Hello and welcome to the next page, the podcast of the librarian archives at UN Geneva. I'm Amy Smith and today I'm really delighted to have with me Ellie Hotley. Ellie is a senior Swiss UN youth delegate for 22/24 and she attended the 78th UN General Assembly Third Committee and her priority topics are sustainable cities and communities, digitalisation, reduced inequalities and she has a special focus on gender equality and youth participation and inclusion. In fact, Ellie has been actively involved in advancing youth participation in her home region even before holding the mandate as Swiss UN youth delegate as she co-founded and was co-president for six years of a local youth parliament. So, welcome Ellie. Thank you so much. I'm very delighted to be here as well and excited what we are going to be talking about today. Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about what inspired you to become a youth delegate to the UN for Switzerland. Gladly. I think it was not like one specific moment but it really has been overall again that I've become active from a very young age locally in youth participation and inclusion and I think really liked the wish to see a more sustainable future, a more youth-led future as well and of course, the fascination with what is UN, how does it work, what can actually be achieved within the structures is I think what really made me apply to this mandate at the end. Fantastic. What are the special interests? I mentioned it briefly but tell us a little bit more. I mean, you covered it more or less and I mean, I would say generally I'm interested in most things that just come across my desk because I'm very interested again in the inner workings of the world, of the UN but I think there's definitely areas that I'm drawn to because I just see a lot of challenges there especially for you or just because I've particularly been touched by these things. So again, of course, one is gender equality, just stemming of course also from my own experience in this world as a woman and then of course also digitalization with really like the lack of laws and regulations we have in this space and how it particularly also influences youth as well. Yeah. So you've mentioned about things coming across your desk. Tell us a little bit more about the purpose of the program. I mean, the purpose of the program foremost is of course to, especially on a symbolic level, increase the engagement of youth at UN to really make ourselves seen there and take up a little bit of this space. But at the same time, it is also to raise awareness amongst of course in my case now particularly Swiss youth, 30 United Nations, also for the agenda 2030 as well. And since Switzerland is now a member of the Security Council, that's also a little bit something that we're trying to step up a little bit into that agenda as well to really raise awareness amongst youth. That must be really interesting. So you attended the General Assembly in New York. Have you participated in other conferences? So demand aid is structured in a way, I'm not the only youth delegate as you mentioned in the introduction and demand aid is structured in a way for us now like they're different across all the countries. But in Switzerland, it's it's that each one of us gets to go to one international conference, meaning New York. And apart from that, we are quite free in our mandate and what it entails, like in which conference is it entails. I've attended other ones, but of course, it's always a little bit of a struggle between like personal time and effort. And there are being so many ones that you could attend possibly. I've been quite active, of course, then on the national level as well. I've been, for example, at the International Corporation Forum, that's always hosted by Switzerland, which is not necessarily in a UN context, but that's really a lot of what we do is not necessarily in a UN context. It's related to topics that the UN talks and works a lot on as talks a lot about works a lot on. And of course, things we are generally interested in to make our voice heard. But we've been part also of a few conferences or forums here in Geneva. I mean, for one, we visited Human Rights Council, especially when they had an intervention on youth. And the last time I was here, I was part of the regional sustainable development forum. And that was quite excited because I actually had the chance to end up being part of the Swiss delegation and also hold a statement on behalf of the youth and closing plenary. That's really good. What was the most meaningful part of all of those experiences for you? Oh, I think it's hard to answer. I think maybe I will be better at answering this question in like six months, when I manage over a hell of time to recap. Of course, I mean, the insights that I've gained are extremely valuable. What is the most meaningful is, I think, really to understand that we as youth really have to power for change. And again, it's not only like to make our voice heard and our demands heard, but really also that I think we have a different understanding of what the world is supposed to be like. And to then also like bring this into pre-existing systems and structures and really like a momentum so that they can work for a sustainable future. Absolutely. I know that one of your areas of really deep concern is gender equality and women's rights. Speaking particularly about young women of your generation and girls in the European region, how are the challenges you face unique and what sort of targeted approaches do you think are needed to address these concerns? I think first of all, there's many challenges that we face that are not only unique at the moment to girls, but unique to youth. And I think being young, being part of youth has always been a challenging thing. I think across all generations, because I think there's always a little bit of business divide between the system that currently exists and what youth really sees further future. And yeah, I mean, there's many things that are ought to change but aren't really, and I think we understood this very well, but I think apart from that, of course, something that is of great concern is like this, what I would say, big underbelly off divide between the two genders that we especially see online now with young men being more drawn to not necessarily even right-wing politics, but definitely right-wing views on gender equality, or again, even the stance that gender equality has been achieved, if not over achieved even, which I think is very dangerous because I think it