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She's designed everything from accessories to home decor and jewelry with a recent foray into textiles. Listen in as Megan talks to me about her evolution as an artist and her creative process. Today's episode of the Unmistakable Creative is brought to you by cells. It's S-E-L-Z dot com. If you're looking for an alternative to PayPal that can be used to collect payments for digital products, physical products and even services, cells is a fantastic option. There's no programming, no special templates or special themes needed and they recently even added the ability to give your customers a pay what you want option. Many of the Unmistakable Creative listeners are already using cells and absolutely love the product. Megan, welcome to the Unmistakable Creative. Thanks for taking the time to join us today. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah. I mean, we have you back to the show for a second time. I mean, you were formerly a guest when we were called Blogcast FM, but I'm really, really thrilled to have you back because I think that you're very distinctive as an artist and somebody I thought that people would learn a lot from. So let's start really with the beginning of all this. Tell us a bit about yourself, your background, your story and how that has led you to doing the work that you're doing today. Yeah. So I'm one of those people who was really lucky and I've always been an artist and I've always been creative and I always had family that encouraged and supported me. So I wasn't drawing lessons by this time I was maybe five or six. I can't even remember when I didn't paint when I was a kid. I always made things. I was very crafty. So I always did all of that, but I also was, I was interested in business even when I was a little kid. I used to actually play business. I had a, I think I had a confetti business in fourth grade where I sold hole punched confetti to the girls in my class. So, and you know, at one point in my life, I think I wanted to be the first woman president. So I've kind of had all of these different interests growing up. But by the time I was in high school, I, I really knew that I wanted to go to school to study art and I thought that I was going to go to school to study painting. It was sort of what I loved, what I did. And so my senior year of high school, I was enrolled in this arts magnet program at the local community college. And we had these Friday workshops where we would learn different crafts, other things that weren't covered in our main classes. And one of the first things we did was lost wax cast rings. And so for those people who don't know how, how, how a certain type of jewelry is made, you carve wax and then it gets, the wax gets burned out in a mold and then you, you pour silver into it and that's how you make a ring. And so we did this and I thought, you can go to college for this. That's awesome. Sign me up. And fortunately, it was early enough, my senior year of high school that I started applying to colleges specifically because they had metals and jewelry programs. And so I actually ended up going to Syracuse University and majoring in metalsmithing. And it actually says that on my diploma, I think it's like the coolest thing ever. It says you have a BFA in metalsmithing, which, you know, not many people have, so I'm pretty proud of that. Cool. Well, you know, let me ask you this, you know, one of the things that's interesting is this idea of always being creative, even when you're a kid. And I've talked to a lot of people about this. It's funny because I think that what drives so much of what is going on in the world around us today is this inherent desire to tap back into that. Like it's something that gets lost, I think, with so many adults because, I mean, we, you know, we go about day-to-day life and being creative isn't practical for most people. You know, that's what I mean. I literally, I got an email from somebody who read my book and he said, this is all well and good. But he said, if it doesn't make any money, I don't see the point. It's not, you know, of course, I completely disagree with that. But as somebody who has had this, you know, be such an integral part of your life, I mean, how do we, you know, what do you think about getting even how we get back to that? Yeah. You know, the back to that is a little bit hard for me. And so the question that I always want to ask at least for starters is how do we not lose it in the first place? So if you are someone who has kids or someone who is around, you know, people who are creative, how do we keep people from losing that in the first place? Because it's actually, it's so much easier to never lose it than it is, than it is to get back to it. And so, you know, I was really fortunate that my parents were super, super supportive. You know, when I said I wanted to be a painter, they were like, okay, you know, what can we do to make that possible? I did a, you know, summer program at the University of the Arts in Philly. You know, I did the Arts Magnet program at my community college. They were very, very supportive. And then when I came home and I said, okay, I want to be, you know, a jewelry designer, I want to be a metalsmith, they were like, I think secretly they did a little like, ooh, like sigh of relief, because they thought that was more employable until I started bringing home like these really crazy wearable things that really only I would call a necklace. And then they were like, oh, maybe she should have been a painter. But they never said that. They always were like super, super, super encouraging. So I think if you see someone who's creative, it's really important to keep encouraging that. But I will say as someone who recently started painting again, so I had, you know, I'd been painting all through high school. And then when I got to college, I actually didn't really paint anymore just because I was taking other classes. And I started painting again about two years ago. So not quite two years ago now, my mother passed