The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

The DNA of Entrepreneurs With Chris Ducker

Chris Ducker returns to the Unmistkalbe Creative to discuss his journey from humble beginnings to building a mutli 7 figure business in the Philliplines. We dissect the DNA of entrepreneurs and discuss his new book Virtual Freedom.

A look at the beginning of Chris Ducker’s journey
Why the journey is not a Cinderella story
The myths of the 4-hour workweek lifestyle
Why failures and setbacks make you stronger
The importance of having a buffer if you want to start
A defining moment that that will change your life
Why Chris always does something very big in January
Starting to develop an evacuation plan from your life
Understanding how we deal with the fear of uncertainty
Learning to reach a point of no return
Key stumbling blocks and moments in building Chris’ business
Why you must chase down the dreams that matter to you
How to become a leader that people will follow
The Virtual Freedom writing process
A real look at what it takes to work with virtual assistants
What happened when Chris completely burned out
Exploring the deeper motivations for why you’re in business
Chris Keys to Becoming Unmistakable in a World of Noise

Chris is a serial entrepreneur, virtual staffing expert, blogger, podcaster and author who helps other entrepreneurs catapult their businesses into the 21st century. He's also the author of Virtual Freedom: How to Work with Virtual Staff to Buy More Time, Become More Productive, and Build Your Dream Business.

Subscribe for ad-free interviews and bonus episodes https://plus.acast.com/s/the-unmistakable-creative-podcast.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Duration:: 1h 2m
Broadcast on:: 02 Apr 2014
Audio Format:: other

As you probably noticed, this month we're bringing you our "Life of Purpose" series and revisiting some of our most transformative episodes, tune in to explore expert insights and practical strategies on help, performance, and community well-being, all aimed at helping you achieve personal and professional fulfillment. If you sign up for the newsletter, you'll not only get recaps of the key ideas in each interview, but at the end of the series, you'll receive our free "Life of Purpose" ebook. What you have to do is go to unmistakablecreative.com/lifepurpose. I'm Srini Rao, and this is the Unmistakable Creative Podcast, where I speak with creative entrepreneurs, artists, and other insanely interesting people to hear their stories, learn about their molding moments, tipping points, and spectacular takeoffs. Discover Hydro, the best kept secret in fitness. Hydro is the state-of-the-art at-home rower that engages 86% of your muscles, delivering the ultimate full-body workout in just 20 minutes. From advanced to beginner, Hydro has over 500 classes shot worldwide and taught by Olympians and world-class athletes. For a 30-day risk-free trial, go to hydro.com and use code ROW450 to save $450 on a Hydro Pro-Rower. That's H-Y-D-R-O-W dot-com code ROW450. At Sprout's Farmers Market, we're all about fresh, healthy, and delicious. That's why you'll find the season's best local and organic produce handpicked and waiting for you in the center of our store. Visit your neighborhood Sprout's Farmers Market today, where fresh produce is always in season. It's so great to have you back here. You have always been a friend, a mentor, and some of the advice you've given me has been instrumental in where I've ended up. I probably mentioned it 1,000 times on the show. For people listening, tell us a bit about your story, your background, and how that has brought you to doing all the things that you're doing today. I tend to not try to raise to graces too much. Honestly, that's what I see myself as. As the last decade has gone by, I've started to remove that hat a little bit and wear a more solid serial entrepreneur type of hat. Ultimately, at the core, I'm just a marketing and branding small business guy that enjoys working with people and being around teams and developing teams and all that sort of stuff. My hardcore background is in the publishing industry. I was working for a very large company in the city of London for almost eight years. I learned a lot about business. Publishing is one of the most complex, irritatingly tough businesses to be involved with. I learned pretty much everything I know about sales, marketing, and branding, which is really my three big feathers in my cap, so to speak. I learned everything that I know today about those subjects working in the publishing industry. So yeah, 2000 came over here to the Philippines, started to school the local companies as well as some of the international companies here in regards to marketing and particularly over the last seven or eight years, I've worked with a lot of startups and a lot of distribution companies and that sort of type of thing over here in regards to their online presence. That's really what I'm about. You know, I'm the guy that will walk into a restaurant, see that there's a four-square sticker on the door, show the fact that I've checked in on four-square and look at the dumb, blank look on the waitress's face saying, "What's that?" And then I find out who owns that restaurant and says, "Do you realize how much money you're losing by not training your staff properly?" And then I make lots of money training their staff for them. So that's one of the things I do anyway. Well, I mean, a decade, right, as an entrepreneur, that's not a small amount of time. And you know, as we sit here and we talk like, you know, when we talk to people on the unmistakable creative, what we like to get into is the things that have molded them into who they are. I mean, you know, this doesn't set, you know, I think that people have this idea that the entrepreneur's journey is some sort of Cinderella story because we often don't see what goes into it. We only see the end result. And I want to talk about the stuff that's gritty and stuff that's ugly because I know you've talked about some of it before. I mean, so talk to me about sort of those kinds of moments on this journey, especially in the beginning because I think that we have gotten this idea in our heads that it's escaped from cubicle nation and it's all, you know, sipping on a beach and drinking margaritas while, you know, the money tree basically grows and I think you and I both know that's not true. No, it's complete BS. I mean, you know, for our work week was a great book. Let's talk about laptop and beach lifestyle for two seconds before I fall asleep through boredom. It's basically, it's a, it's a, it's a fast. Tim Ferris wrote an amazing book, which has ultimately fueled an entire generation of entrepreneurs. And for that, you have to give the guy massive amounts of mad props and a massive pat on the back. He's also come out with two other very, very strong books as well. So, you know, as a writer, as a publisher himself, I think that everybody that creates content as a publisher, regardless of somebody else, actually ends up publishing it for them or not. But I mean, you know, ultimately, he did a great job in, in, in turning on people to the entrepreneurial mindset and getting them thinking about stuff. But if you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you cannot do it from sipping margaritas on the beach with a laptop, right? You've got to roll up your damn sleeves. You've got to take several blows to the chin, maybe even a couple of knives in the