Aww hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and joining me once again for another fantastic fan requested episode is none other than the I was about to say walking castle but I feel as if you're going to punch me it's the one and only Andrew. Andrew welcome back. Thank you for having me. I see myself more as like the hopping scarecrow or the turnip character. I think it's more my speed. Which was the style at the time. No we used to put his turn on a stick. It was the style at the time. You know what I'm not even going to continue that because we're going to go take a deep ruffle away. Have you had that planned already or did that come to read just now? A lot of call me. But yeah how are you doing tonight Andrew? I'm good thank you. We've wrapped up on Star Wars month and we're now moving on to another whimsical world as we talk about the topic of today's episode. Yes today of course we are going to be tackling a film that is 20 years old this year which makes me feel incredibly old and not sure if it makes you feel old Andrew but yeah today we are going to be talking about the Studio Ghibli classic house moving castle and I have to say what a film. You guys chose an absolutely fantastic film for us to review but before we go on and talk about the great the whimsical and maybe they're not so good bits of this film. I've got to turn it on you Andrew and ask what is your experience just overall when the I was going to say the Ghibli sphere. The Ghibli verse. The Ghibli verse yeah the Ghibli cinematic universe where Paulino is fighting oh I don't know the cat bus. Yeah the cat bus she's not got her ticket you know it's like Smash Brothers but yeah what is your experience with this wider studio? I think we've touched on my experience with Ghibli in a previous episode but my initial experience was with Spirit of the Way. My sister was very invested in it probably talking 15 years ago now. I don't remember she was watching it on a car ride on our computer and I kind of watched a long I was so fascinated by this. I haven't watched anime before but nothing like what she was watching so that was very interesting and then moving on to watch Princess Ma and Okie and to my neighbor Totoro and then braided the fireflies and other films like that and then when I moved over to Canada I started watching some of the other Ghibli movies with my partner and so we kind of have gone through quite the collection of Ghibli movies. I haven't seen them all they're still quite a few to watch but I had a very strong relationship with Ghibli movies in terms of my anime film upbringing. It was quite an important part of my anime upbringing and is what I always recommend to people who are getting into anime to start off with the like studio Ghibli. It's what my partner started off with and funnily enough my partner watched Howl's Moving Castle before I did. Watching it yesterday was my first ever time watching it and her third time and so it was quite an interesting turn where she was very much more knowledgeable about what was going to happen in the movie than I was for this anime. I knew call yourself an anime fan. I know. I know. You'll discuss me normally talking. I mean for me personally I feel as if I owe a lot to studio Ghibli in the sense that it got me back into anime. I don't know if I've told you this story but I remember years ago you know obviously we spoke about this in the past episodes where we talked about our anime experiences as well as our favourite and west favourite anime tropes but when I was growing up I was watched the usual Pokémon, Dragon Ball Z even watched a bit of death note at the time. One day I remember flicking through the channels and I came across a channel here called BBC4 and BBC4 is considered one of the more intellectual channels compared to some of the other ones but they were having a Japan appreciation week. The one thing that stood out to me was this film that came on called 'SPEDITED AWAY' and I genuinely never knew how beautiful animation could be until I watched 'SPEDITED AWAY' and I just I was absolutely mesmerised that this film was just so beautiful looking. It was so realistic looking and again it cooked me back onto all of these anime's and films I was just missing out on and when you and I met in university we actually watched quite a few studio Ghibli films didn't we? Yeah I think we watched 'Rinson Onoku' together, we watched 'Gird of the Fireflies' together, possibly 'Wind Rises' together. No I think we watched 'Castle and the Sky'. Oh I hope you say it's full name. No, no I have Spanish listeners, no. I completely forgot about La Pudig 'Castle and the Sky'. Oh no, could have felt like a studio Ghibli sense or something though, sorry go on. We watched that and we did not watch 'Wind Rises' together, I guess I watched that independently and I watched when Marnie was there independently as well, not found that one but that's for another day. Trying to think what other ones we watched together, 'Focorosa'. No, I tend to be watching 'Porco' also together, I actually can't- I have never seen all of 'Focorosa' all the way through so I don't think we did because I again know what I could really get into. I fell asleep halfway through 'I'm not gonna lie' maybe it's just because I was tired, you know, I need to give her a second chance but I was a sleepy boy that deep, please. It was your Ben Herr. Exactly, exactly. Do you want to explain that reference or what? I mean, it's not really just a reference, it's like a short story where I got into trying to watch all the classic movies when I was in university with Tatsu. One day I decided I didn't have any classes, it was the afternoon and I caught Ben Herr on and I watched it for about 45 minutes and probably fell asleep, woke up two hours later and it was still on and I was like, 'When will this movie end?' and I looked and still had another, like, hour to go. I think the funniest part of that though was I came back from a day of classes, I was really tired and I saw you come out your room and I was like, 'Oh, how has Ben Herr?' and he turned round to me and literally he just went, 'Oh, I fell asleep, there was no- oh, it's a cinematic masterpiece you have to watch it.' I was just like, 'Nah, I got bored halfway there.' I feel so guilty. I try and be so good with being a good little cinephile and watching all these sort of classic movies but I just get so bored with all these old movies and where I completely get off on the good, the bad, the ugly, which is such a last most thing to say. It took too long to get going. 'I know we're gonna get to the ugly.' The ugly factory. How dare you say that about Clint Eastwood? Anyway, before we get cancelled, let me continue with him. I used to do a keepably journey. So, yeah, as I was saying, you and I watched a lot of the films together and after university, I watched quite a few of them independently as well. A lot of them are on Netflix, which is really handy. I met my partner years and years ago, but last year we went on a bit of a studio gebly binge. We watched things like when Marnay was there or Coruso, which again, we didn't really get far into. Earthsea, we watched a bit of, 'Oh, there's quite a couple that we did watch, we watched a lot of them.' So, they kind of blurred together. He's the lovely service. 