The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

The Craft of Narrative Journalism with Jody Avirgan

Jodi Avrigan has chosen a rather unusual way to get his art out into the world. He’s the creator of Ask Roulette, an unscripted conversation in which participants ask and answer questions of each other in front of a live audience. In this interview we discuss the craft of narrative journalism, and the creation of Ask Roulette.

Making films in the early days of high school
The parallels between sports teams and creative environments
Applying the storytelling tools of film to radio journalism
The diversity in background and art that influence radio
What some of the best radio journalists have in common
How good creative people are wired and do their work
Why being too comfortable hurts our creativity
A look at trends in the world of podcasting and radio
Why you should be continually experimenting with different ideas
A look at the social dynamics of Ask Roulette
Making New York feel like a smaller place through community

Jody Avrigan is a radio producer at WNYC, Brian Lehrer Show, and a myriad of additional projects. Amidst frequent collaborations with other stations and social media outlets, he also does freelance reporting.

Subscribe for ad-free interviews and bonus episodes https://plus.acast.com/s/the-unmistakable-creative-podcast.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Duration:: 1h 2m
Broadcast on:: 04 Jun 2014
Audio Format:: other

As you probably noticed this month, we're bringing you our "Life of Purpose" series and revisiting some of our most transformative episodes, tune in to explore expert insights and practical strategies on help, performance, and community well-being, all aimed at helping you achieve personal and professional fulfillment. If you sign up for the newsletter, you'll not only get recaps of the key ideas in each interview, but at the end of the series, you'll receive our free "Life of Purpose" ebook. What you have to do is go to unmistakablecreative.com/lifepurpose. I'm Srinney Rao, and this is the Unmistakable Creative Podcast, where I speak with creative entrepreneurs, artists, and other insanely interesting people to hear their stories, learn about their molding moments, tipping points, and spectacular takeoffs. When it comes to weight loss, no two people are the same. That's why Noom builds personalized plans based on your unique psychology and biology. Take Brittany. After years of unsustainable diets, Noom helped her lose 20 pounds and keep it all. I was definitely in a yo-yo cycle for years of just losing weight, gaining weight. And it was exhausting. And Stephanie, she's a former D1 athlete who knew she couldn't out train her diet, and she lost 38 pounds. My relationship to food before Noom was never consistent. And Evan, he can't stand salads, but he still lost 50 pounds with Noom. I never really was a salad guy, that's just not who I am. Even through the pickiness, Noom taught me that building better habits builds a healthier lifestyle. I'm not doing this to get to a number, I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com. Real Noom users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones, and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent, or go to statefarm.com. This Halloween, ghoul all out with Instacart. Whether you're hunting for the perfect costume, eyeing that giant bag of candy, or casting spells with eerie décor, we've got it all in one place. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus, enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Offer valid for a limited time, minimum $10 per order, service fees, other fees, and additional terms apply. Instacart. The store to your door this Halloween. Getting engaged can be stressful. Getting the right ring won't be at bluenile.com. The jewelers at bluenile.com have sparkled down to a science with beautiful lab-grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments. Their lab-grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds and ready to ship to your door. Get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more with code listen@bluenile.com. It's bluenile.com code listen for $50 off. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous to your contracts, they said, "What the f*ck are you talking about? You insane Hollywood f*ck?" So to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. That's $25 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes in detail. Hear that? It could be the sound of your phone dinging every time you sell a product with TikTok ads this holiday season. If you've ever thought about advertising your business on TikTok, now is the time to do it. You can drive more customers to your website, sell products right in the app, and you can even use TikTok's creative tools to easily make content and find creators to help sell your products for you. But you have to start now. So head over to getstarted.tiktok.com/holiday24 and drive more holiday sales today. Hey, Jody, welcome to the unmistakable creative. Thanks for taking the time to join us. And thanks for stumbling across me on the internet and asking me to come on. This is really great. Yeah. Well, you know, speaking of stumbling across you on the internet, the way I found you was actually via the Swell app and, you know, I was browsing podcasts, which I do, and usually I do it for selfish reasons, because I want to see who's advertising on those podcasts. But I stumbled upon this thing called Ask Roulette, and I was listening to it, and I thought, this is really, really weird and cool. And only a completely insane person could have conceived something like this. I need to find out who this person is. And you know, my curiosity naturally led me down the rabbit hole of the internet, eventually to you. So before we get into Ask Roulette, tell us a bit about yourself, your background, your story, and how that eventually led to the formation of this crazy thing, which we will actually get into detail about it. Sure. I live in New York. I'm a radio producer. I work for WMIC, which is the NPR station here in New York. We produce a bunch of shows that people here around the country, like Radio Lab and Studio 360. I work for the local call-in show. Every station in the country has one of these, you know, the local public affairs call-in show. Ours is called the Brian Lehrer Show. It's hosted by a guy named Brian Lehrer, who, you know, I think is the best host in the business. I really do think that. And so I've been on that show for about five years and helped produce that every day. You know, research, write questions. But we're like a really community-oriented show. We talk about national and international politics, but we really try and connect our listeners to the rest of the world and to each other. And some of my favorite moments in the radio that we make are when our listeners are talking to each other. And it feels like we're just kind of greasing the wheels for that and letting that connection happen. That's the kind of radio I like the best. There's a lot of radio that talks down to you and tells you what to think. And I like the kind of radio that lets you sort of explore new ideas and maybe push you out of your comfort zone and connect with