back. And you've got to work your ass off for years before you can hit a real level of quote, unquote success. And I think, you know, every entrepreneur that I know personally, and I've become friends with, and I know about their background and how they've got to where they are. And I know, you know, I'm talking like millionaires. I'm talking people that have got, you know, screw you money, you know what I mean? All those people that I know like that have all had plenty of jabs to their chin and knives in their back. And it just makes you a tougher entrepreneur. It makes you a more successful entrepreneur in the long run as well. Well, let's talk about your blows to the face and the knives you've taken to the back. Exactly. Well, I mean, come on, Chris, you've been on my show before. You know that I'm going to drill you for everything that you've got. I mean, look, you know, for me, the beginning of this whole thing. And I had, you know, I had flirted with entrepreneurship for a while. I had started a couple of different companies. I had closed one at a loss. I had sold one at a profit. And then I went back into the corporate world for a couple of years. And I was working for an infomercial company. This was in 2000, when was it, 2005 or something. And I was working for an infomercial company for a guy over in Florida in Miami, super nice guy, really like cool, cool dude, you know, in his early 60s, super cool guy, you know, he's the kind of guy that, you know, when you come into town, there'll be a limo, like an actual stretch limo waiting for you. And instead of going to the, to the house where you're going to be staying with him for a month, he, he, he gets the driver to take you to the Hard Rock Cafe to see Prince's pre-Super Bowl show, like right from the airport, like, that's cool. That's the kind of guy you want to work for, right? No, it's not because that guy also was the biggest micromanaging nightmare that I've ever come across in my entire career, to the point where he was literally making me BCC him into every single email that I sent, so that he could see exactly what I was saying and who I was saying it to. It was a nightmare. Now, the reason why I stuck with it was because the money was so darn good. And I knew that if I did ever want to get out of this properly and forever that I needed, I needed some kind of buffer. I needed money in the bank. And so I put up with it. I put up with it for about a year and a half. And eventually I couldn't put up with it anymore. And at the end of one of those trips, I was on my way back from Miami going in the Hong Kong to get my connection here to the Philippines. And at 37,000 feet on the way to Hong Kong, I wrote my resignation letter. I hit the send button on that email when I landed at Hong Kong Airport. Best airport Wi-Fi on the planet, by the way. I'm serious, man. Nothing beats it. It's so freaking fast. It's ridiculous. And I never looked back. He was upset. He was really upset. But I never looked back. And that was several jabs to the chin over and over and over again. You know, there was a time when we were at Vegas for a conference. And you know, these are my clients, people that I've brought on board. This guy wouldn't let me get a word in the edge ways of meetings, even dinner meetings. Which by the way, I'm the king of the dinner table business meeting. Like I'm a self-proclaimed amazing host at dinner in business settings. And it was like I wasn't even there. It was like the chair was empty. Well, I've had dinner with you, so I know. But for me, that was just one jab to the chin after another after another after another. No stabs in the back from the guy. But it was enough for me to realize I never wanted to work for anybody else ever again. All right. So there's a lot of stuff I want to unpack here. Of course there is. Come on, Chris. You know how that goes. Really, I want to talk about this idea of the buffer, right? I mean, you're miserable, but you also knew that if you were going to get out of this for good, you were going to have to give yourself a viable buffer and you know something. It's what AJ Leon refers to as an evacuation plan. There you go. That's perfect. Yeah. Perfect. I think that really that is troubling for many people because it's this constant balance of wanting to get the hell out of the situation you're in and also knowing there's a dream at the end of it. I'm curious, you know, one, how do you maintain that balance? And two, I mean, what advice do you have for people in that situation? Because I guarantee you there's lots of people who are listening to this who are caught in between those two places that you're talking about, you know, the tyrant boss or the job they hate and on the other side, the potential for something amazing. But the thing is, if they make that leap too quickly, they're going to end up right back where they started. I know this because when I moved to Costa Rica in 2011, I did exactly that. I thought, all right, I've got just enough to go and live this four hour Greek lifestyle. And you know what? I remember when I think we sat down at New Media Expo in L.A. and I told you, I said, I think that I jumped the gun. And I remember you distinctly told me that it's time to stop thinking like a blogger and start thinking like an entrepreneur, but I don't want to get into that discussion. I want to get into this one about the evacuation plan. Yeah. I mean, I think what it is, and I love that turn. That's such a great turn. I'm totally going to steal that for a blog post or something. Sorry. Give AJ credit. Yeah. It's coming my way. No. I mean, I think what it is, man, is it comes down a lot. Once you realize that you want to evacuate, right, you want to pull the cord. That right there is a defining moment in itself. When you realize that you're too good for this shit, you know what I mean? There is more out there that you haven't even scratched at the surface, baby. I mean, we haven't even got started with my life. You know what I mean? That kind of mindset. And once you get that mindset, that in itself is a great moment to discover and you should enjoy that moment. So then you've got to very quickly and very remarkably get to the point where you start making plans. And not only have you got to plan your work, but then you've got to work that plan as well. And that for me is one of the biggest things that I do every single year. I sit down and I plan out three goals for the course of the coming year. There's a long-term goal, there's a mid-term, and then there's a short-term goal. And the short-term goal is a goal to make sure that I begin every single year with a bang. And that's my 30-day plan. Like, I will literally do something in January because I want to make sure that, you know, I'm off to a raging start right at the beginning of the year. This year I launched my personal branding bootcamp course. And it's been inside of me for two years. I eventually put it together and launched it. And I had over 100 people sign up in a matter of like three days. I just totally validated the whole idea of doing something like that. And I planned all of that work, and then I pulled the cord and I worked that plan. So, you know, the evacuation of a nine-to-five office wrapped into a fully-fledged entrepreneurial force, that could be a 30-day plan. Maybe you do have a little bit of money, maybe you've got an opportunity, and maybe you've been creating a side hustle for a while in, you know, in your basement in the evening