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Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast, that's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions applied. Come back, it's the Big Blue Band, your New York Giants football podcast, I'm Dan Schneier, joined as always Michael Znick-Folado, we're here to recap the second episode of the Giants Hard Knocks series, Nick. And you know, I'm just really excited about what's going down here with the Hard Knocks. I wanted to start by just saying this version of Hard Knocks for me, and yeah, it's the Giants, so maybe I'm a little biased. I may have said this on first episode. It's so much more interesting than the training game version of the Giants. I'm so much of Hard Knocks, like this is such so much more of what we want to learn about in my mind than like, oh, this guy's practicing well, or like just lame stuff that I feel like is just pretty obvious or just not all that telling. So I've really loved the insight that we've gotten this episode at my favorite, I guess excerpt of what we've had on either episode so far, which was the quarterback interviews that we're going to get into. I thought those were enlightening. So just an awesome, just an awesome, I guess insight into what goes down in the roster building process. Have you been enjoying it as much as I have? I have been. It's the behind the scenes look at what happens throughout the pre-draft process, and we always speculate. And I feel like we have a pretty solid understanding, at least generally speaking, on how these things occur. But just here, like Joe Shane, jump on the phone and be like, hey, Chris, I said, you see that the cap is actually more than we anticipated and now we can spend on all these free agents. And did you peak that, by the way? He was saying, I'm watching free agents right now. He was watching the Texans defense against the Ravens offense. I'm wondering who he was watching at that time. Just curious. Yeah, I don't know who he was watching at that time. If you're thinking about just the free agents on both sides of the ball there, maybe from the Texans defense, it might have been what he was looking at. I don't know exactly. There are a few players who are in the mix there, potentially be signed by the Giants, but it was cool to watch him grinding through the tape and trying to look for free agents there. Joe Minn also watched tape as well, so it's not like he didn't do that. That led him, I believe, to the Patrick O'Mame signing. He saw something he liked on the tape there, despite obviously not working out for the Giants. But hopefully, Joe Shane's tape grinding goes a little further. I thought before we get into the nitty-gritty of the episode, Nick, I thought it was really interesting to consider one little moment that maybe passed over many and they didn't really put too much time or thought into. And it was the conversation between Joe Shane and Shane Bow and the Giants defense coordinator. I think there's such a stark contrast to what the Giants are doing now on the defense side of the ball versus what they were doing with Wink Martindale. When Wink Martindale was here, the prioritization was on cornerbacks and winning through coverage. And now it seems like it's just going to be so different. From the very first episode, we saw Shane Bow and Breakdown as the defense he discussed. We were going to win with the front four. And then on our knocks, Joe Shane shifted the focus there. And basically said, they were exploring signing Christian Wilkins to add to the front. And we'll talk more about that a little later. We're trading for Brian Burns to add to the front. And then he said, well, if we do that, I can play corner. And I think it just goes to show how different this Giants defense is going to be schematically. And both-- and not only just schematically, but just how they plan to win this year. It's a very different idea and it's a very different mindset of how to win football games on the defense side of the ball. And maybe it can quell some of the concerns about what they've done at corner by just having such a strong defensive line. That's what we hope, right, it's going to be split field coverage is going to be a stark contrast to your point from Wink Martindale's single high heavy press man coverage is going to be more off outside leverage. It's going to be more safety. These are going to be basically playing man coverage once the routes are declared. We've been talking about this all off season going to be a lot less blitzing, going to be a lot less five man pressure packages, to be a lot less six seven man pressure packages or whatever the Giants would do with Wink Martindale that was just wild and crazy. They're going to need an edge rusher from a wide angle who can stress and corner at the top of the pass rushing arc. That's what Brian Burns is. Now you have Dexter Lawrence to create the interior pressure. Hopefully we get another year of development from cave on tibido where he can take. I would say another step. I'm pleased with cave on tibido, but I'm not pleased with cave on tibido, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, I think that's part of what and we'll discuss this a little bit more in a bit when we get into it. But I think it's part of why, you know, you know, let's get into it right now, Nick. Let's get into the idea of the Giants, obviously in this episode, made it clear that they were looking strongly at Christian Wilkins in frequency, defensive tackle for the dolphins, good friend of Dexter Lawrence. I think they're actually the best friends. Would you have preferred the route the Giants went, which is you trade this who you trade the five. So you don't have your second pick that was 39 overall. So you can consider it Nick by looking at the players who were selected around 39 overall, players selected at after 39 overall, Giants would have then had one of those players next Nick and you could kind of take your pick of who you would like there. We're going to go with that not versus what we think the Giants would have done just you take your pick type of thing. So now you get Christian Wilkins and that around the same price because Christian Wilkins would have signed a contract pretty similar to what the Giants gave Brian Burns, despite being an interior guy versus an edge or Brian Burns. What would you have preferred? I think I would prefer Brian Burns I'm pulling up the 2024 NFL draft at the moment. Christian Wilkins look he had no more than 33 pressures in any season up until last year where he had 61 and he kind of burst it onto the scene. Everyone knew who he was before that, but he was like a BJ Hill, maybe a little bit better than a BJ Hill type of player and now he's a top defensive lineman. And it would have been cool to reunite him with Dexter Lawrence's former teammate, one of his best friends, but Brian Burns, what Brian Burns can offer specifically to Shane Bowen's scheme I feel like is more valuable than what Christian Wilkins can offer. Now question is, is it more valuable than a second round pick? I think I lean Brian Burns, though. I do believe it is close. I think having that dominant edge rusher that can dictate protection along with Dexter Lawrence, along with cave on tibido, possibly as these usual are, is more important than another defensive lineman who's not necessarily a commanding interior defensive pass rusher. Can rush the passer doesn't have the potential to be, I think, the top one in the league, whereas Brian Burns, is he TJ water miles, Garrett? No, but he can get up to like the top five, he at least has that potential and that ceiling and with Dexter Lawrence, the possibility of that ceiling being reached is enhanced. So I'm going to lean towards Brian Burns, but I do think it is a good discussion. What are your thoughts? So I can go and I'll let you look at it after a few wants you or decide. But for me, I'll pinpoint as if we had done the other route, which is signed Christian Wilkins for a similar price and kept that pick. It would have been Cooper Dijean for me at 39 overall. And if it's Cooper Dijean for me at 39 overall, I'm leaning toward using Dijean as a nickel within Shane Bowen's defense or similar role to what they're projecting for Drew Phillips, who they took in the third round. So now in my scenario, I have Cooper Dijean, Christian Wilkins, and then instead of Drew Phillips in round three, I have either Christian Haines to play guard or I have Cooper BB to play guard. So now I have that on my offensive line as well. So I've added Cooper Dijean and I've lost Drew Phillips and I've lost Brian Burns and I've added Christian Wilkins, Cooper Dijean, and let's say I preferred Cooper BB of that. So let's say Cooper BB, though it was close on those two. So it doesn't matter Haines or BB. I still prefer the Brian Burns side of this despite getting all of that out of the other side. For me, it comes down to this, you know, I need to watch more. I mean, I don't have the opportunity to and I know you don't either to watch film of every player in the NFL on every team. That's an impossible task. But I do tell you this all the time, Nick. I learn exes and knows through people like you and people who, you know, other people in your way that know it as well as you have doing breakdowns. And I stumbled upon about three, four months ago a great exes and knows breakdown of Christian Wilkins against the Chiefs in the playoff game and to be quite frank, he was dominated in that game by the chief's interior offensive line and the chiefs have really good players on interior offensive line, but that would never happen to Dexter Lawrence. It would just quite point like never happened to Dexter Lawrence. He doesn't get dominated like that, taken out of the game. He was taken out of that game, Christian Wilkins, supposed to be a star interior guys, taken out of the game against the chiefs in the playoffs. And I don't want to pay that kind of money and allocate that kind of salary gap space to a player who can be taken out of the game in the playoffs. So I don't personally want to allocate that much money to Wilkins. I don't think he's as good