Hi guys, welcome to a brand new episode of the Wyoming Bondi podcast. Today I'm joined by former player and our director would be at the Boys and Walls, Gary Chambers. Are we doing Gary with God? Paul, really good man. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. No, no, I really appreciate it. And if you can't just tell us a bit about the role you're doing now at Boys and. So, the role was sort of a new role that was it was it was Carl Fitzpatrick's idea, obviously, to bring some money and who can it can focus on sort of looking after all all areas of rugby from first team straight down to the youth as well, you know implement sort of long-term strategies that would give us sustainability into future looking at the right type of recruitment, you know, having a better understanding of which youth players can step up and, you know, make the mark and not look like the rookie when they step up. They step up and look like Warrington Wall's players and basically to support and advise the head coach in whatever they need as well on that. So, it's a two-way thing between me and Sam Burgess. So, you know, we work closely together on that. Because with the youth as well as there's been criticism in the past, doesn't the years gone bad at Boys and just haven't done that well with the youth, like especially compared to the likes of Saints and Wigan, do you feel like that's changing now? I think it's changed massively since Sam's comment because he wants to play the youth and I think it's important that we acknowledge the work that sort of Ryan O'Brien and his team have done in developing the youth. And when I sort of came back into full time with the club, the idea was always to push these quality kids we have. And what we've said now is we'll never block a pathway for a young player. I won't bring a player in that's going to block a pathway of a young player that we've got. And I think people are starting to notice what we've got in our youth now with, you know, if you go through them, you know, started the back, you've got Katie Ellery. I think we saw a glimpse of what he's capable of doing last year with some of his performances, Aaron Lindop. He's still got just the elicits only 22. We forget about what he's done and because he's been in the team that long, but he's sort of a benchmark of what can happen. And then you've got, obviously Aaron Lindop in there. Leon is, he's now starting. He's at number seven. You've got Adam Allroyd in there who's going to be starting back row. You've got Max Wood who's a young fella. You've got Tom Whitehead, people like that. You know, there's a number of young players in there. And I've missed someone and I have, but there's, you know, we've got to play our own. We've got to be a developing team, not a buying team now, and bring our own through. And we've got a model that we go broader for longer. You know, we develop from the ground up and we're working on actively pushing through. And I don't think we'll improve to win grand finals consistently until we're at 50, 60, 70% home-grown players in our first team with a splattering of international quality. Because I think you get that extra five percent from home-grown players. And I can see the likes of Taylor and Lindop and Hairs and Allroyd and people like that, being with us for a long, long time and being a benchmark for our team. And in that as well, you've got people like Connor Inch has been damn unlucky because as an athlete, he's exceptional. Probably one of the best athletes that's ever come through the club, which has been so unlucky with injuries. It's not true. You know, to pick two ACLs up, then he's at ankle injuries and that it's, you know, it's, I can't wait to see him go there. And the potential of him will be fantastic. Yeah, I really hope he goes well. The next season, because like you say, there's always been a lot of potential that we've seen glimpses at times as well. Little fingers crossed for him. And then, you said then before, like, we're not going to be bucking the pathways anymore. Like, do you feel like Boyden did that in the past? Yeah, I think we have. I think, you know, when we lost, you know, I can't look at players who I brought through when I was doing youth, you know, years and years ago, Gazzo Bryan's had a fantastic career elsewhere. And I think I do think he would have been a good, solid, well, long-term, reliable player for our club for many a year. And we've gone around, look at the different players we've pulled into going to that position. And I think we had him there. And, you know, we just didn't, we didn't, we didn't stick with him. We didn't give him the chance. And they're going to make mistakes in these young players. I know they are not bothered about that, neither some. You know, we know they're going to make mistakes. You know, we know that things are always going to go right for them. But that's all they learn. So, yeah, I do think at times we've, we've, we've made a mistake of, of bringing people in when we've had them there in front of us. And it's what we're working out now to try and rectify. It's, you know, we're in a good place. We're in a good place up where we know what we've got coming through. We've got pathways for all our players in every position where we think we need a gap. We feel that we're a young player. And it's just going to take time now. You know, within two years, I expect us to be at 50, maybe 60% of home-grown players in our first team. That's, that's great to win. And this Sam said as soon as he came in, that this was like one of these big games to go from the youth. He always says, you know, young players on level let you down. Well, they'll make their mistake, but they'll make up for it with effort. And, you know, if they're good enough, and we've got to be smart with, with how we, how we play him in that. But he's always been straight from the word go when, when we got together. And I knew Sam, coach, coach him when I was in England under 18's coach. I knew what he was. And when we were looking at him, I knew what he was, he was capable of doing it. And the statue that he brings and straight from the word go, these young players, they want to play for him. And they want to give as much as he can for him because, you know, they just buy into everything he does. So these young players will never let him down. And it's, you know, he's been, he's been excellent in that straight from work, from the word go first game. And I'll end up player, didn't he? And, you know, last year against Catalan, scored a try, made a couple errors, you know, but he was better for it. And we see him what he could do as we, we went through the year after that. Was you surprised when Royce and went down the Sam Burgess loop? Well, I don't think it's any surprise that, you know, the board and the CEO spoke to, they spoke to Justin Albrook. He was, he was an obvious target because he was available at that time. But then I think Sam sort of come to the forefront on, you know, and he was mentioned and I was asked about him. And obviously I knew him. I knew what he was about. I knew what he was as his family and as an individual. And, you know, he's, he's just got that spark. And everybody I spoke to, you know, they just couldn't speak out in for baring what his credentials were. So he was I suppose he was surprised when he was announced. I suppose it was a gamble, but it was a calculated gamble and a calculated risk because he don't have that sort of stature. And he'd been in that sort of high-performance environment and not be able to deliver on something. He works damn hard. His knowledge of the game is excellent. His relationships with the players is as good as I've seen in any court, probably the best I've seen. He's, you know, he has a unique ability to, he can be really friendly with them. And then in the next breath, he can, he can just switch on and it's work time. So he's got balance that he's able to all lose his second turn on. And I don't, it's not a surprise that we performed last year. It's not a surprise what he delivered. It's not a surprise what the team evolved into because, you know, he knows what he's talking about. He's really impressive, really impressive block, to be honest. And he cares for the town. He's massive for us. Yeah, definitely. It went because when he did get announced, could you see the players at that little bit of excitement as well? That was funny, really, because then it was, the lads, I was supposed to go to Australia that year with the youth. And we announced him, and then I said, no, I wouldn't go meeting when he came in and try and make it a smooth transition. And then we, you know, a few of the lads had heard about him coming in and they were asking questions. And what he did was straight away, he didn't meet up with any of them. The first time he came into contact was Burchwood Forest Park, middle of November, freezing cold, pitch black, when they were doing a park run. And he was just there. And it was, I wasn't sure. I said, I think he should meet them. And he went, no, they'll see me when he's a work environment. And I think he set the standards there. It was somewhat like, and it was his idea. It wasn't mine. I wouldn't even to meet them. And he met them there. And since then, it just worked. It just, it was, it just was brilliant that we worked. And they had the famous army camp, didn't they? Yeah, that was his idea again. He was like, we won't. Usually, we're going to 10 or eight this year. And I think all the years, it's been, you know, Lanzarote and Portugal and places like that. But last year, it was 10, basically for two days, just turning them over to him. But I think they accumulated, I was brutal. And I think they did some like 68 kilometers of running over two days, day and night, just bloody