away. And so obviously that was kind of a really big deal in my life. And she was a painter. She was an artist. She's the one who encouraged me my whole life. And so I started actually just carrying around my paints. So this is pretty telling. I actually kept all of my paints from like 10 years ago. They were in the basement. And so I started actually carrying them around in the trunk of my car thinking like I'm going to paint again. I'm going to paint again. And it was actually, you know, a couple of months before I finally did it. And then finally one day, just the urge to do it was so strong that I couldn't not do it anymore. And the things I painted were pretty bad. And so I think that that's the one thing that if I was going to encourage someone who was getting back into something, like it's okay if it is terrible, like it's totally cool because you have to start somewhere. And I think we get these expectations that, you know, we see things if you're online and you're a visual person, you see things that are fantastic and you want to make that fantastic thing right from the beginning. And that fear keeps you from doing anything at all. So I think, you know, being prepared to make some really bad stuff is a good way to get back in. And then the other thing I would say is for me, you know, I've been an educator most of my life as well. You know, I taught at a university for a number of years. And I really think that taking classes really does really can be a good way to jumpstart you. And there's amazing online classes now so that you can learn skill and technique without ever having to show anyone what you're working on, which is great in the beginning. So when I decided to start painting again, I actually took a couple of online painting classes just because it was a way to sort of like remind myself of what I was doing, you know, shake the dust out and just kind of jumpstart what I was doing. Well, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I did this project, I think you've followed me on Instagram where I gave myself 30 days and I said, I'm going to teach myself how to draw and 30 days I was excited about seeing that. Yeah. And of course, you know, everybody, my ongoing joke was this week I draw like a first grader next week. I draw like a second grader. I don't think I ever made it past the second grade level. But it was actually, you know, it was cool that I had a resource so available to me just to play and to explore and to really just keep building on scale. I mean, I chose to make it very public just for kicks, but you don't have to, which is really useful. You know, I want to actually get back into like the entire creative process, especially with metal smithing. There's something about making things with your hands that for some reason I feel it does something to us creatively. I mean, I, you know, the closest thing I've experienced to that a few weeks ago, I went and I bought a Lego set and I was at the White House. And that was actually one of the most fulfilling things I've made in the last few years. I was like, oh, I built the White House out of Lego and it was just a blast. But I'm, you know, really curious about how, how that whole process of making things with your hands influences your creative process in general, I mean, what does that look like? I mean, do you start like a hunk of metal and mold it into jewelry and then also deciding that, hey, this is, you know, you said something earlier, you said, hey, you know, I'd bring home something that most people wouldn't call a necklace, but I did. And I really want to dig deeper into this because to me, that's, you know, making something from nothing is really what art is about. Yeah. So I totally agree with you that that power of making something is so transformative. And actually when I used to teach metals and jewelry at a university, my favorite class to teach was jewelry for non-art majors because I would take students who had, most of them never made a single thing in their life. And within, you know, two to three weeks, they had made a bracelet out of metal that they could wear and you could see the change in them. And that's how I feel when I make things. And so for me, I'm, I really respond to material. You know, I do some sketching just because I actually love to draw, as I mentioned, I've drawn my whole life. I love to draw, but a lot of times I don't even sketch, I just go right to the material. So most of my jewelry is made from wire. And there's kind of a joke in the metals and jewelry world that you're a, you're a wire person or you're a sheet person, like you work with sheets of metal, you work with wire, and I'm a wire person for whatever reason, that's just how, that's just what I respond to. And I think part of it is that I also really love, I've always loved textiles and fibers. And so I think the wire has that same kind of quality. So for me, a lot of times it's just sitting down and playing with the material. I have certain forms that I always kind of go back to, but I really, really love materials. Those necklaces that I was talking about that maybe only I would call necklaces. A lot of them weren't even made out of metal. So one of the jokes when I was in undergrad was that I was the metal smithing major who actually never worked in metal. I made stuff out of balloons and Cheerios and I think like fishing lures and just whatever I could get my hands on, because I really love that process of taking something and transforming it into something completely different. And I think the closest thing that I can think to it is that it's really like magic. And when I was a kid, I actually read, so I read this quote recently that said something like art, you know, art has something, a little bit of something to do with magic. And I thought, oh, right, that's it. Because when I was a kid, like I was wanting to do magic, you know, not the like Vegas show trickster magic, but like the, you know, I want to be Harry Potter before Harry Potter existed kind of magic. And so I think when I'm working with a