Clownfish TV: Audio Edition
WEBTOON Still Isn’t Making a Profit?!
Digital comics giant WEBTOON is going public, but in the SEC filings we found out that... the company isn’t profitable. They lose over $100 million a year. It’s obvious that WEBTOON is trying to sell projects to Hollywood. Will they be the next big thing, or the next IDW Publishing? ➡️ Tip Jar and Fan Support: http://ClownfishSupport.com ➡️ Official Merch Store: http://ShopClownfish.com ➡️ Official Website: http://ClownfishTV.com ➡️ Audio Edition: https://open.spotify.com/show/6qJc5C6OkQkaZnGCeuVOD1 About Us: Clownfish TV is an independent, opinionated news and commentary channel that covers Entertainment and Tech from a consumer’s point of view. We talk about Gaming, Comics, Anime, TV, Movies, Animation and more. Hosted by Kneon and Geeky Sparkles. Disclaimer: This series is produced by Clownfish Studios and WebReef Media, and is part of ClownfishTV.com. Opinions expressed by our contributors do not necessarily reflect the views of our guests, affiliates, sponsors, or advertisers. ClownfishTV.com is an unofficial news source and has no connection to any company that we may cover. This channel and website and the content made available through this site are for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. These so-called “fair uses” are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. #Streaming #Hollywood #WEBTOON #Comics #News #Commentary #Reaction #Podcast #Comedy #Entertainment #Hollywood #PopCulture #Tech
Is your vehicle stopping like it should? Does it squeal or grind when you break? Don't miss out on summer break deals at O'Reilly Auto Parts. ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ O'Reilly Auto Parts ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ Hey guys, this is the audio edition of Clownfish TV. If you guys are unfamiliar with Clownfish TV, please check out the video versions of these episodes on the Clownfish TV YouTube channel and also on the Clownfish Gaming YouTube channel. Please subscribe for more podcast. Check out D-Res, that's our other podcast. The episode will begin in a couple of seconds. Thanks for listening. (upbeat music) Hey guys, welcome back to Clownfish TV. This is Neon. I am here with Geeky Sparkles. - Hello. - And we're gonna do a very rare comic video. We're gonna talk about WebTune and it looks like WebTune might be hard up for cash. They're going public. - Yeah. - I think this is gonna be worse than BuzzFeed. - I think this is gonna be worse than BuzzFeed. - I don't know guys, I could be wrong, but I'm like, I'm looking at this. I'm like, I don't know what you have exactly to offer because they don't have a lot of their own IP, right? They just publish other people's stuff. - Well they had those weird deals we were talking about, but they're trying to court Hollywood, which is what we've been telling you. - But Hollywood's cutting back on streaming shows. So it's like, this is a really bad time. And I think what's going on, just this is just my personal opinion, is that usually when these companies, these tech companies start up. And this was considered a startup for years. They have five or 10 years to find their footing. And this is what the plan is gonna be. And I think we're coming up on like the 10 year anniversary of WebTune coming to the US. And they're probably like, okay, you gotta start making some money now guys. And their revenue is actually down. And as it turns out, according to SEC filings, they're bleeding hundreds of millions of dollars a year. So- - I don't think getting, I don't know. - Plus I don't think people really, like I said, BuzzFeed didn't do well. And people knew what that was. Most people don't know WebTune. A lot of people do know WebTune. A lot of people read WebTunes. But I think you're running the middle person with no BuzzFeed before WebTunes. And BuzzFeed at least had like their, you know, kitchenware, the Tacey and her sex toys. - Hot ones was that, is that interesting? - I don't remember they had to see us. - Sex toys, Tacey is not the sex toy. Hot ones is not the sex toy line. - No. - It was Buzz, that was- - It was awesome. Was it called Buzz? - No, I don't know what was called. I don't know, for you. Yeah, so like what we'll see how this goes. But this is just like, I'm seeing this more and more. IDW is imploding at this point. Boom Studios is losing people. A lot of these comic book companies, they're not content to publish comics. They wanna get into, you know, big media. They wanna be the next, you know, big thing and start a franchise. And look, I know that's where the money is year after year because the richest people in comics in Hollywood right now are the people that have those deals. And I mean, I can't blame them for that, but that was always the end game with WebTune always. It was like they used the Western or what was left of the Western Webcomics scene as a step stool to, you know, push their platform. And then once everybody migrated over there, then these deals started getting worse and worse and they started taking money away from creators. They weren't paying them as much. And here it turns out they're actually paying the creators more than the creators are bringing in, which I kind of wondered about. Now we know this is the case. So let's talk about this. Before we get into it any further, please subscribe for more pop culture news, views, rants. Guys, you get woo-hoo if you do. And so help me God. I'm gonna get an email from WebTune right after we launch this video. - He's always down. - Every time we talk about WebTune, hi guys. How you doing? Every time we talk about WebTune, we get an email from their publicity department. Like you need to correct this. I'm like, it's video, it's video. These are our opinions. It's take it, take it to leave it, but