Geekscape

Geekscape 21: Dig On This!

The All Spider-Man 3 Episode!!! Guest Host: Spider-Man Super Fan Ian Kerner and Spider-Man Super Creep Brian Gilmore review the movie IN DEPTH! Ben Dunn and Gilmore hit the Spider-Man 3 Midnite Screening Line! Did Heroes rip off X-Men Days of Future Past?!? What's your favorite Spidey story EVER!?! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Broadcast on:: 08 May 2007
Audio Format:: other

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello gigscapers, this is Craven The Hunter. I'm one of the greatest Spider-Man villains ever. In fact, I happen to kill Spider-Man in one thrilling encounter. But, things are a little rough right now. I'm not getting the fancy checks like the other Spidey Villains from the movies are getting. Well, actually, I'm supposed to be dead right now. But I'm not. You can't kill a good hunter. In fact, I've taken on some odd jobs. I laid brick for a while. And now, I'm sponsoring NetRiver.net. The one-stop shop for all of your internet needs. Please visit NetRiver.net. They're fantastic. 10% off if you use the promotional code GILMOR. He is the next one that I will hunt. Oh God, I love the taste of blood. Hey guys, welcome to episode 21 of Geekscape. I'm sitting here with Ian Kerner, Brian Gilmore, and the reason is Spider-Man 3. We're going to be talking about the movie. I've got my two good buddies, the Spidey Experts next to me. Ian, of course, is the person that I know on this planet had the most knowledge and appreciation of Spider-Man, period. You've read every issue. You know all the spider stories. You know everything, right? You're basically as close as I'm going to get to a spider expert outside of somebody actually writing the book or drawing the book or working at Marvel. Do you think that's accurate? Well, I mean, you're making me lose all sense if you know it, but yeah, I've read everything. There you go. And Brian, how would you put your spider sense next to... Spider sense? Yeah, how would you put that next to Ian? Well, I've just loved Spider-Man. He's been my favorite superhero for my entire life. Going back to 1985. Going back to 1985. Yes, his entire life. My entire life, which is extremely long. I started reading comics regularly collecting several years before he was born. Right. Right. Wait, this is someone who just asked me if I'd ever read Frank Miller's Ronin. Yeah, I read it before he was born. I wish I was kidding. I've been doing this shit before you were even. This is my first rodeo, Haas. Well, this isn't your first rodeo either. This is episode 21 of Geekscape over the next 45 minutes to an hour. We're going to be bringing you the latest movies, video games, comics. And we can start it right off with Spider-Man 3. Should we do the review? Or should we do you guys outside of the theater first? Just before we get the review, let's feel out what people were feeling and what we were feeling right before we actually saw the movie. That's right. We went to the UCLA campus for Spider-Man's midnight screening with most intense fans and our good buddy Ben Dunn and Brian Gilmore covered the scene. And here's some excerpts from that whole bit. Oh, yeah. Hey there, Geekscape. This is Ben Funnelfish Dunn, standing in line at the Spider-Man 3 midnight showing. We're going to go along, ask some people some questions, see who the true web heads are. All right, so we found Timon here. How's it going? He's got his little Spider-Man doll, his Spider-Man hand, and look at that, some Venom action right there. Ooh. Spider-Man key train. All right. So do you consider yourself a web head? Yeah, since I was born. Oh, really? So you want to answer some questions? Sure, I'll try. Who was his first girlfriend? Gwen Stacy. And who killed her? The Green Goblin? Oh. Ooh. Ooh, we got the cameraman's telling you that you're wrong. Darn. I'm telling you right now, it was Betty Brant. It was Betty Brant. I was led to believe that it wasn't. So you're wearing the black costume? Yeah, the black costume. All right. So what did he get the black costume? Basically, it came from Mars. It was a symbiote costume that came from a space landing accident. Yeah. A space landing accident? No. There was a war that was... Oh, the Secret War. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That too. That too. All right. Yeah, you're not worthy of that. Take it off. I don't want to. I know, take it off. I don't want to. This has been here with... Richard? Richard. Now, your friends here sacrificed you. They say that you are a web head. Are you a web head? Not really. They're just making me do this. Okay. We'll start off with the easy questions then. Easy. Easy questions. Now, what is Spider-Man's alter ego? Peter Parker? Very good. Very good. Now, the symbiote costume had an offspring. Who did it go to and what is its name? It was Carnage and I went to Casa de Clay. Something like that. No, that's actually Muhammad Ali. Which villain did Aunt May almost marry? Mysterio? How big is Peter Parker's dick? Ask her. Well... Who's Peter Parker's boss at the Daily Planet? Jay Jonah Jamison? Who did he work for at the Empire State University? Did you say Daily Planet, bitch? Daily Bugle. Who's Peter Parker's boss at the Daily Planet? You know that DC sucks, right? Sucks your mom. Oh, yeah. Oh, my mom. She doesn't have a penis, by the way. Alright, so here we are. We've actually found the man himself. Spider-Man, how are you tonight? I'm good, man. I'm good. Good. You're actually shorter than I expected. Yeah, well, Tony requires a little short, but I kind of stood in my growth. I didn't drink enough milk. Yeah, could you describe this shirt that you're wearing? Yeah, well, there's a lot of money, and there's jungle animals kind of, you know? Those look kind of like dinosaurs. Yeah, but jungle dinosaurs say the thing, you know. Hey, guys. My name is Brian Gilmore, and we are here at Opening Night, 1201 Spider-Man showing here in Westwood. And I'm here with, look at this line. This line is about two blocks long now, and these are basically the last people in line, and we just got some new additions right here, and we were going to hit on you guys. Not hit on, but, and so you guys are actually the last people in line. Did you guys know that? That's sad. So, do you guys understand that your noses are actually going to bleed from how bad your seats are? Well, I don't care. Spider-Man, I don't care. So, you guys kind of fucked up. You're at the end of the line. How do you, how do you, how do you, what were you guys doing? Well, what are you guys doing? Well, is this a PG-13 rating or something? Watching the basketball game? Ooh, okay, and we, and he's bluffing, trying to look cool, caught red-handed. Alright. If that's true, you just became the gayest guy in this line. He was prepping his web fluid, dude. A Thor shirt, for real? Yeah, for real. He's not like one of the lamest dudes. What's awesome about him? He's a Norse guide of thunder. That's my penis's name, actually. Yeah, okay, awesome. Woo! Can I get it to you? Woo! Yes, buddy! I have tasted web fluid. I have not tasted web fluid. Shot on my mouth directly. Why do you have to be such an asshole? Oh, yeah, that was awesome. That was awesome. That sounds kind of crazy. Oh, that's awesome. It's awesome. I went to see you with our good buddies from the forums. Brian Gilmore, who's right here. Ben Funnel Fish over here, who's off camera. Which is his near-your-last name. I'm sure he loves being constantly referred to as Funnel Fish. Yeah, do you like it, buddy? Yeah, what do you think about that? It's awesome. It looks like a giant fucking pearl. I take that as a compliment. It's awesome. And the clam was his mama. I have nothing else to say. Nice. That's disgusting and ridiculous. John is currently laughing his ass off. We're so sorry, audio listeners. No, it's an oyster. You just said clam for no reason. No, no, no, there was a reason. There was a reason we had clam in there as a oyster. Is this the way your nickname real fast? No, I'm not. I'm just as out of this as you guys. Oh, my God. I'm so glad you were just thinking of Ben's mom's vagina. All right, so how did you guys... Before we started the episode, when you said you were one in 1986, I told you that I would have to go back to the future to mid-1984 in order to bring to your mom before your dad did it, in order to stop you from happening. She was kind of a piece in her time. She was okay. Anyway, Spider-Man 3, what did you guys think? Jesus. All right. Clean the slate. And your mouth. Yeah. Spider-Man 3 thoughts. Let's start with Ian. What did you think of the movie? It's the best action scenes ever. So, starting right away, you know, the Spider-Man