to- - The flashback. - Not having that paid out in this movie. It's very much acknowledging the franchise of it all. - Yeah. - And I think that was kind of interesting. - Were you left hanging is what you're saying? - It's not hanging because it's just, look, going into this movie, at the end of when a soldier, you know, you have that little tag of Buck in the museum, you think, okay, he's remembered everything and he's good. So for a second, I was like, oh, he's not quite there? - Right. - Like, but you know what, that's realistic. I like the idea of, you know, and then it's coming back to him and the programming, you know, gets, you know, enacted again and- - Zemo says the magic words again? - Yeah, yeah, because he's conditioned. And that's actually consistent with when a soldier, he starts getting his memory back and then he gets reset. - One question, why did Zemo allow for the individual in the bathtub to be found? - Because that was part of his plan to get Tony there. - To get Tony there, got it. - Okay. - Literally I was sitting in the movie and our friend Justin was like, why would he do that? It doesn't make sense. - Yeah, why didn't he just briefly get away? - And afterwards I said, because we thought we knew what the plan was. - Yes, yeah. - If the plan was to actually have the army, then you don't want to leave any clues, no. His whole point was to let them get there. He was luring them, and it was a very clever subtle. - You win Marcus McFeely. You win. - Movies good. - Yeah. - Beyond good. - Yeah, and my danger to geekskapists is that this thing just turns into a giant praise fest, but the movie's that good. And it's really hard to talk about in any kind of critical way, 'cause to me this is the best Marvel movie. And one thing I can do, playing here with Ian, and we've kind of done it before already is like, how does this affect, does it affect Guardian's volume too at all? - No. - Okay. - And by the way, when we talk about the tags at the end. - Yes. - No Thanos. - No Thanos. - But, you know, I was gonna say we don't get another gem, but we do have conversation about Vision's gem. - Absolutely, the mind gem, the mind gem's a huge part of this movie as far as Vision's concerned. And he talks about it and he talks about controlling it or learning how to control it. And you think, oh, this could go dark for Vision, which I love. I'm only gonna raise the conversation about Guardian's volume too, because we get that before Infinity War. - Well, we should. - Yeah, well, it's scheduled to be. - Yeah, but I'm saying, we're still setting up the Thanos of it all. - Right, and that movie's very important. - So, the Thanos of it all may be like the lack of a Thanos in the post credits for this movie, may just be quite a bit of Guardians. - Yeah, but Guardians Volume 2 might be the setup for Infinity War. - That's what I'm saying. - Yeah, I think we're both saying that. - That's absolutely the case. - Okay, so Scott Lang was within that prison, the Raft at the end of this movie. How does this set up Ant-Man and the Wasp? - Well, that's why I'm wondering what we get in Black Panther. - Right. - Is Ant-Man and the Wasp before it Infinity War after it? - Not sure. - I think it's after it. - It's pretty awesome. - Yeah. - I'm excited about it. Scott Lang was, I mean, obviously we talked about the Giant Man stuff. Love it. - So good. - He had to share the Iron Man stuff. - He had to share the Iron Man stuff. - But what about the Iron Man stuff? - Yeah. - Ant-Man, jumping into the armor, was awesome. - Yeah. - And we literally, that's one of the things about the design of the cinematic Iron Man suit is Vents. - Yeah. - You know, that, you know, yeah. So he can get in. - And Ant-Man takes Iron Man out, which is awesome. We've already seen him take the Falcon out, which is great. - And yet at the same time, then Iron Man flushes him out. So it's just great. - And he pulls another trick. I'm bigger than all of you. - Yep. - You know? It would've been cool to see Vision then, where it's like, okay, well, if they're gonna do Giant Man, I have no quandary with involving myself at this point, 'cause like, he really takes over for a while. One question-- - Well, he did face through him. - Yeah, one question, you're right, you're right. One question, the believability of a nerd growing up in Queens, not knowing Hawk? Come on. That kid knows Hawk. - No, he did know it. - He goes that old movie. - So he knew it. - Yeah, he goes that old movie. - His reference is that it's an old movie. He's seen it. He knows the movie, but think about what he's saying. - No, that's not even that. - He's 15 years old, so he's just acknowledging, well, I'm a big geek, so I've seen this movie, but he doesn't have the perspective to know if these other people, hey, do you guys know this movie, 'cause it's an old movie. - It's fucking hilarious. - You know, it's just, it's a kick in the ball. - Do that movie. - For those of us. - That was so fucking funny. - It was great, but literally what he's saying is, I know this movie, I'm a giant geek. I'm too young to really know what everyone else's life experience is. So I just know it's an old movie. I don't know if you guys have seen this or not. I'm too young to have perspective, but I like it. - He was awesome. He was awesome. - Yeah, and by the way, I mean, just speak to you about how great this movie is as a total geek fest. There's a Star Wars call out. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, it's literally like every geek in the world, oh, how do you fight the big thing when you're small? Well, you trip 'em up, like, unhuff. - Yeah. - I mean, awesome. - It's pretty fucking great. Pretty awesome. Okay, so we got that. This inhuman thing bothers me, 'cause you and I are caught up on "Shield." We're watching "Shield." The Cree involvement on "Shield" is pretty heavy at this point. - I mean, literally when I saw the blue packet, I was like, is it Cree blood, you know? - Cree blood, super-soldier stuff, it seems like. - Yeah, but they do try not to do that because, I mean, the production schedule of TV versus features is very different. - How do we, what's gonna go on with this inhuman thingy and explain it to us? - Well, so when we talk about the show, we've had the Inhumans on the show for a while, and now the fact that the Inhumans is off the schedule, you know, which is-- - The film. - A little bit of setting, yeah, the film. You know, what they're saving, you know, the Inhumans were originally introduced in the comics as it's the royal family, and then ultimately you get, only recently do you actually really see much of other Inhumans, you know? Post In Humanity, and even with that, it's really more about what they call the new humans, the Inhumans that have recently been created because the terror is all over the place, which they've done on the show. I think what they've done a good job of in the movie is this acknowledgement that, hey, guess what? There are all these other people out there. They don't actually have to call out that it's because of the show, whatever else, but superpowers are popping up. I actually love that this movie has a macro view of the MCU, of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and actually gives us that this is happening in real time. They actually say it's been eight years since Iron Man came along, and it's vision's monologue when he talks about what's happened, and he talks about it as escalation. It's interesting because what we've discovered, particularly, we've seen it actually in the movies right away at the end of Iron Man, Nick Fury shows up, did you think you were the only one? This is a bigger world, this is just our introduction to it, for Tony Stark, but stuff's been going on, and if you watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., you come to realize that stuff's been going on for a long time. - And, of course, we've seen Peggy Carter, and they found a shield, and they were doing stuff exactly, Ant-Man, he was doing stuff for years. Thor, this stuff's been around a long time. The people know about it or not, but it's been there. It's been around. - So, I think that's something that you have to recognize that there's this bigger world here. The difference is that, up until now, I was gonna say it's more secret, it's actually not so much about that. When you think about it in the context of Thor, it's that humanity wasn't in a place except the world governments and powers and abilities, and the ability to actually do something about things like this. You talk about things like the internet, and just technology in general, and how it's made a smaller world. Where everyone's aware of what happens. If there was a disaster thousands of years ago that Asgardians caused, people would just would throw it off to an actual disaster. So, that's sort of the macro of what we're seeing to put it in real world terms. In those real world terms, with governments having abilities now, one of the great things, I've said this before, one of the great things that they've done in the movies in general, and in particular, I thought, in the pilot agent's shield, was this idea that suddenly you have all this technology, you know, you have these super soldier serums, you have Chitari technology running around, and integrating it all together. - You just think I liked it all of that. - Yeah, well, that's what they've been doing consistently. And you see that in Avengers 2, you see that in this movie that other people, they scavenge the technology and they use it. The bad guys are using it. Something I thought that was very, very clever in the first Avengers as this idea of, oh yeah, here's