The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

Relationships as an Engine for Personal Growth Mike Hrostoski

Mike Hrostoski is making the world a better place one man at a time. In this revealing chat about, grief, loss, and growth he talks me about how our relationships can become one of our greatest engines for personal growth. Here are some of the highlights from our chat:

Learning to look at your past through the lens of compassion
The dichotomy of tragedy and enlightenment in one event
How death can be one of your greatest teachers
Giving yourself space between tragedy and the rest of your life
How men become lonelier as they become more successful
Why mean are programmed not to ask for help
The power of making it up as you go along
What happens when you start living a lie
How love starts to change all of your painful stories
Finding a catalyst to make changes in your life
Why it’s important face your pain head first
Transcending the perceptions of mens’ work
An interesting look at the power of deep connections

Mike Hrostoski, The Men’s Coach, helps high performing men master their relationships with their women and their work. And he’s on a mission to make the world a better place one man at a time.

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Duration:: 1h 10m
Broadcast on:: 09 Apr 2014
Audio Format:: other

As you probably noticed this month, we're bringing you our "Life of Purpose" series and revisiting some of our most transformative episodes, tune in to explore expert insights and practical strategies on help, performance, and community well-being, all aimed at helping you achieve personal and professional fulfillment. If you sign up for the newsletter, you'll not only get recaps of the key ideas in each interview, but at the end of the series, you'll receive our free "Life of Purpose" ebook. What you have to do is go to unmistakablecreative.com/lifepurpose. I'm Srini Rao, and this is the Unmistakable Creative Podcast, where I speak with creative entrepreneurs, artists, and other insanely interesting people to hear their stories, learn about their molding moments, tipping points, and spectacular takeoffs. Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess, my 100th mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Honestly, when I started this, I thought I'd only have to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 and what power there's still people paying two or three times that much. I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at midmobile.com/switch whenever you're ready. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of seat details. Hate your crime, fans? Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations? Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your prime membership. After all, ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. To start listening, download the Amazon Music App for free or go to amazon.com/adfreetruecrime. That's amazon.com/adfreetruecrime to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linked in, the place to be, to be. You've actually long been requested by many of our listeners and you and I have known each other for quite some time. We seem to have a lot of overlapping circles. Mike, tell me a bit about yourself, your background and your story and how that has led you to the work that you're doing today. Yes, so currently, I've been traveling the world full time for about two years. I sold everything I own in March 2012 and I work with high performing men. I'm a coach for mainly entrepreneurs, like most of my clients are entrepreneurs. I'm just really dedicated to this space of men's work and I know we'll probably talk more about it. My business is primarily one-on-one coaching and I also do some live events and I'm doing my first really big live event in a couple of weeks in San Diego called the conference for men. My life is pretty sweet right now but it hasn't been for most of my life. I'm trying to think of where to start. I've actually been introduced as a sex expert before which is the most surreal, crazy thing because it's funny because for most of my life, just women and sex and relationships and intimacy was just such a pain point and I had no idea what I was doing and a lot of that was due to my upbringing. I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses in a very strict, conservative, religious, very loving. I had amazing parents growing up but just sort of in that kind of tight container. I didn't really get to experience a lot when I was young and I only hung out with my friends from church and I really wasn't allowed to do anything but a lot of the other kids did especially around sex and girls. I didn't date at all just throughout high school, had my first kiss, first super awkward kiss as a senior in high school and I was just taught that I'm not supposed to date unless I'm going to get married. I had just a lot of, I guess, godly fear around women and then just fear because I had no experience at all so it's been just a really interesting process of over, I'd say over the past decade, I've been trying to just figure women out and just trying to figure out how to get into the hearts and minds of women and I, as probably in my early 20s, I would just read my girlfriend's Cosmo magazine just to be like, what are these strange alien creatures thinking about? I just like, women were like a whole different world to me and I just put a lot of space into just getting that piece figured out because I had so much pain in my life around it just because girls would ask me out and I was so painfully shy that I couldn't even look at them in the eyes and my friends would, my guy friends would make fun of me because that was really into power lifting and weight lifting at the time so they'd be like, Mike, you're like the biggest dude in our school and a girl talks to you and you become a seven-year-old, like what's wrong with you and it was just, I was just really shy and I had so many beliefs and thoughts about women and I just thought like I wasn't supposed to talk with them and then when they did, I just totally shut down so I put a lot of time into studying relationships and I've read like every book on relationships written for men, every book on relationships written for women and now, like today, as I look at just life and as I look at a lot of the work that I've done, to me it's like I think your relationship is your greatest personal growth engine and I think I've fallen into talking a lot about like relationships and intimacy because oftentimes like that's where we get challenged the most and I think how you show up in your relationship is how you show up in life so oftentimes I take guys like just really deep into that and you know, it's like how you show up in sex is how you show up in the world and oftentimes just by changing something little it has nothing to do with like sex or the bedroom and it has so much more of us like how you show up like in the boardroom or how you show up on stage or how you show up in an interview or how you show up when you like walk into a room. So yeah, so right now I'm just really dedicated to serving men and that's because when I was young, there was nothing for me and I spent pretty much all of my 20s just wasting a lot of time and like drinking a lot and playing video games and just trying to like numb the pain of like not knowing what to do or like what the next steps are. Instead of doing things to better myself or instead of doing things to like make the world a better place and I just was really not on purpose and just kind of floating sort of aimlessly through life like even though I was doing all the things that I was supposed to do like I worked for five years then I got my MBA and then I got this like high paying corporate job I was in a leadership development program for a fortune of 50 healthcare firm and