fan, you have to see it. But there are complaints. I know it's going to be shocking here. Definitely. But, you know, there's some big story complaints. Should we take a big view first? Spider-Man, Key to the City, big hero, everybody loves him? Come on. That's never been what Spidey's been. Never. He's always been the guy who's downtrodden, crapped on by life, and he's always got to get from point A to B to save Aunt May or Mary Jane in the middle of it, Doc Ock attacks or the Rhino attacks or somebody attacks. It's constantly, there's constantly a weight on his shoulder physically and socially. And they show that he has some money issues. But, you know, the thing is, is I understood the idea was they needed to build him up so that it would be believable that he would be so self-possessed that he wouldn't be paying attention to Mary Jane. Okay? Now, by the way, and this is going to be spoilers of plenty, I'm thinking of real shit. Oh, no, yeah. I had a time. Spoilers galore. Yeah, we're going to talk about this. If you haven't seen it fast forward to this one. This is going to be the nitty gritty. I got to say, I didn't see what these guys I saw in an IMAX, and when Mary Jane turns and kisses Harry Osborn, the entire theater either went horror or slut. Yeah, same here. Same here. Same here. UCLA, we did the same thing. I'll say right now that I've seen the movie a second time in yesterday's screening. It was more of a kid's audience, more of a family audience. People didn't laugh at all the bad Harry moments. Yeah. Did I? Everybody laughed at your screening when Harry was doing the... I love my friends. Yeah. I've got the best friends in the world. And he's kind of cracked out. Yeah. People were cracking up. They weren't taking a lot of time. But Jane's trying to always be in stone. They weren't taking a lot of the drama seriously. Yeah. The drama here isn't set up to be taken seriously, and it needs to be. Yeah. Because there's... The big problem with... I mean, about 20 minutes of the movie, I turned to Ben, and I said, "You know what? I'm not feeling this at all." I'm feeling like a Spider-Man movie is happening in front of me, but it's not happening inside of me. To you. Or to me. Do you get that? Yeah, I do. I get exactly what you're saying. I don't really want to talk about what Kilmer gets, but what's happening inside. Right. Right. Wow. For a character that, more than any other superhero epitomizes the everyman. Right. We are. Right. I could not have felt more removed from it. Detached from it. Definitely. Well, here's the problem. This is the third movie. At least they say two years has gone by. And my problem is when you look at Peter Parker, when you look at Spider-Man over the years, and I know some people complain about this, but you know what? And I'm going to be a little radical here, although I think you guys might agree, but it's actually time to recast, because Tobi doesn't grow up. Oh, God, yeah. And when they're trying to make him seem like a badass, because he's influenced by the symbiote, it's fine when he's in the costume, but when he's not in the costume, he's all, "Oh, they make his hair all spline." Yeah, he turns into Pete went from Fallout Boy. Yeah, it's like, it's pretty bad. Yeah, I hate people. I hate people who have hair like that. It's him trying hard. No, Hank. Hank, no. Hank, buddy. I mean, it's really atrocious. And okay. Kirsten Dunne's needs to never sing again, ever. And she does it twice in this movie. No, but I think that's fine, because she's supposed to be untalented. The first time that it was fine, and they say, "Okay, it wasn't good." Right. So then subject us to it again? Well, the thing is that you're supposed to be-- and you're supposed to kind of-- I like that part because it kind of got us-- it forced us to get to know that character as a character that was not good at singing, but she enjoys it. And then so you're sort of going through their lives. But she got to ask the Broadway show. That's the part that I'm like, "Why does she even get cast if she's that bad?" But for the rest of the time, if she's bad, okay, that's the least of my plays about this movie. There are a lot of places in this movie where-- I mean, I think the script had it gone through one or two more really solid drafts, because it didn't go through the people who-- I mean, Alvin Sargent did the last draft of Spider-Man 2. But before that, it went through Malarango, the dudes who do Smallville. Smallville. It went through Michael Shabon. Yeah. Spider-Man 2 script got a pounding. I feel as if this one didn't. No. And they throw the kitchen sink into this, and in trying to do everything, they accomplish nothing. No. I feel like-- The lazy moments in this script, I mean, if you were running a nuclear test facility, would you have your guys show up in the middle of the night and in the middle of nowhere? Right. I mean, in the middle of New Jersey Swamp, you're running a test at 2 a.m. Okay. Part of the physics test. I mean, the fact that the-- Excuse me, did you say nothing? You're right. Of Larry's running part of the Hulk origin. Yeah, I mean, there was nothing-- Hello. From what you can tell about Aunt May's life, she only visits Peter at 2 a.m. I mean, the times in the script where she has to visit Peter, they happen in the middle of the night. They do? And you're weirded out by it. I'm like, okay, she's making a-- Like, did she just get done with a booty call? Why is Aunt May out-- Why is Aunt May out at 4 a.m. visiting Peter, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's a lazy writing. You need to sandwich it between hitting Mary Jane at the jazz club and ending up at the church or, you know, you have to put it in that one night. Yeah, well, no matter what. In doing so, you force Aunt May to visit him at 2 a.m. Right, but either way, I mean, going back to the lazy writing, I mean, just the whole story in general, the movie to me, at least, in general, felt like Sam Raimi is tired of Spider-Man. He loves the character, and he loves everything he's done with it so far, but it seems like he is tired of doing this, and he wants to move on with his life. Because I know he had a kid during the production, and he's gotten to spend no time with his kid. And I think that he's just basically pumping down-- I love how you're just trying to analyze you with Raimi. No, but I'm saying the way it felt. The movie, to me, felt rushed. It felt really rushed. I don't feel that. I think that the problem is that, you know, there was a lot of talk about this being a trilogy, and there was a really strong effort to bring it all together. This whole idea, I mean, first of all, after the first two movies, they had to go with Harry, you know, and Harry going, becoming the goblin, and then they felt the need to tie it all together by creating a reason why there might even be a thought that MJ and Harry would be back together. There were some emotions there. By the way, they do that whole setup. They have the kiss. He then goes, "Twist turns on it right away." And they never deal with that again. They're not even a conversation. I mean, before Harry dies, you know, could he at least say to Peter? By the way, it was in MJ. You know, it didn't really happen. There was just nothing. There's no conversation. It's not even a resolved plot line. Okay? Yeah, the ties are all over. I think you had the best description of the movie. No, but he... It skits a phrenic. Yeah. The movie is legit, so. No, but it's got tone problems. We're getting... I thought that initially. They're a symbiote. Yeah. I thought that initially, but there's at some point where Peter kind of realizes that MJ, she wasn't being authentic when he broke up with her when he says to Harry, "What did you do to her?" And then so I think in that moment, seeing it the second time, I'm like, "Oh, okay." So that was kind of a resolve. I don't feel that he thought it was that she was not being authentic per se. I mean, I think, you know, going back and looking at it, maybe you could read that in just because you want to. Right. But I mean, I think we're making excuses. But the best part of that scene, though, where she's breaking... Where she's fake breaking up with Peter, is that she's saying something because the goblin is making her say this. Yeah. But at the same time, there are things that she's actually been feeling. But here's my problem. Do we truly have a sense that why he's making her? Is she afraid for her own life? I mean, he grabs her next thing we see her doing it. I mean, at least, you know, on Smallville right now. Okay, Lana married Lex Luthor because Lionel threatened Clark's life and you buy it. You buy that, you know, she believes