forced us this mindset of a battle instead of collaboration, which I think, for me, gender equality is all about. I was going to ask you a bit about this. We've seen a lot of reports recently, things coming up in the press, the economists, for example, showing about this whitening gap in Western countries on the political views since very divided across the genders. And I was really wondering, do you find that this is very much the case in Switzerland? I do. I have to say as well that I come from a non-academic background from my household as well. My parents are both Swiss, so I think I've had, you know, really the luck to be very integrated in my community, which I think gives you a really good insight and also that the home region where I'm from, the majority of the parliament is right-wing. And also there is a huge youth movement, which, you know, it's like the youth party to the mother party that is right-winged as well. Yeah, and I know a lot of young people, young men and women, but again, mostly men are very young that are very right-wing. And yeah, so I definitely see that and also see that more and more men. Also my age are quite comfortable with voicing their doubts, I would say, about gender equality and if it is still needed or already achieved. And what about the women? What do they think? I think, I mean, again, it's like hard maybe to speak for everyone here, but I mean because we have a lived experience of what it is to be a woman. And I mean, it's also a reporter, of course, like historically and statistically. But again, I think most importantly, I think we know what it feels like to be a woman. So I think there is a little bit less, but I think the doubts can still come in question where you really think, you know, how much of it is actually gender inequality and how much is maybe really that we are made to believe that we don't have equality. I do see that also a bit being a topic online, but I would say like most women are still pro-gender equality. They know they're still a long way to go, but on the other hand, I think a lot of them are still yet quite uncomfortable to call themselves feminists, which I find a little bit concerning because I think being a feminist, at least in my understanding, means to be pro-gender equality, means to be pro-woman's rights, which is also for me human rights as well. So I find it quite concerning that a lot of people disassociate themselves with that term, with that terminology of being a feminist. I think it has quite a negative connotation. I think that is quite concerning which I also think is a little bit also breeding ground of these views that come from the other spectrum. I think that really ultra-feminist, that's very on the other side of the spectrum, can be very easily attacked. You mentioned things circulating online. How do you find that social media is really affecting the views of young people around women's rights? I mean, first of all, I think it is a huge bubble. I think you really get wrapped into this bubble. You get one view only. It's not a discourse, really, and of course, the algorithms are feeding the extremes. They're feeding the extremes, which I think don't really apply to the real world. I think it, again, fostered this great sense of understanding, particularly amongst young men, that they're now, because of gender equality, because the advancement of women, that they now have to step back. So that actually, their part of gender equality is not being realized. So, experience of loss. Yes, I think experience of loss. Yeah, very much so. I think that, you know, a bit like this sense of, "Oh, now we are so pro-women that a woman will get the job over a man just because she's a woman." Yeah, yeah. Do you have any ideas around addressing these issues for your generation? I mean, it's always hard to say this is the one solution, but I think definitely what is needed is a discourse around this. I think that's extremely important, and I think maybe also a little bit what we missed, especially, again, from the feminist movement side to really integrate men more into the discourse from the start. I understand very well that historically it started out as a little bit of an against, which came from both side of the sexes. I think it was because of the context more than of any agenda. I don't think again, the idea of feminists, I don't know, let's say in the 70s or 80s was to fight against men. I think they didn't want collaboration, which just wasn't possible at the time, but I think we've definitely arrived at a point where collaboration is not only possible, but I think it is really, really needed because otherwise we're just seeing another divide, and I think there's so much that comes from gender equality and advancing women that really I think advances men just as much. Quite right. Let's talk a little about multilateralism. That's the aim of this podcast, too. The Secretary-General's report on common agenda highlights the role of youth, and it's a constant concern for us to include youth and work at the UN. From your perspective as a youth delegate, do you think the UN is doing enough to include youth perspectives? Enough is a little bit hard to say because the question there is how would it quantify enough, maybe as well. But I don't think it's enough. There's definitely more need to include youth perspectives, and not only in numbers, but really also in how meaningful that inclusion is. That's obviously a big topic of ours and within the different youth delegate programs. Because now we are there. We have a space now at UN. We get spaces to hold statements, to meet with other delegates, to meet with UN agencies. But the question is really, how can we actually advance UN, and its agenda? What we see for our future, how can that actually be part of the UN? So less is an experience of being at the UN, and more actual participation. Yes, I think more actual participation. I think there, one topic that is, of course, what we discuss a lot is also being part of consultations. Because what I now came to understand within my mandate, what happens at UN, is usually kind of already the finished product, even though there are discussion, even though there is a general assembly. The countries will have advised themselves on which stance to take beforehand. They will have advised with, you know, whomever it may concern, including civil society, which by the way, I think is a great tip here also for maybe other young people listening. If they really want to make themselves more heard within the UN, a great way is also