'Oh, oh, my girlfriend loves that.' And I have to say, it's becoming a slow way of a favourite of mine. My neighbour, Totoro as well. We tried to stick to the more cheery ones on you, of course, as well. The cat returns. That was actually a surprisingly really good one. Whatever the one before it is, I hope these are strategic. My neighbour, the amateurs. Yeah. I believe about Kiki's delivery service. It's another one. I watched an absolute love. I think that was one that you and I watched together as well. Oh, of course. Yeah. All I remember about the film is, 'Shift lies in the broomstick. She cries about the fish pie.' And then at the very end, that kid hangs off of one. But I'm not the number between. I'm like, 'Yeah, I can't remember this.' And it's actually the same with this particular film that we're going to be talking about today, because I actually have quite a funny story about this, because my girlfriend, of course, most amazing woman in my life, she loves house moving castle. And it's actually the reason that she got into playing the violin if I told you this. No, that's interesting. So there's a particular song called 'Mary Go Round of Life' and it's from a composer who hinted at the majority of the soundtrack for the film called Joe Hisashi. And honestly, it is a beautiful song. I'm not going to play it for copyright reasons, especially the one that goes like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. It's kind of like a waltz, but it's just such a beautiful song. And she heard this song. She kept listening to it. She heard people who were playing it on the violin and things. And she was just absolutely enraptured by it. And yeah, she absolutely loves this film. And I have to say, although, you know, I've got my points about it. The good, the bad, and the howling as we are there is a lot to love about this film. And Mr. Joe, if you're listening, thank you for that inspiration. But it is amazing the absolute however that this film has on people even today, even in 2024. And I do have a couple of comments and testimonies from people talking about their thoughts and feelings on the film, but see before we dive into that while we have a short break. Yeah, let's crank up the demon fire and get moving with this ad break. Through your egg shells into the fire, and we will, of course, be right back after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's run as James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises. Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub series, Chatsunami, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Bayblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out with Spotify, iTunes, and open podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated. Howdy beans, and welcome to my podcast trailer. Now, you're probably wondering, who's this weird English fella talking to me about beans? Well, great question. I am the host of the nerd-stage podcast, Luke The Human. Nice to meet you, hope you're doing well, hope you're all good. As always, now, you're probably wondering what is the nerd-stage podcast? Well, enough good question, let me answer that for you. The nerd-stage podcast is a variety podcast talking about all things nerdy and nostalgic, from books, to video games, to movies, to TV shows, basically, if it's nerdy. And even if it just has the smidge, the hint of nerd-ism to it, rest assured, I will cover it. On all platforms, from Spotify, Google Podcast, Amazon Music, and YouTube, all you do is search Nerd target podcasts, and you'll find me. So, I hope to see you there really soon. Hi, this is Dan from Casting Views, and you're listening to another great episode from Chatsune Army. Let's get back to the show. So, before we go into what makes this film so iconic, Andrew, would you like to hear some thoughts and comments from the lovely listeners? Yeah, for sure. I'm interested to hear what they have to say about this interesting, Diblic Classic. Our first couple of comments come from the lovely post-pack collective group. Absolutely love you guys, big shout-out. Honestly, I feel as if I'm giving myself a high five, considered a gang part of it as well. So, the first one comes from Seismic Cinema, who actually said that they've never seen it, but that looks highly impractical, and they're referring to the castle, which I just replied with whimsy. It's pretty unstable, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, it is, but I mean, you can sort of trip yourself over in a few of the gebly themes and sort of imagery. If you're sort of discounting house-moving castle for being unrealistic or silly, then I think you're going to struggle with a lot of other Miyazaki's works. Don't tell them about the tenukis. They're not sack of parachutes, they're gliders that went back there. I watched that film with my partner, and we were both just horrified in howling with laughter. What movie is that, again? You know what, I have to type in to my search engine. Raccoon, nut sack anime. Tenuki, big, ball gebly. Oh gee off, I didn't want to see the pictures. Jesus, palm poco. Oh, palm poco, all right. Sorry, I'll get back to house-moving castle in a second, but the first two questions people asked is, what's with the balls and poco? And the second one is, is palm poco okay for kids? No. No, no two. Cancer is no. Better be moving on. The read from the two girls when we use the book up postcast says, "The main character actually was very content about turning into an old lady, which at first I did not get, but now I relate to it more and more each day. Also, I dream about that breakfast. How did they make it so good?" Oh, that's anime food in general. Ghibli food in particular, I think. You were desperate to try, even like the stuff that looks like absolute nonsense monster food, you're just like, "Oh, I would totally eat that weird eel slop that they're eating it. Like, it always just looks so good." Why did you first say a ghibli? If I were like, "Hmm, my favourite eel slop?" Sverter way has some weird food, okay? Okay, okay, okay, I'll give you that. I mean, to be fair, they do turn into pigs. I would turn into a pig when I saw that food. It looks pretty great. So our next one comes from Friends of the Channel with Stevie Amoth, who is really sad to write this heartfelt message. She says, "It's no secret by now that Studio Ghibli have really smashed the piece after master piece over the years, but for me personally, how old's moving castle will always have a special place in my heart. It is, to this day, one of my favourite examples of the magic and ones they portrayed, all hand-drawn 2D animation with backgrounds and settings, looking like they belong in a museum, which is very true because you got me postcards of Studio Ghibli films, and that's one of the ones that's prominently displayed. Oh yeah, I do get you those. I do keep them to hand. I don't just go, "Oh, thank you." And then put them in the drawer. I can't remember where I got them from now. Sophie Hatter is an example of a female protagonist I relate to heavily, and her story being so much more than her budding romance with how old still resonate so deeply in me, especially as I get older myself. I used to watch the movie to help me sleep, and the masterfully written score, especially the main theme, "Mere go round of life." There we go. Big shout out. Became like a lullaby to send me to sleep. Charge Joe. Exactly Joe. My man. Come on, jump on the podcast. I don't really think he doesn't speak any. I want to go home. Ah yes, thank you Joe. Very Joe. Big "Mere go round of applause for Joe." Who is that? The final thing she said there is to this day score is one of the few film soundtracks I keep on my playlist. This movie is a masterclass in storytelling. Rich while building a remain close to my heart for years to come, and our final one is from resident friend of the channel, Wonko, who has also talked about the themes of the film, which is something again we'll dive into while touching all these fantastic points that you've all raised. But he says, "I guess it's an interesting talking point that curses while ostensibly bad serve to show things of what they really are, as opposed to obfuscating or hiding things, like Sophie starts of old, her inner age reflected, but the more she falls for how, the younger she becomes while retaining her gray hair. Kind of like how howl is always running away from things because of his curse was rooted in childhood, down to the literal moving castle