that, okay, Lionel knows exactly what can hurt Clark. Yeah. Okay. And I mean, it seemed to me that it could have taken another couple of lines to establish something there. And they're not there. Right. I thought that whole scene was unbelievable because what stops Mary Jane from saying, okay, Harry just threatened me. Peter has spent the last six years putting assholes like this down. Right. I mean, two years in the story, but fine. And why wouldn't she just go to Peter and say, listen, creep show's freaking out over here. Take his ass. Exactly. Exactly. He already knows, you know, everyone's secret. And he just, yeah. And he not, not just what, like a few days before that had put him in the hospital. Right. Like, what is, I don't know what she thinks that he can hurt him. Let's talk about the venom thing because venom for me has always been a lame duck character. I've never, I've never, he's never struck a chord. And Raymie agrees with you and I think it's done. I think he's a lame duck character. I think he's a forced character and he's kind of, okay, Batman does the dark and it returns. Comics start to go dark. They introduced this dark aspect to the Spider-Man universe with Venom. Well, that's not actually what happened. Right. But it always seems to me like it was when comics started going edgy, Venom became a very prime character. Look, look, look, look. You know what I mean? Look, what happened was, you know, I mean, we all know the secret war is happening. Right. Really big deal about Spider-Man in a black costume. They came up with the symbiote thing. Right. Yeah, sure of it. Right. You know, although they actually launched the whole other comic, for Spider-Man, they launched a lot of Spider-Man off of the final confrontation it was supposed to be with the costume. And it was meant to be the final confrontation. They fight in the church. They have old church bell thing. That happens. There's no Eddie Brock there. Right. Eddie Brock was a character that was introduced out of the Sin Eater storyline that Peter David had written with the death of Jean DeWolf. And he was a disgraced character and they walked away from it for a while. Okay? And David Michilini, who was a fantastic Spider-Man writer, wrote a character for a long, long time, he just had kind of teased it when I was Spider-Man, I'm 24 over this idea of someone pushed Peter into, you know, an oncoming train and the Spider-Man didn't go off. And again, they step away for a while. And when he came up with the character, I understand what you're saying, this idea of someone dark, but it has nothing to do with dark night returns and all that. I mean, it's actually, it's several years later. You know, it was kind of this interesting dark idea, the symbiote thing. I mean, honestly, it's McFarlane kind of copied this whole symbol thing to spawn. You know, visually it was amazing, you know, I mean McFarlane went to town and Venom has his places. The fact that they rush through Venom and then they just kill him out right so easily, that was my big problem. You know, I understand what you're saying about it just being maybe overly dark, but they really develop it because, I mean, the other doesn't even really have a true consciousness. And that's what gets interesting about Venom, that there really is something going on there. It's really that crazed. By the way, as much as I love the effects and all that, explain to me, A, why Tophra's actual teeth get all fucking weird because, you know, I get that Venom has the top, right? But Eddie Brock should, yeah. Well, another thing, you know, I know a lot of people, a lot of us at a purist, we sit all right. The great idea about Venom was that when the scene here goes on and he has Spider-Man's powers, but Eddie Brock is this big bodybuilder, and he wasn't always, but he starts doing that because it makes him that much stronger, so he's clearly outclassed the Spider-Man strength. Right. You know? And yet here, to be true to it visually, once Eddie has the symbiote, he gets really big, although, don't know why, he didn't make Peter any bigger, although actually having said that. No, if it enhances your evil inner self, could that be represented physically? Sure, but that's also speaking from the right. Another thing is that I saw this with a family yesterday, again, in the IMAX. Not yours. No, I just, I walked, I leeched onto a family where they were all showering, and I followed them to a theater, and no, I saw this with my friend's family, my friend Jason graduated yesterday, and I saw middle school, actually, and it's my, yeah, it's my girlfriend, thank you, boy. Middle school. And so... Are you unclear about... What? That giggle is what doesn't. Yeah, you like my giggle? Yeah. Anyways, I saw it with a family, and basically, none of them, they were all asking me questions galore on their way out. We bring in the continuity of the comics, we understand who Venom is. We understand everything that's going on in this film, because we know the comic books really well. Yeah. That's what I call them. You speak what? I just call them space chis. Okay. Space chis. Wow. Okay, and so then... Go for it. But the thing is that they didn't really explain any of this very well, like you're saying, why is this black goo even here? Where did it come from? Like, I thought they at least made me explain that a little more. I don't have that much of a problem with that. Clearly, it's some kind of alien thing, you know. The idea... I mean, look, if I have Dr. Karkana's in there, great shout out to the Blizzard. Right. You know, he analyzes it, it reacts to emotion, that's kind of cool. But yeah, I mean, my problem is, is that we don't have a sense like the true character in comics that it actually has an alien intelligence. Right. And why is it that it goes from Peter, where it's on and whatever, and suddenly, once it gets on Eddie, it's really this massively evil thing. I guess it's because his aggression is supposed to be greater, you know, because he's inherently a bad guy. I mean, listen, you know, from the casting standpoint, I got that they were trying to go with someone who was very much like Peter, so it shouldn't have been that much bigger than Peter. Right. So there was more of a dark Spider-Man. Yeah. At the same time, you know, you want Venom to be bigger, but I don't really see why and how. Right. All right. So Peter's now this really bad guy who's not for himself. Let's talk about that. Okay. Let's talk about evil Peter. Wait, wait. I liked it. Wait. All right. All right. All right. I liked it. The, the, the, the Stan alive sequence. The. See, he once loved it. No, it's, it starts off interesting where he's just more confident and when I go, oh, look at him, it's kind of interesting, but then when he really takes it like over the top, I think what they're trying to go with there is that this is Peter's idea of being aggressive and all that. Exactly. And they're keeping him as a corn ball. That's part of what I don't like because I feel that Peter Parker grows up and matures a Spider-Man and the movies don't want him to. I mean, much more than the second or even the first, he's a goofy nerd. Right. But once again, once again, though, every man thing, you know, that's not the every man that Spider-Man is. That's, that's, that's the guy that Peter was initially. He's a nerd, but you know, the wise cracks and all that do become a part of his everyday life. But once again, we're also, we're all, we're so bringing in the continuity from the comics, but the movie verse, the film verse or whatever you want to call it, they actually, like this is a whole string of Spider-Man fans. For example, like you guys just saw in the footage and like we saw online opening night, there's a bunch of people who have never read a Spider-Man comic, yet are huge Spider-Man fans. Yes. And so what they're doing is they're bringing in this whole other universe in which they're creating. Yeah, it's essentially kind of the nature of the character of Peter Parker, but it's not the exact same Peter Parker. Do you like the film now? And we can't exactly, I know John and I, we didn't say anything. Having seen it twice, do you, do you like the movie more now? I liked the movie more coming out of it the second time, but I still... I agree. I agreed. I hate to see it a second time. I think you really need to see it twice. I think it's a barely flawed movie. Definitely. But having seen it again, I start to understand it a little more for what it is. Exactly. I'm very happy to possibly see a Spider-Man 4. I don't think this is a franchise killer like... But I would think we need it, we, I think we need a new team though, if we were to get anything, we need