(upbeat music) - This episode is brought to you by Experian. Are you paying for subscriptions you don't use, but can't find the time or energy to cancel them? Experian could cancel unwanted subscriptions for you, saving you an average of $270 per year, and plenty of time. Download the Experian app. Results will vary. Not all subscriptions are eligible. Savings are not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. Welcome back. It's the big blue banter. New York Giants football podcast. I'm Dan Schneider. Jones is always my coolest Nick Folado, losing my voice a little, but I'm fired up because I had a lot of fun, Nick. I'm fired up. I had a lot of fun watching hard knocks, episode one Giants. And I think part of that fun for me was obviously because it's our Giants. And we get to see this inside scoot. Like it's crazy to see Joe Shane have these conversations. The people who are in the room. Brian Dable wasn't even in the room for a lot of these conversations. It was also surprising. Just a ton of things we're gonna get into in the show, but it's just cool to see that of your own show. And I will say this unbiased, not because we're watching the Giants. This is a much more fun version of hard knocks to me than the training camp version that we've seen for the last six years from NFL films and from HBO. I'm just not that interested in these dumb for training camp practice. We've seen already what training camp can be with the Giants. We know very well last year, lights out offense and training camp. They couldn't move the football. Two years ago, the offense can't move the ball. They had their best offensive season in like five years. So like we know training camp is what it is. This is cool stuff. We're learning about the process of building this for all some of the offseason, the conversation they had. So I absolutely loved the first episode. And then I saw it today, Nick. I'm Art Stapleton, that we're gonna like the second episode, even better. So I'm pretty amped up, we're getting this content. - I'm pretty amped up about it too. What I loved probably, I would say equally to what I watched on hard knocks is people's takes on Twitter about it and how different they are and how people are arguing about certain things that now certain people are just, I would say I have completely different interpretations or looking very far into things where there might not be something there, but it adds to the fun. Because right now, Dan, this is the most boring part of the NFL Cali. So now, at least as one of the 32 teams, we can talk about this as a fan base and we can kind of get a little glimpse, which I found very interesting into Joe Shane's process in the front office process, which is pretty clandestine, probably isn't the right word, but it's not something that is open to people like you and me or anybody who really watches football. - That's the cool part because we were talking about this before the show and I'm like, yeah, a lot of these things, we assumed Nick that they were operating under, like, for example, as we'll get to, like Joe Shane's discussions about the running back position, the price of it, the market paying guys on 27, the studies that say once they're 27, you don't pay them, all that stuff that we'll get into. We assumed all that, but we didn't know it for sure. And now there's like actual proof, these are the conversations they have, which is crazy to me and also cool. And like you said, we're at a stage of the off season where we need something. We need something to get excited about this team, I think, 'cause we can do all the preview shows and they're fun, but this is real stuff. And I do agree with you about the reactions. I've seen some fun ones. And I will say this to those, all those reactions. Just keep in mind a few things. One, the Giants have final say over everything HBO airs. Two, I'm not gonna report how, but I've heard that some players have some say over what's going on and what's not in the show. And that's not, wouldn't be new, 'cause that's happened on previous hard knocks where players have had to say two over what gets aired. And three, what Dan Duggan said, which is, it did very much so feel like at least one or two of those conversations were for the camera. The first one, Nick being the conversation, Joe Shane and Brian Dable had one-on-one about hiring Shane Bowen. They essentially talked about like, you're, Brian Dable's reading them off stats like already, just before making the call, like, first of all, we know like days went into this process of deciding on who to hire. It wasn't like a last second Hail Mary from Dable, like take a look at these rundy French stats and these third down stats machines like, all right, make the call, we got our guy. Like decision was made before that. So that one felt a little fake. And I kind of feel like the, the Joe Shane one with Brandon Brown and I forget who else, maybe McDonald about Daniel Jones around the little kind of just maybe for the cameras as well. Like he's reeling off his injury history and all these things that like these two dudes in the room, obviously know all of like, he's breaking no ground to them whatsoever. So people have looked into a lot. Like you said it right into it and had takes on social media. But I almost feel like what you said may be true. Like it might be reading a little too much into it. - When you have final say over the editorial process, you're not going to really allow anything that journalists would jump at and want to write a story. I think there are a lot of cool key takeaways. i.e. how Isaiah Simmons is going to be used, even though we probably figured he would be used in a role like Shane Bowen said, where he is probably going to be a money down backer on third down and how linebackers are very important. I thought like listening to Shane Bowen talk about his defense, those are things that we have assumed over the last what? Like three months or so, four months. But now we're starting to hear him mentioned writer Anderson's name and Boogie Bashim, is Boogie Bashim going to be a bigger deal. I would argue, just listening to them talk about the defensive line free agents when they were bringing up Chris Jones, and when they were bringing up Christian Wilkins, and they were talking about pairing Dexter Lawrence with an interior defensive lineman, an attacking penetrator. And they're like, yeah, Christian Wilkins, you know, he's not really like, I think Chris Rosetti, who came off looking well there, but I think he said something to the effect of, yeah, you know, he's not really a great pass rusher. And then I was like, who the giants have on their roster who's half of Christian Wilkins who can play next to him? Nobody, nobody, absolutely nobody. - And I know that from what you said at least, Dexter Lawrence, for what they said on the show, Dexter Lawrence, great friends with Christian Wilkins, they're like actually like best friends. So I'll two cases of that, by the way. Like the trade the giants