he's inside, and that other witch, which was the anti-sophie, and then he asked about the turn-up because I couldn't remember what the turn-up guy was all about, which we will get onto him. That was a really weird... That was so-so-so, it's an odd, old ending to that character. I'm gonna stop the war. Who the hell are you? It's okay guys, I'm off to stop the war. He's got it everyone. Turn a boy's got this! Who the frickin'... Anyway, we'll get onto that, but first of all, love our listeners, thank you so, so much for giving us those thoughts and input genuinely, absolutely fantastic points raised, but before we dive into that and we dive into the absolutely rich themes and what we liked about this, do you want to give a brief summary, or would you like me to give a brief summary of the song? This is the Russian robot of the night. I guess I can jump into it, I've done all these in a while. Yeah, go for it. Okay, so we're in a magical European-esque kind of land. Not Germany, yeah. We're in not Germany, and it's also not Wales, despite the fact that it was written by a Welsh person. This was based off of a novel from a Welsh person, by the way, so we have Sophie, who's a hatter, who is going through her very military town, and then bumps into this magical wizard who, by association, she gets embroiled with a wicked witch, who curses her to be all old, and our main character, Sophie, now old, heads off and discovers howl's moving castle, this giant house on legs that like wanders across the land, enters the house and befriends the fire demon inside in a young boy, as well as howl himself. She immediately becomes their house cleaner and sort of shapes up the place and gets involved with howl, who is fighting against war. It feels like just every Miyazaki, if that was like war. What kind of Miyazaki, just war? He's both the expression of pacifism, but also each time he is trying to be a pacifist, he becomes more of a demon and loses himself. We're talking about howl here, by the way, no? Yeah, exactly. Well, who knows really. And then Sophie kind of discovers who howl really is, and the connection he has with the fire demon calcifer, and the inner politics of the land, and she sort of saves the day, and pieces restored, and a magical prince is like, I've got this guys. I'm a turnip. I'm a turnip. And again, he hops away. He meeps the war in the bud. I hope people get that reference, because that was excellent, but everybody, this is your daily reminder to learn Scots for the love of God. But yeah, that is an absolutely excellent summary, thank you. So yeah, as you said, it is based on, and I can't believe how old this, because it's based in the 1986 book by Diana Win Jones. You have to say it like it's in Welsh. I don't want to get canceled by the nation of Wales. All five of them in their sheep, let's see them try. Look, all I'm saying is I'm in a precarious position with my Doctor Who views, okay? You know, there's almost so many times you can film in a card of quarry. I don't want to go to war with Wales. They've got very good archers, so I've heard. Yeah, a very Miyazaki-sancier. I don't want to go to war, please. I'll build a flying machine unlike you've ever seen. Yeah, that was wild to learning that this was setting Wales, I will get one to that. But I was actually really surprised, because I have to say, I'm not going to pretend that I've sat down and read the book, because ironically enough, because my partner stole into this film, I bought her the novel of it, and when I say the novel of it, is the novel that the film was based off of. There is a lot of very interesting differences, I have to say, in particular that the actual book apparently has no war in it. Oh, yeah, did you know that? Do you know the reason why it has a war? The movie, you mean? Yeah, probably to do with Miyazaki's opposition to the invasion of Iraq. Yep, then go. Yeah, because he was really against that. I remember he didn't come to one of the Oscars that a Ghibli movie was nominated for in protest against the War of Iraq, and then he didn't come the next year because he was pissed off, because House Women Castle lost to a Wallis and Gromit, the Curse of the Wear of it. No, it didn't. Yeah, seriously. What for? Yeah, well, that's animated. Seidously? Yeah, Wallis and Gromit, the Curse of the Wear of it beat House Women Castle for best animated feature, but the Oscars in 2005? That is incredible. I love that fact. I'm going to put that out and put it on my wall. Like, just the thought of Miyazaki seeding every time he sees stop motion animation. He's just like, "Oh, I lost that man in his dog." Oh, that's amazing. It's very much a Miyazakiism. There's a whole line to war message when I think the book, although it's a bit more muddled, it's not as clear from what I've heard that, yeah, he added the war aspect or rather the anti-war because of, as you've said, the terrible administration of Iraq in 2003. So the themes of anti-war are very prevalent and, again, we will get on to that, but do you want to know one more fun fact before we go on to talking about what's great about this film? No, go ahead. So, in the film, for anyone who doesn't know, in which case, I would recommend you go watch it and then come back and listen. But one of the things that's special about this film is that the castle actually walks about and traverses the land, but how has this magical dial on the side of his door? And there's like four colors. I think it's green, blue, red and black. So all of them create magical portals to different locations in the land. So you've got one in the heart of one city, one in the heart of another, one in the middle of nowhere with this beautiful scenic view. So romantic. Now, in the film, you never quite realise what the black dial relates to and the way that, and again, obviously spoilers if you haven't gone by now, but what it seems to relate to is memory from how old's past. It's like his childhood, how he got the powers and everything. It's a very poignant scene, of course, in the book. It's a portal to Wales. Truly dark, dark place. That is one of my earth shattering. Just, I sat reading that because I was looking at the differences between the book and the film and things, and I was like, there is no way that this is just a portal to Wales. Turned out it is. That's why Hal said to the little boy, you're not to go there. It's a lawless land. I have to admit, I've got nothing against Wales, so we've got reasons that is obviously a joke. The legal reasons I do have something against Wales come at me. You can say that because you're in Canada, but yeah, it's just, it will never not be funny to me. This magical place just leads to Wales. It almost reminds me of, do you remember that film, Stardust? I do. I really like that movie, actually. Yeah, me too. We should really do a review of that, actually. I'm not a directorist, but yeah, there might be a bit of that where, again, that's a film about a young man who goes to a magical world by basically just hopping over a fence, and there's like a magical world right across. Some people go to England, probably go reasons as to joke, but yeah, it's kind of similar in the sense that I think that he actually has a life in Wales. You're like, please rugby and everything, but then he's a wizard in this other world. I don't know, it just seems very peculiar and over the top. What I quite liked about the portal system thing is that clearly he was known in both kingdoms and like the kings of each kingdom. We're like, who want you to come fight for us in the war against the other kingdom? He was being like recruited by both kingdoms. Yeah, left on red. Yeah, that was interesting, but again, speaking of the onesie and everything, can we talk about the animation? Yeah, of course. I mean, that was one of the first things I kind of noted. We know going into a Gabley movie that it has this beautiful