I was doing all the stuff that I wanted to do but just still really wasn't that satisfied with how I was spending my time and then and for me like the big piece of my story and I've talked a lot about it like everything changed on June 4th 2011 and and for one thing I went to the world domination summit or I went to world domination summit Chris Chris Gilevo's conference and I went to the first one and at the time I was just a normal guy working a corporate job and I read Chris's blog and I saw this this thing that just seemed really cool and you know even as I look back like I don't know why I bought a ticket to that conference it was I wasn't an entrepreneur I wasn't you know like running a business or running a nonprofit just everyone else at the conference just seemed way cooler than me but for some reason I just I wanted to go when I wanted to be a part of it and when I went to WDS I remember just meeting all these people and you know so many of them were younger than me and they were living the most just remarkable lives just you know businesses living all over the world their Chris's tribe has a lot of like digital nomads so there are people just you know living out of a backpack like running a successful you know like running successful businesses and you know like huge organizations and and they were really nice too and and you know they weren't like oh I'm so cool look at my business it was more of the energy of like yeah like I did this and it's hard and it's taken a lot of work but you know it's like I'd love to jump on Skype with you or I'd love to show you exactly how I did it like I'd love to share everything with you and and it was kind of like taking the red pill in the matrix like I didn't even know that this world existed I had never I have never even dreamed of like being an entrepreneur and I I remember thinking I've never said this in an interview like I've always thought that like entrepreneurs have something special or I I always would like you know I'd have friends parents who were entrepreneurs and I think man those guys are so brave or like they just have something that that I don't have like there's there's no way I could ever do that you know there's no way I could ever go out on my own and sell a product or sell a service but there was something around just being in that atmosphere and and just meeting person after person after person and and just hearing their stories and and hearing them say you know I literally don't know what I'm doing but I'm making it up as I go and my business has been growing every year and I'm still afraid and at times it's really really tough but I wouldn't change it for the world so like in that in that moment just my it's like my my mind was literally blown like my coming out of that weekend my my brain was was bigger because of all of the possibilities that that I could you know live in my life so easily like one of the best experiences of my life and then I had the worst experience of my life like five hours before the conference started so my my mom passed away unexpectedly in in her sleep I got the call I was in the in the hostel in this like room with like eight other guys sleeping in bunk beds and it was like three o'clock in the morning and kind of smelled like a locker room in there and I kept like my phone kept blowing up and I was getting text messages and I finally answered and and my and my brother was just like crying and my dad was like in the background and and they said like mom died and and it was so it was so unexpected like my my mom had been sick for a while and she had chronic fatigue syndrome and she was just just kind of just tired and depressed for a lot of like the last I don't know probably last decade of her life but it was just completely unexpected and when I when I got the call it's like I I didn't even really cry like I was just sort of just in shock and I got the call and I sort of immediately went into that like protector coach mode because I've I've always been someone who's just like held space for for other people and and I you know made sure my dad and my brother were okay and talk them through it and then I went back to sleep and then in the in the morning like five hours later I walked to the conference and then and I sort of already told you what happened at the conference so so for me it was just this just complete complete destruction of my life like it was it was like the train completely goes off the tracks and then and then from that moment just like life has has never been the same because there's no way that it could be the same and I talk a lot about death like and in my writing and and in my coaching with men because because for me like death has been one of my my greatest teachers and you know like I know it's it's a theme that you know we even talked about at the weekend at the instigator experience just just that just die die empty right just live fully and die empty and and once my mom passed away I just I had no other choice because I because I knew it and I felt it and I was like just shit like I like this is not a dress rehearsal and you know what am I doing I'm I'm working this corporate job and I make a ton of money that like I don't even need and like I'm spending a bunch of it on just like wine and clothes and stuff to numb the pain of of me like not doing something that that turns me on or like not doing something that like makes the world a better place and and then and then from that moment on just everything everything shifted just I I had no other option but but to live a conscious life but because I I knew that death is around the corner or so so from there I you know lasted six more months in corporate than I left my corporate job sold everything I own I I took a full year off and I don't talk about this a lot too but I just I took a year off because honestly like I was sad and I didn't know what the hell to do and I had a lot of savings and I just wanted to you know I I've been living life kind of like I have like a month to live I think for the past couple years just because I yeah I just don't want to waste any time and I just want to show up really big so I took a year off to all of 2012 just to do stuff that makes me happy and I I did like hundreds of hours of pro bono coaching work I supported a bunch of friends like in their projects and and and the and the big thing is my my brother and I just drove around the country doing doing volunteer work and we created this passion project called us a summer to serve where we kind of made this idea of taking the great American road trip and adding like a peace corps element and we just drove all over the US doing doing volunteer work and we we volunteered with kids and we built houses and we volunteer like this amusement park for disabled children and we like we dug ditches we we shovel horse poop in Des Moines, Iowa just just like all of his different experiences and it was probably even to this day like one of just the best experiences of my life and and and I just just did stuff that makes me happy and but but over the course of that I was I was out in the world a lot and I was going to a lot of events and South by Southwest and World Domination Summit and and just helping a lot of people and at the end of 2012 it wasn't my intention at all but I built a lot of social capital just all over the country and I had a lot of people who I had helped and and I sort of had a coaching business on my hand so I January 2013 I I launched my business and and it's been you know and it's been paying the bills since and it's just been growing and growing and getting better and better and and sometime in there I believe I believe a year ago is is when I I took a stand for men and I I rebranded myself as the men's coach I just started writing more about men and just focusing on men's issues and and that's because as as I traveled all over