as everybody else does. I lean toward what Chris Rosetti said in the first episode of Hard Knocks. He doesn't believe he's a true difference, making a pass rusher. I agree with him on that. And so I would much rather allocate that money to Burns, who I believe in, have I watched all of Burns's tape on Carolina? No, but we've watched enough and we trade a firm. We watch tape. I watched tape of him at Florida State, where I absolutely loved him. He was one of my favorite players in that class. I thought he should have been in the mix for the pick at six. Assuming at the time, I thought Josh Allen would come off the board, the pass rusher, Josh Allen, he was on the board, but I was like, Burns is so good, he deserves to be in the mix at six. That's how high I wasn't him. You can find the suites about it. And actually, Brian Burns's brother reached out to me during that draft process. Like, thank you so much. It's so crazy to see when that type of stuff happens, but you're like, to reach out to me is like, thank you so much. You were in my brother's corner this whole time. It's just so weird that like, your tweets reach these types of people, but you know, and I think he's maybe not reached his potential yet with the Panthers, but it could happen with Shane Bowen. I think that's expectation. And you throw the third thing on here, Nick, which is the impact that's going to have on Cave on Thibodeau, having that relief of having a pass rusher like that on the other side of him, consistently winning, consistently getting those double teams and the attention, the offensive line and the, and the often coordinators, that to me is more valuable than what Christian Wilkins brings. So I lose Cooper to Jean. I lose Cooper, BB. I gain back Drew Phillips and I get Brian Burns to me. This is what I would prefer. Look, Dexter Lawrence had a 71% double team rate last season. He's getting double teamed all the time. Teams construct rosters to defeat the teams in their division. This is something we've discussed for years, right? Philadelphia Eagles have only allowed, I believe, nine pressures to Dexter Lawrence and no sacks over the last two seasons. It's not great because he has Jason Kelsey, Landon Dickerson, and those guards. They can all prioritize Dexter Lawrence and even keep five, five men in because you have Lane Johnson and you have Jordan Myalata to handle Cave on Thibodeau, Cave on Thibodeau's not quite there yet. But when you do use space to your advantage as a defense in obvious passing downs, first you got to get to those obvious passing downs. And you force those tackles to kick out in the space to cut off the angle of Brian Burns. And by adding Brian Burns, it adds a speed element. Now those tackles are really good, right? Those tackles are really good. You're still probably going to get double teams on Dexter Lawrence. But you're going to need a tight end. You're going to need a running back probably kept in there with the speed of Brian Burns with the explosiveness of Brian Burns, even against those top tackles. He certainly enhances your ability to rush the passer and force the quarterback to step up into the pocket where Dexter Lawrence and whoever else is rushing the passer is. Brian Burns is his impact as a pass rusher is already two steps ahead of where Cave on Thibodeau is. And if Cave on Thibodeau can take another step, if you can take that another step, you're talking about a pass rush that can be dominant. If you could just force second in eight situations or third in six situations and have those guys pin the earth back, you don't need to bring those extra guys. You don't need to bring them. You can allocate them and coverage. You can bring forward and you can get home. We said this last year and we were wrong, Dan. We were wrong. But our train of thought was correct. And if the Giants offense didn't suck so badly, we would have saw it a little bit more often. This Giants pass rushing squad has the ability to be top 10 in the league. If they are put into a situation where they can rush the passer a little bit more, Ryan Burns. He is the closer to that. He is the Mariano Rivera to the pass rushing group, Brian Burns when it's third in eight, you need to play Brian Burns, pins his ears back, he goes, you can slant him inside to help take advantage of the fact that teams are double teaming Dexter Lawrence so much as well. I think there's just a lot you can do with his specific skill set as a pass rusher. You just need to put your team collectively New York Giants in a position where rushing the passer is paramount all throughout the game through four quarters, Dan, not just in the first half. Well, that's a great point because, you know, that will unfortunately depend on the offense. The offense has to keep the Giants in games. Winning football games would even be better if the Giants can give the defense a few, how 14 point leads, 10 point leads, 20 point leads every once in a while. And by every once in a while, I mean, hopefully often, I mean, that's the goal, right? Then the pass rush comes alive. Part of why we didn't see the pass rush last year is because they were playing from behind so often and teams are running the ball on them and grinding clock because we're throwing quick hitting stuff because they don't need to take shots down the field because they're ahead in the game because the Giants offense is pathetic. That has to change obviously for the pass rush to come alive. No pass rush can thrive in the NFL from a statistical standpoint without an offense. Just does not how it works. If you're behind in games, you don't rush the passer. So you're right about that. But I do think ultimately Brian Burns, like I watched him at the pass rushing summit show off some of like his technique and his moves, I think ultimately he adds like a different level to me than what Christian Wilkins could have offered. That's just what I've seen from Wilkins. I need to watch more Wilkins to get definitive. But again, watching that tape against Casey, that breakdown against the Chiefs, it was not something I would want to allocate 25 million a year to. And I think there could even be some regret there. I'm not saying there will be. We'll see what happens there. I just don't feel that way with Brian Burns. All right, let's get to the crux of the show, or at least what I thought was the best part of the show. And that was the quarterback interviews, Nick, and there's a lot more to them back after that. They went back to the Barkley stuff, the trade, trade talks with New England. We're going to get to all that. But let's start with them interviewing quarterbacks at the combine and let's start with your notes or let's start with the Giants notes going into the whole thing, right? Because I thought this was really important. The scouts gave notes on each quarterback and then Brian Dable used those notes that were handed to him and then asked questions to these quarterbacks and framed the interviews of the quarterback based on the notes he got, which I thought was super interesting. So Nick, you want to go over real quick what notes the Giants got or Brian Dable got from these area scouts? Yeah, the area scouts Scott Hamill with Jayden Daniels, some of his notes where he's not a vocal leader, but he improved in his final season. Mind you, he was like 23, I think in his final season. So it's a little bit easier to be a vocal leader. Obviously he had his stint at Arizona State and then he went to LSU. He seemed to question his recall, which was very important because when Brian Dable was interviewing him, he asked him like, oh, so how do you decompress basically, like how do you decompress if your team, if you're struggling in the media's app, you how do you decompress? And Jayden Daniels, you know, I talked to my family, he's like, oh, what was that play call that I mentioned to you before and Jayden Daniels kind of got it. It was, he seemed to fumble with some of the verbiage, Jayden Daniels, a little bit when it came to the recall. So it seems like Scott Hamill's assessment of Jayden Daniels was spot on. Patrick Hanscom was the area scout for Drake May. I actually met Patrick down at the, at the senior bowl and I talked with him for a little while. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. He said he had a very similar personality to Daniel Jones, no issue with the football character and the mental side is certainly a plus that was substantiated when, when you got to see Drake May repeat what Brian Dable was asking him at the whiteboard. And then we had Blaze Bell, the area scout for Caleb Williams, who mind you, Caleb Williams, when he was walking up to the, in one of the scenes, he's walking up and then there's a scout next to him in Atlanta Falcon Scout. That's my boy, Dante Farnioli. I was at the scouting academy with him. I'm so proud of him. He was like the Reese's senior bowl assistant director under Jim Negi and before that Phil Savage. And I saw FaceTime, I said, I'm a pitcher, I was like, yo, bro, you're getting famous over here. So so happy for him. But it's Caleb Williams and the scout again was Blaze Bell. He said, they quite like the kind of question, the fact that the New York Giants were playing such a big market. It seemed like Caleb Williams loves football is what they said, but he didn't talk after the UCLA game, and they questioned how we can handle adversity. Brandon Prophet with JJ McCarthy said he's young. He had liberty to check at the line of scrimmage and kill plays, but the offensive line was the one who set the protections and set the point for the run game. But JJ had the ability to override all of the, what the offensive line set. So they were just kind of questioning how much he would be able to handle at the line of scrimmage at the NFL level. Can he do all of those things? Why was the offensive line doing it? But they, as I said before, acknowledge the fact that he's a very young player. Yep. And that's what the area scouts gave Dave. Well, so now let's get into the actual interviews that we saw with the quarterbacks. And we're going to get to more like there, there were area scouts comments on Ramu Dunes and neighbors