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Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast, that's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions applied. I'm Dan Schneier, joined as always my co-host Nick Folado, and apparently his dog Phoenix today as well. Look at that face. Look at that cutie. He's just chilling over there, Phoenix. It's hot out, boys and girls. It's hot, man. It's been just 9, 8, 9 days in a row, just heat with no break. I thought a storm on Saturday would change it, but it did not break it. So the heat is here. The off-season is here. We're waiting until training games. Some of us are spending our time like Nick getting nice haircuts and getting himself together. Some of us spending time like me on a golf course, and others are spending our time in strip clubs tossing out thousands of dollars. Nick and I don't have that luxury like the league neighbors does, though we didn't get the signing bonus. I do love how people are like, oh no, he's out of strip clubs. He's like, oh, 20-year-old, that is strip club, go figure, like, come on, man, what are we doing here? I mean, I'm glad to enjoy his time. I remember I saw Carl Banks, or I don't remember. I saw Carl Banks tweet about this, like, he's like, yeah, like, we can't wait to see the overreaction. The first reporter is going to ask about him, ask him about this in the first day of training game. And he's like, then Carl Banks was listening off like four different places that he used to go when he was a player for the Giants. It's like, whoa, Carl. I was just like naming names and plays like, you don't have to take it after Carl, but I do understand the sentence. Carl, like, the party, kids, they want to have fun, and they want to party a little bit, and they should. It's their off time. This is, you know, time to relax. It's, you know, honestly, I'd rather him be at a strip club and weak neighbors than on an ATV, okay, potentially somebody dangerous like that, spending on your off time. You know, you can't get hurt in a strip club if you lose money, but you can't get hurt. Or I shouldn't say lose money. You can spend money. You can catch him in a strip club. He's helping the college funds of a lot of young women around the country there. He's benevolent men. Yes. You've got it like that. But hard knocks. Episode two for the Giants is coming as well tomorrow, so we'll do a podcast covering that. I'm excited. Art Stableton has suggested it's going to be a fun one for Giants fans. We're excited to see that. And I think that's going to help us get through to the start of training again. But these podcasts will hopefully also help you get through and we're going to be continuing to preview the positions for the Giants. We head into the 2024 season. We've done wide receivers. We've done running backs. Today, we are doing the tight end position, Nick, which had a bit of a different feel than we expected going to the off season because the Giants drafted a tight end who we really liked. And another one of their tight ends retired and that's Darren Waller. So what's your overall thought and feel on the tight end position as we head into 2024? I just find the tight end position fascinating over the last couple of years. We go back to the first year with Brian Dable. Remember, it was like Ricky seals, Jones and Jordan eight wins. We were talking about those players, neither of them made the team at the end of the season because injuries and Jordan Akins, I think ended up getting waved. And then Daniel Bellinger, this rookie that the Giants drafted on day three ended up seizing a pretty significant role and then Tanner Hudson worked in last season was like, we got Darren Waller, Darren Waller, Darren Waller is going to be the focus of the offense along with Saquon Barkley. That obviously did not materialize as we would have liked. And now it's Daniel Bellinger, Theo Johnson. It's this mixture of Chris Manhertz and Jack Stoll. It's this odd group, along with Lawrence Kager, who is getting a lot of hype, Jordan Ron on a ESPN has said he was the biggest riser of players that were unexpected through the off season, the mini camp and all that. I look at the tight end group and it is significantly, I would say, better overall, not from a star power standpoint, but from a depth standpoint, meaning depth at blocking last season they did not. We have brought this up so much on the podcast and about how Daniel Bellinger's injury against Seattle hamstrung the Giants, rendering Darren Waller into a role where he had to block because Lawrence Kager is a former wide receiver and isn't really a blocker either. Giants only had three tight ends on their roster last year that significantly hamstrung them. Now the Giants at least have depth there and all the tight ends right now other than Lawrence Kager, they're all blockers. Chris Manhertz, that's essentially an offensive lineman. Jack Stoll can block Dublin to the University of Nebraska was blocking for years in Philadelphia. Theo Johnson can