animation, this such vibrant colors, but like, I was immediately struck by just how gorgeous the colors used in this movie were. They are incredibly vibrant. They're using such a variety of palettes in the initial kind of kingdom that we're used to, because I mean, quite a lot of Gabley movies are set in much more rural or desert-y kind of landscapes where the color palette might be a bit more limited, it might be a bit more toned down, whereas in this kind of kingdom, you had bright fabrics and different market stalls, and there were military parades with different colors flying flags and that kind of thing. And I immediately I was like, wow, this is so appealing to the eye. It's so interesting. What were your kind of initial thoughts with regards to animation? No, I thought it was absolute gorgeous. I mean, I think that's one of the first notes I put down. I was just like, the animation is absolute good breath taken. And then all Gabley films seem to love. And I think it's just like an anime thing in general. I don't know why, but it always seems to be this kind of medieval germany, or not even medieval, but you know that kind of... And Renaissance going, yeah, that kind of style, very western European kind of style, and it's something that's very familiar to us. And I found it quite interesting that me as I could chose this story in particular, because it's very, very western, but what's quite interesting as well, although he's telling this story, he doesn't really try to make a... This is going to sound really weird, but he doesn't try to infuse many Japanese elements, if that makes sense. Like, he's not trying to create a fusion between the two or its own identity. This is very much rooted in very western culture and things, but at the same time, you can see the life of this city, as you say, to the vibrant colors, especially, you know, with the battles, with the fight scenes and things, with the magic and display, everything about this film pops. Honestly, see, for the most part, you could probably pause most landscape shots and just use it as your wallpaper, genuinely. It is just absolutely fantastic. There's only one slight nitpick, and I hope that the Ghibli fans aren't going to smash my windows in. Like, the time this comes out that there's one slight issue I have with the animation, and I don't know if you noticed this as well, but the way they animate house face sometimes, what do you mean? This is something that I like to call Ghibli face. It's obviously a distinctive style, but I feel as if how is the only character that it looks like, you know that default emoji, where it's the guy smiling with his eyes open, and he's like, grinning. Sometimes he'll just have that blank expression, where he's like in a very dangerous situation, and it's not a cheeky smile, or, you know, oh, you look at me, I'm a rebel, blah, blah, blah, it just doesn't fit. And I know that sounds like a really weird nitpick, but that's the only thing that really threw me off, and I don't know if it's between that or the fact it was voiced by Christian people that maybe added to that. Okay, I wanted to get around to that, actually, I addressed the elephant in the room, did you watch this dubbed? Oh yeah, that works just dubbed. Okay, my partner and I watched this subbed, and so you and I have a bit of a different kind of interpretation of the voicing then for this movie, that's quite interesting, but just kind of going back to character animation. What I thought was quite interesting, my partner also kind of noted this as well when we're watching, is Sophie, when she's in her young form at the start, it's very plain looking. Yeah, I noticed that as well, yeah. It's very different than your typical Ghibli protagonist, that she does look very plain, and it'd be very easy to be like, oh, it's a boring style, but that's kind of the point of her, her character, that she has always said, I've never been beautiful, I've not beautiful, I've always been quite plain looking, now I'm like an old ugly woman, and so having that very plain animation or a plain design, it always stands out in this Ghibli world Ghibli universe as being quite unique in its own way. And so I found that quite interesting, and then when she becomes old Sophie, like she does stand out a lot more, she looks like you baba from Spirit Away, mind you, there's certainly a bit of a style that Miyazaki has with what old ladies look like, but it was very interesting that how much more detail was put into old Sophie, and I was so interested as well by the changing of ages that she went through in very short scenes as well, sometimes she would just kind of transition from different age ranges in one scene, and then sometimes it would cut away and cut back and she'd change from one to the other. I was quite sad when she actually didn't have her natural hair colour by the end, that she still had the grey hair, but maybe that's a personal preference. Well, but partly she was a red-haired in the books, which is weird, because they do have a scene on this where how has a meltdown about turning ginger, which I'm like, Miyazaki, what did you mean by this? One of Miyazaki's first ever projects was Anna Green Gables, very famously a story about a ginger girl who it's teased for being ginger, he was a composite artist, believe it's called an in-between artist, where you're filling in the frames in between shots, and that was kind of his like entry into animation, I believe, I mean, I know he worked, I know maybe he had more involvement than in-betrains by that point, but I know that in-betrains was how he got into the industry. But yeah, now I can only co-sign everything you said there, the fact that the designs as well, I feel was the first so distinct, because it does feel like a fantasy world as core, but also feels very steam-punk-esque at times, and I don't know if that was the intention of the book, because from what I know, the book is more sofy having to come to terms with what's happened to her and things like that, and unless it's very much a combination of magic and steam-punk, which is of my always welcome, I always think they are two genres, they really come together quite well, and yeah, just the designs of the ships, the designs of the enemies and things, although I hated the character, the witch of the waste, I do think our style is absolutely iconic as well, you know, everybody has an identity in this, you know, it's not like they're just copy and pasted, which obviously you wouldn't expect studio gameplay, especially in 2004 to do that, or just everything about the animation, as I said, other than how old's weird face times, genuinely, I know I keep going on about it, but it's just honestly, watch it and tell me there's some moments where it just smiles like a really weird person, but otherwise, yeah, I really can't complain, if it was if the action is very visceral, it's very well animated, you can follow along with everything, it's near perfection, to be honest, it's that kind of peak studio gateway animation, and just going off on that point, the music as well is absolutely astounding, every single track is, I'm not going to say a bop, you know, every single track is just absolutely beautiful, it is a gorgeous soundtrack, it's one you can listen to on loop, honestly, this film doesn't look right, but here's a question for you before we go into the next part of the analysis, do you think that you would recommend this film to first time watchers of anime? Probably not, it's difficult because what I've said before is that it's very much dependent on the person and their interests and like what I think will and won't turn them off of watching more anime, for some people, Spirit Away is perfect and for others, they might be too weirded out and you want something a bit more entry level, and for some people, that's Princess Monoke and for others, that's not Ghibli at all, it's your name or