others and so forth. This connects to Ask Roulette, which is this idea I had, because it's actually something that we tried initially on the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. We, I'd say this in the most, in the kindest way possible. We sometimes like to treat our listeners and our callers as guinea pigs, sort of, and sort of do weird games with them. And so we'll do like call-ins built around weird questions. We'll try and connect people. We've had sing-alongs on the air where we'll have people all sing a song together, live on the radio. That's the kind of stuff that really gets me going in addition to, you know, interviewing the mayor and senators and so forth. But so this idea of pairing callers with each other, to talk to each other, led to this idea of mine, which we call Radio Roulette, which is where we basically say, if you want to ask a question of another listener, any question whatsoever, call in right now, sort of take a chance to connect with someone, call in. And the one catch is that before you get to ask your question of someone, you have to answer a question first. So what happens is this chain, you get this chain of questions and answers. So a caller calls in, we pair them with someone else, they answer a question from a stranger about really anything, and then they have a little conversation, then they get to turn around and ask a question of a stranger of their own. So we tried this on the radio, completely not knowing what was going to happen. And you know, within the first minute realized there's something here, like this is great. People get it and all these sort of serendipitous connections are happening and there's this really great range of topics and we can talk about some of the different questions that could ask. And I almost immediately had the thought, you know, I think that this could spin off into an actual live event. This could go beyond the radio and actually happen in person. So I sort of started to conceive it and tweak it and make it its own new thing, which turned into this regular live show I host in New York called Ask Roulette, which is basically we called a conversation series in which strangers ask each other questions live on stage. So people come, they come with a question, they want to ask a stranger, they get randomly paired on stage in front of a live audience and they talk to each other. But in that same sort of way, you answer a question from a stranger, then you turn around and ask a question of a stranger. And it started to really work well live and we do it regularly now here at venues around New York. We've gone on the road a little bit and we have a nice little devoted audience. And then the way that you found us was through the podcast, which is, you know, I take the I record the live show and then I break it out into a podcast where I take little chunks of those exchanges and push them to the internet and people from all the world have started to listen. So it's great because it's got this live iteration, which is really nice. And then it's got this sort of podcast life where people can find us too. All right. So a lot of questions. I actually want to get into the journey before the journey. I mean, you mentioned that you've been a radio producer for five years. What I'm really curious about is, you know, what actually led up to that, you know, you know, when you were younger, I mean, has this been, have you been a media creator or somebody who has this just flair for these kinds of things from a very early age, you know, what kinds of influences did you have growing up that ended up putting you on this path? Well, I don't think there's many people in the world who grow up wanting to be public radio producers. There aren't that many like eight year olds who you ask, what do you want to be when you grow up? And they say, no, I don't want to be a fireman. I want to be a public radio producer. But so I was never on that path from an early age, actually was a film person for a long time in college. I made documentary films in high school, I made films with my friends. And I found my way to radio because I actually realized that the sound in my films sucked. It was terrible. And I thought, gosh, radio folks must know something about sound. Let me explore that world, get some tips and I started making radio pieces. And then I realized that I think I like it better. I think it's a better medium. So I started finding my way into radio that way. And then I eventually found my way to WNYC. But in terms of the question you asked about sort of, you know, what kind of motivation do I have going into this? I mean, I really have always liked collaborative projects, you know, even in high school when I was making films, it was as much about doing something with people I respected and people I was friends with. I've played sports my whole life and really think there's a big parallel between being on a sports team and being in a creative, collaborative environment. I've learned lessons for each of those worlds from each other. And I think it's made me better at both of those things. So, you know, I tend to just really like being on a team. And most of the work that I do, I think I like it when it's doing the same sort of thing. You know, it's the work, you do the work together. And then the work itself somehow connects people and creates a sort of team of its own. Like I was describing earlier, the kind of radio that I really like is the kind of radio that connects the audience. So I've always just really liked that process as much as the, you know, final outcome. So let me ask you this, I love that you brought up the film background. I'm very curious, to me there's always this interesting sort of connection between how somebody's previous background or their past influences and shapes, the way they see the world today and the way they do the work that they do. Let me ask you, how has film influenced the way you approach, you know, your creative endeavors in the world of radio and how has it influenced your storytelling abilities. And what have you brought from the world of film to the world that you're in today? I think that film has, you know, for obvious reasons tended to be, you know, think of itself as an art form in a way that for a long time radio did not or a lot of, you know, a lot of people didn't think of radio as something that could be narrative and crafted and really evoke emotion, they thought of it as a sort of mass communication tool. And so I think radio has learned a lot from film and you can see it in, you know, not that these were the first shows to do it, but you know, shows like This American Life and then Generation Later shows like Radio Lab really brought a sort of narrative, highly crafted sense of storytelling and journalism, which I think has a real film DNA to it. So, you know, I studied film deeply, part of that was the aesthetics of it, which, you know, maybe don't translate as much, but certainly the mechanism of crafting a story, of working with emotion, of, you know, hitting emotional points and narrative turns so that you bring the audience along your story, you can apply those tools to journalism and you can apply those tools to radio journalism. So I think back to the films that I love and what they do for me and the radio that I love or some of the radio that I love really evokes that same kind of, you know, has that same kind of emotional texture. Well, I love this term radio journalism and the idea that we're bringing stories in to radio because I think it really, one of the things that I've been seeing and now, you know, I want to talk about trends in radio, but one of the things that I hear over and over again when I talk to people is this sort of notion of creative cross training almost and pulling various influences from every art form or discipline into what they actually do. I mean, you've seen our website. We do a lot of stuff around illustration and I feel like we cross all these different boundaries across all these art forms and I think it's just kind of the way the world is today. And I think it's really, really cool. I think it's given us an ability to collaborate in a way that we never could before. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think you're touching on both a very practical thing about the way that, you know, the media landscape is exploding and fracturing and the need to sort of find audiences in a bunch of different ways. But also, I think your, that notion of being informed by a bunch of different disciplines is just one of radio strengths, actually, what I was saying before about how, you know, radio hasn't had necessarily this legacy of people wanting to be in it from a very young age in this sort of like formal path that people go on. There's more and more of that. But, you know, traditionally say comparing it to say film, there aren't, there isn't this sort of like highly polished sort of level of institutional training for radio that there is for something like film. I think that's a real strength of radio because what you end up happening, what ends up happening is people sort of move sideways into radio from other disciplines, from other backgrounds, from other training, so, you know, you look at a place like WNYC, which is making, I think, some of the best radio there is, and you walk down our hallway and there's, you know, that person has a film background, that person was in local politics for a while, that person worked at a think tank and then hit, you know, 29 and said, you know what, this isn't exactly right for me, I'm going to go sideways into radio, but they still bring that to the discipline. That person lived abroad for all these years. But I think radio has really benefited from that diversity of backgrounds, and certainly on a show like ours, when we're bringing people into the fold, you know, radio experience is really great, but real world experience, a specialized knowledge, and then also just kind of this willingness to draw from a bunch of different disciplines is like, I think, the most important quality and, like I said, it's been the real strength of radio. Yeah, I think it's really, really cool, which I mean, and I love that you brought up the shows at WNYC, which I think it takes me into my next question, you know, we talked a bit about storytelling and all this narrative that comes around storytelling where you end up with shows like This American Life and at Radio Lab, and my question is around sort of the mastery of that craft, right, because it's not that, you know, you don't have sort of the masters of it that come before us to go learn from, for example, if you want to be an NBA basketball player, well, guess what, there's 250 people that have come before you, not that I have any skills whatsoever to be an NBA basketball player, but I'm very curious. When you look at somebody like an Ira Glass or any of these people, the really, really sort of talented people, what do you think it is that leads to sort of the mastery of a craft for them to produce the quality of work that they do and the way that it impacts an audience and the way that it connects with an audience? Well, I'm going to add the world's biggest caveat at the top here and say that, you know, I'm not, I am in no position to speak on behalf of someone like Ira Glass or Jad and Robert from Radio Lab, you know, and the kind of radio I do actually is at the moment is very different, though I have worked on shows like that and done pieces for shows like that. So I can speak a little bit as a radio maker, but also as a radio fan, but you know, I think it is a commitment and a realization that radio deserves, you know, a real depth of craft. Radio has tended to, for a lot of radio, it's easy, right? You can open up a microphone and start talking and you're making radio. And so there's like, there's a little bit of, it sort of creates this false sense of what radio can be because it's like, well, it's really easy to immediately do it. Whereas with film, you know, if I want to make a film, there's like a fair amount of training that I would need to do that, certainly a generation ago when there was tons of technical training and now, even now, you know, it still involves a little bit more. So radio has always, I think, been a place where people could just do it really quickly. And I think what people like Ira Glass did was say, you know, this medium deserves more. This medium is something that you can really invest time and journalistic effort in. And there's a real skill there and, you know, he's a master of it, but it's not like this big secret. It's just a matter of putting in the work and spending the time and saying, you know, we're not just going to settle for opening a microphone and talking, we're going to spend months applying the tools of narrative journalism to this medium that hasn't had it for that long. The medium has really benefited and then at the other end of the radio spectrum, a show like ours, which is open up a microphone and start talking, still kind of has benefited from that because, you know, we have this sense of radio as this place where communities gather, where you shine a light on stories that don't get told otherwise. So, you know, here at the WNYC offices, we have the sort of open floor plan on the eighth floor, or on the ninth floor at WNYC. And our show, which is a sort of morning talk show, is happens to be, our cubicles happen to be between radio lab and on the media, which are two very different shows from each other and two very different shows from ours. But like there's something, I'm convinced that the open floor plan of it, just like something is in the air and we draw from them and they draw from us and it just all feels like we're part of the same project, even though we're all sort of making very different kinds of radio. So, you know what I love that you said was, you know, you talked about depths of craft when it comes to somebody like Ira, and then you talked about plugging in a microphone and starting to speak when it comes to somebody like you or somebody like me. And I think what's really cool is that there's almost a journey where what you're doing is the starting point to getting to that depth of craft. I mean, and that's that's something that I've realized over spending four to five years of doing this, you know, when I look back at what we did even a year ago, I think, wow, this is really different. We're spending a lot more time thinking about the depth of craft and the ability to tell stories and to do