the world and just met tons of people and hosted a lot of meetups I kept hearing the same pain points from from men and and the two are one I just don't have any friends anymore like I don't have any like real friends because I've I'm on the path and when I say I'm on the path these men are either on a spiritual path or they're on the path of entrepreneurship but but they're doing work in their lives and and they're like they're they want more from lives and they're actually doing it like they're they're showing up and and they're just growing and you know and they're not the same person that they were a year ago or two years ago and and as they look around some of their friends just like aren't growing with them and some of their friends might even like make fun of them or do like you're going to some conference like that's weird or or like you're you go to a men's group to talk about your problems like it's pretty gay wrote you know like they their friends just don't don't get it because they they don't have the same values of of growth or of of getting more out of life so so that's one thing is that just and and it's funny that almost the more successful that that a man gets it's like the higher chance he has of being lonely which which is crazy but if you know I've that's just what I found as I as I talk to guys and then the second thing is that just men have a complete inability to ask for help and and and and and I still like with all the work that I've done and even even coaching when like there's there's times where I could be asking for for for more help and and what that does is it it sort of makes it as a man like grows as a man and becomes a leader in his community or grows his business just distresses like pile on top of it more and more and more and until there's that day where he's just like I just cannot handle this and then he has like a mental breakdown out or maybe that's when like the midlife Christ just kicks in or that's that's when he might commit suicide so the the suicide rates for a man are like three to four times that of of women and and a big part of it is just like we are we're we're programmed to not ask for help we're programmed to to be a man and and suck it up and like never show weakness and you know it's like you can do it all on your own and like you know just all that all that just stuff that that we either hear explicitly like from our fathers or from just mentors or from someone or that's just how every other man operates so we just kind of learn by example of you know what like I just have to do this all all all on my own so so that's you know March 2013 that's when I I really started taking a stand for a man and yeah and and business has been amazing and and it's been it's been really really fun and incredibly rewarding to to work with guys from just just all over because there's not a lot of resources for men and women are doing the work in droves like Oprah is like the personal development channel now and you know there's so many like most coaches are women and there's like all these inner goddess events and like emerging women's leaders and women's conferences and and I'm all for powerful women like I all my friends are powerful women and like I only date powerful women but but there's there's an imbalance right if women are doing work and growing emotionally and spiritually and financially you know like I know I have so many friends who are just badass entrepreneurs who are who are female but then if the men don't if the men aren't doing the work then there's just just more and more guys who are either like in marriages or in relationships asking like like what am I here for and and they're just just not really showing up very well and and there's a lot of there's a lot of just like weird dynamics now in the world around relationships and and and guys like really just like not really knowing what to do where guys feeling like like they're being left behind or guys even just like wondering like like what's my role in this relationship so yeah so that's that's a bit about my my story and and and what I do and I kind of like that you didn't she didn't jump in because I feel like I've shared stuff that I haven't shared in some other interviews so thanks for just a I guess holding space for me to ramble for a bit well that's been known to happen here from time to time you know it's funny I didn't want to interrupt you because I really was you know listening to so much of what you had to say and I had so many questions that I had to start writing them down or otherwise because I lose track because you had so much material there you know as you might expect I want to go back to the very beginning of this I want to start looking kind of at your upbringing I think it's really an interesting dichotomy of being brought up in this very strict sort of religious background and sort of feeling this need to escape it and the question that I have for you around that is not necessarily about the religious background but you know we we have this tendency to to look into our past in order to determine our future and somehow you transcended that and I want to talk about that you know how do you how do you let go of the past so that you don't look into the future and keep seeing your past yeah so so I think oftentimes we we try and do the opposite of what our parents are so if if my parents were like really progressive loving spiritual people I'd probably be a accountant somewhere it's just it's I find that funny just feel like we always we always just go against whatever our our parents are but in regards to turning around the past for for me the so the thing that that comes up for me has been like learning to to look at my past through the lens of love and compassion so so anytime so I'll give one example like I I was a really bad kid I I got in a lot of trouble and I've been arrested twice and I've and and I lied a lot like I I started with a habit of lying because I didn't want to lose my parents love and I didn't want to be like exiled from my religion and from the congregation so I just started lying and you know all my friends lied we all lied to our parents and I've I've talked to a lot of people about this you know people who can grew up with really strict parents like you just start lying because that's better than like losing your parents love or that's better than like there's there's these fears when you grow up in in a religious household like with really strict parents like there's there's fears that like if I don't lie to my parents I'm gonna be like thrown out in the streets or I'm like they're just not like they're just not gonna love me and when you're 13 years old that's just that's just not an option so so so you lie and when you start a habit right like if you start a habit of flossing your teeth or working out in the mornings like you're probably gonna keep doing it so if you start a habit of lying then you're gonna keep lying and and for me the lies just continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger you know so my my first girlfriend that I finally had as a senior in high school like kept her a secret for my parents for nine months and like the first time I like smoked weed or the first time I I drank you know the first time I like finally had sex when I was almost 20 and just just just everything just doing kind of like that normal kid exploration stuff I couldn't tell my parents so I I had to lie so I I I developed this like double life where I had my life with my parents and with my church friends and then I had my actual life the one where I enjoyed being a little more open and exploring and and it's not a like it's not like a good or bad thing it's just that I yeah like I'm not saying like drinking and having sex is cool I'm just saying that like that's just there's things that I think every child wants to explore a bit and and