Seth interviews Todd Dodge and Norma Dodge, brother and mom of founder Steve Dodge.
Disc Golf Daily
A DGPT History - Todd and Norma Dodge - S0E2
(upbeat music) - Happy Saturday, everyone, and welcome to Disc Golf Daily on the Weekends, a DGPT history. This is episode two, and in episode two, I interview Norma Dodge and Todd Dodge, Steve Dodge's mother and brother. We dive into what made Steve who he is today, and a little bit of how they interacted with the tour throughout not just the start of the tour, but as the tour progressed as well. So you'll find that at times the audio might cut in and out because of some bad connections, but overall, this should be a great interview. Hope you enjoy getting to learn a little bit more about who Steve was as a person, and really what sort of led him to be the person that it took to create the Disc Golf Pro Tour. Enjoy. - Great, so today we have Norma and Todd Dodge here, Norma being as introduced, Steve's mother, and then Todd being Steve's brother, and really excited to have them here. And just like we do with all of our guests on the podcast, I'd love to hear sort of how each of you were introduced to Disc Golf and how you either got invested into playing Disc Golf or maybe watching Disc Golf and what that looks like for you. - Well, I started playing in about 2010 when I moved to Leicester, I lived across the street from Maple Hill, and Steve kind of showed me the rope, but not a whole lot. I spent time playing with Sue Streeter, and we played weekly for two or three years there, I think. And so she was the one who really gave me a lot of tips early on, but I was hooked from the first time I threw a disc and just realized that this is something that I could do even at my advanced age, was I could walk in the woods and I could throw a thing. So that's what got me started. - Yeah, so when you first picked it up, was it because the course was right there? Was it because of Miss Streeter? Was it because of Steve already playing? What was it really that gave you sort of that interest? - Well, I would never have been interested if Steve hadn't been invested in it. But Sue was the one who kind of encouraged me to keep playing. She wanted to play on a regular basis and we really didn't know too many women who were playing at that point. So we found each other and it was a good find. - Awesome, Todd, how about yourself? - Well, I knew that Steve played Ultimate in college and I think in the 90s is when he started playing and I had no interest in it at all. And probably wasn't until, I didn't start playing until 2016, actually. I think I've still filmed more rounds than I've played, but it's getting close. My first time playing, I think, was at Maple Hill on the old hole number one tee. I think that's a diamonds tee now. And Steve kind of set me up. He gave me a disc and said, "Hey, I think you can clear the pond with this." And I was like, "Oh, easy." And not so much. So that was my introduction to disc golf. And I think that was around 2003. So it took another 10 years before I actually started playing. - Okay. And so you mentioned something that I think actually is a great segue, which is filming more rounds of disc golf than played. So you threw your first disc in '03, you started really playing in 2016. When was it that you started filming disc golf and what was it like for you back when you started? Like what got you into filming disc golf? - Oh, man, this goes all the way back to the Marshall Street disc golf championship 2004, I think it was. And Steve said, "Hey, we're doing a tournament "and I'd like to get some film of it. "Do you wanna come shoot some film for me?" And I was like, "Sure, I've no idea what I'm doing "and I've no idea what disc golf is, "but yeah, let's give it a go." So I went up there with the Family VHS camcorder, probably weighed 20 pounds with the big old tapes in them and started walking around filming these guys. And that was the birth of that. - Yeah, and so I give us a little bit of information, I guess, as to how that sort of evolved. Because, I mean, you guys started, I guess you said birth of that. I mean, everyone sort of remembers the Marshall Street DVD's and I guess even VHS's maybe before that. What was it like to sort of like start doing that and what sort of pushed you? Maybe it was just Steve. Maybe it was more sort of pushed you to keep filming. - The genesis of the filming, again, was, you know, me and a camcorder walking around, trying to catch holes, figure out how to follow a disc, figure out where to position myself to get as many throws at one time without having to move too much. And I think the first, I'm trying to think, I think they were all DVDs. I don't ever think it came out on VHS, but Steve bragged that they would be out by Christmas, which was a six month turnaround, which was absolutely amazing at that time. And there might have been a few spoilers by that point after six months, but he would build the whole story and take all the tapes, download all of those tapes and then spend hours in front of the screen, editing that, doing the voiceovers for it, just creating the product that came out to be. And then adding in things like the, you know, the lucky dogs or the heartbreakers or the rollaways or the bloopers, just the amount of energy and time that he had to put into all of that, still blows me away considering what he was working with. You know, he didn't have all the fancy editing tools that these guys have now. I mean, it was, you know, like rocks and wood, trying to create a skyscraper versus, you know, having the cranes and the power tools that they have now. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it self-admittedly, a person who just picked up a camera and started filming, you know, not going out there with even the bells and whistles in regards to filming, whether that be the videographer or the equipment. And so, I mean, one of the things that really stood out to me as we got into it, and as you even mentioned, sort of at the beginning with the whole statement of like filming more rounds than playing, is by the time the tour started, or it got time for the tour to start in 2016, I mean, even though it was mostly at one course that you've filmed almost as many disc golf rounds as anyone else in the industry. So, all of that being said, you know, Todd starts playing disc golf 2016, basically when the tour starts, normally you've been playing since 2010. So in, it's my understanding, somewhere around end of 2014, beginning of 2015, Steve has the idea, or at least I shouldn't say has the idea. He had the idea for a little bit, but he begins actually pushing forth the idea of the disc golf pro tour. And as close family members, people that I've even come to know through all of this, you both were very invested, or at least seem invested from the beginning. And so I really wanted to sort of dive in today. The main reason why I wanted to talk to both of you was to get to hear sort of your side of what it was besides just Steve being a close relative, what it was that caused you both to sort of buy into the pro tour and how that progressed. Like, was it like an immediate? Steve said, "Hey, I'm gonna do this." And you both said, "Hey, I'll help." Or was it, did it take him asking a few times? Like, what did that look like? And we can again, start with Norma on this one, and then we'll go to Todd. - Oh goodness, well, I think it just kind of morphed. It started with the tournament at Maple Hill, and I don't know about the rest of the crew that was working early on, but it was just so much fun to be at the tournament, that once I had been to one, I wouldn't dream of missing another one. And I don't think I have in all those years. But Steve has had crazy ideas before, and most of them seem to pan out pretty well. And so if he saw this dream and this opportunity to improve the way tournaments happened and improve the lot of the players, it just made sense, and you just do what you did. And I, of course, was really benefiting from the fact that Steve had two little girls, and he had summers with them, and he kind of needed a little help running tour, the tour, plus of being a dad. And so I kind of filled in where I could, and really, I have some fantastic, wonderful memories. And you were part of those that just a lot of fun, your support was just amazing. You hung in there with him right to the end, and you're still there, and he's not. - Yeah, so you mentioned something that I'm hopeful that we can dive into with stories from both of you, but Steve having crazy ideas before, and then sort of panning out. One of the things that has stood out to me as someone who's gotten to know Steve very well is that he's never short on ideas. And so I was really hoping to hear a little bit about sort of maybe some of those early ideas that you saw, maybe either when he was a kid or a teenager that were, to your point, they did sort of pan out or were successful, and then maybe give some insight into how it came about that Steve felt pretty confident in pushing to make the tour work because of those other experiences. - Well, I think early on, Prawn and Steve were very creative and they would make up games all the time. And I think that kind of led into the disc golf, let's try to make it better idea. When Steve was in high school, I think, and Todd was a freshman in college, their dad lost his job and maybe Steve got his crazy ideas from that, but he decided to open a miniature golf course. And Steve went to the town hall meetings with him and Todd and Steve helped with the building, the physical building of the miniature golf course, and they ran it. And of course, the day that we opened was the day that their dad got a new job. So they had to do that pretty much on their own. And so I think that they learned a lot about business at that point and how to deal with rules and regulations and that kind of thing. So I think those things that helped a lot with Steve and the tour. - Awesome, so I love hearing stories that I haven't heard before, that's a new one for me. So now I'm gonna have lots of questions to get to ask Todd and Steve the next time I'm in person with them about mini golf, but Todd, to- - Oh, well played you a dollar a whole. - To transition over to you, Todd. So what was it sort of in the beginning and what did you sort of take on in the beginning whenever Steve first started the tour and what was it really about, I guess sort of your experiences as his older brother that made you feel like you could support and help with it? - Like my mom said, we've always worked well together. As brothers, you're gonna have a fight every now and then, but I think we got along as good as any brothers did. I think triple disc is what made me realize that he's gonna get an idea and not give up until it's done. And so triple disc was, he was actually in a band called The Peace Dogs. And they were putting out, I'll put the quotation marks, music, and they were trying to get their CDs made. So the channels that he had to go through were not, they weren't good. And he said, I think I can do this better. So literally from scratch, she'd built a CD replicating business called triple disc. Went on to succeed, he built small little business and sold it, and then moved on to his next venture, which was the Pro Tour. I think in 2014 is the first time he talked to me seriously about a Pro Tour. And he was also brought up trying to do a professional ultimate league called Pull, P-U-L. Which I thought