SPIRIT School of Ministry
Full Salvation | SPIRIT School of Ministry Podcast #100
- Welcome to the Spirit School of Ministry podcast where we discuss discipleship in your everyday life. Hey everyone, Pastor David here with Jerabai Tascow, one of our teachers. - Cool. - And the great Pastor Bob will. - The great. - So great. - So great. - So great, hey, this is our 100th episode. - Wow. - And we're gonna be keeping it 100 this whole time. - Keep it 100. - Hopefully we will. But man, God's been faithful to us. We've said a lot of stuff. Do you even remember anything we've said? - Ask if I'm. - I hardly remember who was here. (laughing) - I mean, I'm sure within all those millions of words, we said there might've been a few that were scriptures that were good. - I think there were some pretty good scriptural things that went on there. - Yeah. - Probably. - Awesome. So we got a bit of an archive. If you haven't checked it out, go into the earlier episodes and see if there isn't anything that maybe the Lord's been speaking to you about and they couldn't enrich you. - Binge. - Awesome. Yeah, and binge you. - This one of the only good things you could binge on would be like spiritual things. - Yeah, really. - Yeah, Skittles will betray you, but Spirit podcast will not be. (laughing) - Some of those podcasts are really pretty good, actually. - They're really good. - Especially the ones that I wasn't on. (laughing) Those are pretty good. Awesome. Well, today we're talking about full salvation, which might be an interesting term to some people. So it's very important to us at Spirit School of Ministry and at Word of Life, our parent church, this idea of full salvation, the full gospel, the gospel of the kingdom. We refer to it as the message of life often, but this really refers to what God's whole plan is for us. And when I say full salvation though, Pastor Bob, what do you think if I was to put it out there to you? - I think it's twice as much as half salvation. (laughing) Three times as much as a third, but other than that, no, I believe that's coming into the fullness and likeness of Jesus Christ, Christ's likeness, and in his completion and the perfection of how God designed us from the beginning. Like that was his intent. I always like to say that that was his plan A, and he only had one plan. (laughing) But I think that sometimes when we say something like full salvation, I'm sure it's people listening, going full, what? You know, what are we talking about? Wait, isn't salvation just salvation? Well, no, because there's a fullness that occurs through the process of salvation because it's not just one thing. - Right, yeah. - And so that's probably a lot for somebody to chew on for a while. - Yeah, a tree. - You have to go study in their Bible for a while. - A tree isn't just a seed. - No. - The seed has the whole life of the tree in it. When you're initially saved and you receive Jesus, Christ begins to be formed in you. You are saved, and you're being saved through the sanctification process, being made more holy. And one day you will be fully saved, brought into the glory of God, oneness with God, and the whole creation will be set free. It's not just about us. It's about the whole creation being set free. So just think of it that way. If you've received salvation, you have received that seed. His seed abides in you. And it's gonna come to full ripening, full maturity. Do you have anything to throw in on this? - Joy, ex salvation. - I was gonna add that maturing aspect. Like, if you got everything you needed when you got saved, then you would have been instantly mature, but we know that is not the case. And so in the scriptures talk about growing up into, there is a maturing that has to happen. And, you know, we had classes this week in Spirit School of Ministry that were talking about perfection, going on unto perfection. And so that is the full picture of salvation. When salvation culminates in that glorification. There's a salvation to the Spirit, salvation to the soul, and salvation to the body. - Yeah. - I love that. And, you know, it's interesting because when you say the perfection word, a lot of people just like, what? There's no perfect, you can't, you know, he's perfect. Nobody else can be. - Right. - In reality, you know, it says be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. It's not just a, you know, well, try at it. We know you're gonna fail. - He's not just, he's not just exaggerating. - No. - Does he feel better about yourself? - No, it's a big exaggeration, but it's not great, but it's possible to him. - Yep. - Yeah. - Be perfect just kidding. - Yes. - Yeah, that's a great point. - Yeah, it's, yeah. God's really good, not this whole thing. That's the thing. When I start thinking about full salvation, I just think there's a component of full salvation that goes beyond just the individual. 'Cause I think a lot of times we teach it. People think of it like salvation, okay? I receive the Lord, so that's my thing. - Right. - You know, I was baptized. I'm born again. It's my thing. I got Holy Spirit. That's my thing. - Right. - But the reality is what God is, everything has to do with the body of Christ. - Yeah, that's right. - And so I believe that full salvation, it, yes, it's individuals, but it's the body of Christ together, which is a whole 'nother thing. - Right. - Which makes it even more impossible. (laughing) Right? - In man's effort. I mean, you're quoting Ephesians 4, right? - Yes. - 'Til we all attain to the unity of the faith and mature manhood and the Son of God. - Yes. - The bride becoming like the husband. - Yes. - One, you know, one glorious unity. - Right. - Which is, yeah, how's that gonna happen, Pastor Bob? - It's impossible. (laughing) Right? No, it's impossible, but with God. - Yep, all things. - All things are possible, and that's the reality of it, because I think it takes God put it there to totally, you know, just thinking about your own life, it's pretty tough to think that your own life could enter into something that looks like the perfection of God, his wholeness, right? Just that alone, 'cause you have to live with yourself and you're like, oh, mess that one up. And even when we start to appreciate God's grace and his, you know, him, you know, just touching our lives and forgiving us and bringing us along from glory to glory, even when we get that going in our brain, okay? It's, that's a lot. It's a lot just to go from there to, okay, so there's gonna be full salvation from me. But when you throw in full salvation for a people who will come into the unity of faith and enter into that together, it sounds, it is impossible. And I think God did that intentionally so that he would take it out of our hands