material and I can take something that, you know, when I was in undergrad and grad school, I was doing these pieces that were balloons and I would sew the balloons, I would cut them and sew them and make them look like flowers and then I would put those on jewelry or on sculpture. And there was something about taking this material and making it unrecognizable and turning it into something else or now, you know, even when I work a lot with steel and people are always going, oh, like, what, what is that material? What is that? And just sort of transforming it. I remember I had a little girl once at a show asked me what the necklace was made out of and I said, oh, it's steel and she goes, oh, then why is it so pretty? And for me, that was like the best compliment in the world because I thought, here I am, like, I've taken something that we think of as like raw and rough and industrial. And I've made it really beautiful. And that's what really gets me excited about working. So, you know, I want to go back to something you said earlier about this idea of making things that might be kind of bad, right? And when you make something, I mean, if you handed me metal and you told me to replicate something you've done, I'm sure I would, you know, finish doing what I do after an hour and I would want to throw it against the window, just knowing what I know about myself. And I don't imagine that's not an uncommon feeling for anybody who starts a creative endeavor. And I think there's a level of self belief that has to come with it. I mean, you've obviously had that built into you from a very early age, but I'm curious. I think to me, this is one of the most important things is how do you battle that? I mean, how do you win that battle? Yeah. So I think that one of the things is if you can find a good teacher or find someone who can help you, that actually, that can really help because what happens is, you know, you want to start and you want to learn process or you want to learn how to do something and your ambitions are so much higher than your skill level. But a good teacher can guide you through a series of small successes. So when I would teach my students, what I would do is, you know, the first project, it was pretty much guaranteed not to fail. Like, it was a very simple technique. We used a very simple process and I'm a big believer in that, you know, people shouldn't make the same thing. So everybody's looked different at the end, but they all looked pretty good because we started really simple. So I think when you're thinking about learning a new skill and when you were, you know, doing that drawing project, I think that was the perfect example of, don't try to learn 12 or 20 new skills at once, learn one, figure out how that one works, you know, get a hang of that and then add in something else and then add in something else. And so you have those little successes, you're not going to start off making your masterpiece right away, but those little successes are what keep you from getting discouraged. So, you know, I want to dig deeper into a little something that you said there, you know, not everybody's looked exactly the same, even though you're using the same structure and process. This is actually one of my hot buttons right now. Mine too. You might have read this. I wrote this thing called the mimicry epidemic on Facebook. And part of it, I see this in the world of entrepreneurship and people doing projects that are online, people see something that works and they look at the structure of it, but their output, it's, you know, they hide it under something. It's like hiding it under different masks, but you look at it, it's exactly the same. And I guess, you know, I mean, our show is called the unmistakable creative. So, I mean, as somebody who's made things with their hands and coached people through doing this, I mean, how do you get them to that point? Like, how do you say, you know what, go make something unmistakable? And I realize that's not easy. Yeah. So, I'm actually a big believer in using parameters to get people to then do something different. So, especially in the beginning when you leave things so open-ended, you know, the whole, like you could do anything in the whole wide world, that's really paralyzing to people. And so, I think when people are like, oh, I could do anything, they just start to look to, okay, well, this person's doing this and so I'm just going to do that too, or this person's doing that and I'm going to do it too. And so, if you kind of narrow your scope, so you're not going to say, okay, I'm going to make a bracelet and the bracelet that I'm going to cut out of metal. And so, this is actually the beginner project that I do with a lot of my students. I don't say, like, cut out any design. I say, okay, you know, go out into the building and find a repeat pattern that catches your eye. And so, suddenly, it's not like, oh, I have to come up with any idea in the world and I don't know what to do, so I'm just going to copy the teacher. It's, I have this constraint and then within that constraint, I'm going to pick the thing that most appeals to me. And so, I think that even when you are creative and you don't have the direction of a teacher, that same kind of constraint can really work for you because you can sit down and think, okay, well, you know what, I could do anything in the world and that's really scary. Or I could say to myself, like, what happens if today I only made a painting with blue paint and my fingers? Like, that's all I get. And then, suddenly, that starts to look a lot more like you because you have to come up with your own solutions within that constraint. And I think that's what really helps you develop your own voices, giving yourself those really narrow parameters. I love that. I think that's really, really brilliant. I think that it's not something that we talk about nearly enough, just because it's like, you know, our world right now is like an all-you-can-eat buffet of creative options. Right. And most people are pretty much, you know, eating too