or, you know, over the weekends or something like that. Maybe that evacuation is not going to be a one-year plan or a six-month plan. Maybe you can do it right now. But what's holding you back is, nine times that's in its fear, right? Fear of the unknown. What if it doesn't work out? What if I don't make enough money? What if my wife leaves me, you know, whatever the case may be, its fear is what it is. It stops most people from pulling that cord. And to say that I wasn't fearful of sending that email would be a complete understatement. I was shitting my pants to do that. And I'll tell you why. Not only even though I had the financial buffer in the bank, my wife had just got pregnant, right? First and foremost, I was delving into the realms of an industry that although I knew a lot of people within the industry, I didn't really know the industry. The industry itself very well and how it worked. So I had to go back to school for a little while, not physically go back to school. But I mean, I had to study up on this entire call center/recruitment industry. And you know, sometimes just saying what the hell, screw it. It's Richard Branson, you know, screw it, let's do it, kind of mentality. And I pulled the cord and I have never looked back and I think a lot of people, they live on what ifs. I can't stand those people. No, seriously, those people just pissed me off. They drive me nuts because you're sitting around, you know, you're sitting in the bar having a beer or a cocktail or whatever. You know, what if I'd have done that, you know, business back in 2006? What if I'd have left my first wife five years earlier? You know, what if, what if, what if, guys, you know, I don't like people. I don't like what if people, you know, not the negative type anyway, you know, what if we were to build something that revolutionized the way that people interact with each other? They're the kind of people that I want to hang out with, not the negative types. Well, you said something multiple times that I'm much more curious about. Like you said, you know, I never looked back and I think something happens, right? You reach a point of no return. For me, that took a long time to realize that I was never going to be able to go back. And I think that in a lot of ways, it's about basically going to, to a place that's pretty unsafe and uncomfortable because I think last year, you know, I jokingly said that 2013 was the year of my career suicide. And then I said, you know what? I had to commit career suicide in order for this career to come to life because it was necessary. I had to sever that part of who I was for good. And you said you never looked back and I don't think that that's that easy for many people. I honestly think there's something that has to happen in order for you to get to the point where you never look back. So how do you get to where you can you never look back? Because I know that the irony, like I told you, you know, we're talking before about the fact that, you know, hey, LinkedIn just contacted me to come and speak at their all hands and I'm thinking to myself, there's no more ironic place for me to do a corporate speaking gig than a place that's designed to help you find a job since I've been fired from every job I've had. Right. Right. There is your opening line. Oh, that's that's precisely we're going to be my opening line. I mean, it's good. I think that the defining factor, the defining moment of never looking back is your first stumble. Well, it was for me anyway. And, you know, let's talk about before I tell that story real quick. Let's talk about the never looking back thing. I don't know if there's any Star Wars geeks listening in here, right? But let me just. It's a podcast. I know, right? There's got to be a few. You're absolutely right. Episode one, little boy, Anakin Skywalker, saying goodbye to his mom as Qui-Gon Jinn. You can tell I'm a Star Wars fan, right? Qui-Gon Jinn is taking him off to start his Jedi training. And the mother says to the little boy, go now or what's this effect? Go now and don't look back. And that little kid, he walks away with his Jedi master and he doesn't look back at his mom. And that was the end of that journey and the beginning of his journey, which would obviously end in the dark side and all the rest of it. But, you know, at that point, that was, you know, this was now a changing point in this little boy's life and everybody around him, right? Same thing happened for me about four months after, unfortunately, I didn't become a Jedi. That would be so cool. I might have to title this interview the journey of an entrepreneurial Jedi. I like that. That's cool. But, I mean, like, it's the lightsabers, man. I want a lightsaber. It's that simple. But, I mean, I, there was four months into the journey with the live-to-sell group and we almost went bankrupt, literally. We ended up getting shafted by one of our clients that was paying us on a performance basis and, to come along story short, they said that X amount of work wasn't qualified that we had already qualified. I knew something fishy was up, so I started calling back these leads that we had generated for them and found out that the company that was our client at the time was actually meeting with them, was actually closing business with them, but they weren't paying us for the leads. So, we got shafted. There's a stab in the back right there. But it was a defining factor for a couple of reasons. Number one, it was a Friday night, it was around 10 p.m., and my wife logged on to our online banking, and she looked at the company account and realized that we only had enough money for two more payroll periods, so basically a month. And otherwise, we were going to go broke. And we were only four months into the business, right? So, we all know that 98% or whatever it is, the small businesses fail in the first year. Well, I was going for a record, baby, I wanted to do it real quick. And so, I had to hit the pause button, and I had to hit the eject button all at the same time, so I ejected the client and fired the client and ended up at that point that I was never going to work on a performance basis ever again as a service-based business. From that moment onwards, and we always have done since then, we have charged 100% in advance for all our services on a month-to-month basis. And there's not many people in our industry that do that, but that's the way we do it. So, that was the first defining factor, and it's such an amazingly huge silver lining right there. The second thing was I had to hit the pause button on my, at that point, 15-odd staff, because they were fully trained up. They knew how to do this work, but I wasn't going to be able to pay them for much longer, and I didn't want to lose them and have to start from scratch all over again. So, I basically put them on pause, and I turn around and said to them, "Give me two weeks, okay? Give me two weeks to turn this around. Please don't look for another job. I can't pay you when you're waiting. I can't do that, but please don't look for another job. Invest the next two weeks sitting at home watching TV in me, and I promise I'm going to invest the next six months, making you the best possible person that you can be doing what you do for me." And out of the 15 people that we put on pause, 13 came back two weeks later. Two people got jobs, so I was super happy with that percentage. And over that next two-week period, I did what I do best. I co-called like a ninja. And