In this episode, we dig into the worlds of subliminal and benevolent sexism, exposing the subtle ways gender norms can even sneak into a Target run. And just for you, we did in-field research. We'll explore how our favorite stores and places sneak stereotypes into everyday thoughts, and how they can influence us all. So grab your coffee and join us for some serious chats, goofy stories, and a lot of Bri singing.
We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism
Ep. 14: Make it Pink, Make it Blue
(upbeat music) - Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa. - And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. - We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently that's controversial. - Get comfy. (laughs) (upbeat music) - Hello. - I'm more sure. - Should we just every episode start with hello in a different language? - We're gonna run out of languages 'cause we only know a few. - That's true, we're gonna be offensive. Hey, but we are going to Disney and we could ride the small world ride and make notes. They say hello in a billion languages. Probably not a billion. It may be not a billion, but a lot. A few. Did you know, if you haven't ridden that ride recently, so last time I was, I love the last couple of times I was on it, I guess. They had, at the end, it pops up on a screen. There's a bunch of different screens as you're about to get off the ride. And it says, "Goodbye, Alyssa, goodbye, Brianna." Or whoever's name is in that boat. - 'Cause they're tracking you. - I know. - 'Cause of your magic band. - That's creepy. - That really freaked me out. I was like, wow, what a weird coincidence that they just happened to have all of our names. (laughing) So if you think Disney's not tracking you when you're there, they for sure are. They absolutely are. There's no question about it. Unless maybe you don't have a magic band on, but what fun is that? Very boring. I love a magic band. I want them to track me. If I get lost, come and find me, please. They did not track me though when I got lost. - Well, that was your own dumbest ball. - But the magic bands, sincerely, it breaks my heart at the end of our trip to not wear a magic band anymore. - It would break my heart. - I hate it. I hate taking it off. I just want to wear it all the time. It makes me happy. - Speaking of Disney, actually, when you were younger, did you hear about the subliminal messages in the Disney movies? Like the Renaissance Disney movies? - Mm-hmm. - There was inappropriate stuff drawn into the little mermaid. - And Lion King. - I remember Lion King distinctly. And Aladdin, and it was really popular. It was going around when I was in high school. And they're like, they're subliminally trying to put these ideas, the bad ideas into your kid's heads. - There was one in the Lion King, it was the clouds. I think as Mufasa is talking to Simba or whatever. And people thought it said sex. Supposedly, according to Disney. Now, believe what you want, I guess, but according to Disney, it was actually supposed to be SFX, which was like the special effects team. But, I mean, I don't know. Seems like a risky move to see. - Mm-hmm. - Pick a different acronym for your name. - But today, (laughing) (humming) - Today we're talking about subliminal sexism, which we got to do some research for. We did some infield research for this one. - Infield, if you mean going into Target. - We walked into Target. It was a great time. (laughing) We used it as an excuse to go to Target and get a Starbucks, and, you know, do a little walkabout. - We did take pictures, and we looked around at the things, and we probably bought some stuff, I really don't remember. - I've been there so many times, it's so hard to say. - I can 100% guarantee we bought stuff. - I want to start to get to know those people's names, 'cause I see them all the time. - Yeah, we're there a lot. - I should just walk in and be like, "Hey, Billy. "Hey, Bob, hi, Joe." - Those are all their names. - Billy, Bob, and Joe. - Yeah. - I noticed that you have no girl's names. - Billy could be a girl name, and so could Joe. (laughing) - I've never met a girl named Bob, though. (laughing) - We could have a Bob listening. - Bob. (laughing) - This is special shout out, just to you. (laughing) - So we're gonna talk about subliminal sexism in our little mini-soad today. - Mm-hmm. - And if you're confused on what that means, to me it kind of means little subtle sexist acts that you don't really realize, but it puts ideas in your head. - Mm-hmm. And we went into Target because we watched a TikTok? - I'm always on TikTok. - Mm-hmm. - And how children's clothing is different for boys and girls. And not just in the colors. - No. So like the characters that are on it, right? - Mm-hmm. So she was saying, think of the animals you typically see on boys' clothes. You see lions, you see tigers, you see T-Rexes, you see sharks. And