made with Dan Morgan, by the way, the Caroline Panda's GM, after Joe Shane showed that whole thing like his family's going on vacation and stuff, I was like, we got a soft, like, he did not, I'm doubting that Morgan pushback better, I mean, it went from, they were offered two ones from the Rams, two off seasons ago to him suggesting, some people say as a joke, Morgan at the East West Shrine, whatever that was, let's do a one and something to getting it down to just a two and a five. Like that's a big, big jump down to go from the one to the two there. And the five is like, and something, that ends something as a five. So maybe that relationship played a role. I think Bobby Skinner had this take or someone had this take Nick and I agree 100% with it. It was a great take. The best part of Joe Shane's 10 years so far has been the way he's traded. Is everything he's done in the trade market, every single trade to me has been shrewd. He's done a great job with all of them from this for the Leonard Williams. Like, this is where he understands how to do this role of general manager the best. And obviously it's only one part of the job, but I was really impressed watching him kind of talk there. And I'm sure we're gonna get more of that when we get to the draft though. I'm sure they won't show everything on that. - No, no, they shouldn't. But you could also look at the flip side, just to play devil's advocate and people would throw a lot of cold water on the Darren Waller trade. I'm not one of those people, but I understand why someone did, right? Like it was a calculated risk. We brought it up back then. If you want to surround Daniel Jones with past catches, you're not gonna be able to go out and get a tee Higgins or Brandon Iyuk. Might as well bring in Darren Waller and assume the risk because your training staff was so superior around the league to limiting those soft tissue injuries. It didn't really happen last time. - I don't like to do that. - I understand the risk. - I hear you, Nick, on that, that funny front. But I think this is more an issue with the player that they couldn't have predicted before. They had traded for him because to be honest, it's like Joe Shanoi says, when we go through the interview process in the draft, we get to know these players and that's why we spend the time we spend on these players. He didn't get that with Darren Waller. So it's just kind of a trade, not knowing and the guy decides to retire a year after the trade at 29 or 30 years old. Like that's just so hard for me to blame a GM for that. And in addition to that, I still want people to keep in perspective, Nick. They gave a pick 100. What comes a pick 100 in the NFL? I guarantee you, if we look at the last 20 pick 100s in the NFL, we're gonna struggle to find consistent starters for more than two or three seasons across the board. There'll be maybe one or two in the last. I'm gonna go as far as 20 drafts, such as the guests based on the history, but that's a 100 pick, it may be a little higher. Four, five, six starters, maybe at most, but I highly doubt that. So to me, it's a small cost. The opportunity cost just wasn't there. 'Cause Brandon and I, you click, you mentioned, that's a first round pick, if you want it. That's what the 49ers are asking. So it is what it is on that front, but it was cool to see that process. - Yeah, I agree, man. So where do we want to go next? - Maybe you know what, let's get to the big one, the Sigmund Barkley one, should we get there? - Yeah, let's do it. - Okay, we're gonna start on that, 'cause there's like three different things I want to talk on. What struck you the most on that, let's start there. - We've been kind of talking about a lot on this podcast, over the last three years. Once you start getting up to 26, 27, and you have a lot of injuries, typically don't get paid by teams who are allocating $40 million to their quarterback position and have a shitty roster. So, and Joe Shane brought it up I think two times, maybe two or three times. How Daniel Jones is making $40 million, and now Sigmund Barkley has been injured and how it's not a net positive move. He said, "I don't want a $40 million quarterback a year "handing the football off to a $12 million running back." It's basically saying like Daniel Jones, the ball is really in your court right now, and we are honestly gonna do everything in our power to protect you with a better offensive line. And we also saw they opened the show during the draft with Joe Shane saying something like, "Oh, Malik neighbors be there, be there." So you got that star playmaker who can play wide receiver now for Daniel Jones. And now it's, hey, we either out of this contract next year with Daniel Jones, he brought up, yeah, we have him under control for the next three years. He also mentioned like, this is gonna be the guy for the next 10 years. So it's, again, Dan, I know it sounds crazy, but it's another like, hey, Daniel Jones, go out there and prove it. This is like the fifth year in a row, but I think it's very safe to say that he has not had a great situation. Hopefully this one will be better. - Yeah, and you hope that and it could be. I mean, we expect it to be, right? And like neighbors should be short fire. I guess in a lot of ways it does all come down to the offensive line, taking the jump we need, which to me, again, Nick, like, we'll talk about this more in the next few weeks and then obviously through training camp in the preseason, but it's annoying to me, dude, that like I'm most worried about Evan Neal. Like, why should that not be my biggest worry, dude? If anything, I should have less worry about a sixth overall pick that look great on tape in college at Alabama. And even like John Runyon, who's proven some of the NFL level, but isn't like a star, like that should be your rock there. And it's just, that to me is still the one I wanna see, especially now with him coming back slow off the ankle injury, but back to the Barkley part of it. What I thought was interesting. Yeah, we talked about this before and yeah, I could have assumed it, Nick, but I really thought that conversation at the Combine, or not at the Combine, I think that was the East West Shrine, between Joe Shane and Frankor, which is so funny, by the way, because Frankor joined the Bills super late, super late into his career, helped them scout and find him in Singletary as Joe Shane mentioned. Like, they found him as like a mid-round pick, but Frankor was insanely productive late into his career and Joe Shane's standing there right in front of his face being like, yeah, he's like, what do you think of Barkley? He's like, nah, 27, like, he's like, and I thought it was, Shane had it right off the opposite. He's like, he had 900 carries combined at Penn State, 900 touches, he's got this injury, that injury, that injury. He's 27 and the agent next to him goes, don't you know, don't do, I heard, and this is what the agent said, I heard that there's a, that you guys say at 27, once you get