tortured, to be honest, but they dug in. And it set the mark, it set the benchmark. And yeah, it was, it was brilliant. And it's, they still talk about it now. And all the time at Millerton, knocking about this year. No, we've done a bit of a military thing. You'll see, we got the Marines in and did a bit of a, they were running through a British ship and they didn't know anything was going on. And then, we sort of hijacked the session, kept them nuts at nine o'clock at night and, you know, put them in hostage situations and, you know, based them a little bit. But yeah, and again, that was just something different. That's what he does well. He thinks outside the box. He thinks the things that are going to give them things to think about. I'm going to shock them a little bit and take them out and make memories for them as well. And that was a, that was good as well. So yeah, it's, that was a good, a good thing for us. And I think they enjoy it as well. Because in terms of last season going to be as well, like it seems to be a lot of steps forward, but we were still just agonizingly off, you know, winning those trophies. How positive was it in terms of the whole season? I think on the whole, from when he came in, to the end, you know, I think we did with the signings that we sort of brought in and on the recruitment and, you know, I think it was a really good season. You know, I think the fans have really clicked in, you know, the, I'll tell you what we, what we've, we've worked out to get away from is the, so the, the seashore syndrome, like we'd be good to them bad than good. I think we were consistently difficult to beat last year. I think every team that we come up against, you know, knew that we were, we were going to give them a game. I don't think we performed at Wembley, but that was a learning curve as well for a new team. And I think we'll be better for that. I think OK, we've performed better. You know, we, we did some things well and we stopped there, some of their threats that we worked out on doing. But we're just in, you know, we, we wanted to stop Mikey Lewis's kick game. We did that. We, we come up with a plan for that. We wanted to stop Jesse Su, scoring near the line. We wanted to do that. We wanted to stop Tyrone Mayor, out jumping us, which they did against in the season. They scored tries. I think it was two or three tries like that. We worked on that, but we didn't come up with a plan B. So, and we just missed out, we missed out on Wembley, but we'll learn from that. Just missed out on this. But all in all, you know, we, we've been sent Ellen's four times and, but I don't want to really go into that thing now because that's what I, we expect the, the, the result of what we expect now. It's not like a flash in the pond. We expect to be doing that. And we haven't brought a lot of people and many people in this year. We've still got the, the basic same team that we had last year. And I think what we've recruited, it'll, it'll do well for us. Yeah. Cause like you said, we were a lot of great results last season. Like did, but in terms of that hook, yeah, again, we had absolutely that controversial try. Was there much talk about that afterwards? Is that the, is that the one with the, they scored? Yeah. Yeah. The job, the job urge is fun. Yeah. We thought we were lucky with Matt Dufte being disallowed as well. But I think it was Matthew Nicholson, he needed to just push out of the line. I think whatever happened, whether Nicholson had pushed out through the line and all they would never have got to Dufte. So it was a technicality try at disallowed try, but it is what it is. And then with the, with the Burgess one, I think there was only the referee never seen it in the touchy or would have given it. And the happens don't, and you'd like to think down the line that we'll get our bit of luck back somewhere else. I'm sure we will, you know, it's, we'll learn from that. I'd like to see it as in finally against Wigan because I think we have a game that can trouble Wigan, you know, on our day, I think we can, we can match, we can match anyone. And like I said, we've stopped that C sort of thing now. We're tough to beat, you know, you walk, when you walk out on a field, you know, you against us, it's, it's, you know, you're going to get in. Sometimes people know we're going to play, they know what we're going to do, but, you know, it's up to them to try and stop it. Yeah, because as well, I can say that, well, we did. It was still, I've seen some versus first year as a head coach. So as he learned a lot as well, you learned a lot about his players, the dynamics of his squad, the British game, he's still learning that, obviously, and what the refereeing and that was like, you know, he's coming to that. He's built relationships with referees, officials at the top in the RFL and that'll help as well. So you can either ask the right questions and help them all that our game over here, along with all the other coaches and I think he's, will be significantly better off this year, even though it was, it was really good last year. I think we'll be in some of this year. Yeah, definitely. And in terms for you, South guy, you obviously used to play for white as well, playing over two more times. What was that like, because obviously you were joining the 90s, how different was it compared to now? I signed in '89 and we saw people like Les Boyd, he's absolutely brutal. I signed on a, I signed at World War III against Wigan. You know, I said to me, Dad, what the hell? You know, I couldn't believe what was happening. I signed up there and then all the games evolved massively. You know, I look, I look now and I think, how did I ever play? You know, I look at this, I watch them in training and I watch them on the mats and I watch them in the gym and you think unbelievable. The athlete that they are today, you know, what what I will say is, you know, the games evolved in a lot of substitutions and all that sort of thing. I mean, there's many a time when I had had to play 80 minutes, you know, our middles don't have to play 80 minutes now. That, that often, you know, we had to do it as often as possible. And I think, for me, I, I used to, I was never the biggest. I, you know, I used to pick up a lot of injuries because, you know, because you're playing that much, that many minutes and not being the biggest. Ultimately, someone's got to give and it was usually a big body that will be breaking. So, I think that was something that happened for me. But yeah, I loved it. I love the club, you know, I've been here that long now. I think it's 36 years old. I just wanted to achieve our potential. We got a good board. We got a good seat, a good, really good board, really good seat, excellent, good coaching assistants and, and, you know, support stuff, SNC, medical. It's, it's ready to go. I youth set up is consistently turning our high quality, young men. We have good standards about them. And, and, you know, the people that we, we push up in the first team, good people, you know, people you want to be around and spend time with. So we're doing all right. Because in terms of like you was there, we did actually win, the regional trophy. Like how big was that at times? Like a big trophy or was it? It was good when it happens, you know, there's not many games I can remember now, but I can remember when in that. And, you know, it was, Mark Thomas wasn't right at the end. It was, yeah, that was, you know, it's the only thing I've ever won. It was, you know, it's brilliant. We've won some challenge cups and things like that since, but, you know, it's, yeah, to win anything like that is, is, is fantastic. We went to Wembley when I first signed, I think it was 1990, we went to Wembley and lost to Wigan. That might be a great try. And we just won. It's been too, too sporadic, too few and far between. And, and I think that's probably the biggest, my job that I've got is to build that sort of consistency. So we have year upon year upon year consistency and, and when we lose a player, and we will lose players, that there's always someone ready to come in. And, and like I said earlier, they'll be coming in and look like Warrington Wolves players, like rather than rookies. And if we bring a player in, it fits the narrative of what a Warrington Wolves player should be. You said about obviously playing with Mike Gregory, Les Boyd, what's going on with him there as well during your time? What was it like playing with these type of players? As a kid coming in with, you know, I played a couple of times with Les. Yes, Gary, because, you know, I'll be coming in probably 14 half stone, 15 stone, 18, 19 year old friend, Robert. And Les will be on one side and they'll be all all breaking loose at a screwman. I'll be on the other side and you think, and what the hell's going on here. And then Mike Greg was an inspirational guy. And, you know, obviously to do what he's doing or what he did in the game and to play the way that he played for Warrington, when he could have went elsewhere, he could have went on to bigger and better themes, but he stayed with us. And that's, you know, what's in the minority in this day and age, he's just, you know, an exceptional character and calls, you know, he just epitomized everything that Warrington should be, you know, I'd work in town, I'd work in team, you know, you know, and that's, I think that's what we try and be one of you known as, you know, the town ultimately is a hard work in town and, you know, with the wide industry. And that's, that's what we've got to try and get the players to be first and foremost, because people at Warrington bind to that. The understand what hard work is and you understand about that sort of mentality. So that's what we're trying to get. And then, you know, if