block 260 pounds. We saw that to a solid degree at Penn State and then we all know what Daniel Bellinger can do. So is it the most exciting group on the team? No, it is not. Does it have star power? No, it does not, but can it block and allow a run game to flourish and are the weapons good enough to operate in a play action passing attack and are they athletic enough to stretch the seam? Yes. And that's all I want from this tight end group on this team with Malik neighbors as the focal point. I think that's fair. And I think for me, the questions start really with one. What will the identity of the offense be and how different will it be from what the identity was or what it was supposed to be and what we saw in Flash is when he was healthy. Darren Waller, I mean in 2023 because there were times where it looked strongly starting with the preseason game, the Cardinals game among others that this offense was designed last season to revolve around Darren Waller being the focal point of the passing game. That is going to be a massive, massive departure from what we saw last year because there is no Darren Waller in this offense. I remain skeptical that Lawrence Cage will play out a large share of snaps. I even think Lawrence Cage is personally on the raw, potentially on the roster chopping block. He may make the roster, but I don't think it's a guarantee. I think it's way more likely these other tight ends make the roster. To your point, Dan, about Darren Waller being the focal point, we all knew that going in. But what sparked the comeback against the Arizona Cardinals in week two when the Giants were getting their asses kicked out there in Glendale, Arizona, it was that deep post to Jalen Hyatt. Why was that deep post to Jalen Hyatt open because it was a quarter's coverage by the Arizona defense where the safety to Jalen Hyatt side sat down on the cross from Darren Waller allowing Jalen Hyatt to have inside leverage against an outside leverage corner back to have the middle of the field wide open because there were so many eyeballs paying attention to Darren Waller. Yeah, you're right. And it was a good job by Jones, by the way, on that one to recognize that and make the throw to the post, deep post to Jalen Hyatt. But that's going to change so much this year because that offense, the design was to run through wall or that there's no one on this roster that's going to be. I will say, you know, we say, oh, there's no star power like that. But I think on this roster, Dio Johnson has, at least from an athletic standpoint, more upside than people realize, athletically comparable to Jimmy Graham. We both agree on tape. He's not as athletic as the testing numbers suggest, but I also think we both agree on tape. We're meat left on the bone for Dio Johnson from receiving standpoint due to the horrific quarterback play dealt with a Penn State, the bad timing from the quarterbacks there and just his lack of involvement or his lack of designed targets within that offense. Like it just wasn't run through Dio Johnson. Let's say it will be for the Giants, but there is upside in my mind for him to become a focal point of this passing him at some point in his career, though, most likely, we'll see at least in year one of this new new version of this offense. Link neighbors be the focal point, we hope, of this Giants offense. At least the hope to happen right away. So within that, we know we're phasing out that run through Darren Wall or run through the first tight end aspect of the offense. So now what role would these guys have in the passing game? Because I think it's pretty clear that all of these guys, like you mentioned, can block Dio is the one I'm most skeptical about as far as blocking goes, but that's just because he hasn't done at the NFL level and it's a jump to go from college to the NFL. But within that frame, you know, you can look at it like this offense will change not only through who's going to be the focal point Darren Waller, but also through the personnel usages and packages because, you know, there may be fewer examples, at least we see early on of 12 personnel and two tight end sets, seventh most last year of three three wide receiver sets among all teams, which I was surprised to see. Logic would suggest that it would be, but at the same time, I think a lot of this also depends on if the Giants can maintain any sort of advantage in their 12 personnel package with these tight ends against what the defense they're going up against, how they respond to that. And I just think defenses are going to play the Giants slightly different now because there is no Saequan Barkley back there because it is Devin Singletary, it might be more of a focus on stopping the passing attack, more eyeballs on Malik neighbors who will be the focal point of the offense as I previously mentioned. But to the Theo Johnson point that you brought up, I would love for him to develop to be a nice secondary option, him or Daniel Bellander, a nice secondary receiving option behind Malik neighbors. But you would argue it's Wanda Robinson or Jalen Hyatt, but he is a he's going through a lot right now. He says that this offense is a little bit overwhelming. I think the quote that he used was learning this offense is like drinking water out of a fire hose, which is very consistent with a lot of the things that we have heard about it. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do. I also am not a hundred percent sure if he's going to earn an early role with Chris Mann Hertz, Jack Stolle and Daniel Bellander being the veterans on this team. What do you think about that? I mean, he could. He very realistically could. I just I'm not sold. That's a definite thing. No, I think you're right. I think, you know, we hear a lot about this. This is such a common theme. We keep hearing about this giant's offense being difficult to pick up very, you know, timing based option routes or receivers, they have to be sharp within each play. They have to be sharp every day of practice to try to pick this up. And then we hear it applied to Theo Johnson a little differently than weak neighbors. And maybe that's because Malik neighbors was drafted to fill a specific role and they're going to kind of try to get him into that role right away with Theo Johnson. You might have a little bit more, like you said, a room to let him grow into the role. I also think there's a lot more like to be a tight end is a lot different than to be a wide receiver in the NFL, because you have to also pick up the blocking side of it. You also have to pick up the protection side of it, like the run by again, the past blocking side of it. There's more responsibility on the plate of a time. And we see this all the time in the NFL tight and it takes so long to develop. It takes so long to really jump into a role. It doesn't always happen. Sam Laporta obviously was able to earn a role right away with the Lions and play incredible amount of snaps even to an extent, Daniel Bellander in his rookie season, I think played like 84% of the snaps or something like that at a 84% snap share, one of the best, you know, highest rates in the league with the Giants, but it doesn't always happen that way. So I think you're right. There's going to be maybe we start training camp and Theo Johnson is running with the third team. We keep seeing them. We're like, what's going on here? And I said, no, don't panic. Don't worry about this. It's going to take a little bit of time. Both Chris Mann hurts and Jack Stoll and the John Schmelke interview said, yeah, this is a very complicated offense. Jack Stoll mentioned something to the effect of it's the complicated offense. But once you master it, it allows you to play fast, which is something that if you guys want to listen back to the wide receiver podcast, you and I discussed. But Chris Mann hurts and yeah, I've been a part of a lot of offenses, been with a lot of offensive coordinators. This is by far and away, the most complicated offense, but Chris Mann hurts specifically, really just wants to maximize the potential of the room. He seems to be this old man kind of coming into the room and saying, this is what we have to do as blockers and that's my primary, the primary point of this podcast that I want to convey. And it's something that if anybody listening to big blue banter podcast for a while would know is we want it for so long, Dan, a tight end room who could block. We wanted a tight end room who could frickin block. And I think with the presence of Chris Mann hurts Jack Stoll, Daniel Bellinger and possibly even Theo Johnson, as I mentioned previously, we actually have that now. But there's going to be a drawback from the explosive nature of the tight end room now without Darren Waller, even though we didn't really get to experience that to its full degree because Darren Waller was injured a lot last year and the Giants were an absolute shit show. We're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search "match" with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busy work, use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use Indeed, the better it gets. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great, talent fast. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/bluewire. Let's go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions apply. And to hire, you need Indeed. You ever feel sluggish or out of focus, are you stressed? Has your digestive system caused discomfort or flatulence like a certain co-host on this podcast during a live stream? If so, you should check out AG1. When I started drinking AG1 daily, I could feel a real difference in my daily health. I had more energy, I was better off at the gym, and I could focus on my work in a much more efficient manner. That's because AG1 is a foundational nutrition supplement that supports your body's universal needs like gut optimization, stress management, and immune support. 