when when we're given a message from our parents of like you can't do that then we're gonna lie and then then you're gonna keep lying and and then you're gonna have a habit so there was a point that there's there was a point in my life I'd say in my teens and even early 20s that like when given a choice I would consciously choose the wrong path I would consciously choose like lie cheat or steal and I would look at the people who are honest and think like those guys are chumps or like those guys are suckers like why would they not like steal their clothes from the mall or why would they not like steal money from the register at work or why would they not cheat on a test in college like that's silly like they're actually studying but I was I was fooling myself because I was under so much stress that any time like any time my dad called me on my cell phone or any time my girlfriend called me I mean I cheated on a bunch of girlfriends to like anytime like anyone called me or or looked me in the eyes I would feel sick and nauseous because I would feel afraid that they would find out that that I was lying I was under just a lot of pain and I I actually found one of my old journals a while ago from when I was 19 and it was kind of like reading like a serial killer journal or like like I feel like the Columbine kids probably had journals that read read like mine just really dark and like I'd rhyme the words like lie and like cry and die a lot and it was just like the darkest like like dark crazy crazy person poetry and and I wrote a lot about lying and just like like I don't want to lie like I just want to die like why do I always cry and and and I was just totally trapped and I was trapped in this like web of lies and I didn't like it and I was in a ton of pain and so then I was a cutter for a while and I like numbed out with you know alcohol and drugs and I think I've spent like most of my twenties drunk and and and I was you know and on the outside someone would look at me and be like Mike was a horrible person or Mike was a bad person he cheated on his girlfriend or he like he stole money from work but so I just told that whole story because he asked me how do I get over my past so I've I've learned to look at at everything through the lens of love and compassion and I'll never forget I was on a coaching call and and I told that story because I for the longest time I had a ton of guilt and shame around being a horrible person for for most of my life and and my friend Angela who was my coaching buddy in the Martha Beck coaching program that I went through she asked that question she was like can you so you just told me that story of how horrible you were and all the bad things you did and just how you hurt people could you retell that story but while being as loving and compassionate to yourself as possible and then I started and I was just I was weeping I was just crying and I had never looked at my my past self with with love at all and and I remember I was just crying and I was like you know like he was he was just a kid who was just trying to find love and like trying to do the best that he could and he didn't have money to like buy clothes so he had to steal them and and he just and he started lying from such a young age that like that's just what he did and that's like the only thing that that he knew how to do and and he finally like broke the habit you know like in his mid-twenties because he finally learned about the power of integrity and but yeah like he wasn't a horrible person he was just a just a really her kid like he was a kid and in a great deal of pain so I I take my clients through through through that a lot like like anytime they're judging themselves for like doing bad things or doing horrible things um you know I just say can you look at yourself through the lens of love and compassion or or or anytime you know like everyone hates their parents for for some reason it's either my my parents like weren't around or my parents grew up with any money or my parents worked too much and my parents gave me too much money and now I feel like you know it's like I wish I had to struggle more I mean I mean everyone has something that that some sort of beef with their parents and I was asked I'm like you know can you retell that story but using the lens of love and love and compassion like can you be as as loving and compassionate to your parents as possible and then they always just break down and just say I mean they always say my mom did the that she could and you know and she drank so much because she was in in great pain and you know she she grew up in a foster home and she was working two jobs when we were young and like she gave her everything and like she gave every cell of her being to us as kids and you know and then I'll say alright well then why are you angry at your mom like do you want to give her a call and tell her all that stuff and so yeah so the it's like how do you how do you get over how do you get over the past is look at it through the lens of love and compassion and and it just like love just like transmutes pain and and it it creates and and awareness and it just like dissolves all those like bullshit stories in it and it just completely flips things around and and for me it's like I've I've used like love to flip around so many stories from my past and to you know times when you know like a girlfriend broke up with me or when when something you know horrible happened or when I was really embarrassed or when you know I was scared and yeah so it and it sounds like just like mushy and it sounds like some like BS like something you'll see on a Instagram photo like like love is the answer but like it it truly is like it truly is it's not just like a refrigerator magnet like it's if you're able to like look into those those painful stories and then and then through that lens of love and compassion at all of the characters and that story whether it's you or your xy for your parents like you will have you will have a breakthrough and and you will see that like wow just everyone in that moment was was trying their absolute best. Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from uncommon goods the busy holiday season is here and uncommon goods makes it less stressful with incredible hand pick gifts for everyone on your list all in one spot gifts that spark joy wonder delight and that it's exactly what I wanted feeling they scour the globe for original handmade absolutely remarkable things last year I found the perfect gift for my nephew periodic table building blocks these blocks were a big hit and considering he was talking in full sentences before he even turned to I'd say that's a pretty good win they're not just educational but also a fun way to spark his curiosity uncommon goods has a knack for offering gifts that are truly memorable unique and make every occasion special when you shop it on coming goods you're supporting artists and small independent businesses when you shop it on common goods you're supporting artists and small independent businesses many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches so shop now before they sell out this holiday season uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality unique and often handmade or made in the US they have the most meaningful out of the ordinary gifts they even have gifts you can personalize from holiday hosts and hostess gifts to the coolest finds for kids to hits for everyone from book lovers to die hard sports fans uncommon goods has something for everyone not just the same old selections you could find anywhere and with every purchase you make it uncommon goods they give one dollar back to a nonprofit partner of your choice they donated more than three million dollars to date to get 15% off your next gift go to uncommon goods dot com slash unmistakable that's uncommon goods dot com slash