SPIRIT School of Ministry
Truth or Consequence | SPIRIT School of Ministry Podcast #99
Welcome to the Spirit School of Ministry podcast, where we discuss discipleship in everyday life. Howdy there, Bob here. Over way over there. I mean, way over there is Pastor David. Hi. You're getting further away. Is it my eyes? No, no, no. And here, much too close because I'm within probably smacking range is the elaborate, efficient, elaborate, elaborate. You're a very elaborate person, Pastor Liz. Wow. Yes, sometimes even confusing, but that's just to me. Wow. Anyway, now that people are going to wonder, because see, these questions that I prepared for you to is going to bring out the elaborateness of your mind. I feel like I need to get you one of those dictionaries with the vocabulary of the day. Something like that. Can you do that? I have new words about a dictionary that just has the actual definitions of words. They have one of those. They don't have a dictionary like that. No. What are we talking about? I well, that's a very good question. That's an elaborate question. Oh, thank gosh. Yes, we're going to talk about truth. Truth. Truth or consequences? Sounds like a game show. Yeah, that was before your time. Okay. I'll take your word for it. Still going. But yeah, truth. So I have these questions about truth that you guys can probably help me with. Is this true? Yes. What are the consequences? Exactly. You get to figure out the consequences along the way. If you don't actually answer with truth, there will be consequences right here. People will see the consequences as they watch. If they're watching or if they're listening, if they're listening, they'll probably just hear the screams. David's on his way out. He's leaving this one. He'd introvert time. I need to be alone. Now, this is truth. See, Pastor David needs time alone. Yeah. You know? Me too. He says it's time alone with God, but I think he would settle it's time alone with himself. This is truth. Yeah. Truth? You only have to wait like 16 more years. I know. I know. Some decisions have been made that exclude that sort of alone at the time. And they have consequences. They all, your decisions had consequences. Yes. Now they're upon you. Good consequences. Yes. But alone consequences. Sometimes people know alone consequences. Now, let's get down to business here because this is a very serious subject. Even though you guys are just kidding around through it all. Make a man out of us. One out of two. He has no idea. No, it's okay. Oh, were we talking about a movie just then? Oh, geez. Great movie. Oh, man. Okay. Well, let's not talk about movies. You know, you know, right. You. Wait a minute. I happen to know a line in a movie. Do you? That has to do in the mountains. AKA, Joe and the volcano. AKA might know a line from a movie. Yes. What is it? Can you repeat it on this podcast? Truth. You can't handle the truth. I just watched that movie. Oh, it's a good movie. That's a good movie. What was that? Did you order the code red? It's a Mountain Dew commercial. I have no idea what I'm like. I just didn't know it. Maybe we'll just make this a laugh. A laugh is not a podcast where we just talk about movie references. You just laugh. Yeah. Okay. Let's do that today. Matter of fact, forget this truth stuff. There's no reason to keep going with this, obviously. Now, what I have now, this is serious now. Do you think there's anybody still listening? I don't know. Or did they, did they just fast forward? There's a couple. There's a diehards. Really? Yeah. There are. Diehards. That's a movie. That's good. Yeah. I got a movie reference in without any help from the gallery here. Oh, man. I feel really like, you know, I can leave now here. You take my notes. I'm gone. I'm gone. So why is true? I feel like that guy that thought in that movie that thought he was going to be rewarded, but then he was just shot. He was left in the elevator. Elevator shaft. That's how I feel. Go ahead. Question one. If this is an elevator movie, it's only going down. It's not. There's no up to this. You open the door and all the numbers are negative. That's what's going on here. Okay. Truth. Why is truth necessary? Is it? Well, if it isn't, we can just skip this right now, but why do you think it's not? We'll give this to pastor. Good. So that way you have a little time to get your head together and actually think about life. Yes. Truth is necessary in a philosophical sense because truth is reality. So like, if something's true, it corresponds to reality. So if if something's untrue, it doesn't correspond to the nature of things, how they actually are. So it's necessary if we want to live our life in reality. We're not living some lie or some fantasy or some self delusion. We're rooting our life in how the universe actually is, how God really is under the moral law from the actual moral law giver. So really, since God is true, truth is necessary. So that was more of a philosophical answer because no one created God. He's a necessary being and he is truth. So there's nothing more necessary than truth, which is why we feel really bad when there's lies. We feel really bad when we're being lied to or deceived and we feel bad when we know we're living a lie. There's a dissonance that happens in our mind when we know that we're living in a fantasy world or when we're consciously choosing the lie over the truth, it creates a lot of torment. So I believe it's necessary in a logical sense and also in the impact it has on our life. I'm sure glad we had a bunch of laughing in the beginning of this because we just went way into the deep there. We're just now. So are you saying that some people don't like they they don't live in a truth at all, like not at all? They can't handle the truth. Oh, I've heard that. Someone quoted that to me just recently. Yeah, I believe all the time people. I mean, I know I can only speak personally is I'd like to believe certain things about myself. I'd like to believe certain things about others, even about God. And if I would deceive myself a certain