we're not on your media list, right? So we've talked about WebTune a couple of times. More recently, we've been talking about their deals and a lot of creators having concerns about their, their original deals. And we did have shadow binders backed up on WebTune. Pretty much like a year or so after it, after it came out here in the US. And at that point, they were giving you money in Patreon. That's what they're doing. They're giving you ad revenue and then they're giving you money in Patreon. We usually made about $1,000, $1,500 a month or something like that, which isn't bad for reruns. I mean, stuff was already done. At that point, we were actually making more money off of it on WebTune than we were on the website because the ad rates were down. But, you know, it was just one of those things where it wasn't really sustainable. And, you know, then we heard that the deals got worse and worse for people as time went on and then they started to want more and more rights. And so a lot of, a lot of younger creators are like, yeah, I'm not even gonna do, I'm not even gonna do WebTune 'cause they keep looking for the next lower Olympus. And I think because lower Olympus did so well, they've kind of tightened their grip on it. But yeah, so this is, this is what's going on. They went public. So we'll talk about that first. And then I gotta get, I gotta get that tip to the beat. They actually have several stories on WebTune 'cause nobody else cares. - Except for us. - Except for us, you know. So we'll talk about, 'cause really, I mean, this is, you know, every time everybody talks about comics or all talking about manga, they're talking about Marvel and DC, but they're not paying attention to WebTune and, you know, the kids, the kids, the young-ins, they're reading WebTune, a lot of them. - A lot of them aren't. I know our daughter reads WebTunes all the time. - Yeah. - So that is, that is Web Comics. That is comics, just comics in general for a lot of people. So yeah, they went public. Well, Wall Street keeps scrolling. They have a target of raising $315 million and they have their own stock ticker, WBTN. - Yeah, I haven't pulled up actually. It's currently at $22.83. It's down from when it, you know, it started and then it went up to 24.97 and now it's starting to go down the level. - I think it's gonna go down pretty quick. I, again, I personally do not, I don't see what they have long-term. They have a platform, but so do Buzzfeed. They have a lot of eyeballs, so Buzzfeed, but they haven't-- - Oh, yeah, because it's gonna go the way of IDW because they're trying to quarter Hollywood. - Yes. - And then we've told you. The sense of the beginning, that's what the plan has been. We have, how many times we talked about it, Tim, we've told you this. They were trying to put people in place to try to get Hollywood deals. That's what they've been trying to do this whole time, and that's why I think they're gonna go, they're gonna go for again. And that's why you've got BlackRock, I think, investing in it and everything else. - Yeah, wow, yeah, that could definitely go sideways. - Oh. - But if you start seeing, if you start seeing a shift in the content, that would probably be BlackRock, but yeah, they had a big event dubbed a tune square. - To be fair, they started out between 18 and 21, so it is above what they started at, so there's that. - For now, but so was Buzzfeed, Buzzfeed the first week or so, and then it just dropped off a cliff. - Yeah, so we'll see how it goes. - And at this point, like these tech companies, they're just not hot anymore. I think they're about five years too late. Again, I could be wrong, I could be wrong. I mean, this is a weird thing. To see every time a comic book company has gone public, it's wound up being a financial disaster. It has, because it's just, I don't know. I don't know. What we'll see. So the company is valued at $2.7 billion. - It's owned by a neighbor, which, you know, that's how they fund themselves. - Right. - It's like that money 'cause it's a neighbor. Neighbors like our Google. - Yeah, pretty much. And then Tokyo-based LY Corp owns another 25%. The company is already well known, the US for its popular web tune content. Other businesses include Wine, Manga, and they bought Wattpad. - Yeah. - Again, to turn it into movies, movie pitches. And they'll probably, honestly, I could totally see them just, just noping out and be like, "Yeah, we're just gonna sell Wattpad to open AI and just train, train open AI to write more fans." - What a surprise, man. - As we mentioned before, the plan to go public has been the works for a while. Yeah, it started back in 2021. Investors having gone nuts for web tunes offering and that loss of $145 million last year is a bit of a buzzkill. That's actually not good at all. There's a whole, another article written about it on the beat by Hemberto Sabadro. But, and he had to be corrected. I'm sure he probably got the email from web tune. Yes, I'm not kidding, every time, every time. We've done a video about web tune. We've gotten an email from web tune. And it's amazing because the entire time we were with web tune, getting paid by web tune, we couldn't get a human to save our lives. - No, we kept trying to talk to people and know whatever our answer is. - No, we didn't answer our emails. - You couldn't get a hold of anybody. - But, you grow a YouTube channel, almost a half a million subs, and you say a negative thing or two about them, and you get an email within like an hour. It's amazing how that works. That's what it takes, but whatever. So, I'm sure, I'm sure Hemberto got an email. But, yeah, it's following the initial SEC filing, confirming plans for their IPO. It turns out that they're not doing very well. According to the update, filing the average annual salary. So, here