The Insurgents
Ep. 293: Clooney Has Fallen ft. Kate Willett
(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Jordan, hello. - Hello, Rob. (upbeat music) - How's it going? What's up? - What are you up to? - What's going on? - It's going well. - Just podcasting. - Just loving the state of our country. - Yeah. - My country. - I'm very happy with the state of things. The elections fun, exciting. Every moment we're getting something new. It's the horse race politics that I love so much. - Yeah, it's your country and I'm just stuck here in the northern resource colony of your country. - You're in our attic. - Yeah. - Yeah, exactly. I didn't even get to vote. I didn't even get to participate in any of this stuff. This is all I get. And even sometimes I don't even get that. Sometimes people are like, no, you don't even get that. Don't talk about it. That's very funny actually to me. The whole like American thing of like, oh, you don't live here. It's like, it's that scene from the naked gun where there's the fireworks factory exploding and Leslie Nielsen is standing in front of it. Nothing to see here folks move along. It's like, it's only the president of the United States and he's like 8,000 years old and barely able to talk or communicate to anybody. His crack head son is the de facto chief of staff now basically like encouraging him to stick around. Nothing, there's nothing wrong with that, you know? Hunter, he's made mistakes, you know, he's all right. But you know, this seems like a major story that probably people from around the world are fairly interested in, but it's like, no, no one can talk about this except us. My, my hunter theory. So I've seen people turn on him who were sympathetic to him. Yes, because as you say, it was reported Hunter and Jill Biden are two of the main people in his ear insisting that he keep running. My theory is that Hunter isn't even looking at the polls. He's not even worried about the risk of a second Trump presidency. He just saw that Supreme Court decision, which basically legalized any presidential activity and granted immunity for criminal prosecution and he thought, oh yeah, this is my ticket, baby. If he's in Biden's ear and he's really calling the shots and now corruption and bribery is legal, oh, it's go time, Hunter is going to be cranked up to 11. That's why that's my, that's my hunter theory. No, I think that makes sense. Yeah, and it's, it's unlike cause he's got his own legal, legal issues coming down the pike as well. So maybe it's, it's less likely that the FBI are going to come slap the cuffs on him. If he's, if he's hanging in the Oval Office all day, daddy need anything, you need a soda or water. I don't have anywhere to be. I don't have anywhere to go. Just you can see if he just stays there. It's like the government accountability office needs to decorate the halls of their office building with my art, a million dollars a piece. Dad, you have to do this. Just sign here. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah, no, so it's, as you alluded to, it's a interesting state of affairs over there in the good old US of A and we're talking about this story again. This is the, it's a pretty big story. It's kind of hard to focus on anything else at the moment. But we brought it none other than Kate Willett today to talk to us about this. Who's really fantastic and it was great to talk to her about this whole situation and get her take on it. Really enjoyed speaking with her. Very funny person as we talked about in the chat. Didn't really get into a lot of jokes today, but definitely someone that if you, if you want to see or tell jokes, I encourage people to do that because she's very good. Yeah, we, it's almost a disservice to Kate because Kate is somebody who's very funny for the conversation itself was more serious. So we tease it at the front of the conversation and of course at the end in the, in the plugs, but do check out her, her comedy special. It's on Amazon. Please do that for her. Yes. And for us, what you should also do is subscribe to this podcast because then you could get access to all the great insurgents bonus content from the past weeks and months, including the episode we recorded earlier this week, which was just Jordan and I. We talked, I'd been a bit on vacation. We hadn't really touched base since the debate happened. So we were able to kind of like get into a little bit of the narratives that have been taking shape. Since then, talking about the kind of like weird conspiracy angles that a lot of these hardcore Biden bros have kind of latched onto to explain this phenomenon of this, this sort of rebellion that we're seeing between like, you know, important people in the Democratic party, both like politicians and celebrities, people in the media, that kind of stuff. Also a good conversation. I encourage people to check that out as well. Once again, you can subscribe to the podcast at insertuspod.com to get access to that. And we're also doing videos. The link to our channel, our YouTube channel is in the show notes. Please, if you can, throw us a subscribe on YouTube. It's free. And we're doing videos in addition to podcast clips. So if you can check us out on YouTube, it would be greatly appreciated. - Yeah, and on that conspiracy angle, before we get to Kate here, but on that conspiracy angle, this is the kind of funny aspect of this to me. For people that are like, they're accusing, you know, CNN of being part of some kind of vast nefarious conspiracy to suggest that Biden is really old and incoherent. There's all the people that are like analyzing the audio tracks and then the lighting and thinking somehow that like, there's this, rather than just looking at, you know, the information available to them and they're with their own eyes and ears about Biden's condition, latching on to anything else to kind of like explain away the way that this like the media and some of these prominent people in the party have kind of turned on Biden here. But it's interesting to be to talk about because it's like with a lot of conspiracies, like we'll instantly fall apart the moment, you just ask why, what is the reason? And if you can't really come up with a coherent answer to that question, like maybe you should reevaluate some of these conspiracies. But it's in the light of this like George Clooney op-ed today that we talked about with Kate where all these accusations are flowing around, you know, to George Clooney now or to John Stewart or Stephen King or Rob Reiner or all these people that are like Biden's really old. I don't think he can do it. I think we're going to lose. We got to do something else. But it's like, that's what I don't