unmistakable for 15% off don't miss out on this limited time offer uncommon goods we're all out of the ordinary Ryan Reynolds here for mid mobile with the price of just about everything going up during inflation we thought we'd bring our prices down so to help us we brought in a reverse auctioneer which is apparently a thing mid mobile unlimited premium wireless heavy 30 30 30 30 30 20 20 20 20 15 15 15 just 15 bucks month so give it a try at mid mobile dot com slash switch $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 gigabyte CD tail hate your crime fans tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations good news with Amazon music you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership after all ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime to start listening download the Amazon music app for free or go to Amazon dot com slash ad free true crime that's Amazon dot com slash ad free true crime to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend my friends still laughing me to this day not everyone gets B2B but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com slash results terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be so speaking of parents let's let's talk about your experience you know at WDS because it's kind of an interesting dichotomy that you brought up earlier of the best experience of your life and the worst experience of life happening at the same time. And the question that comes from me for that and this is something I've asked a lot of people is usually grief and traumatic loss can be a huge catalyst for looking at your life and saying how could I not live fully after something like this but you know it's funny because I think that any one of us we know that it could be over at any moment but I don't think that we really really see that like I don't think we can really see that until something happens and I'm curious if you can bring about that kind of a catalyst without having the trauma or how to get yourself to that point I mean you know it's it's kind of like you know it's weird because I think parental death is one of those things or parental mortality is something that I've thought about and I realize it's an inevitable part of life and that we must be built to be able to go through it and yet it seems like it would be the most horrific painful thing I could have ever imagined. Yeah so stuff that I've done is like I've walked clients through exercises like where I take them to like a deep meditation and then and I just say you know like you've been given like 30 days to live by the doctor and like really sink into that like really sink into it and really feel into it and what are you going to do like how are you going to spend the next 30 days and yeah and they'll like and if they really allowed themselves to go there like they'll definitely have like they'll grieve and they'll have a big emotional release and then they'll just talk about all the stuff that they would do and it's you know it's there's always something with parents like everyone says I'll call my mom and dad and tell them I love them because I haven't done that in a while or I'll call my brother and say I'm sorry for whatever for ABC because we haven't talked for this many years and you know I'll you know probably you know who knows like sometimes it's like I'll go on a road trip or I'll go skydiving or you know like I'll donate money or I'll have a big party at my house for all my friends or I'll just like I'll spend the whole day in bed with like with my partner just like having sex and like watching videos on YouTube or just just like all this stuff comes up and then I'll tell them all right cool well that's your homework go and go and go and do that because that's what you actually want to do it's not any of the stuff that you're doing right now and and I've and I've done some yeah and I've been taking I've been taken into that place in different workshops and like different men's groups and retreats and things that I've done you know like I had I was in this thing or like they kind of led us through this like death meditation and it was really like I kind of felt like I died like I felt like I died they were we were laying in Shavasana or you know like corpse pose which is how you end up after after a yoga class so just laying on the ground and the the facilitator was saying just you know like imagine yourself dying dying and then like your skin melting off and your internal organs like sliding out and you're you know like you're just a skeleton and you're like just a heart and a skeleton and and just you know just like really deeper and deeper and keeper and it's almost just like imagining that that place of death and then he kind of kept us there for a while and then and then he brought us back into our bodies and I said all right you're you know you're laying down on a on a mat like in the room in the house in California which is in the US the world and then and then we and then he's like sent us outside you know just just go ahead and as you come back into your bodies like go outside and like experience life and and when I walked outside of that room it was it was like being born it was just everything that the sun in my face and like the smell of like the mountain air and trees everything was so rich and and in that moment I was just so happy to be alive so there's there's there's ways of doing it I mean the other stuff off the top of my head I have a friend who runs retreats and like this sound like this sounds crazy and super edgy but it was really powerful they they actually dug graves and and and they let these guys like blindfold and they like lay them down and then like put a piece of plywood over and was like putting dirt on them and they're you know and they read their names so they'd like all right here lies you know microstoskey and he was he was a good man and and and the person would be like laying in their own grave and and just like hearing what like other people have to say about them just like really experiencing that feeling and you know all the guys who experience that like wow that was just a life-changing exercise and you know and then just just being just being comfortable with death like being in in this country so like I'm gonna ask you a question in a second so like in this country like we are so afraid of death that like we do everything to like stay young right like Botox and all the surgery we like anytime our parents get old we we ship them off to the to like an old folks home and and and we don't even want to see death like like the fact that like faces of death is a thing it just shows like how afraid that we are of death and then even talking about death like I feel like there's been times when I've talked about it and I don't know that a mixer or something and people will look at me like I just like took all my clothes off like like I'm some sort of crazy person and and I think in this country like there's there's so like we were so afraid of death but in in other countries that's not the case like right so so she really like even in in India I was just talking to a friend like aren't there just places where like people go to die and like like whether it's it a river or like like am I totally off or well I know they throw their ashes in the Ganges that's that's an Indian tradition but you know it's interesting you're you know bringing up death obviously based on kind of the weekend that we you and I have had that it's there yeah I mean I you know I think you know there's I guess really it's one of those things where you have to realize that this is really just a one-shot deal like you know AJ Leon always talks about this is your one and only life what are you gonna do with it and you're right I mean I think we have we have a strange sort of fear of death and yet it's kind of one of those inevitable truths that