on girls' clothes, more often than not, you're seeing hedgehogs, you're seeing piglets. - Mice. - You're seeing mice, you're seeing like rodents. And the difference there is that boys' clothes are predators and girls' clothes are prey. - Which you said that to me a while ago, and that was, that blew my mind. - Mm-hmm. - Because you do think of, if you think of sexism in clothing, you do often think of one is pink and one is blue. - Mm-hmm. - You don't think of the actual characters or the animals or whatever that are on there. - Mm-hmm. - And one of the other things that we observed while we were in Target was that for TV shows and stuff, if it was kind of a gender-neutral show or game or whatever, like we saw one for a lot for Mario. - Yeah. - And the boys' clothes would have the hero or the main person on there, and the girls' clothes would often have the secondary characters. - Side characters, yeah. - Right. - So the boys' clothes had Mario and Luigi, and the girls' clothes, you didn't really see Mario and Luigi at all, you saw it towed. And the secondary, like they're supporting characters, but they're not usually used as the main character. - You're not seeing a lot of girls' clothes with Mario and Luigi. - Right. - And it's hard to argue, oh well it's because those characters are boys, and these characters are girls, and I have these, the girls only want to wear girls on their shirts, and boys only want to wear boys, because toad I think is supposed to be a male character too, correct? So that one's on girls' clothes, - Mm-hmm. - But it's a less assuming character, it's a less threatening character. - It's a little mushroom. - He is cute. - He is pretty cute, but not without his hat. - No. Is that a hat? - Mm-hmm. - What? Did you not watch the Mario movie? - I sat through the Mario movie. - Quick, Google that. - No, that sounds horrifying. It's a hat? - Mm-hmm. - I thought he was a mushroom. - He's bald. - Oh, I don't like that. - Yeah. - I just like that very strongly. - I mean, if you're bald, that's fine, but toad is confusing. - Well, he's always shown with the mushroom head. - Mm-hmm. - I don't like that at all. (laughs) So those were some of the things that you had seen, and then we went into Target and we absolutely confirmed that that is true. - Yeah, absolutely. - You're not gonna see, I didn't say, I don't think I saw any girls clothes with bears or sharks or T-Rexes. - I think I saw a few with cute tigers, but there were very few in part between, whereas the boys' clothes, it's very obvious, there's no prey animals on there. It's all aggressive animals. (laughs) - Yeah, and I think, you know, I know people that don't necessarily believe in feminism think that some of this stuff is very far-fetched. Like, oh, come on, it's not really prey in predators, it's just whatever, but you have to ask yourself the question, then why? Then why is everything like that? Why wouldn't you see some things that were different? Also, I think the wording on clothes is very different for boys and girls. - Oh yeah. - You'll see boys, it's a lot of, and this is any kind of graphic tease that you see, it'll be adventure and, I don't know, super heroes and whatever, like the things that it talks about are extreme and even violence sometimes, whereas for girls, it's like inspirational. Live your best life. - Love. - Yeah, live, love, love. Live, love, love. (laughs) - I don't think we should have little girls but I don't think that's a little girl appropriate. - I actually haven't seen it. - I don't think that's kid appropriate. I'm pretty sure she just sleeps around India, I think that's basically the movie. - Really? - I'm pretty sure. - I eat prey love all the time, is that what I'm referring to? - Maybe. Oops, sorry, mom, sorry, grandma, sorry. - Everyone that you say would do? - Everyone, yeah. - So, one of the things that I saw in, as I was researching for this episode, that it was a term that I hadn't heard before, but makes total sense, was benevolent sexism. And I think this plays into this subliminal sexism as well. So, I'm gonna go into what that means, exactly. - Please do. - I shall. - Benevolent sexism is often also related to the church and it's this concept of, it is absolutely still sexism, but it's protecting women because they can't protect themselves. And we cherish women, but they're just a little bit weaker than we are. - And they're mild, they're meek, they're, we have to preserve their femininity. - Right. - You know, like, seen as like a flower. - Exactly, yes. So, this is from medical news today, and it says benevolent sexism includes views and behaviors that frame women is innocent, pure, caring and nurturing, fragile and in need of protection and beautiful. Now, it's not that as a woman, you can't be those things. I think I'm very beautiful. - I think I'm occasionally, nope. (laughing) - I think I'm occasionally fragile. - Emotionally when you watch movies for sure. - And commercials. - And just my own thoughts. - Yeah. (laughing) - A little fragile. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. It's other people putting that on all women. Anytime you say this must apply to an entire people group, whether that is a gender or a race or anything, it's not gonna fit everybody. And it automatically lends itself to sexism or racism or wherever you're at. Because you're trying to fit everybody in the tiny box. Now, there might be some women that are beautiful. Such as I. (laughing) And that's okay. There are some women that are innocent and that's okay. There are some women that feel more fragile at moments and in need of protection and that's okay. - But we can be so much more. - Exactly. - You know, I can be fragile, but I can also be powerful and confident. And I can be emotional, but I can also kick your fricking butt. (laughing) And I think it's important to flip that around too. I think I said flip around like a million times in the last episode. - Nah, nah, flip it in reverse it. - Nah, nah, nah, nah. - I ain't trying for it over the barry, blah, blah, blah. - I love when you sing and don't know the words. - Well, she sings it backwards. - What? - Yeah, you haven't heard that song. - No. - Oh, it's Missy Elliot. Isn't that old? - Yeah. - Okay. Anyway, I think it's important to also say that we put this stereotype on women exclusively, which means that men don't get to be these things. Men can't be in this view of benevolent sexism. Men can't be caring and nurturing. And what does that do to a family? - Yeah. - When dad, husband, boyfriend, whatever it is, isn't caring and nurturing. A man in this view can't be fragile and in need of protection. Apparently also can't be beautiful. Real struggle for him. (laughing) - You hear that, man? (laughing) - But I think an interesting piece of that is that men, again, in this view of things, can't put on makeup, can't care about personal grooming, can't have nail polish, can't whatever, because they can't be too concerned with their look because that would be considered feminine, and feminine equals weak. So femininity to them equals weakness. - Right. - And a man can't be weak. Because if you've got one weak link in the chain, it all falls apart. But that does not equal weakness, absolutely not. - If you want to wear a little bit of concealer, because you don't like whatever's happening on your face, or you just wanna invest in skincare, you wanna take time in the morning getting ready. You want to, hey, you enjoy going out to a nice meal, with a glass of wine. That's okay, that does not make you weak. - It's such a weird stereotype because you look at these men, they men, and we can't do any of these things. But then you look at, I think the idea is, women won't think a man is attractive if he looks feminine in any way, if he takes care of himself, if he whatever. And can I just say, please take care of yourself. But then on the flip side, like you have, but if you don't want to, that's fine. On the flip side, you have Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean with all this eyeliner, and women found him very attractive in that role. - We were swooned. - We were swooned. But he has super obvious, thick black eyeliner on. - Or the lead singer from Panic of the Disco, and he paints his nails and wears eyeliner. He's also very attractive. - Well, makeup heals, a lot of this stereotypically, now feminine stuff, was made for men, initially. When it came out, it was for men. - Yeah. - And it fell out of fashion because women started using it to look more masculine. - And then men were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. You can't look like us. And so they started not wearing those things. - Yeah, think of like King Louis, the question mark, whoever was married to Marie and Twinett. He was wearing pastels, he was wearing heels. - Right. Well, because that was the fashion, it was the style. And we like to take our 2024 vision and shove it all the way back in history and pretend it was always this way. There were always the manly men and the whatever. And that wasn't really the case, this wasn't a concern. Or that was what was considered manly back. - Exactly. - Yes. - Be a man. You must be shifted as a coursing mover. - You know, it breaks my heart because that's such a good song. There are so many songs from like older Disney movies. What's the one from Little Mermaid? - Where she-- - I could sing all of them right now. - I know you could. Where Ursula sings about singing-- ♪ Poor unfortunate souls ♪ - Yeah, but I need you to sing the proper parts. Men up there don't like a lot of glamour. - The men out there don't like a lot of blabber. - That's it. They think a girl who gossips is a boar. Yes, and Landis much preferred for ladies, not to say a word enough to all do, what is, I