understand. Like what is the purpose? What is the purpose of like this coup against Biden right now? What is the reason behind it? You know, I feel like a lot of these people, they're like the most supportive, like they're democratic party partisans. They want Democrats to win. They want Trump to lose. It would seem to me that they would much rather not have to replace the nominee a few months before the election, you know? The very fact that these people are doing that should indicate that there's actually a serious problem that these people are starting to be honest with themselves and each other about. I like that's what I don't understand that these like these people that have really latched on to this like idea that there's nothing wrong with Joe Biden. He's totally fine. Everything that's happening is there's some kind of weird conspiracy to explain all these actions. I don't really understand what these people think is happening, you know, like what is the reason? Why is George Clooney now three months before the election writing op-eds in the New York Times asking that Biden stepped down other than the fact that he clearly sees the condition binds in. They're worried about losing. That's what's going on. But like why, you know, why? Why would they be doing it otherwise? What are these people thinking? - It's so simple, Rob. Putin has compromised George Clooney. - Oh no. - So, yeah. - He's acting in accordance with the instructions. - Sure. - The Vladimir Putin. - The puppet master. - Yeah. CNN, the New York Times, George Clooney, Stephen King, Rob Reiner. They're all compromised. - Yeah, they're all compromised. - What time is it in Moscow, sir? Mr. Clooney, sir, right now? Yeah, I think that must be it. I don't know, I just, I really just don't get, like it's just that, it's like that meme, the mental gymnastics meme. Like just look at Biden, he's super old. It's been years of this. He can barely talk anymore. That's the explanation. And otherwise you're doing this, you're doing these backflips and these contorting yourself into these weird pretzels, trying to come to some like conclusion rather than just like believing, you know, your own, your own lion eyes, you know? It's not, it's really not that complicated. But, you know, I guess for these people, they can't quite seem to wrap their minds around this. This really difficult to understand concept that Joe Biden is just not able to really do it anymore. And that the fact that like the version of Biden that everyone saw during that debate matches up pretty perfectly with the reports that have been, you know, ongoing now for multiple years about the state that he's in for increasingly longer spans every day. I mean, that's the easiest explanation here, but, you know? Well, should we get to our conversation with Kate? Let's do it. It was a really good one. And Kate, well, it's gonna be joining the program right after this. (upbeat music) And now we're joined by Kate Willett, who's a comedian, who's a new special out on Amazon. Check it out. Kate, thank you so much for joining us. How are you? I'm good, how are you guys? I mean, it's a wild and wild and crazy time, but I'm personally good. Yeah, good. Yeah, I'm doing fine. I'm in Berkeley, and this is an interesting place to visit because it's one of the most like stereotypical liberal areas in the whole country. And we can get into this, but like multiple randos that I have met out here have told me that they plan on voting for Trump, which I never thought I would see in Berkeley, California. So I don't think it's, I don't know, it doesn't seem like it's going that well. Yeah, I've got a neighbor who is a, just my other neighbor describes him as the Cholo mechanic. And that is like a pretty accurate way to describe him. And he is like all in on Trump while he's working on Carter's outside, you can hear him blasting Trump's speeches. And that cadre of like MAGA musicians, like he's really into that Fogiato blow that like MAGA rapper plays that a lot. And I just like, wow, purely anecdotal, but it does seem like from what we're hearing and certainly what we're seeing in the polling, Trump is making gains with a lot of people that would have seemed unthinkable to be Trump supporters for eight years ago. It really seems like it. I mean, you know, I just saw this clip of, you know, Josh Johnson on The Daily Show, which has been like, I think more kind of like, I don't know, just they're, they're definitely not like the standard blue MAGA stuff. Like they've been willing to criticize Democrats and stuff. And Josh Johnson did a panel with six black voters and half were voting for Trump. And it's like, I don't know if it's going to shake down that they're going to be able to do the like disenfranchised, rural white guy thing this time, if he wins. Cause it seems like the base of support, may have gotten larger and more diverse, even if that doesn't seem like it should be true. - Well, it's funny you mentioned The Daily Show as well because it's like, not only is it not blue MAGA, but the blue MAGA people think John Stewart is like a tanky Trump supporter now pretty much because he's dared to call into question this whole thing. And like has asked some questions about, you know, Joe Biden's fitness to even be able to do this. And people are like, this man is dead to me now. Oh my goodness. - It's so funny. They would have to receive in Colbert too. And obviously George Clooney, which I know he played on talking about women. They're kind of like getting down into this, like, you know, sort of, it has like murder suicide codes. - Yeah. Like it's like, it's kind of like, late stage Jim Jones vibes. And I'm like, all of this for a tax credit, you know, like it's just a weird, it's a very weird guy to become cultishly obsessed with, you know. - I was thinking earlier today, I saw this compilation of late night hosts mocking Biden over the past few days. And of course you can throw in John Stewart's monologue on Monday about that. But to the extent the liberal media is supportive of a Democratic president, it usually is just deference and reverence. I mean, there are, of course, moments where they are critical of a Democratic president, but it's usually when there's a scandal. But the quick heel turn, especially from someone like Colbert who was part of that colossal fundraiser for Biden in, I think New York a couple months ago was poised to raise like potentially hundreds of millions of dollars. Like the biggest single fundraiser in one night in US history as it was billed, just throwing him under the bus. I'm sure he will ultimately support him if he is the nominee, but it is interesting to see how open they are with