way, I could line up reality to my will and I could be real comfortable, but it might not actually be how reality is. You know, people call that like an alternate reality, but I don't think that can be an alternate reality. I think it's just unreal. It's fake. Yeah, it's a matrix. Yes. Oh, no, another movie thing is going to be the movie thing. The Matrix is a good spiritual allegory. So I don't feel too bad about quoting the Matrix. That's good. So why is truth necessary? Pastor Liz in your life, at least? Oh, in my life? Well, I mean, I'm helping you. I'm throwing you a softball here because I realized that since you've had brain damage recently, it's hard for you to really concentrate on things and focus. So this is a softball question for you. Thanks. Thanks for that. I'm looking out for your life. It's the truth. Is it softball like old man softball or like those girls I'm watching on the softball finals that throw a hook curveball at 90 miles per hour from underhand? That's a different kind of a that's not soft that ball. That ball hurts when they. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It was the past. Yeah, it wasn't. Why is truth necessary? Is that the question? Sure. Okay. Well, you can answer any question you like, actually with that. Well, we'll try this one. I believe that human beings are hardwired to seek truth. I think it's actually in the makeup of who we are. I think that God put in us a requirement to look for truth. I think truth brings meaning. It brings value. It brings some sort of safety, security, stability in lives, whether that is the actual truth or a perceived truth. But I think people will adopt truths because they're looking for and it brings certainty. It brings some sort of structure, brings some sort of foundation to the life. I think that human beings actually don't function outside of believing something's true. That's a really good answer from somebody recently had a concussion, you know. I'm just like a little bit. I'm liking that somehow you extracted that out of that brain that's been damaged. I mean, that's just on a general level for things. But I mean, you're talking to scripturally, truth is freedom. Truth is what makes us free. So if we're going to live in any sort of freedom at all, then there has to be truth. So when I hear that, then I hear that if you don't have truth or don't see it as a necessity, or don't live in it as a necessity, then you're kind of searching around for some kind of stability then all the time. There's no stability if there's no truth. There's nothing to anchor yourself to. But even if you believe there's no truth, that's your truth. Right. That's, yeah. So you've chosen relativism. You've chosen something that is going to permit you to do anything, but that's the reality that you have accepted. So you can't live as if nothing's true because then you couldn't even get out of bed in the morning. Right. I didn't say that they... I'm just saying, there's no... I realize that's your reality, but there's no stability in that kind of reality because everything is moving all the time. There's... Yeah. It's kind of shaky in every which way. Absolutely. So truth actually brings stability into our lives. There's an actual truth and something that's not truth. Very good. I like that. You guys are pretty good. What do you think? About truth? Why is truth necessary? I believe that it's absolutely necessary because then there... Well, we're talking about here. There's no... People who don't either recognize truth, want truth, or think it's unnecessary. They have no stability in their life. There's no anchor to their soul. Everything is up for grabs. Everything's like in a moment by moment, you know, that whole like live for today thing, that's great. It's a great way to live, but you should have a truth in that living for today that you're living. And so because the... Like I said, and for me, and this is just the precept that I always live by about truth, is truth stands alone. Truth does not need something or someone or somebody else or a bunch of things to substantiate it or him. It stands... It stands alone. Yeah. And that's when... That's how truth really is. Truth, you know, a lot of times when people are trying to find out if something's true or a lie, not truth, true, then they bring to bear on that a bunch of evidence, right? Rather than, as we know now, we're talking about God here, he's truth. And so, but he is truth and him stands apart from everything. It doesn't need a bunch of stuff to substantiate him. He will be found out by everybody eventually, one way or the other. He might not be received by everybody, but he will be found. And so he stands separate. Yeah, that's what I think. Don't ask me any more hard questions like that. I'm the one answering, asking the hard questions, okay? So, you know, there's this... No, in the Bible, this one guy says, "What is truth?" Remember that guy? He's a pretty good guy for a Roman sort of... Yeah, Pontius Pilates. Pilates. Pilates, yes. He was a Pilates. Him and his wife. Pontius Pilates. So, to me, that's crazy. He has crucified under Pontius Pilates. You guys are nuts. We're having fun with this truth thing. I love it. So, you know, when he asks what is truth, immediately what comes to my mind is that's like just a tremendous worldly question. It's from a worldly perspective. It's wanting to identify this thing called truth instead of recognizing him. Who is standing right in front of him? Yeah, he asked the wrong question. Yeah, I mean, he's saying, Pilate is saying, "What is truth?" Because he's saying, you know, what's practical is more important than what's true. And so, it's really this idea of like, there's something more important than truth. Like, he knew Jesus was an innocent man. His wife had warned him. He deduced that through several trials. But he knew politically for expedience, he was going to have to crucify him. So, he didn't want to acknowledge, "Oh, the truth is I'm doing the wrong thing. I'm murdering an innocent man." So, he said, "What