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No material or testimonials on the Unified Healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers, with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment, and before undertaking the new health care regimen, include EE System. Yeah, you're right, Nick, and I think the focus on what you were saying, I think the reason we wanted that and the reason the Giants wanted that, I mean, you can touch on examples that you've mentioned in the past that we've talked about. For example, that Seattle Seahawks game on Mandana football when they were down, so many tight ends that they just had to alter their entire game plan. And it was a night where you really, really could have used a tight end who can help clock on the edge next to your right tackle. And Theo Johnson talked about these, like, the biggest learning curve by far has been the protections, picking up the, you know, where to be on third down from protection standpoint. That he said he's confident he'll be ready from that regard for a training camp. We'll see. It's going to take time. The guys who will be ready for that because they've proven in the past are Manhart, Stahl, and Bellinger. And the thing is this, Nick, I almost feel like, you know, maybe the Giants looked at their whole everything that's gone down with this offense over the last two years. And have decided in some senses that we want Evan Neal to be who we drafted him to be. We can't be for sure that he is going to be that player. So if we have a tight end next to him, we can sacrifice having one fewer guy in the ground protection, sorry, in the route concept to maximize our protection. You have a tight end who you know has put it on tape. He can block and he can help you in best direction. Now you have a six man protection on these obvious passing downs or even these non obvious fast downs off of play action, whatever it may be, six men in production, three men out, Wandell, Hyatt and neighbors or neighbors, Hyatt and Slayton or any combination of the Giants, receivers that we've talked about in the past, and you have a better chance to actually succeed on your play, despite having one fewer guy running around being that tight end. Because now you have a six man pass reduction, you can slide to the right. You can put Andrew Thomas on an island. And freely at that point, you're giving Evan Neal everything you can possibly give him to be successful on a play. You've already slid the production to his side, you've also added a tight end into block. It shouldn't pay on paper help you like if you have five men sliding to the right there and you have Andrew Thomas on an island, Hyatt, I feel like the Giants pass reduction should be at an all time high. What you just said is the pillar of the Giants offense to you can slide protection to the right and leave Andrew Thomas on an island if the defense of front allows you to do that. You have that security blanket of Andrew Thomas's skillset there for the New York Giants offense. And as we've said through this off season, Dan, what is the biggest Achilles heel that could hold Daniel Jones back? It would be. And so if you have a tight end next to him, he doesn't have to be in the protection the entire time. If we go back to 2022 when Evan Neal was a rookie, a lot of Daniel Bellinger's catches, it weren't him running up the seam. They weren't him running these deep horizontal crosses. They weren't him running these flag routes. It was him blocking for about a second, a second and a half, and then detaching and then Daniel Jones finding Daniel Bellinger for a quick little outlet pass, six, seven, eight yards. Daniel Bellinger breaks attack will fall forward. That could be the primary method of receiving from the New York Giants tight end room. I would like it to be a little bit more. But if you mean that you can secure the offensive line and that would allow Daniel Jones to actually use the entire field, give him some time and it sacrifices the tight end, as you were saying, then yeah, and that tight end becomes a security blanket. Once he ends up blocking, engaging, passing the guy off to Evan Neal or Devin Singletary if it's a seven man protection and then releasing and then he's like, Hey, Daniel, I'm open. Throw me the damn football. And that's something that I think we've seen in the past and it has been successful and it just matriculates the football down the field six yards, seven yards, gets you into a third manageable situation. If Malik neighbors are various late in your dayland hide or not open down the field, yeah, I think you nailed it. I think as we look at this tight end group, long term, there's hope in my mind for it to be for, especially with Theo Johnson, to me with his skill set, as you can use this tight end position as is a now a vertical threat and an intermediate threat in your offense and he's running up the seam and we're hitting him. But for the short term with where this offense is at, specifically the offensive line, like yes, they've added players, but it's been two horrific years, not two, it's been ten horrific years