Hey Leo hello again, Steven. How are you? I have figured out a great way for us to boost our numbers. Oh Joy Yeah, so I see a lot of podcasts doing this they all run these contests where if you answer a question or you say your favorite Movie and you email it in they select one and of course people win a prize But here's the thing that's interesting. The prizes are always just DVDs that people have around their house So I've realized that we could run a pretty lucrative as far as downloads are concerned contest But just give away the junk we already have It's like eBay but better exactly and we can just literally pick whatever we want I already wrote a question because I already think this is gonna be a great idea So what we could do is we could tell everybody just email us the answer to this question William Spanner played what imaginary instrument in the hit film witchcraft - I think your first mistake is hit film But I get where you're going It like to press is me so much that I didn't even have to look for his full name Might be the second worst part of that is that you know it to level you want to know what the third worst part is You knew exactly who it was when I said yeah That's a sad reality of my life that I'm probably gonna have to tell my therapist about But if you and Leo feel free to throw some things in here - if you can email us the answer to that question You win this old non-working window fan that has a fauci live sticker on it I have a broken Yeti microphone if you want that oh Decorate that sounds very good for your own podcasting efforts. Oh, I like that I have a whole stack of multi-color index cards from work. I never did Let me look around here. Hold on. What do I got? I got a lot of junk I've been trying to minimize I have an old Halloween mask of one of the kids from nightmare before Christmas You can have that oh I still have that photo frame on my wall that has no photos of me in it But has a beautiful mixed-race family in there perfect. Exactly your mixed-race family The family that people think actually live in my house an old Christmas tree stand. How about that? Oh? That's a good one vintage. It's metal with the feet and everything Yeah, how about all the red wine from the crystal lake from winery that I'm never gonna drink The bottles no the bottles. I'll send you the liquid We're gonna pour the wine into a different vessel. We're gonna send that to you. You'll have a wine Exactly. It'll say spoils of horror on it. It's just a bunch of Gatorade Sharpie All right, everybody speaking of which welcome to spoils of horror my name is Steven I'm Leo and this is episode number 133 good night mommy Excellent day for an exercise Oh Look at me It's all for you I'm our number one fan. I hope they are watching there see there see and they don't know Oh I'm just gonna cut to the chase and ask you directly now. Why are we watching this movie? I Fucked up is why? So let me tell you what happened I Had been really itching to cover something that had some teeth to it Because a lot of times when we cover harsher horror films It's been through our our Christmas special and so we've done You know cannibal holocaust and we've done the human centipede which neither one of those were movies that we like So I feel like we've kind of dogged on those films enough In fact, I think the only two movies that I can think of that are really harsh that we both like and have covered Where we both like Baskin and we both like 95% of high tension. That's true. That's true I don't know if we need alerts counts as a totally brutal film, but we love that one That is true. Yes, so I'll count that in there too because that is a pretty rough around the edges movie But I was feeling the vibe so I thought to myself Well, why not why don't we do good night mommy? I remember that being you know having an edge to it I remember that having some teeth to it Now I don't know if you know and I'm apologize. I'm gonna monologue for a second I don't know if you know the story behind the trailer of this film Where when this trailer came out everybody thought it was the scariest looking trailer They had seen it was like it like ran rampant over the internet and then everybody saw the movie and found out That yet again, it was a boring art film disguised as a really hardcore horror film They took the best ten scenes slapped him together for a trailer and then made us all suffer Yeah, and here's the thing I like art house horror films and I recognize that they do that sure that makes sense You're intelligent that way. Thank you. So I picked good night mommy because I did not realize how boring this film is And then I watched it and I went oh no this movie is not what I remember But I think that that is actually interesting in and of itself because good night mommy always does this to me This is not the first time I've seen it. This is not even like the fifth or sixth time I've seen it. I always remember this movie as better than I actually think it is And that is kind of interesting Yeah, cuz I'm never gonna remember this But I wonder if you could have some sort of equivalency. We don't have to discuss it now But I do think that there's something interesting and I think I figured out what it is why this movie sits in my head better than it actually is I Don't know I can't think of anything off top of my head that I can equate it to I know we've covered things in the past where We bring it to the show with fond memories and and gushing nostalgia and it turns out to be absolutely not that yep Well, this was only made in like 2014. So I can't say it has gushing nostalgia But I think we can have an interesting discussion around When a film is too tedious even for me and that's a tall order with your art house style So well done this film, I guess Good night mommy wins All right, you want to jump into it, let's do it After a sweet sounding lullaby twin brothers named Elias and Lucas chase each other through the woods Exploring and playing games They hear a car beeping a woman claiming to be their mother has returned home with her face covered in bandages She closes the shades on her windows. So no one can see inside Life at home is on The woman is attentive to Elias and dismissive of Lucas while playing games The twins collect bugs play video games and explore outside as the bandage woman enforces strict orders to keep the blinds closed Allow no one inside and make no noise in the house When a delivery man drops off enough groceries for the next year the twins get worried that something sinister is Mascorating as their mother. I'm intrigued that this movie Opens with an ending as a group of people sing a lullaby and then say good night to us The audience, which is perhaps the most artsy fartsy thing you have ever fucking shown me so far All I could think of is so the movie opens with this kind of like I don't know 1930s 40s 50s Whatever like Von Trapp style family that singing a lullaby I don't know what it's trying to do It's trying to set the themes of the movie But all I kept thinking to myself is if you're in a family with two parents and 30 kids And you're singing these songs as the Von Trapp's what if you're the only kid that sucks at singing? You have no tone I don't got rhythm That's just that's what a horrible fate to be like one of 25 Brothers and sisters and to sit there and everybody's like lollaby and good night You're the one that grew up to be the architect and right the house put together you're the smart one It's hard enough to get out of there anyway. Yeah So we are introduced to the two twins who are going to be kind of like the narrative focus of this film and They're going to be running around through the movie They play a lot. They're going to be outside in the forest You know, look at it things and collecting bugs and things like that like the cornfield Exactly and there is one thing that just really set me off from the start that This movie really has to focus in on these kids wearing Crocs I got to say it on the podcast because I don't think I have before there was a time in human history Not long ago when only children and mental patients would wear rubber shoes. Y'all need to stop it You know what I love Leo? You've said that before because I've I've made fun of Crocs before and you've said that before Good, I'll keep saying it We couldn't string together like a bunch of episodes We could just do like a week or we could do like a techno beat and you could say that over and over again Anyone of those people who like puts a podcast to music and makes a song out of it Oh, that'd be great. If they could do it. If they could do it to like an 80s like rock ballad We'll make it our we'll make it the theme song of our show That's how fucking take it. Oh god. I don't really want this anyway As these kids are robbing through the forest and the cornfields and everything else they end up at a lake Where one of them is floating on a raft? Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna dive too deep into it right now part of the pun, but it was at this moment I realized what the ending of this movie was. Yeah I'm not gonna go after anybody who didn't catch the surprise Because look we've all had movies where we caught a surprise and all of us have caught had had movies where we didn't catch the surprise This movie has two twists and Leo and I had a background conversation Where we decided that we were gonna tell the twists right off the bat So spoiler warning if you were planning on listening to an episode where we're going to literally talk about everything idiosyncratically as we have for 132 episodes before this but you didn't want to know what happens in good night mommy Yeah, that's not the case this time around Yeah, so there's just no way of really discussing this movie without getting into the twists And there are two big ones one that I think doesn't really work and one that I think actually works pretty well The first one is the one I don't think works which is that Lucas one of the two twins is actually dead and is just a hallucination by Elias So I figured this out the first time I watched this movie about 25 seconds into the film I had a suspicion the way the kids were carrying on as they were romping and playing and then when they got to the lake and One of them's floating on the laugh that part of me the raft calling the other one's name and all you see is bubbles in the water I'm like, okay, that bitch is dead. Yeah, so actually one thing I do like about this movie is I feel like we assume That the first five minutes watching these kids run around and play is current day And I actually think you could interpret that as that actually was like a year ago Sure and that you're actually watching Elias and Lucas play and then they very subtly hint That Lucas died But they don't actually show it because they don't want to reveal the surprise I actually like that if that interpretation is is true. I like that But what it leads to is the movie has to play this game with you where it has to Constantly get you to think that Lucas is still alive So it leads into this very awkward game that the movie plays throughout every single scene Especially when the mother is involved now by the way just for everybody. So this isn't confusing. The mother has no name She's literally called the mother. I'm just calling her mom throughout the film. Yeah exactly. I'm you might hear me say mother Sometimes the way I write her name in the script is gonna sound like mother from psycho, but whatever You know who we're talking about. Yes, so the mother character every time she addresses the twins They have to do it in this creative way So that it looks like she's addressing both of them But she's actually only talking to one of them so that when you go back on a second viewing you're like oh my god This movie's brilliant I thought she was talking to both of them But I can see in her dialogue that she's only talking to one of them But I think it just makes the movie feel very be labored and awkward The problem is they're trying to force this movie into some sort of weird twist Shyamalan plot thing They made a film that's a lot like someone wanted to remake 1972's the other while using the story arc of the sixth sense mm-hmm, and I See what they're doing. They're trying to hint at some sort of deep psychological thriller Experience with this movie in my opinion. They didn't hit it. I Actually agree with you and the second surprise which is basically what the movies actually about that it is not about somebody hiding as their mother But it's actually about something else. I think that surprises way better I think that is a more interesting surprise I think that that actually carries a better narrative through line I just think it's