don't want it for. - What does she say there? - I don't prattle, I don't even know what that is. - Just talking, yeah, chatting. ♪ Poor unfortunate souls ♪ - Thank you. - Now we get to listen to that later. - I love that song. - I know you do. But all these songs back, you know, from Disney, and again, subliminal sexism to tie it back around. You know, we love all these songs are fun to sing, but what are they teaching young girls about who they are? - Yeah. - And I think Disney, at least with that one, was making a joke, and the Mulan one too. - I think, yes, they were making a joke, but it's still in there. - Right. - They've removed that part from the new little mermaid. - Well, listen to Karthi. - Or even things like jumping off that again, things that we say all the time, and they're just a slip of the tongue because it's so commonplace, but like boys will be boys, or throw like a girl, or I'm crying like a little girl. - Automatically means, oh, I don't want to do that 'cause girls are weak. - Right. - Girls are weak. Girls are weak, mad or strong. Boys will do whatever they want. - Well, one of the insults for being weak is a girl's... - Lady parts. - Lady parts. And first of all, why? Those lady parts are doing a lot of work. Let me tell you. - Like the strongest muscle out there. - Yeah, I pushed out two babies. - I didn't, still strong, breathe. - Still strong. - We just accept it in society. It's one of those things that we just say, "Well, it is what it is." Or, you know, I have a son and people all the time 'cause he's very rough and tumble. Like he wants to climb up things. He wants to, whatever. He's also very cuddly and sweet, but I'm constantly getting, "Well, he's such a boy, you were used to a girl, and he's such a boy." And no one means anything bad by that. I don't think anybody is meaning anything bad, but why are they saying it? They're saying it because he's adventurous, because he takes risks, now he's two, but takes the risks that a two-year-old would take and is a little bit rougher, wants to play outside, whatever. I get questions like, "Well, what about when he wants to go play sports, hunt, campfish?" You know, all the things that boys are supposed to want to do. And it's like, that doesn't make him a boy. That's not what will make him a man leader in life. He might, what does he, as a person, enjoy? Right. And if that means camping fine, if that means going to the theater with us, right? That's fine too. We would be pretty happy about that. Yeah, we're going to go see "Strek the Musical" soon. So excited. I'm so excited. One of the things I actually saw a long time ago was someone had posted, they were like a greeter at, for plays and stuff like that. And he said that it was so sad to see how many women would come in there with their partners. And the woman would be all dressed up and so excited and pumped to be there and whatever. And the man would be like, in jeans, clearly doesn't want to be there, has been dragged there, is throwing a hissy fit, you know, whatever, because that's not manly and mentioned like to do that. And that is toxic behavior. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Like my husband Nathan, the other day for a date night, took me up to see the symphony because they did a Disney one. How many times can we say Disney in this? Another day, okay. And it was totally his idea. And he was the one that wanted to get all dressed up. And because he as a person enjoys those things and knows that I enjoy them and wants to enjoy things with me. And what a wonderful thing to be able to do together. Well, as women, we're constantly told and even in movies and whatever, find an interest in what he has an interest in. And talk about that with him. But men are not being told the same things. They're not being told, oh, see what she's interested in because that will help your relationship along. Change yourself to fit him. Mm-hmm. It's like how there was a movie, "Bride Wars." Yeah. And she said, "The one girl is shopping for her wedding dress." I think it's Anne Hathaway is shopping for her wedding dress. And the consultant says, or somebody says, "That's Vera Wang. "You don't alter a Vera Wang to fit your body. "You alter your body to fit Vera Wang." (laughs) And you listen to that and you're just like, "Ugh." (laughs) No. But that's what we're telling girls in their relationships and how much worse is it in a relationship. You don't alter a man to fit yourself. You alter yourself to fit a man, your entire being. Yeah, everything you like, every bit of who you are. Now, that can go either way. If both of you like hunting, camping, fishing, whatever, great. Absolutely. Do those things together. Enjoy that. We have cousins that enjoy fishing a lot. And camping. And camping. That is not our vibe. Our inside of the family. Our side of the family. We actually would rather stay in a bed