back to you in a few minutes. >> The dulce atones of Ben Nicholson Smith. >> There. >> He's working BNS. >> He is. There's never a time throughout the day that someone's not like, hey, just quick question for you. >> That's true. >> I know. I bug him. Be a text too much. I know we all do here. Just to put that in context for people, Juan Soto, who knows what that deal is going to end up looking like, it would be very large. Fernando Tati's Jr. 14 years, 340 million. So, yeah, if on one end of the spectrum is Madeleine's 160 and the other end is 340. Yeah, I'd say there's a bit of a difference there now. It's also very different players in terms of what you're looking at from a Madeleine versus also what Fernando Tati's Jr. has become, but also what he was when he kind of signed that contract. I think that you hear that from BNS and my mind goes to one place and one place only. This isn't about to Vlad. What he's worth. This isn't about what he can get. I think those things are obviously factors. This is about where he sees himself in the game. And this contract is going to -- I mean, look, all walks of life like we love to be respected by people around us, but once you start working, there's one way your boss can be really nice. And he could send you notes and say you're doing a good job, take you out for coffee. There's one way to show respect for people who work for you. You pay them money. And the more you pay them, the more you respect them. Generally speaking, that's the way people view this arrangement. And I think that that's how Vlad is going to look at this next deal. I don't think he's so delusional. Maybe I'm wrong. To think that he's won so, though. I think you'd have to be pretty delusional to see the way your career is gone and to see what that guy has done and say no, we're the exact same. I don't know what you're talking about, we're the same guy. What are you talking about? There's no way you could do that. But I think it's a -- he views himself much closer to that ballpark of player than he does a -- again, a guy who's an awesome talent in Mad Olson. I think it's just he clearly has a peer group that he one feels a part of, but two, they also feel he's a part of. Again, look at the All-Star game. See the way he is fed there. And I think that's the thing that is going to be the toughest about this. Because for a player who wants to be here, and I 1,000 percent believe that Vladi would love to sign a long-term deal, to be in Toronto as a J face of the team, all that, for a guy who wants to be here and a player whose production has quite honestly stabilized since that All-Star season, this should be relatively easy to do. But I think the biggest hurdle for this is going to be the gulf between what a fair deal for Vlad is versus that for those guys that he considers his peers. Let's add another caveat for that. He's a son of a Hall of Famer, and his dad was a pretty darn good player, and at every turn his dad was compensated like a superstar. That's something there. It might be frankly part of the motivation in dictating why he hasn't signed a long-term extension to this point. It's the same thing with Total Shit. There's no incentive. Unlike what the Braves did with Akuna or Nazi Albi's point to other young players in the game, it was outrageous. It's a long deal and it's loaded in terms of the money, the actual financial figure attached to it. But why were those teams able to sign those players at that particular point in their careers? It's because they came from a different background and different life experience than Vlad and Bo. And I think with Vladi, you hit the nail on the head. It comes down to perception versus reality. There's this perception that he has, that his team has, that other players within his own orbit probably feel that he is worth. He views himself as being in that same class as Soto, as -- I don't want to -- I mean, nobody's in the same class as Otani, but Soto, Tatis, you know, Akuna. Like being in the breath of some of the marquee names in the sport, whereas in reality, he's not quite there, but he's still an above-average player. So what is the happy medium that you can median, that you can strike as a franchise in trying to sign him long-term? What does that look like? And the problem is, he also plays a different position compared to a lot of those guys. Tatis, when he signed that deal was playing shortstop, now he's in the outfield, so it's less of a value play in terms of the positional flexibility and value that he carries. Same thing, Akuna, though, again, center fielder, a guy that plays around the different parts of the outfield as well. We point at Soto, we know what he does offensively. Like those are, there are a lot of generational talents there in terms of what they bring to the table. But with Vlad, when we look at first base, it's tricky to find any true comparables. Like one of the comparables that you circle and say, yes, that is the framework of a deal that might be reasonable. Honestly, if we even look at the Olson deal, that also hit 50-something hold on. Like, he's a good player. He's a really good player and was one of the best first baseman in all of baseball, right up there with Freddie Freeman, who is the highest-paid first baseman in the sport. And if I'm trying to find anything that will actually provide a decent baseline, I keep circling back to one player. It's what happens with Pied Alonso. That's the one, Gunner, because he's in a position where a perennial 40-homer guy, somebody that, in today's era of majorly baseball, where it's all about power. It's all about run production. He checks every box as a guy that would logically