more interesting even though I wasn't shocked by it when I figured out that the Movie wasn't gonna be about what I thought it was gonna be about That I think is actually something that really works in this movie I like that, but I mean Jesus Christ like when she only makes supper for one of them I literally was like the other one's the other one's dead like the other one's dead and that's where they tipped their hand And this is maybe putting the car before the horse a little bit But my issue with the film one of my major issues with the film is that they spent the first 15 20 minutes of the movie Showing you very deliberately that one of these kids is dead They tip to their hand right away. So now you've got you've got two questions in this film three technically But two questions is this kid alive or dead they've already ruined that that's gone. Is this really their mom or not? Right, and then you that's the question now. We have to answer. We know the kids dead. Fuck that. He's gone. Okay, great He might as well have had X's over his eyes by the way So we know we've already answered that question cool now we got to deal with the mom question right and that's I I'm not thrilled with that and the way they handled it the way they answered it the way they executed it I don't think it landed and we can get to that later you and I can disagree that that's at least a little bit more interesting but But but even then I still kind of agree with you. So I think maybe so I'm not belaboring the point We think that the movie is gonna be about somebody being an imposter of the mom But what it actually ends up being about is this remaining boy torturing his mother that twist I love That twist I really like yeah We don't have to agree on that that's fine But that's the point that I'm making that this first twist just doesn't work for me. I like that twist I wish they had done it better. That's okay. Sure. I agree with you the twist about the kid being dead That's gone right off the shoot the twist about the mom. Yeah, I think that fell flat. It didn't work The other one the third thing I think that they had the opportunity to execute that better and they didn't quite get there But It's also plays out in a game scene early on there is a scene where they play like a person place or thing game Where you write a little post it who you are or what the thing is you put it on your forehead You know, we all saw this in Inglorious bastards and then Somebody has to guess that's your reference point for this game. I know so My family didn't play this game amazing, so They have this like really be labored scene that makes it so clear that just one of the kids is not actually present But all I kept thinking to myself is so when they were playing this game Elias and his mother Elias immediately says like per you know person plays her thing and she says, you know thing or whatever it is And then he starts going lighter book rock and I thought jesus fucking christ Like if you ask one question and now you are going to start listing off stuff. I am going to blow my brains out in an hour That's this is the opening to our show. He's literally looking around his room going clock table chair spoon What the fuck what can I look at? What am I guessing? And look there's kind of a neat thing that is happening here that i'll give the movie credit for which is that when it's her turn She is not able to guess what is actually on her head And it's because my interpretation is they actually wrote her own name up there And so it kind of like feeds the narrative that she can't figure out who she is It kind of makes the the kid feel like he is you know his mom is an imposter I do like that, but jesus christ like this is so like belabored and it takes so long And I thought to myself, you know You hear people talk today about like social media and playing on your phone And I look at this Game with post-its and guessing random objects and think to myself. Thank god nintendo was invented Bless your heart nintendo This game is right up there with barrel and hoop like Cup and stick Yes, right. It's right of all and stick and hoop. Yes. It's right up there with like Then like the person who blows on the bottle in a jug band like this is how exciting this is Oh, thank god they came up with like horrible things that now addict us and distract us So we have actually fun games to play And I think this is one of the interesting things about the film I say interesting because I don't want to keep going on about you know long stretches of nothing that this film has a lot of but They had the opportunity here To explore something a little deeper Which is how the family doesn't tend to communicate or connect with each other Maybe that happens since the death of the sun or maybe it was all long because it seems like they're the The movie indicates that they had a loving Happy family dynamic until the dad left and the sun died and da da da da da So now We get this kid let's assume during this game because I think this post-it said mama on it Yes, and she couldn't guess that she was their mother Right. So He at this point elias is already skeptical whether or not that's their mom Did she not tell them that she was going away that she was getting the surgery done? There was no communication happening like he should have known That this was a process and she was going to come home and look a little different elias is like the ultimate latchkey kid like She she sheltered she just gave him a key and said i'll be back in two weeks I've got to have some surgery done. I'm not going to tell you anything about it Yeah, the backstory on this doesn't make sense You have to more buy into the concept of like this feels like a dream kind of vibe As opposed to as opposed to like actually getting into the nitty gritty of Wouldn't she have explained to her own child that she was going and getting some kind of plastic surgery on her face You would think so that's all i'm saying you would think that that's a thing and then She doesn't or the film doesn't or the director doesn't or whatever that there's too many red herrings That the film is relying on misdirection too heavily because mom Comes slithering out of a dark corner once she gets home with her face totally covered in bandages She says that she just had a procedure And also the boys can't tell anyone they're not allowed to go into her bedroom. They're not allowed to go outside Except for in the front yard. They're not allowed to talk to anyone or do anything and she's obviously acting Very much totally like a different person. So yeah, of course, that's going to feed the kids delusion Sharks of the corn virus shark shark and stein shark to plus Yep, those are all real movies now on the bucket of chump podcast I dive into the bizarre funny and occasionally fantastic shark film So tune in every week as I sink my jaws into the deep blue sea that is shark exploitation cinema on bucket of chump I Elias and Lucas find an injured cat inside the tomb of a nearby graveyard They take it home and hide it under the bed The bandaged woman enters and begins searching the room like a guard tossing a cell She grabs Elias and holds him down on the bed before Removing the lock from the door and leaving for the night Later the twins watch her walk into the woods She wanders amongst the trees taking off her bandages removing her clothes and shakes violently The twins wake up in their bed They grab a cockroach from their terrarium and take it to her bedroom It scuttles across her sleeping face and crawls into her mouth The twins get more suspicious after digging through an old photo album and finding a picture of their mother with a mysterious woman who looks just like her After strange events mysterious phone calls and an endless scene of chores Lucas and Elias find their new cat dead behind a shelf Lucas has convinced their mother killed the cat Ongoing throughout this movie are endless scenes of them trying to prove That we the audience don't know whether or not Lucas is dead right One scene is with the boys brushing their teeth in the bathroom I don't know why he has to set a timer to do that That's there's something about this timer that I haven't figured out in the movie because it's constant They're always using it for like everything they do But Elias puts toothbrush down goes to get Lucas comes back Lucas uses the same toothbrush If that kid's actually alive, that's fucking gross That's all I'm saying So I have heard from friends that when you are a twin That the relationship that you have with your twin is very different than the sibling relationship That it is very that is close in a way that is hard for people to understand But I thought to myself Leo is never going to get over that fucking toothbrush I goddamn toothbrush I cannot imagine sharing a toothbrush with anyone let alone my fucking siblings I know them. I've been with them for 50 years. I can tell you that's disgusting So we do get to know their relationship though as twins Throughout the film because again It shows a lot of them running out and playing in the cornfields and playing in bogs and running around And I just made this interesting connection between that and the scene from earlier Where some sort of you know stop-and-shop esque delivery man shows up and drops off a bunch of food And I thought to myself you can really tell this is a german film And not an american film for two reasons Number one these kids are allowed to run and play in the forest and the bogs as much as they humanly want to But the fear is they're going to be trapped inside their house Where is in america? That's literally all we do to our children because we're terrified Of actually letting them, you know, like actually run around a little bit Also, I could tell from the food scene because when he is loading that freezer and he's saying wow You guys ordered enough food for a year I'm holding three pepperoni pizza boxes and one bag of frozen peas that I thought Jesus fucking christ you wouldn't have enough freezers for For americans for a year Well, you can tell by how thin these kids are I know I thought that too It's like these wispy children and their wispy mother I gotta tell you one of the best things that ever happened out of covid at least as an american citizen Is no contact delivery It has saved my life as an introvert I love being able to order food and then stay inside and say don't touch me Just leave it on the porch I bet in the american remake of this if they have that grocery scene that delivery guy is looking at those kids and he's like Hey, wow, you guys weren't so much food. It's enough food for a year and then you hear like the dump truck We have 2000 frozen jelly donuts I have to admit While I'm not Spoiler alert and love with this movie I'm curious to see what the american version of it is because we always have a tendency to fuck things up in the other direction of hell That's right that opened the first place. I'm gonna guess less boobs and more guns That's right That's it. It's on our slogan. Yeah, it's like a statue of liberty. It's in the book So there are points where the movie is trying to hide things that I think actually work Uh, and the reason I want to point those out is because i'm not opposed to some of the surprises of this film I just think all of them weigh it down For instance, I really like the scene where the mother comes in and she just tosses the room like it's a cell You know, she's literally searching for something and it's not clear what it is The drama is built up that there's a cat. They're not supposed to have an animal different things like that But I actually think this scene works because she's so frustrated with Elias You feel that he's been doing this thing where he's been talking to nobody for you know a year And it's reminding her of her dead child This is so upsetting to her even though we don't know this is happening at the time We're watching him talk to the person we think is his brother But what's actually happening for her is that he's talking to no one constantly reminding her of what she lost And so she's just frustrated with him and she runs in and sort of like throws everything around And then takes the lock so he can't lock his own door I actually thought that scene worked and one other one i'll throw in there too I do actually like the way they mask the dream sequence where she walks into the woods takes off all her clothes and starts to violently shake because You think that that is the kids having a premonition of what's happening But it's actually just a dream that they're making up I mean that's fair. I hear what you're saying about that. I don't know what the provocation was for her to Toss the room It seemed very out of sequence