and make it completely reliant on him. - Right, yeah, 'cause I mean, I think, you know, people have, we talked about this earlier in the week in our class too, that people misunderstand the idea of perfection, go let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation, let's go on to maturity. What do we not mean when we're talking about perfection? Or what, you know, we could say both sides, what do we mean and what do we not mean? What are some misunderstandings that might exist? - Right, well, the most common one is perfectionism, right? It's where I have to do every single thing perfectly and by most human standards, they create this crazy law, religious thing, which is a lot like the Old Testament how it was, you know, and they make it so impossible to live up to. It's just like everything you just said, Dad, it's easy to go, wow, God wants me to do this and he wants me to do this and he wants me to do this and how am I gonna do all this? I can't do all this and that's perfectionism. Or it can be, you know, bleed easily, quickly into legalism where we're beating people over the head with the Bible saying you're not doing it right, you're not doing it right. And we just throw love out the door, you know, and we're just beating them with the raw word, if you will. So that's one place where we talk about perfection, we're not talking about perfectionism and all of its humanistic ways of trying to be complete. - Yeah, yeah, I believe exactly that's true and also that it's not a bunch of works. - Right, right, right. - Although we are designed for good works, right, through faith and by faith, but works are not just gonna get us there to perfection. - Right. - That's not the deal, like I said earlier, we're fully reliant on his grace. The part we get to do and we teach this is to behold him. - Right. - We actually set our gaze on him. - Right. - And when you're gazing on someone, you lean, you kind of start to lean into them in many ways, right? And so, and as you, like we teach in our classes, when you're looking at him like that with that kind of a gaze, you start to become what you behold. - Yeah, that's right. - Right, you start to move there, you start to emulate, you start to, but without God's grace, his glory, his power, you don't get to do any of that. None of that actually happens. So, the, what it isn't, perfection isn't, what full salvation isn't, isn't me doing it because I did it. - Yeah, exactly. - It took all the eyes out of it. - Right. - Me. - Yeah. - And it's really a God thing that he allowed us to participate. - Mm-hmm, amen. - Yeah, I love that. - Yeah. - Do you think this is a common understanding of salvation in the church today, that we would actually become like Jesus? The Christ likeness, not Christ kind of likeness. - Kind of like, kind of like. - But actual, we would actually be Christ-like in every way. When he appears, we will be like him. - Sort of. - Yeah, kind of. - Kind of. - No, I mean, but do you think that's what we're aiming for as a general church, and we're not condemning anybody, but we're just kind of looking at it and saying, is this a new concept to people? What you've encountered, or do you think most people are sort of like, of course, I'm seeking to be just like Jesus, and I believe by the Holy Spirit, I'm gonna get there. - I think most people don't think that way in Christianity, because I think for it's taught probably as some kind of false doctrines, some kind of strange, cultish kind of teaching, you know? But God wants to find his rest and his people, he wants his glory to manifest in and through his people, so that we are representing, representing him. - Right. - Not just, not just kind of acting like him. - Right. - He actually wants to fully manifest through us. So the Bible tells us the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. I mean, I think you'll be, the flesh that will be seeing it together first will be his body, who's actually just there. Manifesting him, just, you know, and so yes, I don't think it's just an imitation, I don't think it's an act, you know, when people, when I hear people say, just act like a Christian, I'm like, oh. - Mm. (laughs) - Yeah. - That's a really, that be. - Come what you are, Christian, that's standard. - Become what you already are. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So to your question, David, I think that it's most common, and what I've experienced is that people understand salvation with respect to Jesus died on the cross from my sins, you know, that these sensual, basic, you know, most essential start of their salvation. But I just got a picture of this. I think a lot of people leave their salvation back 2000 some odd years ago, when Christ rose again from the dead and they're like, cool, I was saved. And it's very past tense to them. There is no present tense of salvation in their life. And I think that's when we start talking about full salvation, we're talking past, present, and future. - That's right. - We're talking every single aspect of who I am currently now this side of eternity in the material. And then after I pass and my spirit and soul go to be with the Lord, now I'm in eternity. And I'm in an eternal realm with the Lord. Like the Bible says, so shall we ever be with the Lord, right? When he returns. So I believe that a lot of people leave salvation in this past tense. They live in a past tense of their salvation instead of a present tense. 'Cause present tense would say, you know, there's justification that happened at the cross. Then there's a sanctification which we were talking about. And sanctification is a lifestyle. It's not only something that happened back at the cross. That's where we get the greasy gray stuff where people say like, oh, well, he died for my sins. So my sins are forgiven, which means that I can just live any old way. And it's like, no, no, no, 'cause you're discarding the middle part, the present part of salvation, which is sanctification. You now have to mortify the deeds of the flesh. You now have to walk out of what was bad habits, bad thinking, you know, if your mind has to be renewed, you need a new heart. Like there's more that needs to happen in the process. So to your question, I believe a lot of people live in the salvation of the past. - Yeah, or the salvation of the future. - That, oh, someday I'm gonna go to heaven, or someday I'm gonna be resurrected. Someday the final judgment's gonna come. And those are true, right? I mean, I think the most powerful scripture on this is Hebrews 10, 14, which I encourage everybody to memorize. It'll give you really a mind-blowing insight where the writer to Hebrew says, by a single sacrifice, he has perfected for all time, those