was kind of a clever name. Luckily for everybody, except for the ultimate players, he chose to go with the Disc Golf Pro Tour and to give that a go. Growing up, like I said, we got along, we grew up in a very competitive household, to say the least. I was bigger and stronger so I could win at most of the physical games. I'll say all the physical games. So Steve had to think outside the box and be smarter to win all the other games. Or to figure out ways to overcome my physical superiority only because I was older. And so he made himself smarter and he definitely is smarter than me. There's no doubt about that at all. I also think it could be from man, I dropped a big rock on his head and we were little. That maybe that might've knocked some sense into him. And that's a whole other story for another day, but he'll get a kick out of that. - So Todd, when the tour first started in 2016, was it still, I know to an enormous point, she's been at pretty much every iteration of the event in Leicester and Marshall Street and Maple Hill, but were you just sort of on board and around helping then? Did you go to any of the other tour events? I know we spent a lot of time together in 2019 and a little bit in 2018, but were you there and around for the first pro tour events or was it sort of later that you came on in a more active way? - I was there for a few of the pro tour events, again, doing the filming, trying to coordinate with the other camera operators that we got. That was kind of my niche, even though I had three years, four years of experience doing the Marshall Street disc golf course, champions filming. But going there, going to the events, helping him set up, was always a lot more fun than breaking it down because you were always tired. And Steve would sleep in the back of the truck 'cause it was literally, well, you know, she was shooting budget and you got corners everywhere you could gut corners and seeing the sacrifices that he made during the driving himself, packing up the big van by himself, putting up that big old scoreboard. I mean, you know, all those old things that are fond memories for me, but to see where it is now is absolutely amazing. - Yeah, so you spoke about something they're sort of at the beginning that we haven't dove too far into with some of our other interviews, but I think it is important sort of from the beginning to get a little bit of a sense of sort of the big plans that Steve had for the tour, the games and the white became known in the first year as Dodge City when you guys saw sort of like those ideas of all of the extra stuff on top of the tournament that Steve wanted to do was it something that I'm sure at this point it didn't surprise you. I mean, you've known Steve his entire life. So these sorts of ideas are not uncommon for him, but was it something that you looked at and you thought, man, this is like, this is really cool. This is a lot of work. This is not gonna make it past, you know, the second event. Like, what was it sort of those, all those extra things, I guess, that came with the tour that Steve came up with? What were your thoughts about those additions? - Well, you named them all. It's a lot of work. This is very cool. This is crazy. It can't last. I remember Dodge City and I remember being up at Muggler's notch and watching it burn. And that, well, it gives me goosebumps to this day to think about all the work that had gone into the building, the creation, the ideas of that. And there it goes up in flame. And it might as well go up in flames because it had been just ruined by a storm. The pieces all fell apart and collapsed. And it was not good for anything, except a rip roaring fire, nice bonfire. - I'll say that Steve's ideas are always bigger than what he can do by himself. - Yeah. - So when he comes up with all of these amazing, sometimes crazy thoughts, he does it not thinking of how am I gonna get people to help me. He does it going, I'm gonna find a way to get it done. He doesn't worry about the little things-- - He never doubts that it'll get done. - Yeah, he's always looking at the big picture. - Yeah, I have some memories from the first Pro Tour event that I went to where he didn't matter that the tournament had already started. There were still things that he just knew that they were gonna get done, even if it meant that it was getting done on hole two instead of before the round started. So yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. And just for a little bit of reference here, because of the timeline when all of this comes out, the story about Dodge City basically burning at the end of the first season, Steve has already mentioned it in his interview just briefly and now it's been mentioned in this interview. And so we are going to in the next season we're gonna be talking with the whole crew that was out on the road helping set up those events, the touring professionals that helped. And so I definitely look forward to hearing their sort of perspective on the burning of it and how sort of both cathartic and also a little daunting it was that that was sort of how that first season ended. But I think that it's a good sort of full circle moment. And so besides just being supporting family members to the tour, were there any specific roles or specific things that each of you sort of took on back as the tour started or right before it started that people might not know because to the point of most of this interview, you guys have spent most of your time sort of just behind the scenes supporting, but in many ways did a whole lot more than just be cheerleaders for Steve. - Well, I'm thinking back on the times that I was on the tour with Steve and the girls and I was given my least favorite job or it was assumed that I would