breakfast. (laughs) But I've seen them, this couple get to grow together and take their boys fishing and enjoy that together. And what a cool thing that is. And for me, that's not something that I would enjoy. That's not really something my husband enjoys a whole lot. But we get to do the things we enjoy together. Because I can give a little and he can give a little. And we can be in the middle, pre. ♪ You start walking your way ♪ ♪ I'll start walking mine ♪ ♪ We'll meet in the middle ♪ ♪ But ain't that old ♪ ♪ Georgia pine ♪ - Did you forget? - I wasn't sure what kind of dream it was. (laughs) ♪ We gained a lot of ♪ ♪ Croaking stuff ♪ ♪ My ear molds ♪ ♪ And no, no, no, no ♪ - Half of this episode is you singing. That's not true. I guarantee it. - That's just not true. - All right, all of you out there, I would like you to listen through. - Please cut it. - Give me some time stamps. - Cut half of that song. - Time stamps. That's what I want. That could be another fun time. (laughs) - All right, so back to this article from Medical News Today that talks about benevolent sexism. It says, this is some examples of what that could be. And I really like this because it pulls apart a lot of what we see in churches that pretends it's good for women. So it says examples include basing a woman's value on her role as a mother, wife, or girlfriend. Focusing attention and praise on someone's appearance rather than their other attributes because beauty is the most important thing. - I didn't even know that. - No pain, girl. Believing that people should not do things for themselves such as manage money or drive a car because of their gender, assuming that a person is a nurse, assistant, or secretary, not a doctor, executive, or manager based on their gender, and then supporting policies that make it difficult for women to work, have independence, or deviate from traditional gender roles. And this study that they reference here also says that men who endorsed or believed in benevolent sexism were more likely to support political policies, laws, things like that, that limited women's freedoms. - We watched a TikTok earlier. My gosh, we need to get off the app. Not me, it's you, that this guy shared a clip from a pastor preaching at his church. And he said that women are to be treated as princesses and treasured, and that if there was an intruder in their home, he's not gonna tap on his wife and say, "All right, it's your turn to take care of it." He's like, "No, of course, I as a man, that's my job. "I sleep closest to the door. "I on a plane sit in the aisle seat "in case someone were to come after her. "I'm the protector." But that almost, like you were saying, it limits women. It keeps them in a box. You're not allowed to protect yourself. You're not allowed to sleep on the other side of the bed. - Yeah. - Or have the aisle seat. What if she wants the aisle seat? Yeah, what if she needs to get up to P, 17 times? No, she has to climb over you 17 times. - It's really annoying. - And I think, you know, when you hear that, well, women are supposed to be princesses and queens and protected and whatever. Like at first, it sounds pretty good. - Mm-hmm. - I mean, I'd love to be a princess. Sounds like a great time. - Depends on where you're the princesses. - That's true, that's very true. But the practicality of it is that it sounds great until you realize that you're not allowed to deviate from it. That if you decide that you want to sleep on the other side of the bed, or if you decide as a woman that you want to drive a car, pump your own gas, have a career or whatever, that you're not allowed to, it keeps this stereotype that women are weak, right? That we can't protect ourselves. And one of the things that that pastor actually said was like, if someone breaks into our home, they've got three problems. It's me and Smith and Wesson, which is a gun. - I didn't actually know that. - Okay, well that's what it is. As though, because he's a man, he's more likely to be able to use a gun. Like I know, plenty of women who love shooting. - Yeah, it's this whole concept of, as a man, he is more likely to fix everything for her. To fix the situation. And it goes from lots of things. It's all the way from like, well, she can't pump her own gas. - Mom. (both laughing) - To, she can't arrange the furniture because she can't lift it up or whatever. Like she can't fit the room that she can't, or you won't let her. - Exactly. Now, as a woman, you prefer not to paint the room by yourself. That's fine if he prefers to paint the room. - As a person, if you prefer those things, or in your relationship, you've decided like, okay, I prefer things this way and you prefer things that way. That's fine. - Yeah. Well, like, there are certain parts of my marriage that would fall into that stereotypical marriage. Like, Nathan generally takes out the trash. Because frankly, it smells bad and there