much and throwing up. Yeah, it's really, it's pretty bad. And I think there's really something to be said for that kind of restraint. You know, if you look at all the kind of great designers of the world, they all preach restraint. And I'm actually, like, I'm a girl who, I like my excess when it's appropriate. But I think that you have to narrow down the creative process. Otherwise, you get so overwhelmed that you either do nothing or you copy someone else. And we don't want either one of those things to happen. Well, let's shift gears a little bit. I want to start digging into your story and your journey of where things go from here. Because, I mean, I think that in our world, I mean, the world I grew up in, the idea that, you know, creatives make a living, it was ridiculous. It was like, no, that's a nice hobby. You don't make a living doing things like playing the tuba, which was what I was told growing up. But, you know, I mean, there's some validity to that. You have to, you know, somebody has to die for the job to open up in an orchestra because there's only one. I mean, I think to some degree, we say, okay, you know, the people who make art and do things like you do are the kinds of people you find at Burning Man when they're escaping their day job. But, you know, there's no way you're going to make a career out of this. So, I really want to start talking about the journey and the story and the things that really have molded and shaped you into who you are today. Yeah. So, I think part of it is that I, you know, I never believed that I couldn't make a living doing what I loved. I'm really, you know, I use the word fortunate a lot, but I'm really fortunate in that my dad actually owned a machine shop and the machine shop was founded by my grandfather. So, and they do like, you know, really industrial stuff, honestly, for most of my life, I didn't even quite know what he did other than it was a machine shop. But I remember my dad always worked really long hours and just one time he said to me he was like, you know, I'm really lucky because my hobby is my job. He truly loves machining and he loved the process and he loved everything about it and that's where he wanted to spend all of his time. So, even though running a machine shop is ostensibly a much more practical, I guess, pursuit than being an artist, I still had this example of someone who was so passionate about what they were doing that it just didn't occur to me that I couldn't do it. It didn't occur to me that I couldn't make a job out of it. And so, you know, when I was actually in undergrad, I minored in entrepreneurship. And honestly, I can say that I probably didn't learn a whole lot in my entrepreneurship classes when you have a 730 AM accounting class. If you show up at all, you're lucky to learn anything. But I at least always had that in the back of my mind that that was important to me. And then when I was in grad school, so I went right from undergrad, I went to grad school, so I got my MFA also in metals and jewelry. And when I went to grad school, you know, I always sort of felt like there were two career tracks for me. I was going to be a teacher. And by teacher, I mean college professor, because usually, if you go and you get your MFA, that's what you're probably trying to do is you're probably trying to become a college professor. And just like your example with the orchestra, there's not a lot of jobs for that, especially in a field of small metals or things. So you might not be waiting for someone to die, but you're certainly waiting for them to retire, and they're going to be there a while. And I do love teaching, so that was always something that I was thinking about. But I also always knew that I thought maybe I wanted to run a business. So while I was in grad school, I was doing really, really big conceptual sculpture when I was in grad school because that's actually a huge belief of mine is that when you're in school, you should push yourself. You have the rest of your life to figure out how to make money from your art, but when you're in school, you know, be crazy, go no holds bar because it's kind of most of the time. It's your one shot. So I was doing that, but then I was also involved in we had a jewelry student co-op. We would run a sale on campus every semester. So I was starting to kind of figure out how to take my big ideas and translate them into something smaller and more sellable. And then that was really the beginning of my production line that then became the jewelry line that I'm known for today. So a lot of stuff here. There's a ton of stuff. Especially the conversation around not believing that, you know, doing work that you're passionate about, it wasn't accessible to you. I think that we're in an interesting time, you know, Pamela Slim and I were having this conversation. We've got almost an epidemic of people unhappy with the work that they're doing. But on the flip side of that argument, there's also, you know, Pam and I also talked about this idea of we're obsessed with this work mode of, hey, quit your job, travel the world, be a misfit, you know, be unmistakable. And to some degree, I think that conversation is actually making us pretty miserable. And I really, you know, as somebody who found what you love earlier in your life, because I'm telling you, there are people who are listening to this who are basically caught between those two lives and they can't leave one for the other. And I think the idea that they have to leave one for the other is really, it's, that's another epidemic entirely that's making us miserable. And, you know, maybe we can blame Tim Ferriss to some degree, but I don't know. I mean, to me, this is a conversation that honestly, I wish was more a part of what's going on in the web. Like, we need to talk about it. Right. Well, and I think too, that part of the problem is, you know, we talk about like, okay, you know, live your dream, you know, quit your job, and fortunately, I never had a day job to quit. So like, I don't have that experience. But, you know, we talk about