it in time. I don't even want Sam Raimi on this. How dare you. I'm done with saying that. No, I don't feel that because I have to say that, and for all the negatives I'm saying, I'm going to say I still love the movie because it's the best fucking action scene. The action sequences were definitely the best parts about this movie. In this movie, that was the equivalent of the subway train sequence in the second film. First of all, you just really think that there was one that was nearly that good? I like to... Go ahead. No, you know what the problem with this movie is? And it's true of the actors scenes as well as the movie itself is it doesn't resonate emotionally. All right, I'm going to say something right now. Right, right. All right, and it's going to show me, it's going to show my sense of side. But both of the first two Spider-Man films, I get emotionally involved in this. No, I did it first one. I think everyone on this couch agrees with me. No, at the end of the first one when he's walking away from Mary Jane, you know, after the funeral. That's amazing. And it's like, I just, I'm upset. There's a subtle moment that a lot of people miss at the end of Spider-Man 2. Let's go get him Tiger and he swings off and then Raimi brings the camera back to Mary Jane and she's melancholy. Yeah, that's amazing. She realizes, look at what her life is. And you know what? Play up on that and play up on her jealousies, okay, about... You could have done her having issues with Peter and Spider-Man, but just her jealousy of him not being there. You didn't have to make him so self-possessed, look, I'm so famous. Right. Okay? I appreciate it. That's the thing though. He used to be a huge geek. It's very expositional, right? It is. And going back to the filmverse argument, like that really, the Peter Parker in the movies has been such a geek and the public has been against him, you know, Joan Jameson has always been trying to do it, but finally, everything's going right for him. I think they really sort of overdo it at the beginning of the film. Everything's peachy, fucking keen, the entire beginning of the movie. I'd be like that. Yeah. And it's kind of... The point of that is to set up the dichotomy between him and Mary Jane. Right, of course. And he's why he would be so full of himself. Yeah, no, of course, but I'm saying that he, finally, everything's going right for him. So I think just like, I would at least, this is why I connect so well to Peter Parker in this movie is... I knew one is ass. Yeah. Is the emo hairdo? Is the emo hairdo. Look at his hair. And actually, when we went in, if you guys saw the footage, I was wearing the exact same thing that he's wearing when he turns evil. This is ridiculous. Anyways, the thing that I bring in is that if I had that much... He would go like this, girls. If I had that much fame and that much everything going, I do think that, theoretically, I would get like, you would appreciate it to the point where if you've never had anything like that before and you've always been hated and the one thing, the one thankless job that you do finally has a thank, it's like... But it sounds to me and it occurs to that point. That's great. Well no, and that's just it. No, I agree with you that his reaction might be understandable. The point is that they went that way at all. That's my issue. If I don't have an issue with that Peter Parker would react, look at all the fame I'm having and get a little self-possessed, it's not true to the comic and I'm not saying a film has to be, but there are other ways to do it. I think in true form of the comic, Mary Jane has had issues with Emma Spider-Man and her having her own life and him not paying attention. That's what's gone on in the comic before and that could have worked just fine. The fact that she needs someone, I mean, I actually felt it was set up. Can you put her first? And no, you know what? It could have just been the typical, the true to the comic idea that his sense of responsibility, he has to be out there fighting criminals and everyone hates him for it. Everything is so negative. At the same time, she could not be okay with that and that could cause problems and he could not be there for her because he's all fighting people. That would have worked fine. But no, here, I almost felt like they were kind of catering to women that might be in the audience by saying, "Oh, here's my boyfriend who's self-possessed and he's being a dick." Right, no, they definitely are. They play that up a lot in the movie. I mean, bringing it back to the entire, to the entire movie in general, though. My biggest problem with it is that once again, it felt very rushed. The third act, the third where, you know, Sandman and Venom team up and everything, you know, they make this whole huge thing of this kind of society. The reason dramatic change comes at the prompting of his weird ass fucking... Yeah. I'm sorry. That was Bill Paxton's dad, right? Is he dead? Bill Paxton's dad? Yeah. No. Okay. I thought he was dead for some reason. Is an actor? Yes. His career should be over. Hold on. But... And that was a really, really lame scene, but anyways, it seems like they're like, "Alright, we really need to tie this all together. We have no idea how. Let's just throw in a ridiculous ending scene, like an abandoned warehouse scene." You know, just one of those culminating, "Everything is going to come together." But the thing is that they even had the newscaster saying, "And just in the nick of time, she was so freaking hot. She was really hot." But she was ridiculous. She was ridiculous. Sure. But she was like... I wonder if you shut her mouth. Just in the nick of time, right when you thought that everything... It's like what Ben Funnelfish done said and he goes, "This movie was like a hot chick." She's amazing to look at, but you just want her to shut her mouth. Yeah. You know? Definitely. We're having some dog problems. Keep them from coming out. Sorry, guys. Anyways. He just wants to bark at the door. It came out of nowhere. It came out of nowhere. And they said, "He's going to save the day as if coming out of nowhere." It's sincerely like they just squeeze it in. They just squeeze that in. They're like, "Okay. We need to do this somehow. This is how we're going to do it." And like even the opening where you have is just like, "This is all seen. I mean, why? Why a huge Venom spider web like caught... There's a taxi caught? Why would they keep her in the taxi?" Like, why would they... I mean, there's just so many things wrong with this movie because it seems so rushed, but the thing is that I grew up with Spider-Man. I love Spider-Man, and I can't help but just have that kid in me come out during the action sequences. Those are a lot more coming out next, sitting next to me. And then so... Fucking creep. Oh my God. Let's talk. Let's talk about the best thing in the movie, which was probably the most extraneous thing in the movie. Oh my God. It was by far the best. If you're not... If you're not... Why does Howard comes on screen for the first time? Oh. You're done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm been done. Yeah. I sincerely... I'm then on. Mary Jane just looks like a decrepit hag. Well, no. She looks a little... She looks more homie. She looks more homie. She looks like the difference between like a girl coming, like to your door all dressed up and then your girlfriend on the couch. I mean, they're still both hot, but in different ways, you're like, "Yeah, let me get out the door for a little while." Oh my God. I think I said this when... She looked amazing. She looked amazing. And the coolest part is that she was expecting her to be the Tard Mute from the Shyamalan movie. Because, dude, that's all I know her as is the Tard Mute. But have you noticed Blind? But you know what? Girl from the Shyamalan movie. You know what's kind of weird though? She's amazing in this. Yeah, she's not. Fuck, does she look like? She looks different in all three movies that she has read here. No, she looks like Ron Howard, but I'm saying like she looks like a... Don't do that. Dude. She's a balding... She's a balding, eared man, but she's really... I enjoy that, yes. You know, the handles. But you... What the fuck? No, but sincerely though, Bryce Ellis Howard is one of the reasons to watch this movie. She's not just standard, you know, amazing supermodel hot, she's like kind of thick. She does nothing in the movie. Yeah, no. She didn't even need to be in the movie. But she kind of walks through. I mean, she has her. I mean, we're not even gonna talk about the contrivance that she's Peter's laugh partner and also the girl he saves, and she's the police chief's