from Hannah Burnett and Scott Hamill. Hannah Burnett was kind of like the star scout of the show. I feel like for the Giants, they gave her a lot of airtime, which was cool. She seemed like, you know, a pretty cool scout there. And same with all the other scouts there, they really seemed to me like when you got to know them at that dinner, which we'll get into at Saint Elmo, like they really put in a ton of work into this. Yeah. You haven't been out to the combine. I do. No, unfortunately. So St. Elmo's is a huge thing in the scouting community. It's something every year when people go out to, and I haven't been out to Indianapolis, but I've heard St. Elmo's reference so many damn times because of that shrimp cocktail. That's so good, man. Like mixed in that fire. Yeah, fire. I want that. If we ever get out there, we got to, we got to hit that up. It's, are you, you give a hot stuff? Oh, I love hot. Yeah. I love hot sauce, I love hot food. It's good. I'm a pro specialist. We should just go out there this year, Nick, and just screw it and we'll work from there, do whatever we have to do from there. We said it over here, and then we don't. So I want to actually do it. Yeah, we should do it. We should, I'm not even kidding. We should do it this year. We'll talk about that off the pod, but we'll get into some of what they said about the receivers. So let's get into the actual conversations that we were able to see at least with these quarterbacks in the interviews. So let's start with, actually, I want to get into one thing actually before that, a general point, and then we're going to get into individual, something Chase Daniel, former quarterback. Now he's an analyst. I believe with underdog does a really good job, in my opinion, bringing that stuff. This is before we get into the specifics, a general point he made after he watched hard knocks. He said, one thing is clear from these quarterback interview clips, the combine with giants, this is 100% Dable's offense and not Cathy's. I don't recognize any of the anti-re terminology. And he said, Dable is running the show in New York and you're talking about gun Charlie right, 64 house X in, gun dolphin right, 72 Tundra float H angle. Those are specific ones that he said, look, none of this is from the anti-re terminology. Does that surprise you at all? No. Okay. Yeah. No, that doesn't surprise me. I think we worked under the assumption that it was Brian Dable's offense this entire time. We talked about that back in 2022 and Mike Cacko would come in and add elements of what Andy Reid taught him, basically, to this offense. But the framework and the foundation of this offense was always Brian Dable. And I wonder if, I'm not saying this is the case, Nick, but I'm wondering if the fact that we're going to get most likely Brian Dable calling the plays this year from his offense with his terminology shows more of like, you know, we'll provide more of like synergy, right? Like Brian Dable, it's his offense, his terminology. He's calling the plays rather than Kafka trying to interpret it and call it in the way that he's calling it. I wonder if that adds anything to the offense or could potentially add efficiency. I don't know, but it's just something to consider because it was interesting when I heard that doesn't surprise me with Chase Daniels said, but it is, it is just like confirmation, I guess, to what we were assuming, which is this is Brian Dable's offense. And he's going to have his own way of interpreting it and we're going to see it this year. We may have saw that last year and put the tin foil hat on again. It seemed like Brian Dable may have took over play calling at some point last year. I'm wondering if that was during the three game winning streak. It's interesting. Possible. It's possible. We don't know. That's all speculation and it's possible though. Let's start with the, we're going to get into each of these interviews. We're going to get a little bit into Jaden Daniels interview, Caleb Williams interview, Drake May interview and J.J. McCarthy interview. Let's start with the Jaden Daniels interview. So I want to start first by what happened before any of these interviews. I think it was before the Malik interview where Brian Dable was like, I spent all day watching LSU and I love this kid and Joe Shane goes, what do you mean? Brian Thomas or neighbors, neighbors, he's snap answers, neighbors. I also thought it was interesting. He didn't really say anything about the quarterback. Jaden Daniels or the quarterback play at all there. And that's not to say, everyone include it. They might have not included it. But when we got to the Jaden Daniels interview, I wasn't personally all that impressed by it. Nick, again, he put him in front of the whiteboard. He had him put out a play. When he asked him to recall it the first time, Jaden Daniels starts to peek toward the board and Brian Dable was like, no, don't look at the board, just tell me what you got. And he spits it back out and it's, he's got something missing there, right? So then Brian Dable asked him a question about how you deal with adversity, kind of trying to like, as a, like he's setting something up where he's going to ask him again to see his recall. And remember what the scout told him before this interview that he struggles with recall Jaden Daniels. And he asked him how he's going to deal with adversity. I didn't really love his answer there either. Like, oh, I dealt with it at LSU. It's fine. Dude, Baton Rouge, Baton Rouge media ain't anything like the New York media. It's not even remotely even close. It's fine to answer it that way or whatever, but I'm just saying that ain't going to prepare you for what's going to come with the New York media. Just ask players like Mark Sanchez, Sam Darnell, like all the other, you know, quarterbacks who have come through this place, Daniel Jones, whoever you want to ask, Eli Manning. But then he asked him to recall it again and he gets it wrong again. It's one little detail, but he gets it wrong again. And so then he says, you know, put up the play, what are you going to go? What's the read here? And the read is, the answer from Jaden Daniels is I'm just going to throw a touchdown. Like, it was funny, Brian Dable's like, I like that. It was funny. It was cool. But it wasn't really the right read or answer. Like, it's not really what you want to hear. And it didn't sound anything like what I heard from Diego Williams when he asked him to break down his best play that he could come up with. That was a really cool breakdown for anything from Drake made him drink, maybe spitting off bang, bang, bang, bang. So I don't know. I didn't come away loving that Jaden Daniels interview. No, not that did I, but it was a one minute snippet of a probably like a 20 minute interview. He could have been a little bit more impressive. I'm wondering if the giant's like, I, this guy's in our division now, let's make them look like. No, but it certainly, yeah, that was the most unimpressive interview. Of the ones that we saw, but the giant's also have editorial control as we brought up. And now he's in the division. Who knows? We don't know. I will say this about Daniels. If he makes it in the NFL, I think it will be based off of just these two things. One is ridiculous, obviously, physical ability, both as a thrower and runner, mostly as, you know, both to what Joe Burrow said on a recent interview I heard with him on part of my take. He doesn't do any podcasts. There's like one part of my take boxes and he and burrow pointed to what I've always thought about Jane Daniels, that effortless throwing motion, that type, when you have that kind of throwing motion and you could watch Daniels, go ahead, watch him after this and watch the other quarterbacks that came out, that style throwing motion, that quick effortless smooth release, that could work in the NFL because it beats past rushes and it beats a lot of the issues that come up with quarterbacks. So that could all work, but I got to tell you, man, like, I'm, I'm, this is the least, I'm constantly, like, if they're watching and gotten Drake, man, instead of Jane Daniels, I'd be way, way, way more concerned personally about the future of this division. That's just me personally. So what I, if Jane Daniels didn't have Cliff Kingsbury as his offensive coordinator, I would be a little bit more concerned as well. Yeah, that's another problem for him though. Some of you that is a positive, I guess, as a fit. I don't personally, I don't like what Cliff Kingsbury did with Caleb Williams's offense. I don't like what he did with the Kyla Murray offense. I don't like what he did with the Patrick Mahomes offense at Texas Tech where they want seven games and lost seven games somehow with Patrick Mahomes. So I don't know, but I agree with you on that. We're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search "match" with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed Data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busy work, use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use Indeed, the better it gets. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great, talent fast. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit. To get your jobs more visibility, head indeed.com/bluewire. Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. It's indeed.com/bluewire. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Ever feel sluggish or out of focus? Are you stressed? Has your digestive system caused discomfort or flatulence like a certain co-host on this podcast during a live stream? If so, you should check out AG1. When I started drinking AG1 daily, I could feel a real difference in my daily health. 