living your dream and doing what you love. And it's totally doable, but I think what we don't talk about enough is that it is really, really hard work. Sometimes I work crazy hours. Sometimes I take a week and blow things off. I'm not going to lie. But sometimes I work crazy hours, and sometimes I'm really stressed about where money is going to come from. It's a lot of hard work, and it's a lot of responsibility, and I think that's the other thing that I saw growing up in the home that I did, is that, you know, my dad loved his job, but he worked really, really hard, and he had a lot of responsibility and a lot of stress. And so it's not enough to just be like, oh, I'm going to go in my studio and like, make jewelry today, or paint today, or whatever. I also have to think about like, okay, you know, how is the money coming in? You know, am I going to spend $5,000 to go to a trade show this season, or am I going to try to do something else? You know, how am I going to make my stores happy because I sell to a lot of stores? So there's a lot of other stuff that happens, and sometimes it frankly sucks. Like sometimes it's really, really, really hard. Now the trade-off is that I don't get up at the same time every day, and I don't go to an office every day, and so I would not trade it for anything, but I think it's important that we acknowledge that it's not the easy lifestyle that maybe Tim Ferriss wants us to believe it is. Yeah. I mean, for a guy who wrote a book called A Four Hour Work, I think that guy works more than anybody. Right. Look at what he's up to, I'm like, there's no way in hell you're doing all that in four hours a week. Right, you know, you don't write that many books in this short amount of time working four hours a week. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, I think that we've, I'm really glad that you brought up that it is really hard, you know, I was talking to my friend Sarah Peck last night, and she said, yeah, she said, you know, we have gotten to this point where we don't believe that we should be miserable in order to, to make our art, but she said in reality, it's kind of necessary, you know, I mean, I think that what you're willing to go through is an indicator of how far you're going to get. Yeah, I think so too. Actually, I would, I just was at a conference and I heard Ben Silberman, the founder of Pinterest speak. And, you know, one of the things that he said is the biggest predictor of someone's success is their endurance. Because that's the other thing that we don't, I think, talk about enough is that it takes so, so long to be successful and to really get to where you want to go. And we want it to happen quickly because either we see people and we think it happened quickly to them because we've only seen them since they've been successful. Or, you know, there are, there are cases of, you know, fairly quick success, but for every case that looks like that, there are lots and lots of stories of people who worked for five, 10, 20, 30 years to really have that kind of success. And so, you know, if you, if you really want to make a living doing what you love, you have to be prepared for the long haul and not just think about it as this like short-term, you know, quick thing that you can jump into and then jump back out of. Yeah, I mean, I, I love that you brought up, you know, 10, 20, 30. I mean, hell, they're some of the most, you know, famous artists in the world died without ever seeing the impact of their work. That's that to me is like, as I think about that, I'm like, wow, that's really kind of disturbing to think. But then you have to question, well, does it, you know, does it mean that the work they did didn't matter or did, you know, it didn't have an impact? I mean, yeah, they never saw it, but it doesn't mean the work didn't matter. Right. And I think that, you know, part of it is too that you have to come to terms with, you know, like what level of success, success is not even the right word, but, you know, if you make your work and your work impacts you and only you, that's still a level of impact that it wouldn't have if you never made it in the first place. So of course, all of us dream about all of us artists or visual artists dream about, like one day, you know, our stuff is going to be in the met or like we're going to have the, the Alexander McQueen retrospective, you know, with the custom Institute in the Met that people wait in line for hours to see like, good God, do I want that? Absolutely. But if that doesn't ever happen or it doesn't ever happen in my lifetime, that doesn't mean that I'm not successful and it doesn't mean that my work didn't have an impact. And so I think we, we have to scale down what we think about impact. Like if one person wears my jewelry and loves it and it becomes their go to piece, that's impacted. And fortunately, I know that there's more than one person out there who's wearing it and loving it. But that's impact. And I think we get so obsessed now, especially in the social media era with like more. Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from uncommon goods. The busy holiday season is here and uncommon goods makes it less stressful with incredible handpick gifts for everyone on your list, all in one spot, gifts that spark joy, wonder delight and that it's exactly what I wanted feeling. They scoured the globe for original, handmade, absolutely remarkable things. 