are flies. And I really dislike flies. But just because he normally does it, because it works within our relationship, doesn't mean that he has to do it or always does it. If I notice that that's not happening, I bring the trash cans back. Or what if as a single woman, I have to do everything. I have to pump my own gas because that's my stupid car. You know, I have to pay the bills or any single woman out there. That doesn't make you less of a woman. - Right. Well, when you look at the women in the Bible, you look at Mary Magdalene or Martha. These women are not spoken about as having husbands to my knowledge. They dropped their stuff and followed Jesus around. They were Jesus's friends. They dropped it like it was hot. They didn't have a man to protect them. And they were living in a much more dangerous time. They didn't have a man to take out the trash. They didn't have a man to do all these things. So they were doing it by themselves. And that was biblical womanhood. - Yeah. Within the church, keeping that idea in mind that women are weak and must be protected keeps women in their place. It keeps men in power. And we need as a womanhood, as a group of people to stand up and say, "Hey, that's not true." - Right. I am not weak. We have a place. - Get out of the way. - If you think about that, if you take it far enough, that's where a lot of the power dynamics can come from really easily. Because if you believe that women are weak, if you believe that they can't pump their own gas, that they can't pay the bills, that they can't, whatever, you don't want them leading your church. You don't want a person like that to be leading your church. So if you believe that, of course you wouldn't have that person lead your church. And it just happens to be an entire gender that they've decided this about. So I looked up another article about clothing and how that can be subliminally sexist. And I won't go too deep into it 'cause we don't have a ton more time. But this person was talking about awards shows and how nowadays you don't see as many women in dresses necessarily. But at awards shows you see women in these beautiful, elaborate, intense dresses. And the author of this particular article talked about how these clothes that we choose for women, whether it's a very, very tight fitting dress or a six inch heel or a heavy purse because she doesn't have pockets to put her things in. These things all restrain women. Now, if you love to wear a dress, if you love to wear heels, nothing against that. But the choices that fashion designers make, whether it's putting a mouse on a t-shirt and only giving girls the choice of pink or red or yellow. Or it's as a adult woman. Here's your six inch heel. You're going to be uncomfortable all night long. You might fall and break an ankle. You have to hold onto a man for support. Brank an ankle. (laughing) But think about that, heels, I mean, I'm not great at walking in heels anymore, but I have to hold onto my husband for support if I'm in a high enough heel. Especially going up and down stairs. Girl, forget it. Gotta hold onto something. I think heels have kind of come along way in that like when we were in high school, the like, stiletto, plaid form heels were the most popular. And I remember just practicing walking up and down the hallway. This was like, well, I don't want to look like an idiot draft. Like, I need to figure this out. Now, I personally choose heels if I want to wear heels that are like chunky or give me more support. Yeah, give me more support. But I still get that look at the leg. I don't really like it. But yeah, you're totally right. And also, whenever you see a dress and they're like, "Oh, it has pockets." Yes. Why do you think that's exciting? I don't have to carry a stupid purse. Well, this author talked about how for women, if you do manage to have pockets in something, it's usually like this tiny, little useless pocket. Like, why? If I sit down, my phone will absolutely fall. Yeah. And you can't even make these cute. There was a time where the phones were much smaller and so maybe pockets were made to fit those. It's been a hot minute. Phones are big. We need bigger pockets. Give me a pocket. I remember the last time when we went and saw six. I wore a blazer to that and it had pockets and they didn't have to carry a purse with me into the theater that they had to check. Right. That had all kinds of, I was able to put my phone in my wallet and all my stuff in this pocket. And it was a game changer, I'm telling you. Well, we make this joke like women get to carry everything with them or whatever. I don't want to carry everything with them. I don't want to. I want to carry my phone, my ID in case I want to drink and my debit card. And that is all I want on my end, maybe a lipstick. And a key, you know, so you can leave that key. Yeah, I guess. And if I had a proper pocket, I could do those