remember, we're in the Philippines, and my primary landscape is America, so I was co-calling through the night, I'd start work at 9pm and go through to 4.5 in the morning my time, and I co-called and co-called and co-called. I looked people up on directories, I was looking at websites, if I thought they could do with a customer service rep, or a lead generation expert, or whatever, I was just co-called like mad. And at the end of that two-week period, I closed almost 60 full-time employee seats for the bit, sorry, not 60, 20 full-time employee seats within that two-week period. Everybody came back to work, we hired a couple of extra people, we saved the company from going bankrupt, and by the end of that year, we were up to 60 full-time employees. And we started in March, so in March, April, May, June, July. So coming back into July, August, and then from August to the end of the year, we added another 40-year-old people. I mean, a total turnaround, and it was that stumbling block, it was that first stumble that I think really made me understand the importance of doing this on my own, and that's why I never look back. Awesome. Okay, so I love it. Two more questions come from this, which you should not surprise you by now. I'm ready to rock and roll, that's great. So here's the thing, on the stumbling block, right? I think there's two types of people who hit a stumbling block, those who experience what you did at a stumbling block, and the stumbling block ends up being defining and life-changing for them, and those who basically retreat at the stumbling block. And what I'm really curious about is stumbling blocks are inevitable in any journey, whether stumbling blocks are a part of life. This is not just an entrepreneurial story, this is a life story, and this is why I want to ask you about this, is how do you develop the mindset to navigate uncertainty, stumbling blocks, adversity, I mean, what do we have to do? Because I think that that is such a powerful skill, and it's not something you learn in school. There's just nothing, we're never taught that in any aspect of our life, and yet consistently the people who I see who do remarkable things have this as a part of who they are. Yeah, I mean, I don't even think you, I mean, I guess you probably pick a few things up along the way, but ultimately, I think you're born with it. I think entrepreneurs, great people, creative minds, geniuses, all these people that go above and beyond society, should we say, right, just the average Joe. I think we're born, we're not made, I think it's in our DNA, quite frankly, like I said, we pick things up, but we pick them up because we put ourselves in the situations where we allow ourselves to pick those things up, where other people are quite happy to sit in a cubicle for nine hours a day. We're not cubicle schmookicle, I mean, like, there's just, there's no way I could do that. And I think that's, I think that's the big difference between, you know, truly remarkable people and those that just sort of totalled through life. And for you guys listening in, you know, you're listening to this particular podcast because you want to be unmistakable, like you don't want to fit in. You want to be the square peg. You know what I'm saying? And I freaking love that. Oh my God, it turns me on so much. Your audience turns me on, Trini. I want you to. I'm sure that they're very happy to hear that, you know, basically what you should realize is that the context of that question could be really, or comment could be really warped. The overwhelming majority of our audience is female. Oh, ah, right, sorry, ladies. I love the fact that you're so passionate is what I meant. I know. I totally get it. You know what? I want to dig deeper into this last piece a little bit more because, I mean, the idea of something being, you know, it being something you're born with, you know, Greg Hartl and I have had this ongoing debate that has caused quite a stir among our listeners about talent and the fact, you know, his conclusion after three and a half years of being on the road and, you know, building the $10 in a laptop project, he used to believe that if anybody came to him, he and said, hey, I have the commitment to do this. They could make it happen. But then he said, you know what? I think there are certain people who are just built a certain way and born a certain way. And I think that, you know, you said that you pick up things along the way and then you put yourself in those situations and I think that people who put themselves in those situations are born to do it. Yes, exactly. It's in your DNA. It's not. You know, there are certain things that happen by coincidence, by, you know, luck if you want to call it that. But I think there are way more things that come our way in life that are meant to happen. I'm a big believer in fate, big, big believer in fate and also a big believer in karma. If you do bad things to other people, bad things will happen to you. And, you know, I'm very, you know, very kind of switched on to that mindset. So my focus as an entrepreneur ultimately is try to provide answers to questions and it's to provide solutions to problems and to help people and be a nice guy. And you know, I understand like, you know, I'm a little brash at times. I can, I can, you know, I can get in your face a little bit. I'll give you the kick up the ass that you need to make sure it happens. It's the kind of guy that I am. But at the core, I'm a really nice guy, like I'm a nice guy at the core. And I'm happy with that. You know, and I'm happy with feeling that way about myself and the fact that I know that people that really, truly know me know that as well. But, you know, I think that ultimately it all comes down to mindset. And then, you know, realizing when you're in a particular mindset that it's okay to be that way, like if you're okay, if you're all right, being a cubicle rat, that's cool. Get back in the crew, get back in the cubicle, you know, that's, that's okay, the society's not going to look down on you. That's cool. But if you do want to do something different, if you do want to be unmistakable, if you do want to be remarkable in any capacity, then you should chase it down. You really should. I use that phrase all the time, chase it down because it ain't going to land in your lap. Mark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from uncommon goods. The busy holiday season is here and uncommon goods makes it less stressful with incredible hand-picked gifts for everyone on your list all in one spot, gifts that spark joy, wonder delight and that it's exactly what I wanted feeling. The scour of the globe for original, handmade, absolutely remarkable things. Last year, I found the perfect gift for my nephew, periodic table building blocks. These blocks were a big hit and considering he was talking in full sentences before he even turned to, I'd say that's a pretty good win. They're not just educational, but also a fun way to spark his curiosity. Uncommon goods has a knack for offering gifts that are truly memorable, unique and make every occasion special. When you shop at Uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. When you shop at Uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches, so shop now before they sell out this holiday season. Uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality, unique and often handmade or made in the US. They have the most meaningful, out-of-the-ordinary gifts, they even have gifts you can personalize. From holiday hosts and hostess gifts to the coolest finds for kids, to hits for everyone from book lovers to die-hard sports fans, uncommon goods has something for everyone, not just the same old selections you could find anywhere. And with every purchase you make at Uncommon goods, they give one dollar back to a non-profit partner of your choice. They donated more than three million dollars to date. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com/Unmistakable. That's UncommonGoods.com/Unmistakable for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon goods, we're all out of the ordinary. Discover Hydro, the best kept secret in fitness. Hydro is the state-of-the-art at-home rower that engages 86% of your muscles, delivering the ultimate full-body workout in just 20 minutes. From advanced to beginner, Hydro has over 500 classes shot worldwide and taught by Olympians and world-class athletes. For a 30-day risk-free trial, go to hydro.com and use code ROW450 to save $450 on a Hydro Pro-Rower. That's H-Y-D-R-O-W.com, code ROW450. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down, so to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile Unlimited. Premium wireless. Have it to get 30-30, get 30, get 30, get 20-20, get 20-20, get 20-20, get 15-15, 15-15, just 15 bucks a month, so... Give it a try at Mint Mobile.com/Switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. Detail. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that you brought up the idea of if you do want to stay in the cubicle society doesn't look down upon you, because I think it's funny we talked about the 4-hour work week. I think for a while, we as internet entrepreneurs and people who have built stuff online and microphones, we've perpetuated this mantra to a fault almost. I think it's made people miserable. Right. Yeah, I'd agree. I'd agree. And yeah, I think that that's okay. I think you can easily be unmistakable in the context of whatever it is that you're doing. It doesn't matter if it's a day job. Yeah. I mean... Yeah. I agree. It's about how you approach it. Yeah. It's about how you approach it. Right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So one other question around this last part of the story, and then we'll start getting into kind of what's been going on in the last couple of years, you know, I really appreciated that you brought up this idea of people didn't leave you. They stuck with you. And as a leader, I think that ability to get people to buy into your vision, to stick with you, I don't care what you're doing. I don't care if you're an employee. I don't care if you're building a nonprofit. I don't care if you're building, trying to build a blog. Getting people to buy into you and to support you. Like somebody... Maybe it was Meg Borden who told me nothing of great significance is achieved without the help of other people. And you got people to do that. What do you think it is as a leader that we need to develop or as leaders, we need to develop to get that from the small armies that we're building? I asked a great question, and I see myself as a leader with two different hats on, right? So the first leader is that of a boss, okay? I've got about 270 odd people working for me now. I don't interact with all of them, not even on a semi regular basis. But I have a core team of about 35 people that are at my management team level, different levels obviously within that team. But I interact with all of those on a very regular basis and with about 10 of those on a weekly basis. That's the way that I've been able to grow the business is by not remaining in all those different areas and working with all those different people. It's just impossible. He couldn't do it. Like you say, nothing of great significance is achieved without surrounding yourself with amazing people and growing your team. And that's exactly what I'm all about. So that's the first half of me as a leader is to lead not only my business, but my people. And that's my army right there. I'm the guy that when I speak to a small business owner, I say, okay, so what are your three main priorities in business? And they say, well, I want to bring in more business. And then obviously I want to take care of my existing clients. And I want to take care of my team as well, my employees. Well, I'm the guy that turns out on its ass, literally, right over. And I said, well, first and foremost, you've got to look after your team because they're your army. They're the ones that are running your business for you. They're the most important people in your business, not your customers, believe it or not. That's the way it is. Secondly, you've got to look after your existing customers because they're already through the door. You've closed them already. They've started with cash. They deserve your attention. And then lastly, you should be focusing on getting new business. And sometimes when I say that to people, they're like, no, I don't understand it. You can't grow without bringing on board new business first and all this sort of stuff. So that's, you know, I think as a leader, you've got to turn stuff on its ass every now and then. And I try to do that quite regularly with my team. Now that's the first level, right? The other side of me as a leader is that to my audience online, which I've been so blessed to grow over the last four years of being actively, you know, blogging and podcasting, you know, I never would have thought that I'd be running, you know, a blog and doing podcasting and writing a book and doing like, if you'd have asked me five years ago, I thought you were high, literally. I just, I couldn't, no, honestly, I couldn't see myself doing any of this stuff. But the fact of the matter is now that it actually has now developed into my focus. It's what I want to do. I want to write blog posts. I want to write books. I want to speak on stage. They're my three try. That's my trifecta in my career now going forwards, you know, the businesses on the back end, I'm lucky, excuse me, that I've been able to put the processes and the systems in place and the procedures in place internally to be able to continue to run and grow those businesses without being around all that much. I'm very lucky for that. So that's the second side of me as a leader is to my audience and, and, but I'm also always very switched on to the fact that anything that I do online is very much guided by my audience. Like your audience will ultimately decide what the business of you becomes if you're online. Mm hmm. I'm a big believer in that. And you know, that's why I put the branding boot camp together because I started to get tons of questions about how I was building my personal brand. I was doing where the focus points should be in building a brand online. So instead of just answering the same questions over and over again by a Twitter and email, I decided to put a course together and provide an incredible amount of detail in regards to that and sell it, make money off it at the same time. I'm an entrepreneur, a business owner, you know, so let me answer all these questions. Let me provide a solution to this problem, but let's make some money at the same time, right? The right kind of audience that is telling you what they need help with, they'll be more than happy to part with harder and cash for it. More than happy. Now, it knocks me off because there's so many people online doing stuff for free all the time. If you want to be an influencer in