it's coming I think the only difference between somebody who has a terminal illness and somebody like you or me is we just don't know the date on which it's gonna happen and somehow we live like we do you know I mean you remember Meg went warden she said you know we it was such a horrible thing to wait you know you're all have a life sentence on this planet and to wait until you leave it in order to be free is is probably the worst possible thing which is what I think about but yeah I mean I think that it's a it's such a complicated thing and yet you know I think that if we sit around waiting for the catalyst for our life to change for somebody to come and push us or something to happen somebody said I don't remember who was somebody on the show said you know you don't have to wait for your life to suck in order to start to change it and yet that's what so many people do yeah yeah I mean it's a lot of us are really comfortable like we live better than the kings of ancient history like we have we can walk into a supermarket and get like 50 different types of toothpaste and like food from all over the world and you know food fruits that aren't even in season just like the amount of choice like like we just yeah we live better than the kings of the ancient history so so for a lot of us like we're just so comfortable that you know it's like why would I why would I do any like work on myself for why would I you know it's like like life is good you know which which isn't a which isn't a bad thing like I I think if you're if you're always like choosing growth like if you're always uncomfortable then you know I I think there's a balance of of growth and and contentment but but yeah I mean it just in general like I think the reason why coaching is such a booming profession and the reason why like we're talking about conscious living and you know like and the reason why like you know podcasts like this even exist is because all of our basic needs are met like on that like Maslow's hierarchy of needs so you know so then the next step is self-actualization so that's why there there are like that's why I can do the work that I can do because there's a lot of guys out there who are have everything taken care of like all their finances are in order and they have a family but like they just still aren't happy so that's so like let's let's dive in and let's kind of dive in and you know figure out what's what's really going going on there but yeah no I I do I do agree and people you know people often get thrown into great change from from pain and there's just not I mean the there there is pain but it's like where's my iPhone charger or I'm out of I'm out of protein powder like shit I have to I have to like substitute something for my morning smoothie like like those are the problems that we have today so so for me as the practice like and it sounds crazy but like I purposely throw myself into uncomfortable stuff all the time and and it just it's made me just like a better man and and and I know like I'm not going to be doing this like all my life like I'm not going to be living all over the world and going to really intense workshops and like just like like writing about my entire life on the internet and just constantly choosing growth like I I have the hunch in five years I'll probably just be like a really happy content dad somewhere you know I'll be pretty like normal in terms of in terms of like what it in terms of like my like living situation and like what I'm doing but like all this work that I'm doing now is just preparing me to be like a better husband and a better father and a better leader in the community because if if I didn't go through all this stuff like I if I didn't dive deep into like death and and money and sex and like all this stuff that that I have triggers around and and I have shame around and weird beliefs around then these beliefs are going to carry you know with me through the rest of my life so so better to do it now when I'm a young man and and to do it now like when I don't have a family to worry about and and I mean I I think better to do it now is just always my like that's my motto it's like hmm like I can get this shit figured out in like 20 years or I can just just face it head first and and do it now and have it not be a problem or not be a hang up again so so yeah I mean for the so for people listening right now it's like why would you not like like why would you not get that piece figured out like whatever whatever it is like your your business or your sex life or your relationship with your parents or just just just like whatever is causing you pain you can either ignore it or you can face it head first and like dive into it with love so it's like why not you know it's like this is the one life that like the only thing that I know that's for certain right because people have all sorts of different beliefs on heaven and the afterlife and like past lives but like the only thing I know for certain is that I have this life and like I'm going to make the most of it yeah no doubt well Mike let's do this let's shift gears a little bit I want to start talking about the work that you do with men in particular you know one of the things that is always kind of intrigued me about you and why I wanted to have you on the show is that you've shed light in a conversation that nobody wants to have especially men you've gotten them to have it and you have also transcended a lot of the stigma that has typically been around this kind of work largely a byproduct of things like Neil Strauss's book the game and and you know men's magazines and then the way you know the way women are almost objectified in all of this especially in pop culture and somehow through your work you've transcended all of that which is always fascinated me and that's the part that intrigued me because you know I remember telling you last time we spoke when we didn't get the right audio that you know Manish jokingly calls you the men's coach for women because there's something really I think about your work that tends to appeal to women as much as it does men even though it's geared towards men so I really would love to hear one how that's happened you know and two I didn't get to really ask you about your your your year off of service but kind of how that has made itself into this work and and how it's influenced and shaped how you show up in the world and how you work with people Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with the price of just about everything going up during inflation we thought we'd bring our prices down so to help us we brought in a reverse auctioneer which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless have it to get 30 30 30 30 to get 20 20 20 20 20 50 15 15 15 just 15 bucks a month so give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 gigabyte CD tail hate your crime fans tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations good news with Amazon music you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your prime membership after all ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime to start listening download the Amazon music app for free or go to amazon.com/adfree true crime that's amazon.com/adfree true crime to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads yeah so I I think something that makes me different from some of the guys who teach men how to be more successful with women is I love women like I really I I've always been that guy in a room full of women so my I my mom like loved the hell out of me and I had such a great just connection and relationship with her and just like so much of who I am as a man I I I ode her like all my academic success and just like the way that I show up in the world like I owe a lot of that to my mom and and then I became a yoga teacher you know when I was 25 so you know it's like only do it in a room