who are being sanctified. So he has past, present and future going on. But what I was gonna say is that we, it's like the law of the excluded middle, right? Whatever, it's like we don't have the middle part. And this happened in John 11, where Jesus shows up to raise Lazarus from the dead. And Martha rolls up and goes, "Hey, you know, if you would have been here, "my brother wouldn't have died." And Jesus says, "Your brother will rise again." And she says, "I know he'll rise again on the last day." And he says, "I am the resurrection of the whole life, "even though whoever believes in me, "even though he die, yet will he live. "And whoever lives and believes in me will never die. "You believe this." And she said, "Yes, Lord, I believe you're the Christ "who's coming in the earth." And so she was like, "Yeah, I have this future hope." And that's awesome, that's part of it. That's amazing. That's the whole creation being set free, resurrection, all that, that we need that. But if we don't understand that he is the life, he, it to be Christ-like is to be free of death in every way, and it's here now. That's powerful, and that frees you in the moment. 'Cause I totally agree. It's either past-oriented or future-oriented. And we're missing the life that God has for us. - Yeah, the next. - So, yeah. - Well, the word speaks about that very plainly, and if we declare this in our life, it changes our life. I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live. Not that I, but Christ lives through me, yeah. - My favorite verse. - Yes, and the life that I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who died. He gave Himself for me. - Love me and gave Him the Son. - Love me, yeah. I mean, it's such a great, like, this is the greatness of our God, yeah. I mean, He's like, I love that He's so present. He's not a dead God, you know. You're the firstborn among many brethren. Hello, where's the brethren? - Right, the resurrection. - Right, that's right. - Exactly. - Powerful man. - Yeah. - That's so good. Is that possible that you would never die? - Yes. - Will impossible with God. - It's happened a few times. (laughing) - Yeah, old Enoch, he had it, you know. - He was the couple. - Yeah, some other guys got it in the Bible. Why is that important to emphasize being made like Him, never dying at the appearing of the Lord, coming in, putting on the imperishable, like the mortal body putting on the immortal? Why is that important that we emphasize that? Do you have any thoughts on this pastor bum? - Well, I think like I said earlier, it's God's first plan, not His second, number one. And so if we wanna get in line with the way God thinks, then we have to start to adopt that thinking. I also believe that there's been a lie, a perpetrator and on man, a conditioning, if you will, that everyone has to die and pay taxes, right? - One of those is true. - Yeah, one of those is true. But the deal is it doesn't have to, matter of fact, that it doesn't have to be, that's not God's plan. Yes, it's a pointed man wants to die, but there's something else coming down the line here with it. What's that do? - After that, that's judgment. - After that, yes. - But there's actually the life of Christ that He's wanting us to, He wants us to hold on to the life of God, which is not just white knuckling, holding on, hope you don't die kind of thing, but actually living in this present hour with power and authority, oppressing in toward Him. We don't pull back, we're pressing in to Him. And that's actually living your life now. And so the whole way you have to die, you might, but that wasn't his full plan. That wasn't his plan, right? I mean, he came to give life and life more abundant, not just, you know, oh, like here's life, take it back, you know, that kind of thing. So that's my feelings about that. - Yeah, I mean, man wasn't created to die. - Right, and that's why Jesus, He bore our death. It says in Second Timothy, He abolished death, past tense. - Right. - So if that gets worked out, if what's already true is not yet manifested, well someday it will be manifested. And are we gonna be ones that wait for that? Are we gonna be ones that hasten that day? Like it says in Second Peter three. What are we living for? Like what are we pursuing? We're pursuing Christ's likeness. We're pursuing the healing of the cosmos, the attaining to the resurrection. Like it says in Philippians three, we don't consider that we already attained it. We press on the mark of the prize of the high call of God. And so that's not something that is instantaneous, but it's something that we're seeking after. And if we're not like, what's motivating us really? I mean, I don't know, like what, I mean, I don't know if you guys have any other thoughts on that, but I can bounce it out to you guys, but. - No, I was just thinking back to your question about how, again, there's this present relationship that we have an opportunity to walk in after salvation. Right, it wasn't just Jesus did this for me and by Jesus, thank you, and let me go live my life now. No, now it's like, you said something interesting, David. You said, what are we living for? Right, and so that's the lifestyle. Does my lifestyle align with that salvation? Right, when John's talking about, you know, show me your works, I'll show you my faith by my works. Right, he says, I will say it this way, I will let my life be a witness and evidence of what I believe. So if that's manifesting in your life, that means that you do believe what you were saved into. Right, Jordan Peterson has this saying, 'cause everybody asks him all the time. He's a really great speaker, you know, psychologist and mentor, book writer, et cetera, but he says this, people ask him all the time, what do you believe in God? And he's like, I don't like that question, but the reason why he doesn't like the question is 'cause the way he answers it is I live as if he exists, which is very interesting way to put it, because if you just say you believe, but you don't act like you believe, then are you, in fact, living according to the salvation that you were called into? No. Or if you behave, you know, and act and your deeds are all done in faith towards God and they are in alignment with what he's called you into with salvation, it's gamification, and then going into this glorification stage in the future. If you aren't living in that alignment, then what are you doing, right? And so that's, I don't know, that's just where I get stirred up when I talk to people. I'm like, well, here's how we walk it out in our lifestyle. Like if we're talking about full salvation, you know, that middle ground is so important. Yeah, amen, absolutely. When will a full salvation come? Soon. (laughs) I'm