in a row of offensive line play. For the short term, I'm looking at this tight end group as the group that can help shore up this past reduction. So normally you go into a season with your offensive line, you're like, okay, I'm banking on some protection, taking an upgrade. We've made some moves in the off season. Let's hope that this five man group can get it together. I don't know. I think for the Giants right now, their best bet is hoping that a six man group on a consistent basis can get it done. And with that six man, not being an offensive lineman, but instead being a tight end to meet, that's the number one duty right now of this tight end group to start. That's the blocking because I do honestly believe that you can sacrifice a man running, you can sacrifice one of your route runners on any given play with the talent they've accrued at wide receiver between neighbors, Juan Del Hyatt, Slate, and even to my mind, like players like Isaiah Hodgin, who I do like when they're on the field, you can sacrifice one man in the route. And especially when you have like a guy like Tyrone Tracy, maybe out there, even Singletary, who's, you know, maybe not the best route running receiver, but he can definitely take dump offs and do, you know, and do work with that. That's a man to upgrade the production. That's right now the plan for me or like the goal of this tight end group for 2024. I would say, yeah, for the first part, maybe, but you also want as many routes out there if you can because even if it's not to like be the primary focal point or the primary read, it just distracts other defenders and the space for Malik neighbors or various Satan or whoever else, right? I wanted to, um, since this is the off season and we're having fun, Dan, what do you think the rumors about Daniel Bellinger, where are they coming from? Exactly. We saw Connor. Yeah. I think it's just bold. Yeah, it's just bold takes. It's not bold takes. It's like, so you have it. I think it's from Connor Hughes and from Ron, a few of the beats have just been like speculating that maybe the Giants will cut pellinger and keep more in skager. For example, like, I think a lot of it just has to do with there's limited media availability during OTAs. So they're at one or two of these practices and I'm talking about the ones before training again, what we just went through. And you know, when they were at the one or two that they were at, Bellinger wasn't involved. And using that, you can make these huge, draw these huge inclusions now. I personally believe that that's not enough evidence to draw conclusion for starters. I don't think the Giants are showing much of the media. Secondly, I find OTAs to be very vastly overrated as far as predictability moving forward. I don't think they're mostly just getting the guys on the field, get them back with the team, help the kind of team and even to the extent, extent where the NFL Nick is even discussed, getting rid of OTAs entirely. They would never discuss getting rid of them entirely if they actually had significance to these teams, to these coaches and to these, like, general managers, right? Like, they'd be like, no, we're not getting rid of that. We need that to have a good season. But I think everyone kind of agrees we don't actually need that. There's no pads. I mean, to the extent, I am personally, you know me. I don't even find training game to be that important or predictive. I think it's good to get them back on the field. But this version of what we have left in training camp, where you can't do two a days, you can't really hit anymore. It's kind of just try to get the timing down in the passing game is the way I look at training camp. It doesn't really show me much about O-line. It doesn't show me much about D-line. It doesn't show me much about the run game. I think you're talking about, like, the effect of, like, the players having success against other players. But it's very important from the mental side learning the playbook side learning the playbook and timing of the passing game. Those are the three things I think you can actually get down in training game. Run game, I think, is vastly overrated from anything you see in training camp. Past rush, vastly overrated means almost nothing and past production means almost nothing. When we see it, man, the giants are wholly unprepared for a past production standpoint year after year after year, despite showing good signs of it in training camp, and that's every team, man. It's not real, live, you know, it's not what is it? It's no pads, it's, you know, you have some padded practice, you can't hit the quarterback, right? It's fundamentals, which are extremely important. But even then, it's not really tackling fundamentals, right? You can't really go through the full process of that. So it's fundamentals from a technique standpoint, so for pass rushing and pass production. Those are important things. And the introduction to just what the coaching staff is. Introduction. Yes. It's definitely important. It's