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Obviously, the area scout, and by the way, these area scouts are kind of nailing what was going to happen. They're like, "Jane Daniel struggles to recall Drake May is going to be perfect from a mental standpoint. Like, you know, he's going to have great." And he just spit it back off at Brian Dable, and even like little things that Brian Dable is trying to kind of trip him up on, he just had it ready to go and just in my mind was advanced from the mental standpoint. Well, yeah, of course, Drake May, your point absolutely stands, but these area scouts, they go to these places and they talk with a bunch of different people. They have so much inside information on these prospects, on these players, and they watch all of the tapes. So they're going to have those types of notes available to them. And Drake May, yeah, he was dialed in to say the least. He was able to recite exactly what Brian Dable wanted him to recite. It seemed, and it's so funny then, because let's go back to the pre draft process. What did we hear about Drake May? That's my point. We heard the opposite. Like New York, look, New York Giants fans, big blue banter listeners. Welcome to me for a second. Next year, when we hear smokescreens that seem to deviate from the consensus that was already established, take it with a grain of salt, because we heard Drake May to terrible on the interviews and the Giants were so unimpressed. That was the rumor that we all heard. Did it seem that way, according to hard knocks? And why would that rumor might be out there? Would it be? Why would that rumor be potentially really interested in trading up for Drake May and trading, getting Drake May on the roster? Oh, no, maybe it's not that, according to some fans. It seemed that way when Joe Shane went over to Elliot Wolfen was like, you know, you know. No, that was trading up for Joe All, Nick. He was just trying to get involved. They weren't the wide receiver to drop. Come on, guys. Get a grip with that type of stuff. It's right in front of your face. But far, Drake May goes. I also heard in the pre draft process, not just from the Giants, from other people that this is just a physical talent. This is just something you got to use so raw, you got to develop. And then I heard Chase Daniel, I believe, either Hayden Winks and Josh Norris or Chase Daniel and Josh Norris break down the tape of Drake May and show the intricacies to his processing from a mental standpoint, which I had already seen on tape and you had seen on tape, but was opposite of what we were told that he's just raw. And I agree. The footwork was an issue. Like those are physical traits that can be worked on. But the processing you could see on tape, you could see him work through reach. You can see him problem solved after the snap. That's always what impressed me a lot about Drake May. Not the most, his arm down, the rest of the most, and his willingness to fit tight windows. But it was in this competitive nature, but it was the processing you see post snap, the problem solving that was there on tape. And I'm glad that it was obvious when you put him in front of a whiteboard how fast he can process information. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I know we're talking about the quarterback real quick, but I have a really important question I have to ask you about hard knocks episode two. Do you think Brian Dable can run a subset? Oh, we're going to get to this. We're going to get this. We can get to it now. So I'll say this. We don't have much of a point of reference to work with a point of frame reference to work with. And after this, I'm going to ask you if we think if you think me and you can run a sub seven, which I hope we can, that you think we easily can, I believe you easily can. I would hope I can. I could probably run a, I might be able, I would, I can run a sub five. You thinking you're on a sub five? I don't think I can run a sub five. I'll tell you that. I weigh 170, I just weighed myself. I'm trying to lose a little bit of fat. I weigh 176 pounds. So I think it would be a lot tougher for me. When I was 155, like in high school, I could, I think I could beat a sub five. Nowadays, dude at 35, like with 176 on me, I don't know if I can, a lot, it's not great. It's not great for five foot eight, but I want to get down to like 170 again, like back in the 160s where I can, then I think I could have it again. But sub seven is, is, is probably do very doable, but for you yet, for Brian Dable. Brian Dable in his fifties at that weight that he was at the combine, because remember, he's probably lost like 40 pounds since the house. Yes. Of course. Like, here's our only frame of reference. Shout out Justin panic friend of the show. We've had him on. He's been on our, he ran the combine, I believe in a six, three, three this year, six, three, four. Now he's also lost a good amount of weight. Shout out Justin panic. Good job on you. Just that. But, and he's growing out of beard now, by the way, it looks good. I like that beard on Justin. He should keep going with the beard. Look my, my, my boy. But he ran at six, three, three. He runs at six, three, three. I, I gotta say, and this is not enough, Justin. So don't take this way that I think Brian can run it sub seven. I don't. Okay. Maybe now. Definitely not the combine. Maybe now. I'm going to say no though. I'm going to say. Scout certainly didn't. And Joe Shane and the rest of them just laughing at him essentially. Yeah. Maybe that's why you lost the weight. You just got to. Got that. Honestly. Keep in the. No one knows the reason why he went this hard on losing weight. That probably was it. He was so offended. He's like, F you guys. He was so pissed. They're like kidding me. F you guys. He was like, not happy with that. He felt very slight. And Brian did slighted Brian Dable. What a rich eyes and running. It doesn't reach eyes and running around the question. What? He's in decent shape. Let's see. Rich eyes and 40 yard dash for 2024. I am curious if he, if he beat it. He had to have, right? Like, rich eyes is not running a seven plus rich eyes and ran in 625. 625. Yeah. But like, Brian Dable was a bigger guy. Yeah. But here's the thing. No one's considered, right? Brian Dable was a high school athlete. I was not, you know, no offense just in panic was not rich eyes and was not like I'm football player. You know, this is a guy who was an athletic football guy, dude, back in the day. I know he's older. I know he's in worse shape, but like he should be able to run it faster than rich eyes and in me and just in panic. All right. Brian Dable, three weeks to train for it and maybe he'll be training, you already go out and do it. Ah, see, that's tough though, man. You pull shit at that age. 50. You just go out and you sprint for the first time and how long obviously you can stretch. You can stretch. It doesn't matter, man. Your muscles need to get worked up. But when you're at that age, when you're in your family, yeah, and sure, unless he's working out, I don't know how he lost the weight, even if it was to be a working out and diet or if it was just a zempic based, because I think that's the road. I mean, a lot of people are just zemping around these days, dude, did you hear about the dude in Hollywood? I started this on part of my take. Some famous guy in Hollywood was taking a zempic and got diarrhea and a Hollywood party and shadow all over the place, which is hilarious. Apparently there's diarrhea incidents that come from the ozempic stuff. You can afford ozempic. He doesn't need to go on the lizzo. I'll never take a zempic. I just, if I need to lose weight, dude, I'm just trying to do it the hard way. But to those who want to, I don't blame anybody for trying it, but like it could, who knows how he lost, but if he's working out to lose the weight, also running and stuff, I think he's probably in better, like a better shot to break that sub seven than people realize. I don't know. I'm saying he's going to break it. But let's get back on track here. Let's go. Let's go. Yeah. What's up with the heavy focus on Sam Hartman again? Oh, your voice. Sam Hart. I know, dude. Sam Hartman got heavy face time and I appreciated the band handsome guy. And then Xavier, this is one thing I was like, all right, I get it. He broke the combine records, Xavier worthy, but they spent like five minutes on it to the point where I'm like, I think the giants are deliberately adding this stuff so they don't need to show more of their process. They're deliberately adding NFL type of shit, so they don't really need to show what's going on behind closed doors just to fill up the 40 minutes. I think so. I think you're right about that. It's a waste of time for us and probably for everybody who gives a shit about watching that like talking about with his hair, like who gives a shit about that? No offense. Anyone who did like that. I mean, there's, I'm sure there's a shout out Giants cross. She loves. She loves Sam Hartman. I'm sure she was enjoying watching that hair flow in as he's run the 40 and the Xavier worthy stuff. But I did think it was funny when Joe Shane was like, okay, is he now in the mix at number six? But Jay, was Xavier worthy and they're laughing about it because like that's the whole fun of the comment. Everyone's like, oh, he ran in the 40 time. Now he's got no shoot up draft or he's like, no, these guys are watching tape. They're not basically wrong. But he was right. And I like where these tape too. And I think he's going to be a good fit there. But he was right that like he's like, now he's a guaranteed pick at the back end around one, which he was, but I don't know if he like, I almost feel like he should have been anyway. I like worthy enough. Maybe it's close without that, but without the speed, that level speed. But I don't know. I think you could see it on tape. I don't think you needed a 40 yard dash. But it is what it is. Um, obviously that numbers eye popping. He broke a record there with four, two, one though I like when the scouts were like, eh, this is kind of weird. I like said, four, two, two, and then like five minutes later and we all got like four, two, two, four, two, three on our stopwatch is in like five minutes later. It's like, oh, he broke a record. But Hannah Burnett was like, no, that happens a lot. So she kind of put that conspiracy theory down. So let's go back to some of the interviews and stuff that stood out. JJ McCarthy one, we've done two of them. I thought it was interesting when JJ McCarthy like put out a told Brian Dable a call and Brian Dable is like, whoa, what's all that? Like that's all part of your call is like, if it was me, like if you're working with me, we're going to condense that to like one or two words. And you know, JJ was like, oh, well, that's how coach Harbaugh likes it. So I just thought that was really interesting to see JJ kind of recall it spit out that like, you know, 15 word play call and Dable's like, what are you, what are you doing, man? This is so unnecessary. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. I guess it's horrible. I like that way. Yeah. So from the mental side, I guess JJ is going to be able to retain whatever KOC throws at him. You hope, but then again, it's still going to be different, right? Like all the terminology changes. That's kind of like on you to problem solve at that point, just knowing he probably knows Harbaugh system inside out, but also there's just funny, the reverence he has for hobbies like, no, that's how coach Harbaugh liked it. That's how it is. Like, you know, Harbaugh has that kind of like aura over these college players. He certainly does. But that's what you should have. You won a national champion. He earned it. Yeah. I earned it. He earned it for sure. And then finally, the Caleb Williams interview look, I think both sides went into that one knowing this is probably not going to happen. We don't really have a chance to draft you and you're not and from his point, he's like, I'm not probably not have to worry about playing here. I know where I'm going. But I did love when Brian Dable asked him to recall, what's your favorite play? And he took a second to really think about it. And then he spit it out on the board. It's a cover to beater. And I love how he broke it down and Dable was like, oh, you have the confidence basically in your arm pallet and timing to rip that ball to that spot. He's like, yeah, I do. I can beat that spot. And he's like, well, if you don't have it, what else can you do? Can you throw the back shoulder? He's like, yeah, I can throw the back shoulder and I've thrown the back shoulder. And Brian Dable loved that. He's like, when I had Brett Favre, I used to run this exact play of Bunt and he'd throw the back shoulder. And it's just so cool to hear Dable like recall working with Brett Favre and like this was a play that like Brett Favre loved too and he would run it a bunch. And I think in a lot of ways it has to do with having that kind of elite level of velocity and arm talent to run a play like that. Like Brett Favre, obviously elite level, he can beat, he can beat safeties to the spot. Caleb Williams, unbelievable arm talent from what I saw on film. He can beat BBs to the spot. So I think it depends on the quarterback as far as what's your favorite play call going to be because you got to know what kind of arm talent you have and do you trust your arm talent? And when they asked Jayden Daniels kind of break down that one play he loved and where do you love to go with the ball here? Even said Jayden Daniels based on the talent we have, I like to go and he's like, is that neighbors? Like when he's pointing to that, he's like, yeah, that would be neighbors. And like, great. Like Jayden Daniels, I'm a league neighbor who's going against college BB so he can throw that. He can make that pass. But like, it's not always going to be Malik neighbors. Like when Caleb Williams is talking about the play that he loved, who was he throwing to last year? Brendan Rice, like who's running the routes for USC? Not really any kind of elite level talent whatsoever. So I thought it was interesting just to consider those two things. I agree. And speaking of Malik neighbors, should we get into what the giant scouts were saying about hammocks? I think it's really important. Yeah. Let's do that and then get into his interview. Yeah. So Scott Hamill was the scout. Same scout as Jayden Daniels obviously said he's passionate, he plays with a chip on his shoulder. He trains hard. He certainly loves football, but he wants the targets and he'll be vocal if he does not receive the targets. This is typical wide receiver diva type of stuff, right? But Brian Dable, as we'll get into, absolutely love this. And then Hamill said, we need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him considering there's a lot of personality to him. Yep. And that's the key. And you even heard it, Nick. And I don't want to jump around too much. So I want to get into the league neighbors interview, but you heard it after the interview where Brandon Brown and Joe Shane, Brandon Brown's like, I just, both kind of were like, I just need to learn a lot more about this kid. I just need to know. And then we obviously got Giants putting in their due diligence, the pre draft visits, the extra time they spent with him, but it felt like at the combo and they really didn't have a good grasp of who he was yet as a person. But in the interview, we got to learn a little bit more and so did the Giants. Link neighbors admitted he's not okay with losing. He hates losing more than he likes winning. And he also admitted that he's not really okay with not getting targets in the passing game or being involved in the passing game early because he's like, I work my ass off I practice all week and they're installing plays for me and then it just doesn't come to me. And I don't like that. I want to be involved in the offense. And that was kind of like Brian Dable was like, I don't hate this. I get it. I'm fiery too. And Joe Shane's lapping it off. He's like, buddy, you were just said, you need to harness that energy, the harness that energy, right? He's like, yeah, even I need to do it sometimes. Certainly Brian Dable needs to harness that energy to needs to definitely take into account the advice he's bestowing on to Malik neighbors. And on that note, Nick, are you concerned at all with this answer? You know, this, this feeling, this mindset neighbors has about not being okay with not getting targets in the game early and not being involved often early. Because guess what? We've seen a lot of receivers struggle to get targets in this offense, Jalen Hyatt struggled to get targets. Wandao Robinson struggled to get targets. Darie Slain, every receiver has struggled to get targets because the passing game has struggled to move the football and has struggled to throw the ball to struggle straight up passing yards have not been a part of this offense since about 2015. Maybe 20. Yeah, 2015 is the last time they actually threw the ball for like 250 plus a game or anything even close that range. They're down in the 200 yard range a game. Tyrod Taylor actually did it, I think two or three times in a row last year through 279 and 270 something back to back. The last two games of the season Tyrod Taylor, I think hit that 250 plus mark. But outside of those Taylor games, this offense just hasn't thrown the football for more than basically 200 yards a game for a long time. Jones hit it sometimes in 2019 again. But you know, just not a lot of passing yards in this offense, obviously the couple Vikings gained from 2022. So what are your thoughts on that? Like what if the Giants offense again is mostly run base, it's struggling to move the ball through the air. It's going to be an issue for the Giants and for neighbors. I don't think concerned is the right word, but it's something that you need to keep in mind. The Giants have dealt with this, right? Like Odell Beckham Jr. was very similar, right? She's somebody who wanted the football and ended up actually being a chasm between the relationship with Odell Beckham Jr. and the New York Giants. You hope that history does not repeat itself with a very talented LSU wide receiver. We know he's going to be the focal point of the offense as has been divulged already and as logic would tend to lead us towards, right? But with Malik neighbors, when you're the focal point, defenses are going to focus on you. And that could open up opportunities for Jaylen Hye and Wanda Robinson. I hope that if he is not getting the targets, that's going to result in success from the offense because Wanda Robinson, Jaylen Hye and everyone else, they're doing their jobs. So that's going to result in winning, which he likes to do and he hates losing, right? He hates losing more than he likes winning, but winning is better than losing. So I'm hoping if the Giants are winning football games and he only gets like six targets, three catches for 30 yards, he's not going to be a diva about it. I can't sit here and say that I'm fully confident. That's the case, I can't, but I hope that he is mature enough to realize, hey, man, like we're winning football games, I'm a big reason why even though it's not reflective in the stats. I'm with you on that, Nick. And I know it's been maybe post, I think it was Art Stableton who might have talked about this how like, you know, maybe things would have been different for Odell Beckham, Jr. here with the Giants if Brian Dable was his coach and, you know, this discussion on how Brian Dable can really understand this per type of diva per wide receiver personality, hone it in, harness it because of what he said, I'm very skeptical of that point by Art Stableton in that line of thinking because I have not seen that proven yet that Brian Dable is this like wide receiver whisperer who can just keep somebody, you know, happy if they're losing dude and he's not getting targets. I don't think I haven't Brian Dable, Andy Reed, Tom Landry, whoever the hell you want to put. It doesn't matter. I don't think it really, there's any wide receiver whisperers. You want the ball. You want to win. If those two things aren't happening, winning and the passing yards aren't there, the receiving yards aren't there. I don't think having Brian Dable is going to make much of a difference. And I don't think it would have made a difference with Odell Beckham, Jr. quite frankly, either. So then again, Brian Dable's offense could have unlocked the whole different version of Eli Manning that we don't know about. That could have been unbelievably fun to watch and which case Beckham would have had yards and would have had went more, maybe more winning. So could have changed from