to go over their respective country, over their department of foreign affairs, because most likely their UN section will hold civil society consultations. And yeah, that would really be something for us that would be important to be more included in everything that goes on behind the scenes really as well. What more would you like to see done to address concerns of future generations? I hope I really speak here now on behalf of, you know, my team and UN, you feel it's in general, but you've across the board. One thing, of course, is definitely to future proof resolutions. I think resolutions need to have a stronger focus on the future. Of course, again, one part generally, so you've inclusion, which is also means to achieve that. And I think generally what we are really wishing for overall, what we think we need to have the future we not only envision for ourselves, but I really think that is needed for humanity and for prosperity in every sense for for this planet and for ourselves is to also make the UN system more effective. And of course, that's extremely difficult. We understand that we understand that that's not going to be done from one day to another. And it also doesn't mean that we have to solution. But we definitely know that that something is not like something is going wrong if the UN is failing to really address these huge issues that we're having right now, which is exactly what it was designed for when there's like no common ground found. And of course, like this general way of doing diplomacy, where you always agree on like the least common ground, which of course, I understand from like a strategic perspective or like a practical perspective. But it just doesn't get us where we need to go. You seem to have quite a lot of vision, but I'm quite often struck in conversations with young people by a certain lack of hope, I think in the future. Do you find that to be the case as youth delegate? Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I've experienced it myself many times and I know that it's the same for youth, whether they're active or inactive in any way, because again, if you're inactive, you're probably inactive because you're already hopeless. And if you're active, you just come across so many barriers and where we really see it, the system is not made for the future we need, that I think it can make you quite hopeless. And I think that's really what we experience because we know, we know what we need, like we know what we need for for the future. We know what we need to achieve the agenda 2030. We know all these things, but yet it's not being achieved. And I think that's really a system failure, which is also why, you know, the climate you will always say, no climate change without system change. And I think that is truly the case. I think the system is broken. What are your hopes for the summit of the future that will happen later this year? I mean, what we just discussed now, of course, more youth inclusion to have stronger future proof resolutions, generally to have stronger resolutions and a stronger commitment to the goals. Again, there it's always like a little bit, the divide, once more between what should be and what is. And again, I'm well adverse in what diplomacy means, what a resolution entails that it cannot be binding that the language is more suggesting and also like not really having any specific targets to commit to. But I think that is really sometimes what we still wish for, even though if it's not for scene. But yeah, just for youth to be included more there and then when the summit of the future happens, to be in New York, and also to really be listened to, but also of course already now in the consultation process, we've really tried to push to be part of this. And I mean, there is also a huge credit that goes out to the other UNU of delegates, my code delegates, that are with me, particularly also our Linda, which has been on the podcast as well. She's really done a great deal in trying to get our views included as a team over Switzerland for the summit of the future, but also across the board for youth to be included more for the summit of future. And actually, we've certainly have written a petition, I think it was, to really call for more youth to be included at the summit of the future. Excellent. So I was going to ask you a question. That was one thing you could change, to make a difference. What would you choose to do as a priority? As a priority, I would definitely, or I would, let's say it this way, I would prioritize the UN 2.0, definitely, like a new way of doing multilateralism, because even if we include more youth, which of course is incredibly important, and definitely also what I think helped to get there, but again, if the system isn't changing, and if the system doesn't want to be changed, then nothing is going to change. And so I think we definitely need a new way of doing international relations, doing diplomacy and multilateralism, and I definitely think that UN should be modernized, and I think also should therefore really move into a new understanding of diplomacy and world politics, because we are a global world with global challenges. And I think that UN definitely needs to get stronger, and I think they're also more dynamic, to actually be able to address these issues. Thank you, Ellie. This is really bringing us new perspectives and new hope, I think. I was wondering, finally, if you have anything else you want to add to this, or perhaps even whether you have a book suggestion for us. Oh wow, a book suggestion. I do, in fact, but I have not personally yet read the book. It just has come out and it's hardly available, especially in Switzerland, but I've met the person who wrote it, and she's quite impressive, and she has really dedicated her life to fight for human rights, to fight for a stronger multilateral system because of that as well, but in particularly, of course, her focus was on advancing gender equality, and the book is called "Outspoken, My Fight for Freedom and Human Rights in Afghanistan" by Dr. Sima Sammar, who is also bringing her issues to the UN and really trying to advance gender equality. Ellie, thank you very much for being with us today. Well, thank you so much to you. It was truly a pleasure, and of course, I wish we could talk about this forever. I think there's so much to say, but yeah, I think there will be many more podcast episodes where other people will get the chance to do so, and yeah, thank you so much for having me. [music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