the girl who left her time or something like that, so it is very much dependent on the person, but I typically would not recommend Hell's Women Castle to a new anime watcher because I think that there are certain wackiness to it that you kind of have to be prepped for by watching other anime. I wouldn't discourage it because I think that if you like whimsy and have not watched anime, but you like whimsy fantasy, then there's a good chance you will enjoy this and it was one of the first anime movies that my partner watched and she loves it, so I can attest for the fact that it can be a very early Ghibli watch, I believe that she'd watch the girl who left her time first as her first anime movie, and then I think Hell was second, so I think it was her first Ghibli movie, but it was not her first anime movie, so it's tricky one. I, from my perspective, know, but it can work, and I think it's very dependent on the person, or your kind of views on that. I'm a bit mixed on that because this kind of leads into my slight negatives about the film, and it wasn't really until I rewatched it that I started to notice these things, but I feel as if the pacing in Hell was moving castle, and I don't know how you feel about this, I'd love to hear what you think about this, but the pacing for me personally was just all over the place, and I think the reason for that, although as I said it looks gorgeous and everything, there's some absolutely amazing moments, and I do love the themes that this film does portray. I think the fact that it's got an anti-war message and this war going on in the background, I feel as if takes away from the core story, because inherently this is about a young woman who is, as you said, at the start, she is a hatter, she makes hats with her family, and everything, or rather. I don't know if it's like family business or something, but anyway, she makes these hats, and she gets cursed by this horrible witch, the witch of the waist, then it is something that Mary from the two girls won reusable cup postcast mentioned there, but it's almost as if one she gets cursed, she really takes it in her stride, and I get, you know, there's the characterisation of, oh, she's just taking this obstacle when she's running with it, it's an intro, sorry, popling a slight pace. She got some speed, when she was running to get that door, I turned to my partner and said that is impressive, that she's able to run at the age that she's now become, that she's able to run after this moving castle, at that pace, it was quite impressive. I mean, to be fair, to turn up man, not keep up with it as well. Yeah, but he's pretty exceptional. It was really cute when she dropped her shawl, and he went back and picked it up and brought her shawl back to her, that was really sweet. I mean, there are some really lovely moments in this, but yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Because, as I said, I think it's maybe just because Miyazaki was just very intent on having this anti-war message in, which is perfectly fine, but I feel as if it's two separate plots, you know? Yeah, in a way. I mean, is Hal then just finding the Witch of the Waste? Is he finding Zulliman? What is the driving force in the movie? Can't he be so free being old and playing his house? What else is going on? Yeah, because he accepts that really, really fast, which I genuinely, when I rewatched it, I thought I'd skip to seeing her something, when she just goes into the castle, and obviously she's not allowed to talk about her curse. But that's obviously the reason why she's there, and even Billy Crystal is the fighter in this dub. He's kind of a hit-or-miss, I have to say, but that's another thing. Japanese counseling is pretty great. Yeah, I have to say, usually if I was choosing, if I had to choose between the two, I would choose the sub all the time. It's just unfortunately, it shows the dub for this one, which they're not the worst. It's not the worst dub I've seen, but there's some moments where you listen to it, and you're like, nah, that could have been redone or whatever. But I know, for the most part, a lot of the people involved. Christian Bea, especially, was a huge studio Ghibli fan after seeing the previous film, so that was really cool. But yeah, so she enters the castle. We are, as we've established, how has a lot of enemies, including The Witch of the Waste, including his former mentor figure, who I think is two characters merged into one for the sake of the film, but EA just accepts it. She goes, "Oh, I'm your cleaning lady." And both of them straight up say, "Oh, you have a curse on you, don't you?" And obviously, she can't say that, but they know the curse is there, but they just kind of like, "Oh, right, okay." And then they just let her stay there. It just seemed very weird, and especially later on, and this really annoyed me when they took in the Witch of the Waste after she's been drained of all her powers and things. They let her stay, and even though they caught her poison in Calcifer. Hmm, that was a very weird scene. Yeah, but then she ends up eating Calcifer, or... She tries to absorb the heart. But that's the thing, I know it's the whole, "Oh, that heart wasn't destined for you, it was destined for Sophie, blah, blah, blah." You know, you know, that's what they're going for, but it just does a lot of very weird choices. I know I sound as if I'm being very net picky there I don't mean to be, but yeah, there's definitely a few things that maybe could have tidied up there in terms of the pacing, and the structure of the story as a whole, because I think, as you said, there's some really good scenes in this, but then there's just other scenes like that, you're like, "What?" Yeah, the pacing is a bit strange, for sure. I think they could have tidied it up a bit better. It did seem to be all over the place, and they kind of wrapped up the end very quickly. Yeah, as we joked about with Turnup Guy, Turnup Man turns out to be like a long loss prince, and I think I could be wrong, but I'm sure they get from one throw away line about that. Prince Justin. Prince Justin, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Prince Justin, they say like, "Oh, the prince is missing in one throw away line." And it's not until the end that the Turnup Man to a real boy, and it's like, "Oh, I'm going to go home and end the war. Is that how easy wars are ended?" Can you just go home and say, "Now, I don't want to play with you anymore, and just not go to war." Andrew, have we found the solution to World Peace here? I think we might have, actually. Yeah, let's gather up all the Turnups we can, and start trying the turn them into real boys. Do you want to hear something wild I found? Oh, do tell. So, I was on the Wikipedia page for Howl's Moving Castle, and I saw like, "Calcifer is Billy Crystal in the English dub." And original version of Calcifer is Tatsuya Gaussian. The hyperlink for his name was red, and I was like, "What?" So, I hovered over, and it says like, "Page does not exist." But I was a little JP next to it, with another hyperlink, because it takes you to his Japanese Wikipedia page, which does exist. And I then English translated that using the Google Translate feature on Wikipedia. Show it out to Wikipedia. Thanks, Wikipedia. That he was abducted by North Korea, but like, he was on a fishing trip, and he got abducted. And earlier this year, did I think in an interview about it? No way. Oh, my gosh. In March 3, 1991, Akira Wafoto went missing, this is his other name. Went missing while fishing at a breakwater south of Wadahama in a tami. Police report was filed, and a large-scale search was launched until he was found three days later, creating a stir in mass media. This is Google Translate feature, including a variety of shows, sports, newspapers, and women's weekly magazines. The cost of searching for him was said to be 3 million yen. In 2003, 12 