that number, no more, can't pay the guy. And Joe Shane goes, yeah, there's a study and that study we've cited before on this podcast, like three straight years, we say that's like, I put it on Twitter, people are going nuts about, they're like, this is bullshit, this is a fake study, I don't believe this, no NFL team would ever use this study. - We literally heard Joe Shane citing it in this episode, so I thought that was me was just wild to hear. - That coupled with Joe Shane mentioning like, oh, I've lost like 10 years off my life dealing with the Saguan Barkley contract situation last year, also with the fact that we got a snippet of another episode that's coming in the future of Joe Shane saying like, hey, Barkley, you're gonna give us a chance, it seems like it was a burden weighing on Joe Shane, 'cause Joe Shane probably had some sort of internal conflict. Understanding how important Saguan Barkley is to New York, to this franchise, to that team, to that locker room, and how all of those are important, but also he is an aging running back with an injured history, with a quarterback now making so much money. So I think Barkley leaving, I'm sure you didn't wanna go to the Philadelphia Eagles, but Barkley leaving did kind of take a little bit off of his shoulders, a little bit of a burden, might have left him. But at the same time, there were some little contradictions, and I think Dan Duggan pointed this out, but it was very obvious too, just watching the show, where he was talking to John Mera about, yeah, we can find people later, and for agency, we can be patient on the running back market, it's a saturated market right now, but on day one, they went out, they're like, no, Devin Singletare is our guy, boom, and they just like locked Singletare up real quick. - Yeah, that was really interesting, and I ultimately think that probably has a lot to do with the running back market developing much faster than Joe Shane said, or assume, than their team assumed it would, 'cause for example, you have to play the market, if you have a projection going in, like, oh, the running back market will be dry, we'll wait to the second level, and things change, 'cause it's just like an auction fantasy you have, you know this, Nick, 'cause you play these. Things change in the auction, dynamic can change really fast, you have to adjust on the fly, if you stay with your original strategy, you're screwed, so, first day of free agency, first moment, DeAndre Swift signs that big deal with the Bears, I haven't told you yet, came out right away. - You were gonna let him. - Sparks the mark, 'cause once that one contract's in, every single other contract shapes around that, so now you're Shane, you're thinking, well, I thought I could just chill on this thing, and we'd see contracts trickle in over the next few days, and then I'd be like on day eight, like, hey, you're still having been signed, let's do it, and then he's a little bit worried, so, I actually like that move. - I'm not saying I don't like the move either, but DeAndre Swift, too, was on the giants list of running backs they were breaking down, along with Tony Pollard, along with Devin Singletary, along with Zach Moss. - Austin Echler. - Austin Echler's name came up, but I think that's a really good point, and there was something that was said, and I don't remember exactly who said it, it might have been Joe Shane, but it was, yeah, Devin Singletary, like he could be resigned by Houston, and it was like intimated that he said something to that effect because he basically usurped Damian Pierce. - Right. - So Matt also played into it, and they just really brought Brian Dable and the coaching staff valued Devin Singletary as a replacement, too sick, while Barkley for this team, and obviously a much cheaper price, so maybe that's one reason why they were just like, all right, screw it, we're not gonna wait, we're just gonna go out and get a guy that we're very comfortable with. - Love that point you just made, because that stood out to me in the episode, and he's like, he, this guy won the job in Houston, like he was not supposed to win the job, he was going as the two, they were gonna use him as the two all year, and he earned the job the right to be the one. I also thought you mentioned earlier, Rosetti came off looking great in this episode, I thought his best moment by far was part of the early episode, Rosetti, when he was, when the Giants were talking about Sake on Barkley's market, and Rosetti was like, look, he's still the only difference maker on this market, I don't care about it, they're like Josh Jacobs, you know, didn't he lead the NFL in rushing one year? He's like, yeah, two years ago, he's like, this is the difference maker on the market, and he said, for us, it doesn't make sense, for a team like the Eagles who have an offensive line, and the luxury of this, it does make sense, I thought that point was so perfect, 'cause like, it's the point I've been trying to make on Twitter, but it's people who don't understand it, 'cause they're gonna, you know, when Barkley has an amazing year, the Eagles are gonna come back like, the Giants were such idiots, they were so wrong for letting him go without even understanding that they're saying this at the same time, while they always complain about the offensive line with Jones, the same people are probably gonna be not factoring it in, I don't wanna blame, it's just, it's okay, but like, remember, the offensive line for the Giants is still bad, and the offensive line for the Eagles is elite, so obviously Sake on Barkley's gonna have a good season there, which is what he was saying, Rosetti, I thought it was so interesting, he's like, the Eagles, he's worth the money to us, he's not, and that could easily be the case. - Yeah, he got a lot of FaceTime, he's the director of pro scouting for the New York Giants, and free agency is his bag, and they talked a lot about free agency in this first episode, they were talking about the defense of Lyman, Brian Burns, his name came up, they were talking about the running back position, I wish we learned a little bit more about where they were looking cornerback-wise, we didn't really get to see that. - Nothing like the corners. - Yeah, that's something I am interested in, because I still think they could use an upgrade there, and if they actually mentioned certain names, then maybe we could have gained an idea of what Shamboen truly is looking at instead of assuming. - I got a little conspiracy theory mini, what if the guys they were looking at, and they had a whole segment like that, are still in the market, and they don't want to give away their hand? - Oh, that's 100%, oh, that wouldn't even be a conspiracy theory, that's what happened, I mean, they obviously had the conversations. - 'Cause it's not like they were-- - Yeah, right, some would obviously be snapped up, but those guys, some of those guys could still be around, and a couple more points on the Barkley thing, one thing Joe Shane