this weapons, well, we need a power source. - Right. - You know, so the Testerach, you know, like, yeah, this technology has to work with an energy that we didn't actually have. - And the Testerach is now in Vision's Head, where's the Testerach? That became the mind gem in Avengers 2 in the creation of Ultron. Did they use the Testerach for the-- - No, no, the Testerach, the Asgardians have. - The Asgardians have. - Yeah. - Okay, and the Red Skull got-- - The Red Skull had it. - Lost it. - Got shot in this wherever. - Right. - Okay, the mind gem came from, the thing in Vision's Head, in Age of-- - Came from Lucky Staff. - Lucky Staff, which was a separate gem. It was a separate gem. - Which, by the way-- - That was the mind gem. - I happened to say-- - That was the mind gem. - That's my biggest problem with Avengers at the first movie. Thanos would never hand Loki one of the gems. - Right. - That doesn't make any sense to me. In the overall view of Thanos looking at gems, I thought that was a little like, wait, what? - You just gave him the mind gem, like that. - Yeah, he's just some, he's barely even your minion. Why, to subjugate Earth? What is that about? - Right, okay, so the mind gem that is Vision with Loki's staff, the Cosmic Cube is the Cosmic Cube. The-- - We haven't seen all of them yet. - No, we haven't seen all of them yet. - I think the Ayavaca model is probably gonna be the Soul Gem and Dr. Strange. - Okay, and then the one in, the one in Guardians was the-- - Power, wasn't it? - Sure, let's do that. - I suspect, you know, we'll probably get one more in in the other Guardians movie. - Right. - 'Cause it's gonna be more Thanos Central. - Right. - But anyway, the point is that, you know, looking at the whole world, you know, and what they're doing, and I think it's very smart. So it's the modern times, you know, and governments have power, and they have technology and all that, and so they're actually gonna, you know, people are aware of all these things happening, and they're looking to address it. So I think it's very clever. As I said earlier, it's interesting, you know, post-Civil War in the comics, the new Avengers was a comic that spun out of, it was, you know, the team of Avengers that were anti the Registration Act, and so they've now set this team up. So I'm wondering, do we get that in Black Panther, you know? I'm not sure I wanted that, but I mean, I expected that in Black Panther movie, yeah, but, I mean, where do we see what they're doing? Is the question, you know? - Yeah, it's almost like the Black Panther movies, I mean, obviously the obvious choice is like the Reggie Hadland run, or like the first game on the book, and did the-- - Well, by the way, and we get Everett Ross in this movie. - Yeah. - So, again, for the listeners, Everett Ross is a character that was actually introduced in Christopher Priest's run on Black Panther, which is a great run, and I actually think, like Black Panther had had some runs previously, they had him as a teacher in the '70s for a while, it didn't really make any sense. But when he really got noticed as having his own book, it was actually popular. - And that's the character that Martin Freeman plays. - Exactly, so now that they have this character, so in the comics, what they introduced him is, he's a State Department official who becomes, he calls Black Panther the client, 'cause he comes to America and he's a liaison, and it's pretty much the child does whatever he wants, and so Ross is just trying to deal with it. So the fact that they have in this movie, I mean, again, this movie's so set up the Black Panther movie, I mean, he has to be in the Black Panther movie. - That'd be awesome. - Well, it's-- - Martin Freeman was hilarious. - It's literally the only reason you have that character and you make him that character is because you're gonna see him again. So yeah, so that's what I want in a Black Panther movie. I think a Black Panther movie, if we get some of these characters, it's cameos, you know? But yes, I would love, look, if you could easily say, you know, the other Avengers with good cap are off somewhere, you know, and would it be awesome to just do Win & Soldier in it? Would it be awesome? - Right, and then you have claw, any circus is it? - By the way, look, Tony has a technology to challenge and get it and use it. If you don't wanna make it about, you know, Tony and the Win & Soldier come together. One of the things I wanna say in the movie that I actually really liked, it's one thing, you know, you have Tony had issues with his father, it's flat out, called out the beginning of the movie. You know, they know that it's all about, you know, it wasn't really Bucky, it was brainwashed, but when Tony sees what he sees at the end there, and it's so, it's perfect. And I have to say this today, we're recording this