you get your hard work from that, that's the reason we brought people in like Luke yet to just being fantastic for us. And then you add the absolute quality in international players like George Williams. I think that's a win-in, a win-in recipe there. That's the, these days as well, there's been a lot of fans going to Hallo Jones, I mean, never gone to wheels, Bill. It was a bit different, was it? It was a mad house when it was just like, it's, you can't, if I try and speak about it, it just wouldn't do it just this. It just, you know, it was like, I've never known anywhere that's been, and it wasn't me, it was a place before that, that it was such an intimidating place for teams to come ahead in it, didn't it? I played when they called it the zoo, you know, and everybody bored into that. And everybody who played at that time, it was sort of the divine ride that they had to aim up and they had to be tough and they had to make it a real like physical game. It was, you know, was you duty to do that? You know, because everybody else, especially we're going at that time, they had all the big names and all the full-time players, a lot of us were still working as well. But, you know, you had, you could, you could never let that. Like I say, it was a duty, you could never let the people, what the people before we built that up thing, you know, they do the well that we drink out of. You wanted duty to make it that way and do the right thing by the club. And that's what we've got to get there. Now we still have a statement saying in the changing rooms from Paul Cullen, it's still been the changing rooms. Now I won't take it down. If you're going to come and take something for us, you're going to have to do something special. You know, if you're going to come to our place and do that, I'm not still in the changing rooms. And I think it's important to keep that tradition, what those, you know, who played before and were there before as we've done. In terms of saying like the away teams hated it, did we just make the changing rooms, you know, awful and stuff like that? I think it was when he went down that tunnel. He went down across and then back up and it was just, it just wasn't very nice. It was often flooded in there and it was, you know, it was, but it was the, it was the orchestra. It was the, it was when you went up into, up into the ground and it was like, you know, it was, it was intimidating the crowd on top of you and it was just a brilliant, that was people, people like being there. It was sort of, it was a unique stadium, didn't it? Didn't have, it had a wall basically on the far side where, where Snug is and that was in the nightclub when he, it just wasn't like anywhere. And you know, that, you know, he got it from three sides and then the sound just to vibrate off that one on the far side. It was, yeah, I must have been terrifying coming in as a player to, to play there. It was, well, you know, it was going to be bloody awful, you know, when they came and you could save in them and that's, that's what won us a lot of games. And I think when we lost there a couple of times, I've played there when we've lost in it. And we've had a couple of bad defeats. I can remember one who just failed when we were winning and then we ended up losing on that one. It was, people don't, that's tough to take. That's a seesaw thing. That's, that's not good enough for us. It's not good for our town and it's, it's not good for our club. We can't be like that anymore. But in terms of those days at Will'sville as well, the club sometimes was struggling, like, money wise as well. It's actually like, could you see where it was going to go? But why is it like a you surprise? I'll break like, obviously, we're quite a big club now. I think, yeah, I was there when he, when he financially, we were really struggling and you always knew you had the fan base, I think moving away from Will'sville a lot was tough. Then just open up different avenues to get the stadium, the new stadium, give us a new lease of life and then you get, you know, you get fantastic sort of directors who come in and just commit so much of the club like Simon and Stuart, Mike Lomax, sort of people of that ilk who come in and, and invest like what they do to, to get, to where we need to be, you know, them coming in, you know, in this day and age, it's essential. I don't, I don't think clubs can survive just on the income that they generate through crowds, what they receive from the RFL from central funding. You have to have a backer, or in our case, you have to have a few backers to be able to just bring the right players in to run the right sort of club. And, you know, in them days, we just didn't have that. We had people like PDA, who gave everything to try and keep it going. Ultimately, you need to go to that next level of wealth, or whatever, or if you want to call it, to really have a team that can, can flourish and, and become tenders with your own. Yeah. If those people don't come in, is it scary to think well, why it's incomplete? You wouldn't survive, you know, make no bonds about that. You can't survive in this climate now without having, you know, financial people on board who love the club, who invest heavily in the club, you know, and, and do it for the love of the club and love of the game and love of the town. And it's, it's unbelievable what, what, what those people do and what they commit to and what they give. And then you add that with some of the, the sponsors who are on board, it's, yeah, you couldn't, you couldn't, you couldn't just do with normal sponsors and you couldn't do with central funding from the RFL. And you certainly couldn't do with just much, much revenue and, and, and kids sales and that you just couldn't, you couldn't survive. So for someone to have people on board, like you said, like the directors who do that, they're in the shadows and you don't see them and, and for someone like Simon, he quite likes that, but people need to know what, what they do and, and what's due with those and what, like, long months, those, and what's unbelievable what they give. You're in your time at either way, so as well, there were some really tough towns, wasn't it, in terms of, you know, the team not doing too well during the 90s, etc. Yeah, I think we, we, we had, we had a, we had a time where, I remember, you know, when we had yesterday and, and school thought, Paul Scully, and, and we, and we had to sell them, basically, to just to keep the club ticking over, but, if we could have kept all of them, and it's, and I'm say, it's a great thing, you know, we'd have been in a lot stronger position, but we, we needed that to survive. And, you know, we, we went through some, some terrible times, you know, I remember, send Ellen's, we just, we were getting pumped, like, I think I played in, again, we got B18L, and it was, you know, when things, when you're down, you know, things you are down and, and things go against you, you know, they, they couldn't do anything wrong that, that day, they were chip kicking over, they were putting 40 passes in, they were grubbering, it was, like, it was just unbelievable, it was one of them days that you make your own look, but sometimes when you, when you look not on your side, you know, you, you, you, you just, you just fight into, to try and keep going, and I think that was, that's what it was like for us as a club as well. It was, it was a tough time there, we, we were scrambling a bit, you know, when, you know, as we, as we sort of moved on, we, we went to the new stadium, and I think when we brought Andrew John's in, that sort of put us into a new light then, about what we were potential to be, and it was a fantastic time, but it was also a time that probably was out of Killy Zail, even, even I'd say up to him maybe a couple of years ago, because we would have, we were able to bring in big names and, and, you know, some of them worked and some didn't. So we, we, like going back to my role again now, we've got to be bringing the right people and now, and ultimately it stops you being that for, you know, if we've been, if we've been the wrong people and then, you know, it's, it's not good for us, you know, really clear on, on who we want, the type of player he wants to bring in and I've got, you know, I've got to go and try and get them and I'm more 150% confident with the coaching team that we've got in there now, that we can develop even, you know, not even the top names, we can, we, you know, I'm trying to think now, you know, the Melbourne Storm model, yeah, he developed people, you know, they bring people in and we're probably having the straps, you know, their areas coming in and become internationals or, or will class players and I think we've got that in our staff at the club now that we're very lucky, that we can, we can do that with players that we've been in as well. Andrew Jones first game, oh, that was some atmosphere, wasn't it? Oh, yeah, it was, it was not about, so, you know, the, so the Andrew Jones game and the Centennial games last year and George put the drop goal of him, yeah, the amount of people who've said to me that that was those two games were the best two games that they've ever seen at the LA World Jones, the atmosphere was just unbelievable, so Andrew Jones, that was a special one, he couldn't do all wrong that night, he's kicking it from touch lines, making breaks and, you know, he was a special player, you know, and he was brilliant for it, brilliant for the club in the time he was again and he got us on the map a bit and then, you know, it shows probably what we did last year that people were speaking about the Centennial games in, in the same sort of, with the same sort of pride and, and, and enjoyment is, as that came up, you know, we've got to try and