that standpoint, but I don't buy the whole Brian Dable is going to be this wide receiver whisperer thing. I think the giants are going to have to move the ball through the air this year. They're going to have to get the ball to neighbors. Jones is going to have to get the ball out on time. He's going to have to have better ball placement. He's going to have to throw for more than 200 yards a game for this thing to work out early with neighbors. I do honestly believe that Nick and I just have confidence that it will. I said neighbors can make this offense very quarterback proof in the sense that you don't really need to do much as a quarterback to make it work. And I do honestly believe that he gets open fast and he's going to hopefully be able to find way. They're going to find ways to get him targets, I hope. I hope to. It could be a small matter. It could become a big matter if all of the things that you just said actually ends up coming true. So it's something the Giants got a monitor, got to be on top of it and we just hope that Malik neighbors can harness that passion. And then in the post neighbors interview, I thought it was interesting the conversation that Joe Jane and Brandon Brown had from multiple standpoints. The first being they were like, look, I was expecting a totally different interview when they were saying that. Like I watch him on tape and he's got that dog in him and he's running people over and he's running into contact. But he'd be more of like, you know, that type of personality in the interview, he was more of a laid back guy. And then Brandon Brown was kind of saying like, yeah, look, like we don't really know that much about him. We still need to learn a lot more about who he is. But he did say there was one other thing that was really interesting to me about what that conversation it was that Joe Shane said to Brandon Brown, I already talked to Daniel Jones about it and he's already looked at him and he loves him in regards to like neighbors. That is very interesting. And I like the quote by Brandon Brown as well. Name me a great wide receiver, cornerback or pass rusher, who was a **** wire boy. Yeah. Yeah. And he said that's going to, he's going to bring something different than what we have to team that dog in him. That's not a shot at Wanda L. Jalen high at Darris Layton. They have their own personalities and you don't have to be a dog to win. But it is something to say that we're going to get a dog on this offense. I mean, he was really that now again, Oh, don't back him as a dog, being a dog, you know, it's great when it's working. It may be as bad if the offense is so dysfunctional that you can't get him the dog, the ball. But having that, that mindset, man, I'd always rather have the dog, the guy who's like willing to do anything it takes to win and really gives a **** about winning. Yeah. A dog combined with an elite skill set, right? If you can, if you are competent on offense, which history is not on the giant side in recent memory with that. But if you're competent on offense, that person should be satiated and then that should result in wins. Holy crap. Can the giants protect Daniel Jones? Can Daniel Jones get him the football can be ancillary pieces other than Malik neighbors end up taking advantage of the one-on-one matchups that should be presented to them with Malik neighbors playing opposite of them, all of those kind of remaining question marks. Just get the ball out on time and get it into decent ball placement. Just let him do the rest, man, just get the ball out, man. Get it out of your hands. That's, that's all that really matters to me, just figure out a way to be more decisive with the ball and get inlet and let it loose. I know Brian Dable wants that too, and he's, and we've seen those little clips of him discussing those things on the sideline. But another couple of interviews I want to talk about, the Romo Dunes A interview in the Harrison interview, Nick. I want to start with the Dunes A interview, obviously incredibly impressive. A lot of people are talking about us on Twitter and there was some speculation that the giants themselves were a bit torn on the wide receiver decision between Romo Dunes A and Malik neighbors at six overall. So I'm even have suggested that, you know, neighbors was, was Dable's guy and he won this battle but maybe O'Dunes A was Shane's guy or other people in the organization wanted Romo Dunes A. I think some of that was, I think that speculation, Nick is, is not really based on much. To be honest, I don't think at least for my perspective, I don't think we saw anything in that episode that led me to believe that the giant other people in the Giants organization were torn on this or they wanted O'Dunes A, but it's easy to see why that might be the case when you listen to this interview. This dude came up very impressed and very polished and then you saw him run the drills that gauntlet at the combine and you saw the Giants were super impressed by him and that in his 40 time, he was a smooth route runner, he moves really well without the football in his hands. This and all the other things we talked about in his breakdown, we loved him as a prospect too. Do you think, Nick, that there was any, any level of being torn on this neighbors versus Dunes A decision for the Giants? I think there was some level of that, but the Giants wanted a lightning rod. The Giants wanted an explosive player. They wanted somebody who was like a true difference maker and we evaluated the tape of Roma Dunes A and Malik neighbors and look, Roma Dunes A is a very good wide receiver and Malik neighbors is in a different echelon. He is a better overall prospect than a Roma Dunes A. Roma Dunes A is a bigger body, doesn't create separation in the same light. I think Malik neighbors is that type of player that you give him an angle, that angle can get erased and he's gone whereas Roma Dunes A is not that type of player. So I think just from a who's a better prospect standpoint, Malik neighbors, it's on Malik neighbor side. Roma Dunes A might be better from those intangible standpoint, sure, but what would you prefer if Malik neighbors is not going to be a problem for you from a locker room standpoint? You would prefer the better prospect, you prefer the explosive playmaker after losing say Juan Barkley, your most explosive playmaker since 2018. So it makes sense that they went with Malik neighbors from that standpoint. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there was a huge discussion about it, probably all the way up into April, but I'm imagining the Giants probably saw it similar to us that Malik neighbors can be a home run hit for your offense. Yeah, I just think I don't like the Roma Dunes A Malik neighbors comparison Nick, because I think they're so different to completely different prospects. Like if you want to look for something I'd be more willing to entertain, it's Roma Dunes A and Marvin Harrison to me, those are more similar prospects and that you can evaluate when you watch the day. Hey, this guy does this better from a talent standpoint, right from their skill set standpoint. Correct. Yeah. Not from who's, you know, ranking, not like that. So my skill set, because I don't want to rank like, doesn't make it stupid to me to rank O'Dunes A and neighbors when you're, when they're so different and what they can all for your offense. Like if you're debating where were the Giants at with decision, it could just be simply simply put as neighbors to say much better fit for what we need in our offense right now. And on that stamp from that front, there's nowhere close because O'Dunes A doesn't, it's not like neighbors that all is a prospect, not body type, not route running out release off line. It's going to be none of this stuff. Speed explosive. Like none of this is similar. They're different prospects. That's the part I like, yeah, did O'Dunes A's interview come off better? Sure. Obviously, I mean, he sounded more mature and he obviously, you know, spoke really well. That's not, I'm not breaking any news here, but that's not the decision. Like decision is based on that, I don't think. And speaking of another interview Nick that came off, I at least came off really impressed with. It was Marvin Harrison, Jr. Who again, I think, you know, a similar situation where it's kind of just like going through the motions with this one, in the sense that I don't think he ever really thought he was falling past Arizona, I think that was the best kept hidden secret in the draft whenever anyone would say, like, oh, the Giants could maybe trade up to four with Arizona. I'm just laughing it off in my head, Nick, because I knew Arizona one in Marvin Harrison, Jr. wasn't going to entertain moving off of that. But you know, I love how he didn't throw his quarterback, Kyle McCord, under the bus, because I certainly did when we did our Marvin Harrison film review in the pre-job process, because the court was terrible. As the Giants count pointed out, like this was a horrible ball, you saw that all the time throughout his tape versus the CJ Stroud tape. And he didn't throw him under the bus. He's like, it's my fault. But I also thought he was, I'd also love when Marvin Harrison is like, yeah, I'm not going to do any of this crap during the pre-job process, like, I don't need a train to run these drills. I put my shit on tape. I'm the best. I'm preparing for to be the best NFL receiver. Point blank. Don't expect me at the pro day. Don't expect me at the combine. It is what it is. Yeah, I appreciated that too. And he earned that. He earned that. For you years, we were talking about Marvin Harrison, Jr., why does he have to train to run around in his freaking underwear? He earned that. He earned that. But now he better play up to it because on the flip side of that, not to be hypocritical, Evan Nioh, we thought maybe here in that. And now look. Sure. So Marvin Harrison, Jr. needs to play up to it, which I think he will. Very true. Good point, by the way. I want to get, we're going to get into the, the, the segwan stuff. We're going to, we'll close on that, Nick, but I want to first get into something that was