is truth?" You know, he washed the hands of it. For me, truth is what I need to do. Truth is what my necessity is. And we've all been in that situation. It's easy to just dump on Pilate, you know. How could he do that? I mean, it would be really tempting to do the same thing in his position. And there's a lot of times that we say like, "Oh, I think something's true, but it's incredibly inconvenient for me to live consistently with that." To live based on that, it'll cost me so much if I actually change, if I turn from the lifestyle I'm living that's breaking God's commandments, that's doing something against God, that's not in line with who I was created to be. If I turn from that, it's going to alienate everything I've been doing up to this point. And there's too much I've sunk too much into the outcomes and the situation and what I've chosen in the past that I can't turn from that to do what's in line with the truth. So I think, you know, that's really what he's saying. He's like, you know, some people think he's asking a philosophical question, but I mean, I think he's acting, he's asking just a practical question. What is truth? I can't think about that right now. Well, I think he's asking, like I said, a very worldly question. And unfortunately, I think if we're honest, we're pilots at times. And we ask that we put that out there just to slough off the Lord and to send him packing when we don't want to deal with our stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of things in the word that are really inconvenient. And really, you should write the convenient Bible. That would be such a good thing to do. You know, and really, and it's about, you know, right now, very counter anti culture, you know, and anti whatever is happening. And so there's a lot of questions right now. Like, is this still true now? Is this still true in our enlightened state? Right? Is this still true? I mean, that's kind of what, yeah, we're more enlightened than the light of the world. Right. Yes, a lot of questions. God didn't have always happened. There always are questions about truth, but you see it right now, especially within the church, you know, like, is this, is this actually the word of God? Is this actually true? Is it still true in 2024? Is it still true in, you know, woke America? Is it still true? Yes, that's a lot. What is true? What is it? Yes, it is a very worldly question. What is true is what I feel to be true, right? Yeah, what's your truth? It brings in a worldly attitude. It really does. And it's very subtle, right? It sounds, it can sound really smart in some ways, but it's elusive. It's, it's kind of a ducking away from him, the truth, and trying to get around truth. Right. It's crazy thing. I have a harder question. No, no, no. Does truth have to cost, or is it completely free? Yeah, see, I told you, well, there's a curveball. We'll let Liz go first, because she's, you know, she's like playing over, you know, after your answers, she just kind of says what you say. No, she doesn't. She makes it a little simpler. She says actually good teaching, you know. She says it backwards. And I don't know if that's dyslexia or her brain thing again. I don't know. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what comes to mind when you ask that is the scripture, buy the truth and sell it not. So I would say there is a cost, there's a cost to truth. And I would also say that I know in that, you know, I think you take that scripture a couple of ways. One is buy the truth and don't sell it for something else, right? Don't like exchange it, relinquish it for something, some worldly thing that is like buy the truth and sell it not. But I think also we pay a cost to understand truth, embrace revelation of truth. We experience things in our lives, there's costs that we pay that results in truth in our life. And I believe that when he says sell it not, we are supposed to actually give that freely to other people. And they don't have to pay the same price that we paid for that truth. So I'd say it's that's good like that. That's deep. Yeah, freely, you received freely, give, you know. Yeah, well, I mean, it just, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the cost of truth is your illusions. So, you know, the cost of truth is giving up what is, what is not true. You know, so like, and having it both ways too, like the cost of truth is that you have to stand on truth. You know, you could say, oh, yeah, I believe that to be true, but you're not willing to stand on it. And you haven't bought it then, like to just link with that scripture. You have to align yourself with truth and stand for it and put it on like armor, you know, and actually live in it. Or else all you've done is acknowledged the fact you haven't, you haven't come to the truth. You haven't come to the light the Bible would talk about. So, yeah, I mean, it could cost you to come to truth. It could cost you, like I said, your lifestyle, cost you your reputation, your view of yourself, others view of you, it could cost you so much. But it would bring you into reality. In some places, it costs your life. Would absolutely. Yeah, that's, that's pretty heavy when you're thinking about your physical freedom. You could be thrown in jail. Well, I think it was, he was always purposed to cause us to lose our life in that process. If we're going to receive him, there's going to be a loss of something, I think. And I think if you, like you said, if you're buying the truth, I think it cost. And it, and there's going to be a loss associated, maybe like you said, a loss of your worldly standing of some kind. It doesn't mean it always will. But since the world is at odds with the truth, there's always going to be a conflict that happens when you start buying the truth. Whenever you begin to appropriate truth into your life, it means personally, you'll have to give up some things because truth doesn't, it doesn't add up well, or match well with our lives. You know, because our lives are supposed to be changing toward the truth all the