not like, though, oh, wow, Trey Hawkins, he just shut down Isaiah Hoggins. That means that's where it gets a little bit overhyped, of course. Even though I actually think there's more to do with the passing, like the one on ones of the riders hevers in the corners, to me, that's more than anything you see in the run game in training camp, or into a lot of extent, to me, the past production, which I think is the most wholly overrated when it comes to training camp, and it's very difficult to make that transition from training camp to regular season games, which seem with the giants past production, not just the giants, plenty of the teams, but just to tie it all together, Nick, when you asked about the Bellinger side of this. So if you see him not on the field, right, as they're seeing in these limited media OTAs, they might lead to speculation that he's not going to be a part of the offense. Let's wait, or a part of the team, I should say. Let's wait. I say, let's wait until training camp to see his involvement within the team, right? If he's obviously not practicing then or playing much then or down with the 13 offense, now I'm concerned. Because at the very least, I don't believe training camp can tell you too much about how you're going to play against other real teams in the NFL, but it can tell you about the depth chart, right? That's the one thing you're definitely going to get out of training camp, what the depth chart looks like and how it shapes up. And even then, it could be bullshit or not bullshit, but it can be overcome like we saw with Darius Slaton in 2020. It seemed like Darius Slaton was going out the door in 2022, and then homeboy ended up battling back because David Sills and Kenny Galladay weren't really getting it done. That is a good point, though. He was buried on the depth chart in training camp back in the 2022 season. So it is tough. It's tough to gauge anything from, but I will definitely start to speculate a little bit more on the bell and your situation if he's not playing much in camp, which I don't think is going to be the case because again, I don't think these predictions are based on much at all, but very limited ability, and it's not based on what Brian Dabel's thinking or Joe Shane's thinking. I can tell you that. They're not getting that information. No, they're not. Oh, Phoenix is barking doesn't like something you said. One other thing I want to ask, some of these guys on the Giants roster, Jack Stolen, Chris Mann-Hurt specifically, they're more blockers. How do you think Brian Dabel, Mike Kafka and the Giants offensive coaching staff, Tim Kelly, the tight ends coach, are going to balance putting these tight ends out there and not putting the pass catchers out there all the time in passing situations that would be more so Theo Johnson and Daniel Bellandrix, you don't really want to tip your hand to the defense as to what you're going to do. That's a great question. That's why I'm wondering if there's a possibility that these guys could be used, not both of these guys, but one of these players could be used specifically early on, like you said, you don't want to cap your offense, but as just simply like your extra man and pass production that could leak out occasionally because you even mentioned that some of the production of the tight ends don't even do is just leak out type of production. That could be the same thing. I've seen offenses work like that. And remember, man, Daniel Bellinger was kind of that leak out guy. Now, I think both of us agree that he has a lot more to his skill set, but Tanner Hudson early in that season was the downfield tight end. Remember against the Chicago Bears, I think he caught one near the sideline, or maybe it was another game, but he was also the tight end who was down the field blocking on both of those long Daniel Jones touchdown runs on the play action boots that Daniel did. Get the bears. Yeah. Yeah. But we also saw Tanner Hudson being used down the field. I see Darren Waller. We haven't seen enough, I would argue, of Daniel Bellinger in that role, and I can understand it because his rookie season, he's learning the offense and he's adapting. So let's use other tight ends who are veterans and who are more accustomed to playing in the NFL in that role, which might be a little bit more complex and last year he was competing with Darren Waller. So why would you use Daniel Bellinger in that role this season though? I'm hoping that we do see him up the seam a little bit more hope when we see him run some sale sevens as we saw against the Raiders with Tommy DeVito. I think who hit him on that sale seven after Daniel Jones's injury. So I'm hoping to see that and I'm open to see Theo Johnson in that role as well. But I also just don't want the Giants to tip their hand too much. And it's like every time Chris Mann hurts is on the field, it's a right. Yeah. Right. Yeah, you're right. True. And that could, you don't, anytime, that's the whole point. Like the reason why these great coordinators have