criticism on this issue. In some circumstances, if there is an inconvenient truth for Democrats and liberals, they will typically avoid it. But I do think this signifies just how serious and real this issue is when most, like you're saying, blue maga standard liberals are unwilling to acknowledge that truth. - I mean, you know, it's like, to me, it's tempting to say liberals 'cause liberals are annoying a lot of the time. But I actually think there's just as many liberals that want him to step down as there are liberals who don't. Like it's actually-- - There are weird coalitions forming right now. - Yeah, it's kind of non-ideological. Like there's a certain percentage of people who have kind of a cult-like devotion to Joe Biden, or they believe like their philosophy in politics is that they believe that they can call for unity and bully everyone into getting in line for Joe Biden. A lot of Hillary dead enders in there. But it's a lot of the Hillary dead enders. But there's, I think people who want to be Trump and believe that polls are real, you know, which is, I think, kind of a lot of people, but definitely the more kind of data inclined type of people are like, oh shit, this is an absolute disaster that we were headed for. Like, you know, states and play like New Hampshire and Minnesota that like seem like they were just, you know, solidly on lock for Biden or now, you know, probably still gonna go Democrat, but like it's, people are engaging with like how bad the data truly is. And also, I think that, you know, people who's kind of philosophy of winning is thinking, you know, they don't necessarily believe that you can just yell at people to get in line and support someone. Those people have kind of broken off liberal or not. - Yeah, the other day I was seeing a post about the idea of Biden stepping down for, and Kamala taking Biden's place. From one of these accounts, I think it was, I think it was the called centrist madness, which is an account that I see often that I'm like 99.9% of the time. I'm just like, what an awful take. I can't stand this person terrible. And I was reading this tweet and I was like, I agree with, with centrist madness here right now. I don't know, I don't know what's going on right now. This is just bizarre. - Oh yeah, I've been earnestly retweeting Nate Silver. I'm like, hell yeah, King, go off. - Matt Iglesias, yeah. - Yeah, I'm just like, well, and it makes sense too, because I mean, those guys, those kind of Nate Silver, especially Matt Iglesias type of guys, like their philosophy of politics is, you know, like with Matt in particular, it's like we have to do what's popular, you know, the populism shit and also kind of utilitarian. And like if, you know, you're sort of like a low, even a kind of low empathy, you know, sort of like hyper-utilitarian, data-driven view, there's one choice here, which is dump that guy, you know? Like, I don't think that, like to me, a lot of people that want to stick with Biden, there is at least some element of like personal, emotional loyalty and like, stand them going on there. I don't wanna say that, it's true for everybody. Or, you know, people who, to be like super fair, you know, just think that, you know, like, there would just be like, you know, madness and chaos if they tried to, you know, replace Joe Biden that would be even worse. And they basically have privately conceded in their minds that Democrats are gonna lose no matter what. But I don't know, I would say that like, most people who are really serious about like beating Trump seem to be at least open to the idea that it might be good to replace Joe Biden and just get someone in there who could beat Trump. - Yeah, on the polling and lack of an ideological consistency element, you go have an economist released a poll today and they asked, point blank, should Biden step aside as the Democratic nominee. Black voters, 49% said yes, 34% said no. So with all of these, there's uncertainties or not, you know, not sure. Hispanic voters, yes, 56% younger voters, yes, 58%. Independence, yes, 60%. And across all demographics, the majority or almost the majority, in the case of black voters, it was at 49% believe Biden should step aside. Like, these are people who don't have a firm commitment or define their political engagement as an affiliate, as affiliated with the Democratic party. So of course, it's easier for them to just see what we saw on the debate stage on top of this well-documented pattern that we've been seeing for years and was raised as a concern in 2019 on the debate stage by Julian Castro. It's easy for people who don't have this firm commitment to the party or to the candidate to say, yeah, he should, because it's obvious. It's so obvious. - Yeah, that's like, I think it is, you know, it is what you're saying. It's kind of like you have to be really, really buy in to interpret Joe Biden's debate performance or even just like a lot of the other things that he's done in a generous way. And it's like, if you're kind of even slightly open to the idea of not liking him, whether it's because you're a leftist or you're an independent or something, or even just, I don't know, even just somebody who mainly prioritizes beating Trump, you're like, oh, yeah, shit, this is like a pretty bad disaster, you know? 'Cause it's, I mean, I keep saying this phrase, we all saw what we saw, you know? And it's like more information has come out since then, like about how he's only, you know, really reliably able to engage from like 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. each day. That was an Axios and, you know, he told, I think, I don't remember who he told, but it was in the New York Times that, you know, he needs to stop scheduling events after 8 p.m. And, you know, it's just like-- - The governors, he told the governors that. - Yeah, the governors, yeah. I mean, if you're open to hating him or criticizing him at all, or just even you're really scared of Trump, it's like, okay, this isn't too good. You know, I mean, I personally, I'll be real, I hate Joe Biden, like I hate him. Like he's one of, he is a historical level villain to me after what I've been witnessing from Gaza for the past nine to 10 months. But, you know, it's like, I'd love to see him go down for that, but since he's not gonna go down for that, I think, you know, I'm glad it's being reconsidered for something because I've been watching his numbers, in addition to morally, I've been watching his numbers drop. I've, you know, obviously Arab American voters are incredibly disgusted with him. Young voters are incredibly disgusted with him. I think that a lot of Black voters are, you know, really upset by what's happening