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Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply, linkedin, the place to be, to be. And more and more and more and more numbers and I'm really guilty of that too, I'm not going to lie, but we forget that like, okay, so maybe there's only three people sign up for your mailing list, but those three people might really, really, really care because you might have really touched them or your art really touched them in some way and so you can't lose sight of those individuals that you're impacting in this attempt to get the masses. Well, you know, I think you brought up something else that it really honestly to me is one of the most important takeaways is if the art impacts you, then that's incredible. And I don't think that we think about that. Like I honestly, I haven't thought about that in a long time. I haven't thought about the impact that the work that I've done has had on me and how much it's transformed me as a person. I mean, yeah, of course, it definitely, you know, you, like from an egoic standpoint, I love that there are lots of people listening to this and that, you know, lots of people have read my book. But at the same time, I mean, just the process of writing, it caused me to grow so much as a person. Right. It really does, you know, impact us and I, and I think we have to, we do, we have to acknowledge that that, you know what, making the art that we're making, it changes us, you know, and I'm also a big believer because I make a lot of products that are designed to be functional. I'm a big believer in letting not just the process impact you, but the products themselves impact you. So I know that someone's going to wear my necklace and love it because I wear my own necklace and I love it and I let myself do that. I think we have this fear that like, if we love our own work, it's going to come off as, you know, boastful or prideful or we're arrogant or egotistic. But if you don't love the work that you're making on some level, do I know that, you know, I can, there's always room for improvement, absolutely. But if you don't love the work that you're making, not just the process, but the finished product, if you don't, can't find something in there that you truly love, then how can you expect other people to love it too? And so I think that's really, really important. Well, you know, it's, it's funny you bring that up because when we, when we were going through the design process of, you know, the animal stick will create a website, I said to everybody who worked, I said, people need to come here and just be dazzled. And, you know, I said, I realized it's a really vague instruction, but I knew, here's what I knew. I said, I've got to look at this and I've got to feel something. And if I don't feel it, I know that other people won't. And it was the same process with walking into venues for our event. I would turn to the event manager, I'm just like, let's get out of here. I don't want to have the event here. She's like, we've been here for 10 seconds. I said, I already know that this is. That's all you need. And I was like, you know, I'm like, I've already made up, I mean, she would send pictures and I was like, don't even make an appointment here. I mean, we drove to one place, before we even walked in the door, I told Greg, we're not having the event here. I hate this location. And so I think there's really something to be said for that and really trusting that. But you know, you brought up endurance. I actually want to dig deeper into this because this is a debate we've been having on the air quite a bit and it's one that really, I mean, we got a lot of our listeners wrote in about this as this idea of this debate of talent and the role that talent plays. I mean, even one of my favorite interviews was a woman named Danny Shapiro is a writer and she said, you know, people don't want to hear this, but she said, talent actually plays a role. And I, you know, part of me wonders, I'm like, can you overcome a lack of talent with endurance? And I'm beginning to think, no, but I'm very curious to hear your thoughts around this. So, you know, it's an interesting question and I think the answer is like, yes and no. So there are certain fields that if you are just not good at it, you will never like, no amount of endurance and no amount of hard work is going to get you there. I cannot sing. I am, I cannot carry a tune. And so I could take singing lessons and sing for like 20 hours a day. And I know that, you know, and I would never win a Grammy, like it's not going to happen in my life. It's just not. But that said, you know, I was growing up. I was good at art, but I guess not like I was Picasso doing like photo realistic drawing when I was 10. So I was good at it, but I wasn't the best. And even, you know, in my, in my metals classes, in my art classes, you know, I was certainly good. There's definitely some talent there, but I wasn't the best, but I've always worked really hard and I've been really committed. And, you know, and I knew I wanted to have a business. And so I think that, that you have to have a certain level of, you know, there's a little bit of that kind of natural ability, a little bit of that talent. But if you recognize the fields that you have that talent in, then putting in the hard work is what's going to get you there. So I think you can't force something that you're really, really, really terrible at. I, you know, never going to be, never going to win a Grammy, I'm never going to be an Olympic gymnast. You know, there's a whole host of things that I am, I can't do and no amount of practice would get me there. But there's also a whole lot of things that I am decent at, or even good at that I could put my energy into and be really great at, by putting in that work. Yeah, you know, I would agree. You know, it's interesting. I think that one of the other sort of themes it seems like in the last few days is recognizing what those things are and recognizing those moments that are sort of serendipitous that show up in your life. And you're saying, this is it. This is what I'm supposed to do. I mean, did you, did you feel like there were times throughout this journey of yours that you kind of looked at something and said, this is it. This is one of those moments when I'm supposed to do this because where it leads will be really important. Yeah. In a way, yes. So I'm the kind of person who's very much led by my enthusiasm. So like I get really excited about something and I'm going to straight up dive in. So that it gave an example of when I was taking, you know, doing the program at the community college and we did the, you know, jewelry class and I