today's world, you must be seen to sell. It builds authority to sell. I'm a big believer in that. I'm not saying you got to sell every single thing that you put together and get out there, but eventually you have to start asking for the order, and this is my hardcore sales background coming back in the play now. You can't give, give, give, give, give, give, give forever and be successful. You've got to make money somewhere along the lines, and by making money, it allows you to pump more back into your vision and into the audience and into your businesses, which then ultimately ends up giving even more value in the long run to those people as well. So it's a win-win for everybody. Yeah, I really love that you brought up the idea of one. You have to ask, and I think that we see that as a bad thing, and it's not. I realize the fact that we've gotten to ask, yeah, people bought my book, but the great thing about everything that came from that book, Greg told me, he said, "Look at this." He said, "You're hiring people to do freelance work for us." He said, "Do you realize how valuable that is?" He said, "You're putting back into the system." I said, I think a few weeks ago, I titled an essay I wrote on Facebook called Feeding the Ecosystem. I said, "You know, the first place we always look when we're looking for a resource is our listener base, because we're like, we wouldn't be here without them." Right, and they're tuning into you because of the connection that they've got with you, and you, in turn, get to know your audience, and this is my P2P philosophy that I talk about all the time, and I have done for the last couple of years. I dropped this philosophy for the first time at the beginning of, let me get this right, the beginning of 2012, I think, at Blog World in my presentation. I was actually talking about virtual assistants and how to utilize VAs in regards to content marketing and repurposing. It was a great session. It was very well attended and lots of questions at the end, lots of great tweets and everything, so I know it was a quote-unquote successful presentation, but the one thing that everybody kept coming back to over and over again had nothing to do with VAs in any way whatsoever. It came down to this P2P philosophy, and that is that people-to-people relationship-building mode that you must get into today if you want to be successful online, because if you think about it logically, people are way more likely to believe their own opinions before that of anybody else's. However, social media is changing that. It's decades old, but it's changing that because we are now to the point where we are way more likely to believe another person's opinion or another referral from another person, for example, than we would have maybe 10 years ago, particularly people that we've never even met, but we've connected with online. If I go out on Twitter and say, "Hey guys, I'm looking for a good video host company. Can anybody suggest anything?" I'll get 30 tweets that day back with suggestions. Some of those people I would have met and converse with face-to-face. Some of those people I would never have met face-to-face, but I've got to know online through either the comment section of my blog or whatever the case may be. I'm more likely to believe the people that I've never met before face-to-face because of the relationship that I have with them, that P2P connection that I've developed with them online over a course of either months or years. I think that it's important to listen, and I love the fact that you bring that up about your audience, man, because it shows that you're extremely in tune to that P2P philosophy. It's not just about giving back to your audience, it's about taking from them as well. I'm not talking about money here. Everybody think I'm just a money-grabbing guy. Who's this sucker? All he wants is our money. We're not going to go to his website. No, it's not just about giving to them, but it is about taking from them as well. When I say that, I mean, they've got their opinions, they've got their suggestions, they've got their references that they want to give to you. If you ask for that sort of type of information and you act upon some piece of info that somebody within your audience gives you, reward that person, get them on the show or retweet the latest blog post or send them a bottle of wine or whatever, and I love that. I love that sort of stuff. Speaking of referrals, I jokingly say, I've never gotten a book deal that I've introduced plenty of people to literary agents to make book deals happen. Let's start talking about where this has led you, because one of the byproducts of this entire story is a new book. Correct. What's the question? Let's talk about the book. For those of you who don't know, I did introduce Chris to his literary agent. I had to say that, and I thank you for it. Yes, you have multiple. I'm in the book. I told you. I remember. I remember when I wrote the email, I said, all I want is a mention in the thank you's. And for everybody listening in, he didn't pay for it, I just want to clap for it. I'm not that money grabbing, like I said, no, I give you a very, would you like me to read it out? No, no, that's okay. I'm not that vain. No, but you did, because I had been offered, I call it a book deal. It was a bit of a weak offer, to be honest with you, but I was offered something a few years ago, and I pushed it back because I didn't feel, I mean, A, I didn't feel like I was good enough writer, okay, first and foremost. Secondly, I wasn't ready because I was too busy building up additional businesses and just working with clients and doing lots of other cool fun stuff. So I didn't really have the time. But then in late 2012, you and I had that conversation, and you turn around and said something to me along the lines of, do you need to write this book now? Like people need it now. You've got to do it now. So I don't even know where to start, I mean, what do I do? And so, well, I'll introduce you to a literary agent of mine. Okay, great. So you introduced me to Christina, we had two conversations, I'd never spoken to a literary agent before in my life, so I didn't really know what to expect. And I signed with her immediately, and that wasn't me sort of wanting to get a book deal. That was me just feeling really comfortable with her and following my gut, which I've done on countless occasions in my career, and it's never truly let me down. If you think about it, you're more likely to regret saying yes than you will do from saying no to always listen to your gut, always. And I spoke with her, we signed, and we worked on a proposal together over the course of a long weekend. We were both happy with it, and she started shipping it out to publishers. We sent it to 16 different publishing houses, and we got four offers in the space of about three weeks. Amazing. So 25% buy-in, I couldn't believe it, because I'm sitting there thinking, well, if the four-hour work week, which is now on international number one bestseller, gets turned down 26 times before somebody picks it up, I hope in hell, I'll get in my book published, I'll end up just self-publishing it, or never doing it at all, one or the other, right? But we got four offers, and it was the last offer that we ended up taking. It wasn't the biggest, I want to clarify that, but it was definitely the one that turns me on the most in regards to the overall vision of what the publisher had for the project and for the book itself. And