recreate that because, you know, people want to come in and watch our sort of rugby only. Yeah, I was watching the Centennial game, I'll see very early in Sydney and it was hard to get back to sleep afterwards, to be honest, I don't forget that. That was a good game, that was a, we should have finished, you know, if we, we, we play a certain way and we do certain things, you know, you know, if you, if you want to go into, like, pure rugby basics, we went and ended up going to, to Josh Drinkwater's side, it was a left-footed kicker and kicking, sorry, he was, he was kicking in midfield, what he should have been on the left, he was on the right, so he got a left-footed kicker kicking in midfield and they were able to get to him, so he hooked it across field, and really all we needed to do was sit him on the other side, long pass out to an edge, long kick straight down into a corner, moving the game easily, but then he goes into extra time and everybody's thinking, oh, here we go again, Centennial ends, extra time, but we got it this time and I think that's what's really special and he showed a bit of a mentality there again, another learning curve for the Labs, you know, big opportunity for them. Yeah, because, because like you say, we beat Centennial is four times last year, but like, because it's not to think how many years we went without beating Centennial is at all, like, I can't even run away, it ended up, it was like, it was a long time, was it? So many, the, the, the, the flood was on, on, on so many occasions and piped as at the post on so many occasions, you know, I was, you were getting sick of it by the end, so you know, we owe them a few more, it's not like, yeah, it, it didn't done this, we, we all, we owe them a bit, and I don't, you know, I'll say over a bit of banter as well, but you know, we want to get over on these teams, we, we're done some good scores in, I mean, we're at a big score against, we're going to, we're going with the Ole Miss in, Jive failed in Bevin French, you know, that was, that was a good performance, we executed well then as well, so there was some, some notable performances from, from in last year and, and we'll build on that. As well, when you were playing a certain lead, where you started playing towards the end of your career as well, could you see what he was going to become then? I, I changed him, I turned Alan, when he was, I think he got left out for a semi-final, he got him to challenge. It was the, he's like, one of them was semi-final and then got left out for the final, didn't he? And, and we had sort of, we'd heard around that time that we were, we were interested in him. He was a winner, and he was getting annoyed with the fact that he was, he was doing such a good job when he came in and, so when, when we heard that he was going to come in, we were like, wow, this is, this is brilliant, you know, we, he's going to be, for me as an expert, as a, as an older player, I was there to sort of protect him a little bit, and you could tell from the moment he came in, he was, I mean, there's nothing on him, he was like a little paper boy, he could read again, he's, he's kick range, he's, he gave him understanding, he was vocal, he was, gave us just brilliant, and he was, I was even though that when I finished playing about what he was going to be and what, what he was, what he was to our club and what, and how good he was. It's just a shame, he didn't have the chance to show that, you know, for international level, because I think he would have been unbelievable. It was always that campaign, wasn't it for you, so Britain? Yeah, and I just think the people who were in charge at that time thought that he wasn't the perfect player, was he, you know, he's, he's a man, and he won't mind me saying this, you know, he trained, but he, he just trained enough, but, you know, but he didn't have to train a lot, you know, he didn't have to be the best trainer, we still went out week after week and was the best player, because he was, he was just a good, good player, and sometimes, you know, after being a Marine to represent your country, in some positions you do, but I think he was a gifted enough player that, well, I'd like to see what he could do in international level for an extended period. Yeah, and I'll see it be coming back to, and visiting Wives, and we've said others that share as well on it. He'll make him good, he'll make him good, he'll make him good, he's something against you up and last year with them, they were down on a lot of quality players, but I think they've recruited really well, they've got some really exciting backs coming in there, and it'll sort of fit his narrative with what he's trying to bring in there, you'll make them, you'll make them, you know, they'll ask some questions of teams in attack, you know, and he'll make his work defensively when we play them, they'll be, you know, they'll be significantly better than they were last year. I think the recruitment of say a little, I'll be good value, I think, I think you're playing round back, I think Wellsby will be at fallback, and then they've got Johnny Lomax, they've got Double Clark, you've got Morgan Knowles, you know, you've got Spine there, that's as good as any in the league, so I think you love them flying, I think they'll be, I think a lot of teams have recruited well this year, I think, you know, I think there'll be, it'll be a really, really tough challenge in year this year, I think Catalan have gone well, so all these teams are going to make it good for league, and they'll be a good brand, they'll be being played. Yeah, because Catalan's the silo, the likes of Luke Cavie as well only. He's outstanding isn't he? There's a question on obviously with the head contact stuff, and oh that's going to go, because you know, we've seen it last year, we in Australia, he picked up a few ad knocks, but you know, he obviously thinks he can go around again, you know, and then you've got Pangai Junior coming in, he'll be an handful, you know, there'll be a good team as well, and we, that's why I say it's probably lucky that we get him early in year before they've maybe had time to gel, but depends how that offseason goes, you know, they love some good players there, they really will, Elliot Whitehead is, you know, I know he's been in some wars when there's a camber, he'll be excellent there, and then we've got Rudy DeSeq from Sulford, he'll move his forward, I forgot his name from Wigan, he'll come back to me in a minute, you know, we had a look at China sign, he was brilliant, so yeah, he's a good player, so he'll go there and he'll make them brilliant. But in terms for yourself as well, I'll have a pattern, I'll be a part of him, sorry, I'm dead, I figured he was a good player, it took him at one time, he'll make him, he's going to be a very, very good player. It turns it for yourself, Guy, when he did come to his time from playing, how did that come about? I sort of knew, I mean, if I was going to be honest, the fraction of me I saw it, and me I was all missed me, I hope, and I had another 18 months left on me contracting, you know, I thought I've had enough of this, you know what, I sort of did the rest of the season, but I'd lost a lot of sight in the eye as well, and a number of medical problems with it, and I just thought it's just not worth it this, and then just before then, just before I finished playing out and started dislocating me elbow, I think that came out about three or four times, and I'm thinking, right, I've had enough of this now, got to start looking ahead, and obviously Cole was in position then, and I went into the community, we at first, when I finished playing I went straight to work in the community, and I was doing a bit with the town teams, and I got asked if I would coach you, you know, the academy team, so I did a bit of coaching with the academy team, Cole left then, and Paul, Steve Anderson, sorry, Cole came after Steve Anderson didn't he, he was doing a bit with the academy in that as well, and Cole came in, and I was sort of giving the academy job, and then I sort of moved morning to full-time coaching then, and then obviously Cole, Cole came in, he built a fantastic squad, but they just weren't jelling, you know, the team that Tony Smith took through and did all them great things, I mean, it was basically Paul Cullen's group blueprint, I just thought he needed a little bit of time, and then obviously when Cole went, it was probably time for me and Paul Dabish, he had to go then, he needed a clean out and move on, so yeah, I went into, I was doing a degree at that time, I went into teaching Dabs, moved on to Munster, I think Cole went to witness, and then Tony came, Smith came in, but I still associate with the club, I was still teaching in the day, and I was coming back and doing the academy in that at night, so it all, you know, each of all Philbins and all people like that, I had a hand in them, scouting them and bringing them in, so I never sort of went away, it was just, I took a backstage a little bit from from the, you know, the sort of first team stuff. So there was a few times during that time with Cole, where we were just, we were very close, but just couldn't like, I sit in those big games, if you know what I mean, and so, and when it did come from, so to leave, it was quite a difficult time, was it, the fans were very much on his back, et cetera, and considering it was such a, you know, hometown here, it was sad to see us. Yeah, it was, it was tough, to be honest, I was, I was involved at that time, he loves a club emphatically, and gave everything to it, and I thought he built, you know, if you look at that packer, he built at that time with Morley and Carvell, and, you know, the Anderson's, I've tried to think what, what likes a Louis