daughter, which is true to the comic. Right. You know. And that was great casting for Captain Stacey. And now here's the thing. They're extraneous roles. And for all the complaints, like, you know, I gotta say, Gilmore, you said that it seems like Sam Raimi is tired of Spiderman. I don't agree with you because there's a lot of efforts, there's a lot of subtle things that are nods to comics. Okay, I mean, for instance, when Spidey first comes and saves Gwen Stacey, and you have that shot of Captain Stacey down on the ground and, you know, things are falling off the building, it's a total nod to how Captain Stacey's gone. Stacey is supposed to die. I was surprised that nobody died, that both of the Stacey's are still alive. Yeah. They got it. They're signed for a couple more movies, so... Oh, my God, really? Yeah. Well, I wouldn't mind seeing Bryce. I wouldn't mind seeing another Spiderman. And don't waste Cromwell, you know, bringing back in and making one more movie. Are you opening? Exactly. No, no, I'm just gonna play you. I'm sorry, I'm gonna talk over you. But I can't. You know, to cast James Cromwell as Captain Stacey, and you know, it just makes me think about the way they could have gone with this movie. You know, they could have had it really be a hunt for Spiderman, you know, even in the Black costume, let him be hunted, you know. Let people... Some people hate him. Yeah, I think that, you know, let it be that at the beginning people are unsure because the bugle's still running the smear campaign, and then he goes black and they really don't like him, and let Captain Stacey know better. That would have been a better arc than showing the problem with where Peter goes in figuring out that the symbiotes are hurting him, is that he does it as Peter. He hits Mary Jane. Sure, we got that beat, but we also have, how dare you. But we also have... We also have... Oh my God. We also have... We also have... Contoting domestic abuse. No. We also have Peter exploding Harry's face. We also have... He did that. That was fun. Right. Well, we have Peter doing a lot of bad things as Peter. The Spider-Man in the black suit, he doesn't really do too many bad things. We needed to see that. He does the bad thing, though. He thinks he does the bad thing. He thinks he killed Sandman, and then he's proud of it, and then he doesn't realize that he's finally killed so when Ant Man says Spider-Man doesn't kill people, Spider-Man doesn't kill people. You know the photos that are showing at the Daily Bugle where it shows him in the black suit doing bad things, I wish we would have seen those scenes of him kind of out of control and at the... I don't remember that at all. I don't think that was something. There's a scene where they show photos to J. Jonah Jameson. He's picking up, you know, Robert Robertson, he's picking up cars, he's doing all these scenes as a black suit in the black suit. I wish we would have seen... We could have done more of him enraged and careless. Right. Definitely. We could have seen that more. I think the real... You're absolutely killing crooks. Then I think the realization would have been... It would have said more about what the suit does. And speaking of... Definitely. All right. I'm sorry, but the idea that Eddie Brock, you know, completely doctor photos and... Oh, only a bad Peter Parker would turn him in. I'm sorry. The guy deserved to be turned in. What's the bad about that? The guy deserved to be turned in, but a regular Peter Parker, I think, would have been slightly more of a doormat and would have let him have his thing and eventually got in there. But the problem with that is the message to the audience isn't that either the message is, "Oh, only bad people would actually stand up for themselves." Okay. Exactly. But the thing is that he's not supposed to be bad, he's supposed to be an altered version of himself that brings out the most aggressive qualities of him. And then so he would have done it in, I think, more time, but in this instance he does it. One of your big concerns going into the movie, Ian, was the revisionist stuff about the Sandman having killed us all back. Hate that. Do you still hate it? Have you seen the movie? You didn't think it worked at all. I didn't think it worked because... Again, this is trying to bring a certain kind of person and personal investment in the character and what's going on is trying to tie it all together as a trilogy. And I don't think it's necessary. And I can't stand the, "Oh, I forgive you, whiny, let's all cry and be friends, kumbaya moment." And then Sandman flies away. Yeah. I wanted him to form a happy face floating away and we get him and go, "Yes." But did you think he did a great job though? Thomas Hayden, Thomas Hayden. He did as well as he could have. He was absolutely wonderful. He was the only person who was perfect at Sandman. He was perfect casting. It looked great. And again, the effects. Wait. The effects were amazing. Yeah. They were. I mean, it's unbelievable. I think they're going to win that Oscar. I think they're going to win the Oscar for the scene where Sandman is realizing what he is and they just have that sand flowing and the score is actually beautiful in that part. And I'm thinking back to the abyss when we first saw James Caron play with that water technology and all that, you know, and I mean, yeah, that was 20 years ago. But wow, who would have thought, you know, Ganny did in T2, but this is taking it so beyond that. Yeah. It's gorgeous. It's not so far away from that stuff. Oh. It's just the level of it. It really is. It is. He's a man of sand. Definitely. But if I look fake at all. One other thing that bothered me about this film other than the script was Danny Elfman didn't do it. He brought back a lot of the Danny Elfman themes in which Danny Elfman, like if you see the credits, like all these songs are by Danny Elfman, but these are all when Danny Elfman wrote the score for the last two Spider-Man movies, he tied a certain theme to each character as a lot of composers do. But they reused those themes for every single character. And the only new theme that we really had was the beautiful Sandman sequence, but the ridiculous like Venom or Evil Peter song that was all this guy had to bring the table and it's what distracted me and it's part of what didn't make me like I was distracted and irked by it. I thought I'm like, wow, Danny Elfman could have done something so much better with those dark moments. I mean, I thought a lot of it was just like, God, just get rid of that theme. We don't need to hear that theme 20 times. It's an interesting point. I think one thing that most critics are complaining about is there's a lot going on. I have friends who are big fans who walked in right away and went, oh, three villains in one movie, it's going to be a problem. And here it was. As a comic fan, you know, I read several Spider-Man comics a month. Sinister Six are staple and Spider-Man universe, like, I don't think that was the problem. No, no, no. Here's the thing. When you look at the movie and they almost had to bring them together because otherwise there's no point. It's almost like, yeah, you're reading several different comics a month where there's different things going on. And at the moment, I'm forgiving this a little bit where I'm going. If the movie is just a slice of his life and this is what's going on and it's fine. But that's the problem. It's either choose that or choose to make it tight, but it's half ass. It's at one moment. It's just a slice of his life. And then we have to bring it together because this has to have some overreaching arc. You know, it can't decide what to do or at the very least when it does bring it together. I don't buy it. Right. I mean, point of fact, what we were just talking about about that scene at the end, it's what he has to forgive him, it was even it was only necessary that he be involved in killing his uncle just so that there's an emotional resonance to it. And look, that's the thing. You know, that's what script writing is supposed to be. The character is supposed to develop, it's supposed to have an arc. Right. Definitely. But I mean, and you are because it's a movie. It's not a comic book. A comic book can go on forever. Just kind of like this conversation. But there's also, I mean, the movies that really do need to be cohesive and I don't think they did a good job with this. And I think that's because even though comics do have a lot of villains at the same time, you can squeeze in as much as you want because you could always just extend, you could extend things into years. Right. Yeah. And so, and so what, definitely. But just to bring it back, just the entire movie, I would