yeah, here we are in a traditional publishing, long journey, but here we are a year and a bit later, and we're about to launch it, launch is on April 1st. So I'm stoked. Amazing. So a couple of questions, one, let's talk about, I mean, you mentioned that I basically said you've got to write this book, and one of the things I never forgot you told me when the publisher got the first pass was this is like that outsourcing section on the four-hour work week on steroids. So talk to me about your personal motivation for why this book had to get out into the world. I mean, other than me saying you've got to write this book, because there's got to be something burning inside of you, like, I've realized you don't just write a book because it's like, hey, everybody else wrote a book, so I should write a book too. I think, you know, one of the useful, one of the useful things that Guy Kawasaki told me is you'd write a book because you have something to say and clearly you. But something, I feel like there's something more than just, hey, I'm Chris. I know all this stuff about outsourcing. What's the deeper reason that you felt compelled to put this book out into the world and give birth to it? I mean, there was a couple of things. The first thing was that there was just so much crap floating around online in relation to outsourcing and virtual assistance and all this sort of stuff, particularly in, you know, in the wake of the four-hour work week coming out and everything. And I just, you know, I was reading these blog posts. I was looking at these, you know, these videos that people were posting, and they were just full of BS, like, you know, nobody works for a buck 50 an hour in the Philippines, nobody. Like nobody works for a buck 50 an hour. So don't tell people all around the world via the internet that they will do because it doesn't work that way. You're selling dreams that won't come true. The other thing was that, you know, there was this myth that one virtual assistant could run your entire business for you. I call it the super VA myth in the book. And that's also complete rubbish. I mean, you think if you build a house, you hire a head contractor who then subcontracts the plumbing, the electrical, the roofing, the plastering, you know, because that head contractor is not an expert in all those things or as high as people that are. And so, you know, that super VA myth was really starting to drive me nuts, to be honest with you, because it was cropping up way too often. So they were the sort of the practical reasons as to why I wanted to do it. But then there was the personal reason. And I think that was the driving force above and beyond everything else was that late 2009 I hit a wall, I burnt out, I was working 15, 16 hour days, and I ended up being no good to anybody for about a month. And that's when I put together my plan and become a virtual CEO by the end of 2010. So this is before you and I met. And that's when I started blogging as well in January 2010. And so... Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced that they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Go to try at mintmobile.com/switch $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of detail. At Sprout's Farmers Market, we're all about fresh, healthy and delicious. That's why you'll find the season's best local and organic produce handpicked and waiting for you in the center of our store. Visit your neighborhood Sprout's Farmers Market today where fresh produce is always in season. It was hitting that wall, it was burning out, it was becoming sick and not spending any time in my family and realizing that I was no longer running my business, but my business was running me that made me make all those changes that year to remove myself from the business as much as I possibly, physically, spiritually, emotionally could. And I achieved that goal. I'm very happy to say I am still living that way now. And I realized I wasn't the only person in that boat. There were tens of thousands of other entrepreneurs all around the world feeling like that as well because they found my blog and they told me and they've continued to tell me that over the last four years. So that was the real reason behind putting together virtual freedom was because I wanted to show other people how they can do it. Being 16 hours a day, seven days a week, becoming stressed and unfit and unhappy does not make you a more successful entrepreneur. It just makes you a more stressed, unhappy entrepreneur. And I needed to tell the world back, simple as that. I love it. I mean, that's why I asked the question because I remember there was, I remember there was a much deeper motivation for this and I really appreciate that you brought up kind of, you know, the fact that you hit a wall and I like the fact that, you know, there's a focus on personal reasons as much as there is a practical one here. It's got to be. There's got to be because there's a direct correlation between everything you do business-wise or seep into your personal life, whether you like it or not, so it's got to be there. Yeah. Well, that's why, you know, I think that like it's very tempting to do things because you see it working for somebody else. And your thought is, oh, I just, I'm going to do it because it looked like it worked for somebody else. You know, people might see us putting on a conference and think, oh, I should go do that. And I can tell you it's the most thankless experience ever, like the process of putting it together. But it was one of those things I just, I couldn't not do it. Like there was a, it was like just near and dear to my heart. I was like, you know what? I am going to enjoy the byproduct of this and I'm going to enjoy the experience of it's so much that I have to do this. Right. And I think that that's, that's really, really important. But, you know, I appreciate that you brought up that also you knew, you know, you knew you had a wall because sometimes I think that we hit a wall and we don't realize it. Like we've gotten so, you know, into such a place of sleepwalking. And I'm wondering if you're in that place, is there a way to wake up? Hmm. That's a good question. I think, I mean, you will wake up, hopefully, I mean, hopefully not with cancer. No, hopefully not with some horrible disease or, or, you know, a family that's disappeared on you or something like that, God forbid. But I mean, no, it's, it's a good question, man. I think, you know, there comes a time in every entrepreneur's life when you've got to make a choice, you'll hit a crossroads. And for me, it's a clear crossroads. It's a clear choice. Left or right, there's no going forward, left or right, you need to make a choice. You're either a going to break down and maybe lose everything or, you know, you turn to the other, in the other direction and you start building a team, you start building people around you that can genuinely help you run support and grow your business. And that's what I did. And that's what I talk about in the book. And that's what I advocate for entrepreneurs, no matter where they are on the planet, because there's just absolutely no way that you can build a successful, profitable, long-term business without help from other people. There's no need to try and do it on your own, because I'm turning you right now, eventually you will fall flat on your bloody face and fail horribly. It just will happen. It's not a matter of if, it's just when. Well, I think that, really, this is a