Anderson, a Vinnie Anderson would be worth these days, and people like that, with Benny Westwood, and, you know, Nat Woods, so many good players, and he just couldn't click, he just couldn't, he just couldn't click under him, and maybe, maybe you have a shelf life as a coach, you know, and maybe people say, I think it's three, four, five years, and then maybe it was time for Cole to go, I mean, in an ideal world, you'd have liked him to step upstairs and do something like I'm doing, because I think he'd have been invaluable at that, and it goes to show you're gonna, it's something I've said to Sam as well, Sam Burgess, you take your dream job, but where'd you go after that, and I think this one for Cole was probably the pinnacle of his worth what he wanted to be, because he loved the club so much, and that's why it was so hard to see the reaction of the crowd against him, because I seen how much he was hurting, and how much he gave, and I think that made it easier for me to sort of take a step back and think, let's look at a different career for a while, and reevaluate what I am as well, because that was tough to take, because he does care then he is passionate, nothing, you know, to pull that mural on the king's head with him on there, and Darbs is fitting because, you know, it deserves to be known, you know, on what she did care. Then as I said, Tony Smith comes in, and that's when the challenge club started happening, how nice was it for you to see that? I still did a little bit with first team when he first came in as well, and then obviously he wanted to do what he's all where, I think it was on the headphones for a few games, and a brilliant coach, a master manipulator who, you know, he could get in the player's heads, and he was unbelievably good at getting them on side, and getting them up for games, and you know, pull them challenge a couple of games in, made it really competitive, and you all got us to grab finals, and we just couldn't get, we just couldn't get that win, could we, which, you know, and that's where that, it's always our year thing comes in, you know, a bloody head, it may, you know, I don't even laugh about it, because it would be great. I don't know that the players like it, do they? No, the head, you know, the head, it's, you know, but we can't be defined by, by, you know, we are, and I get it, but I don't think we should be defined by winning just the grand final. Does that mean that we just stop and relax again, then, well, what I'm going to do is, you know, give to some that any staff, the tools, that it can be a sustained thing, year after year after year, and, you know, that's what we're trying to build, so it isn't just a one-off, you will happen, there's no doubt about it, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna win it, and hopefully, probably, it'll be when Sam's here, you know, he's, but then you know, you know, ultimately, Paul is a company, he's gonna go, he's gonna go back home, you know, I don't know, but he likes it, he does, he really does, but he's gonna go back to us because he's got some unfinished business there. Hopefully, in that time, we're up in a position where he sets us up, that we're rolling, and then we've got that infrastructure, and we just keep taking over, and he won't last forever, because you don't, you know, it comes in cycles, doesn't it? But, you know, 10 years of success or something like that will be a nice thing to do. I think all fans will be happy as long as you win a grand final, and then go back to Australia, what will be a problem? Yeah, if he can, if he can, he's El Benton in as well, he's, he can say, man, ask him, like, we talk about it often, when, when Sidney will not, their grand final, was he after 40 odd years? Yeah, it was a long time, yeah. 40 odd years, I think he was the catalyst that made it up, and he took that year by the school for the neck, and he just drove over every session, and every game, and he was just, he was relentless that year, and I can see it, because when he gets somewhere on him, like, he's relentless, he's, he's come back from, he's been over in Australia for a bit this year, he's come back, and he's just driving standards and driving it on, and, you know, I can't wait for, I can't wait for, yes, just, yeah, to start. I really can't, because I think, I think we could do something. It is surprising we haven't won that grand final yet, especially considering you look at that Tony Smith team, you know, players on the other hands, Molly, well, you could go through the less world-class players that were there, joining that time, weren't we? Brilliant, like unbelievable, Penny Westwood went right through that time, didn't he? And, like I said, you know, you look around, I'm in a fortunate position now where my job used to try and recruit players, and look at the right sort of players for us, and to bring in, like I said, you know, even the lesser-known ones, all the ones who people think aren't your breeders, these are your Westwoods, but you're two Anderson brothers, I dread to think what they will be worth this in the current climate, but this market now, because it was so, so damn good, and tough, you know, back row is at a rare commodity, you know, we really had some special talent then. Going back up, we always build days as well on the poor coin, like, he came in to us, he saved us from getting relegated, eventually didn't he? So, you know, if we got relegated to that, that knows what all that happens. Oh, I think we struggled, I do, and, you know, he kept us up, and he, yeah, he built a good team, he just, he just, it's, it's, it's we, we caught you, and I always remember, when I was coaching myself, I, I, I asked David, where do you speak, England coach? You, the good young coach is coming through, and it was, it was going to be the next big coach, and he, he said Dean Peir, who went to Bulldogs, and he had a shocker when he was there, and it was that bad that he got sacked, and he just gone out the game, and sometimes it's just, you know, it's the right coach in the right time, and things just fit, and I'm hoping I think that's what it is with Sam, he's, he's exactly right for us, Cole was right for it, for a, for a lot of things, but just couldn't get over the line, and like I said, maybe there's, there's a shelf life in coaching, maybe it is for five years or something like that, and then it's time to refresh up and go elsewhere, and I don't know when Ben is doing it a little bit different than that book, and maybe he's time, I'd come on that book, such a good team, such a good time as well. Just in terms of you just said about the right, it needs to be the right culture, the right time, do you feel like that was a sort of situation when Dale Powell came in, it was sort of the right coach both of them. I think when he got announced, I think everybody was like, wow, what's all good this, you know, what he, what he did at Castleford, it was incredible with limited budgets and limited facilities, he made them into a team that was, you know, it was, they were classic Aswendy, they were good to watch, they challenged for things, it was a tough place to go, and when he came in here, I think he was given a bit of a remit that there needed to be a bit of a clean out, probably some of the players that he got rid of, he may be looking back, and he, he, maybe saying no luck, it was the right thing to do, maybe, maybe we got rid of too many too early, I don't know, only that'll know that, and you know, only he'll be able to tell you that, but I think losing people like Michael Cooper and, and Chris Hill and that key times, big characters in, in the club, and we sort of lost our identity a little bit, and it's, it's, I'm doing it now, it's, it's so difficult to, you've still got to keep your backbone and, and, you know, it constantly changes in, in what I do, you think you've got everything sorted, and you think you're right, and then all of a sudden, you know, you get enough of putting for Danny Walker from Canberra and you think, oh, hell, here we go, and it, it just, it, it just makes the old club bubble a little bit, and you've got to try and calm it down, and, and I can see that, you know, that's what was happening with Daggle, you know, he, there was a lot of people off contract, those people he wanted to move on and do other things with, and he just, it just got away from him, and he couldn't catch him up, and I think there's no doubt in his quality from what he's done at Cass, and again, what he's done with Workfield last year, so the quality of the guys there, you just probably don't think that this morning time or that moment in time, it was right for our club. Don't worry, I, I told Danny at Canberra wasn't a great place to live in Australia, so, hopefully, all right. Yeah, well, yeah, so did he shine a long-term deal, so we're all right there. Oh, it's good news for him, because when you say, like, Chris L. Mike, you believe, like, is it quite surprising for you to see this all happening? I, I came back just in Daggle's last year, obviously, I took the Eddie Youth job, and, and he, I, I know, I, it was for, for hot sort of him and his coaches, you know, that they were, they were working hard, but he just wasn't working. I don't know, I don't know if some of the big voices had been there a long time, and there was no more who would step up to do, to do what they were doing. I can't put my finger on it, because it wasn't like they were getting a good day at the rugby, they were getting, you know, they were getting educated, it just wasn't working. He could ask me a million times, no, I don't know why he didn't sort of work with, it didn't work with them. I can't put my finger on it. It was, and they were hurting the players. I mean, when I took over for the last few, you