time. So there's personally, there's a cost. And then I think just generally in life relationships, there may be cost because other people may have not come to that place where they're willing to buy that truth. And so that puts them at odds with you, that puts them different from you. And different usually in our societies now, actually, pretty much every society, different really equates to conflict cost, you know, at some realm. And so for someone, and this is why what pastoralism is new Bible coming out, the convenience Bible, there's no cost, right? Everybody gets along with everyone. Matter of fact, I can see it as, you know, in the beginning, and then you have just blank spaces and you fill in what you want, you know, or buy the blank, you know, and do what you like with it. So there's, yeah, so I think there's a cost associated. It's very, it's sometimes going to be a very subtle cost, sometimes it can be an extreme cost, like you had mentioned, they cost people their lives nowadays, the truth does. And that's a, that's a serious thing to understand and to know. I think that, I don't know, I just think this concept is really interesting about the cost, but you know, it's like the parable about the person who finds the pearl, right? And they go and like sell everything and they buy, you know, like buying the field, like they buy the whole thing, like it's, and I'm all in on this. And there's, I don't know, I just think like it's, it's such a great, but it's such a great exchange. Like you don't, that person didn't feel like they were losing something. They felt like they found something, and it was worth everything. And that is the truth. Like the truth is worth losing your life for whether that means like now in our present of like giving everything to it, or if that means the ultimate, you know, sacrifice of actually losing your physical life, it is worth, it is worth that because it is him, it is him. And so, you know, I think one of the ways that we, we buy the truth is with the most significant currency we have, and that's with our time. And I think this is the place where sometimes we don't, people don't realize like you buy the truth by spending time with the truth, you know, and it's not just about go to church, stand for, you know, be moral, like don't lie, like those things like you, you buy the truth by exchanging your life, your time by spending time with truth. Yeah, you know, yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna say that too. It's a cost but not a loss. Because there's a far greater loss to the to the lie. There's a far greater cost to choosing the lie. And so I totally agree with that. Yeah, there's a game. That's for sure. I like that parable also, it always struck me because you you buy the entire field, but you're buying it for the pearl, right, you know, you're not buying it for the dirt around there. I mean, you know, obviously you're gonna have some land, you know, you'll be a landowner. But homeowner, homeowner, yes, like some other people we know. But the but but there's no that's not the purpose of that selling everything going and purchasing it. It's like at all costs, you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that one thing. And so there's a value, I believe, associated with truth that suppresses everything else. Yeah, that's that's the deal there. Right. Hmm. Okay, I have more questions here. They're going to get harder. I mean, they'll get easier when we end. But now this is a strange one. Have you heard the term speaking truth to power? I have. Yeah. What's meant by that? I'll take dare to you. You want a truth, they're there. I don't want to take it there. I dare you to do a backflip. No, sorry, I'll say it again. I'll try to. Yeah. So what's meant by speaking truth to power? To you? What does that mean? Emperor has no clothes. So what it means is, even if everybody else says something is the case, even if the most powerful person says something is the case, if it's not the case, it's not the case. So like you said, so the truth stands alone is what you were saying of like being willing to say what nobody else wants to say. It's good. It could cost you because the person could take vengeance on you. They could suppress you. They could fire you. They could throw you in jail. They could kill you depending on how much power the person has. But you are giving them the ultimate gift like we're talking about of the truth. If they want that, and I was reading Jeremiah the other day where he sends his scribe to read him a scroll, to read the king a scroll, and the king just slices it off piece by piece and throws it in the fire. You know, and that was speaking the truth to the power. And it came true, by the way, because it was true. But he didn't want it, you know, find another scroll. And he's like, the guys that brought it to the king were like, Hey, Baruch and Jeremiah, you better run away because this guy does not like the truth. You're trying to give him something. You're trying to speak truth to power, but he's going to kill you. And they actually went and they hid because they knew he was going to do that. So that was what came to my mind is being willing to say, the guy's naked over there. Does nobody else see this? I'm like, no, no, everybody here voted that he's in the most beautiful suit there could possibly be. He's the emperor. It's like, well, okay, like majority rule doesn't determine reality. But also there's a speaking of truth to power in everybody's everyday life. Like, yes, I'm sure, like the Bible says, as we pursue the truth, that we will be brought before judges and magistrates and kings and all sorts of places and have to speak the truth. I get that. But there's also powers in our lives individually, like there's people we work for. There's people we're in relationship with. There's people we're married to. There's people. I mean, in, there's, you know, hey, your children have a lot of power in your life, apparently. So they, you know what I'm saying? So there's powers in our life. And the question