be a very attractive option to sign long term as a free agent or if you're the Mets to extend them. Yet the Mets are playing hard ball with them. So I am extremely curious to see when the time comes, which will be this offseason, what his deal looks like. And I think the Blue Jays would be wise, honestly, to wait until that deal is signed before making a firm determination on what is a reasonable price point for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. There. It's slightly different points in their career because Vladi is a few years younger. But in terms of raw production, Pied Alonso, you can make a case based on -- and everything, honestly, if you sort of just put their career statistics side-by-side or year-over-year, there are a lot of parallels because as much as we think Vladi has lost a lot of power and it has, it's dissipated. He still hits for some power. He's still a guy that's going to do -- he's going to hit for a higher average than Pied Alonso. There are -- that, I think, is a reasonable, comparable between the two players. And I keep referring back to him as the benchmark for where I would start the conversation with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. >> Man, it is jarring the similarity of the numbers. It just did the player comparison to Alon on baseball reference. So career war, Pied Alonso. And they have played -- they're within 30 games of each other in terms of, like, it's perfect to do that. >> That's actually really interesting. >> So Pied Alonso, 18.3, Vlad, 17.4. Okay. That's fine. Like, again, like similar ballpark. One win is not nothing but over the span of a career, it's not the be all and end all. Vladi, more hits, about 100 more than Alonso has. But, but Alonso has about 70 or so more homers, more driven and more runs. I mean, stolen base, so we're not going to include for these guys. But I'll give Vlad credit. He has four more than Pied Alonso has. But batting average, higher for Vlad. OBP, higher for Vlad. And obviously, slugging OPS, OPS plus. That all tips in Alonso's favor, but closer than it's not. So that is the one. But the problem is with this is and negotiations are about gray areas, is that Vlad's camp, rightfully so, is going to say, okay, he is an old decrepit man, though. Don't talk about it. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> He's 29. >> Okay, but that three years is a massive, massive gulf in terms of what you're talking about. And it's, again, I don't think this is the way it goes. But this is where agents are in their money. It's like, they are pitching Vlad as a not completed asset yet. Even the most, like, you can be Pied Alonso's parents and say, I think he's probably reached his ceiling. I think this is probably what he is, right? >> Yeah. >> Whereas Vlad, again, I've made up my mind. This is who he is. I think we've all made up our mind that this is who he is. But that's part of the negotiation is, is there still a little sintilla more there that you can get out of the player? And again, I don't think it's crazy to say. I don't think Vlad looks at Pied Alonso and says, yep, we're the same guy. >> No question. >> No, no, no. >> They both have four ulcer nominations. It's like, oh, Vlad, he has a gold glove. He does have the silver slugger. So, you know, that's MVP season was special. He deserved that. And I'm not taking that away from him. But I think we also look at that season differently in the kind of cold light of day. Mine of league parks, yada, yada. >> With the exception of batting average and on base percentage in that 2021 season. >> Yeah. >> You know who's still on a season by season basis, season over season best on best if we compared the two. You know who has more homers in a single season? Pied Alonso. More RBI in a single season. Pied Alonso. We're talking about Vlad's peak. The apex of what we've seen we've seen from him as an MVP candidate. Again, he hit 311 that year. I get it. Pied Alonso's not going to hit 300. But if we're just wrong, statistical output, give me the power, show me the offense. That guy, even in some of his not down years, but even in an average year from Pied Alonso, he still has produced more home runs and more RBI than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. I think it's a very apt and appropriate comp. I think it's fitting that we're having this discussion when Pied Alonso is due to get paid because if we wasn't there and there was nobody else to point to at that position, I think you'd be like the conversation. I mean, in this conversation, it would be pretty interesting to see the chasm in terms of how the J's perceive the value of the player and how Vlad perceives his own value or more so his can. And it feels like maybe the guy, the one saving grace, the conduit that can help bridge that gap is whatever Pied Alonso gets. But maybe you reward him slightly more because there will be more terms so the number will be bigger. But that should provide, in my opinion, a pretty decent middle ground and an understanding of where you should be starting this conversation. So with the decision is important as, and again, this isn't just about Vlad, but extending a player, the contract offer and making him face the franchise, all that, that's going to happen if you want to do this. How much does the calendar matter? We've talked about this, the idea that it is entirely possible, the first big, sexy announcement, and makes is going to be Vlad's extension. That is not out of the realm of possibility. But does Pied Alonso not feel a lot like Cody Bellinger last year to where people are going to sit there and free agency and go, okay, like, I know, I