know, the last six games, so we got some sorted, you know, they respected him, you know, obviously you're gonna follow up with people, you do all the time. I mean, I don't go on websites, but I get some clippings off from the media team where so-and-so is not getting on with someone. And so, well, that, that happens all the time. You know, you could do it every day, you play a physical sport, and, you know, the tough men, and if they're gonna say something, you know, if you're gonna challenge them, they're gonna say some are back and vice versa, it's a tough environment. And you say things in those environments, you probably wouldn't get it, get away with working in a, in an office, or, you know, even on a building site, it's a tough, tough environment. So, you know, it's, I know, when I took over, they did, some of them were rattled that he wasn't there, and they did care for him, but he just wasn't working for him. It was that season, he started off pretty well as well. I think a lot of people seem to be a bit back to, like, just requiring sort of being a bit of a turning point and causing a bit of a dividing with dressing room. I think what he did was he took the mindset off rugby and took it towards something else that probably wasn't gonna be beneficial to a team. You know, you've got to, we need to do one thing, when matches prepare well, when matches prepare well, when matches. And, you know, we weren't probably focused on preparing well. There was more talk than needed to be on what happened with Josh McGuire and what we were going to do about it. And what a certain player is going to support, what he was supporting, and it just dilutes, and it doesn't tick a lot. It doesn't tick a lot to sort of, to switch into being a bit negative. And I think that's what happened. And it was probably, yeah, it was probably right. That was, that wasn't a good period for the club, where things then started to go wrong. That's opposite for you, then, to take that head coach role when he got set. It was so hard that that that made the meetings that week. I mean, I think I went on on the Monday with the, so the lads played, I think he played Workfield on the Sunday. And then I to meet them on the Monday, and they were, you know, first of all, you look after their wellbeing, because they were hurting, and the families were hurting, and there was a lot of uncertainty at that time. It was important that we looked after them, and, you know, give them time to heal a little bit, because there were some plays in that room where a close friendship with, with double. So, it was a matter of just, we, I think we played Catalan on, on the Saturday or the Friday night. We didn't have a long time, I think I had one session with them, one tournament session, and, you know, we, we just didn't have any time, and, you know, we got beaten that came, but I think what they did was he came together as a team, and there was, there was elements in there that did sort of got over what had happened only a few days earlier, and I could see you. And then, turning the week after was better, you know, there's a bit more of a buzzer around the place, you could start to put a little bit of structure into them, you weren't sort of spending time trying to look after them, I'm looking after the wellbeing and, and, and supporting them, it was now we could put some rugby back into them, we were able to do that, and, you know, yeah, they went all right, you know, we got, we got into playoffs didn't we? I don't think we deserve to go any further than send Ellens, I know, you know, we lost in that one, and, on a measure, I think that that's probably where we, where we were had enough time to do any more, we didn't, but what I thought we did do in that period, we made them competitive again, and we made, you know, we set them for some coming in, and he just took all of it down, and just, just how many? And then, in terms of, was there no desire for you to want to stay honest, had coach for the future? No, no, I, you know, I, probably years ago, it was, it was right for me to do. If I would be honest, you know, I wasn't, I was more, I come from, from obviously, I've been teaching for 15 years, I was more about systems and structure than like, you know, you know, that could feel, and if, if want to be a coach, you've got to, you've got to feel, I'm near, you know, I was well, well up on the game, but probably not. In other words, it wasn't for me that then, you know, did I enjoy it? Yeah, was it stressful? It was hard trying to get it back, but I think, you know, I can look back and think, you know, we, we did all right then, you're competitive, and like I said, I enjoyed it, but not enough to want to do it full time. I think my skills are better suited to other things rather than sort of coaching a team. You've always wanted to stay when obviously Sam came in. When, when I knew Sam was coming in, I was sort of hell bent on, on going back and doing the youth, and then Carl got me in, Calphage Patrick, and he said, look, you know, we're really happy with how things have gone, and, and sort of the impact that you've met around the first team and some of the bits of changes that you've met. And we want to go down a different route. We want to, we want to bring a director, a Ruby and would you be up for it? And I said, look, I'd be honored to do it. I would, and it sort of probably fit in my skill set. I mean, I love the game. I watched loads of games. I think I know, I think I know what a player good player looks like. I think I better know, I'm maybe not the best, best coach, but what I do know is, I do know what people learn, because that's what my career was for a long, long time. So I know how to make people or get people to learn better. And I think if you see the right type of person, and you speak to the right type of person and what their mindset is, you get a pretty good idea of what you can do with them in the week as well. And I think, you know, I think, I think we've shown that with the recruits that we've met over the last year, and this year, I think, I think they've come in and they've really done a job, you know, and I think they've added value to what we've got in there. Like, even this year, we haven't brought many in. I think Luke Yates coming in fitted perfectly for us. And we're lucky enough to get him back in the last year, weren't we? But really, you should have started this year. And he's been excellent so far in pre-season. He's just a leader. We brought in Ollie Leyland, and he's been great. I think he'll be tops. Yeah, he's typical half back. He's cocky, and he's, you know, but he's intelligent, and he's working so hard, you know. And then we've got Alfie Johnson. And people haven't seen Alfie Johnson yet, but they will do. And they'll surprise some people, I tell you, because he's big, and he's physical. And he's going to be a top-notch winger. And then we got Dan Russell in as well. And we brought Dan in because, obviously, we'd fit see having a bit of a shoulder issue and having an operation that he was getting to the stage when I'm thinking to myself, you know, we could be left just with sort of Adam O'Reilly and Nolan to be a start in the year. And that's tough for two young, two young back rowers. Or we'd maybe have to move Ben Curry back in the back row with Joe Philbin, or Toby King, or wind the back. You know, so we brought Dan Russell in. And, you know, he's being excellent in training as well. He's a big body. He's learning how to defend the way we want to defend and run lines and where we want to run lines. And I think he could chuck a few people as well. So, you know, we haven't recruited that heavily this year, which I think is is Alfie because, you know, everybody came in together and they would open running. They weren't learning new things all the time. It's been only a few people about to learn all the new stuff that we're doing or all the stuff that we did last year. And then we've improved on for this year. So, is there any more to come in terms of recruitment far away, isn't it? No, no, I don't think so. No, there's no more. We'll have to look for 20, at the end of 25, you know, there's people out of contract then. And obviously, there's probably things we need to look at. But, you know, we're looking around now. And we're, I mean, some are meeting regularly about what our options are with the players that we've still got. And, you know, whether they figuring with us for 26, we were out of contract. And, you know, what could we look like in 26? We knew players coming in if we want to go down that route. So, you know, we started that month ago. This isn't, you know, not, and it's like the people that I don't just, when we're looking at people, you know, we don't just go out and get them. But there's a lot of work goes on. So much is lots of videos on them. I watch lots of videos. We get character references, you know, do you want to spend time around these people? What do they like away from the club? And it does all things, what are they, what's their injury situation? Did he play minutes? Well, what else can he bring to your club? Well, that's, that's what they're, the other things that are important. Good people first, we've got a number of good young players coming in there. And I want those young players, like if they were young kids, I'd want them deep to be surrounded by good people. And that's, that's how we do it. And that's what we're trying to do. And it's, you know, for the, for the most of each work. In terms of excitement for that season, we've got Vegas. I think that's round three. Like, how excited did that go on about that? I was about a month ago. It is a month because I've still not had me deposit back from the hotel. So I went, I went there a month ago just to do a recce