years after the incident, the magazine, whatever, reported the possibility of abduction by North Korea, signing a source for the National Police Agency. The case was brought into spotlight. Again, regarding his abduction theories, Wakado did not respond to a request for interview, and the Sankai Sports newspaper report, an anonymous source, had laughed at the story, saying there's no way that could happen. Any interview on YouTube's "Matty Oracle" channel, raised in March 2024, Wakado spoke about being abducted by North Korea. I guess that's his poor translation, and that he was just talking about the story around it, and not actually that it happened. So essentially, it can be summarised as I was taken by North Korea. Nah, nah, nah. Back and forth for several years. It was only three days. It would be a bit weird to have been abducted by North Korea for a few days, then it's released. I'm not being funny here, but North Korea don't seem to be a country that do things by halves. Yeah, I feel like you'd be gone for a while longer than three days if that was what happened. Panda audience, see when you put on this episode, did you think we were going to be talking about North Korea? I'm North Korean listeners, do tell us. What's it like there? Please help you to reach out to us at chatsanami.com and we would love to hear from it if I know if all you've got reasons as to joke. It's not a joke, I would only hear from North Korean listeners. Don't limit our audience. Oh yeah, that untapped market of podcasters. Can you name me North Korean podcasters? I think there's a reason. Yeah, because no one's tried. Off our airway frequency and hit that shit over the border. So what you're saying is the next road trip that we're going to take, anyway, yeah, if you're young or bust. I don't know how to continue from up. Let me go back to my notes here. The heart and soul of our podcast. So totally not to go off of that topic for good part. Yeah, I think now is probably a good time to talk about the themes that this particular film raises, because you know, we have a film about a very young, unconfident. And as we say, playing women who is very unsure of herself, she's kind of falling into this. I don't want to say me not today, but you know, this kind of comfortable regular lifestyle. And she comes across a terrible fate where she gets cursed by, it was about to say the Wicked Witch of the Waste. The Wicked Witch of the Waste sounds more fun, to be honest. It's still that alliteration going on. The Wicked Witch of the Waste, yeah, let's go with that. Ww-w-doh. Aretchino Mayo. Yeah, so she gets transformed and turned old women, and she has to find her confidence or self-worth as is. But in doing so, she of course comes across how, who is this very interesting figure. Again, these mood swings are all over the place. I have to say, I prefer them as a character, see when he was involved, either like in an action scene or he was showing a lot of emotion. I know I joked earlier about him having a meltdown about his hair coloring things, but I actually really liked the scene in the sense that you could tell he was a very immature person. Despite the fact he was this really powerful wizard, he was also very unstable, it was very volatile, but maybe that explains why he had this kind of mask going off. Oh, look, I'm happy all the time. Ha ha ha, two seconds later, having something very mundane, happened to him like that, and just having an absolute freak out. But what did you think about the themes of characterisation for the film in three thousand books or less? Well, how was a little bit of a little bitch, to be honest? See, when me has actually made this film, do you think that's what he wanted in the bottom of the ball star? How old's moving castle? How old's a bit of a bitch, isn't he? He is, though, isn't he? And like, he's so dramatic, there's a lot of melodrama as well. He can be a bit frustrating, which is kind of like part of his character, I guess, and you can sort of note that down as being like a quirk of his character, but he doesn't even kind of get over himself a little bit. And like, he initially posits himself as being this very handsome wizard who's whisking her away, and almost an all-knowing magical man, who is like looping the third, and manages to whisk away just in the right time, away from the bad guys. But then we get to meet him a little bit more, and he dies his hair the wrong colour, and this hasn't a complete meltdown, quite literally, because he starts melting. And then for much of the rest of the movie, he just kind of seems a bit pathetic. And I kind of lost, not interested in him, but I certainly didn't like his character as much from that point on. Now that I'm looking for an alpha male protagonist in the story that's not really what it was, but just that I don't really want to see this kind of pathetic character, when you suggested that he was better than that. Yeah, it seems very much like a bit of an oxymoron, that you've got this character who is very much portrayed as strong, very, very powerful, so much so that the kings of the modern nations, they want how own their side, and it's literally, I think like a red versus blue situation going on where they're both fighting one another, how has to fight when they need to. And as I said, although I dislike some of the choices they did for the characterisation of certain characters, I do think that when he was emotional, at least there was something to latch onto. Jamie will see when he's just standing there, and he just starts laughing, and he's like, oh look, this random old woman who could be a witch, I don't know, came into my house to clean up, he just doesn't question it, and it feels really weird to have this all-powerful wizard, I don't know. Considering the sting of his house and what Sophie manages to turn into, I don't blame him, I want Sophie to come into my home and clean it all up. Don't get me wrong, maybe that's the kind of point over that he knows maybe that she's not a threat, but even still. Speaking of the castle itself, because I feel as if the castle was almost like a character in its own right, and that is one of the most iconic set pieces when it comes to Studio Ghibli, you know, you think of the spirit realm with Spirit in a Way, you think of the cat bus, I suppose. The cat bus with my neighborhood, there's a lot of iconic imagery that comes from the set of albums, and one of them of course is the castle from house moving castle, not to reference the substance. Hey, it's a castle from house moving castle, right? I'm read it, but at the same time, I feel as if it's almost a reflection of how himself, and I can't believe I'm saying that his castle actually saves his characterisation in a way, because as I said, when Sophie arrives, this place is an absolute mess, it's a pigsty, it's clearly used by someone who's living like a student almost, you know, it's like he's just throwing this stuff down, he's got a basket of food just right beside an open fire, and he's like, oh yeah, just throw two bits of bacon in there. Yeah, that bacon's not been refrigerated. Yeah, yeah, that's going to give him a nicky tummy, that was all I'm saying. Despite how delicious it looks, come on, food hygiene guys, but yeah, the fact that his house is in complete disarray, that he has got these dials that take him completely different places, which suggests that he is not a very static person, he's a person that's always on the move, he's not someone who wants to settle down as it were, he's slumped into this lifestyle where he's constantly hopping from place to place, he's practically self-harming himself in the sense that he keeps using this magic to transform, and it's having terrible strains on his body. Sophie sees this, and I wish they did explore that a wee bit more, but you can see him coming to terms with it a bit more when they tidy up the house later on, and