is, are we willing to speak truth to those things also, not back away? Because a power is something that has an influence on you. It pushes on you, and it compels you to do something a certain way. And so, just like I said, yes, biblically, we can go to those. Those are great examples, right? Of, you know, people who looked at power, you know, like we were just talking earlier, Jesus looking at the guy who had power over his life and saying, you don't have power over my life. That's the truth. You know, and so, and that's pretty shocking. And maybe, maybe, we would be brave enough to do that in that situation. I don't know. I hope we are, but I don't know. And who knows where the way things go, we may get to that place in our culture sometime soon, actually. But the reality, if there's another kind of speaking truth to power that actually happens in our everyday life. So what does that mean to you? Well, is that a, what's the, what's the history of that? Is that like a 60s like, the history of speaking truth or power? Like the power. Yeah. Oh, power to the people? No. Get the man that talks to the man. Where that? No, I think that there is a, I actually believe now I'm going to go off on the deep end for you here, but I actually believe there's a prophetic expression, especially for mantle prophets that will speak truth to powers that be both natural powers, people, and also spiritual powers. But that's a whole mother. And now we went off a hold. Well, that's, yeah, I guess originally when it first came to my mind. Yeah. Well, get it and talk about that. Because you're good at this stuff. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, we can't forget that there are powers and principalities that have set up camp on the earth and dominion would like to dominate. And they must hear the voice of truth actually from the Lord prophetically, because we're not just speaking to people. Right. And so there must be the issuance of truth and the intentions of God and the enforcement of the word of God, the enforcing of the finished work of Christ in the earth. So that is, I guess, it's a very real thing. It's not, it's not a fairytale, spooky thing. It's actually very real. They listen. And so a lot does you have to understand. And I believe the spirits of people listen, even when their souls don't sometimes, which is another interesting thing. But yeah, exactly. I know these are kind of weird things, but yeah. Some people will be able to hear this and discern what we're talking about. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. I think also when you were talking about powers, like I think probably the most important power or influence in my life that I need to speak truth to is my own self, like my own soul. Like speaking, like speaking the truth, like you will, you will come into agreement, you will like reminding and dealing with the other things that come in, right? Like we take all every thought captive, like there's a speaking of truth, because there's so many influential voices. I think it has to start for me, it has to start here. That's very good, actually. I was hoping we'd get there also because, you know, like not Pastor David, but King David, which he's sort of a king over there. But King David, you know, he spoke to his own, it's prideful too. He spoke to his own soul. Why are you cast down? Right. You know, trust in God. You know, so there's that speaking truth to the power in our hearts by the way, when you said that, it reminded me, you know, if your heart condemns you, God is greater than your heart. So our heart has a power associated with it to condemn us. I mean, that's a, that's that's a pretty brutal thing. We actually started thinking about that. Right. And that means that our spirit has the power to speak to that. It must. It must, actually. And that's not just a rationalizing it with your soul and your mind and all that. That's actually speaking. And that's why I mentioned earlier, there's a prophetic component to this actually speaking prophetically to your soul, to your heart. Why are you cast down? Trust in God. He's the hope of my life. When my, you know, when everything seems like it's a mess, God's greater. Yeah. It's an awesome thing. Who is truth? Pastor David? His name is Jesus. Oh, yeah. See, I gave him this off. You get the heart. You get the heart. Well, it's about this guy. I mean, God is truth, right? And Jesus is the, the expression of the truth. He said, I am the way, the truth and the life. So Jesus is the, the true representation of reality. Yes, there are three persons in God. Our host holding up three, three fingers. Yeah, Jesus, he shows us every, what it means to walk in truth. He shows us how truth took on flesh. And he, he said, you know, to, to Pilates to, to, to onto his pilot. He said, for this reason, I came into the world to bear witness to the truth. And he is truth. So he bore witness to the nature of the Father. He bore witness to the truth about God and to how to live in that truth. And his best friend, John, his epistles first through third, John are all about this idea of walk in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. Okay. So this idea of walking in truth and living in truth is what it means to follow Jesus. Who is the truth? So if we're not a follower of, of Christ, we're not going to be a follower of truth. You could say like, Oh, I'm seeking scientific truth and I'm seeking philosophical truth, but you're not really a follower of truth unless you're a follower of him, which is, which is a very Christian statement to me. You know, it's like, it's the call to faith. It's the call just past skepticism. And oh, I'm looking for the truth. And I won't commit to any truth. Right. Because I'm a truth, truth seeker. Right. And I lived in that place for a while. Right. So I'm like, let me, let me figure it all out. Then I'll know the truth, then I'll commit to it. But he says, look, leave your nuts and follow. And you're going to learn what it is to walk in truth. So I think that is important. Yeah. Yes. You