was like, you can go to college for this. Sign me up. Like it didn't even occur to me to think any longer about that. I was just like, that's cool. I want to do more of it. And then the same thing actually when I started designing textiles this fall, you know, it was really funny because a couple of friends had been saying to me, Oh, you know what, Megan, I really could see your paintings as textiles. And I had all of these very, very, very logical reasons why I wasn't going to design a textile line. You know, there was like the cost of production, getting into something like I had all these and there were really sound logical reasons. And then one day I was sitting in a coffee shop and I was reading a book that kind of unrelated to what I was doing. And I could just see so clearly in my mind, like what my textile collection was going to look like. And I literally, I stood up and I left the coffee shop and I was like, I have to go home and design fabric right now. So I am definitely that kind of person who, you know, I jump in and I don't question like, is this the thing that I'm going to do for the rest of my life? Because when I start to think about things like that, I tend to, that stops my creative process. Like, am I, am I meant to? Should I, you know, for me, that's not a good, a good litmus test. A good list litmus test is, am I really freaking excited about this? Cool. Then let's go do it. And so that for me has been a better indicator like, am I going to design textiles for the rest of my life? I don't know. Am I going to design jewelry for the rest of my life? I don't know. Who knows where I'm going to be in 20 years, but right now I want to work on what I'm most excited about. And so that's what I kind of use as a guide. Yeah. I love that. I guess my other litmus test, in addition to that as will I die, will I go to jail or will I go bankrupt? Mentioned on the air before, but it's, you know, and honestly for me, I probably only worry about the first two. Like, will I go bankrupt, you know, while it's totally scary, like, it's also a genuine risk of business. And for me, that one doesn't stop me. Like, I want to go all in because if I go bankrupt and I fail, like I really hope I don't go, go bankrupt. It's only me wrong. If I go bankrupt and I fail, like at least I failed knowing that I gave it my all and not just in the design process, but in the business process too, like it's important to me that I tried as hard in business as I do at making my art. But if I go bankrupt in the process, well, then I'll figure out what the next step is. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot here. So, you know, I have a couple of questions that come from this. I mean, you mentioned enthusiasm, you know, sort of your guiding light behind all of this, but then you said, you know, part of what got you back into painting was, you know, losing your mother. And those are kind of interesting contrasts and I wonder if you might, you know, kind of cool us into that. And of course, because I mean, one of the things, I mean, I always keep saying the common thread I keep finding between all our guests, you know, often pain is what fuels their art. And my, you know, I mentioned this a few days ago, my favorite line from Danny Shabro's book, Still Writing, was that pain engraves a deeper memory and I look at everything that I've written and everything I've created and often it's, you know, its roots are in painful experiences, but I'm making meaning out of them through my art. And I'd love to hear your perspective on this. Yeah. So for me, I don't, I mean, obviously there was a lot of pain and there was a lot of grieving that went on. But when I, you know, look back at the experience of, you know, what happened with my mom, my mom and I were incredibly close. We got along very well. And so when she passed away, I didn't have like the regret. And quite frankly, I didn't even have the anger. What I just had was this intense kind of sadness, sadness and loneliness and the kind of crappy thing about that emotion is that when someone dies, you can't, that one doesn't go away. Like I'm going to miss my mom for the rest of my life. But the thing that my mom and I had that pulled us together more than anything else, and we, and we had a lot of things in common, you know, our personalities were very similar, similar. We could fight like crazy because we were both kind of stubborn. But the thing that really pulled us together was this love of art and particularly this love of painting. And so for me, painting again wasn't even necessarily about pain. It was about connection, and it was about finding this way to stay connected to my mom. And I actually have like, I have her paints and her paint brushes and her paint brushes sit on my desk in my studio. And so that's really what it was about for me. Yes, you know, I was working through some grief, but it really was about sort of staying connected and honoring this legacy, you know, when I think about my mom and I think any time you go through a really hard loss like that, you start to think about like, you know, who am I, you know, what kind of life do I want to lead? You really start to reassess and especially hard, I think when, you know, before my mom passed away, I had a really good life. You know, I was doing this thing that I loved. I had built my business to a place that I felt really successful. And so it's really hard when your entire foundation gets shaken like that. And so I, you know, I was kind of starting to question like, who am I? And I realized that, you know, I knew who I was before my mom because my mom made me the woman that I am. And the best thing that I could do to honor her memory was to be really unapologetically myself, because that's the kind of woman that she was. She was really unapologetically her all the time. And that's why people loved her. It's also why people got mad at her sometimes, but it's why people loved her to death. And so really now I think about like, what can I do that sort of honors her memory and connects us together? And