understand. You're the best there is. And no, I totally got it. You're the best there is available and free agency. But just because you're the best available doesn't mean we have to pay you like it. And it's going to be a game of chicken. He's eventually going to get his money, be it with the Mets, be it with some team of that ilk. But I think that's the other thing that's going to complicate this. I agree with you. If you're the J's, unless you're dying to have the piece of good news out there or you think he's some exceptional recruiter and him being happier allows you to do that. I don't know exactly how that works. I think guys tend to follow the money in this sport. In all sports. So I don't know how much that plays into it. But if you're the J's and you and Vlad, you're having conversations, do you just want to end up spinning your wheels? Do you wait till again entirely possible January when this happens and then we're having these conversations all winter long? I think that's the thing that's going to kind of complicate this because as soon as I hear Elanzo's name, I just go back to the Bellinger free agency from last winter. Yes. I think that's a very fair point to raise and it's important to acknowledge it because we've seen this now. Not just one off season. Like this is becoming a recurring theme with free agency and off seasons where the top end of the free agent class is getting stuck waiting for months on end to try and find a deal. And then, you know, the ones that are really suffering most. The position players, even if they have to wait till two weeks before the spring training to sign, it's not as big a deal. The pitchers are getting screwed over here big time. Look at Blake Snow, right? Look at Jordan Montgomery, who are the top two guys in the class, they complete it through their entire 2024 season for a loop. They haven't been productive whatsoever. They haven't been able to stay healthy. And part of that is, heck, you know, spring training kind of actually matters in terms of the ramp up process. Who knew? But when it comes to first basement, so let's maybe if we view it this way in terms of AAV, right? So right now in Major League Baseball, Freddie Freeman is first. He's got a $27 million salary on average per season. True. Number two. And you wouldn't, this one is kind of surprising because we wouldn't have, you wouldn't throw this name out there. But Cody Bellinger, 26.7 million dollars and he had to wait three year deal from the Cubs. And he was sitting there stuck waiting for months before he finally got a deal, which ended up being, all right, I guess I'll go back to the Chicago Cubs. Yeah. You know, it worked out pretty well on the one year deal I took previously where I was able to re-establish my value as a player. And then we go a little bit further like Chris Bryant, that's a bad contract. Paul Goldschmidt signed at a different time. Now here we get to you mention Matt Olson, $21 million a season. Bryce Harper, $25 million a season. Pete Alonso was seventh on this list of 20, 20.5. So where does Vlad factor it? Yeah, and he's at what? He won his ARB case at 9.6. It's 99. He's now, that puts him at number nine in baseball at the position. So as he go from being the number 9th highest paid player at the position to being top three, even though his production isn't commensurate with the production of those players inside the top three of the highest paid at the position, like that is a real discussion that needs to happen. Like the market always gets reset generally. But if you're the team and you're trying to get the best possible deal, you can point and actually have tangible examples. You can say, well, he's not, he's not Freddie Freeman. So there's no way we're paying $27 million a season. He's like, again, Matt Olson kind of has a bit of resume. Yeah. So he's going to get, he signed a long-term deal where he's making $21 million a year. And why would we pay more? And then there's Bryce Harper, who was the most, one of the most highest, highest, one of the most highly touted marquee free agents in recent memory. He's going to pay 25 million a year. So Vlad, how can we, how can we feel comfortable making you the second or third highest paid first baseman in the sport? That's sort of where they as in a front office are going to be in a very interesting predicament and trying to determine what do we think his actual value is? Like, who is he as a play? Well, and can you have, and again, I think the player is so happy here that I don't, I think they would have to get pretty contentious for this to be an issue. But what does it do to the relationship when inevitably, whether this happens in season, it's not, or whether this happens in the off season, when one soda gets his 400 million or 500 million or 600, whatever that deal looks like. What does that do then to the negotiation? Because it's one thing now. Maybe the sides are exchanging figures, the ballpark, whatever. But once soda signs, there was a hard and fast. This is what it looks like right now. It's, it's up in the air. It's a what can be. It's a thing that's in the future. It's going to become concrete in the relative, you know, within the next six months or so here. That's not going to be one that lingers into January. I would imagine one soda is going to be done pretty quickly at the winter meetings, right? And once that happens, what does that do to the tenor of the conversations you have with Vlad? Because it's one thing to say like, hey, we think your Piedalonzo now and he's like, okay, home. I disagree, but fair. Sure. Right? I think that's probably the tenor of those conversations. That would 100% be