Yeah, they they were kind of arguing a little bit whatever else and for the people listening who haven't watched the movie Elias has been spending what do you say probably a year or so now? Yeah pretending that his brother is alive and mom's gone along with it So she's made two breakfasts and she set out two sets of clothes and all this other stuff just too Cater to Elias's delusion in a way of trying to help him process what happened to blah blah blah And I can see her being at her wit's end of the whole thing. Yeah I don't know what motivated her no, I don't I'm not saying I have to know it just seemed out of character for her to just suddenly burst in the room And start tearing it up looking for what eventually ended up being a lighter that she got all pissed off and bent about The kids not supposed to have a lighter in his room for some reason Yeah, that's another way that you can tell this is not american film too because she searches that room And she gets really pissed she gets pissed when she finds the lighter. She also gets pissed when she finds one Empty coke bottle. That's right. Just yeah, that's right. I thought jesus christ. What do you jerk off into it? Like what possibly like why are you so upset about this like that is the These kids are almost teenagers. That is the best thing that you're going to find hidden exactly A teenage boys room I will say this actually delivered what i'm going to say is probably the best line in the movie Is those moments Where your mom's trying to discipline you and you get frustrated within you're at that teenage level Where you're just learning to talk back a little bit but not enough to get in real danger Yeah, and she holds up the lighter and she's like why do you have this and elia says i wanted to burn some books Yeah, which is very bold for a german kid to say that's Fair point Fair point, but look I get some of your criticism to this film because there are things that I like about it But it is just tedious everything that we're explaining takes a really long time to get through There is a part where I had to get up So there's a part where elias and lucas are doing chores and they have it staged in such a way that like Lucas is just kind of like poking around the room But elias is the one that's actually doing the vacuuming because of course lucas uh, you know lucas isn't real And so there's this part where they're vacuuming and doing chores And I all of a sudden had somebody come to my door one of my neighbors And I had to get up and I probably missed about 20 minutes Which i'm just going to assume was 20 minutes of vacuuming because I literally miss nothing I I was doing this nothing In this film I sat down and I was like they're still vacuuming. I think i'm fine I watched those 20 minutes. You miss nothing I promise right and it really does beg the question Of if you're like me and you like a slow burn horror film Which usually is about character building is usually about building tension And is usually about building up to a Big moment one of the things I liked about the dark and the wicked was because it was very character driven I really liked the brother and sister in that movie And there was a lot of mystery around what was apple actually happening on their farm and I found the mystery interesting But then when it got to the end when that nurse takes those fucking knitting needles and rips out her own eyes Yeah, that's what those movies have to deliver on. They have to have a super fucked up ending You know, and I work I agree with that my my issue of slow burn films at least modern ones has always been They spend a long time building up to get to something that just kind of puffs at the end They don't agree give us the big feedback. They don't give us the big moment Which is to your point what you have to do if you're gonna make the style of movie And don't get me wrong Like there are art house horror films that do it better by splicing those things out I think we would both agree that pearl does it better because at least you have some kills along the way So that when she kills her cousin and she chops her up At least it feels like okay like we've had some We've been building this it's a good character. It's interest. It's an interesting character So we have a lot to work with which was of course very different than x which was much more like a slasher I love them both. So who cares but but my point being is that like I totally agree If you're gonna drag this out and I like a good drama and I like a good I like a good story that builds on itself I want a big ending. Yeah, but this movie like tests that Because there's just so many like long hallway shots and like skipping through the bog and You know like long sequences of vacuuming Don't even get me started and we'll get there later on a scene where they go to a nearby town No, good god, which i'm going to describe in one sentence in one sentence and it was about 15 minutes I I want to dip back for a moment on this because you talked about the dream sequence of mom walking off into the woods Yes, and There's like three moments in the film where they have her be completely nude for no good reason at all She just decides to which is whatever This is one of them. She walks off. She strips everything off She does that thing that they do in modern horror where her head shakes very violently fast You see it a lot in recent demon possession films And i'm wondering You and your old hippie days is this what tripping on mushrooms was like is this Could you confirm or deny if they had put some bonfires in the back of that scene And a couple of people with like tambourines. I would have thought I was home I can't say it. Does it seem very familiar to you? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's my 20s What's funny is that I did actually reflect on this one thing that you can always do So have you ever seen a George Clooney film called the american No, but I know what that is. It's a really I know what americans are I know I know the film So I it's a really good movie about an assassin. It's really good It's kind of a character study about an assassin. It's not a um action movie Got it And so I remember watching that film and being like oh this He's dating this like super hot woman in the movie And it shows her like very casually naked at one point And then there's a part where he has to search her house because he's sleeping where there But he wants to make sure she's not an agent And it's to show you how much this life sucks So he pulls open a drawer and there's a dildo in there And he kind of like pushes past it and then he searches the drawer and he shuts it And I thought this is not an american movie because they would never just show randomly like a like a vibrator If it was an american film and I was right it was a european film And I think so I think that some so there is actually like a non-insignificant amount of nudity that I think will actually people will question Because they're it's so casual, but I do think it's just you have to remember that like it's a german film And they're just so much more casual about nudity there. I have no complaint about the nudity I just think nudity in a film much like we've said with music in a film. It's got to be done Well, but she's also been some through some kind of accident. She's been through three tragedies Her child has died. She's had a divorce And also something Happened that has caused her to have this facial surgery And I think that there's a number of different ways you can interpret that and so I think just those Parts where she's looking at herself is she's just trying to like interpret her whole body and her whole look Regardless of all of that it sends the boys into conspiracy land. I say boys loosely obviously About whether or not she's actually mom because her behavior is so different and everything else is going in and then we get that Endlessly endless shot of the boys vacuuming the hallway, which is where it really is long There's like 10 seconds in that whole sequence where they overhear a conversation of mom on the phone Saying i'm not going to pretend anymore. He's gonna have to grow up or whatever the hell she says Yeah, other than that it's just Showing off how a kid of his age does not know how to vacuum a fucking floor I thought to myself this is I said this is going to be our biggest dislike point of disagreement Because I looked at that house and I thought why are they even fucking vacuuming? That is the most pristine perfect house i've ever seen in my life Why the fuck are they doing any more chores and then I thought leo is going to see just the dirtiest scummiest house He's ever seen and just want to clean it even more Contrary I agree with you. This is a very pristine house It's the reason why this stuck out to me They clearly have somebody coming by to clean this place on a regular basis. These kids aren't doing it So we're making them vacuum that floor is a punishment not a chore She's doing it just to fuck with them that what it must be why they show show like 20 minutes of these kids vacuuming They must be advertising for the twins the german twins cleaning service I understand he is only I love the idea they should just show it like it is though and they should just show one kid But then the other one is dead but make him a ghost and then just have the little feather duster like Floating in the air. He can get all the upper ceiling corners. It's great The dead boys cleaning service next on Netflix I also thought about this for the cockroaches too because I thought to myself leo's gonna fuck it First of all leo's gonna hate this movie because of cat dies in it second of all he's gonna hate this movie Because because because it largely focuses on a terrarium of cockroaches I don't hate that the cat died. I hate that the cat with my name died. They've fucked The cat's name is leo. I thought to myself huh finally got what he deserved I wish somebody kicked that cat unfair bullshit for this film. Fuck you My identity matters So But I do want to say about that terrarium So there's a terrarium full of cockroaches throughout the film that actually does get used in some interesting ways there is a part where they pull the Like cockroaches out of the terrarium and they put the dead cat inside. We'll get to that all later But so this this these cockroaches keep like popping up throughout the film And it did make me think to myself You really do have to make sure That when you are picking some sort of like prominent item or prominent animal to be really featured in your film You cannot pick the wrong thing because these scenes don't work at all if they have a pet parrot You're not wrong. Yeah Can you imagine that you can you imagine that scene with that parrot has to crawl inside mom's mouth You want me to do what? She's using his little feet to pull her mouth open. I was Sounds like yeah, I go from Jafar from Aladdin. I'm so ticked off that I'm molting I know that one of these kids is dead The twins empty their terrarium poor liquid inside put the dead cat in the tank and leave it in the living room for their mother to find She's infuriated. Elias is dragged upstairs thrown into his room and told to stop speaking to his brother And he says no, she slaps him Lucas believes she's trying to separate them the boys stay up late at night shaving down pencils to create crossbow bolts And defend themselves against the bandage woman when they listen to the radio hidden under her bed They hear a strange noise coming through the static Elias dreams of cutting his mom's stomach open and watching cockroaches crawl out To further defend themselves Lucas and Elias dress alike so that mother can't tell them apart The next morning their mother's bandages are removed when she unlocks the door to let them play outside The boys escape into the forest We do always strive to be fair to the films that we're Talking about and I obviously don't want to spend the entire time going Movie socks because there's good things about every film if you look hard enough for them and I do want to take the moment to appreciate this film giving me the nod To a superior film as these boys act like the lost boys putting vampire hunting weapons together In the middle of the night with their little crossbow and their pencil darts All I could think to myself is my god I used to try to do stuff like this when I was a kid Like I try to like make weapons and potions and shit and it was so fucking like lame and terrible Can I just have one movie that realistically shows kids making traps and none of them work That would be nice like oh fuck. This is lame. It's all duct tape and chewing gum literally Like it's it's all sad like the darts just shoot up into the sky The