do my least favorite job which is provide food. And I do not ever like to be relegated to the kitchen get me out of there. But I remember like some of the places that we stayed, people would give us their houses. Like sometimes one time there was a house and there it had a bed, a sofa, a lounge chair, a kitchen table and a few chairs around the table. And the girls and I slept in a room that had no furniture. Steve may have slept in that room. He may have not slept, I have no clue. But those people left us 10 pounds of ground beef. And at that time, eggs were really cheap. And so we did a lot of eggs and spaghetti. But on that same tour, a trip, I was doing a lot of the driving so that Steve could work on the computer while we were going along. Oh, and I did a bit of responding. He was trying to do a fundraiser and have people call in and make donations. And he put me to work responding with the thank yous for all of that. So, oh, in parking, of course, I've always been the (laughs) and so recently, the parker at Maple Hill. And that's always been a lot of fun for me. - Yeah, that was sort of my first memory was meeting you and then the next morning, you being the first person in the parking lot out to help park people. And that's for anyone listening, if you've been to Maple Hill, maybe not necessarily in the past year or two, but if you've been to Maple Hill any before then, you definitely and drove a vehicle. You definitely met Norman there at the gate. She helped make sure that you were getting parked and has always been just sort of a welcoming face there at the course. And then, Todd, how about yourself? When was it, I guess you said you helped sort of with setting up some of the stuff there during the first event, but was there anything else besides that and the coordination of the camera people that you did there in the first year or two? - I've kind of been like the firefighter would be being right next to Steve and something needed done. Yeah, I would go do it. Everything from running out to pick up food for the catering, going to the office max to get the bulletins that needed to be out two hours ago, driving shuttles, putting out the courses, the flags, the banners, packing everything up, putting it back into the trailer. Just whatever needed to be done. I don't know that ever really had a specific job title or a role, once I stopped being a camera operator, but even when I was a camera operator, whatever needed to be done. Steve has one of the first sounds that you want to be a part of where he's going. He goes and he creates this huge wake and you want to follow along. You want to be part of that because you know it's going to work. - Yeah, no, I think that that's a very athletic way to put it. I think that also just in one of the things that I think is sort of maybe hard to communicate for people who know the tour only in its current iteration, but a little bit easier to communicate for people who know where the tour came from, you know, when it, when it first started, it meant that everyone had to sort of do everything. There wasn't like a spot for a person to just do one specific thing. If you were helping with setting up things, you were also helping doing something else, or if you were out, you know, on the course, you were still, to norms, but you're still figuring out how to cook meals there at the end of the day or whatever. And so it's, it really did take a group of people who were willing to be versatile and just sort of follow and try to keep up with Steve in some cases. - Yeah, you're absolutely right there, Seth. And you know, the very first tournaments were big banners saying, "Come watch the world's greatest disc golfers." And there was no charge with literally begging people to come and watch this. And I'll never forget a line. I think it was Terry Miller was in my ear in one of the events. And it was like one of the very first live broadcasts. And you know, we're there trying to get everything set up and stressing out. And Terry's area goes, "Man, this is gonna be great "for the 10s and 10s of people that are watching this." But there's original MS-DGC tournaments. I would call them more of a gathering. It was a lot of people who had, they just wanted to get together. The fact that there was a disc golf tournament going on almost secondary, but not secondary. I mean, you had, obviously you had the crazy haircuts. You had the midnight poker games in the SAP house. You had the pros volunteering and helping out and setting up the course and breaking it down. It was a completely different environment and a mentality where everyone who showed up was there not only to watch the disc golf tournament to make sure that it got done. And everyone was like, "Okay, what do you guys need done? "What can I do to help? "Okay, turn them to starting. "Okay, let's go do that. "You need a spot on this hole? "Let me run down there." It was just, like it was a family. The whole disc golf community was a family at these events. - Yeah, yeah. It's crazy to see how much it's grown since then. I remember, I remember specifically in 2018, us being out at Maple Hill and to take it back to sort of the it being free, but also where you guys are from. That neck of the woods, 2018, I came back after the women's round and was about to eat lunch, but I saw all three of you, Norma, Todd, and Steve out trying to deal with a line of about 30 cars trying to get into the property and realized very quickly that eating lunch probably wasn't the best use of my time and got out there and for the entire break between the end of the FPO round and the beginning of the MPO round, the four of us, plus a few others, were just focused on getting all of the people onto the course, you know? And whether that meant