on Mother's Day, it's, he killed my mom. - Yeah. - You know? It doesn't matter. - But why is brainwashed not brainwashed? - It doesn't matter, he killed my mom. I'm gonna kill this fucker. - Does it trouble you that both this movie and Batman vs. Superman boiled down to Mother's Day? - I literally turned to a friend of ours, and as soon as he said that, I was like, I went, Martha. - Yeah. - You know? Now it doesn't bother me. By the way, I love it as a meme, it's a great joke, the Martha thing, but I'm actually not as critical about that. Again, it's a great joke, suddenly a change, but no, in that moment, he recognized Superman as human and Batman be Superman. You know, I'm fine with that. Does it bother me? Does it bother me? 'Cause it's real. - Right. - Guess what? Most people either have mommy issues or daddy issues, and especially when you're putting on a costume and being a shit out of people. - You probably have. - You know? You probably have one or the other. - You probably have both. - Yeah. - Or both. - You probably have some fucked up shit going on. - So the reason I'm calling out what I like about it is, well, clearly Tony has his daddy issues. I mean, that's seeming what you think is defined everything, and it has. He doesn't have mommy issues. He has daddy issues. So daddy issues are confusing. - Yeah. - Mom, it's very clear. Mommy was supportive. He killed my mom. That's not about, there's not even a question there. - Right. - There's nothing to think about. - Right. - That's not a mommy issue. That's he killed my mom. - Yeah. - I'm gonna kill him. - Yeah. - So actually for me, I loved that. I love that it's not, you know, the dad thing, well, dad was, you know, involved in a shield, and I had issues with dad and killed him, and I'm, you know, you wanna even get to edit this complex of it on some level. I wanna kill my father, you know, that kind of thing. Fine, you know, but mom, that takes, that's the next level shit. - She did, yeah. - That's not okay. - Yeah. - You know, there's nothing, there's no coming back for me killed my mom. - We'll see him going forward. - I mean, honestly, there doesn't need to be, other than, as I said, I felt that the technology's there. It's almost like they've set up the Olive branch, right? I felt at the end of the movie, Tony is no intention of hunting them. You know, as he said he would, he- - He's got the cell phone. - But I'm saying, and Ross calls, and he puts him on hold, like he said he was gonna. He's not doing it, and he knows, whether he knows, well, actually, I do think, he knows he's been manipulated. - Right. - Did it matter in the moment? It didn't, but he knows. He gets it. It's not the right thing. They were in the right, and, you know, Bucky's not the villain. - Steve all aside, until Steve realized that one was being held prisoner, Steve all aside. - Well, they played him well, because he's Bucky. - Right. - You know, he did. But in that moment, that brought home the issue. - I love how Steve all resigned, because it was just really damn good writing again. - Well, again, and I said to you before the movie started, I said, you know, in the comments, it's very clear. It's about, you know, the individual rights, and conscripting people, and all that. But in this, just watching the trails, it's like, you know, it's hard to say who's side you're on. - Yeah. - And you understand the perspective of, all right, these things need to be controlled a little bit. - And the punch on the perfect teeth line that I never really agreed with in the trailers was handled so much better on the movie. - It's so much better. - 'Cause in the movie, in the trailers, I was like, well, that's funny. - It just seemed like a resentment. - That's not where the line goes, I think, because that doesn't seem like a nice response to what he just said. And then watching the movie, I was like, you guys are doing great. - And by the way, even when they gave the stuff again about, you know, oh, Howard, and all of it, and again, as I said a few minutes ago, Tony has his daddy issues, his resentment, and Cap actually encapsulates a lot of them, because he looks at Cap, and this is, oh, all I ever heard from my father, who I had major issues with, his cap, cap, cap, cap, cap. It's like his daddy issues are right in his face all the time. - Yeah. - You know, it's, oh, you're right about everything. You know, better than everything, you know. That's what that is, Fran. - It's awesome. - You know, and it doesn't actually feel like it's a retread at all when it comes up again. - Right. - It's like, that's there, that's fundamental. That, you know, the clash that's gonna happen. You know, I started saying before that I was worried, going into this movie, that it hadn't been earned. But what I actually like is that as soon as they acknowledge that this is all