pencils break in half. It's always just like this like sequence where they play some sort of like techno music or they'll play something from I don't know like a rocky movie or something And it's like these kids are like they're getting ready to fight vampires And i'm like jesus crisis would look so sad if it was me Other than the shock value of it What was the point in putting the dead cat in the water? I don't know other than the fact that they might have been Experimenting with new artistic vibes Or it's the new centerpiece of the house dead cat That was really the crux of the scene was that the boys just didn't feel appreciated when they put their own artistic interpretation Into a terrarium and mom just couldn't appreciate it fair enough I've asked myself this same question too. Now. This is so lucas represents sort of the devil on elias's shoulder Right, which is you know lucas is the really the one that's sort of giving him all this information that you know Their mother is not really their mother and really Reading things incorrectly that are happening that actually makes sense on a on a second viewing Yeah, i'm not saying the movie is great on a second viewing but for instance Um, there's they find out that the house is being sold Right Lucas interprets that as there's something wrong with this woman where in reality if you suffered like three tragedies It's not crazy that you would want to sell your house and start over Yeah, get the hell out of there banda those memories get fresh ones Yeah, there's there's a part where they look through a photo album and all the wedding pictures are gone And this is supposed to show that this woman is like destroying the this this life But if this woman is real and she you know had a divorce It's not crazy. You would get rid of the wedding pictures that you had if your heart was broken I have nothing left of any of my exes So I can fully understand the motivation between uh behind burning pictures or taking them off the wall or what have you I have one gift that my ex gave me and it's just because it's really cool. It's a human skull So Hard to get rid of that But then again now it just makes me side with the twins and go you really didn't appreciate that dead cat and a terrarium I know right like seriously we worked hard on this cat For you we we emptied out our bugs for this. I mean come on In all honesty to answer your question. I actually don't get it other than the fact that we just don't hear Lucas Giving Elias really bad information. Lucas does say mom killed the cat He does say that that's you just say that and so I think it's just that sort of evil side of him That is basically doing something that's super fucked up to really push the mom over the edge Which is funny because it doesn't really push her over the edge all that much I've never seen such a calm reaction to a woman finding a dead cat in her living room Imagine you walk into your front room. There's a small fish tank with a dead cat floating in it Your response is to go get the jar of bugs that your kids collect and dump them into the water Right to kill them. Yeah, like fuck it So first of all this whole like i'm gonna throw I'm gonna hold a knife to your throat if you're gonna hold a knife to mine It's not on the same playing field like they killed a cat and you're killing their cockroaches like Right No, tell them all whole family needs fucking therapy. That's all there is Yeah Her reaction to that dead cat in the tank is Less of a reaction of holy fuck my kids are serial killers and they killed an animal and now it's in my living room And it's more like this doesn't match anything in the room. That's right. That's right Any like other pictures we have around here. I'm not gonna be able to steal this house with a dead cat in the fucking living room Come on. This is so embarrassing. This is like hanging up your kids stick figure on the wall When you've got like modern art This cat's going right on the fridge, honey. It's very sweet Right. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like when you can make some ugly art and you're like, oh, this is so nice It's so nice. Let's put it in the basement The basement fridge is the better one. You know that it's your arts display I believe I have told this story on this show But I want to tell it again just for anybody who hasn't listened to it or in case I haven't told it So when I took sex ed when I was in like fifth grade We had to use pipe cleaners to like remake the fallopian tubes You know And so you had to like put it on a string and you had to like put all these fallopian tombs together and whatnot And you know these pipe cleaners and I was just like mortified by the whole thing So I just took it home After I had you know gotten it graded or whatnot Just like threw it on the kitchen table and forgot about it And the next day I came home and found it hanging from my mailbox outside because my parents thought it was a mobile Hahahaha Total embarrassment I was mortified I'm not sure mom's winning the parent of the year award stuff that we would get arrested for in this country Yeah, so this actually comes up for me in horror movies um This came up with terrifier too Because if you remember there's a scene where the mother Slaps one of the kids in that movie. Yes, and I don't remember if it's the Lauren Lavera's character or if it's the younger kid. I can't remember. I can't remember who she hits in terrifier too And I actually remember and dear god people are going to take this out of context I appreciated it not because it made her mother of the year But because i've grown so fucking sick of perfect characters I've grown so sick of watching horror movies or film in general and having Every single character be put through this lens of whether they're the good people or the bad people And whether or not like all of their behavior Perfectly fall into this realm of they're a good person or a bad person and the movie has to like support those values And so on one side I totally get what you're saying because I think the mother does make a lot of mistakes in this movie And I think that It really does add to the idea that maybe there is something wrong with her Which is why that surprise and what the movie is actually about was actually an innocent person being tortured That surprise i'm i'm kind of into or it's not the surprise that i'm into it's the story that i'm into sure But at the same time I also did like appreciate her imperfection a little bit as much as I don't want As much as I don't want like bad things to happen to kids or people or whatnot I mean, but also that's fucking ridiculous to say on a horror movie podcast where we like weirdly splice out like Bad things are allowed to happen to you if you're like partying and you're 19 But like nothing bad could happen to you if you're 17 I don't really get any of the rules here. I know it's a tough subject for some people but I can like if you're in a romantic comedy. You don't necessarily want somebody slapping a kid around. That doesn't work. Right. Exactly. It's a horror movie Right horror movie. Nothing should be sacred You know and i'm not i'm not saying that everything has to be over the top and and total bloodshed and whatever else But i'm like if you're going to show Somebody's drunken father and the idea is that he's an abusive drunken father But how dare you ever see him hit anyone in the house. You just have to imply it I'm not going to care if he hits somebody. That's the point of the character. It's a horror film That's why I really appreciate the mother and i'll i'll give a i'll give a positive shout out that i've been kind of waiting on One thing i think like hands down. I think the mother's great in this movie I think she's job. Absolutely. I think that she's really good She's a very striking face like it's when they actually reveal her face She is really kind of like she's really kind of like beautiful in a very particular way And but she also like uses that Strikingness to look a little You know like she has a really strong look about her So when she is like later in the film when she doesn't have the bandages on anymore Like she's really able to convey a lot of like anger and frustration and empathy when things go really wrong And I felt for her even though she does some things that are really really messed up Because she's suffered in her life. I mean she's really hard horrible things happen to her and of course the movie doesn't end well for her But I thought but I thought the mom was really great and actually I actually appreciate all your points You and I have talked about this before and in other episodes where we're like wait a minute Like why are there sort of like these weird rules where like you're like the killer can kill 25 people But if they kill a dog like everybody gets like really upset not that I like I I love dogs in real life I also love people in real life like right because it's never about that It's just about the context of what we're watching and again if this was a Martin short comedy then yeah, we don't necessarily want to see people getting beat up or slaughtered or whatever else That's why for anybody doesn't know that's why Clifford didn't do well Exactly All the abuse in the movie That dog suffered a lot Right But I know I just think it's it's a unique thing that in I don't know if it's just in this country or what but we have where People make up the rules as you're saying about what's acceptable and what's not and those rules seem to change with every film Based on how it fits their narrative. Well, and I think that that's what this movie does well is that Her part of this story is complicated. She is not always a great mom in this movie But at the same time we end up feeling a lot of empathy for her because I mean she's really suffered We're gonna get to the part where she really suffers where she really suffers a lot the way that they reveal all of everything for the boys is After they get locked in the room they they band together to make all their vampire hunting weapons The next morning moms rattling the door saying let me in they do And that's when they revealed that her vendors have gone and she's okay after What whatever it's been three days a week. She's finally okay. It takes vendors it off and now it's their mom again question mark And I think that this gets into something that I I don't understand because I'm not a twin The boys come up with this idea that they're going to make themselves look totally identical So that she can't tell them apart and I get the psychology behind this which is that Elias thinks Lucas is real And Elias thinks Lucas is being ignored and they're trying to be separated She can't separate them if she doesn't know which one is which I actually totally get the psychology behind this I actually completely like it from a storytelling perspective. Sure I do not understand why anybody would want to dress exactly like their brother I gotta tell you this my brother and I one of them are only a year and three months apart And not literally twins, but I guess close enough we look close enough at a young age our entire lives everybody was Talking to us like oh your twins. Oh your twins and we went out of our way To not dress the same or behave the same because we got so fucking tired of it. So I get that My parents used to play a joke on me now my parents were They were not over you know They were not like overbearing parents in certain ways like we we played like these kids did like we played like in the woods You know and we would like just you know ride our bikes everywhere and run around but every now and then My parents especially if we were on vacation would just like lay out clothes for me They would like be like here you go. Here's that oversized Covered in blue and pink triangles like I just talked about in the credits three like here. Here's your outfit And I would think it was odd because of course They never laid out my outfits for me. So why are they doing this today? And then I started figuring out what they did because they did it several times to me They laid out my clothes what it meant was separately They were playing a joke on me and they had laid out the same fucking clothes for my brother Somewhere else and so then we would like walk out of the camper on vacation We were in the same fucking outfit. We'd have a Disneyland all fucking day In the same fucking outfit. That's almost child abuse I was I may have also brought this up on the show one time Somebody brought somebody bought My girlfriend at the time when I was in high school and me the same shirt Like it was like her grandmother or something like bought it for christmas bought us the same exact shirt And we walked into high school