things. But because I don't, I have this purse that frankly, depending on the purse, can cause skeletal issues. Okay, I'm not even kidding. I remember back in the day too. It was like almost at status symbol to see how heavy your purse is. Yes. How many things do you need? Just to survive. Four books in here. I'm like, I have my wallet, I have my firstborn, I have maybe 12 rocks in my purse. We have a cousin and she's, she's so funny. She carries absolutely everything she's ever owned with her. She's a gigantic purses, just a little Sherpa. And she's got her laptop with her at all times and all of her books and all of her assignments and whatever. And it's just, it's funny because obviously, you know, you can't put your laptop in a pocket, probably. Unless you got some intense pockets. I've seen some real good pockets. But expecting, you know, and that's for work for her. But outside of that and just in normal life, expecting women to have to carry all of these things, to have to carry your wallet. And also, yeah, the thought of like, oh, don't worry, she's got it. Don't worry, she's got it. She's got the gum, the diapers for the baby. Yeah, like all the things. And in heels yet. And I know as women, we like to say things like that. And I did it in heels to be like, and look how strong I am. Because we've had to change the narrative to say, no, we are actually incredibly strong. Heck yeah, we are. Everything you did, but also in heels. Mm-hmm. It's just sad that that has to be the comparison. Imagine how much further we could walk if we weren't in heels. Yeah, I saw a term on one of the articles that I was reading, calling it social devaluation. Mm. Yeah, that hits hard. It does. Let that sink in. Yeah. And what's really difficult about it is I see it seep into myself too. They call that implicit sexism. I was looking that up as well. So it's one of those things as opposed to explicit sexism, which is where someone is like overtly sexist. You know that when you see it. It's these little biases that you don't realize got stuck in your head when you were 10, and now they're coming back out when you're talking to your daughter. Subliminal messages. Subliminal messages. Right in a background. You don't think about it. You don't realize it. And how can we detox almost from that? Or the program? Yeah. Our brains. Yes. And I think it's so important to be aware of these things so that as we're raising our daughters or our nieces, or we're volunteering at church or at schools, or wherever you happen to be interacting with young children, that you can pull these things out of your vocabulary. Mm-hmm. There's another tic-tucker for the match. And she was talking about little feminist acts of-- I don't know what she does. But she was talking about how whenever she refers to someone that she doesn't know exactly whether they're male or female and they're in a position of power, she always says she. Yeah. Like if she's talking about a doctor, she's saying she. Actually, you showed that to me. And she did one about her relationship as well. And she said one of the things that she does is she doesn't essentially infantilize her partner. She doesn't take on buying Christmas presents for his family or making sure that he texted his mom on Mother's Day or whatever. And it's not out of gressiveness or violence. It's just to deprogram her brain and to always thinking, oh, this person's in a position of power. They must be a man. Yeah. Oh, because I'm a woman, I have to take on making sure that my husband maintains a relationship with his family. You know, right, because at least in the marriage perspective, like I did that for a while. And then I realized I'm not actually helping anyone here. My husband is a human being who has all the same abilities that I do, and he can handle it. He can handle buying presents. He can handle his own relationships. I don't need to do that for him because he's not a child. And I'm not his mother. Are you looking for a partner or a parent? All right, well, we should probably wrap this one up, guys, because this is longer than most of them. Well, we can really cut out a lot of my singing. No, I'm keeping that in, for sure. Really rude. 100% of the singing is staying in. No, thank you. Would you like me to think of another song to sing? I would love if you didn't. No, fine, we're the king of our eyes. Where did that wouldn't come from? Not a mouse. Not a-- I don't know. Not a bat. [LAUGHTER] I don't know. I hope you guys enjoyed that. I'm sorry. I'm going to go have a margarita. OK, you do that. We'll see you guys next week when we talk about toxic femininity. I said it right that time. I also got really confused. I was like, we just filmed a bat. That will come after this episode. All right, we'll see you guys later. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Love you. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]