happening in real time, I feel a little differently about that. Well, guess what? It's eight years since Iron Man's been around. Cap and Tony now know each other, what is it, five, six years? I think it's five years? - Sure. - Just because we haven't seen everything doesn't mean that it's not there. I mean, 'cause, you know, in the trailer, you know, it's like, oh, you know, the whole line of it, oh, you know, I thought we were friends, you know? Well, guess what? They know each other a while. It's not, it works. - No, that line never told me in the movie. - I was just worried, like, you know, it was only a couple of things, you know? It's not like in the comics, it's years and years of working together. - Tony, you can have multiple friends. - What were your friends for different reasons? - Right, right. But Tony Stark is egocentric enough that you're taking a stand against me. Look, same thing, it's great. Falcom feels so completely upset and guilty about Rodeon comes in, and again, great direction, where he's walking over, "Oh, is he okay?" And Tony just picks the golem shoots him. It's just like, fuck you. - Right. Even though it was a vision as well. - Doesn't matter. - But, by the way, again, another great thing, speaking of that these guys and her films and all this has happened, you know, little nod to that Spider-Man scene at the end, okay? After the credits, with Aunt May, where she says, "Oh, Peter, as a black guy, what happened?" You know, "Oh, you know, who did it to you again?" Oh, it was Sky Steve. - This guy from Brooklyn. - Yeah, yeah. - That was awesome. - You know? It's like, "Oh, no, you know, I gave back to," you know. - Yeah. - No, guys, the movie's really damn good. It's probably my favorite movie so far this year. I have to quantify that Zootopia is fucking amazing. Zootopia and the Jungle Book are amazing, but this movie, hey, it scratched that itch that I've wanted to have scratched since I was 12. - Well, exactly. - And again, going into the movie was kind of like, this may be more of the same. It's not more of the same. It's way better. - And we were hopeful, as you said, that Batman V Superman was gonna really take care of that itch. And there's a minute in that movie. I mean, we saw that the other two, we came out, that third act, to see the Trinity on screen. It's like, "Oh my God, look at that." And it was okay. But this, this is just absolutely incredible. - Pretty impressive. - You know, that's the one thing that when you got to the first Avengers, and there it was, there they are on screen, and it's so exciting. And this just ups it so much. Honestly, as Florida's Avengers 2 is, the opening of Avengers 2, they are fighting it. It's awesome. They're a team, and they're working together, and it's great. And this, every step of the way, it takes it to that next level. - Yeah, no, this movie's awesome. Are we gonna do this again for X-Men Apocalypse? - You know, I was not excited about that movie, and then actually in this movie, seeing the trailer, I was like, you know, it might not suck. Yeah, we'll definitely do it again. - Dude, all I gotta see is New Jean Grey, New Scott Summers, New Nightcrawler. You know, and obviously my favorite mutant of all time, Colossus has already been satisfied with Deadpool. Like, I'm excited for the X-Men, guys. - And I have to say, you know, I don't think they should be depending on one character, but you saw the clause. - You saw the clause. - You know, 'cause they needed it. He needs the Sherlock. - And between you and I, I've seen more. - Okay. - Which is cool. He's not just a clop shot. - Great, great. - He had to be in it. - I'm not saying he's a shit ton of the movie, but it's gonna be cool. - You know, I was disappointed that we weren't getting a cable in this movie. The reality is, initially, Apocalypse, you know, you don't get cable. - Right. - And there's certainly a way, you know, I felt, all right, so then you're gonna get cable after and you're never gonna have that exchange, but the truth is the exposition, acknowledging that it came from that is fine. You know, I just would have loved a cable pop-up at the end. - Well, with any of those movies, I have a Wait and See Attitude. I have a Wait and See Attitude here for Civil War. Everybody would tell me it was great. I was like, all wait and see for myself. I saw for myself, I fucking loved it, can't wait to see it again. And Ian, we're gonna have you back for X-Men Apocalypse, we have to. - Yeah, just a few weeks away. - Dude, Keith gave us, see you on the regular show. Love you guys. Give us your feedback. We're around Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, all that stuff, okay? Leave a comment on our SoundCloud and let us know. What your thoughts were on Captain America Civil War. That was Ian. We'll see you in a few weeks, buddy. - Bye. - Bye.