wearing the same exact shirt Oh, no They're like you want oh my god. That might have been the most hellish day in my life Walking with schools Right, right. I should have I should have just quit school. I should have just I should go back to the woods for me Yes, I have to become a mechanic now. I wore my the same shirt as my girlfriend for one day I Do think it's also funny that the mother comes in and she's actually trying to make good with her son And I actually really do understand that again. I think the actress does really good at like Quickly moving from this idea that she's this creepy strange lady to being really empathetic Because immediately when once the bandages were often her performance. It's not the bandages being removed. It's her performance She's much brighter. She's much more happy I immediately went okay. They're wrong. She's not actually evil. There's nothing wrong here And she's actually really trying to connect with them. This is going to go really bad But then she bought them a boomerang and I thought to myself There is like there is nothing that you can there's no like one trick pony toy Like you might as well buy them a toy that's going to disintegrate instantly Like a boomerang It's just it's gone after one throw I went on vacation with my mother to montana one time and she stopped in a little gift shop And I was allowed to pick out something I wanted And I got like a little davy crockett raccoon tail on a keychain And then I got a slingshot that had the name of the campsite or whatever on it I'm like this is going to be great. I love this thing It's going to be a lot of fun and I wasn't intending to be cruel with it I just wanted a slingshot if you need yeah, and she immediately refused and Not for my own safety or anything like that Just because she said The things that you buy as a keepsake are not these things You're supposed to buy like these little spoons or these little like momentum Keychains and shit like that and I'm like, that's not what I want though I want this would be my memory. This is my thing We went around about it any decent parent And I think it says a lot about her as a parent as far as this character in the movie goes That she's getting them a boomerang and a crossbow And things like this to play with I think that says a lot about her Right, she originally had two samurai swords for them They didn't get dropped off by amazon in time No See to me I thought it was more along the lines of a boomerang is such a safe bet toy That's not going to destroy anything because with one throw It is in a tree somewhere lost forever Then you're gonna spend the rest of the summer trying to get it out of the tree and then you're busy And I don't have to be deal with you This entertainment is better than tv Jumping up from the tree Trying to get a boomerang that they lost a month ago Standing at the windows sipping a coffee watching them suffer as they try to get this thing back I'm the smartest woman in the world Lucas and Elias walk to a nearby town and try to find help in the local church But are immediately driven back home by a well-meaning priest After the boys are locked inside their house Mother begins to open up about her struggles She tells the priests that after a divorce and an undisclosed accident Life has been hard She goes inside takes a pill and goes to sleep When mother wakes she's tied to the bed The boys are wearing masks standing over her Demanding to know where their real mother is when she doesn't give the answers they want They lock her in the bedroom Thus begins a series of cruel and painful tests to find out if the woman tied to the bed is actually an imposter These include dumping water on her face slapping her and burning her with a magnifying glass Also while gluing her mouth shut Elias shows concern for the woman, but Lucas is cold and determined to torture her When two volunteers from the red cross show up for a donation she tries to scream But is unable to get their attention The boys run to town to seek help They don't go to the police They go to a priest that's fine And the priest upon hearing their full story because the kids as they're driving in the car I assume by the way the dialogue happened. He told them he was going to take them to the cops They're like, could you please tell the police everything and vouch for us and blah blah blah And instead he takes them right back home to mom. What a fucking jerk This guy has a nerve to take the kids home Instead of like giving into their fantasies and delusions. What a weirdo. What an app i'm being sarcastic, of course You know how sometimes you'll watch a television show And there's that one episode where at the end the main character is like i'm going to get out of here And i'm going to go somewhere else And then you have this dead episode or two that is clearly like a closed loop Where the character goes somewhere else like has a few adventures and then goes right back into the same storyline That they were already in Right That's exactly what happens in the sequence right here and like i said It's long It is long. It's a bizarre sequence because they go to a town where there is Literally no one like there's no tourists walking around. There's no there's no like garbage collection There's no like winos on the streets I don't know if this is like celebration disney for anybody who's been to that weird neighborhood That is like that is like overly perfect I don't know if it's just like a new condo unit or cul-de-sac or whatever it is. I don't know what's going on here I was going to bring this up actually when they get to this town I think there was i only saw one other person maybe or it was just something that looked vaguely like a bush or something It looked like a person i don't remember And it was As if the kids walked into silent hill there was just fog everywhere and then suddenly the church And they didn't even see the priest they just saw this weird janitor guy and I thought this was about to become a very different movie Walking in the church like that, you know Right. I could just see the blanket that leo has around his waist just coming up to his eyes Yeah, it's very bizarre There's i think it's one person that's walking down the street and he's singing and screaming And there's like accordion sounds but it less it sounds less like he's playing the accordion and more like he's bashing his own head into it Again, just this bizarre sequence that you could throw off is like, okay, the whole movie's like a dream Look, I buy that when we're talking about phantasm Look, you can't you can't watch that movie and take it seriously and take it a little really And if this movie were Had better aims or just like a less meandering plot up until this point. I would actually totally buy the idea Okay, it's a little dream like that's fine. Yeah, I like movies like that. It's totally cool We again compare it to basket and you don't watch basket thinking that it's it's It's real like it's not totally real They're kind of caught in this weird time loop like things don't totally make sense Or actually a dark song is a good example too because that part where she leaves the circle that's of salt That's around her house, right? It's caught into a weird loop of like no people no time a limbo different things like that So look, I'm all in for the weirdness But this movie is taking itself so seriously. There's nothing supernatural here This looked less like they wandered into a real town and more like they Wandered into some like tourist village Out in the west where you could go and see like what a real german town looked like Exactly. That's again one of the inherent problems with this film that they're trying too hard with all the red herrings They're trying too hard with all the mystery. They're trying So desperately to do that art house film thing where they deliberately leave it vague So it's up to your interpretation because that's what smart intelligent audiences want and it's like Yeah, sometimes definitely But you have to get us there you have to give us the right tools to make that happen and what you're doing Is literally throwing spaghetti on the wall and hoping it makes art Look and it's about the killing time. It's not about the movie explaining things You and I haven't complained once that they don't explain the nature of the accident that they don't Explain exactly why the mom got the surgery. We don't care about any of that You and I love the vagueness of when evil larks. We love it That movie does not spell things out. You're just hearing about things second hand because it doesn't need to that Yeah, I actually loved interpreting this movie that that was not my issue Me looking at this film and going oh, I think I figured it out I think that she was a tv personality And I think that she was really dedicated to her look And so that was really jarring for her that when she had some kind of accident or something that she you know lost part of her look I liked interpreting that I liked interpreting Oh, she went through this divorce and it was really hard on her And so, you know, that's why she's just really caught up in all this depression and all of these All these difficult things and there's a there's a really cool visual thing that this movie does She has all this art in her house like It they're clearly well off and they all this modern art And I actually really liked something that they did they had all these pictures of people But they were all blurry. Yeah, and I thought to myself That's either that she's into this blurry art and it kind of like adds this sort of like element of of oddness And and mystery or it's the film choosing to blur it out as if like they're like nobody has an identity Look, I dig all this shit like this stuff. I thought was cool It's the meandering. Yeah for the record. That's the stuff. I'm into as well Her her bandages is a great example For the first probably half of the movie actually up until this moment basically I thought Whatever accident killed the brother she got caught up in and she needed to have the surgery Yeah, and then the kids are about to search her room looking for some answers to whether or not she's really their mom And they see pictures on the wall of facial reconstruction surgery, but it's her own face which indicates she's getting plastic surgery Right, which could be because she just had a divorce And they come across a computer that has what looks like a dating profile on her She's got a little video of herself on a dating profile And she wants to get back to her job as a television personality So maybe she wants to just look young again to help further her career to give them all a better life Da da da da da and you didn't figure that out until this part of the film and i'm great with that That's what I mean with the context clues. You give me enough to figure it out. I will happily interpret this mystery with you That's good film. Yes, I agree nothing but fucking twists and red herrings and back plots and whatever just to throw us off the scent and and stretch it out in this god awful 40 minutes of nothingness And that's what it is. It's nothingness. It's not that the film means something or that you can interpret it like a david lynch film It's like trying to interpret like the vacancy of space like it's yeah exactly and like it's just it's just giant Nothingness and and sort of randomness and it's those parts of the films that I really don't care for Which is sucks because when she woke up in the bed That's the part that works for me and here's what I realized The reason I always remember this movie better than it actually is Is because for the most part and it's not perfect. I love the fast last 40 minutes When when it gets to her being stuck in the bed And they are just questioning her and only horror fans will get this because only horror fans understand why we want cruelty in a film but When it starts getting cruel and I realize she was innocent that she is actually their mother And that this was going to be a film where they were just torturing her I was in Yeah I was in and I really like that part of the movie. I think it could have been a little longer I think that they need to actually I actually think it needs to be a little bit more cruel See, but I agree with you on that. I think that they didn't go far enough and I know that's weird to say. Yeah, but I like the Torture that they did Seems like the type that a kid of that age would do they wouldn't think big term torture. You know what I mean Yep, they burn her with a magnifying glass. Like yeah, like things that kids would do Supergluing her mouth shut shit like that. Yeah makes perfect sense for their age And it's fucked up in its own way. Yeah, but I think they could