in Gaza. And it's like, you know, I don't know how many people, this is like their ultimate top issue, but I personally believe it's to be affecting things far more than it seems like, you know, the polls aren't necessarily reflecting. Like it just kind of influences like the whole way that people perceive him psychologically, whether he's like good and competent and decent. And so he's just like alienated these constituencies that were really critical to pushing him over the line in a very close election in 2020. And his theory of the case was like, well, who cares that these people left? I can make it up with Nikki Haley voters, moderate Republicans. But to somebody who has already been comfortable with voting Republicans, somebody who's already supported an anti-abortion candidate, somebody who, you know, has maybe voted for George W. Bush in the past. Like those are the exact people that are gonna say, if this guy's brain doesn't work, then no, you know? Like, I might as well just go vote for Trump again, you know? - Yeah, well, they're still trying to promote this idea that there's this huge difference between Trump and the rest of the conservative movement, which there's never been a whole lot of evidence that there is a difference. - No, I mean, the Project 2025 stuff that they're hammering home, I mean, like I've read it. I think it's really scary, you know? And I believe that it's very likely that Trump implements most of it, but here at the foundation always releases a plan for what Republicans should do. Like, you know, Trump is not separate from the conservative establishment at this point, as you were saying. - But they can't even do that right though. They can't even do the Project 2025 pushback rights. Of course, Biden doesn't even bring it up during the debate because he can't. - Yeah, he said it was wrong. - Yeah, physically incapable, right? - He's just talking about like immigrants murdering innocent young women and stuff. - Yeah, and this push, everyone's just, they're doing this kind of copy pasta approach. Google Project 2025. Okay, so I did. And do you know what comes up? The fucking Heritage Foundation's website because the Democrats didn't think, oh, maybe we should buy ad space for that fucking search term on Google with a page showing why it's dangerous. Oh yeah, go to this page and read a 900 page document and see it for yourself. Like, who's gonna fucking do that? Then if you scroll down, you'll see mainstream corporate news summaries of it, but they're going to be both sides approaches to it. And they're also going to include this obviously bullshit caveat from Trump where he, quote, distanced himself from it. He doesn't approve of it. Despite his own campaign staff and former White House staff, writing it, being in the videos, they just couldn't even think through this one strategy that did seem to catch on a little bit. It's ridiculous. - Yeah, I mean, it's also like, people have lived through Biden now and they've also lived through Trump. And the case that the Democrats are making this time to people who are double haters, I think that they're calling it. Like, yeah, you know, you may think that you got through Trump last time, but it's going to be so much worse this time. And that's maybe true. I mean, like, I totally believe that if he is able to replace the entire civil service or even a lot of it with MAGA loyalists and has a conservative majority, Supreme Court, and is able to, you know, continue to stack the federal judiciary with, you know, insane conservative judges, yeah, I completely think it could be worse. But the reasons that it is going to be worse, I think you have to be fairly politically engaged to think about, you know, or just to know about why that might be, like, you know, I'm not sure that like to the average person who's, you know, maybe just, you know, busy with other shit and it's not like, you know, looking at Twitter all day. Like, I think, you know, it's like the way that they're going to assess it is what their experience was of Trump last time, you know. - Yeah, and so, okay, so first of all, I think you've gotten into this stuff earlier than we were planning on doing it, but we might as well just like get into it here. 'Cause going back to what you were saying a couple of minutes ago, Jordan talking about this fundraiser that George Clooney was there, Colbert was there, they raised all this money. Of course, what we're talking about is this George Clooney op-ed that dropped in the New York Times today, which people were freaking out about, which is pretty brutal. Like, it's pretty uncompromising in his stance here that Biden should step down. I mean, a few of the things that he said, you know, the man that I saw at this fundraiser was the man that we all saw at the debate, you know, he's saying, we cannot win in November with Joe Biden and we're gonna lose the House, we're gonna lose the Senate, we're gonna lose if this is what we, if we just tell people that they didn't see what they saw. That's not an actual strategy. So people are predictably, like, freaking out about that. It does feel in another, like, in a sense that this dam is like continuing to break and it's really impossible to imagine how Biden is gonna hold on. And if they're planning on just white knuckling it through November, it seems completely insane to me considering this revolt that they're facing in both the media and their donor class and their supporters. I do also think it's kind of like a somewhat significant story that Clooney's saying, like, no, this is what, at the fundraiser, this is, we all saw this at the fundraiser and it's kind of like, okay, well, I guess it's good that you're speaking up now, but so you've all known that he was like this for how long now and you've just not talked about that. Like, I think that's like kind of a significant story, not even over the last couple of weeks, but like we were saying, we've been talking about this since 2019, Joe Biden's cognitive decline. And this, like, the fact that like, there's this, like, sort of power structure in the Democratic Party, both inside, like the political sphere and outside, that have been basically keeping this quiet or refusing to talk about it. There's been this like code of silence with people in the media for years now. And it's only since the debate that millions of people saw it for themselves, what people that are plugged into this stuff have been noticing for a long time. It's only now that they're starting to talk about that. Like, so that seems significant to me, right? It's like, they're kind of admitting that they've all known all along, that this is what he's like, but they've just been too