said, Nick, was we want to make sure, and this was smart, we want to make sure that we can take that 12 million and allocate it to the offensive line, that was something he was clear about in his conversation with John Mayer, and we know the Eagles with Barkley are putting him behind a great offensive line, he doesn't want to put Barkley back behind a bad O line, Joe Shane, he wants to put a good O line out there, and then put a different runner behind a good O line, at this point it can't be Barkley, that's fine, that's how the time played itself, it didn't time out right, Barkley never got a good O line with the Giants, he's gonna get one with the Eagles, but we gotta give whoever that next back is a good O line, and I liked it, he said, let's reallocate those 12 million resources to the offensive line. - Of course, and you know the offensive line helps the rushing game, but the essence of what he is also saying is we're paying a quarterback a lot of money, let's let that quarterback be that quarterback too, yeah, because that offensive line has been his biggest tequila, rightfully, right? I mean, look at what Daniel Jones has played behind his entire career, it has not been great, so let's actually fix this up, and we'll see if Jermaine Aluminor, John Runyon, Aaron Steen, and Schottmann are guys who can help achieve that goal, I'm hoping, you know, I'm more optimistic than I have been in past years where people thought the offensive line has been fixed, but I still don't know if it's gonna be great because of Evan Lille, as you brought up, and he's really, he's the one who could like-- - I'm like fine on everyone else, but Neil, that's the crazy part, I think I think Illinois and Runyon, they're not gonna be amazing, but they're gonna do their jobs like pros, and that's gonna help John Michael Schmitz 'cause he's actually playing next to two pros, and that's fine, the interior thing is gonna be pretty intact, Andrew Thomas, you never worry about, and this helps too 'cause Andrew Thomas would be fully healthy, so we know he's gonna get Island responsibilities out there, which helps the rest of the line, should help theoretically, but then it's that final piece, that Evan Lille piece on the outside, that's just the one that's killing me right now because he's coming off this stupid surgery, and he's not fully healthy yet, I don't love that. - Yeah, and I don't have delusions of grandeur about the interior all for the while, I just don't have them to be like league average, and I think they can be, like John Runyon, I watched his tape with the Packers, and I was like a little bit indifferent, and I was like, I get it 'cause you need to bring in that are an offensive lineman, but he's not like this true huge difference maker, but he's gonna be a massive upgrade over any of the guards that the Giants had last season, and that's all, I think any giant fans are looking for right now. But you spoke a little bit about Joe Shane and John Merrin, their conversation, and that was pretty funny too, because John Merrin, he's like, you know, best worlds, we get to keep Saquon Barkley, like he was all about like kind of retaining, Saquon Barkley was talking about, you know, and if we don't, we gotta draft somebody high, because John Merrin's definitely that guy in fantasy football, like he's like your buddy who drafts like three running backs in a row. - Aah, robust RB. - Robust RB, and then like he has three wide receivers, he has to start, and his starting wide receiver is like-- - It's like Darnell Mooney. - Yeah, it's like Darnell Mooney, you know? - And like two of those three backs, he drafted rounds one, two or three injured, by like week six, and he's just like struggling, he's in the bottom of the standings, and he's like, and he does the trade where he like trades one of his running backs for your shitty receivers, so that's what he is. I agree with you, and he also, within that, he was like, yeah, perfect world, I like that Merrin brushing you do, I'm trying to copy it, 'cause it's-- - That was pretty good that what you just did right there. - You just gotta get deep, I guess, and just do it like that. But perfect world, I still think we have to sign him. And he didn't even say like, then we have to, he's like, well, then what are we gonna do? Draft are running back high, like he's like, the only other option that I can think of here is rather running back high, like, if we don't get Barkley, what can we do? It's draft one high, it's like, no, dude, there are other options here, build your offensive line. Also, your offense isn't gonna be, he's like, we're losing a big chunk of our offense, but lose Barkley. Yeah, guess what, that offense sucked. It scored the least fewest points last year since 19th, like ever in Giants history, and the year before, it wasn't much better. That was their best year. Then 2020 wasn't better, 2019, 2018, they never scored points with Barkley. What do you care about losing this chunk of your offense? Let's go for a different offense. You can be like, what? - I wanna put on the conspiratorial New York Giants fan hat that I was mentioning before and say, maybe John Marrow reacted that way because he's not as sold on the passing attack, and Tim McDonald also made it a quote similar to that. It's like, whoever the quarterback is, say it's Daniel Jones, we gotta be like a run first. He said something to that effect, and I think you can interpret that in a couple of different ways, but it also could be certainly interpreted like, hey, we have a quarterback who can't carry the load. And maybe that's what John Marrow was basically in his mind and behind the scenes, obviously not mentioned on camera, it's like, I don't know if we could trust having a quarterback without a star running back. And I think that's conspiratorial, but it's also fun to just throw it out there and see how people will get to it. - It's not the worst idea in it, because I think what he's focused, we've always talked about is about, it's important about being out there. - And also, I just wanna say, 'cause conspiratorial wouldn't really make sense in that, 'cause there's no conspiracy people aren't working together. But it's just like, you know, it's something that might be-- - I know what you mean, it's something that might not be. - It might not have. - Well, that's better. - Yeah, it might have a call. But you know what, I think it's actually a strong take in not saying it's right, but it's possible because remember with Marrow, I've just said this before, but it's so important to reiterate, his ideal goal is very different than ours, Nick. You know how we are. We want them to build a roster that can compete for a Super Bowl every year. His goal is to put together a good team that fills the stadium out where we get to those final home games, those last two, and the stadium is filled with Giants fans, and they're cheering and they can get to eight and not nine and eight, and hit the last wild card seven spot. He doesn't really care much