full of women again and I I'm a Martha Beck life coach and I I worked in human resources and in the corporate world and and I just I I just love women and and I think some of the guys that like get into the pickup space like kind of hate women and and and not and not that they're bad guys but like they're carrying a wound that happened maybe when they were young and like their moms like walked out on them you know like cheated on their dad or maybe they had they had some girl that cheated on them or some you know XY for some women that like broke up with them and and they're carrying and they're carrying that that wound like into their work and you know and so when they teach guys how to be more successful with women it's like it's through manipulation and it's through like just like I mean I can't even just like just I don't even want to say borderline it's just through like really manipulative tactics like manipulative psychological tactics like get women to sleep with them and and that just sucks like that just does no good in the world so so I like I think that it's like how how am I different like well like I actually love women and I like yeah like that's the the difference and and I am something that I'm really proud of today it's like I I have really great connections with with all women like not like just as a species like in general I mean there's there's some women like it's not like I have the perfect relationship with all women but just I have a lot of just like female friends and and and I'm able to like deeply connect with like my friends girlfriends and my friends wives just like without creeping on them and and and that's something I talk about to my clients a lot of like like you have to learn to like modulate your sexual energy you know so I think for most of my life I wasn't able to it's like anytime I talk to a girl like she would kind of feel because women their limbic systems are you know like way more developed than ours and and their intuition and and they can just tell when a guy is standing in front like when a man just like wants to sleep with them like they can just like kind of feel it in their body and and and I think just by being able to like learn to modulate that like it's it's opened up the whole world of women to me like I I can show up in a way I can you know it's like I can show up in a way that like like it's like my cocks kind of like turned off like like the like the like the energetics like around there it's like it's kind of like turned out turned off and but instead I just show up with like an open heart so like I show up like a like a brother or like one of their gay friends or something and and what's cool about that is like I'm able to just have really awesome friendships and and I'm able to have women in my life who like there's women in my life who like I can say like I love you but it's it's like they're like my sisters and and have and it's just great to have like that support from the feminine and and there's a lot of women who do support me and they like support me as a human being and they support me like in my work and and they give me good feedback too and and they they help me like when I'm not showing up well and my my greatest teachers have have been women have been like just really badass women who who call me out all my stuff and and you know and the same with and the same with men you know I my best friends and the people who I hold like you know the most dear to my heart are the ones who tell me when I'm messing up and and they're the ones that hold me to my heart to my heart like to the highest standard and it kind of makes me think of like watching you and Greg on stage you know when you're like man I hate these Tuesday meetings and Greg loves them but you know it's like they move my business forward and and you know I think a lot of the reason why that why the instigator experience why the event was just such an amazing success is like you guys just compliment each other so well so so for a guy a I'm thankful for people who help me show it better and and I have a lot of people like that in my life which which I think just just helps me play on a bigger stage and like helps me do better work and and I think that like just helps me kind of like stick out in in a field where there's you know honestly like there's some guys who are just like give me the creeps like there's guys who do this work on like like how to how to have bulletproof confidence with women and like the the 10 magic bullets to get in her pants and like I've met some of these guys and they're just like weird like they they're just really creepy and strange and like yeah they they sleep with a lot of women but like is do you want to spend your whole life just like banging like drunk 23 old girls at bars like that's you know that there's nothing wrong with that and I have no judgment and I you know I spent a lot of my 20s like having a lot of just drunk random sex but but there was a point in my life where where the the pleasure of just like having sex with a random stranger was was less than than the pain of knowing that like I was not giving myself fully or or the or the pleasure of just like you know just a random hookup was was less than than the pain of yeah of just not having something deeper or like not having someone to like really really pour my heart into and like really open up and and have like that that crazy awesome deep connection which which ultimately everybody wants like whether even if you're fooling yourself and I'll I'll hear people who pretend like oh you know I don't I don't want that like I just I'm all about just like banging chicks and you know and and and I I've even met women like that but I mean really I I think you're you're lying to yourself like you you want something more than than just like the physical act because when there's nothing better in my mind than fully connecting with another human being I mean at a physical like emotional spiritual level just like everything is connecting and then when you when you have like when you engage in a sexual union from that place then then that's just like that crazy awesome cosmic sex that I guess like staying talks about when he goes on Oprah and and and that is and like and that's possible like that is that is available to you as a human being but it it just it takes a lot of like courageous conversations and it takes a lot of opening up like for for the men that I work with like the stuff that I make them do is is really just be open to the world and be open to their partners and have courageous conversations and and they hate me for it and they're like no way I there's no way I can tell that to my wife and then and then they do and they're like we just had the best sex of our lives and just like I feel so connected to her now and it's but and it's like yeah of course you do because you're not lying to her and and and because you're being more more open about stuff and and the more that the more that I do this work and the more that I grow as a coach and a writer and an entrepreneur the the more that I just the more that I realize and like I I feel it in my body just how you know just telling the truth all the time is like it's it's scary but there's so much personal power that comes with it like I just I feel really powerful all the time and that's because I just kind of speak the truth all the time and and and it feels good because it's literally the opposite of what most of my life was and and and it took a lot of really hard work and and and I do not have it all figured out so I I think anytime anytime a man says you know what I I think I got it all figured out or I think I've made it like that's that's just danger that's when he's about to have a great fall or or that's when like he's that's when he says to the world you know what I got it all figured out and then he closes his mind and