really interesting. You know, we always go through the combine process and we wonder, Nick, we don't have any details on until now, we actually do in this episode. We wondered like, is Joe Shane doing any like coach speak or GM speak at the combine? Is it natural? Are the good questions natural? And we got to see an insight into this with Dionne Dargan, who works for the Giants prepping Joe Shane for the combine, you know, going back and forth on what might be asked how those reactions to those answers might be might have come from the media. And he even said, Dionne, that I, Mario, my job is to track giants Twitter religiously, which Joe Shane's like, oh, you got to get off Twitter. He's like, no, never mind. I actually need you to do that. The end. He kind of like doubled back. Cause I actually know I need you on Giants Twitter. He's like, we'll cross both of our profiles and look at these two fricking idiots. Yeah. I'm sure he has like, cause he's, of course, he has because he's seen like other people doing like breakdowns of Joe Shane's body language, which he told Joe Shane about is like, dude, they're going to break down your body language. So like, here's the big talking points. They're going to want to know about the quarterbacks and everything you say about the quarterback. And what was the other one? I think it was the other one, you better be careful with both of those. I just thought it was really interesting to see that. And then they, I think HBO did a great job of kind of like editing it and meshing it to the point where like those questions that Joe, like the way Joe Shane answered Dionne in the, in his pre, pre combine interview were like kind of exactly to the point where he said to the media, just very cookie cutter. And now we know from this point on Nick that we can't really look too much into this. From an editing standpoint, it was done marvelously by HBO, but this was deliberately added when it was the behind the scenes while Joe Shane was getting coached up, Joe Shane said this about sequo on Barkley. I know he doesn't want to be franchise, but I wanted to give him a lot of money a year ago. And he didn't want that. And then him and the other guy started laughing, you know, that was deliberately put in there. Good point. By the way, like he's like, Oh, no, I'm not going to actually say that, but him, him mean, but then they put it on the HBO. Yeah. Kind of say, and now we kind of know it. That was interesting. We're going to get into sacred stuff. We'll wrap up that. But before we wrap up that, we missed a big, we didn't miss it, but we've, we've saved the big point of this episode. And that was Joe Shane's conversate to first this conversation with Brandon Brown, followed by his conversation with Elliot Wolff, the Patriots general manager. So first this conversation with Brandon Brown about potentially trading up for number three, with Joe Shane straight up, no, I don't know how people are looking into this in other ways. Well, some people can't grasp this concept, but straight up said we're interested in trading for number three. These are exact words. We're interested in trading for number three. We want to let them know that we're interested in trading for that. So before they do anything, maybe trade it to another team, they at least circle back and give us an opportunity to make that trade. And Brandon Brown says, all right, well, why don't you go let him know right now? And so Joe Shane walks over there to Elliot Wolff and he tells him, look, we're interested in trading that please. But this is all by the way back in February. And then Elliot Wolff, my interpretation of that Nick was Elliot Wolff did not seem all that interested in trading number three, even back in February. I feel like he had no real interest in that conversation. He's like, yeah, other teams have called. It's kind of just been this conversation that we've had. And it just kind of like struck me as like, this deal was just never going to happen. And Giants could try as hard as they want over as much as they want to try to get Drake May. And I know some people are saying, no, they said they're interested in trading up the three, but it's not guaranteed that it was for a quarterback or Drake May. Yeah, dude. You think they're going to trade up for an offensive that go out receiver? Why don't you just look at NFL history and educate yourself before making that declaration? It's really frustrating. I'm sorry to go that route, but it's just insanely frustrating. It's obviously they were if they were going to trade up was for a quarterback. There's no real reason to debate that because it's so obvious like, the sky is blue today. It was all a little orange today. Is it always blue? No, it's not always blue. Some days it's not going to look blue, but the sky is blue in the end. So that's where I've been for that quarterback who did really well in the hard knocks episode, maybe. I don't know. Do you think so? No, Drake May, who they showed having an unbelievable interview with the Giants probably and who they went to Joe Shane went to six games to scout and who I had heard that they really loved in the pre draft process. I don't know. It might have been. But what we did get to see was clear evidence that they were interested in trading up to number three, which I did not expect the Giants to put on this hard knocks here. If it was me and I was a Giants, I probably would have left this out. Maybe HBO didn't let them, but I would have been like HBO. It's over. We didn't get Drake May. They didn't consider trading up back at any point really or at least then strongly consider it. And now we got Daniel Jones. Let's just leave this one out as well. They left plausible deniability by not mentioning why and not like talking a lot about the quarterbacks, but they showed the quarterback interviews like, Hey, look how cool these interviews are. And we want to trade up. Yeah. And it's cool how they showed it like that's how it starts, right? Like he just goes up to Elliott Wolf walks over to the booth and it's like, look, we're interested. Let us know before you go. And again, I just, I didn't, did you get the feel that Elliot Wolf was really all that interested in trading back? I mean, it's hard to discern from, from that little conversation, but he's basically like, yeah, I got a bunch of offers on the table already. Where are you guys picking at? Oh, six. Oh, all right. Like, no, not really. I mean, dude, we all know they needed a quarterback. Mac Jones's time was done there. So what the hell are they going to do when they have the third overall. Every organization is like tipping off who they love in the pre-job process because the Patriots weren't like all over Drake May in the pre-job process doesn't mean that they didn't love the dude from the very start. And I think it's clear to me at least with them not really taking the Vikings offer, which was insane and a lot of capital. And I've been really considering that that they love Drake May and we'll see that play out. Obviously it's was tough. It was tough for me to watch Drake May in that interview because I mean, I know how I feel about Drake May from watching the tape, but then to also get that it's like, damn, they were really close to getting this level prospect if they, if things had broken a different way. I know. You were wishing that one at some point. You were wishing he was a dumb dumb. But in the, yeah, you were wishing you went up there and said, uh, I don't know. I wish he just threw it for the Patriots game of band interview. Let him fall. Maybe not. Maybe the Vikings would have even traded at it. I don't even know at that point, but now Alec van Pelt, the guy from the Browns. Okay. See how that works out. Yeah. We're going to see how it works out. The offensive line is the biggest issue there, in my opinion, for New England is hard. Let me do it. Who's your school? I'm a big fan of that. I have not that roster. Yeah. Hunter Henry. Yeah. Jalen Polk now and the other receiver from a UCF Baker, but like he is putting to a bad situation. As bad as it gets. But he, I think he'll be, I actually still have confidence he'll be able to, to come out of that. I really believe in him as a prospect. But, I mean, the point is, Joe Shane literally told the said on air, we're interested in trading for, for the pick. Like I don't know how anyone at this point can deny that though somehow they're there are people on giant Twitter who are still denying it. It's, I, I got to be honest with you Nick, I find it really odd and weird that people would even care to take that line of to deny it. It's just, I'll never understand it, but to each his own. I don't think there's a big contingent of people who are, no, it's a small contingent. It's just like, you like the small, it's in your bro, is that getting to me? It's just weird, dude. It's like, why are you care? Why do you care about denying this? Just admit it. It's over. They tried trading up to three for four or five. They didn't get it done. It's over with. Daniel Jones is your quarterback. You're done. It's over. We don't need to go back and reverse this stuff, especially when the Giants are literally letting HBO publish it, but speaking of the quarterback, I'm glad you brought that up because there was one very small point of the hard knocks episode where Joe Shane essentially was like, Daniel Jones might not be available for the first three weeks. We don't want to start 0 and 3. We need to get that second quarterback. And I don't know if that this was deliberately put in there for HBO to, to point to the fact that Daniel Jones is the de facto number one quarterback, or if that's actually how Joe Shane was doing it this entire time. He's like, we want to get a guy like Drew Locke to come in and start a couple of games. And then once Daniel Jones is ready, he can be the starting quarterback and he is the starting quarterback. Yeah. Which side of the coin do you fall on there? I actually, you know, and this is funny because it's just talking about how like I don't understand the people who are on the, who are saying the things about the trading up. I think you should be more