have gone a step farther And taking it a little I don't mean I wouldn't even begin to guess what But if they they just did a little more cruelty a little little like maybe actually cut her Or or you know pry her eye open with a toothpick or something so they could something that they can truck Just a little extra cruelty without actually being super damaging Try to look for the cockroaches So they had a dream that cockroaches in her stomach like actually try to cut her stomach open and see what I see You know or actually shoot her with the crossbow bolts because there was one that part exactly There was one part that I thought was like fucking awful and I mean awful as in a positive towards the film There there are three parts in this section Where I became like physically uncomfortable or like pulled back in the same way that When kathy baits smashes james cons ankles You know in misery And so that's why there's Things in this ending that I really love And but one of them is when they torture her by taking a piece of floss And flossing the fuck out of her gums. Yeah, and they are just putting down in there It's like a garret like it's just like they're just like they're just going through her gums And it just like it fucking hurt every nerve in my body And there's just blood pouring out of her mouth and I thought This is what I keep thinking this movie is. Yeah, I keep thinking that it's this fucked up moment that they're landing They're totally landing this moment But this isn't what this movie is this movie if it had been thick 15 minutes shorter in the first hour I'd even go so far as to say 20 minutes. I'm with you 20 minutes shorter in the first hour get to this 40 minutes of the torture And then give it another I only another two minutes is all you need and just a little bit more of just Awfulness now that you know that she's innocent. Yeah It really I think this movie could have been a home run And that's one of my landing points for this. I think this movie what I said earlier could have been better This is one of the reasons why it's everything you're saying it's exactly the point of Take it a little step farther cut it the time down a little bit more. So it's a sharper film and and reveal That she's innocent To the point that the audience gives a shit about her enough that this is cruel And this is a problem And that now she has to escape we're invested in her escape And look we're going to be invested in her emotionally too not just because we want her to survive But now she's going through a fourth fucked up thing Right like deeply fucked up, you know like her own kid Torturing her while talking to his the spirit of his dead brother You know this is messed up And this could have like hit so deeply And been so difficult but the movie is farting around so much in the beginning with all of these like Mysteries and all these like red herrings and all of this like oh, we're going to trick you into thinking it's something else I kind of just wanted to follow the story as it is Maybe have it trick you a little bit into going okay We don't know if the mom is actually this creepy person But it's really when she's it's very clear. She's not creepy and when it's very clear that she is a person who is Really um struggling. Yeah And then has this horrible fate. This is the part that actually the movie I kind of I'd like perk up every time and be like i'm in i'm in for this. This is this is a good movie And I think that you struck the words right there could have been The fact that we have to use those words with this movie is a damn shame Right And look I don't even mind some of the tropes of that kind of film. You know usually when the movie is just about somebody's like torture They have all these like red herrings in a different way, which is the red herrings are going to get out You know so think of the uh, what is it like a knife in funny games where you know Naomi Watts like eyeballs the knife and then like nothing ever happens with it. You know So you those kind of things are the trope of that movie, right Uh, uh house of a thousand corpses kind of does that too where it's like, you know These like oh, you think the dad's gonna have like some big plot point, but then he really just dies and then everybody ends up wearing his face You know, right? Yeah, that old that old humdinger. I don't know chestnut. Yeah, right. We all know that we've been there Yeah, they do that in every christmas special too, but you could have done a little bit of that You know you and the movie does poke around with it a little bit with these these red cross volunteers who I don't know like also we're channeling joe biden at the Political debate most red cross volunteers They knock on the door of the house and then they just let themselves in and it's supposed to be like oh They could discover that the mother's upstairs being tortured But at all I did think of this like what is wrong with these two elderly people that clearly need medication Because they're just wandering around this person's house I sometimes with a film like this will do a little research online I don't with every one of our films, but the art house films I do now and again just to See if my interpretation of what's going on matches the masses or if i'm standing alone And I read something online from somebody. I think this is an Austrian film at the end of the day And they said this is actually not uncommon in austria for red cross to just walk in your house like that Apparently that's a thing that actually happens. It's pretty realistic and i'm like that's fucked up That's fucked up that you can just have somebody's grandparents walk into your home Looked very confused and lost and you have to just give the money to go away So so that was why I defended her walking around nude because I saw something about um Uh, I was looking into I was watching this little documentary about like saanas because I really I really like saanas And so um they had this little part in it It was kind of funny where this woman who was uh Norwegian was was talking about saanas And she said the culture around saanas is so funny in norway She goes because what everybody will be nude co-ed but no one will speak to one another It's very it's just very particular how like cultures are like like we're friendly in certain ways But not in others and so I actually did wonder because I did know it was an austrian film I I know that there was I was saying german, but you ever sure what I meant. But yeah, but um But I did wonder that I thought to myself Is this just common that people would literally just walk into your house and literally like go upstairs like do everything But drop a deuce in the bathroom Like having a shower and shit Doing their laundry And again Just to like talk about how be labored this film can be when the two red cross People the red cross like wandering elderly when they go down the stairs And they're sitting at the banquet table and the kids sitting there He's kind of trying to hold them off The dialogue is so slow all I could think of is do you remember the delicious dish sketch At um saturday live. This was the one where it was molly shannon And I think anagastair where they played like they were on an npr It was the shreddy balls one. So it was like when they were oh, yeah So it was like they were on npr and they would have the soft voices They would talk very slowly And the whole joke was that they would always talk about visual things on radio show So they would always like show pictures from their vacation Even it was on a radio show But do you remember how they were talking that npr voice of like very slow? Yeah, and very light and very nice And that is just what this scene is with these two like volunteers Trying to get money and you're supposed to like feel tension like oh my god They could you know, they could discover that this woman is being tortured upstairs But it's just it just goes nowhere, which is fine Which is fine, but it just struck me But it's funny because it was so slow and that's definitely to prove the point what we're talking about Again not to belabor it, but you got a scene right in your hands of people are in the house They could discover mom the kids have to think fast. That's a good tension scene We've seen in a lot of other films. It works really well when it's done really well But what you did was take that great tension scene Sit it at the dinner table and have a conversation with your grandparents about technology Yes, do that serve them applesauce like right You just slowed everything down so fucking much and you took the tension away and it was like, okay Good the scene's finally fucking done and it's just sad that the movie is doing that shit In a world that has been completely divided for so long Two movie fans have decided to unite for the people and the betterment of mankind One an action movie buff The other a horror movie fanatic Together they will try to bridge the gap of both genres into one podcast with their battle cry Give me back my action and horror movies Listen along as charlie innate alternate each week talking about action and horror movies They cherish mostly from the bhs era Also including some modern examples that felt like the movies they grew up with by answering the battle cry Give me back my action and horror movies Available wherever you listen to podcasts look them up on facebook and instagram The boys continue torturing the woman by cutting her lips with scissors and violently flossing her gums But she continues to cry and insists that she's their mother After pissing the bed She's allowed to get up and change her sheets The woman runs from the room and tries to escape but her foot catches a tripwire and she's knocked unconscious They drag her back into the living room where she wakes up glued to the floor This is where she reveals that lucas isn't real He died in an accident and she's pretended he was still alive Elias refuses to listen and issues her one final test He asks the woman glued to the floor to describe what lucas is doing in the room right now When she can't because he isn't real Elias uses a candle to light the room on fire and their mother burns alive Later that night a firefighter puts out the flames one Later that night as firefighters put out the flames of their burning house Elias and lucas walk through a cornfield The ghost of their mother embraces the boys and they sing as ash falls around them While I normally have some sort of a joke or some sort of a pontification ready All I have are lines of what happens here Mom's torture continues as the boys try to get the answer to looking for she pees herself She escapes but doesn't it's just one thing after another and I think that in itself is speaking to This ending of this movie It's not necessarily that the ending of the drag because I agree with you the last half of the movie is more fire Nope, I'm intended to it than the first half of the film but The fact that I'm watching this and I said I did this normal watch three times thing and I'm just still my notes are just This happened this happened this happened and it's not catching me enough to make me go Here's a funny thing or oh did you notice that? Which I think is up the place where I I kind of assumed we would diverge a little bit Because I love this ending. I love it like I don't want this movie to be a different film When she pisses herself and she you know gets up and you know changes the bed because they allow her to get up to Yeah, they don't want to change her pissy bed Which I like because at that age the boys would be like I'm not touching your pc. It's you fucking do it That's makes perfect sense and it totally makes sense that she would be able to escape There's just one boy. There's there aren't even two boys in the room. There's just one boy And when she runs out of the room and she hits that trip wire and her head Hits the ground that is I thought that was some pretty masterful filmmaking in the fact that it just simply again It was probably got retching moment number two. Yeah, where it just got me. Mm-hmm. Yeah Like that she fell hard Especially for somebody who just had facial reconstruction surgery to land literally on your face on the cement outside That sucks and it feels so cruel, you know, like that's the movie again The actress really lands the fact that she becomes empathetic really quickly and so it just feels so cruel And I do she has a line of dialogue that I love though when she wakes up and she's glued to the floor Which is totally fucked up. Is that what i'm sorry to interrupt your point But this actually addresses a note. I had a little bit later on About she was not tied down. I was like, what the fuck was keeping her on the floor? Did they super