worked in the NFL, the McVays of the world is because they do the best job of marrying the past in the run game. That means you can't. And Jason Garrett, this is a big issue for Jason Garrett in my mind when he was coordinator, the Giants he did a really poor job of that. And when you become that kind of coordinator, it makes it really difficult when you have like a receiver coming in, that's an obvious blocking receiver and then emotions back in the formation. It's like, what are you doing, dude? Now you've just really tipped your play off completely. And this guy's never run it. You know, you're only having them on the field in the run plays. So you have to be careful of that. That's why these two-way tight ends are so valuable. It's why in my mind, Nick, if all things, like if we're talking, just ceiling of this position in 2024, to me, it's mostly Bellinger and Theo Johnson taking almost all of the snaps because both of those guys can be two-way tight ends on any even snaps. I'm not saying man hurts and stall can't be two-way tight ends, potentially, or a cage or for that regard, though. A cage ride would probably say can be. But you know for a fact that these guys hit their ceiling, both Bellinger and Theo Johnson can give you that every down. You don't know if it's going to be a run or a pass. I agree. I agree. And as for Stole, I know he's mentioned in the past that he hopes to actually kind of earn a role more as a receiver. He thinks he's a better receiver. And he went down the tight end you with Daniel Bellinger. As Daniel Bellinger told us here on the Big Blue banter podcast. But as for Chris Mannhertz, I think he even said on the Schmelke interview, that was something to the effect of. I have a defined role here on this team that they want me to be the, you know, big presence as a run blocker. And that's what he's been his entire career. I've loved Chris Mannhertz since I started watching him. I think he can actually be a difference maker if he makes this team in a very neat role, where he might only play, you know, 10 snaps a game, nine snaps a game, but they can be very important snaps on first down or whenever or in short yarded situations because the guy is almost like a smaller offensive lineman out there. Yeah. And that's interesting too, because they didn't have that depth that tight ends to do things like that have a niche role, like an eight snap or a game type of role that could help your offense, which also begs me to wonder Nick, like, we're getting tight, like when it comes to roster projections, you're going to keep four tight ends this year, let's say, or five, let's say, gager, which I doubt, but even four is a heavy number. And now you've got this crowd of receiver room, you've got this crowd of running back room. You're running out of numbers from a fifth three man role, especially if you want to keep DeVito off the practice squad, if you're worried about losing him a quarterback, now you have three quarterbacks. So it is interesting to see where they're going to find where they're going to pluck that player or two and cut him because of just the numbers game. But I hope I honestly hope it doesn't come from the tight end group. Because I even if it's only eight to 10 snaps a game, I'd like to have a Chris Mannhertz type on the team. Same, I'm wondering if there's going to be a roster spot battle between man hurts and stole. Like, let's say Daniel Bellinger is safe, Theo Johnson is safe and say Lawrence Cajer. They just love them. And they want them to make the thing. It does seem like they have valued him since they added him to the to their practice squad and then elevated him against the Seattle Seahawks in 2022. We saw like a design play in the red zone for him and then another wheel route for him in that game, this first game as a New York giant. But there might be only one spot for Chris Mannhertz and Jack stole for the reasons that you just said. Tyree Jackson is also on the roster. I want to throw his name out there. I think he's more of a long shot former Buffalo quarterback going back to his college days, but he's also on the roster for Philadelphia Eagle. But yeah, that could be a that could be an interesting camp battle. And I do like Jack Stole's game as like a third tight end, but I do think Chris Mannhertz just brings something so profound to the offense for a niche role, just something that giants haven't seen since. I don't even know who it was like Bear Pasco somebody who was somewhat comparable, but I don't even think he was. No, not a man who was like more of a big H back who would it be if the Giants had a Chris Mannhertz type one was the last like obviously if you go back to like in Martell has been it someone. And but he was just a dynamic runner dynamic receiver. Yeah. But my point is he was he had a great blocking ability. He was obviously far beyond Chris Mannhertz. We haven't had a pure blocking day like Jake Ballard, maybe he had some receiving chops to him. So much receiving. All right. Again, but who