beautiful way to sum up our conversations. Of course, I'm going to ask you one last question and then we'll close things up. In a world of so much noise, I mean, you and I have been at this since 2009 and here we are five years later, things have changed a lot since then. So my question for you is, we've got more gray hair. We definitely have more gray hair. I mean, according to your profile picture that I'm looking at, you don't have much hair at all. It's not really at all. Yeah, absolutely right. Sorry to cut you off. So how, in a world like this, do we become unmistakable? How do we become, you know, we do it by being ourselves, man. You know, when I launched my first blog, Virtual Business Lifestyle, which is how you and I met initially, I was not the real Chris Ducker. I was holding back. I was holding back on everything from just plain, good old speaking, my mind right the way through to the language I was using to the way I was presenting myself in videos and all the rest of it. Because I was worried about what my customers were going to think. I was worried about what my employees were going to think, everything. I just wasn't myself. And in 2012, mid-2012, I made the switch to ChrisDucker.com and I decided to stop talking about the whole lifestyle, design, work-life balance thing, which I enjoyed for a couple of years. But I just, I got bored of it, quite frankly, and I decided just to be me. And that's exactly what I've done ever since. And the moment I flipped that switch and decided to focus on my brand and being me was the moment when everything took off, like everything. The book deal, the speaking career, just absolutely catapulting. I mean, I think I'm on like 12 different stages this year or something around the world. It's insane the way that's launched. The blog, the traffic, the subscribers, the business, the money, the opportunities, the happiness, everything, because I was just being me. And it's funny, I do these one-day business breakthrough events with Pat Flynn. Whenever I'm in the United States, we put one on in San Diego. And this is the defining moment of really everything I've worked on for the last few years. Somebody said there's 25 entrepreneurs in the audience. We do them in a very kind of limited, exclusive setting, these one-day events. And then somebody said to me at the end, because we always asked the audience at the end for five minutes of feedback in regards to what we could have done better throughout the corpse of the day. And one lady turned around and she said, "You guys absolutely could not have done anything better. This is exactly what we needed." And what I really loved was that there was two completely different people, two completely different personalities up in the front of the room, helping us, talking us through these things, brainstorming with us. You've got Pat, the nice kind of super structured, strategic kind of guy who is there to sort of put his arm around you and make you feel good, and you can do it, you can do it. And then you've got you, Chris, who is the, "Stop making excuses, get up off your ass and frickin' do it," kind of guy. We love that, and that contrast of different personalities worked so well. And I realized at that point, we've done a couple of them now, but that was on the first one, and I realized at that point that I had achieved exactly what I'd set out to do a couple of years ago in regards to building my brand, and that was being me. And I'm more than happy to give anybody a kick up the ass any time of the day if I feel they need to do it. And so, you know, send me a tweet. I'll kick up the ass. Well, I can attest to that first hand, if you've given me more than my hand with my fresh hair. Yeah, and you're still talking to me, so, you know, it's good. Well, Chris, this has been absolutely fantastic. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share some of your insights with the unmistakable creative listeners. Congratulations on everything. I mean, seriously, it's been really a pleasure to have you here back for, I guess, a third time, and, you know, I'm honored to call you both a friend and a mentor. Well, thanks, man. It's been nice to catch up properly. We don't do it enough. I think we should just do this and just hit record every time. And we could just, we could rap like this for hours. I thought that we could. And thank you, again, for all of your support in regards to virtual freedom and, you know, getting the word out about the book and just generally just helping to even just get the entire journey started. I really appreciate your love and support. Awesome. And for those of you guys listening, we'll wrap the show with that. You've been listening to the Unmistakable Creative podcast. Visit our website at unmistakablecreative.com and get access to over 400 interviews in our archives. At Sprouts Farmers Market, we're all about fresh, healthy, and delicious. Step into our bulk department to scoop up as much as you like from hundreds of bins filled with wholesome grains and limited time goodies. Visit your neighborhood Sprouts Farmers Market today where flavor fills every scoop. Have you ever felt a twinge of worry about AI taking over your job or diluting your creativity? Well, what if you could turn that fear into creative fuel? We've just published an amazing new ebook called "The Four Keys to Success in an AI World." And this is more than just a guide. It's a deep exploration into the human skills that AI can't touch. The skills that are essential for standing out and thriving, no matter how much technology evolved. We're talking about real differentiators here like creativity, emotional intelligence, critical thinking, and much more. Inside, you'll find actionable insights and strategies to develop these skills, whether you're a creative person, a business person, or just simply someone who loves personal development. This isn't a story about tech taking over. It's a story of human creativity thriving alongside AI. Picture this AI as your creative co-pilot not just as a tool, but a collaborator that enhances your unique human skills. The Four Keys ebook will show you exactly how to do that and view AI in a new way that empowers you instead of overshadows you. Transform your creative potential today. Head over to unmistakablecreative.com/fourkeys. Use the number four K-E-Y-S that's unmistakablecreative.com/fourkeys and download your free copy. [BLANK_AUDIO]

A look at the beginning of Chris Ducker’s journey
Why the journey is not a Cinderella story
The myths of the 4-hour workweek lifestyle
Why failures and setbacks make you stronger
The importance of having a buffer if you want to start
A defining moment that that will change your life
Why Chris always does something very big in January
Starting to develop an evacuation plan from your life
Understanding how we deal with the fear of uncertainty
Learning to reach a point of no return
Key stumbling blocks and moments in building Chris’ business
Why you must chase down the dreams that matter to you
How to become a leader that people will follow
The Virtual Freedom writing process
A real look at what it takes to work with virtual assistants
What happened when Chris completely burned out
Exploring the deeper motivations for why you’re in business
Chris Keys to Becoming Unmistakable in a World of Noise

Subscribe for ad-free interviews and bonus episodes https://plus.acast.com/s/the-unmistakable-creative-podcast.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.