afraid to see anything about it. - And it's so crazy, like, that the way that they're trying to, the way the level to which like the, you know, the people who want him to run, including like Biden's own campaign, they're trying to gaslight people by saying it's a stutter. And, you know, like, you can have a stutter without saying that you're gonna be raped by your sister, who was maybe in a legal immigrant, as he said, at the debate, I mean-- - Well, even the whole thing of Biden afterwards was like, oh, I traveled around the world in all these different time zones, and I was tired. But that was like weeks, but that was like two weeks before-- - It's like 12 days before. - Yeah, I mean, I think that it's just like, if he wanted to preserve this campaign and stop this media storm, you know, he could probably do a ton of media appearances and be like, yeah, you know, that was a really off day for me. I was sick, and then, you know, prove that he could do it. Like in other, you know, other kind of unscripted, you know, long formats, like really vigorously campaign. And he's just not doing that. So this narrative is like taking hold. And then like the more the campaign just tries to gaslight, like the more kind of the press and all these op-eds, you're like, no, that's not going on. Like we saw what we saw, you have to engage with it in some way, you can't just lie. And I don't know, it's just, to me, it's like everyone keeps using this analogy of like, it's like the Emperor's new clothes. And for so long, everybody was pretending that, you know, the Emperor had a great outfit on. And then just like once everyone was willing to say he was naked, you know, it just breaks. - Yeah, on that, so the Clooney outfit, he of course drove a new cycle all day today. It gave cover and maybe prompted other people to speak out, Rob Reiner jumped on, who was, his already been critical and said Biden should step down. But it did renew this push. But the response from the White House, I thought it was really funny. They said in response to the Clooney outfit, well, George Clooney left the fundraiser three hours before Joe Biden, as if to imply-- - He's the one with cognitive decline. - Yeah, or he's the one that lacks the stamina. No, that just sounds like an extremely boring night. Why would anybody spend an additional three hours on top of however long he was there? He put it on for you. There you go, you got your money. On that front though, reporting from NBC News Today shows that major donors and allegedly donations overall are in the tank for Biden. They are reportedly from anonymous sources, maybe going to see half of what they had projected for the month in donations, people energies falling off. On the record, the campaign denies that. Why would they admit that? They wouldn't project weakness on fundraising or campaign health. But it is another piece of evidence that things are going extremely poorly inside that campaign, despite all of these attempts by them to shut down members of Congress from speaking out for calling him to step aside. I'm curious, Kate, as you see these people speak up, as you see them, one by one call for Biden to step aside, and we see from Biden and his team, he's digging his heels in, he's not going to be much. He's already made up his mind. Do you think that there's a certain amount of people or a certain group of people in Congress that actually can change the outcome? - I think, I don't know, I'd put the odds at 40% 'cause I never want to just underestimate the Democratic Party's ability to lose an entirely winnable election. We've seen them do that again and again and again, obviously, most famously, Hillary Clinton, but just even a lot of little races, smaller races. But I think that the donors, I saw, when that story came out about Abigail Disney last week, about them, like her and other donors, refusing to give money, not just to, Biden's campaign, but also to the Democratic Party in general, I mean, I would imagine that the people paying for the whole thing to keep going, that's got to have some effect, because that could really destroy them as a party if the fundraising dries up. So I think it, I guess it depends on how much donors want to push this and be organized. And I mean, obviously, it's horrible that donors have so much influence over our political landscape. But I mean, Pelosi, Schumer, obviously, they're very invested in fundraising. And if it did get to the point where, you just see a ton of House reps, a ton of senators, combines with the New York Times, editorial board, and all of these people calling for Biden to step down, I do think it's possible that you could begin this delicate defection that is beginning to happen, could take hold. It's also possible that Joe Biden could, you know, resign before that. I mean, everything from, look, like, you know, if we want to get like really sort of conspiratorial and fantastical, like, I'm sure at some point they could literally just blackmail him. But I do think that, you know, it's more likely that, you know, it would just be for all of these people to come out against his run, you know, would just be humiliating. And I personally think Biden is probably a narcissist and, you know, will just dig his heels in. But, you know, if it just really starts to be that it is just him versus the Democratic Party, you know, I think that it's really possible that polls will drop further and that it could create like a cycle that it's just so obvious to everyone that he's not gonna be able to get out of that, you know, like they will exert the maximum amount of pressure. And you already see this starting to happen a little bit where he's becoming kind of a hated figure. Like, I sometimes read the New York Times comments section because I just find it a really interesting place to like kind of take the sort of like center left temperature, the New York Times reader. And it's wild. I mean, like, you know, on some of these op-eds, like Thomas Friedman and, you know, Marine Dowd, like the comments and the editorial board one, you know, the comments are like, you know, how dare he do this? Like, I thought that he was a better man than this. Like, how dare he endanger our country? He's just as bad as Donald Trump. And like, you know, if the mood of the country just turns towards like hate, you know, on the liberal side anyway, you know, I just don't know because it's also like, as I'm talking, I'm like, it's so easy to see him just really deciding to, you know, like dig in his heels and just be like, "Well, if you don't like me, then you all deserve Donald Trump." And, you know, that sort of seems to be like the most likely. I mean, you know, you could