glue her there? Is that what happened? They super glued her down Okay, because I the whole fucking time. I'm like, why don't you just stand up? What the hell you didn't hate your face that fucking hard Okay I'll take that note out I I really looked at this and I thought to myself that is just totally fucked up to be glued to the ground That's also really strong glue Hey, I mean, I don't think I've ever used a super glue so strong that like it takes me a while to wash it off my fingers But it comes off eventually these boys do like arts and crafts and shit. They're not put together planes I would have if my life depended on it. I was glued to the floor I would have gotten up like it was fucking gulliver's travels like Justin when the room catches fire. I'm like, I'm out fuck. There's either that or would have been like Gerald's game I would just rip my own skin off like I Okay, well that explains that anyway But I do love a line of dialogue She says because now she's desperate like it's like the final, you know She realizes she's gonna die and she says the accident wasn't your fault And she says it to Elias in that way that tells me the accident was definitely his fault That's that's your mom going. It's okay. Honey. They were just they didn't understand you You all played with dynamite like a little way. Yeah, right Like I would have thought that you could have tied a rocket thrown him into the lake and that he would have been able to swim too Just anything just get me out of here I mean, you always played the rock-drown game. I this time it didn't work. It's okay I didn't know that boomerang would come back and hit him in the eye like I If I'd even thought about that, I never would have bought you the boomerang song right my fault really I do empathize with these characters though because I do want to go back to that part where they floss Her which is like again. That just really got under my fucking skin I thought that was all great. You know, they have to cut her lips open because they've glued her lip shot Was fucked up and then they accidentally cut her lips and then they're flossing her teeth and I thought to myself Oh god, I so empathize with this because that was the only way people could get me to floss Fair enough But again, I don't want to keep I also don't want to be a dead horse I really love this last 30 to 40 minutes. I don't think that they do quite enough to her I think that they needed five to ten percent more But I mean, she's glued to the crown and she's crying and screaming and they're threatening to light the roman fire That's pretty fucking harsh. I was gonna say I don't think they do enough in general like definitely not enough to her, but I think Again shorten the first half of the film and make more of it this kind of thing But give it just that little more a little more emotion a little more empathy a little more torture a little more everything I think what would have really sold this film for me And I think that that's what's too bad because I really truly love the ending When they light the curtains on fire and when she's stuck with a question that she can't answer that kind of pulls at my heartstrings because It really is unfair She cannot Answer Elias's question which Elias's question is what is lucas doing in the room right now And when she can't answer it because he's not fucking alive and she can't see the hallucination She says I can't see him. I don't know right and Elias says our mother would be able to Right and and that just like let like really pulled at my heartstrings And so then when they light the curtains on fire and that whatever liquid was in the the cat fish tank Was flammable and so that burst up and she just gets consumed with this liquid fire And it's pretty fucking awful and it's literally on the heels of her Trying to do anything she can to get through this To the point that she's looking at Elias going I'll play along again I'll play along again. I'll put out two sets of clothes again. I'll make two breakfast again We'll do it just like it was before yeah, and he's like you're lying you're lying. I'm gonna burn the house down. Fuck you And I think that that's what it is for me and again you you Feel differently about this. That's fine But for me, it's like I watched the worst baseball game in the world And then somebody hit a home run at the end and all I remember is the home run Like that's fair. That's fair because her burning alive is exactly what I want the movie ending to be It is harsh. It's unfair. It's look. Is it not the most fucked up death? We've ever seen that's not what i'm asking for I'm only trying to come. I and I don't think you are you and I are We like a good death, but we're not we're not looking to constantly top the next one It's got to be the right death for the movie. That's not necessarily right And her burning alive is is totally fair. It's within the bounds of what these characters would be able to do It is a fucked up ending for this movie and it's perfect Jesus christ like I just had to fucking like I had to like cancel appointments and shit to get here And I agree with you. It's the right ending for this film I you know, I I think this ending works At this point this is not the part i'm complaining about I think the torch are leading up to this The kids setting her on the living room floor in some sort of ritual pattern and then burning the whole fucking thing down And screw it that all works. I I think for me, it's everything that comes after it where The firefighters or or snuffing out the flame and mom just walks out of the house like nothing happened And then we meet She's standing in the fucking cornfield with lucas and allias By the glowing Embers of her burning down home is one big fucking happy family and we're left deliberately open to interpretation on an ending Just like these types of movies adore so much to do and maybe it was just the starting of the children of the corn I don't fucking know but so it So I will say one thing just for everybody So if you look really closely when it shows the firefighters like like You know like get put down the fire and whatnot There is something that's out in the yard that they're like spraying down with a fire extinguisher Which i'm pretty sure is her body, but I found like extra hilarious They just dragged her out in the yard and that one firefighter is like Yeah, yeah, they couldn't have just left her in there. They drug her out sprayed her down. It's how i'd maybe they're trying to save her but the So when the The mother being present in this scene is that she's just a ghost or she's just you know Like an active part of allias is mine. That's supposed to be real You know Which is fine, but I feel like i've sent seen this ending before and I think I might have just enjoyed cutting it off at Allias just standing outside watching the place burn Yeah, and listening to her screams The idea that i'm going to sit here and think like oh my god This is so amazing because we've had this big reveal now that Lucas wasn't dead and you know was dead the entire time and now mom's dead and now they're all together in this sort of like weird spiritual family Again that surprise didn't work for me. So the ending this part of the ending this little like prologue at the end or epilogue I can never remember which one's which epilogue at the end. Thank you um This little epilogue at the end Doesn't work for me because it relies on surprises that I didn't care about Or surprises that they already gave away But much to the point of her lying on the floor in the living room about to be set on fire And that was the big reveal that lucas was dead when In the first 10 minutes of the film they told us that was true And for the rest of the film I'm not trying to insult anyone who didn't get it. I'm just saying for the rest of the film You knew there the clues were so fucking obvious. You couldn't have not known You know and the fact that they're going to be like oh shocker All right leo Let's close this up The big The big so this is kind of like like this mirror's good night mommy so well Because the idea that like you're going to have some big like surprise ending of how you feel In a movie that's kind of we've kind of laid it out Yeah, yeah I'm going to end up monologuing a little bit more than I usually do. I think I feel like my notes are long on this The cinematography was good. The premise was good Overall not a bad film, but there was just so much I don't even want to say holes in the plot or the story. It was just frustrating to watch This whole thing You know, I said I spotted the main twist relatively right away Which makes me think that at the time the real twist would be something entirely different And it wasn't Which was really disappointing and honestly a shame because this movie could have done something great at the end With it not really being the mom or something like that And they didn't bother they just relied on the lucas twist which they gave away as I just said to fucking fast in the film Like way too many movies today. This movie didn't end. It just stopped And that's another problem. I have with these art house films I don't understand why writers and directors are doing this more and more these days It feels like bad movie making or maybe it's just lazy or maybe that's just how this genre is And that's why I'm often so frustrated with this type of film I don't fucking know but I like to have an ending like I I don't know I frustrate myself saying that because I'm okay with open-ended stuff to some degree, but when you just stop And there's no closure and there's no like real definitive whatever Sometimes it's a little irritating And I think the other problem that gets to me is that this movie asks to have three major questions One was it really their mother? There are too many red herrings the picture of her with her friend who looks identical to her the dating profile videos They said she had brown eyes instead of blue all this other stuff going on even when they're being tortured And she doesn't answer their questions and doesn't recall simple information about the boys and everything else Many concerns are addressed, but we never get any actual confirmation beyond her own explanations The other question they ask us is what caused the accident? I like that that one's vague. I like that they don't answer it to be very honest Like we get that hint in the in the beginning that it was one of them drowned in the water She says it's not your fault clearly it was his fault Maybe it was something to do with a fire the way she went off about her kid having a lighter and how horrible that was But there was no indication of anything to the house that was caught on fire or anything like that. So Who knows? I'm going with the drown in the lake theory myself But again There's no Context clues or any real Work around this to define what actually that was The third question is why did mom get the surgery? Was it because of the accident that is unclear from the previous question Was she's just trying to look young again to further her career and get back into things dating and otherwise they're ambiguous about that too and I think the problem for this film is when you Have three major questions that you need answered and every one of them is a we'll see but then we never see it just Frustrates the audience frustrated me and I'm like, I don't know I I don't know what you want from me because you're having me go through your whole film to get these answers And then you're telling me I can make the answers up on my own. Why did I watch the film in the fucking first place? at the end Elias is dead Question mark and joining his ghost family for one big happy ending or he's alive and so far in his delusion that He sees his dead mom the way that he sees his dead brother and he's just standing out there alone insane on a cornfield Again, we don't know and that's that the movie just stops. It's just done So I don't I don't feel like it was a big fat fart of an ending I just wish that the epilogue part of this didn't shit on the really cool part of this which was the fire and everything else I don't get into it too much on the show, but I'm very interested in politics and I tend to watch a lot of shows that Have somebody from the right and somebody from the left like having like not like mean-spirited debates, but like You know like kind of good honest debates, you know, I have a couple of shows that I like That do that I'm always fascinated when they agree on something when they agree on for instance that they don't like that It's a two-party system because I always love when people agree on something but for very different reasons I thought I find that really interesting and I had a feeling that