the reaction. Yes. Okay. Okay. Sure. Fine. You know the guy that hit 50 homers? I don't think that's an insult. Right. I do want to just provide this call for when I mentioned Harper. It is important to note and remember when he signed his day, he was a right fielder and it was to be an outfielder as opposed to a first baseman, which is now a thing. He transitioned. So just context there. But regardless, still app because heck, it is now he is in the category of first baseman. One last point on this. This is mean to both guys because they played six and three games respectively, but Vladi batting a robust 136 in the playoffs. Pete Alonso, 300 with three hits and one of those is a homer in his three games. So again, like the smallest of small sample sizes, but it's going to get brought. We're doing compare and contrast between these two players. People will reference it. All right. Well, plenty more on Vlad coming up about 10 minutes time. John Marosi going to join us. Yes. I want to talk about this Jalen Brown story. Oh, this is true. This is hilarious. Amazing. So Jalen Brown, now, they're famous instances of like bad lip reading gone wrong. People think a person says something it's completely different. So do without what you will. Having said that, the Internet seemed pretty confident that Jalen Brown was sitting courtside at the NBA summer league game saying, nope, don't think he's a pro in reference to Bronnie James. And he's sitting with couple of WNBA players, Angel Reese, one of them. And then the other was his girlfriend. Oh, okay. Just like good job. Let me sneak that in there right now. Just strong work by you. That's some good company to kick. That is. Let me tell you what that is. That's a champion on and off the court. All right. They're dealt with that. Big winner. Big winner. God, he's so smart, too. What isn't he good at? Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I'm getting distracted here. Well, he's even good at this. What I'm about to reference. Somebody posts the video online. And instead of denying it. I know. This is the easily the best part of it. Jaylen Brown just says, it's a flex to have your son alongside you in the NBA. It reflects greatness and longevity. Bronnie has all the tools around him to be successful. I look forward to watching his growth. And again, this is just proof that Jaylen Brown actually is smarter than all of us because he walked the line perfectly. Oh, big time. He's like, kissed the ring of LeBron. Yes. The only thing he didn't do was make sure to get that in there. Well, not lying to all of our faces that that is 1000% what he was saying there. No question. And correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm pretty sure he is represented by Rich Paul. Okay. Well, I think I'm getting the thumbs up from as a party. I think so. I'm pretty sure he actually I'm just trying to make sure that that's the case. I could be mistaken there. But either way. I do. I because I noticed that even Rich Paul was asked about this yesterday. And he was trying to walk that line where he wasn't like insulting Jalen Brown. He's like, well, you know, everybody's entitled around opinion. But like we all think Ronnie's great. And it's like, okay, buddy, relax. Relax. I don't know if you saw this clip either gunner. This is from earlier. I think it was maybe over the weekend or early this year. J.J. Redick talking about. I did not. I did not. Man, do we have this clip? I had sent this over the other day. I wonder if you guys can pull this up. But you know, and it was something that everybody else is thinking. Right. He's just he's just had the guts and happened to get caught. But he's sitting courtside at their game on Monday night and happens to get caught in the moment of reflecting what the general public, what's the general sentiment has been about this player since the moment that he was drafted since the moment that he declared for the draft. Right. He's just he's just had the guts and happened to get caught. But he's sitting courtside at their game on Monday night and happens to get caught in the moment of reflecting what the general public. What's the general sentiment has been about this player since the moment that he was drafted since the moment that he declared for the draft. Because I actually don't think anybody, honestly, there aren't people within the basketball media sphere or the basketball world that have any genuine disdain for Bronnie. I don't think we know enough about him as a person to actually dislike him. But what we have grown to understand is we realize the best thing for him as a player, as a basketball player, forget the name on the back of the jersey, is probably still being college. And it's the idea that this is hard doing more damage to him than it is actually benefiting him. And I think that is problematic. And it sort of underscores what Jalen Brown alluded to there. He's not a pro yet. And he might be one day. But he's not right now. And it's sad. I feel for him individually as a human being. Because frankly, if his name wasn't James, if there was anything other than James, he is not standing out on that court. Yeah, yeah. Because he does not- Would he trade it? Would he trade it? Not a chance. This is where I have to get off the tracks. Like do I understand the idea of like this kid has a bullseye on his back? Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things he has that other kids don't have. One of them being an NBA job and a guaranteed contract for his second round pick. So I don't sit there and have disdain for the player or anything along those lines. But where we feel bad for him, that's where I got to get off. The other thing that I loved about this from Brown's perspective was him not being like, oh, guys, you should leave me alone. My privacy. You're sitting courtside at a Summer League game. You're Jalen Brown. You're a champion. You're the finals MVP. There's going to be a camera or two on you. So I just honestly, I thought it was hilarious. Like we're going to- It was so much fun. The Bronny James stuff is going to keep popping up and like I have to be honest. I just like flat out do not care what he is as a basketball player. I am here for the jokes. I want Anthony Edwards screaming in his face saying you're only here because of your daddy. I'm here. Do not care. Do not have decided to leave the NBA. Well, decided. Decided. Wow. And them deciding for him are very different things. I think if he had his brothers, he would be doing a lot of- That's what I mean. It would have been great. It would have been amazing. It's too bad we're not going to get to the experience. And I maintain it. You know, I know we shouldn't like talk about other broadcasters work, but God, Skip Bayless just finding new ways when he said, when he had the post of, he's already see more clutch out of Brownie Junior than he has in the game. I don't think so. Actually, no, actually. I take that back. No, please. At least not until after the deadline. All right. Speaking of the deadline in baseball, we're going to talk to Marosi on the other side of things when we continue here. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. Actually, no. Actually, I take that back. No, please. At least not until after the deadline. All right. Speaking of the deadline in baseball, we're going to talk to Marosi on the other side of things when we continue here. What are the J's going to do? How valuable is it to be the first to move whether you're a buyer or a seller and Vlad and his contract? What's that negotiation going to look like? Marosi joins us next on the other side. Fan Morning Show on Sportsnet 5-9 of the fan. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. Thanks for watching. We'll talk to Marosi on the other side of things when we continue here. What are the J's going to do? How valuable is it to be the first to move, whether you're on the other side of things. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next year. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week. to see him standing on the field among the best players in the world. And winning the MVP award was pretty special, pretty inspiring. I mean, I've had a chance to speak with Jared a couple different times and just really impressed by his authenticity and who he is and what he represents. So that for me was pretty special to watch. And I think too, just the amount of great pitching, I mean, the number of guys that came in and just dealt. I mean, we're at a time where we do see dominant pitching. It's unique. Last night probably was emblematic of where we are as an industry. Yes, there were eight runs scored, but they happened kind of in isolated pockets. And most people who came in were dominant. And that is sort of emblematic of the way that we often see games managed nowadays is that most of the guys that come in, they pitch really well with elite stuff and not for very long. And I think that's that's kind of the way that baseball exists nowadays. And it was pretty unique to watch it and see everything unfold as it did last night. Two of the most decisive moments, Sean, were home runs, which also speaks and is emblematic of what the game has become, which is the three true outcomes. And it speaks to the fact that in Major League Baseball this year, the batting average across baseball is 243, which was the lowest in Major League history going into the all-star break. So it was all reflected in that one game. Last night, it was almost a microcosm of what we've seen. I did want to specifically key in on Paul Skeen's for a second. And Gunner and I, Brent and I have been chatting about contracts a lot this morning, in particular to one, Vladimir O. Jr. But I do think this is interesting. We've seen with some young players and certainly with franchises that aren't necessarily the most, you know, I don't want to say prolific, but they're not generally the biggest spenders in free agency. We've seen them try to be very proactive in locking up young players. And I wonder where that leaves Paul Skeen's in all of this with the Pittsburgh Pirates. His situation might be a little bit different, but this is a team that historically has not been able to retain and keep some of their more marquee players, some of the players that they've drafted and developed and have had success with. So where does that leave Paul Skeen's in all of this as it pertains to his future? If with Pittsburgh and would there be an impetus if you're the pirate, should there be an impetus if you're the pirates to potentially have this idea that you want to go down the road of trying to discuss long term options with him, rather early in his tenure while he's still under team control for the foreseeable future? It's a great question. And I think that there will be interest from the pirates clearly. And this same owner, in this case Bob Nutting, he was there when they signed Andrew McCutchen long term. And that was probably the last contract of this type and idea. McCutchen was an MVP. I mean, he's, I realize Skeen's is a big name, but Andrew's been a big name in the game for a long time. And they did lock him up for a long term deal too. What I would say is unique about Skeen's is that as the number one overall pick, he already has his $9 million plus signing bonus there. He's