things that really hook our listeners and keep them listening because I think that in a lot of ways, like you said, it's easy to get into this mindset that, okay, you know what, I can plug in my microphone and we can neglect the depth of craft. So I think it's important to keep that in mind almost as sort of as a point to which you're trying to reach, and I don't think this just applies to creating radio. I think this applies to any creative endeavor for that matter. I agree. You know, you have to put in the work, you're not doing yourself or your audience any favors if you are just sort of winging it. And a lot of it just comes down to standards and tastes, right? We all have the thing in our heads that we want whatever project we're working on to be like or sound like or look like. And the whole goal is to close that gap as much as possible between what we're doing and what we're hoping that it will be. And the only way to close that gap is to just, you know, do work and hold yourself to high standards and just sort of do it and do it and do it. And that's why I think a show like ours with a host like Brian who's been doing it for 25 years, you know, thrives because he's unwilling to settle. He's unwilling to rest on his laurels even though he kind of has it figured out. He's always asking new questions or always trying new things. And I think that it's a lot of that is just related to how, you know, good, creative people are wired that it's as much about sort of setting up challenges for yourself and figuring it out as it is about feeling like you've accomplished something. And I, you know, every time I talk about this stuff, I honestly, I come back to the sports I've played because when I play, you know, I really think that sports are like the best example of, you know, always, always having your goal be a little bit out of reach, right? Always thinking that there's a little bit more you can do, always thinking that your team could be a little more cohesive even though a lot of sports are about winning and losing and there's goals and all those, you know, literal goals. I've always felt the most satisfaction when, you know, the sort of winning and losing is a byproduct of the work that you're doing and the effort you're putting in and the satisfaction comes from just sort of, you know, giving it, giving it your all to use a sports cliche that I actually tend to believe in. Well, you know, I mean, I think that's a, it's actually a such a true thing and I love that you brought up how Brian is never satisfied because you know, what I realize is that you never really do bridge the gap. It's something that you're constantly doing you it's, I remember hearing Ed Helms in an interview with a guy named Sam Jones on the off camera show that MTV produces, which is probably one of my favorite interview based shows. And I remember he said he's like, life is just a series of false horizons. And I thought that was such a such a true, I thought, yeah, man, I'm like, you've made it. You've been in like three hangover movies, you're famous and you see life as a series of false horizons. That really is eye opening. I think that's really indicative of the fact that there is no such thing as an I've made it moment. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I think that the people who I like to work with and I'd like to think when I'm at my best on this way, you know, the moment you feel comfortable, that's like the most terrifying feeling in the world. And then you're like, okay, let's figure out a new thing and all of the projects that I take on. And you know, I'm always sort of adding new things and trying new things and trying to find new people collaborate. There is much, you know, challenges and new things to figure out as they are ends in and of themselves spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from uncommon goods. The busy holiday season is here and uncommon goods makes it less stressful with incredible handpick gifts for everyone on your list. All in one spot, gifts that spark joy, wonder delight and that it's exactly what I wanted feeling. They scour the globe for original handmade, absolutely remarkable things. Last year, I found the perfect gift for my nephew periodic table building blocks. These blocks were a big hit and considering he was talking in full sentences before he even turned to, I'd say that's a pretty good win. They're not just educational, but also a fun way to spark his curiosity, uncommon goods has a knack for offering gifts that are truly memorable, unique and make every occasion special. When you shop at uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. When you shop at uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches. So shop now before they sell out this holiday season, uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality, unique and often handmade or made in the US. They have the most meaningful out of the ordinary gifts. They even have gifts you can personalize. From holiday hosts and hostess gifts to the coolest finds for kids, to hits for everyone from book lovers to die hard sports fans, uncommon goods has something for everyone, not just the same old selections you could find anywhere. And with every purchase you make at uncommon goods, they give $1 back to an unprofit partner of your choice. They donated more than $3 million to date. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/unmistakable. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon goods. We're all out of the ordinary. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent or go to statefarm.com. Ryan Reynolds here from mid mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mid mobile unlimited. Premium wireless. Get 30, 30, 30, get 30, get 20, 20, get 20, get 20, get 20, get 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So, give it a try at midmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of detail. When it comes to weight loss, no two people are the same. That's why Noom builds personalized plans based on your unique psychology and biology. Take Brittany. After years of unsustainable diets, Noom helped her lose 20 pounds and keep it off. I was definitely in a yo-yo cycle for years of just losing weight, gaining weight, and it was exhausting. And Stephanie, she's a former D1 athlete who knew she couldn't out train her diet and she lost 38 pounds. My relationship to food before Noom was never consistent. And Evan, he can't stand salads, but he still lost 50 pounds with Noom. I never really was a salad guy. That's just not who I am. Even through the pickiness, Noom taught me that building better habits builds a healthier lifestyle. I'm not doing this to get to a number. I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com. Real Noom users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. So before we get into Ask Roulette, I want to ask you one more question, specifically around sort of the radio business, because I think from the outside world, it sort of can appear that, hey, you know, radio is this dying business, but what I'm very curious about is the media landscape and how it's starting to change, you know, what you guys are seeing from your level and what are the implications for people who are themselves creators at sort