it is just such a shame obviously that the house, or rather the castle, does crumble by the end, you know, that is quite a sad moment when Councilor gets eaten by the witch, which I hate the witch, which is hate our character, I know you're supposed to hate her, but I just don't understand why you would keep her around considering what she's done to both Sophie, what she was going to do to how old they know she's a threat, yet they keep her around. It was for peculiar, I mean Sophie felt that she needed to be looked after because she was essentially going to be disposed of by Suleiman the bad witch of one of the kingdoms, and so I can understand that. What's quite interesting when I was listening to, or rather when the Wicked Witch of the Waste, we've added it a little bit of an actual word in there, but when she was introduced in the Japanese version, she is voiced by a male voice actor, and I was like, oh, that's an interesting way to go with this, because I know it's Lauren Bacal in the English dub, but it's Akihiro Miwa, who is a famous drag queen in Japan, and so they went for that kind of element of it, instead of it being a large, scary woman and having the voice of that, they've gone for much more of like a drag queen, like an Ursula from Little Mermaid kind of character. Yeah, that was quite interesting, actually. Even in the English dub, I do think her voice actress was really well done, but again, at the same time, that's probably the biggest snippet of that, why would you keep this woman around? She's literally going to kill you all, but she never does by the end of it. Sophie's character's quite interesting, though I have to say in the way that she ties into house character arc, because as we said, she almost becomes this stabilising force in his life, and you know, she gets very upset with them, because he has a meltdown, then she has a meltdown, and it does feel like two teenagers having lovers tiff almost. Yeah, a little quarrel. Yeah, like, oh, I'm not beautiful, and it's like, no, I'm extra not beautiful. I've never been beautiful, how dare you say you're not beautiful? How dare you son of a bitch? Oh my god, actually it reminds me of that old meme, you know, the five of her. It's like, baby, do you love me forever? And she said no. And yet, the punchline is she loved them five of her, but it's too late. Anyway, masterful writing her side, another Miyazaki concert. Poptarks aside. Poptarks aside, that's another brilliant one, but it is interesting to see how, although she has, as you said, just quite plain, but she becomes this absolutely stabilising force in his life, even working after the young boy there as well, which turns out he's 15 years old in the book, which is another fact I learned really, really peculiar, but at the same time, she's trying to keep everything together. But what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, it is interesting seeing how each of the characters kind of tie into each other in Sophie's kind of relationship with Howl, with Markle, the young boy, with Kalsafer, and with the castle itself that's powered by Kalsafer. When Howl asks her to go meet the king and tell him that, like, oh, Howl's been a bad boy, and he's not going to get to fight in your war. And she's like, oh, okay. I would have been like, why are you saying yes to this? Why are you agreeing to go and do that? She's very easily swayed to do stuff for Howl, it seems. I mean, especially after what happens to the witch of the waist to when she gets lightning bulbs. Yeah, she gets lightning bulbs, it's like a moth's worst nightmare where it's just a giant bulb that takes away our magic and everything. It's quite horrific. It's very scary. Yeah, because it completely takes away our power, so she goes from looking in again, not as youthful and energetic as she is to... Now that she was very energetic before, she was trying to get those stairs as the most disgusting animation you've ever seen. In a good way, but it was rancid. It made me want to sign up to the jump. I'm not going to lie to you. Much has somehow been severely larking on. There's been some times we've been going up the university steps back in the day where I felt like that. Oh yeah, when you're just climbing, it's like, how many steps do we have left? You just started. We just started, you're like, it's like, there's like when Howl was climbing the kill horn, and he has used up like five oxygen tanks and looks, and he's only like 10 feet up. Yeah, I honestly don't think there's a character in this that, again, other than the witch of the waist, as I said, but I don't think there's any character where I would say that they don't fit into the world of Howl's moving castle. You know, obviously you've got Howl, you've got Sophie, you've got the other denizens as a winner of the castle, by that I mean, Couse of a Remarko. Oh, and turn up man, kind of. Justin. Justin, Justin, turn up. Justin time. Turns out like Prince turned up as it were, but I do think there are a lot of interesting things that they do with this problem. Like again, as I said, with the ideas behinds self-realisation about getting that sense of confidence back, because it was something that friend of the channel with Sarah Martha pointed out that this could have easily just been very much a stereotypical cliche love story between the two, you know, could still get me wrong. She does worry about Howl, but at the same time, you know, she's her own person, she has her own ideas, her own prerogative as it were. She just says she loves him very quickly. Well, yeah, okay, there is that one thing, but I feel as if that's more to do with the pacing on this problem. Is that when she goes down the Bartoll thing, which just his face and I've got a feathers? Yeah, she's like, "But I love you." You don't really know him. Does any point does he reciprocate that? Does he say he loves her? This is going to be a very awkward conversation in the morning for the mist. It's like, "I love you. I like you as a friend." Are you his hands so looser? Yeah, no, that is a fair point. Yeah, I think that comes from the characterisation of him as, and again, this isn't something we've really seen the film, that he's a somewhat womaniser, I want to say. People know him as this enigmatic yet charismatic wizard/more-look, love you want to call him. As I said, it's kind of it's a double-edged sword, because I do like the fact that Sophie is doing her own thing, but then at the same time, as she said, there's very much that kind of right. We've got to keep the story moving along, because Miyazaki wants to get to the anti-war bit. It's like, "Oh, look, it's a city being bombed." And it's like, "Yeah, we know that's bad." Miyazaki, we did watch. But either the Fireflies, you know, you don't have to tell us every film that is bad. You get, again, that's a clash. But are there any particular things you want to touch on in relation to the themes in this film? I think we kind of touched on them. It's the just overarching kind of war that Miyazaki loves to kind of insert into his movies, and it was so set in a kind of a militarized setting, really. You had the military parades, the soldiers who were definitely cornering Sophie at the start, and were really dodgy. And I was like, "They're harmless." And I'm like, "Are they?" That whole kind of scene seemed like it was taking quite a dark turn. Yeah, it's a bit like Gandalf turned around and saying, "Oh yeah, that's Boudog's harmless to a robot, dude, what the hell?" It was like Gandalf saying like, "Oh yeah, that's Gollum. He's falling around a little scamp. He might try and kill you and take the ring. Should we do anything about it?" No. Oh my god, it is, isn't it? Oh my, I don't like that. Again, there's a lot of dark elements to the film, but at the same time, it never really lingers on them too much, and I'm not saying that it needs to linger on them, because