past then, but he needs them to be in that wild card mix every year. So to him, he just, if he feels better when those seats, you know, the stadium is filled with Giants fans at the end of his season. It's very important to him. So for him, he's like, "Shit, we're going to lose Barkley. Now our offense is going to be really bad. How the hell am I going to fill these seats?" And I don't think he thinks of our money stamp. It's more just like an ego standpoint of like, we're not the laughingstock at the end of it. He's more concerned with not being the laughingstock than being the actual champion contender every year, in my mind at least. So I think it's part of it. - I think he, I mean, I think ideally he would love to be the champion. It's just unrealistic. It's very difficult for him to be a perennial. How many teams have been a perennial over the last-- - Good question. - Years. There really hasn't been many that have been-- - I wonder what we would answer that with. Like going into last year, we would say the Niners, I would say all of Niners bills, bangles, and chiefs, you could say no to bangles, but I would say burrow got hurt. That doesn't count. - I agree. - They're in the mix every year. Those four, I would say for sure. I don't know if we add any. Some people would say Baltimore 'cause of Lamar. - I think I would say Baltimore because of their defense and Lamar. - They kind of like let down relative to the amount of talent they have. But they're always competitive. And then you have like weird teams like Miami Dolphins. It's like, you know, I don't-- - That I wouldn't count for any of them. - They're very exciting and they're very strong. And there's a lot of momentum around them and their coaches is of-- - Eagles deserve in the mix. - Of course. - Sort of. - Kind of, sort of though. They really haven't done it though. It's crazy they're supposed to. - They want to do it. - This is a good bar for the Giants fans. We need to link if you're thinking long term a little bit. Little 30,000 of a view. The NFC doesn't have that many perennial contenders involved besides the Niners and kind of the Eagles, though I feel a little weird about those Eagles roster going forward. They've dished out a lot of money. They have a lot of void contracts coming up. Jalen Hurts takes up a lot of cap. Arkely takes up a lot of cap. They're old lines. They're not getting younger than the old line. They're having like-- - I don't know anything about this really, but is that lawsuit that the NFL is suffering through with the NFL Sunday ticket gonna affect the salary capital? - Who tweeted that? Oh, Justin Pugh actually just tweeted that out. - I know I saw that somewhere, but I was thinking about it too. 'Cause I got NFL Sunday ticket as well. So like that's not been titled to something. - You're gonna get like 240 bucks, I think. - Either way, I don't know if this is a class action lawsuit. I'm not even 100% sure what the issue was, but will that actually affect the cap? Is this like insured by some sort of insurance company that the NFL has? Like I honestly, I'm unaware. - I don't know either. - If it does, could you imagine if it somehow affected these teams that were, I don't think it would be, but if it somehow affected those teams that have been kicking the cat can like crazy down and you have been like the saints and eagles? I don't think so, but I would be-- - That's what Pugh says. He says it's gonna hurt the browns and eagles because they rely heavily on the cap increasing every year. - I don't think that Justin Pugh was saying that? - That's Justin Pugh's saying. I don't think he's right, but that's what he tweeted out. He said they've hit on those players and it's worked out. They've done a ton of front loading cash and spreading out signing bonus, but this Sunday ticket lawsuit could impact salary cap, which when it should turn would hurt teams like the eagles and browns because they rely heavily on the cap increasing every year. 'Cause it is true, like if the NFL gets crushed by this suit, they're not gonna keep increasing the cap. Like it's gonna stay stagnant for a little while and then bounce back up. So it is interesting to think about 'cause the Giants have been cap healthy, which is a plus in that column and eagles are the opposite of cap healthy. - Did you think they spent too much time on the PB and J's with Joe Shane? - Oh, he's the, I felt like they spent a little bit too much time talking about it. - Well, it's better for you. - I don't think they said anything about the schmuckers. They were obviously schmuckers and I'm wondering if that was like an advertising thing. We can have their image in there but we just can't say their name. - 100% because if you saw Shane at the East West Shrine, he was holding a cup of coffee and it was clearly a Starbucks logo. They like blurred it out. But like everyone in the world knows that's a Starbucks logo. So it's like, good job there, Giants. You got that one through. I was laughing at that and I was also laughing at Joe Shane's, what was it? Is it grandma or grandma saying that Sam Hartman's very handsome and I'm just like, oh. (laughing) - It might be 95, but I'm not blind, baby. - I can't, I feel blessed that there are people who say I even look like him. I'm like, that's the thing. He's such a-- - You know you're living a good clean life if you hear that ever from anyone. That's what, that's a comparison you get. - Most people are way too kind to me. I'll tell you that much 'cause that's a hand. - They get, they get run with it. - But if you Kirk Cousins, Jane Daniels. All right, we're getting off on a tangent, but like-- - Kirk Cousins, Jane, oh my God. - He's like, I can't, honestly, Nick. I've seen him-- - I'm not drinking about Sam Hartman to think that has any chance of happening. And I think Jane Daniels could be like a real thing too. - Unless about Jayden, sure on Jayden, as I am sure that Sam Hartman does not have NFL talent. No offense, he's a great looking guy. - People said that-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, come on, he could do a lot of that. - Hey, you can see that. You don't have to be grandma, whoever. Like you said, she's blind. - Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess, my 100th mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, honestly, when I started this, I thought I'd only have to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. - How are there still people paying two or three times that much? So I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at midmobile.com/save whenever you're ready. - $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes of CD-Tails. - You ever feel sluggish and we're out of focus? Are you stressed? Has your digestive system calls discomfort or flatulence like a certain co-host on this podcast during a live stream? If so, you should check out AG1. When I started drinking AG1 daily, I could feel a real difference in my daily health. 