don't have anything, do you? That was enough for you. That's good. I like that a lot, actually. Jesus is good. I think a lot of times people try to, Jesus makes it very simple for us. Yeah. That's what I love about him. Yes. It is not that hard. It's hard, but he's like, follow me. Right. That's a pretty simple truth, actually. Like I said, it doesn't need a lot. He doesn't need a lot of other stuff. Like when people are, I think these are, most of the time, those are either just excuses or people are just confused because they have no truth. They have all this relativism going on. But the fact is, is that truth, like I said earlier, it does stand alone. And he's saying, hey, come to me. Don't, you know, so yes, who is truth? He is truth. And the other things that people say they're searching for, what they're doing is they're avoiding the truth where all truth actually issues from nothing. So there's no truth. There's no truth that comes from anywhere, except from him. That's a weird statement, huh? Most people would be like, no, that's not, yeah, that's not true. But this leads into my next question. Is everything that's true, the truth? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Why? Why? Because truth is eternal and things that are true, maybe temporary, but true, truth is eternal. Or past. Yeah, I'm yeah, past or temporary or deceit. It's false. It's a false reality. It's a false identity. The truth is what we see in Christ and what we are created to be in him. That is actually the truth. So anything aside from that, it may be true. Okay. But it doesn't make it the truth. Right. But it doesn't make it a truth. The truth. The truth. Yeah. The truth. That's what the devil does. I mean, what he accuses you about is true. You know, like he tells you you did something. It's true. You know, and people are like, oh, the devil's lying about you. The devil's lying. And he says all this about you. I'm like, well, it's not. It's a lie in the sense that it's not the truth of who I am. It's not how God sees me in a global sense and my total identity. But it's true. It would have no power if he was like, yeah, you know, you murdered 20 people. I didn't do that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't care about that. You know, I wouldn't care about it. So I mean, obviously, like he's the prosecutor, the enemy and he's he's saying true stuff, but it's not in context. And so that's probably the big one of the biggest enemies of the truth is a lack of context and just cherry picking something. This is how we mess up the Bible. Oh, look at this verse. I'm going to build a doctrine off this, you know, not in context. Another just Bible point is the book of Ecclesiastes. It's a whole book full of stuff that's true from a certain perspective. If there's only one life, then everything in Ecclesiastes is true. You know, if it's only under the sun that we're looking at, we're only looking at this present life, well, then you'd have to say what he said in that book that all is vanity, all is emptiness. Nothing's worth anything might as well give up, right? There's nothing that can bring any joy to you. But he ends the book with truth. And he says, at the end of the matter, we understand, fear God and keep his commandments for this is the whole chief end of man. This is why you're created. Right. So he brings it to truth at the end. Right. But if you didn't put it in context, you'd be quoting Ecclesiastes like, don't be too good and don't be too bad. Just find a middle ground and people do that stuff. They bring it out of context. So well, I think that speaks to something that I'm thinking about when I ask these questions, and that is people the way they approach the Bible, they think everything in the Bible is truth. Right. I believe it's all true. But I don't believe it's all truth. Right. And you have to discern between what's true and what's truth. All right. So just because, you know, somebody went and killed somebody or somebody went and committed adultery or somebody went and robbed somebody or somebody lied to somebody, that's true. That doesn't make it the truth. That's not a principle that we, of him, that we live by, that's something else. That's just a true statement. And I believe a lot of people who aren't believers have a hard time with the Bible because they go, look at all that stuff in there. It's like, yeah, it's true. It's accurate. It's accurate. Exactly. But it's just not him, the truth. He's not okay with all, you know, he didn't want that all to happen just the way it happened. I mean, he may have known it was going to happen, but he didn't want it to happen like that. People made choices and that's true. Yeah. What do you think? Any thoughts on that? Like, no thoughts coming out of it. I know. Did your mind just shut off? Have you tried getting the water out of your ears? You Liz wants to make sure what she says is true, or we just talk. We just hope it works out. We throw it against the wall. Okay. What happens when Christianity is practiced without truth? Yikes. Yikes happens. Never a woman spoke like that. You can't practice Christianity without truth. It's not Christianity. We have to ask the brain dead one. Okay. Are you asking like when people like call themselves Christians and don't live by the truth? It's called church. It's called me and you. I mean, listen, we are doing our best in some areas and probably not in other areas. And we are, I think in some places, we're like, yes, I live by the truth. In other places, we're like, well, it's pretty close enough. It's close enough. If we're honest, it's better three degrees off. Yeah. I mean, okay, I think there's a big difference between like, I just flat out reject that. I don't believe that and I'm not going to live by it. Or I do believe it's true. I believe it's the truth. And I am depending on the grace of God to help me bring myself into subjection to the truth. And I'm walking that out imperfectly, but I do believe it's true. And I do believe that I can and will be transformed by the grace of God into the image of the truth. Those are very different things. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, there's that category distinction between the hypocrites that Jesus is talking about. I mean, he's always like scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites, hypocrites. You know, he says hypocrites, I think 21 times or something in the New Testament, maybe it's less. But it's somebody that knows they're putting on a false face. And they know that they're what they're doing is wrong, but they, you know, they just do it anyway. That's a big difference between that and somebody that's that's really setting their path towards God and trying to follow the truth and is working out their humanity and is being sanctified and developed into the image of God. So yeah, a lot of people say, you know, the church is full of fakes. There's a lot of fake people. You know, but I mean, it doesn't mean you're a fake just because you're not always consistent. Right. You know, so yeah, we're all we're all growing into the likeness of God. We're not quite there yet. You know, but there, I mean, there are people that are that Jesus calls false teachers that are just trying to be selfish and make money or to see if people are gain a following. And I mean, that really, really hurts the cause of Christ when that happens. So that's serious. Just a few thoughts that came to mind when you were saying that, I immediately thought of that, you know, this guy in Revelation, who talks about, I'd rather you be hot or cold, but not that lukewarm, not that mixture. Because I think what happens is, since we are his representatives here in the earth, that's, that's what he's stuck with now, because he created it that way. Since we're his representatives here in the earth, he's relying on us to present to manifest truth. When we do lukewarm, people have a hard time. They don't know is that they start to make assumptions that either things that were true, but not truth, that that's truth, since you're a representative of truth. And then they start to get confused. Like, so that's God, like that's, that's how God, that's how truth behaves. That's how truth is. That's how that's how truth operates. You know, and so there's a, there's a, it's pretty costly, I believe, to Christianity when you have someone as, you know, lukewarm, who brings some truth and some not. And Jesus is like, I'd rather you just be cold. I believe he says that just because then people can make a distinction like, yeah, that guy's he's not trying to represent Jesus at all. He's just, he's, that's not him. And then people who are hot, they are trying to represent Jesus. And like you both said, they're also working through their stuff. And people get that. People and God gets that too. He doesn't, he doesn't expect us to be perfect truth. He expects us to bring truth and work through our true, what the parts we're working through. He's okay with that. But when we bring in the mixture, that's an issue. Well, I think even in the parts we're working through, we're still bringing in truth to it because there's a, there's a recognition of there is an absolute standard that's perfect and beautiful and lovely. And my, my life is not that right. So there's a, there's a truth in that statement of it's not, I'm not saying it's okay. I'm not making excuses. I'm not allowing myself to go into deception that I am perfect in everything I do. Like I'm, I recognize that there is the truth and I'm walking closer to him. And even in them, even in those weaknesses and failings and all of that, there's grace and there's, so I think in every aspect, even in our imperfection, right now, there's truth is always speaking or should be always speaking where it's like, I don't, this is like, I don't, I'm not trying to pretend. I'm not trying to be anything, put on anything, impress anyone. This is my life. There's my weaknesses. Here's my flaws. It's open. And it's, I, I want it to be examined and seen and known for what it is because in that the truth can speak unhindered, even in our failings. I like that. And also it reminds me that what people see then, even when you're not a perfect representative of the truth, they see someone that's in relationship or trying to be in close relationship with the truth. And what that speaks to me, and you know, out of John eight, you know, something you mentioned earlier, you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. So there's this knowing him. That's that intimacy. That's that coming into relationship with him. And that truth will make not just us free, but I think people around us that knowing him component, that relational component is true. It's not just true. It is truth. They see, oh, that's how, that's how Christians walk with their God, right? Even in their imperfection. And they don't bring, they don't bring a lie to that truth. They just, they, here it is. It's, I'm bringing, I'm open. I'm transparent. This is the way it really is. And that I'm still in a work in progress. And I'm working through the, I believe helped my unbelief. You know, there's a, there's a process that we're in. It's a great process. I'm really glad God helps us with this, because he gives us someone called the spirit of truth. And he lives in us. And he will search us and reveal to us every anxious thought and every grievous way. He'll convict us. He'll bear witness to the truth. He'll lead us into all truth. He'll declare the things of Christ to us progressively as we can bear them. He's so good at teaching us. And I just want to encourage anybody listening that to ask for help from God. Oh, yeah. Like that's just a holy spirit. I need you so much. And, you know, he's just so precious to us. We cherish his ministry because he wants us to not live a lie. He wants us to live in a cord with God and his purposes for us. And he doesn't want us to be deceived in any way. You know, and you can even pray like, Holy Spirit, show me where I'm being deceived or show me where I'm suppressing the truth. Like, what do I not want to