of the level of, you know, I'm seeing that, you know, there's like, you know, what we consider mainstream media or big media, which might be you guys, and then sort of independently produced media. And I'm very curious from where you're sitting, what is this landscape looking like and what is the future going to look like? Well, I think it is, you know, fracturing and exploding in some scary ways, but also totally providing a big opportunity for independent media and, you know, big media and then things like WNYC, which I guess are like big independent media, you know, we're still pretty small time in the grand scheme of things, but we're a big public radio station and content producer. But this was slightly before my time, but I think, you know, the initial fear around some, you know, podcasts and the internet was that it was going to kill radio. And it's almost the exact opposite has happened is that there's been this realization that audio content somehow, some way, you know, thrives online and people seek it out and they can time shift it and their mobile devices actually work really well for radio, but also I think the sort of intimacy of radio has a real sort of special place in the sort of disparate media landscape, which can be a little alienating at times or whatever. So I think that radio is really having a moment now, you know, which no one could have really predicted. And certainly, you know, you look at the podcast explosion. I mean, I heard someone joke the other day that like, basically, we're getting to the point where no one has a conversation with each other unless they're a guest on the other person's podcast. And it kind of feels that way. Certainly no, you know, every comedian in the world has a podcast, every sort of entrepreneur has a podcast. But I think it's because people are seeking connections with each other. And also because there's starting to be some real money involved, not you or I, but other people. But no, I mean, you look around and there's podcast networks starting up stations are starting to bring podcasts into the fold and realizing that, you know, it's an actual viable medium and people feel really connected with it. And the thing in public radio, which is why I think public radio has been really good at podcasting is the thing in public radio is always about the connection with our listeners, both because I think that makes the best kind of radio. But also from a calculating standpoint is, you know, that's how we survive when we are public radio. Your job is to make a connection with the listener and then convert them from a listener to a member. That's kind of how our business model works. I happen to really like that because it changes the kind of stories we can tell. But so, so if podcasts are this way to make a connection with the listener, well, that's the first step to then bringing them in the fold and sort of meeting our business model. So it's all of a piece. And I think it all is really starting to coalesce in this moment right now. And I mean, just looking at the last year of the podcast world and then where it's headed over the next year, it's pretty remarkable to see this sort of explosion and the sort of level of craftsmanship and, you know, that people are starting to make a real living out of it. Not that many people yet, but it's getting there and it's changing quick. Yeah. Well, speaking of connecting with listeners, I think that actually makes a perfect setup to start talking specifically about what got you here and what piqued my curiosity, which is ask roulette. But I want to start by talking about something that you mentioned earlier in our conversation, where you said that you had sort of this epiphany moment where you started to see dots connect, which led to the formation of this. And what I'm curious about is how we learn to recognize those moments in our lives as creative people or our lives in general, because I think those moments are often overlooked by a lot of people. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt. It can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with State Farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a State Farm agent or go to State Farm dot com. When it comes to weight loss, no two people are the same. That's why Noom builds personalized plans based on your unique psychology and biology. Take Brittany, after years of unsustainable diets, Noom helped her lose 20 pounds and keep it off. I was definitely in a yo-yo cycle for years of just losing weight, gaining weight, and it was exhausting. And Stephanie, she's a former D1 athlete who knew she couldn't outtrain her diet and she lost 38 pounds. My relationship to food before Noom was never consistent. And Evan, he can't stand salads, but he still lost 50 pounds with Noom. I never really was a salad guy. That's just not who I am. Even through the pickiness, Noom taught me that building better habits builds a healthier lifestyle. I'm not doing this to get to a number. I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com. Real Noom users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those owners to your contracts, they said, what the f*ck are you talking about? You insane Hollywood c*ck. So to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details. Balancing a wellness routine and busy travel plans? Try Alamo moves. The health and wellness app you need to stay consistent. Join alamooves.com with code ACAST for a 30 day free trial and 20% off an annual membership. From yoga and pilates to strength workouts, alamooves has it all. From five to 60 minutes, alamooves has classes or flow that fit your schedule. Plus, alamooves offers meditations, sound baths, nutrition tips, and self-care tutorials. Find your perfect wellness routine anytime and anywhere with alamooves. What feels like an inkling of something you could pursue? I really think the key is to pursue it efficiently. I know people, there's been times in my life where you throw yourself fully into this project and then you get totally disheartened when it doesn't pan out. Throw yourself fully and invest yourself into another project, and then you sort of go swinging from ecstasy to agony and so forth. I tend to think it's better to have a bunch of things bubbling and really figure out the ways to do them efficiently and then start to sort of use your judgment and sort of trust your instinct and say, "Okay, this project, it's okay to let it go. This project feels like it's got some legs. Let's push it and see." And then eventually, when this happened with me, I sort of found one that really felt special and exciting and that I could really pursue. But that's not to say that there weren't like four other projects out there that could have had that sort of feeling for me and I could have fully invested myself in it. Like we were talking about earlier, a lot of it is about just picking something and working on it as a problem to solve. And then realizing that, "Oh, it's got something there." But ask roulette is great. I think it's unique. I really love everything that it does, but there could have been some other project that would have been really satisfying and started to get some momentum. It's interesting as I listen to you talk about that process. I think about