we go. - That's interesting. - This is interesting, okay? - This is, yes. - This is what I want to know. - According to the filing, the average annual salary for professional creators on web tunes around 48,000, with a top 100 earning a million dollars annually. - Okay, well, there you go. That's actually pretty good. - There you go. - There you go, that one, that one. - That's not bad. So, I'm guessing we're talking probably the Korean... - Well, yeah, I don't know. A lot of those ones, neighboring that, they do take a turn into shows ever. And a lot of the K-dramas are based on web tunes. - The level of financial support represents part of the platform's commitment to supporting creators, which allows many to turn their passion into a career. However, these figures alone don't tell the whole story. So, sounds good, like, wow, some of their creators are making pretty good money. - It's like the average. - The average. And you gotta realize there are people probably only making... - You're saying that's the average, with the top 100 getting one million. - And how many... - But that would be averaged in. So, you have, for all of you, making a million, and then the average is 48, which means there's a lot of people making a way less. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - To get an average that way. - Some of them have two networks. - Yep, some of the web tunes numbers are surprising, given the success of the platform, 170 million monthly active users. The investment website seeking alpha broke some of those down for instance, despite all those readers, the company is not profitable. - Oh, shocker, color me surprised. (laughing) - 2023, it lost $145 million on revenue of $1.28 billion. These numbers were better than 2022's though. So, things are improving. - So, a couple of years, maybe profitable. - Well, 'cause what's going on now is there, they're basically asking creators to shake, well, one, the deals are crappier, right? We know the deals are crappier, and they're asking creators to shake their audiences down for support now too. - Well, they're like, oh, they can pay out a cumulative $2.8 billion, yeah, over six years. - Yes, underscoring the platform's ability to generate revenue from the vast audience's willingness to support content, creators, they love it. They also shed light on user engagement with an average of 30 minutes on the platform daily. Readers are deeply immersed and actively invested in the stories they offer. - Yeah, there's a lot of really good stuff over there. I'm not gonna say there isn't, 'cause there really is. - They said platforms reach as global over 170 million users leaving approximately 1 million comments each month. - It's a vibrant interactive community. That's the one thing I've always said about WebTune was the community was great. I mean, the people were very engaged, they were very nice. When you wanted to throw the talent, they were always ones that kept it motivated. We have said that several times. But that's true, but then I'm also like, but WebTune also is trying to leverage Hollywood and making these deals, and the deals are questionable. And we're back to this told that they're going public. And why are they? - They're going public 'cause they need money. I think, I think neighbor probably said, hey, you got 10 years, and in that time, you're gonna have to find a way to be profitable. And you're not profitable. I mean, at this point, like a lot of these tech companies are propped up, a lot of these creator focused for content companies, like Twitch and Amazon, right? Twitch couldn't survive on its own. Twitch needs Amazon because it's not making up money to realistically survive on its own. And it's gonna be the same with WebTune. Like, yeah, they can go public with it. But if it's not for, you know, neighbor bankrolling it, which again, neighbors like the Korean equivalent of Google, it's, I think they're gonna crash and burn. I mean, I, again, I could be wrong. I could be, but I'm looking at this like, this is really dicey, especially since you're losing money. And you've been doing this for 10, 12, well, at least 10 years over here. And how long overseas? And you're still not profitable. And it sounds to me like they're showing out more money to secure these creators hoping for these Hollywood deals in the long, long run. - Well, I think part of the reason that they're, they're getting these people interested is this next part. 75% of WebTune readers belong to Gen Z and everybody's trying to land Gen Z, like they're like these shows and stuff are trying to appeal to the Gen Z market. So they're probably gonna leverage this to Hollywood. Like Gen Z loves this stuff and they're all trying to get it on the Gen Z and Gen Z buys things. So they're also saying the paid content, what they require users to pay to unlock latest chapters. Okay, so what they do is you can read so much for free, but if you wanna read the newest stuff, you have to pay for it. A lot of places do that now. And that's 80.2% of WebTune's revenue is people paying to unlock chapters early. - Yes. - But the Gen Z is paying it. So I think the reason people are interested, the reason they're getting people backing it is because they have a huge amount of Gen Z people watching it, like TikTok. And I think they're trying to think, well, if we take this stuff and we turn this into shows, 'cause they're all trying to crack that market, this will give Disney and Warner Brothers and stuff. Who wants to buy this crap access to Gen Z audiences? - Hey there, fellow kids. - That's what it sounds like. - I mean, yeah, let's be honest. I mean, some of the most popular K-dramas out there were based on WebTunes too, so. You know, so I mean, it's not a bad strategy, but again, it's like who owns what? Because if the creators own