now already going to make healthy money here in the in the arbitration structure. And this is a question only for over the Paul Skeen's and his family can answer. But if by getting the $9 million already, and then what he's going to be getting in in arbitration, does he consider that to be sufficiently big in terms of your first fortune as it were, which I think is sort of that thumbnail to say, okay, do you have enough life changing money already, such that you don't even need to worry about negotiating on a long term deal and that your comfortable just riding it out and then getting the free agency. And Lord knows what that number would be when you get there. I think that that to me is where the balance is. And I think that when you're the number one overall picks, and you're going to be making enough money through the year to year basis to certainly change your life at that point, that I think he may be able to just ride this out year by year and then try to set a record in free agency. Or if he has it desired to play close to the home in California in free agency, he's six years away from doing that. I think that that is probably the piece of it all that will be very, very interesting. I would not expect that he's going to sign an extension anytime soon, in my estimation. This is just, I will stress this as an educated guess on my part, but you look at it and say, given the way that it's happened for a lot of different players, that they might be able to say in different circumstances, it wouldn't surprise me if the pirates already had that conversation with them about the multi-year extension before even getting called up. That has happened. It happened with Jackson Shurio, with the Brewers, happened with Cole Keith, with the Tigers in the last six months to a year. It wouldn't surprise me if that conversation already happened in the off season or during spring training. Remember, he didn't make the team out of spring training. That may have already happened. He may have already said no. He may have already voiced his desire to just take it year to year unless they come to him with a really massive life-changing sum right now that's already well into the nine figures. He's in a pretty good situation. I'm not so sure that Paul Steves is going to rush into signing an extension, because especially with the bonus pool, being what it is, and if he's going to be rookie the year and who knows, maybe the Cy Young winner this season, he's going to start getting these additional bonuses in that structure, but he might not feel the urgency to sign an extension. He might just say, "You know what? I'm going to take my chances. I've already got a pretty good fortune as we're as we're talking right now." And he might end up just wanting to set a record six years from now, which probably is a pretty good strategy. Yeah, I was going to say, you can reference one, Mr. Cole Garrett on that one. I think we've all seen this playbook before. All right, we're talking contracts, John. I think you know where we're going next, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. We've been talking today about the interesting place, this contract negotiation. I mean, maybe you could say, already is happening, or is falling in, will eventually fall in. And it feels to me like there's going to be two bookends to this potential free agent off season here that could have a big impact on Vlad. And one end, of course, is Juan Soto. I imagine he gets his deal done relatively early on in this. But the other guy I was thinking about was Peter Lanzo. I can easily see a scenario where this plays out much like Cody Bellinger's off season did last year where, hey, eventually he gets his money. Maybe it's not the term he wants, but this also doesn't happen until January or deep into December. How do you think those two players specifically could potentially impact the contract negotiations the Blue Jays want to have or are having with Guerrero? It's a great question. I think in in Vlad's case, if you look at Lanzo, for example, he with him now in his free agent here, I think it's fascinating that he's basically now back in a position where the Mets are at a playoff spot right now. And I would be surprised at this point. I would be stunned, honestly, if there was any even whisper of a move of Peter Lanzo at the moment because of where the Mets are playing. So I think Boer's client, in the case of Lanzo, taking it into in the free agency, he might be someone that, to your point, is is unsigned deep into the off season. And I think if the Jays, let's say they keep Vlad through the season and don't trade him with the deadline, I still am someone who would not expect them to trade him in the next couple of weeks. And so let's say that Vlad is there and that there's an appetite, at least, to have more of a broader discussion on trading Vlad in the off season. I tend to think that if the Jays were actually proactive and really wanted to trade them, that's not one, but I mean, we're open-minded to doing it this off season, that that would happen earlier rather than later. I think that when, in my experience of covering big-time trades and how it all, how the calendar and the timing work, trades typically happen before the free agency does. In terms of the big-time signing, so if there's going to be a Vlad trade, in my experience, it would more likely happen in November, early December than it would January, because I think teams will say, "Listen, we've got to get this thing resolved because if we're not going to trade for Vlad, we want to be able to sign Peter Lanzo." And then with Juan Soto, certainly that could take, we've seen with Scott