was going to happen with this movie You and I would agree, but for somewhat different reasons so You said so many things that I are totally spot on Number one I actually was really glad that you flagged the cinematography because that's a positive the cinematography is great It's really really really visually striking movie And the way it is If you're going to have a mysterious script and it's not the cinematographer's problem if it's a mysterious script At least shoot it in kind of cool mysterious way and it does find ways of shooting the mother really well when she is Almost thought of as this like alien You know, she's very distant. She's never quite sent her frame She's always like to the left or to the right and these sort of like odd framing sequences It's really really well done. I really the the movie looks gorgeous I also just sent some on the positives I thought the mother was excellent I thought the mother was really good in this movie And I think she brings a lot of acting chops to the table in a very subtle performance She's really able to bring about the empathy Which brings us to the last 30 to 40 minutes that for the most part I thought cooked pretty well Even though I think that it needs about 10 more of that torture to really have this big, you know, like Fucked up ending that it's aiming for and you know, like you could complain like oh my god, Steven You want more torture in a movie it the the movie is about torture like yeah, you know, so it is what it is But I I loved something that you said which is frustrating Because that is so deeply how I found this movie and maybe it's because I just really see the potential And look, maybe i'm caught up in my own head of what I want the movie to be I don't want the movie to tell a different story, especially when it comes to these two kids Thinking their mother is something that she's not getting it totally fucked up and and torturing her for an answer that she can't possibly give That is a pretty great horror story to me And look you can even have Lucas be dead Just fucking get over it just get over it because I find It's frustrating not because the movie has answers. It's not willing to give and it's just constantly winking at it And I I respect what you said there where it's like You don't mind some level of interpretation, but it's just constantly promising things. It's just never going to give exactly for me It's frustrating And it's tediousness just just in the simple like Look, I don't mind shots that breathe, but jesus fucking christ Like there are just certain things that we don't just need to stare at for hours on end I mean there are Parts where the boys are being driven home and it's just like Shots of the forest that are just like dragging on and on and on and also Quite frankly the dialogue doesn't help because the movie is so hell-bent on hiding its surprises Which one of which I think it hides very well Which is that the movie is actually going to be about this the torture of this innocent woman And one that I think it hides very poorly Which is that the brother is actually dead It just has to create this like meandering awkward dialogue So that the mother comes off as villainous and weird and so and because it wants to hide the fact that she can't see lucas So she has to kind of like Address Elias and then they have to kind of switch the two kids back and forth So you don't really know which one is which and it just is so like Stilted that it just makes the movie feel Long and boring It's it just feels boring And that is my biggest crime when it comes to horror film is feeling boring And this this is coming from me This is coming from somebody who can deal with a slow paced horror film as long as it's got good characters I keep comparing this to it to um A dark song that had deeply compelling characters That are really able to pull you through that plot and even though there not a lot of people die in that movie It's the same amount as this movie only one person dies in that movie You're pulled along Why this torturous sequence that this woman is putting herself through in a dark song And then also just simple fact that these are such compelling characters That I was really interested in what they were trying to go through But that movie is only hiding one thing which is the true nature of when she's why she's trying to cast that spell That's all the movies trying to hide So it doesn't have to do these awkward like dialogue sequences where she's talking to simon and simons Like pretending that he doesn't hear her because she's not really there Yeah, exactly. Do you get what i'm saying like you can have a surprise? You can have a character reveal something like hey, the reason i'm doing this because my kid was murdered I want to fuck those kids up with a dark and evil spell versus this movie which is like poking around with The mother like kind of recognizing that louis lucas is there and kind of not sort of looking at his direction saying some weird line of dialogue That once you've watched the movie three times you can interpret that what she actually was doing was talking to Elias But it looks like she's talking out the window because they have to trick you it just feels so stilted Which too bad because there's a good movie in here. There's a really good movie in here and I want to go on record I disagree with you about your interpretation of how lucas died. You think he drowned. I think he was killed with boomerang That's fair. That's fair. He can die by boomerang. I don't give a shit at this point. That's really what it's down to Maybe it was both maybe oh we never watched we never watched the whole credit sequence because we found the movie do boring So maybe it's like maybe it's like friday 13th part seven. Maybe like the camera goes under The water is just gonna boomerang sticking out of And he's just levels coming up out of his mouth in the lake I like that this film has an mcu ending and post credit scenes That does get me more excited for good night mommy too Which I don't think anybody's actually making I hope they never do I think The comparisons you make to this film are valid And I think the one that I bring to mind every time I think about it is the exorcist And not literally comparing the two because they're not exactly the same type of movie But i've always seen the exorcist as a slow burn film What's interesting about the exorcist is that it's slow burn in two parts The first half of the movie is the slow burn to get to reagan is possessed The possessed reagan part is also a slow burn to get to the major payoff at the end And it's really well done for me. It's the pinnacle of a slow burn film It's the sort of thing where you pay it off halfway through the movie for all that quote-unquote boring shit in the front it wasn't boring to me, but you know what I mean And gave us a possessed child And then all of the boring shit quote-unquote to get to the possessed child is going to fuck you up And then murder this priest paid off It was it was a win win the entire way through This movie is the reason I compare it is it's trying to do a very similar thing It's trying to give us two or two and a half plot twists that we're going to totally shock us and surprise us One of them they gave away too soon. The other one they didn't even try to do And the half of one was like And it just fucking slogged the whole way there And had they just followed a better formula or whatever it would have taken to get them there it would have been a better film I thought your point about the exorcist is great because I've always thought that the exorcist was way more of a character study And I've always found it fascinating that was considered to be like the scariest was fucked up movie ever made Because again, I've always just thought it was much more of a character study of the priest and the mother Really trying to connect and understand their feelings about this really really difficult thing that's happening so There's a potential for this kind of movie and I really Like I'm just gonna like beg our audience. I'm really looking to watch a really good fucked up horror movie right now With some good characters and I want a little bit of a slow burn But I want something that really fucking delivers on the end Yeah, if you have a recommendation, please send it to spoilsofhorror@gmail.com Don't send your foot pics. Those go to a cut above horror review at geocities.com. That's where they're also Flashing back to our opening segment if you want to prize for this if your movie is good enough If you hit the button well enough for us, it might be our next uh, christmas special So yeah, think about that absolutely and you could get a bunch of junk that we have in our houses Right. I will pack a lot of boxes full a lot of dumb bullshit for you and get it I haven't I need to shave my head. I could give you some of my hair shaving Here's my DNA kids a little jar A spoils a horror special and that girl was selling her bathwater. Who knows this might actually work Hey, listen. Listen If you in our in our critters crossover with our friends a cut above Got to merkins before we did and that was i'm still fucking mad about that Still fucking mad about that. I don't know how we I never thought of a merkin I don't know, but whoa, you know, we'll fight them for it legally. It'll be fine. Well. Yeah, let's say also We could do the spoils of Horace Kirk Douglas. That's the really big deck Good, you can have your little little here we vagina fine I'll tell you what though. That brings us to the perfect segue I wanted to before we wrapped it up say thank you to a cut above To give me back my horror movies action movies and to cinema slab Who is the newest contributor to our stupid little collaborations? We do like this and we had a lot of fun doing the critters episode I've heard two of the three of your guys's shows. I'm not going to tell you who's and Everyone did a really great job and they all flowed really well together. And that's one of the things I love about this project is Everybody has their own take and everybody has their own style. But for some reason If you were to watch critters All four movies back to back shame on you, but if you were to do it It would have a flow and it would have a theme and we all had the same kind of style and that was fucking magical That blew my mind how well those episodes all fit together And you and I were right they talked about boobs. I talked about d wallis 100 right. I know who i'm talking about Yep We know those guys we know so yeah, i'll put another link in the show notes for For you know for those episodes so go check them out They're really really really fun And I did also want to make an announcement because we haven't announced much of our movies yet. So Depending on where this falls and everything because we have a uh, you know Because we did release a episode that was an old episode because we had to kind of you know Just taking a little bit of a break, you know enjoying the summer And that is going to happen a little bit more folks as we go through You know leo and i do have lives and we have jobs and this doesn't pay So we have to change that you could change that um, but I can tell you that our next movie is going to be friday thirteenth part three Which is phenomenal. It's going to be a lot of fun. We both adore that movie and it's We talked about one that we adore I know we we have had a kind of a string of bad movies. It's not intended. We're not a bad movie podcast But I was thinking about it. I was like warlock and the hills have eyes have been our last Love feasts I think it's also equally funny that of all the films we picked over this last month that we kind of didn't love There was at least one or two in there that we thought we were going to love and just ended up not doing so Yep Yep So it's not really by design. It just kind of happened We're going to go. I it's so funny because I went to the movies because I thought I was going to uh, I thought in a violent nature it might be a movie that I would consider and then I didn't like that so And that's part of it to be fair We have to sit down and watch these movies to be like yeah, that one that one's good And I don't have a lot of times I'll watch all like 12 movies in a day So still I know because I haven't watched in the witchcraft movies. So, um It wasn't his way through He says I can't stop watching him. He loves him I'm gonna fun to everybody down who made those movies. I'm gonna fucking them up Anyway, so Friday 13th part three a movie that we love So we'll that'll be next and then we will uh, we'll tell you some more movies that are coming up That's it. Have a good night. Bye Bye [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