say it's worth seeing. It's a great movie in that it has the best action sequences out of any Spider-Man movie or any superhero movie actually that I've ever seen. And just as far as action sequel, just as far as actual action, actually, you know what, Ben Dun, Ben Dun just, no, Ben Dun just, it is, I just changed my mind. Ben Dun just changed my mind. The Blade series has amazing action sequences. You know why? Because they're very 90s. They're not all CG. They have stunts. Yeah. They have a lot of stunts. And that's why my favorite fight sequence in this was when Peter and Harry were fighting with, along with the jazz music. But it was one of the lamest sequences in the movie, in my opinion. I loved it. Why did you not like it? When they're fighting in the beginning? In the beginning? In the mansion. I imagine, no, I didn't like it. I was a joke. I loved it. In the beginning? It's fine. It's fine. We've had this beat a million times already. I like that because it was a gritty fight. Yeah. It was a gritty fight. And there was minimal CG. And it was fine. Yeah. Yeah. I just figured completely. First of all. Your breath. Again, no, excuse me. It was clear in the movie that Tobagoir has not been working out like he used to. They're shocked when, you know, he's beat up and he's on the ground. And I was like, yeah, it's a body double because I believe that guy's Spider-Man. You know? And the problem with that scene is he's not in the costume and I just, I don't believe it. No. All right. Okay. Bring it back to one thing. The one thing I would have. And Pudgy. Yeah. The one thing I would have changed about this movie. Just overall. The company had kept what I wanted to see it. Is the company, I wouldn't have been to see it with John going, oh, she's so spoken odd. Every time Bryce Dallas Howard came on the screen. I was right there with him though. Oh, God damn. That's a reason to see that shit. Anyways. I would have had, I would have had, I would have had a good-- I can see the village. A lot of people have been saying this. I want a whole, they should have just made Venom a whole movie in of himself and that would have been enough. Either that or combine him. I think Sandman didn't belong in this film and would not belong in a film for a while. I do not care about the, I don't care about the character, I really never have and I really just kind of want, I would have much rather seen them bank on the character that they've been developing for the last two and now three fucking movies which is Dr. Kirk Connor's The Reptile. That is such-- Yeah. Sorry. The Lizard. How many times do we have books that you read? That's such an emotionally compelling story. Yeah, I would have liked to see the living story. It's such a great story that he has where he has to balance out wanting his limbs back and developing his science at the same time as trying to stay with his family but not endangering his family. That's such a great story. Yeah. And they've been developing it for two movies. Why not go into that? So, should we bring this to a close? We should bring this to a close. I think, good movie, see it has a lot of problems. If you're not a Spider-Man fan, you're probably not going to like it very much, at least not as much as the other two. It's very rushed. And though it's more of a raw thing, go ahead. Moving in. I think that, yes, see it, it's not the same level. The first just by moving is really, really great films and this is lacking as a film but it's a lot of fun anyway. For all of its flaws, it's still fun. The action is really great. Well, I agree with you guys, Vijay, VJ says more than we ever, and that's like I said, if you're not a Spider-Man fan. Vijay will never get over the fact that you went to see Silent Hill twice in the theater. Wow. Okay. That will always paint your reviews and you know it. Taint. All right, moving on. So, so Gilmore, go ahead and drop us the news. Gilmore was nice enough to go on geekscape.net. My internet's been down, which has been a problem with getting episodes up for you guys and I apologize, we're streamlining the site, I brought in a new coder, I have a new producer for the site, the site's been in some changes. It's in an interim period. But, let me tell you, I would have given up a long time ago, and I've been for this guy right here. And that guy right there, this guy right here, and Ian's been here, and the hope that Ian would be back. I said, you know what, we can't give it up. Ian's got to come back. Yeah, we're going to keep going. It's an interim period and it's going to be awesome. Pretty soon it's going to be even better than us. Well, I'm excited. All right, I'll talk about the site on the site. Yeah, all right. So, anyways, Liv Tyler has just joined the cast of The Incredible Hulk. What do you think of that? She's of course going to be Betty. What do you think? She's a Betty. She's a Betty. Is she more of a Betty than Jennifer Connolly? Jennifer Connolly was. You know, it's not about more or less, it's about, you know... What they're going to do with the movie, basically, I think. Yeah. No, no, thanks. Personally, I always had a bigger crush on Jennifer Connolly, yeah, but you know what, the movie's being recast, I'm perfectly fond of Liv Tyler and the role, Edward Norton. They nailed it. Amazing. They nailed it. It's so incredible that they've got coming out so well. Yeah. Yeah. The films that they're handling and have. I can't wait for these movies. Hopefully. It's great. Hopefully. I can't believe they can't see any of them, so I don't know yet. Right. So far, they sound like they might be good. The casting, they're knocking it out of the park. They really are. They really are. The Iron Man. The Iron Man looks great. Yeah. Iron Man looks great. That's another bit of news, I think. Yeah. The Iron Man costume. We finally saw the Iron Man costume. No, this is... Awesome. It looks amazing. This is Rick Baker's costume, right? Rick Baker is doing the costumey on this. Uh, I remember, I don't remember exactly who it was, but I remember reading something that... No, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't. It was just one guy. It wasn't just one guy. I heard that no one is taking... No one person's taking credit for the design of the costume. Yeah, the costume, that amazing plan of the apes' costume being that never made it anywhere because this is where it was terrible. Okay. Rick Baker from London. Is there a soul in there? Is there a soul in there? But yeah, the costume looks great. There's footage online of... Then you have to. The footage is walking around. Incredible. Yeah. It looks good. And it's perfect. I mean, people were talking about what the Iron Man suit should look like. They were talking on the forums, and I was like, "Okay, it should look like this, this, and this." Yeah. A mixture of these three different suits nailed it. Done. You even have the chest plate that you still have the heart monitoring chest plate from when you saw the first shot of Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man and the little welding thing. Yeah, his little... His little... I'm a huge man. You want to see more of the stuff, or do you just want to be like, "Okay, you guys are on the right path. I'm confident. Let's cap it until the movie comes out." I'm kind of getting burnt out. I'm really kind of getting burnt out on the comic book movie rumors, on the comic book movie, stuff in general. It's just like... There's so much Rodriguez on the show, and he was talking about how much it never used to be like this. You used to just go and see the movie once it came out. And that's what... And that we kind of missed. Do you agree? I agree with him, and I agree with me that I missed going to a movie, seeing a trailer, and then the trailer actually being exciting. Well, my thing is... I don't expect it. Look, you know why... So what do I do when we run a geek news site? We're basically... It's hard. No, no. Yeah, no. It is hard to fight. You're fine. Don't go to geekscape.net. It'll ruin the movie. I think a lot of us... I don't overly look for spoilers, but I can't help myself to read them when they're right there. And what's happening... I don't really review this. I didn't read any of this by the three. I really didn't make it inversion. Yeah. Yeah. You read them once, dude. Supple. Keep going. No. What the fuck? All right, moving on. Go for it, buddy. Talk about your own personal show. No, no. Go for this. It's like what you do. Oh, okay. Let's do Frank Miller first, and then we'll talk about TV then. Sounds fucking good. So first, just really quick, Frank Miller's Ronin is being made into a movie. That's what I asked you about. Awesome. So can I say