sorry, I drifted off into a song in my mind. Oh, yeah, sing it to us. Well, it was an old song that we sang. Or to our church song, it was a in creation story. And it's something that David's, I know you know, and that he'll play the drums to it. But it was, when David said something, it just immediately made me think of, "Oh man was created." Never to die. I don't know this one. He walked in the garden. He walked in the garden. The father was nine. Right, uh-uh. Yeah, it was like. They fellowshiped there. God's presence was sweet. Oh yeah, like, so that's the deal. You have to walk in the garden with the Lord. All right, I mean, that's where, that's, you know, and you know, we know the veils been torn. We know that there's, we have direct access, you know, where the, you know, where we were kept out of the tree of life. Right. Okay. I believe that tree is actually Jesus also, you know, and of course, right? And life. Yeah, the life that, yeah. And so we're, we are supposed to partake of that tree daily. Right. And by the way, in the garden, Adam and Eve were to care for the tree. That's a whole nother thing. Ministering unto the Lord. Yes, which speaks to us and our caring for the Lord in our life and partaking of him and walking with the father. Yeah, it's just so great. They weren't supposed to just eat one fruit from the tree of life and never come back. They're supposed to eat continually of the tree of life. Yeah, because he, that's, that's immortality. That's our connection to the vine, to his life. And we're not just, oh, cool, I got saved. Now I'm done. Right. And I think that's like the faulty understanding of salvation. It's transactional. I already got everything I need from God. Right. And yeah, have you been counted righteous? Yes, that's a verdict. You know, like he, he pronounced that upon you, but it's to bring you in to a life with him and to bring his life into you. Right. And it is to create a connection where you're a branch on the vine. And he said, if anybody doesn't abide in the vine, he withers. You know, so you're, you're not going to be reaping the benefits of that salvation if you're disconnected. You're not plugged into the life and the body of Jesus. You're not plugged into relationship with him. You cannot be perfected. You can't be matured, you can't be brought to the fullness that he is designed you for. But I think a lot of people can, will actually hear this, hear what we're talking about and go, well, that's kind of ethereal. It's, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's a, you know, spiritual spookiness, you know, but the reality is, if you don't tap into who he actually is, if we keep our minds and our eyes and our life, totally focused on this life and how we live this physical life, even if it's a religious, even if it's a good Christian kind of thing. Christian subculture. Yes, not him, not the, not the father's life, not him. We, we, you know, a lot of things distract us and keep us away from focusing on him. Right. Right. And who he is, who he is to us in us and through us. Right. Right. And so those, those things, I believe, have kept people from partaking of full salvation. Yeah. I mean, you know, Paul wrote in Colossians, don't set your mind on things above. That's your affections on the heavenlies. Don't set it on the earth because if you set what, if you behold the world, you'll become like the world. Right. If you behold heaven and the Lord of heaven, you'll become like him. Right. It says in 1 Corinthians, just as we've borne the image of the man of dust. Sure. So we will bear the image of the man from heaven, which is Christ. If you set your mind on him, if you actually pursue him, if you're connected to him, if you're relating to him. Yeah. And so I think this all is relationship. Everything, everything in Christianity is relationship. People, when I hear perfection, I think what we said earlier of, I need to attain something. I need to like complete myself. I don't think of relationship necessarily because we think in terms of mathematical perfection or like aesthetic perfection, symmetry and things like that. Perfect 10 and gymnastics or something like that. But it's actually God's perfection, I believe is a relational perfection. It's perfect love. He is perfect love. That means he's perfect compassion, he's perfect patience, perfect indignation, everything that's perfect in relationship is in God. And so if we're not in that relationship, it's not going to influence us. It would be like me saying like, Oh, Pastor Bob is a huge influence in my life. I haven't seen him in seven years. I never talked to him. But one time, but one time he said he was my mentor. I don't know. I asked him one time if you had mentored me and he said yes. I've never followed up on that. Maybe this has happened to you. I'm just, I don't know, it could have happened. I've never actually liked your practice. I've told you, oh, I'll come under your authority, whatever. We're not talking about any specific individuals here. We're really not. I really, you know, I've probably done this to a mentor before. But a lot of times we want somebody to influence us, but within we don't pursue them and we don't relate to them. So how can we take on their wisdom? How can we take on their influence? How can we become like them if we're not in relationship? Well, I also like to say along those lines is there's a couple of pursuits here. One is the pursuit of him, of the father of the son, the Holy Spirit, of him directly. Okay. Right. But he also loves the pursuit that we have one for another. Yeah. Right. Because when two or three are gathered in his name, that's not just a nice little thing. You know, I'll be in the midst of it. You know, like what actually happens. And I think we're experiencing that today, actually right now right here, as well as we have in the past when we fellowship together, you know, because the blood of Jesus Christ is cleansing us in our fellowship. And he's in our midst. He becomes visible to us, right? And it's like, oh, I'm seeing Jesus, you know, being expressed and manifest in David, like the heart of Jesus, right? Like to bring the truth of the word of God. Like, no, you see it, right? He gets like, yeah, it's God, it says, it's truth, right? And that hits you, it hits your spirit and it should. It's designed, you know, and JT's like passion for God and in his presence. And it hits you, it should, it's supposed to hit you. And when we're bringing him to remembrance like that, he is here in our midst. He's right now. And actually anyone listening to this now, or especially if they're listening with someone, just start putting your mind on him. And then actually speak one to another about