Boris and his clients again, Harper being one example, and Harper signed in February. I think in Soto's case, though, it really seems to me like he belongs in New York City. I just don't know what team yet, and I think this is where it becomes really interesting with Steve Cohen and the Mets. It becomes palatable for them to lose Alonzo if they get Soto, but maybe not necessarily, it's going to be hard for them to not get either of them from a fan-based perspective, especially after they put together a pretty good run here in the second half. And oh, by the way, Soto and Alonzo represented by the same agent. Got Boris. So he's going to know plenty about where everybody's desires are and what they want to do. I think it's so interesting. And for that reason, if the Jays are serious about being open to moving Vlad, I think that the best time to do it honestly would be the next two weeks. I'm not sure that they're going to do it, but the earlier the better. And then if they don't do it then fast forward to the offseason, they need to arrive at the GM meetings and say, "Listen, we're open-minded to moving Vlad. Listen to these astronomical sums that are being put out there on Alonzo and Soto. You industry would rather deal with us than Boris. Here's what we can do. Let's move forward." I do think that's the approach to take if they want to be proactive. Okay, so I just want to make sure I'm kind of hearing you right because I think a lot of people, and again, I just want to make sure I'm getting the right understanding of this. I think a lot of people are hearing, okay, keep saying trade a lot. What about sign? Do you think it is more likely that he is dealt this offseason than extended, John? Yes, I do. I don't think that there is the same ballpark right now. And I don't know that when you look at this, they've been trying to extend him for a long time. And they've worked on it. There was thought about it last offseason, didn't materialize. They went to an arbitration hearing. I do think that Vlad, truly, I think that he really loves playing in Toronto. I think that for the right price tag, right circumstance, I think that he would, I think he would stay. I just don't think that they are close on what that number would be. Because I think Vlad sees some of the astronomical sums that players are signed for. And I think you look at the Jayce probably would would be more along the lines of what what extensions were offered to Freddie Freeman by the by the Braves. And remember that that was not that long go. And basically, the idea was that that I think Freddie was offered something like 180 over six by the Braves before he signed with the Dodgers. It was it was in that general range. And that I think is is low of what what Vlad he would want. And I don't think that the Jayce, especially in these times without the team is performing. It just doesn't feel like for me that that this front office is going to be able to offer him, let's say 275 300. Some people like the Raphael Dever's level of extension. I just I don't see it. I just I don't believe that that's where they're comfortable going. And I think that's probably what it would take for the Jayce to to be able to keep him. So I do think I do believe as we speak right now in the 70 to July that a trade of Vlad is more likely than an extension. I think they're both certainly possible. I'm just not seeing any signals from either side to suggest that that an extension is getting closer or that where the Jayce offer would be is within the range of what Vlad would accept. I just I think a trade is is not by an astronomical amount. But I do think a trade is more likely than an extension for Vlad this off. Okay, just to throw one more thing into the equation here. So we understand the likelihood involved in those two scenarios. What about if we include the likelihood of him just being on the team in his walk here for the final year of the deal? Like how would we equal the enter that into the equation? Like if it's more likely he's traded than signed, is it more likely than all both of those that he is just a blue Jay into next season? How would you kind of put that in perspective with those other two scenarios, John? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I do think that that that possibility is certainly more realistic than him getting signed. And honestly, we're probably a little more realistic than him getting traded. I think it's close, it's close. But I think that that just sort of like status quo is still a quite likely result of all this. Whereas I think with bow, I just I tend to think that whether it's the change of scenery argument or just the way that things are trending, I do think there's a higher chance of bow getting traded than Vlad. Just what I've heard my sense of the situation, that's where I think this could go. And honestly, it wouldn't shock me if bow was traded the next couple of weeks. Even though he's not having a great year, there are teams, Dodgers, Guardians, that could certainly upgrade at shortstop and where I think he might find a better intermediate term home and maybe even a longer term home. I just that's what I'm seeing right now. I think with Vlad, it looks like even though the team is not playing great clearly, started the all star game last night, like things are still even in the short term world. They're still going pretty well with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Right now his performance is good. He started the all star game. I think he really enjoys it in Toronto. I think all these different things are are pointing towards Hey, if you can't extend them status quo, probably still okay, play