it right now? But the director is, I think, what's his name? Sylvan? I don't know. You write chicken scraps. I do write chicken scraps. But I think it's called Sylvan White, and he's the masterful director that's brought us close to nothing, and then I'll always know what you did last summer. You know what? I thought he was also the guy who did one of his-- Is he pretty in pink? No. I heard someone. Who was it? Pretty in pink. It was Charlie Miller. What's wrong with you? No, no, no, no. There was some guy that might be the writer that wrote-- Dude. I mean, you're half a girl. How do you not know? I'm half a girl. All right. But anyways, Ronin movie. How would you feel about it? Well, the funny thing is I know what you're confused is probably because you have the biggest porn collection possible, and you've got to do the pretty in stink. All of the titles of any movie are just swimming around. If you were just grabs, you'd just grab shit from all of them. But his movie going knowledge is just a stew. I thought it was a skateboard, though. Yeah. Well, but that's pretty in stink. His movie going knowledge has just been destroyed by how much punny, titled porn he's got. Those are the funnest to come up with, though. If you're just at a movie theater on your board, and you just look at the screen and you just think of a bunch of porn titles, if you've never done that, you're bored in line. I'm alone in the world. So this dude, I had actually heard that he directed one of these stomp the yard type movies. He did do stomp the yard. Is that his thing? Stomp the yard. That's his thing. Stomp the yard. And I'll always know what you did last summer. Okay. So that was the deal. Have you seen any-- I know what you did last summer? I saw the first one. I saw the second one with her in the tanning booth. Okay. But I never saw any other ones after that. What would a good porn pun be for-- I know what you did last summer. I know who you did last summer. Oh, nice. So go and keep that in the forum and start a whole fucking thread on punny stuff, punny porn. No, no, we have not done this. So there we go. There we go. So prank porn times. Guys, and honestly, I'm telling you guys right now, I've never read it. You never read. I know what it's about. Sure. You never read Ronin? No. Well, fucking read Ronin. Oh, well. You know, because I-- Well, I'll also get back and ask the plastic one of these guys. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. He got back to it. He is the answer to seven seasons. How proud of me are you? Hold on. How proud of me are you? I watched the entire third season one day. That's good. Rich. Hardin. It was like worse. Same for humanity. I'm not proud of you. I think you're a fucking loser. Well, speaking for our audience, thank you guys. I mean, thank you. No, but see, now I can't-- You're enjoying the rest of us. Now I can watch it week to week. It's not that. No, yeah. It's like 40 minutes without commercials. Oh, okay. So it's only 20 hours. No, it was like a good 16-year-old man. I don't do math. Are you kidding? Take a third away from 22. Wait, it's like 14 or-- Since we're talking about TV, hey, John, ear muffs, ear muffs for a second? Since we're talking about TV, who do you think that last silon is? Oh, fuck this. I'm not talking about it. He's doing ear muffs. Oh, are you doing ear muffs? Okay. Really quiet. Really quiet. Lean to the mic. No, you know, we don't need to do it now. What can I come up with? One word. One word. Oh, fuck. One word. No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. We're done. We're done. It's you're wrong. Anyways. And also in TV news, Gilmore Girls. Yeah. Which is your show. Which is my show. It was named after you. It was named after me. Because you are a girl. I have not gunged. Once again dating me. Once again aging me. Yeah, I know it's dating. Thank you very much. I love how much abuse I did. I just love it. Eat it up like a sponge. That was a surprise. God started it. That was too good. Anyways. The first time I saw that was we got free planners in my middle school. In eighth grade. Holy shit. That's how young I am. And I remember seeing on the top they had the little W. They were sponsored by the W.B. And the W.B. had little things. And you liked them with Frog. No. And one of them was Gilmore Girls. One of them was Gilmore Girls. From the network that brought you brothers from outer space. Michigan Jay Frog said it's good. My name I have to watch. But also I saw Gilmore Girls. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm like Gilmore Girls. Fuck. This is going to suck. This is going to suck. I hope this show gets canceled immediately. And it's actually had a good run. And then you've seen every episode. I've seen every episode. I'm a TV champion. I can't stand the way those bitches talk. I can't stand the main mom. She's such a bitch. You know what? I like them as actors. I just don't like the dialogue. I don't like the mom. I don't like the mom as an actor. It drives me crazy. She's like I was on Gilmore Girls. I was on Gilmore Girls as an extra once. Oh wow. I got made fun of three times on the way inside. Because you have to show them your idea when you're going on to the lot. They're like Brian Gilmore. Oh. What are you here for? Oh really? Funny. And even the PA is like Brian Gilmore. Oh look. We have our own little Gilmore girl here. The PA who was signing people up when I went on Gilmore Girls. I want that PA. If that PA is out there. Come on there. That's awesome. Start up a boxing match. It was so ridiculous. Anyways. Anyways. The show full of great good. She got someone kicked off the show. She got someone kicked off the show for being at the craft service table at the same time she was. All right. So she's a bitch. But she's a bitch. No yeah she's hot. She's one of those like I want to hate fuckers. I just want to fuckers. I don't even need to break hands. No more. I think hate fucking is called rape. Thank you. Thank you. No but like the Bush twins. This is what makes you creepy. Dude. You take something that everybody understands as unacceptable socially. Do we really have to sympathize him? Are there other things we do in a time? If you talk to John outside the show he's a million times worse. Get a clue. You wish. It's called rockin' the donkey. All right. Well you like y'all more afterwards. You love the show. You love the show. Yeah the show was really well written. It was really good pop culture reference for a while. Okay. It lost something when the Paladino's left. But you know incidentally the show wasn't cancelled. They couldn't cut a deal because you know the actresses wanted a ton of money. And it actually really sucks what they did. They let everyone think the whole crew thought they were coming back. They were going to do a shortened season 13 episodes. And then last minute the show had wrapped. Everyone thought it was a done deal and suddenly oh no. We offered them a lot of money but nah they're not going to do it. And people are just devastated. But you know the last names on the show are Gilmore and we know that Gilmore means they're fucking pusses. Right. So what are you going to do? Thank you. He's digging in there isn't he. So Ian let's talk about that. Let's talk about that days of future past episode from two weeks ago of Heroes. It wasn't it was this past week. I'm going to do ear mumps for this. I'll be right back. This is going to be after my days of episode. Right. It's not going to come. As of the airing of this it was two weeks ago. The days of future past episode of Heroes were joined by Ben Dunn because you loved this. Absolutely. That episode kicked ass and might lead to a lawsuit. Well okay first of all it's been it's been it's been said. It's the ideas of that are public domain. Right. Right. Right. I'm going to say now I love heroes so much. I have to say that I still have some criticisms. What would they be? Well they would be and they are that. Okay. So we have this notion of here's future hero and he goes back to the past. He goes back to you know in his present day reality Claire was killed by Siler. So when he first steps in he points Peter petroleum the direction of go save Claire. Everyone knows save the cheerleader. That was what he did on the subway. Right. So he did that. So that happened and the idea is that it was present in what was his present. Siler had the regenerative abilities. So now he does that and we're now in his few in his present in the future when he comes back from that. Nothing has changed. And yet apparently we're dealing with a future in which Claire did live so apparently since he's out of time stream it didn't affect him. But everything else is the same. Well