see that I need to see? And he'll go, oh, this. All right, thanks. Thank you. Well, you know, I like what you said. I hope it just didn't. Someone needs to hear it that Holy Spirit, he is the one that leads you to the truth. And then he leads you into the truth, into all truth, him. And so he's that he's in the whole process. And so you cannot just exclude him and hope that you're going to get by and get to know the truth. That's not going to happen without him. Does truth always have consequences? Yes. Okay, that's a good answer. Easy answer. The truth always requires choice. Always requires choice. Oh, yeah, I like that. Every choice has a consequence. When you encounter truth, you either have to do what it says in Romans 1. suppress it when you're like, Oh, that's true. Oh, that's wrong. Nope. No, let's not be so intense about that. I mean, I think that's a temptation that like, I know that part of the Bible is true, but that would be pretty intense if I was going to actually do that. And just sort of like, suppress it. Well, also we've evolved since then, you got to suppress it, you know, or you got to be like, let me allow that to marinate and try to do that. So you actually answered that. You actually answered my follow up question in that because I was going to ask what kind of, you know, consequences does truth provoke? What does it bring? And so it sounds like it does bring you to it brings you to the table and you have to choose. It brings you to the altar. Oh, that's really where, at least for me, every time you know, Maggie was here now. She'd be doing this. Here's life and here's death. Choose. Yeah. And that will either soften you or harden you. And the more times that you deny the truth, the more times that you turn away from it, the harder it is for you to ever receive it again. You know, it has a huge consequence. Um, to willingly turn away. And it's called unbelief. That's not called lack of faith or doubt or, um, I'm not sure or anything like that. It's called unbelief. You know, I don't want that. It's not that. Oh, that's not true. I don't want that to be true. That's really serious. You know, so. Well, I think I would like to end now. I have other weird questions for you, but I don't think they're going to work out today. But as we end, um, I believe that we should be giving a, uh, challenge to people who might have made it to this far somehow. If they made it this far, if they made it this far, they definitely need Jesus. I'm sorry. They, they didn't make it this far. Is that what you're telling me? But, uh, but, but seriously, the, you know, there's people that, um, they need to make a choice. And it, it does need to be a, it is a choice between him, truth and not. And so, uh, pastor David, do you want to, you want to lead us out with something for people who may be in that, uh, decision making process? Um, Yeah. Um, I think you, we need to think how do we live in such a way that we make the most of what God has given us. And you're not going to regret your choice to follow Jesus, to just completely trust him, to say, I'm not going to hold on to my life and how I've idealized it. Um, in the areas that it's not in line with God, with his word, what he's calling me to do. And, um, yeah, that's the challenge to forsake bitterness, hatred, sin, um, pride, whatever it might be. Um, and that would require you perhaps coming and walking in the light and confessing to somebody the things that you have done or that you've allowed to have a foothold in your life. This is a practical way, uh, to embrace truth is through the discipline of confession. And so, you know, confess to God and he's faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all in righteousness and confess to a brother or sister in Christ that you may be healed according to the word of God. Um, as long as, as long as your ways of, you know, that haven't been working out, maybe it's a way that seemed right to you, it seems right to the world, but it's, it's end is death. And I would just encourage you to open up your heart to a pastor or leader or brother or sister in Christ or if you're not a Christian, even a Christian, you know, just open up your heart to them and allow them to hear you out and, um, and help you and to walk with you. Nobody should walk alone. Even those truth can stand alone. It usually will not choose to walk alone. You want others that share the same passion for Christ and for his way. Um, and so I would encourage no secrets that are no dark secrets in your life, no dark secrets in your life, no areas where you know what you should do, but you're just kind of conveniently saying, no, no, no, it's not the time. I'm not going to, I'm not going to deal with it. Let ask the Holy Spirit for help. You might have said, Oh, I can't deal with this. It's too hard. It's going to cost too much. Uh, but ask the Holy Spirit to help you and then ask a brother or sister in Christ to help you. And you can bring your life in line with the gospel. And that's leading somewhere really good. The other way was leading towards death and destruction, but the way of truth, it says the path of a righteous man grows brighter and brighter until the full light of day. That's the way of hope. And it's a real hard turn sometimes, but it leads to life and abundance. Amen. Well, all I can say is we bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus. Uh, and Father, I pray that you would just, um, be with those that are listening right now, Lord, and, um, that need to be brought into a closer relationship with him with the truth. I pray that you would, uh, Father bless them right where they're at right now with your presence, with your strength father, father with your truth. That's a security and an anchor to their souls. So in Jesus name, just, uh, anoint them right where they're at and draw them to yourself. In the name of Jesus, we pray and we bless you. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to subscribe to get the latest episode. And for more information, go to spiritschooladministered.com.