also see, I think, you know, Republicans could even potentially, I mean, I was gonna say they could 25th amendment him, but I doubt they would 'cause they really wanna run against him because it's such a layup, you know? So I don't know, but I feel like there's a chance. I don't know, what do you guys think? - I mean, one thing that I noticed today, I don't know if this is answering your question, but I did think there was an interesting shift in the sort of language being used by some of these high-level Democrats. I saw really similar comments from Pelosi, from Blumenthal, from Tim Kaine, Tim Kaine and the Membrane. - Yeah. - Which is kind of an interesting strategy as well 'cause what they're saying about Biden is like, "Well, you know, he just needs to make the right decision "and I'm sure he's gonna make the right decision "for the country." Even though he's repeatedly said, "No, I'm running, "I'm not dropping out, I'm not standing aside, "I'm running against Trump." He's definitively said that multiple times, but they're kind of out there acting like he hasn't done that. And there's still this opportunity, they're like, "Well, whatever he decides, "I'm sure that's gonna be the best course of action, "but maybe they're thinking he'll forget." - Yeah, exactly, yeah. That might be what they're counting on, yeah. But I thought that was an interesting shift in the tone there. - Yeah, 'cause it is sort of funny, it's kind of a Pelosi's epic clapback, I don't know G-word, so passive aggressive. I read that and I was just like, "Yes, queen." You know? (laughing) Like, just like serve it, you know, but-- - Yeah. - But you know-- - Clapping that clapping gift. - Right now, it seems like there's a lot of Democrats and both including the press and sort of the centrist wing of the party, a lot of people in swing districts are kind of coming out with this stuff that is sort of appealing to Joe Biden's sense of honor. He's like purported decency and sort of seeing if they could get him to voluntarily resign. It's kind of like the we are gonna do this the easy way and let's see if they do it the hard way. But I mean, it's just, you know, for them to decide to not do it the hard way is basically to accept a loss to Trump because it's like, however hard it was to imagine, like he was on track to lose before the debate. Then after the debate, there was that, you know, like obviously a lot of people, you know, had concerns about his cognitive functioning and then there was that horrible Stephanopoulos interview where he says, hey, as long as I do my Godous job and then people are like, F you man, this isn't about you and that created a lot of rage, you know, and it's just like all of these op-eds have come out, all of these, you know, like people in office have come out and I think that they'll be more and more and it's like, however hard it was gonna be for him to win anyway, which like might have been already impossible, like it certainly seems like it's far more of an uphill battle now that so many people in his own party and the press that liberals listen to have said, hey, like this guy, you know, is not up to the task of beating Trump and some people even going so far as to say, you know, he might, implying that he might not be able to do the job of president now. On the way they're talking about it, there is like an exercise in stroking his ego from the people who are trying to get convince him to step aside and within that, there's like a whitewashing of his tenure, which I find really repugnant. Tonight Chris Hayes said on the air, Biden is a decent man who has done nothing wrong. He has not, he has not got caught in a scandal. He's just aging and that reality, I think, makes him increasingly likely to lose re-election to a Republican candidate. So he's making the case, of course, and I think Chris Hayes typically does decent coverage on things. He's not the worst on that network by far, but the idea that he has not done anything wrong, even just in his tenure, but of course, they're out his entire career. It's just patently untrue. And that whitewashing of someone's presidency, I find really gross. I don't even know if that strategy is going to work, certainly from cable news hosts, but the effect is viewers accept that by into it. I don't know how many loyal MSNBC viewers who are of a different mindset, but I do find that just really gross. There are other ways to make your case. I think honestly, I think the PODS of America guys have been making that case pretty effectively and it's really wrangled a lot of Democrats. - Yeah, I mean, the PODS of America guys have definitely leaned into their like Joe Biden. It's a decent man stuff, but they are a little more likely and we have a few times kind of called out the kind of arrogance and narcissism that is at the heart of his refusal to step down. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, Joe Biden has been like a really kind of a career racist in my opinion. Like everything from, you know, getting his start, like aligning with a segregationist to the crime bill. - Seems like one of the fathers of mass incarceration in the United States. - Yeah, to supporting the Iraq war, would he most likely because of his committee positions, knew that there were not weapons of mass destruction. Obviously, we can never know a hundred percent, but it's pretty likely. And, you know, obviously like this disgusting genocide in Gaza, which, you know, it's like if you, like if you wanna make the case that, you know, Joe Biden is not a partner tonight in Yahoo in the massive civilian death and starvation in Gaza, then the only thing you can really claim is that Joe Biden is one of the most ineffective weak presidents that we've ever had, that he, you know, can't even get a country that's supposed to be our ally, you know, to comply with even our most basic requests to let aid in in this like stupid peer. And, you know, it's like the only, like that's a scandal in its own right, that he has like completely lost control, which I don't believe. Like I think that, you know, I think that the way that he presents Netanyahu's messaging, like is, it's like he's, I think he's on board with what Netanyahu wants and it's trying to do personally. I don't, I don't know, but, you know, like- - I mean, look at the Biden State Department guys, every single day out there, obfuscating and making excuses for and justifying all of these like horrific crimes, like no matter how obvious it is, you know, it's like there, that's, those are his guys. That's his, those are his people. - Yeah, and that's like, you know, I mean, it's just, so either he's, you know, weak and competent, you know, or he's