it out for next year. And if they if they have a poor first half next season, you can still get a lot for them at the deadline. I would say next year that that's that's what I'm seeing with Vlad. Whereas in the case of a bow, things haven't been working that well. And I think that if a team like the Dodgers or Guardians comes up with it with a compelling offer or maybe one that includes bow plus an arm, the Clucci perhaps, I think that that type of a conversation has much more validity in terms of getting getting a player move now that I would say Vlad immediately. Okay, that's really interesting, John. As it pertains to bow, what does that look like in terms of the value he can net you back given the way he's performed this season because, you know, in essence, you'd be trading what is a depressed asset like you're not trading him at the peak of his powers and certainly what would probably be perceived as his highest value. So if you are making that decision potentially and that option is certainly still on the table for them, then what do you need to get back to make it reasonable enough that you can actually go down that road even with a guy that only has four homers on the season hasn't hit one and over, you know, nearly two months now and has, you know, objectively had a really, really poor season. What does it look like if you're from the J's perspective as that front office, what do you need to get in return to make it palatable enough to do that at this particular juncture? Well, and that I think that's the most important question of all right now, Daniel, because I mean, this, this is, this is a player that's been a batting champ level player all star and, and you're right. You're, you're selling them low if you move them right now. It's, it's difficult for me, honestly, to say that, that he should be able to get a top hundred prospect back right now if you trade them by himself. Now, if you, if you connect them to a, to a kukuchi, for example, I think then, then the return certainly would go up. But when you look at bow and, and, and the struggles right now, you kind of have to deal within the realm of the realistic and, and what's actually happened. And, and if it's sort of not working out right now for him in Toronto, you have to ask yourself, is it, is it going to get better? Is there any evidence that it would get better next year? Because the reality is you got a guy with, with an OPS, the moment that's under 600, a 596 OPS. And, and he's due next season to make about 17 and a half million dollars. Yeah. I mean, that's, when you, when you look at that, I always, at the, at the trade deadline, I always say this. I, I try to go back and say, if this player were a free agent after this season, what kind of contract would they sign? Which, by the way, is why guys like Gossman and Bassett are, are really appealing to teams because they're, they're priced fairly. If, if bow, if this were bows contract year, and he were entering free agency with a 600 OPS, you would say, wow, this guy's been really good in the past, but, but not so much now, probably going to have to sign like a one year, 15, 16 million dollar, one year, 12 million dollar prove it deal with some incentives just to prove that he can still do it. Well, that's basically what he's got. Okay. That's, that's what his contract says for next season. And so there's not really a ton of surplus value with him. You, you have to, if you're trading for bow right now, it's because you're seeing something on video and in your evaluation that says, with a change of scenery, new teammates, new vibe, he's going to, he's going to be a much better player. And, and that may well be correct. And it's, it was very intentional that I mentioned to you two teams, Dodgers and Guardians, do have really good cultures and really good groups, Guardians of the best record in the American League. The Dodgers have one of the best and strongest cultures of, of anybody in the sport. I think that there's a lot to like with those two fits. And so you can, you might be able to get like a fringy top 100 guy for him, but a 600 OPS, 600 OPS. I mean, he has not been good this season. No. And I think that you, yeah, you may have to attach him to a more desirable asset. I never thought I would have said those words about bow, but statistically, that's where we are right now. Yeah, boy, times have certainly changed. We could pick at that forever, but we are up against it. John, really, really appreciate the stuff today. Great stuff for me. Thanks for joining us always. Thanks so much, guys. Enjoy the conversation and have fun at the start of the second half. The Detroit Tigers visiting Toronto this week and give me great vibes and memories of the 1980s. So enjoy, enjoy the visit. There we go. There we go. A lot of angry dads in Southern Ontario this weekend. I'm Dard Tigers. That insider is brought to you by Dodd Valley, North Lexus, where you could expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. Again, a ton of great stuff from there on Marosi will pick it all back up on the other side. But Daniele, before we do that, it's time for the wake and break presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. It is open championship week. We've got coffee golf people. If you're a morning sicko like myself, you get ready to watch. Now we've got tournament winner odds, but I saw a couple of fun props that they just have to alert people to our friends, the sports interaction of cooked up a who will finish better. 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Bamborti show continues on SportsNet 590 the fan. a lot of people are going to be in the game.