sort of the process by which I conceived our recent event, the Instigator Experience. I started out interviewing one person at a time. And I thought, "Well, let me try to interview three people at the same time and see what happens and let's bring in, let's do it live and we'll make it a tele seminar." And that worked. And then I thought, "Well, what if we put all those people in the same room at a live event and saw what happened?" And I love that you brought up that it's about doing it efficiently because I think it's very tempting. The temptation for me could have very easily been to jump from, "Okay, I interview people. Let me go and put eight of them together in a live room at an event." And I may not have been able to connect or collect the dots the way I had if I hadn't done that. So when Asgrew let, one of the things that, like I said, really intrigued me about the entire concept was I wanted to know, "What is a person who conceives of something like this think of the world like?" And I guess the question for me, before we start getting into specifics about what goes on at Asgrew let, because I think our listeners, especially if they're in your area, will probably find themselves in your audience very soon. Is there some deep need that it fulfills for you? I mean, do you have a deep need for connecting to people? I mean, I'm curious. What underlying personal need does this fulfill for you? I don't know if I buy that there are some sort of deep-seated needs. I think everyone likes to connect with others. Like I said, I'm a little more calculating about it in that I really just love media or really any project that connects people. I just marvel at the willingness of our audience members to talk to each other and open up to each other and sort of take a chance. And I guess I just, this may answer your question, I guess I just find it really inspiring to see people sort of take that chance and then I'm totally in awe of what comes out of that. So, you know, my deep-seated need is not about a personal fulfillment or anything. It's about just kind of like wanting to do a little bit to help create those moments. It's like totally fulfilling to watch people connect with each other and have played a bit of a part in that. But I really feel like it's at its best when in a sense I recede and I'm really just kind of providing the nudging around the edges and the sort of the situation for people to actually sort of take over. That's when it's most satisfying and that's when I sort of really just sort of sit back and say, "Wow, there's something really great happening here." Well, speaking of which, let's start talking about kind of what goes on at Ask Roulette because I think, like I said, if any of our listeners are in the New York area, for those of you guys who haven't heard what Jodie is up to, I highly encourage you to go because I couldn't help but laugh. I mean, there are some hilarious things. So, let's talk about the people who come to Ask Roulette. I mean, I still remember when I emailed you, you said, "Srenia, I think the people who come to Ask Roulette are far more interesting than I am." But it's, you know, like I said, what goes on there was what really fascinated me and I'd love for you to start talking to us about what happens in that room. Sure. So, just to recap the sort of infrastructure of it, basically people come to Ask Roulette and they come with a question they'd want to ask a stranger. And it's a little hard to just have people picture it, to describe it. It's much easier when you see it in action, but basically you write a question that you want to ask a stranger down on a sheet of paper and you put it into a box and then there's all these questions in a box and I sort of sit to the side of the stage and I pull the question at random and call people up. So, there's this idea that you're sort of writing a question and you don't know who it's going to eventually connect with, which I really like and you can tell that people think about that question as something, you know, there's that sort of mystery of it. Like, man, who's, where is it? This question is going to go into the ether and it's going to land with someone and I don't know if that's going to be a man or woman, I don't know if that person is going to be old or young, I don't know if that person will have just had the worst day in the world or will be on the cusp of the greatest moment of their life, you know, who knows, but I'm putting my question sort of out there. And then we call people on this, there's two people on stage at a given time and once someone asks their answers a question from a stranger and then the person who they just, whose question they just answered leads, the next person comes up and that person who just answered then gets to ask. So there's this bond of trust where you can't really try and troll it or whatever because you know that you're going to be answering a question first and so that sort of, that infrastructure creates a little bit of an element of trust and that's a really big part for me is I want people to just feel comfortable and I want people to feel like they can open up if they want. That said, you know, some of the interactions are really short, some of the interactions are a little longer, some of them are totally funny and weird and some of them are really deep and moving and a lot of the, and a lot of the time you can't tell what's going to, what it's going to be just by looking at the question. So for instance, we've had a question like, tell me about the last dream you remember. We've had that question asked a few times. It's a great question and you know, there was one time that question got asked and someone told like the craziest, weirdest story I've ever heard and it was hilarious and everyone was laughing. Another time someone answered that question and talked about how they just had a dream about their mother who had recently passed away. So you know, in these questions, there's this sort of infinite range of possible answers and connections and that's where I think it really starts to sing because you just don't know what's going to happen. And I think it's a nice reminder that a question isn't like, a question isn't like a way to extract information from someone. A question is sort of an invitation to connect and I really love those moments and they tend to happen, you know, pretty regularly. You know, I probably my favorite thing that you just said was this infinite range of answers and possibilities. I think that that's such a beautiful thing. You know, it's interesting. The other thing that you brought up that really is very surprising to me is you said, you know, you're creating an environment that people feel safe in, which it's funny because I've heard some of those questions. I remember how I discovered you and what got my interest was I was listening to a woman on stage being asked, when was the last time that you went on a blind date? And she happened to be at your event on a blind date. Yeah, that was remarkable. And I mean, you know, the audience loved that. Everyone immediately turned around to see where she was sitting to look at the guy, you know, but but someone asked the question was, tell me about a date or a blind date that went really badly, actually, was