us driving cars to places where we didn't have parking spots yet or taking them to openings, past all one. There was a time where we had a break between T times and I remember Steve and I pushing cars, directing them right across the T pad of hole one to go park between hole one and hole three's T pad. So it's always been sort of to Todd's point, a gathering sort of atmosphere, especially at Maple Hill. I think it's one of the things that really makes that event special on tour. So I think that this was really great. I really appreciate both of you taking some time to give us some insights and the Steve to give us some insights into the early days of the tour. I look forward to, I think I've heard the story about Todd dropping the rock on Steve's head, but I definitely look forward to hearing a whole lot more about mini golf and probably getting my money taken from me by playing mini golf with those two. But I want to thank you both again for being on here today. Is there anything else that you guys want to add before we wrap up? - I think I want to say a reaction that I had last year, I happened to be in on the pre-tournament meeting where all of the LGBT people were there. And I was just amazed that all of these people had a separate job and early on, you and Steve did them. (laughs) It just blew my mind that this has multiplied in such a way that it's just an amazing, an amazing phenomenon. And I do want to say thank you, thank you, Seth. It doesn't mother's heart good to see a loyal supporter in you and to see Todd and Steve working together. I'm just always so happy tournament week because I see all that happening, all the love, all the family stuff. Thank you for documenting it. - Yes, yeah. Yeah, you're welcome. Todd, do you have anything you want to add? - Let's start off by following my mom's co-tails there is that I don't think you give yourself a number of credits for the LGBT being where it is now because without you being there for Steve, they wouldn't be there. And so I think people need to know that. Yes, Steve was the face and he took the abuse and he got the acolytes, but you were the man behind him for all of those years or beside him sitting in that lovely truck, driving down the road. And working with Steve is kind of like watching a high wire act. You can't take your eyes off what's going on. And I want to thank you and everyone else who is there to be there, to be his safety net. Because he's told me he couldn't have done it without the security of knowing that he had a lot of people like you and like my mom to be there to support him no matter what, through those great days to those days when you, we all looked at each other in the truck and said, "Wow, is this the last event?" So thank you for that. - Thank you both for the kind words. I, you know, from my perspective, I really did want to just sort of set out to document what it looks like for all of us. You know, I think that there's, I came in not quite at the beginning, so I don't have all of the same perspectives that you both get to have because you've known Steve his entire life, but other people who also helped out from the beginning. But, but it was a really special time and a really special thing to be a part of. And, and I really appreciate it to, to normal story. I had a similar moment at Jonesboro this year, even in 2024 where we were out. I was there on the first day before the first tea time because I was actually training someone on the event staff to replace me, which was a really great thing to not have to worry about helping, helping in that capacity anymore. But I was there and within within the 30 minutes before the first tea time, I'm Evan, one of the pro-tour employees who's been there since 2020, whenever we hired the first crew of people after the transition, he showed up to check in on us. And I said, Evan, we're good. There's been four people, all of whom are doing jobs that just Steve and I used to do that have already checked in with me this morning. You're the, you're the fifth person who now represent more pro-tour staff than we had in the first four years combined. So it's, it's really been phenomenal to see how everything has changed. And, and I know that, you know, in, in some ways, the tour wouldn't have started without the two of you. Whether you guys want to give yourself credit or not as the, the mother and brother of the man who created it. You know, you guys both had a very important role in making sure that the tour, I guess, came to be because you guys helped mold Steve into who he is today. So, like I said, really appreciate both of you. Thank you so much for, for taking the time out. I think that as we move forward in this project that we're working on, please don't be surprised if we don't have you back to talk specifically about 2019 whenever we get to that point because I think to, to normal story about the, the 10 pounds of ground beef and eggs, there's a lot of really fun stories to come out of 2019 that we can all share with the rest of the world. So thanks again, and I hope you both have a great rest of your day. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thanks again for spending part of your Saturday here with Disc Golf Daily. We hope you enjoyed listening to Todd and Norma as they recounted some great stories of Steve's childhood and really what made him who he is today. As we continue through this series, over the next few weeks, you'll begin to hear from other people involved in the Disc Golf community as they began to rally around Steve in the creation and the planning of the Pro Tour. (upbeat music) Thank you so much for watching. Please like, subscribe, comment and share. It really does help us grow. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)