knows? Maybe Mannhertz has that, but I don't know. You know, maybe that's more of a Jack Stole type if you're going to look for the baller comp. But I think that's a good call. Yeah. But it's an interesting group. I'm hoping they keep forward to be honest and and in that for would not include Cager for me. It would be the other three. Again, I think Jack Stole and you may think they're similar Jack Stole manners. I think Stole, I agree with Stole. I think he has more receiving chops than people realize I went back and looked at some of the times equals actually use him the passing game during these Dallas Goddard injuries. And I thought I saw pretty like a more a better athlete than I was expecting to see going out there. And sometimes you just don't get opportunities in the passing game giants have had this happened throughout the years. You know, Daniel Bellinger, I feel like has been underutilized in the passing game. We can be really honest based on what I've seen. And he's not the first guy who's gone through this. No, he's not. And he probably won't be the last guy unfortunately. That's happened. That's what happens at the tight imposition. To be honest, it's not always a big part of the offense, especially if you're billed as like the blocking type. But we'll see what happens, it's a group that I think is not star-studded but has more upside than people realize and more importantly, the depth the Giants didn't have last season is now there. And again, if they are struggling in pass production with Evan Neal, now you at least have a proven guy like Chris Manner to come in and provide for you a six man pass protection. So Chris Manhertz has been in the NFL since 2016. He has 26 career receptions. Daniel Bellinger has been in the NFL for two years, 25 in 2023 alone. And then he had 33 in 2022. And you're going to play a lot of games because you got injured in 2020. No, yeah, exactly. I got punched in the eye by that Jaguars linebacker, Jaguars, Jaguars. Jaguars. Jaguars. No. No. It sounds very indistinguishable to me. Not to me. You're using an I and I'm using a like a noir, like an OI, you know, like I heard of a noir. Noir? Yeah. Like a film noir? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I. Oh, I is the sound you're looking for. Okay. This is fun. This has been a fun podcast, everybody. But yes, I think it's going to be interesting, though, to see the the camp battle between who was going to because there's several camp battles here in the tight end room. There's who's going to earn that primary tight end role. There's who's going to be in the 12 personnel package. And there's going to be who the hell is going to make the roster. And then there's the Lawrence Cager factor, which I feel like is somewhat separate than this. Obviously he falls into who's going to make the roster. He's a completely different skill set than really any of these guys because he's just basically a big, tall, fast, wide receiver who is deemed a tight end. Yeah, exactly. And so we'll see what happens. Thank you so much for tuning into Big Blue Band or podcasts is another position preview. Keep it locked and loaded. Hard knocks episode two is coming out tomorrow. And so or when I don't know when this will drop, it's probably coming out Wednesday the hard. Now Wednesday for us. Oh, yeah. For us as far as the episode will be Tuesday, we'll be recording on Wednesday, most likely for that. And then we want to get back into some other things we haven't been doing as much this offseason that have always been fun. So mailbacks. We're going to do some mailbacks coming up soon, maybe a live show as well. So those are two good off season things to get back into. So we'll talk about that off pod and we'll get that going for you guys, but end girls. But thank you so much. By the way, I still, you know, one problem I have, Nick, which I'm trying to fix is still referred to people as guys when I mean, you know, guys and girls is what I mean. It's just like an old habit. Yeah. Hey guys, what's up guys? Like that's everything. But you know, you don't want to say that anymore. You people, I should say, or guys and girls. I'll just say everyone who's listening, I don't want to miss gender anyone or do anything like that. So thank you to everyone who's listening and supporting our show. But again, remember, we're going to have some mailbase coming up, some lives, recap and hard knocks going to do everything we can do to get you through. I actually saw something interesting as well, Nick, we don't have the film. I've been looking for the film of the Giants playoff runs to break down. We don't have that. But there are full games. We don't want to do like a just broadcast angle breakdown. Maybe we can consider that for some of these games if we can't get the film. But I still would like to get all 22 on some of the Giants playoff games. Anyone has it, reach out to Nick or I, Nick or me and get that going. But anyway, have a great rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon. [BLANK_AUDIO]