obviously, you know, it's still a family film as it were, so heavily rated in fantasy and whatnot. But yeah, no, they're total again, what do you mean there? I didn't like, yeah, those weird magicians that were black people, they kept booping out of the plane. Yeah, those were weird. How many magicians do you have? Because they seem to be going through those at pretty regular rate. Yeah, because were they not supposed to be wizards and things that helped out the kingdoms and then they transformed into those creatures? Yeah, and so the whole idea was that they're probably going to be stuck as those creatures, and they can't sort of transform back into human form. How can mostly be able to do, and sometimes struggle with, and it's the whole thing about if he does it too often, then he'll be stuck like that forever. That and the fact that they wore hats. I did think the hats were an odd one. They looked like, you know, pal world when they made a Zubat. Yep. They looked like pal world Zubats, or like yo-geo Zubats. But as a kind of closing point, are there any other things that you would like to touch on? No, I just want to say to anyone who's not seen How's Moving Castle, I do recommend you give it a watch. Hopefully what you've heard us speak about hasn't completely spoiled the movie for you, and you're able to watch and appreciate it for what it is. There's certainly a lot to appreciate about this movie. We have touched on a lot of the really kind of fantastic points of it. It's animation, it's music score, and just how whimsical the story is, and I think that that's something you should really look forward to watching if you really want to give this a chance. No, I completely agree with that. I think it was for though we've been slightly negative in certain aspects, like as I said, with the plot, with the pacing, with certain elements and choices to do with the plot and things like that. I mean, there are a couple of very weird things if you really think about it. But on the outside, this is a film that is so iconic that to this day, especially outside of the anime sphere, because usually when you look at studio Ghibli, chances are they're going to go to something like my neighbor Totoro, or I mean, spit it away. It's kind of touch and go for that one, but how old's moving castle is definitely iconic, and even today I was watching a Simpsons episode where Homer has this hallucination where him and another Japanese person end up. I think he drinks sake or something like that, and they end up seeing Springfield as a studio Ghibli film. So you know you've got the cat bus and everything, and then the quickie mark turns into the moving castle and things, which I thought was quite funny, but at the same time it was interesting to see that we can do even more mainstream shows and things like that. So I think regard to a solve whether or not you say, oh, this doesn't hold up or maybe this holds up better. The fact of the matter is this is just such an iconic film, and as we said before, the animation is gorgeous, even if you just want a film that is a visual feast, just watch this film. It is just so well done in that regard. Characters are very interesting as we said as well. Again, I think it depends on the kind of person I would introduce this film to. I wouldn't say that I would introduce this film to first-time anime fans, if they've not seen anything to do with anime, like I think there's definitely a kind of border. I don't think it's wrong to recommend this film, but I think there's some elements that you might think, oh, why did they say this, why did they say that? But what I love to say is the fact that in the including our absolutely lovely listeners, the fact that they love this film, the fact that it still holds up today. And honestly, it is just incredible that even 20 years old, we have so much to say about this film. And yeah, you're still the next 20 when we're going to talk about it again. But no jokes aside. First of all, I want to give a huge thank you to all of our amazing Pando loading listeners who voted for this film for this video. Thank you all so much. It's honestly such a great time doing these fan requested episodes. But more importantly, thank you, Andrew, for going back, watching this film. And yeah, enjoying it. I hope. Yeah, thank you so much for giving me a reason to actually watch this in the first time. It's been a long time coming that I've got around to watching the movie and I'm glad that I did and I was able to speak about it with you. Hopefully, what we've said has been interesting and people have been entertained and enjoyed it. And yeah, thank you so much to the listeners for voting for this episode. And we're looking forward to doing the next voted episode, which I believe is The Cat in the Hat. Hmm, I didn't sign off on this. I mean, to be fair, The Cat in the Hat wouldn't be the wash out. The gears are turning on Satsanami's moving castle. Well, see, you say that, but I will post back member look from the near nostalgic podcast and pretty sure he covered it. And I feel like women do to get his advice to be like, how do we make it through this film without wanting to end the podcast? Yeah, that is indeed an episode for another day. But before we wrap up, where can these love our listeners find your content, Andrew? The lovely panel Laurie listeners can find me on further episodes of Chatsanami. I've been on lots of episodes recently, including Star Wars Month, which just recently concluded. And also, you can find me on Twitter at Green Shield 95, or you can also find me on our other podcast series Stop, Drop and Roll Initiative, a D&D Let's Play podcast where we are joined by myself, Satsanami, Robotic Battle Toaster, and Martin McAllister. So please do check out Stop Drop and Roll Initiative for all good podcasts to found at SDRIPod on Twitter, or X. And if you want to check out past episodes from ourselves, including our fantastic Star Wars Month that we did last month, as well as other anime episodes, not forgetting our sub series of course Chatsanami, you can of course check it out on our website, Chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I want to thank our amazing Pantolorian Patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster in Sonya. Thank you so much as always for supporting the show. And if you too would like to become a Pantolorian Patron for this, let us a pound a month, then you can of course sign up at patreon.com/chatsanami. We have a wealth of different bonus content for yourselves, from early access and exclusive episodes to blippers and outtakes, and even some streaming vods, so yeah, be sure not to miss out on that. For as little as one pound a month? One pound a month, would you believe that? Oh, you're practically losing money by not subscribing to the Patreon at patreon.com/chatsanami. I mean, what would you rather use one pound for? Would you use it to hire out a troll way to do your shopping, or would you rather subscribe to the Chatsanami Patreon at patreon.com/chatsanami? That's the thing. A pound right now, I think, is like $1.50 in like US, or similar in Canadian. What can you actually buy for that these days? So I'll tell you what you can buy for it. Several hours of exclusive content, and you get the latest episodes one week out of time. So do head on over to the Patreon and check it out. And yeah, of course, this podcast is a proud member of the Podpack Collective, a absolutely amazing group of podcasters who promote post-opity within the indie podcast and community. If you want further information on other members of the group, as well as the content that we put out, then please feel free to check out the link in the show notes. But until next time, thank you all so, so much for listening. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, please don't turn the dial to black, because I really don't want to go to Wales. Cardiff Ahoy!