already this isn't making sense. We see Peter Petreli with a scar which we know he shouldn't have if he had Claire's abilities. Makes sense he'd have a scar and that future hero remembers him with a scar because Claire had died they had never met. But fuck in my mind right now. No that's exactly I agree. But I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm straining. And then you had the whole thing with the ending guy. It's a rush. It was like oh I remember that there was that Peter mentioned that some guy told him to save the cheerleader save the world on the subway. Wait because all reality changed because she did live. And the idea here is that I think the idea is that because then present hero came forward and didn't go back. So all the things he would have done or will do going back haven't happened because he's now outside of the time stream. Okay so Claire lived. So Rush will remember that. But Peter Petreli shouldn't have the scar I would think. Okay, it's never really been clear. You know in the house. So that's not really clear that if you go and read the interactive novel they reference that. Okay he goes online and reads the interaction. Well I have as well but I haven't seen I haven't read lately. Oh it's good stuff. It's good stuff. Oh we're getting our asses kicked. So that being said I thought the episode kicked ass. It's a lot of fun. It's great. I don't think we're going to see that future again because it no longer has relevance. Obviously the big deal what everyone really needs to understand is save the cheerleader save the world. It's not true because future hero was proceeding from a wrong premise. That little string theory he had about cutting the string is all presupposes it's always one that blows up and he's not. But so excited for the other episode. So buddy I mean the show is wonderful. This is basically been a 100% Spider-Man 3 episode. Pretty much. No tag. We're not going to get to video games. We're not going to get to comics. We're barely going to get to comics. So let's talk about what we're not going to get to. Right. Right. But I kind of want to do since it's a Spider-Man week just we're all huge Spidey fans. This is why we're here. This is why we're discussing Spidey 3. What are your favorite Spider-Man stories? The best ones ever. Just ones that have spoken to you. They don't have to be like these ridiculously great ones. It's just what do you like? Why don't you turn it off? Okay. I guess I'll start us off. It's a toss-up for me. He had it prepared. Yeah. I mean I didn't have it prepared. I've just been thinking. I've talked about this with someone. I forgot who it was. I think it was either a thread on the geekscape.net/forms or I talked about it with Ben. I'm waiting for him to say the clown saga. Yeah. And it was either Craven's last part. Right. Or actually Spider-Man Blue by Jeff Loeb. Really? And yeah, Spider-Man Blue. I actually... Not because it's bad. It's really good. Yeah. It's not like a class Spider-Man story. But it made me cry. It really made me cry. And if I can tell you... It made me blue. It made me blue. I mean he does all that type of stuff. Like Daredevil Yellow, Hulk Grey, where he's going back. Yeah. It's a Jeff Loeb. Tim sale team. Right. Definitely. I love Spider-Man Blue and I think everyone should pick up Spider-Man Blue because it's amazing. It's great. No pun intended because I really do think that, I mean, it really spoke to me because it's Spider-Man looking back on his relationship with Gwen Stacy. It's on the... It's I think on their anniversary or on the anniversary over death. And it starts out on the bridge. And it's him speaking in an attic into a tape recorder as if he's talking to Gwen. Manhattan Bridge was in the movie when... Right. That was the first film. So he's talking into a tape recorder, basically going through their entire relationship. Kind of creepy. And it... Well no, he misses someone and he's gone through death and as you know Jeff Loeb lost his son. Right. And so him writing about death I think is more poignant than almost anyone in comics right now writing about death the way he dies. But... It's great. But hold on. And so... And so... Yeah, his son hadn't died when he wrote that. Okay, but nonetheless... He's fallen. But nonetheless which love is writing right now is knowing about loss from science death. Right, and apparently he had a great grasp on it from the beginning. Because basically he's going through this story where Gwen Stacy is... She was Peter's first love. She was Peter's like... Imagine that hot girl in high school who you always kind of wanted and always kind of like... You were complete... I was kind of a dork. And I'm sure a bunch of you guys could relate. But imagine that girl actually going for you. Imagine everything going well for you. Then getting those spider powers and then you being completely fine. You know that Gwen Stacy and Peter... And then all of a sudden... No he doesn't. And then all of a sudden... And then all of a sudden... She dies and it's your fault. And then you lose that. And it's just something that it's just like... It's something that we've always wanted and he loses it. Alright, Tate Peter. Let's move on to Ian. Well I mean speaking of that for me... Amazing Spider-1, 21, and 122 is always resonated. When I was a kid, you know a little bit before Gilmore was born... You know comics used to do something where they would reference certain issues. And even when you didn't have it and I had to say I would have gone back and I bought them. But you always knew Amazing Spider-1, 21, and 123. I had a lot of death at Gwen Stacy. 122 was the death of the green goblin afterwards. Those stories are so powerful. They're so definitive. Things can't go right. If you look back at all those early goblin stories, they're all great. Amazing Spider-1, 39, and 40. When the goblin first discovers who Peter is and he hasn't tied up and it's that amazing cover where... Peter's wrapped up right in the costume. That stuff is blown around. Yeah, that's so awesome. Well for my favorites and all honesty... They're not so much the written story is just the images. And my favorite image is the one where Peter's getting crushed under the weight. And he has to get out in order to save Aunt May. Yeah, I think that's amazing Spider-1, 32, or 33. And it's just... Fighting the master plan who ended up being Doc Octopus. Perfect image. Yeah, that story is just amazing. And of course the one that they replicated in Spider-Man 2 where he throws the Spider-Man suit in the trash. Spider-Man no more from issue 50. Those two images for me are the Spidey images. They're the epitome of what the character is about. The epitome of what we feel every day with the... Life is hard. Responsibility is hard. Growing up is hard. But you push through it in the hope that you're making it a better world. That's what this character is about. That's what this episode is about because our audience is pushed through it and the hope that our following episode will be better. Which will be from New York City, the home of Spider-Man. And that'll be next episode. And yeah, the images are my favorite. You know, I always love seeing Spidey up against a giant opponent. You know, chasing the juggernaut through Manhattan. Another great story. Yeah. It's just one of those, "What the fuck? Fighting versus juggernaut?" Sure. Okay, that's what I love about comics. That's what I love about comics. Somebody versus somebody. You know, and in doing, you learn a little bit more about you and your world. Well, it's the idea that Spider-Man fights against impossible odds and he wins. And that, again, part of the problem with the movie is he should be getting his ass kicked and he wins anyway. Not because someone comes to the stage. Because that doesn't happen. There's that. This has been episode 21. A huge Spider-Man 3 episode. We'll see you guys next week in New York. Thank you Ian for coming on the show. Thank you Gilmore for continuing to be an asshole. Thank you to the amusement of others. If you're not amused, let us know on GeekScape.net and GeekScape.net forums. Start with voting. Should Gilmore be banned from the show or at least have a moratorium? Let us know and we will hold to it. Like that. That would be a great call. Like that Holocaust guy. That's right. Well, then I'm going to have them vote in like the death of Robin. Yeah. Should we kill you off or not? Oh, we have another crank down. We do have a hotline. He might be T on count. Here's the hotline. Here's the hotline. Call up and leave us a message. That's great. That's one good thing about you. See you guys next week. I love each one. Fuck you. Pizza shit. Are we still on?