him and see if he doesn't just show up. Like he's already there. You become cognizant. Oh, he really is in the midst. - Right. - Yeah, that's a great thing. - I love that. - It's like how heaven's gonna be. - Yes. - Do we live that now? - It's the present presence, present presence. You, I mean, a few minutes ago in the podcast, I was biting my lip 'cause I was about to lose it. - I know, I was like, I was turning my eyes or watering up 'cause it's like you said, we were remembering him. That's one of the greatest things about salvation. I think that's an aspect to the fullness of it is remembering what he did, remembering the sacrifice, remembering how he just robed himself and washed his, his disciples' feet. And then he went to the cross, remembering these things. That keeps it present. And I'm sorry, but if you can't, if you don't immediately combust into Thanksgiving, you know, like something's wrong, something's off because when I, every time I start to think of what he did for me, but also you were speaking to it earlier, dad, what he did to set creation free, right? 'Cause there's a fuller picture. It was like David was speaking to it a little bit earlier. Like the, it wasn't just that man died. I mean, he did, but then creation got cursed. And everything got thrown into disarray and there's sin and decay and death and destruction and all sorts of things. And the earth is growing and travailing, waiting for the manifested sons of God, those who will walk out full salvation to show up in glory and to set creation free. So I mean, there's a bigger picture that needs to be understood, I'll say, like taught, caught and then, you know, implemented into our life. But yeah, just remembering what he did is a really good start. - You know, I love that. And I want to help somebody out there right now because I think that, you know, we do, we partake of communion, yes. And in communion, Paul tells us about this and I love it in some translations, probably the Amplified is probably one of my favorites. You know, he talks about that when we partake of him in communion, that we call him affectionately to ourselves, to our remembrance that you will, yeah. And I think that's the beauty of communion is like all of a sudden, the body of Christ, when the body of Christ partakes of communion, like you can go through the motions, right? You can go through the, you know, just the structure of it, if you will, right? I think, what do they call it in some religions, just a ritual or, you know, so you can do that if you want. But when the body of Christ actually sets their heart on him and realize, oh, you mean this, us just breaking this bread, you know, and drinking this wine together that somehow, like we're calling him, we're saying, come on, Father, we're inviting you here and we're sharing you together. - Right. - Yeah, we're completely. It goes so much past, just like it's like a sacrament or it goes into a reality of his presence now. - Yeah. - And when we partake of that, we're partaking of the bread of life together because we're calling him. And it's an affection to calling. That's why I look at it like a feast. - Right. - That's the Old Testament feast we're designed to, for remembrance, they were designed to call him. You know, remember him, if you will. Here we are. Yeah. - Yeah. - You're here, we're good. (laughing) We're good. - I think that's so cool. And I mean, the idea is the life of God. This is salvation is life. And so because of sin, death entered, there was a cosmic divorce. There is a death of relationship, a death of intimacy, death of our physical bodies, death of our soul. And the author of life came in a human body. And his body was torn. And he offered it up like bread that was torn for the life of the world, you know? And he saved our lives. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but has passed from death to life. Like a seed that has birthed. And so that's what happens when you come to Jesus and you say, yeah, Lord, I need to be saved. You're Lord, I'm not Lord anymore. You be Lord. I'm not providing my own life. I'm not figuring out my own life. I need to eat the scroll. I need to eat the fruit. I need to eat the bread. And is that the end? No, that has to grow into something. He wants to create a son. He wants to create a daughter. He wants to create a partner. He wants to create a bride. He wants to create a co-ruler. He wants to create an emperor with him overall creation. That is the life that he has for us. And we settle for junk. We're like, oh, well, at least I'm not going to hell now. At least I'm not coming under judgment. That's good enough for me. But you are missing out on life. You're missing out on abundant life. You know, I can't even keep going on that. Because you can settle for so much less than what he has. The work that needs to be done, I think somebody might need to hear this, but it's not like he's doing more to save you after you get saved. He's finished the work. The work's done. The application is ongoing. The growth is ongoing. The ripening is ongoing. Just so we understand that. It's the fruit that's being developed in us. But how does, yeah, go ahead. But also when we're partaking of him, like I said, I think JT mentioned this earlier, there's a maturity happening in our lives. Our whole life, right? I don't believe our spirit's being matured. I think we get a perfect spirit born, God, and corrupt all that. But our soul, right? And us, the us part. You part. As well as our physical body is, you know, by the power of God. Right. Someday we'll be changed. Yes. And so that doesn't, a maturity doesn't happen in the absence of nourishment. Okay. And it gets crazier than that, right? Like, because a baby, a baby won't thrive. You could feed a baby intravenously. But if you don't touch, maybe, if you don't hug it, you don't hold it, it won't thrive. It'll just pass. Right. And so we see this, like, the maturity aspect requires feeding on him. Sure. Because without that, you don't grow. Right. It means being embraced by it. Right. It's powerful. Yeah. Or else you don't thrive. Right. And in that process, when you partake of that process, you mature and you're able to bring forth life. That's right. Like, see, and I think, I'm actually going to be, I think I'm going to be speaking about this sometimes real soon in church. But some of the Lord put in my heart a couple of days ago is that, you know, maturity brings life, not in maturity. Babies don't, babies don't make other babies. Right. That's powerful. Right. Right. So it's powerful. I think I've come from cultures that would say, yeah, I mean, you got saved. You need to read the word. You need to eat. But maybe you don't need to be embraced by the