about what he's going to look like and spent, spent a week just going around and looking at what that week's going to be like. And it's full on. It's, it's going to be after being planned like meticulously to, to get the most out of it. Ultimately, we've got to win again there, you know, it's, it's brilliant Las Vegas and, and everything that goes with it. But we can't sort of get sidetracked. We've got to be wigging a, and we're, we're going all out for that. Yeah, some of the lads have got hammered with meetings and, and press things and, and then there's going to be group stuff where there's going to be all the Razimataz and big presentations and, you know, there's a full media package there. But we've got to sort of get that done in the right way, get it boxed off, get it out the way, get into some serious training and get a climatized after a flight really quickly, get into some serious training and get out there and win this game. And then get back in time to then do a fun, a really, really thorough recovery program, because we're going to get back on Monday, we play work field, I think on the Sunday the week after, so we've got to be right with the nutrition, right with the sleep patterns, right with the hydration, you know, we'll have to get cryo machines in and see how quickly we can get them recovered and get them ready to go and be work filled. So then that's sort of two game program, Wigan and work field, they're going to be, you know, they're going to be clinical and crucial for a sorry, they're going to be keen in what we do. If you look last year, I think we, we lost our on probably winning the league by losing the weekend because we put a young team in not a weekend team, a young team, we got to win every game, we got to win, you know, we've got to go off, so it's the attention to detail, it's making sure that when they're over there, we get them up at the right time when we land in Las Vegas, so we're planning on sending them to bed maybe at nine o'clock and then we'll put five going for a walk and then trying to get the sleep pattern ready as quickly as possible, getting them in the pool in the morning, getting the recovery right, getting them down to the UFC into their cryo therapy areas and all that, and then offer we think by Tuesday, you know, get them up early again, Wednesday, they're into some sort of normal sleep and routine, then we go against Penrith Panthers on the Thursday as a final touch up onto the main pitch at the stadium on Friday and then again time Saturday and then we fly back at nine o'clock Sunday morning, so it's, it's going to be full on for us. How much of a difficulty is that in terms of making sure that because there's so much going on off the field, they don't get distracted by what we need to do on the field and not just the gaming in Vegas, the games, they afterwards, such as our Seaway field and Sunday afterwards. Everything is, and this is where my job comes into it, everything is going to be planned meticulously so that when the lads turn up, they don't know anything's going on, you know, we've got to make sure that the the recce room that the lads have when we get to Vegas is got a TV in there, which is like, I think it's a thousand pounds for the week to rent a TV that we have to get like sofas in there, but we may have to buy blobs, sofas and put throws over them because they charge you fortune for bringing your own in and get a games console in there. And then in the next room, we've got to make sure that we get massage therapist in on key days and, you know, we have to, the diet program that we put in play said has got to be meticulous, we've got to have even down to having two sit-ins at breakfast, so there's you get your early rises and you get your late rises, so we'll have an early breakfast and we'll have a later breakfast, all the fluid intake's measured, even as much as we're going to try and buy a certain type of chewing gum so that when they're on the plane, the chewing chewing gum that's stimulating the saliva glands and keep them hydrated, it's booking seats on the plane that we're able to, we're able to have an aisle seat, say that it's Jimiaris and Paul Vaughn, two hours through the flight they're going to swap sides, so if one's at a left leg out, they can swap over and have a right leg out and just keep swapping them. It's all things like that, it's the detail, it's the small stuff that matters and then, you know, we've got to make sure, I mean, the plans that we put in place are meticulous to make it and then the lads just have to sort of pick up the go this day and then at this day you go in there and at this day, and it's all ready for them, they don't see any of this, if they don't see any of this and they don't want about any of this and we've done our job. Is it weight fill away, are we cast it? It is, so it's going to be odd, it's that of Paul's work field and some of his staff, so yeah, it'll be a tough game, we've got to make sure that we're at the right level and, you know, we've got to be able to make sure that that yo-yo isn't dipping up and down and we're consistently churning out and the squad may change, some may change his mind and put a different squad in there that week after I just don't know what you're talking about, but you'll know what he's doing. Go from Vegas to weight field, it's a bit different. Oh yeah, it will be weird honestly, the stadium and the razzamatas and, you know, the events that are going to be held in three months and nights, it's mind-blowing it. I mean I spoke to the guy at the NRL who was sort of shown us around with the Rekki and Anita's, the grand final in the NRL and he said nothing compared to Vegas, he said last year was incredible and he said this year will be even better. He said and I do grand finals in that four for the NRL, so it'll be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for them players and we've got to make it that way, I can't make it so that they're not happy with how things are, even as much as like getting their keycards put on an app on the phone, you know, we're going to do that early for them so that they're not worrying about losing keycards and being charged, squealing for things so they won't lose, unless they lose the phone they're going to be all right but we've got, we've got to sweat the small stuff on everything so we've got a big meeting, I've got to do some stuff on our Christmas on it actually, make sure it's right. It worked for you all the Christmas sir. I've got a bit to do, yeah, I love a couple of days in the NRL, give me a time just to spend a couple hours on it but not being around anybody and get it done. And in terms of the next season, I'm guessing the ultimate aim on his court, grand final. Yeah, we want to win trophies, we want to be competitive, it's a cliche, we want to make the town proud of what we're doing and go out and play some ad rugby every single week so that whether we come up against people that come off the field and come off the stadium, come out the ground thinking, you know, they've had a dig then, you know, I can't ask any more of that and I think that's a level that Sam gets him too, really stuff, the tough debate and I think it's a tough debate more often than not what we're doing more games and ultimately put us in the big games and hopefully when the grand final and challenge corporate and league leaders and do it for years after. Good cross definitely and in terms of the South guy, you obviously, like I said before, he played over two in the terms of white and you've been around the club for 36 years, like, you know, so you got an hour's director would be like, how proud does that all that make you? Oh, Ted, looky, you have to sort of pinch myself sometimes to, you know, to see, you know, the job I've got, there's not many jobs like this is, you know, everybody has to go to work and try to live in, I'm doing it, basically like an obby, it can be a bit of a stressful obby now and again but, you know, it gives me a chance to set a culture in the club to support some in what he's doing and in building his culture and his vision of what he thinks where he should be and get the right players in, get the young people through, just make it a good club and, you know, try and justify all the hard work that the board and Fitzy put into to get those in the right spot. So yeah, I've got, I've got a great job, a lot of very ugly. When you look back on your career, especially the playing career, is there any regrets at all? No, no, I've probably played too much with injury because you were, you know, we were, you're always chasing a new contract or things like that. At this time I've played with, you know, dislocated elbows, fractured eye sockets, broken thumbs, you know, and it was just, just stupid really, because ultimately you're going to get injured again, you're trying to protect your thumb and you'll, you'll do somebody's shoulder or, you know, or your rupees or something else because all your techniques wrong. So probably I'll still be down, but I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it. I think, you know, from me, playing career into doing a bit of coaching and then going into teaching, I think that's probably set me up to be in the position I am now, you know, things happen for a reason. And I think that reason sort of took me to where you're, I'm coming up 55 now. I think, you know, I'm, I'm smart enough and old enough now to, to know how to do things right and hopefully set, set a bit of a legacy, you know, support again, some in, in, in making this club somewhat quite special. Great to be here, Gavin. I do really appreciate you obviously joining me taking your time out today. I just want to ask a few quick five questions to finish off. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. So if you were going to have a night out, it was a free form of players you'd take with you. I would take with me Greg Mackie, because good blog was a good friend and I like this company. My mate was Henry Faffey. He was, he was, he's a brilliant guy, just, just a brilliant guy. And I think, you know, I've got a lot of time for him and they don't speak to me, no fun. Probably Lee Brie is just for the laugh. So we could stick back and watch what's going on, what he's doing for Felix. He was, he was a really good winger, wasn't he? He's got a lot of charge. He's probably gets a bit underrated, I think, by white and handsome players. Yeah, best blog ever, you know, we're, we're, what a good fellow he is, you know, really just top player, could play as long off as good as you could play a wing and, you know, he was brilliant in training and put a, put a, put a top fellow, a really, really top fellow man. I had a lot of time for him. And in terms of the best player, who would you say is the best player you play with? For me, Greg Mackey, I know there was Alan Langer and people like that, but I think what Greg Mackey, pound for pound was, was unbelievable, you know, so sad what happened to him. But as a player, he was, he was a genius, he was, he was brave, he was skillful, he was intelligent, he was a good man as well, you know, and he cared for the club and I thought he was, I thought he was, he was a hell of a player, it really was. What is your most memorable moment at Wynton? I know I've got a few, and we want some good games in that and, and some big games. I think, I think probably 94, 95, I was probably playing me best real big. I think I got an England squad and, and I got injured right at end, and I thought I was, I was playing well, and I really, you know, I don't say, you know, I don't say that easily. I'm not, I'm not like cocky body, but I, I knew, you know, I was playing against anybody else up against there. I was, I was going all right then, I think at that, that period, if I was ever going to play for me country, would have been that time in those, in those couple of years, 94, 95, probably 96, they were, they were good years for me and I enjoyed, I enjoyed them. Sometimes I never got the buzz out of the professional game that I sort of got out of the amateur game, you know, because there is that bit of pressure on it, and maybe that was an odd one, you know, it was hard to, to keep churning out week after week, but I really enjoyed it then back in the mid career, you know, I, I do miss it. I love to play, I loved it, but, you know, when I was picking up ninjas and that, and it just, it just becomes a harder tutorial. It's, it's just mental talk, it's a mild time to get yourself up and, you know, you're picking up ninjas and you're getting older and, you know, you, you're trying to do right for your club, but yeah, those years were, were good years for me, I think. During that time, sort of, when it went from part time to full time, was it, was that a difficult transition? That was the best of me. I was working on a, I was working on an ICI plant in Runcon, so, when, when I came up, I couldn't believe me luck, so it was, yeah, it was brilliant. I loved it, loved every minute of it, so like a dream come true to walk off that site and then walk into a full-time environment. Yeah, lucky, very, very, as you say, I've been really looking, more of them. What do you say to your boss? When that happens that day, you say, I'll say, I'm going to play every full-time? I was working for Peter. I am, it was, he was the owner at that time, and I was working with a lot of scouts, and I liked, you know, I liked me job, and, you know, it was the band who was brilliant, as you could imagine, you know, they were, they were brilliant, but it was, you know, winding them up, you know, you, you're on your last day, and, you know, your legs moving in a completely different direction, and, you know, it makes you say, I look, you are, because those fellows would probably stay on that site for next 20, 30 years, and never have done any of the experiences that I've been looking off to do, so, yeah, it was, it was a real, it was a good wind, a good wind opportunity, as well, I think. I only think that, like, when someone wins a lot of it, I wonder what, like, they say to the boss, like, it just comes into work and be like, oh, so I'm going to all know. You know, if I was doing what I'm doing now, I'd probably carry on, because I love what I'm doing, you know, it's tough on my wife, you know, I put a lot of time into it, I do, probably, you know, more than I need to, and, you know, we don't get the elitism, we deserve, and things like that, it's just that I enjoy being there, and, you know, she's massively supportive of it, and, you know, but it is tough on us sometimes, as well, but I'm like, you know, I get time to speak to you like this, and I've enjoyed talking for this time, and you can tell, you know, it's, it's a good time, just being able to talk as part of, you know, this is part of what I do, and, you know, I have a couple of days off now of Christmas, and, you know, I'll get, do what we need to do with family, and have a good time then, and I can, I'll start going back into it then, and get some more work done. Not a bad job, is that you have an excuse to go Vegas, like, she can't say, you can't go, can she? I've got Tenerife, and this is what my wife said, as well, we've got Tenerife, and I've got Vegas, we've got Catalan this year, as well, the youth are going to Australia, I might, she's over there, and I might push her, see if I can go to Australia, they did it, it's easy. I wouldn't, that would just come a year off, so, like I said, I'm dead lucky, I'm dead lucky, and then I get, every week you get the opportunity to go to where, again, warm and aware, and much, what we're building, come to sort of, come to fruition, and that, I love that, I love game days, I get nervous, but I love seeing these kids come in and do themselves justice and play with a bit of pride, and I love to see the players at Sam and the lads, you know, the staff work so hard, we'd to get them to a certain level, and I'm excited to see what they can do with this group this year, because three seasons going really well, so it's, you know, I'm ready for the season coming around as well. Yeah, and that brings me on to the final question, do you want you to win a grand final in the next five years? Yes, I think we do, I think, and I think it'll be sustained as well, I think we've got some fantastic young people coming through, I think we've got a number of senior players tied up for long periods of time, you know, like Matti Ashton and Josh Stearless who were just for a long time, and people like that, even, you know, we've been looking up Jordan Crowthers just extended, you know, and he's a top block and just having just solid people around the club, Sam Powell's extended his contract, so we've got, we don't have to have this big overall and bring loads of different players in, we can just, instead of having to accelerate people coming in to catch up with where we are, we're already up there so we can build again, we can build again and, you know, we've got an head coach who's inspirational and wants to keep adding other layers on and build and layers and make it even more attractive, so yeah, I can't win, we're lucky, very lucky. I think that's a big difference now, because it seemed like back in the day, it was more saints and we're going to get in those young players, you know, we're getting the, you know, the best ones going, whereas do you think we're competing now with that, we're getting the best ones? Yeah, if you look at, you know, you look at what Lindot's capable of, and what Taylor is, capable of, Leon Ayres will be number seven, you know, where everybody's in 2021, you know, some people said to me, they said to me the other way, the season launch, is it too much pressure on him, and no, no, there's no, he's, he messed up with him last year, though, you know, we played him too much, I could kick myself early, you know, it's, we spoke about, so it was, yeah, we added that sense. We put him in and he went so well and we were all moving on about giving him a break and then we played him against Solf and he got that bloody injury and it's bugging me to this day to, you know, to think, should we have took him out and, but he's all right, he's, he's turning well, he looks great, he looks great, you know, he's, he'll be ready to go start a season, so then you've got a good crop of young middles coming through, Luke Thompson, I'm sorry, Luke Thomas, he'll be a bonus for us, he got injured, SCL last year, he'll be brilliant this year, he's trained so hard, and then you've got, you know, Adam Alroyd, who's spoken about Tom Whitehead, who come in and did a really good job in there and there's a, there's a lot of, like, young Jeff Thieulis, and no one to be here and people like, we're just sitting ready to take, to go up, so we, we young, you know, relatively young, if you look at the age group of the team, it's a young team and I think there's, you know, it's all set up, you know, and then you've still got your people, you know, you keep people like George Williams and Danny and Mac Duftee and people like that, the balance is just right and they like to be around each other, they like each other's company, and yeah, I think we will, I do, I think, I think we'll win, I think we'll win. Right, it's the sea, going and I'm definitely very much looking forward to a season starting again, but again, thank you very much for your time, really do appreciate it, thank you again for listening guys, so like it's absolutely a while in Bandai, and cast don't forget to like and subscribe if you can please. Cheers guys, cheers