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Whether you're here in New York, New Jersey, Arizona, if you will, or hundreds of other locations across the globe, access to a center is easy and affordable. Interested in experiencing the EE system technology for yourself? Go to unifiedhealing.com/bantar to learn more and find a center near you. That's u-n-i-f-y-dhealing.com/bantar. No material or testimonials on the unified healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment. And before undertaking the new healthcare regimen, include EE system. - Okay, Nick, one other thing we got some insight on finally. It's like we've needed this insight because it's been like a two, three year long speculation on Giants Twitter about what the relationship is from Giants owner to Giants GM. We never knew it with Dave and John. We never knew it with John Marin, who was, you know, Jerry Rees. We never knew it with a lot of these GMs and we never knew it with John Marin and Joe Shane. There's so much speculation on Giants Twitter. We actually got to see them have conversations and talk and we got to see what the input was actually worth. So what were your takeaways from actually getting some insight on what role John Marin actually does have over what football decisions the Giants make? - First off again, Giants have editorial control over this, right? - Yep. - Now, John Marin is delegating to the general managers. People are watching that and they're saying, look, this is Joe Shane making all the decisions definitely and I agree with that. But this is still at the end of the day, John Maristine, he's still the owner of the Giants. And I think if he has an idea of what he wants to be achieved, if it has to do with personnel or whatnot, I don't think Joe Shane is just going to take that idea and be like, yeah, now 100%, this is what we're doing. But say if Joe Shane was battling between a decision and it was 45, 55% John Marist came in and maybe went on the side of the 45% maybe it would elevate it a little bit more. Like that might be something if it's within the realm of what Joe Shane wants to accomplish anyways and it makes sense from a financial standpoint. I think that's where the owner ownership kind of comes in but if John Marist loves JJ McCarthy and Joe Shane didn't, I don't think necessarily John Marist can force Joe Shane to draft JJ McCarthy, like some of the other ones around the league. - Well, yeah, I agree with you on that because I never really felt like he was that kind of helicopter owner. If you want to use that term, like some of these owners are. I know there's been speculation among Giants fans there is and it's with regards to Daniel Jones, Eli Manning. Obviously he has some, you know, say, he's not just like sitting back and be like, do whatever he wants. We saw a conversation with him and Joe about Sake wants. So there's something going on there. But ultimately I do feel confident that Joe Shane is making these decisions, whatever they may be for the Giants. - Yes, same here. Now, I think in the past there have been decisions that were made and signed off on by John Mera and then other decisions later on, say let's Odell Beckham Jr. trade. I don't think Dave Gettleman had carte blanche to just trade Odell Beckham Jr. I think he probably had to get that signed off by Joe Mera and then after the little wing and a Josina Anderson interview. I think that kind of gave the preemptive, hey, you can trade this guy if you find a deal that makes sense. I still think that element of ownership is there but it's still his football team. Like that, I don't think that's the most unreasonable thing, especially if the owner himself is reasonable to trust his general manners, which I believe he is, especially when you look at some of the other owners around the league. - I think that's fair. I think it's a good take. And I don't, I never felt, again, I never felt like we're in bad hands with Mera to an extent. It's not like the greatest owner. Yeah, but it's fine for the most part. It's we got to do better with the football decisions here. We got to get the loser. Like, Evan Neal has it. That type of shit has to happen. You can't get nothing out of a Josh's dude. Shit like that has to, you know, really come around, in my opinion, for football teams to turn around. And we'll see what that happens. I have one more point here. I don't know if I missed anything and you can, I'll let you get that at the end if we forgot anything. But I did like how Shane Bowen had that meeting where he talked about his defense. He said, what I want, he talked about, oh, yeah, we like interior pass rushers. But he also said our defense is going to live and die and having four elite pass rushers. He had gave on Thibodeau inherited Dexter Lawrence. And he went out and he got Brian Burns. He now has three. And he's getting very close to what he says, allows his defense to function at its fullest, which is having a great front four pass rushers. - Who's that fourth guy? - For now the hope is his ease. - Yes, now I think third and six plus, you might see Ziegler-Laurie out there. I think you can use Isaiah Simmons on a money. - I'm so glad, like, they deliberately put his name in there because Ryan's obviously re-signed him. And they were like, yeah, first and second down, he could play nickel in base. Or he can just kind of be outside that apex defender overhand. - Right. - He's athletic enough to do that and guard tight ends or whatnot. And then on third down, he can blitz. He can do a variety of different things for you. And he might be able to work into that rotation. 'Cause I'm looking at the Giants' depth chart. And they brought up Boogie and Ryder as we brought up a little bit earlier in the podcast. But who is that fourth guy? Say if it's second and eight, it's a passing situation. Do you wanna put his ease out there and then risk the run? If his ease, Ziegler-Laurie does not anchor down as well against the run. And that kind of ends up being an exploitable part of this defense. Jordan Phillips is massive. He's not necessarily that penetrating type of guy. It does seem like it would be Boogie Bashum or Ryder Anderson. But like, that's not inspiring much, is it? - No, it's not. Not for now. - For now. - Of course, training camp could tell a different story. - We could. And I still think there's the story of, you know, the two players who flashed at times last year's penetrators, mostly based on their knockback skills, which is DJ Davidson and Jordan Riley. I still think there's a potential story for those guys to be helpful on those passing downs. We'll see. I need to see more obviously into a huge jump, which is possible for players of their age and their inexperience, the NFL. But those guys, I'm still keeping in mind as a potential penetrator, especially Jordan Riley. - Also, I found it very interesting that they talked about intelligence at the linebacker position being the catalyst to the defense. And two base defense, Shane Bowen said, three defense of lineman, two edge. So