doing something that is a world historic war crime, you know, and it's, you know, I certainly think it's the second one. And, you know, I think, you know, probably most people who have looked closely, you know, what the United States' participation has been are likely to come to the same conclusion, but like, yeah, the idea that he is, you know, has never had a scandal or something like this. I mean, it's like, it's hard to imagine going to, you know, really any country outside of, you know, the UK and maybe Germany and saying that and not being, you know, seeing a look of complete horror on the face of whoever you're talking to. Like, yeah, I mean, like, the entire world is up in arms about what the US and Israel have partnered to do to Gaza. - Yeah, well, this is the same kind of veneer that Obama got, right? No scandals in the Obama administration, just that 10 suit, that was the only thing. But that's because if you're, if you're an American politician blowing up hospitals and funerals and weddings and murdering people doesn't count as a scandal, 'cause that's just something that you do, I guess, when you're the president of the United States. But for an increasing number of people and I actually saw you were tweeting about this the other day, Kay, which I thought was an interesting point, how for a lot of, especially people, younger people, you know, I'm not really young anymore, I'm middle-aged, but like millennials and younger are refusing to separate foreign policy from this kind of domestic policy. And they're refusing to look at someone that has a maybe a decent okay domestic track record and a horrendous foreign policy record and just saying like, well, I guess, you know, that's just what you do. But like, that's increasing numbers of people are just refusing to make that kind of calculus when they make these decisions. - Yeah, and I think the driving thing on that is getting, and the reason that I think it is generational is I think that like social media, particularly TikTok, but also videos uploaded onto Twitter and Instagram, it's very hard to see those videos of, you know, people, like, you know, I saw, oh man, there's this one that's just never gonna leave me of this dad just screaming in grief, looking at his small daughter's dead body. And it's like, you see something like that. And, you know, these orientalist narratives that, you know, where there's a huge effort to indoctrinate us into in the United States that, you know, Arab lives are, you know, cheaper in some way or, you know, that they're different kind of people than us or that they're terrorists. Like, you look at that, those kind of videos, and you're like, oh, that's just a dad. Like, that's exactly how I would feel if my daughter died. That's exactly, you know, how my parents would feel if that happened to me. Like, what the fuck, you know? And it's just, I don't know if I can swear on this podcast, if so, sorry, but like, you know, I mean, it's just like, it's just, I think, for social media, for all you can, you know, say about its harms as really, I think in some positive ways to really increase the amount of empathy that people have and the amount of, like, you know, actual information about the impact of, you know, what it is doing to give these 2,000 pound bombs and these 500 pound bombs to this extreme right Israeli government. And I'm not saying that to have a fantasy about, like, what, you know, a more liberal Israeli government has been or would be like, but it is notable that we're giving bombs to Netanyahu and, you know, his coalition that is, like, explicitly fascist, you know, like-- - They didn't even seem to like Biden that much and seem like they're like openly campaigning for Trump, yeah. - Yeah, and it's like, and I do think that Joe Biden's age, you know, he's been a huge, like, he's been a huge supporter of killing Palestinians, and I'm specifically not saying, like, Zionist or, you know, like pro-Israel or whatever, because I do think that there are some people that are pro-Israel that do have a big problem with what, you know, is happening right now in Gaza, but, you know, like, there's that clip that snippet that, like, I think Mediasan brought back to life of, you know, in Joe Biden talking to Prime Minister Begin in the 1980s, you know, basically saying, like, hey, you know, you shouldn't be afraid to kill women and children and vegans, like, oh, we don't do that, that's against our beliefs. And, you know, Biden is, like, enthusiastic about it. Like, he's always had this kind of Palestinian bloodlust that's like, you know, it's kind of like, I mean, there's obviously, like, just a lot of racists now, but, like, I think people of the generation that he's in, you know, where, like, he's supporting, like, outright segregation, like, literal segregation. Like, it's just, it's much more, it's just much more likely to strike a younger audience as being like, wow, that's really foul. So, one thing I wanted to point out before we wrap up, and it's one final point on the Biden dropping out conversation. So, you mentioned Netanyahu, his administration, his cabinet, doesn't even seem to like Biden. He released that video a couple weeks ago, chiding as it was described, Biden for delaying weapons shipment. It must have happened between the hours of 10 and four, but the U.S. green lit, the resumption of shipping, 500 pound bombs to Israel. So, during this national conversation about whether Biden should stay on the ticket, he's seeing even more unfavorable numbers, especially for younger people, the polling we cited earlier shows, the majority of young people want him to step aside. And you mentioned, of course, that wasn't pulled, but I think it's safe to assume a majority of Arab Americans would like him to see him step aside for a variety of reasons. He's doing something significantly unpopular in the demographics and the voting blocks where he shows the biggest vulnerabilities. It's just, I question maybe the sanity of his staff and aides that they are pushing him into more and more unpopular decisions at a time where he is under such intense scrutiny about his ability to be president. And on that front, the House Oversight Committee, of course, it's led by James Comer. He does a lot of stuff for publicity and stunts, but they are subpoenaing Anthony Bernal, Annie Thomasini, and Ashley Williams, who are the top three aides in Biden's team in the White House. They have been described by Axios as a cocoon around Biden with them even being sources inside the White House say they will tell Biden who he is talking to. So he knows these people's name. They are a total layer of insulation around him. So very few people get