closes his heart and then he just stops growing so I I never want to stop growing like when I'm when I'm 70 years old I'll be I'll be learning how to be a 70 year old man and I'll feel like cool like this like I just just everything will be new just like everything is new all the time and and like when I when I show up at an event and like when I show up in a in a room I I always kind of like completely opened my mind and I and I always have complete beginner mind like even even if someone's been like doing work less like less time than I have or if someone's younger than I am or like even if even if I know that I've helped more people like like that doesn't matter that's just I I I learn things from people all the time like like kids like my my brothers friends all hang out with them and and they teach me stuff all the time and and I think it's it's really really dangerous and I think men men do that that a lot especially when they've achieved a level of financial success where they'll say yep I got it all figured out and and that's a really dangerous place to operate from in the world because because you're not growing and you're not open to to change and you're not open to like new perspectives yeah wow well Mike you know it's really this is amazing I knew it would be a great conversation and I'm actually really happy we had recorded a second time because I think you really packed this with so much insight into you know the way I see it is you know after hearing this really our relationships are one of our greatest personal growth engines and when I'm looking at my life I'm seeing how true that really is is that you know how I've grown is through not just through relationships with women but relationships with everybody and that's that's really powerful so I'm going to close with my my final question which you know you may have heard me ask before Mike in a world of this much noise our show is called the unmistakable creative how do you become unmistakable so I gave you a different answer the first time but what's what's sitting with me is just depth so so on the second interview we went a lot deeper than we did on the first interview and and in a relationship like the the sex gets better like the more you're you're with someone or in a friendship like it just gets deeper and deeper the longer it goes and the more that you share and and I I think just like depth is is something that's almost a lost art and in today's world of like instant gratification and when there's dating apps like Tinder and OKCupid where you can literally just like swipe right and swipe left and like pick a person based off of their you know it's like Amazon for humans and and and there's almost this like lost art of just like going really deep with someone and and and sharing like sharing what makes you a human being and being really present with someone and and just like really just showing up for for someone so so so for me it's like the the people that I surround myself with are those people who are willing to go uncomfortably deep my my coaches and mentors and and friends like they're the ones who are willing to go uncomfortably deep and when I say uncomfortably deep they're the ones who are like willing to talk about like really edgy stuff but it's like for the sake of our own development so when I think of like what makes you unmistakable I think it's depth yeah like that's what I'm really sitting with today it's it's depth and like the ability to go really deep and I remember Meg Ward and you know during the Q&A someone asked her a question and she said you just have to learn that I just hold space like a motherfucker just I mean really just really show up when someone's in front of you or really show up to a coaching client or really show up to like a podcast interview because there's a lot of just there's a lot of stuff out there there's a lot of podcasts and there's a lot of writers and there's a lot of life coaches and and if you're trying to if you're like using some some script or you're if you're like using some like template for doing your blogs or podcasts or like a template for your life then you're just gonna be you know like you're just gonna be a cookie cutter template like the same as everyone else doing that thing but if you just like show up fully and just like give your gifts unapologetically and speak your truth and like love with all of your heart and be really really really present to the person in front of you like you will stand out and you will stand out in a room and you'll stand out on an interview and you'll just completely stand out because everyone else is doing doing what everyone else is doing so so today as you ask that question I think depth is what makes someone unmistakable awesome Mike this has been really really mind-blowing and I'm actually very happy we had to do it a second time because I think it was a lot better I can't thank you enough for joining us and taking some of your time to share your insights with the listeners here at Unmistakable Creative I think people are gonna learn a lot from this conversation cool now thank you thanks for being an awesome guide and yeah and for everything that you created this this weekend at the life of that it was just just truly like one of the most amazing things I've been a part of so yeah thanks I thank you thank you for bringing depth into everything you do and and not settling for crap and and making us do another interview so this was I got a lot out of it so thank you awesome and for those you guys listening we'll wrap the show with that you've been listening to the unmistakable creative podcast visit our website at unmistakablecreative.com and get access to over 400 interviews in our archives have you ever felt a twinge of worry about AI taking over your job or diluting your creativity well what if you could turn that fear into creative fuel we've just published an amazing new ebook called the four keys to success in an AI world and this is more than just a guide it's a deep exploration into the human skills that AI can't touch the skills that are essential for standing out and thriving no matter how much technology evolved we're talking about real differentiators here like creativity emotional intelligence critical thinking and much more inside you'll find actionable insights and strategies to develop these skills whether you're a creative person a business person or just simply someone who loves personal development this isn't a story about tech taking over it's a story of human creativity thriving alongside AI picture this AI as your creative co-pilot not just as a tool but a collaborator that enhances your unique human skills the four keys ebook will show you exactly how to do that and view AI in a new way that empowers you instead of overshadows you transform your creative potential today head over to unmistakablecreative.com/4keys use the number four K-E-Y-S that's unmistakablecreative.com/4keys and download your free copy [BLANK_AUDIO]

Learning to look at your past through the lens of compassion
The dichotomy of tragedy and enlightenment in one event
How death can be one of your greatest teachers
Giving yourself space between tragedy and the rest of your life
How men become lonelier as they become more successful
Why mean are programmed not to ask for help
The power of making it up as you go along
What happens when you start living a lie
How love starts to change all of your painful stories
Finding a catalyst to make changes in your life
Why it’s important face your pain head first
Transcending the perceptions of mens’ work
An interesting look at the power of deep connections

Mike Hrostoski, The Men’s Coach, helps high performing men master their relationships with their women and their work. And he’s on a mission to make the world a better place one man at a time.

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