the content and WebTune is just the platform. - That's true. It's a platform. - It's a platform that doesn't own anything. - No, and that's why there are new deals, I think, are so shitty, at least from what we've seen, the newer deals are shitty, because I think they have to own something. So, you know, they're locking creators in these very one-sided deals. Now, if you're making millions of dollars a year and you couldn't have possibly done that yourself, and they're making millions of dollars a year, and everybody's happy, then I guess that's okay, but a lot of people were not comfortable with the terms of those contracts. Yeah, and they bring that up. They said, well, all the numbers sound amazing, and we'll likely convince investors to jump on the IPO. One can't ignore WebTune's checkered history of creator treatment, as at the same time, the platform patts itself on the back for paying out a salary for established creators, lucky enough to get picked for its exclusive programs. The platform does have issues with overall creator treatment and fairness, such as the recent incident where super likes were nearly forced on canvas users at the expense of Patreon support, as well as multiple incidents with past creators, regarding it has a long sense, regarding limiting creator promotion of titles where they did not hold physical publishing rights themselves. That, yeah, they basically got lucky, I think, a couple of times with a couple of things like Lore Olympus, and then they decided going forward, they were gonna lock people in to make sure that they were making money, and that's probably why, 'cause they wanna be able to go to the investors, be like, oh, look, we got all these creators locked in, and we're gonna be doing all these deals, and we're gonna make money someday, but that was the thought process that IEW had, that was the thought process boom studios had. We're just gonna create ideas. - To be fair, WebTune, one has a more global audience. WebTune also has a huge amount of Gen Zs, which are Hollywood's after, and they have a lot of access to IP, which would be interested, interest to Hollywood and investors as well, and I think they have more so than IDW would have had, or boom would have had, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - 'Cause they're like, they are a global market, they have Gen Z, and they have a shit ton of IP that could be, if you get the creators to sign it over, it could be a good thing. - Yeah, if you get the creators signed over. - Yes, that's the caveat, but I'm even more leery about the contracts now, 'cause I feel like we'll look at some stuff in. - Yeah, I would, I would too, so. - I would not sign anything with WebTune until you have a lawyer look at it. I'm not saying that they're gonna do something bad, I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying, given past behavior, given where they're headed, I would definitely have an attorney look over any contracts that you get from WebTunes. - Yeah, so there you go guys, WebTune going public, this feels like they pretty much hit the ceiling. I think they've-- - I think interest to see how it goes though. - I can be wrong, I'm not getting a real good feeling about it, I can be wrong though. Maybe they'll just, they'll try to sell it off to some other bigger tech company, spin it off from neighbor, who knows, who knows. - I don't know, I just think that they're just trying to land deals with it, but on the flip side, they have a lot of stuff. - Paramount can't even keep it together. You know what I'm saying? This is a really bad time to go public, I think, with entertainment. - I get that, but here's the thing about WebTunes that might work to their advantage, the Gen Z thing, because it's like, people are watching, what are people doing? They aren't watching the streaming shows, they aren't watching the movies or whatever, but they are watching YouTube, they are watching TikTok, they're reading WebTunes. Gen Z are usually on TikTok or WebTunes and things like that. So, and those kids will buy stuff. So I'm like, isn't really that bad of an idea because the market they are trying to get is right there. And instead of trying to move them, I mean, they might try to move them by trying to make shows or movies based on the IP, and that way it gets them to watch the streaming services or the films, but if they keep them where they're at, and they just find ways to leverage that for money, that might work to their advantage. It might work. - Well, we'll see. - We'll see what happens, it might work. - I'm sure we'll get an email. - Gen Z is the one thing we keep seeing over and over and all these articles at Hollywood's trying to get and can't get. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm curious to see where this goes. - All right, so we're gonna wrap this up. - Yes. - Can't wait to, like I said, get our email to correct us. - Let's we'll ignore. - On our assessment, we'll just ignore it. - You can talk to us lots of times before we never do, so do that. - Yeah, I don't care. We're gonna wrap it up, please subscribe. We'll talk later. - Bye. (upbeat music) - Thanks again for listening. More news and videos are available on our website at www.clownfishtv.com and on our YouTube channel, ClownfishTV. You can buy official merchandise, clownfish comic books and more at shopclownfish.com. If you like this show, please consider subscribing and leaving us a positive review on iTunes and other podcast platforms. If you're looking to help support this show financially, go to clownfishsupport.com. If you'd like to sponsor an episode of this show, send us an email at business@webrief.io. This podcast is a production of Clownfish Studios LLC and webrief media proudly made in Pittsburgh, USA. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]