the question. And she there's actually there's actually video of this too. If people want to go check it out. But but and she said, well, as it happens, I'm on a blind date right now. And so, you know, I asked the obvious follow up, which is, how's it going? And she said, well, what's going great so far? You know, and then we said, well, tell us about a horrible date. And she told a story about a horrible date. And then, you know, we said, okay, I looked at the guy sitting in the audience and I said, okay, so now you know what not to do in order for this to go well. But yeah, and so and so that's just, you know, that's just pure coincidence, right, that you had a question about a date and this person was on a date. And we've had that happen, you know, way more than I think should be statistically possible, these like amazing coincidences. So someone will ask out their pet and the other person will be, you know, in veterinary school or whatever. Someone will ask a question about their apartment and the other person's a landlord. Are they just aren't looking for an apartment as well? So, you know, these these connections happen all the time. And you just never know until people get on stage and actually start talking. And that's what I really love about it is the sort of texture that you get over the course of a night. Some of the interactions are really short. Some of them merit a long conversation with a bunch of follow up questions. Some of them are really serious. Some of them are really silly. Well, what kinds of people come to ask for that? That's, you know, as you're describing this, I'm really curious. And, you know, are there like what's going on in somebody's life that makes them think, you know what I want to do? I want to go ask a bunch of strangers a question or I get, I want to be asked semi uncomfortable questions by a complete stranger. Yeah, I, you know, I don't know. I mean, our audiences like really, I often think that the best part about hosting the show is that I don't actually have to be on stage because I think I put myself in the in the shoes or the seat of the person on stage. And I'm like, I don't know what I would say if I was asked this question on stage in front of a, of strangers, but people continually sort of step up. I think we're in New York. We're sort of in the storytelling, comedy world. We do it at a venue that has a lot of sort of storytelling events. So I think that there's probably a number of people there who are, you know, performers of some type or at least feel a connection to storytelling and performance. So, you know, sometimes you get people on stage who clearly are used to being gregarious in front of strangers. But a lot of them are just people who are regular folks, so to speak. And I think they end up there and they kind of maybe surprise themselves by how much they're willing to open up. But I, you know, I never want people to feel like they're performing or they're trying to meet some sort of standard or trying to win by giving a great answer or whatever. You know, everything I do basically is to make it a comfortable environment because I think that's when people are at their best because I genuinely, you know, I genuinely believe that people are interesting and they have interesting things to say and they want to connect with others. It's also, you know, you have to say this, it's also self-selecting, right? Not everyone who comes is going to go on stage and not everyone who comes has to put something in there. So, you know, you're pulling, a lot of people just come and drink and have a good time and just watch and maybe cringe or whatever. But maybe not cringe that much. But, you know, hopefully just laugh and feel a warm glow. But the people who are putting a name in, you know, are already the kind of people who think of themselves as willing to take that step. So it's a little self-selecting, but man, I just marvel at the way people sort of rise to the occasion. I mean, I can say this like pretty much with full certainty, like no one bombs. You know, no one goes up there and just like freezes up. People are just great. And from a very practical standpoint, as a sort of producer of this thing, one of the things I really like about the format is that if an interaction is not clicking for whatever reason, you can just move on. You know, there's no time limit like in a lot of other storytelling events or whatever, it's not like this is going to be a five minute story or whatever. Some of the interactions are like literally 10 seconds long. And some of them are five, six, seven minutes long. And that's my job is to sort of say, okay, this interaction is done and we'll just move on. And that's fine. Well, I love that idea that nobody can bomb. I think that's such a really, it creates such a cool environment for people to be in. And like you said, one that people feel safe in, which I think is absolutely fascinating. So, you know, before we start wrapping things up, you know, I have one other question around sort of the byproducts. Not for you personally, but for people who have come to ask roulette, have there been interesting stories that have come about as an after effect as a result? Like has anybody gotten married as a result of ask roulette? That is that's the one I'm waiting for. I think, you know, I'm pretty sure there's been some couples that have met at ask roulette. And so I'm waiting on my first ask roulette marriage. I know people, you know, become friends with each other because they ended up together. People see each other as shows, you know, we have some regular folks who come to shows over and over and they've connected with each other. I've certainly made friends by people just coming and going on stage and I've had a great conversation with them and follow up with them afterwards. So I do think we're sort of building a community of sorts and I, you know, that's, that sounded really pretentious maybe, but you know, it's like, but it's true. I mean, I think people want to feel connection and I have this whole sort of notion of New York as as big as it is and as surrounded by people as you are all the time. It's a, it can actually be a really isolating place. And I tend to really value things in New York that feel like, that make it feel like the world's a little smaller, your community is a little more closely knit. It's the kind of radio that I like for New York. And it's, you know, I think my show, I mean, it's at its best in whatever humble way is doing a little bit of that as well. So I, I just like that. Yeah, I am noticing that it's building this little community. I'm waiting on the marriage. I don't think anyone's broken up and asked to let. I don't think that would happen. It's like a totally a good vibe kind of place. And then the other thing that I really like and this, this kind of answers your question is, um, even though there's two people on stage and a question gets asked on stage, you can see the ripple effects of that question go out into the audience. So everyone who's sitting there is answering that question in their own head in addition to watching the other people on stage answer it. So it's sort of, you know, engages the whole audience. And then sometimes, you know, we usually go to a bar afterwards