it's that five man front. It's when he's talking about base. So he's talking about like more of a three, four odd type of look, two linebackers and then defensive backs. Now, Mike McFadden and Bobby O'Kareke. You also got to like factor in. And I know this is a six round pick, not the biggest deal in the world. Obviously, it's going to be McFadden and O'Kareke to start both smart guys, both the sending guys. I think O'Kareke is one of the better linebackers in the league. But the Giants did draft Arias Muisau and one of his calling cards was he's not the biggest. He's not the most athletic, but he's freaking smart. He's really good in the box. And maybe there's more for that player and he's not just going to be a special team or if something ends up happening to O'Kareke, God forbid, and Michael McFadden. - I think that's an excellent call. I think as a sleeper right now to be one of our, you don't think it's going to happen now. But when we get to training camp, a battle that no one's all coming and he starts getting some first team reps instead of McFadden. Because we don't know. - That's cold. - This is obviously, no, not going to happen. This is just like, it's one of those surprise shock things. We're not even expecting that. Because of what you said, I mean, it's a brand new system. Whoever fits it best mentally, like you said, is going to play. And yes, McFadden eventually learned how to fit the Wink Marndale system very well because he was instinctually. And he drove forward. This is a different system. And so we'll see who it clicks for faster from the mental side because they're putting a shit ton on the plate from an IQ standpoint for a mental side of football. And they've already admitted that. The one thing I wanted to say that you said a few minutes ago, but I thought was important. I was thinking about, you mentioned overhang defender for Isaiah Simmons as a possibility. And I was thinking about when I watched him as a prospect coming out. And that was the role he played in that defense. And that was the role he thrived in. That was where he's at his freaking best when I watched him. In that spot, give him a chance to play it again. Make us, you know, have your system fit to that skill set. Because that could be a big part of your defense. He was a big part of his defense and called. He hasn't been a big part of his defense in the NFL really at any point. I'm not ruling it out yet if he's put in the exact perfect role. If that's the idea that they have in mind for him to play that type of role, good. Maybe this is the defense that can bring it out. Maybe Winx wasn't. - I'm still skeptical with his run goal. - Of course. - Yeah. And I would hope that, I mean, it's different being out there. You know, you have more space to operate in. He's athletic enough to do so. But, you know, you just run like crack toss, that direction, pull someone around, just have crack why he's. - Seems like even a wide receiver can take him out and crack toss. - Yeah, it's, and like, again, man, we bring up like the Darnay homes of the world and no one gets excited about that. But like, Darnay can hold down that edge. And we know just by stable, yeah, he's smaller, but he's like so much stronger. Which is crazy 'cause he's a diva to the back and Simmons is technically a linebacker. - Do you think part of it is also like the way he attacks downhill toward the football is more like, it's a, it's less long and lanky than I say, as Simmons comes at it, he kind of like gets low and drills in there. - Yeah, it's more fluid. - Yeah, it's more fluid looking. - Yeah, Darnay homes like, he packs a punch, man. And he's a smaller guy, but he's direct and he can hit people very hard. Shame. And it's very important to Brian Dable and really any NFL coach, but they made a point to add this that the run defense is very important. And Shane Bowen had really good run defense of advanced statistics at Tennessee when he was sitting there reading it off to Joe Shane and what was probably a, not scripted, but they were like, this is gonna definitely make the, make the cut, you know? - I'm absurd. - That seemed very casual, right? - It's about the defense coordinator such a little, wait a second. It's like, are you gonna, are you gonna call Shane? Are you gonna call him up? It's like, yeah, look at this. Went off from the job and I say, you want to be here? Look at this. He was six in offense. Seven, he's just like reeling numbers. I'm like, there's Shane's like, all right, man. Get him. Like, how do we do this? How do we pull this off? I didn't know until today that he was seven to break down defense. Thank you for letting me know, like what? - It was so, it was so casual looking, but you know they've had so many meetings up until that point discussing all the details. - That one will throw the cameras, 100%, regardless of what anyone says, that's my opinion, at least of it, but it is what it is, it was fun. All right, Nick, anything else? - Is there anything else on Daniel Jones to say? I mean, they showed him going through rehab and just a lot of the stuff I guess we already hit on where they're just like, all right, we're paying him this. We expect him to be this. And now it's the time for him to be this. We just got to put him in an optimal situation to actualize it. - Yeah, I will say this. I don't think we touched on it this part enough. And it depends what you want to make of it. 'Cause I don't know if this was another one of those staged conversations for half. - By the way, this is why I love like this. This is such a different thing than we usually do because there is like some things, you make something of this and there's other stuff that probably is just fluff and bullshit, right? So I kind of like passing through the use and see. - I'm trying to figure out what's bullshit, what's fluff. I mean, this scene, this has came from the scene where Joe Shane is telling his lieutenants like, Daniel Jones has been injured this amount of years. We have this and this and this and this. And it's like all these facts they obviously already know. So that leads me to leave maybe it was just one of those scenes for HBO and for the cameras. But within it, Joe Shane mentioned like, he's under contract for three years. I think he said this earlier. We got to see if he's the guy for 10 years, which at the very least kind of makes me feel. So I thought, no, I know how people are. They're going to somehow get offended by this and it is what it is at this point. But I thought that after last season, watching Tyrod and DeVito within that offense, it would click and Joe Shane's head that you're not going to win a lot of Super Bowls allocating 20% of your salary cap to Daniel Jones. To be honest, that's just where I'm at. I felt like, yes, he could still be a solid quarterback like he was in 2022, great before he gets the contract. But once you're handing him 20% a fifth-year salary cap, it just doesn't make sense to have a sticiest ceiling there. I thought after