like willing to just entertain both sides. Like I'm entertaining both sides here. Like I think my takeaways from this episode and last one is the Giants are still confident in Daniel Jones. Joe Shane specifically is confident in Daniel Jones being the quarterback and building around him. Even with the comments like we already talked to Daniel Jones, he loves Malik neighbors. So I think despite trying to trade up for Drake May, who they obviously love, they didn't get it done. And they still like Jones. You can do two things at once. You can like Daniel Jones and the potential for him to kind of bounce back with a receiver that he likes like neighbors while also, you know, understanding that there's an opportunity to get a prospect you love at quarterback that can really upgrade this position. So I really think they're confident in Jones to be the QB one for this year. And hopefully, you know, he can get back in time. It looks to me right now, Nick, like he's going to be ready for the start of camp. I can only hope that's the case. Yeah, that would be awesome for Daniel Jones and look, man, fourth year in a row, we're saying this, but it's time to not up a shot up Daniel Jones. Yeah, this is it. I hope, but this is, this is gotta be it, right? Like this is, this is it. The only thing is if they leave him, if it's another like 20, 22, it's another like open ended where you be like, Oh, well, it was a good year. They grind it to a wild card and lost and they didn't really take many jump as a passing game, but they won some games and he got some comebacks and he just needs another year with this to happen better for him. That's the only thing. We'll have to see how that happens because then they're not going to be in position to draft the quarterback or really get one. It's all about what happens to like a lot of NFL teams. You get stuck in this position, not just all about the option to happen. Yeah, exactly. All you have, we don't know what the Giants will have that remains to be seen, depends how they do this year. One final thing. Let's let's wrap up with the Barkley stuff, man. I just got to say that conversation between Joe Shane and Saquan Barkley was cold as mother effort. Like that was awkward. That was cold just from the very start where he's like, Hey, man, how you doing? He's like, Hey, I mean, are you New Jersey? Are you still in? Yeah, I'm in New Jersey. Like Saquan sounded so done with this man and maybe it's because someone speculated because maybe he thought like Joe Shane was going to spring on him at the end of that conversation or after some small talk, like, Hey, we're going to tag you again and he was going to be pissed. But I don't know. It sounded like he was done with him. And then even to the point where he was like, look, we're going to do right by you and let you hit the market instead of tagging you. But just can you at least promise me you'll come back to us. He's like, what? What do you mean come back to you? And he's like, it's like circle back. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like circle back. There's Joe Shane's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, circle back is like, you know where I'm at. You know where I want to be. That's kind of like shit. It's kind of like, you know what I want. Make it happen. There ain't going to be no coming back to you and you guys low ball me. And he kept dangling. Joe Shane Nick. I thought it was interesting kept dangling the whole ring of honor thing like, you know, you want to be part of this giant ring on or don't you like, this is what we got over you, baby. That's our leverage. That's the leverage, dude. And that's like, it's, it's kind of sad, right, especially like there was so much bad blood at that point. And I felt like HBO did a good job inserting that one little comment that Joe Shane made before he jumped on the phone, I think it was while he was talking with Ed Barry, his agent, he was like, look, Saquon's basically said something to the effect. I didn't write it down. Like that. Saquon Barkley was pissed because he felt like the giants were low balling him. Yeah. So, and this has been a contentious thing that they've really made a point in both hard knock episodes dating back to last November. So we're talking about November of 2022. This has been a huge contentious situation between Saquon Barkley and Joe Shane. So Saquon guys on the phone, he thought he was going to get tagged again. I think that's a pretty safe bet, but it definitely seemed like Saquon Barkley was just done with being a New York champion. He kind of came out and was like, yeah, you know where I want to be. Okay. And then he ends up going to Philadelphia on the first day of free agents. Right. And more power to him. You got a little bit more money out there. People are like, Oh, it was only a little bit more money, but it's like, it's like half a million dollars. More guaranteed money, I think too. Sure. It's not small. A bigger opportunity to win play behind a great offensive line behind a great offensive line. Like you get to know brainer for Zeke one. I felt that way since the start. Yeah, no, we've been clear about that on this podcast. And when when you're a player, when you're a super athlete, like Saquon Barkley, who has just been just praised his entire life, and you feel like you're being spurned by an organization that has kind of been a dumpster fire since you arrived and you've received so many carries and you have all of these injuries, I think a fresh start makes sense. That's a logical thing for Saquon Barkley. I don't know if you watched the, the preview for the third episode. But John Marah, John Marah, I'm actually like genuinely, genuinely looking forward to getting to watch John Marah's reaction to Barkley signing with the Eagles. Like that's entertainment one on one right there. Like it's going to be the best part, potentially the series watching that reaction from John when he sent when he hears the news. Will they actually show that? I think they actually show me a reaction, please. If I need to see another chair thrown in an office, remember when you threw the chair press box. I need to see another John Marah chair. Zero. It's about time. We've been waiting a while for the next chair throw to be televised. Let's see another John Marah chair, though, please. I want chair throws. I want medium Pepsi. This is going to be a good time. Yeah. I promise me. Well, I had one final thing. We did hear another mention by Joe Shane when he was talking with Saquon Barkley's agent before the Saquon Barkley call of the data that shows about what the data says about signing running backs at 27 years old. So, and it kind of sounded like Joe Barkley's agent knew that Joe Shane was just already made his decision. It all kind of felt like it was over despite it not technically being over just yet. Those are difficult conversations to have, but I 100% agree with you, which seems like Joe Shane has dialed into that. But as he said, he offered, what, $12.5 million back in 2022, November of 2022, and it wasn't accepted. Right. Right. And that's reality of situations. Saquon was expecting more. He thought he would get more, and that was probably maybe an issue with his old agents. He's had new agents since. He's hired new, and that could be a part of the reason why. But look, in the end, it's no love loss from me, Nick. I don't really think this franchise any closer to winning with darkly under contract for the next two years at 28 years old, like it just, this wasn't the team for him. Like he needs to join an Eagles type team with a great already established old line and a winning quote, like already a chance to win a Super Bowl. He's not meant to be 27 years old on a team toiling away from, you know, and trying to just gain back, go back to relevancy. You know how much it's going to suck, though, when the Giants, he's going to be great for them. It's the whole line. It's just that. But when he plays, we play them twice. You know, he's going to put out, he's going to go hard in those games. He's going to be great. Scott's not there anymore. So it's going to be, say, one bar, please touch downs. Yeah, they are speaking of bark. I don't even know how to approach from a fantasy standpoint is a really interesting option for that. But people don't want to hear about fantasy football stuff. I kind of do, though. How are you approaching that? I don't love. I don't love that he's got the receptions are going to go way down with Jalen Hertz, but I feel like the touchdown. That might change out, though. Let me, let me throw something at you and apologize to the audience who don't give a shit about fantasy. Kellen Moore is his offensive coordinator now. I know. I was thinking that. I think it's your, it's the, it's the Tush push. That's what I'm concerned about. Tush push hurts him too. Huge. But maybe they look at it like we can protect Jalen Hertz and protect our quarterback from an injury standpoint. Since we signed Barkley and let him take the, the hits on those, those goal line stuff. And how effective is the Tush push now that Jason Kelsey isn't there? Sure. That's one of the most important questions I'll be answered. But we don't want to go too deep on fantasy football talk because some people don't like it. Though I'm sure others do like it, by the way, for those of you who don't. So try to be cognizant of others. Always try to think of other people. That's a good way to live your life and some little life advice to end the show. But Nick, for Nick and for myself, thank you for listening to the big blue banter recap of hard knocks episode two, we'll recap every episode. We may have some interesting content coming as well, Thursday of this week, something different that we're debating doing as that we're leaning toward that we're going to be doing. And then we did say we're going to get back to live shows and mail back. So I want to do a mailbag next week, Nick, or maybe end of this week. We haven't done one in a while. So I'm sure there's a lot of questions. So anyway, thanks again for listening. Have a great rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon. [BLANK_AUDIO]