and we'll see, you know, we have a drink special bar or whatever. And I walk through the bar and I can sort of see people still mulling over one of the questions that got asked, one of the moments that happened. And, and I mean, we, uh, we tweet out the questions that get asked on our, on our Twitter account. And, uh, sometimes I just go and look at this list of questions and they're just, uh, they're all over the place, but they're really engaging and, you know, sometimes I'll just get one stuck in my head and I'll mull it over, you know, for an entire day or two. And, uh, so there's definitely this, like, ripple effect of questions. And I think, uh, that is like, um, I, we were talking about this real landscape earlier. And I really think that like this, uh, this notion of asking questions and trying to connect with as like a real, there's a real space for that online. I mean, you know, you look at the rise of, uh, ask Reddit. Uh, you look at the rise of ask meta filter. Some of that is about practical advice, but a lot of that is just about like wanting to connect with people and having strangers sort of mola and a provocative question over, uh, what the Twitter guys are starting a new app called jelly rate, which is all about asking each other questions. Quora is all about. So I think that there's a sort of, uh, questions are having a moment right now. And, and, you know, we're at the very bottom of the list of all those things I just listed, but I feel like it feels like we're sort of part of that too, where people want sort of, uh, present interaction. They want to connect, yeah, in real time, which is sort of harder and harder to do or not harder to do, but is, um, yeah, feels like more of a special commodity in many ways. Well, I'm going to use that opportunity to do a shameless plug for our, uh, in person event called the unmistakable salon in LA. Uh, if you visit unmistakable salon.com, you can find out more about it. What we're going to be speaking with our, uh, friend and former guest, Justin Musk, where you guys can ask your questions. Um, so Jody, this has been really, really interesting. Uh, and I, I want to close with, uh, my final question, which I've closed all of our interviews with, you know, I found you because something that you did, uh, in a world of noise stood out to me and our show is called the unmistakable creative and you've witnessed the media landscape for a very, very long time. And I'm curious based on everything you've seen, everything you've experienced and everything you've created. What is it? Do you think makes something or someone unmistakable? All right. I think I got something. So that, that is an incredibly difficult question because I think it's sort of, um, everyone has it. It's, I think it's, it's most powerful when it's not, it's not possible to articulate. You just feel, you know, like something clicks for you. I really love people who seem like they are trying to, uh, you know, make the world a little more intimate, explain things, uh, pop the hood and, and, and sort of tinker around and explain how the world works and bring me a little closer. That's the kind of, uh, media I like. It's the kind of writing I like. It's the kind of things I like. Uh, and so that's the sort of, um, you know, that unmistakable element is just witnessing someone try and sort of help me figure out the world. Those, those are the people who really, uh, fire me up the most. Awesome. Well, Jody, uh, let me say that's been just an absolute pleasure to have you here, uh, as a guest on the unmistakable creative. Uh, and I, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share some of your insights with our listeners. Great. I really appreciate it. And, and again, if people are listening from New York, they should come out to, uh, our live shows and if people are listening from elsewhere, they should, uh, check out the podcast. And one of my big goals for 2014 is to go on the road and try and do some shows are on the West Coast and, and elsewhere. So, um, hopefully we're coming to a town. But we're certainly on the internet. Yeah. And, uh, for those of you in New York, highly, highly recommend it. And, uh, for those of you listening, we will close the show with that. Today's episode of the unmistakable creative has been brought to you by FreshBooks, the simple accounting solution for business owners who want to skip the headaches of tax time. No more hunting receipts, digging for invoices are going through records one at a time. For a limited time, you can try it free for 60 days. That's two whole months to see how much more efficient it will make your invoicing process. Visit getfreshbooks.com to learn more. And remember, when you get to the, how did you hear about a section, enter unmistakable creative and don't forget when you support our sponsors, you support our show, you've been listening to the unmistakable creative podcast. Visit our website at unmistakablecreative.com and get access to over 400 interviews in our archives. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life Insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start state farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent or go to statefarm.com. Have you ever felt a twinge of worry about AI taking over your job or diluting your creativity? Well, what if you could turn that fear into create a fuel? We've just published an amazing new ebook called the four keys to success in an AI world. And this is more than just a guide. It's a deep exploration into the human skills that AI can't touch. The skills that are essential for standing out and thriving, no matter how much technology evolved. We're talking about real differentiators here like creativity, emotional intelligence, critical thinking and much more. Inside, you'll find actionable insights and strategies to develop these skills, whether you're a creative person, a business person or just simply someone who loves personal development. This isn't a story about tech taking over. It's a story of human creativity thriving alongside AI. Picture this AI as your creative co-pilot, not just as a tool, but a collaborator that enhances your unique human skills. The four keys ebook will show you exactly how to do that and view AI in a new way that empowers you instead of overshadows you. Transform your creative potential today. Head over to unmistakablecreative.com/fourkeys. Use the number four, K-E-Y-S. That's unmistakablecreative.com/fourkeys and download your free copy. [BLANK_AUDIO]

Making films in the early days of high school
The parallels between sports teams and creative environments
Applying the storytelling tools of film to radio journalism
The diversity in background and art that influence radio
What some of the best radio journalists have in common
How good creative people are wired and do their work
Why being too comfortable hurts our creativity
A look at trends in the world of podcasting and radio
Why you should be continually experimenting with different ideas
A look at the social dynamics of Ask Roulette
Making New York feel like a smaller place through community

Subscribe for ad-free interviews and bonus episodes https://plus.acast.com/s/the-unmistakable-creative-podcast.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.