watching Tyrod and DeVito to make. And I know their situations were a little different, both of them, but they, it was clear that, you know, it was at worst they were as good as Jones was in that offense last year's offense, whatever it may be. And we don't know what Tyrod would have been in the 2022 offense. By the way, no one ever talks about that. We don't know what Tyrod, what we do know is that Tyrod was like second and explosive pass rate. And like up there in the NFL and EPA from clean pockets and all sorts of that, we don't know what he would do in 2022, that's that. But point being, it doesn't feel like that after those in this conversation. I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, Nick. I don't know if it was just for the cameras, but it felt to me more like Joe Shane's like, the whole time, we said we're gonna give him two years to prove himself, and this is his second year. He still has a full clean slate to prove himself. And if he has a good enough year, Nick, even if it's not that good, I think there's a decent chance that they might just roll back in to 2025 with him at, you know, 18, 20% of the salary cap. - Yeah, I mean, that could be an option. One thing was for sure, though, it was Joe Shane wanted a contingency plan, 'cause he brought up, I think, twice that. And of course, they have editorial control. It's like Daniel Jones has finished three seasons with three season and injuries, I think. Well, I don't know if he said it like that, but he said that he's injured a lot. - The best predictor of the future, the past, and really had Jones's injuries. - Yeah, there's a lot of injuries there, and the only season that Jones has had that was healthy was 2022, was that season. And he didn't even have a good offensive line that year for me, Frank. There was one more thing I wanted to bring up. I'm just scrolling through my notes. Oh, yeah, it was when, I think it was Chris Rossetti was going through the running backs. The trait that they discussed, that it seemed like to me that they really valued when they were discussing the running backs was decisiveness, and I found that to be interesting, and it makes sense. Decisiveness is like one of the traits that we don't really talk about a lot, or we do, but like the average fan doesn't really talk about too much with running backs. It's more like speed, agility, power, and things of that nature. But no, they wanted decisive runners, and they showed a couple clips of single Terry, making guys miss just linebackers, over pursuing to like the D gap, and then he bounces it inside to the C gap, where there's a nice time we block by a tight end, and then he's just off to the races and beats an angle out of the safety. They talked about a similar with Zach Moss, and another thing they mentioned about Zach Moss specifically was pass protection. So you know, that's obviously something that they're looking for. We've brought that up. We're hoping Tyrone Tracy can fill that role with Devin Singletary specifically, though. They said he can be a passing down's back, but he's different from Moss, because he's more of an underneath receiver type of screen, type of guy, and not necessarily that type of pass blocker that Zach Moss was. So I found that was a great job. Yeah, yeah, that was a great observation. I did see this, though, Nick. And who knows, you know, where you, we don't need to go live or die by this service, but I did see in 2022, Singletary, when had a bigger role, was the six best pass blocking running back, courteous profile focus. From the film I saw, I thought he checked out. Like he's smart and he can identify where it's coming from and he can get in the way. He's not like a piece of toilet paper who gets tossed aside like some running backs. Like he will get in the way. It's going to miss some, but, you know, Sigma Barkley missed some up until like 2022. He was actually pretty poor in pass protection. I would say he really rectified that in 2022 and it carried into 2023 as well. I would agree with that, Nick. All right, that's our first recap of the first Giants R-Nox episode. We're going to do one every week. We got four more, I think. I think they're doing five in total. So excited for this, Nick. And again, Art Stableton said more to come. He even said in one tweet that I think he'd deleted, but it's on PBI. 'Cause I couldn't find this tweet from Art, but on PBI, Eric put it in there in a thread. And then I looked for Art to reference him and then I couldn't find it. But he said that he originally went into this thing thinking that the Giants won at all talk about the quarterback pursuit as in the trade up for Drake May or the pursuit of the quarterback. And now he's like, I'm not so sure we might get to see a little bit of that. So I'm curious, I don't see what's there to gain for the Giants by showing the trade talks with New England or what Joe Shane's saying behind the scenes of Brandon. Like, we love May. We think he's the guy we think of. 'Cause now it's over. They don't have May. They couldn't get May and they have Daniel Jones. So I don't think going into the start of their season, that's the vibe they want to put out there, to be honest. So I think all that stuff will be hidden, but Art Stableton thinks, you know, at least from that tweet seems to think that we might get a little bit of that. So I'm curious to see if they put any of that in. - I said, leave it out. I mean, I would love to see it perfectly, but what do you have to gain to it? - Hurt your team, Karate, you're right. - Yeah, but I do want to see it, you know? - I don't want to see it too. - If you're an agent of chaos, you want to see that too. Especially if it's like, no, dude, this is the guy we need him. Probably trying to like obfuscate it somehow. And you're like, yeah, we were trading up for Malik neighbors. That's what we were doing. - Exactly. They might do that. They very well might do that, you know? It's like, they're on the phone with New England. It's like, the whole time, we wanted neighbors, all right? We were trading up for a wide receiver. - Joe, oh, that's what we want. - Yeah, yeah, that rumor, that was great. All right, so anyway, thanks for tuning in to Google Bandit Podcast. Enjoy your Fourth of July, baby. Happy Fourth of July. I'm excited to enjoy it and eat terribly and drink terribly from my body, but from my happiness, it's a good short-term solution. - All right, let me ask you this before we get out of here. What's Dan's favorite Fourth of July meal? - I like it pretty classic, just burgers and dogs. That's where I'm at. Very classic Fourth of July. Like getting out there in front of a grill with beers. Big beer over like the Trulies and stuff and that for... I'd rather just have beers. - Yeah, I don't do Trulies, I don't do beers either, though. It's always the bourbon, baby. - Yeah, it's hard, hard liquor. Always a hot liquor, damn. - So everybody, enjoy your Fourth. Have a great rest of your weekend and we'll talk to you soon. [BLANK_AUDIO]