Holy Spirit. Maybe you don't need to encounter His presence. Yes. Maybe you don't need to be filled to fullness, you know? Yeah. You kind of already have that. Yeah. You know, you don't need to seek that embrace. You know, you don't need the body of Christ as much. You need only this eating. You need the intravenous, you know? And I've been, I've thought that way before. And I just, just that convicted me where it was like, they need to be embraced just as much as they need to be fed. Right. You, sometimes it's not as important to feed somebody as it is to embrace somebody. Right. But other times it's more important to feed them too. Absolutely. So we have to have that discernment, right? And I just thought that was so powerful. What you said that as we come to maturity, we're able to then pass on what we've been given. We're agents of life. Right. Yes. We're messengers of life, right? Words, yeah. We're actually, I actually believe we're issuers of life. Exactly. Like, I think it actually issues, issues from us that we are actually able to put in someone else the life that we've been given. Right. To me, yeah. The kingdom, right? We're actually able to deposit it in them. Right. This is a great thing, actually, you know? And it's not just us doing it in our might, in our power. It's God. He's working and in through us all the time. Right. But to just, like I said, we try to make excuses to just do, to take second best. And when we're talking about full salvation, we're talking about the best. Right. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah, you know. Yeah. And there's so much applications to this. We could talk about how this applies to our daily life. One way it applies to me is, is I realize this isn't just about me. It's not about me only being hurt. Right. It's like, oh, cool. I didn't sin for seven days or something. You know, that's not long. I've never been able to, I've never been able to say that. I would give myself a hand to if that had ever happened. No, it isn't. You too can live seven days. He was in the coma. Come Lord Jesus come. But I just think, hey, this is about the life that God wants to sow through us. He wants us to sow the seed. A sower went out to sow. Yes. The life of the world was Jesus Christ. And he said, I came to sow. The sower is the Son of Man. The seed is the word. Some of it got shriveled. Some of it got choked. Some of it got eaten by the birds. Some of it ripened. Some of it produced 34, 50, 100. And he said, I'm here to give my life for the sake of others coming to life. And for the creation coming to life. And so we have to see that as like, wow, our mission is really big. It's so easy to look at ourselves and say like, how do I eliminate this sin? But it's really like, no, we need to be out profusely giving the life of God and the love of God. And hopefully that sin will then take care of it. Self as you're seeking first the kingdom. Sure. Anyway, but do you have any thoughts on daily other applications of this? Geribi? Like why this? A little bit. Yeah. As you were saying, you touched down on Holy Spirit and I'm a Holy Spirit like guy. I love the Holy Spirit. I've had a fresh revelation of who he is after 40 years in the Lord. And the last three or four years have just been crazy. But scripture says walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. So all the areas of life that want to rob us of that present walk with God, that affection, that attention, all those areas that want to siphon that off of us. And you know, like Princess Bride, right? I've taken one year of your life with right? Not to 50. Not to 50. There's all, that's what the cares of we're Princess Bride fanatics. But that's what that's what the cares of life will do. You know, you're talking about the sower and the seed. The cares of life choked out the Word of God. And there's weeds and there's these things that are growing around us. And we're in a world that's fallen. And so we're navigating through all of that. And as we do, we have to remember that we have a guide to walk us through that. And he's leading us into a place of preservation, you know, scripture that says, I pray that your whole spirit, soul, body be preserved, right? So all of us, our spirit was saved at that initial start of salvation. Our soul gets regenerated and reborn in the waters of baptism. And then we receive the Holy Spirit, the empowerment, the seal of the promise, right? The Old Testament has the perfect picture of this when the Israelites come out of Egypt, right? That's salvation. Then they go through the waters and then they are wandering, but they're supposed to be getting to the promise, right? And that's the epitome of the salvation walk, right? You're justified, you get pulled out, you get cleaned up, and there's a sanctification process. And you have to walk that out with the Lord. It might take, yeah, I mean, oh, yeah, there's plenty of things that will get buried, my friend. Oh, yes, but then there is an end game. There's the promise. And we know Christ is the promise. So shall we ever be with him? Because we will be like him. That's the beholding we were talking about earlier. But we will be like Christ. I know that is our aim. That's full salvation in my mind is to be like Jesus. First born of many brethren, I want to be one of those brothers. And I know that other people do too. And so if we operate on a daily basis with that in mind, we have to keep that in mind. It's having that full perspective. When it happened at the cross, when I came to know about it, how it shows up and what I orient my life to in the daily, but then where we're going in being glorified, in being part of Christ. We are part of Christ's body, but being recognized as a son of God, because we will be like him at that. I know that sounds ethereal, but to me how to make that, how to make that every day is to remember him and then to walk according to the spirit. As the Holy Spirit leads and as he teaches and as he guides, as he opens up the Word, as we're in the Word, who is Jesus, then we will become more and more like him. He's the one who knows Christ the best. He's the one who can lead us into all truth. He can lead us into Jesus. The pillar of cloud and fire. That's right. He does too. It's the full story. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. So the Old Testament is just a bunch of stories. Oh man, they're good stories. I was reading Ezekiel the other day. I'm not going to rabbit trail it, but that guy didn't mess around. You knew about the glory again. Hester Bob, how does this affect this idea of full salvation? How does this affect your ministry to others? How would it deepen maybe your approach to ministry? So for me personally, what it helps with is because we're all in the ministry. We, it's our lives. It's what we do. It's what we're committed to. It's what we love and sometimes not. But what helps me is seeing, but seeing through the eyes of the Lord, okay, what he has for people. And knowing that, oh, your bone in my bone and flesh in my flesh, like we're going into this together. Right. So when I'm in ministry, if you will, if I'm counseling or praying for someone or teaching someone or whatever God has, has me doing at that moment, I'm looking at it as though, oh, we're getting, we're getting closer together to him. Like that's how I approach ministries. Like, oh, I want to, I want to, I want to increase this person's awareness of Christ so that they will grow closer to him and me. And together we'll, we'll manifest him. So I think if you, if you don't have that idea of ministry, it becomes a lot of work. Yeah. All right. And we've all suffered that. I'd be a fool or a liar to say, oh, no, I always do that at every moment. Right. That's just not the truth. It's just, you know, but you have to keep your mind on that. That's right. Keep, you have to bring yourself that to that. And so sometimes, you know, it can be draining, but you have to, you know, you know, just like for the joy that was set before. So I think we have to set that joy before us. We have to start, you know, ourselves, we have to like, oh, so really God's looking at this person that I'm ministering to or a people group that I'm ministering to. And he loves them intensely and he wants them to be with him. Yeah. Like fully with him. And he wants them to develop fully into him. Right. Into what he's like. That's good. Yeah. And so, and if I understand really what ministry is, that's my commission then, is to like him to bring many sons into that place. Yes. That's right. And daughters. Right. Yeah. Okay. But the, but that's that's really what that's the heart of ministry when you think about it. Because what else is there? Right. Right. If you're ministering to somebody deliverance to get them unhooked from drugs, you know, or some other addiction or some horrible thing, fear that's going on them. What's that just so that they can be free? And that's it. You know, like just leave them there. And then what happens? They just, you know, keep, they find some other addiction or some other thing to mess up with. Or they just kind of float along. But no, it's to bring them to give them to help them. Right. Because you know, help them get a vision of Christ and him and them in Christ. That's right. And us in Christ together. Right. Because that's what he's coming back for as a glorious body without spotter ring. Not just, like I said, if we have to get it out of the realm of just one of us. Right. Yeah. Yes, we pay attention to our lives. We should be focused on trying to bring our life in line with God and be holding him like we're focusing. But ultimately it's his church. Right. And we can't. And so when you're ministering to somebody, you're ministering to his body. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. You're taking up where he, you know, we mentioned about how he, he disclosed himself to his disciples and they washed them. He demonstrated what he does. And if he is our head and we're his body, then that's what we're supposed to do. And that is, I think that is one of the toughest parts of this full salvation idea. Because it means, yes, dying to self. It means the self has to decrease. It means my ambition and my idea of things and what I want to become and group, you know, accomplish all those, they, they just pale in comparison to being a true minister of Christ because you were laying all that down just like he did. He laid down and came to earth, right? Took on the form of, of a man and it was part of God's plan, which is just awesome. And then he also had to suffer the ultimate suffering, which everybody thinks is death. It was not just his natural death. It was his spiritual separation from God the father. That was the ultimate like, I don't want that to happen. You know, I believe that was one of the greatest things Jesus was grieved by. And he restored that for us. Because every man, woman and child is born into that state where they are separated from God. And then he brings them into a place of fellowship and it redeems that back. And, and it's so funny. We like, Oh, thank you so much for setting me free. You know, I mean, imagine being a prisoner of war and, and somebody comes and sets you free and you just go, thanks. And you take off and you never say anything to that person. Say, yeah, you know, I mean, like it's so bizarre. Ten lepers. It is the ten lepers and the one who was not even who's a Samaritan came back and thanked him and wanted to understand how did you set me free? How did you, what did this, you know, and so that is the beauty of what is available to us. Yeah, in the salvation mess, I think that's a really important point that full salvation is full salvation from David. Yeah, for me. Yeah. That means I no longer will be living for David. It's not right. Didn't he say it's not? No, it's no longer I that lives, but Christ. Because I always want to throw in living for David. Maybe Jesus can help me. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I do a few more things right. Jesus will help me even more. Maybe I get rid of a few more sins. He'll help me even more. You need some Jesus seasoning on it. I still need, you know, then you're still not free from me, you know, like you're not, you're not saying I'm living for life. All right. I'm still trying to use life for myself. You know, it's, I'm living to eat, not eating to live. Okay. I want to think it that way. Like if it's no longer like my own personal attainments that give me joy, well, then what am I living for? Well, life. Being able to live with God, being able to do what I should do every day with God for him, for other people. Yeah. I don't have to get something for myself out of it. And that's what our eternal state is going to be. We're going to be completely living for God and living for others. And it's, we're not going to be hindered by this pride. We're not going to be hindered by bitterness. We're not going to be hindered by any guilt or disease or depression or any form of death. Right. Because it says in the Bible, he must reign until every enemy is put under his feet. Right. And the last enemy will be death. What is mortal? What is death will be swallowed up by life. Right. So the life of God, if you're listening, it's going to swallow up death in you. Yeah. And all only life will remain. Right. And in this world, I mean, it doesn't look like it to our eye. We walk by faith, not by sight. But the