direct access to him. They go through these three people. They're now being subpoenaed. I don't think much will come from those hearings. I don't even know if they'll comply with those hearings or with those subpoenas. But this shows, this narrative that debates don't matter. It's only one bad night. People aren't going to remember between the ads, rebroadcasting, his worst moments in the debate on top of everything else, all these other moments that they have on film. And now these hearings or attempts at hearings, this is going to plague him and nag him every single day until November. And this is a completely avoidable problem. They are going to suffer from this headache even if he chooses to stay in the race. Maybe even if he drops out, but this is a problem created solely by Biden and his team and his campaign. And this is just another example of how it's not just one bad night and it's not just the debate that nobody cares about. Like millions of people saw it and millions of people will see this. It's just, it's truly astounding. - Yeah. And it's like not, you know, the debate is its own, you know, that was obviously really bad, but I agree with you 100% that it's not just one bad night. Right-wing media has been covering, you know, the story of like, you know, Biden's mental decline for months now. And, you know, their view on it is that there's been like a cover up of how bad he's actually doing. And some of these stories that we've seen from like Olivia Nuzzi and, you know, some of Alex Thompson's work at Axios, it makes it seem like, oh, shit. Was that maybe true, you know? And so it's like the scandal is like, have these people been lying to us for months? And like, I don't know, you know, I'm not one of those people that's gonna like, you know, start speculating about, you know, what he has, you know, going on or not. But, you know, I do think that like, it's, you know, if that is true, if it is true that, you know, they have like, you know, made extensive efforts. As Clooney's op-ed kind of implies to cover up the fact that he's actually doing much, much worse than is presented in public. Like then all of a sudden, you know, it's not just a bad debate. It's like a Feinstein type of situation where, you know, like Nancy Pelosi's out here calling people sexist for, you know, questioning, Diane Feinstein's ability to remain a senator. And then you find out like, oh no, that the people were worried about it. We're absolutely right. - Well, and this is a case where the secrecy from the Biden camp is fueling all this kind of conspiratorial thinking. - Yeah. - Like there's the story like you're mentioning. The story like they're uncovering that there's like a neurologist that's been visiting the White House. And instead of being like, oh, here's the reason that was going on. They have this like KG secretive answer, which only makes people speculate more about what is going on. - Yeah, or he could just take a cognitive test, you know? Like he could, like if he wanted to turn this around after the debate, he could have gone out there the next day, given a town hall, a practice schedule with interviews where he does a, you know, a good job, you know, and he has his normal gaps, but ultimately he's, you know, communicating his message. He could, you know, take a cognitive test, release the records from it. But the fact that he's saying, no, no, no, no. Like, you know, I don't know what he has or not, but either way, I'm not sure that it's a good time to take a super antagonistic attitude towards the people who were worried or skeptical because it's like, you know, as much as like the, you know, you see like the kind of like super, you know, pro Biden pundits and even just a lot of his fans being like, oh, you know, we need to get behind Biden. We need to put this talk of another nominee to rest. Okay, well you've looked, we can see in the polls how many people are willing to get behind Biden. And it's like, you know, hovering around 37%, 38%, maybe 40%. It's not as many as willing to get behind Trump. So it's like they have to be able to, you know, get some number of voters back from, you know, or like, you know, on their side who are either, you know, right leaning independents or find a way to bring, you know, progressives who have left over Gaza back into the coalition, maybe with, you know, ceasefire or like they have to do something because right now it's just like, there's, it's just unworkable. Like it will not, it will not happen. Like if it was, if the election were today, Trump would win in a landslide and they just seem to be in complete denial about that. - Well, Kate, we want to thank you for joining us. Where can people check out your comedy special? - So yeah, I know it wasn't that funny when I was talking about this stuff, but I am funny in real life and on my special on Amazon, it's called loopholes and you can watch it there, also on Apple TV. I'm on Instagram @kate.willot with 2L's and 2T's. I post a lot of stand-up clips there and I am on Twitter @katewillot, same spelling, but no diet. And yeah, those are the places you can find me. I'm probably coming to your city soon so also check my website for tour dates. I've shows coming up in Portland, Seattle, Northern California, so yeah. - Yeah, listen, like even though this conversation was not that funny, it is kind of objectively funny if you can step outside, like just take a step back and look at that for like there's this like reality show buffoon running against this like Democratic president who's 9,000 years old and can barely talk anymore. And I'm like, come on. - Yeah, it is so funny that like, you know, I mean, it's just like we've all just seen like the bar get sort of lower and lower with like, you know, the people that Democrats run for office and there is something so comical about them just getting to the point where like, I don't think it's important if the president's brain works. I would go for him if he's literally dead. I think we'll be working for him. - If he's in a diaper or-- - After yesterday being like, if he was pooping his pants, I would still vote for him. And it's like, there's this, there's this like, there's this urge to just be like, it's so like nihilistic in a way, you know, just being like, nothing matters. Only our team matters. You know, he could be like, you know, a corporate is the one that they always use. And it's just like, there's no awareness of how that sounds to like a regular person who is not super invested in this like, weirdo DNC stan shit. - Yeah, very strange. Well, thanks a lot, Kay. Thanks for joining us on the show. - Thank you so much. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)