death that's in this world will be swallowed up by the kingdom of life. Right. And only life will remain. I love it. And so, yeah, I mean, it doesn't, it's something to hope for. It's something to pursue. Paul said, who hopes for what he already has? Right. We need to hope for this. Yeah. We need to pursue it. We need to tell other people about it. Because otherwise, we're just, we just have to settle for a dead world. Right. And just say, well, maybe he'll get us out of it. Or maybe we can get out of here. Right. Right. I don't know. Well, we have to make a distinction between Christ's life and the natural life we live. Right. And so, and that's why God, you know, when he's here on earth, he's like, if you hold on to that life, you'll lose that. And so much of a, so much of our lives, we are holding on to our life. Right. And, and, and we're losing it in the process. We just don't know it. But if we lose that life to him, like you said, if we get, get rid of the, you know, not I do this plus David, plus Bob, plus Dave. Right. But if we actually lose our life to him and just allow him to work in and through us. Right. And this is, this is not a works thing. Right. And it's not done just because you just deal it hard. But if I want to just say it one last time, if you are not be holding him, if you're not, if your eyes are not fixed on him, if you're not, if your hope is not in him, it's just in what you can do. Right. You will not grasp this. Right. You know, you, you must understand that, you know, you are dead and your life is hit with Christ. That's right. That's where, that's where our life actually is. Yeah. We just need to let go of this other dead life that really, a lot. And apprehend that life that we were apprehended for in him. Yeah. Just bring that and, and say, yeah, I want that. Yeah. Just just look at him. Just look at him. See what he does for you. Yeah. Yeah. So good. That's good that. And it's something that, you know, Pastor Bob is my spiritual dad. So there's something he says all the time I hear when he teaches them it. But these things, I could almost hear somebody saying, okay, we'll give my whole life to God. What does that, what does that even mean? I'm already saved. Like, what does that even mean? And it's like, it's actually more simple than we think. When we say beholding, it is putting him first in your life, talking to him, praying, yes, reading the word, because when you read the word, you are, you're reading Jesus. You're reading his nature, his character, the, the nature of God, the character of God. And, and, and just like eating a natural meal, I, I told someone this the other day, like you don't know exactly all the benefits, reactions, chemically of what's going on when you actually eat food. You just know it tastes good and it went down okay. And it produced something for me. And I have to do this again in six hours, right? And I have to do it again. And six, like, we have to eat. So for the body, if food is important to the believer, to the soul, the word of God is a nourishment. And so there are some very simple things that you just can start to do that turn your affection towards him. And that is what beholding is. It's putting him first. It's making him Lord of your life, not just past savior, right? It's saved. Yes. Being saved. Hope to be saved. And the being saved, hope to be saved. You have to make him Lord of your life. And that's simple. Invite him into every area. Lord, here's my finances. Lord, here's my job. Lord, here's my relationship. I need you. Yes. I need you to govern these areas. Be Lord over all of my life. Teach me how to release my life in all these avenues into your hands more perfectly and let you, you know, direct my steps. Yeah, I think it's simple. It's simple. I mean, it's as simple as this. Like, I don't want to forgive someone. I go, I pulled Jesus into my mind and he's on the cross and he goes, father, forgive David, he doesn't know what he's doing. Can I go? Oh, okay. I don't want to serve this person. What am I getting out of this? Right. I put in my mind the creator of the universe. He put on a towel and he gets down. I see him washing the feet of Judas. Yeah, sure. I go, oh, yeah. And it's the beauty of who he is and what he chose to do. And the Holy Spirit says, let's do that. Yeah. And he helps you do that. That's right. He infuses it into you from the word, you know, from the revelation. And when you behold him perfectly, you become like him perfectly. If you behold him through a glass darkly, you become a reflection of him from one degree of glory to the next. This is biblical. Right. So it is simple. Look at Jesus. Let him melt your heart and live out of that. I mean, even Jesus practiced this. He would retreat to desolate places to pray. He'd be in the presence of his father and he'd come out like a storm. And he would do anything. He'd be like, they'd say, where's Jesus? I don't know. He was connecting to the source. He's connecting to the vine. That's right. And so we always, it's simple. We just don't do it. I don't, we just don't do it enough. Like, do we have time that's unhurried where we just connect with God? And where we let him refresh us. And we renew and polish his image in our mind. Right. Because then we say, I do live like that. That's who I really am. That's who I really want to be. And by the power of the Spirit, you will, you'll. That's right. Yeah. So it really isn't rocket science. It's just kind of hard with the world's influence and with your flesh. But that's why we talk about discipleship. And it's like, that's why we train ourselves to godliness. Right. Not to earn anything, but actually to ripen what we really are. Yeah. So I think that kind of got to the end of our time. I'd like to pray for you. Yeah, pray us out. Absolutely. Close however you want, Pastor Bob. Yeah. Yeah, we just put our hearts on you, Father. Thank you, Lord. And Father, for people listening right now, Father, I pray that they would take this moment to remember you. Yes, Lord, remember. Father, remember how much you've done for us, how much you've done for me, personally, and for anyone, Father listening. And actually partaking right now of this moment. Father, remember how you have saved me. And you're saving me today. And you promise to bring full salvation. So we remember you, God. We bring you God affectionately to our members. Yes. And so God. Thank you, Lord, for what you did. We lift you up, oh, God. Our fellowship is sweet with you right now, God. In Jesus' name, Father, I pray that you would do what you do in this moment. Amen. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to get the latest episode. And for more information, visit spiritschoolofministry.com.