painting is really a way that I can feel connected and feel like my mom is with me. I love that. I mean, I think it's brilliant. It's just one other thing that you said earlier about sort of, you know, playing big and taking big risks. And you know, I feel like for me, the game has been constantly leveling up. It's something that we've talked about before sometime last year in one of our backstage segments. And I think, you know, people ask, how do you launch big projects or take these big risks knowing? I mean, you brought up the idea that, hey, you know, going bankrupt would suck. And I'm kind of wondering how you balance that fear with saying, you know, I'm just going to go for broke because that's what matters in making my art. And I don't think everybody has that inherently built into them. And I'm wondering, you know, how do we find that? Yeah. So I don't think everyone has that built in and, you know, I like to tell a story about when I was a kid, I remember my mom telling me that she had to go into the bank and sign paperwork with my dad because they were getting a loan to buy a million dollar machine. And that was the kind of business that my dad was in, where you routinely borrowed hundreds of thousand or even a million dollars to buy a machine because it was what you had to do to get the work done. And I remember I wanted to move to a different section of New York gift to a bigger booth and the booth was going to cost $10,000. And I got the bill and I called my dad and I said, Dad, like I, you know, I need $10,000 to do this trade show. And if we're being totally honest, I was secretly hoping that he would just give me the money. And I was like, what do you do? And he goes, you call the bank and you get a loan. And I was like, oh, oh, right. Like that's, I can do that. So I, you know, I called the bank and we had a family friend who worked at the bank and I called him and I said, I need to get a loan. What should I do? He said, all right, come in. We'll fill out some paperwork. That's the best option. And so we did that. And so, you know, when you kind of put like 10,000 against a million, it doesn't seem like such a scary number. But I think that if you don't have those experiences that you have to, one, you should hang out with people who talk like that, like people who are like, oh, you know, my business made $3 million last year in the boat ever, just because I think those numbers reset us. But I also think that it's okay to be scared of stuff as long as you've done kind of done your homework and know that it's right. And that could be number crunching or it could just be your gut. You know, you talked about looking at spaces for the event and knowing in an instant, yes, this was the right space. No, it wasn't. And so for me, when I wanted to make that leap to the different trade show booth in New York, I was moving to a different section. And the section I had been in was the handmade section and I didn't feel like it was a good fit. And I wanted to move to this section that was accent on design. And the reason I wanted to move there is because quite frankly, I walked into that section and I thought, these are my people. This is where I belong. And I still feel that way to this day. And so did I know that it was going to be a big, scary risk, absolutely. But I knew it was a risk that was taking me towards where I wanted to go. And I think that's the difference too. I'm not a risk taker. I'm actually kind of a big chicken and I know that people who know me through my business probably might not believe that because people tend to think that I am a risk taker. But I'm not the girl who's going to go jump out of an airplane because quite frankly I'm scared of heights. But I'm going to get on that airplane if it's going to take me to Europe because it's some place that I wanted to go. So I'm always willing to overcome my fear if it's leading me towards something that I want to do or a place that I want to be. I love that. I mean, I think it's interesting, right? It's like some of the scariest things in my life are the ones that have caused me to grow the most. I'm realizing, I mean, I think that one of the things that you think when you take on something very big is how the hell am I going to pull this off? And I think that I've always said with the first step the view starts to change. It's just one little moment, one little thing that reveals all the other steps and suddenly it becomes much more feasible. You look at it and you're like, oh, okay. So this is how you find a venue. This is how you get the deposit down for the venue. I mean, it's all these little things and the next thing you know, you're done with the project. I can't believe I did that. I love that. I think it's so true. You don't have to know, you don't have to know what the end result, how you're going to get there. You just have to start moving. You know, even when I'm designing something in the studio, sometimes I don't know what the finished thing is going to be like, or I might have an idea. But I know like, okay, I'm going to take this step. And then after that step, it reveals itself and you're like, okay, now I'm going to do this. And I totally agree. You know, one of my biggest mottos when I was teaching is a student would ask me a question and I would say, I don't know because first of all, I believe that it's really important to say that, you know, especially if you're a teacher, it's okay to say, I don't know. But I would always follow, I don't know up with, I don't know, let's try it and see or I don't know, but we'll figure it out because for me, that's kind of what life is about. You never know. You don't know the future. You can't predict it. And so I think life is actually much less stressful if you view everything as a great big giant experiment, I'm going to try this and see. And then whatever happens from there, then we're going to decide, okay, I'm going to do this, but I'm not going to obsess about three steps down the road because three steps down the road might look totally different. So I'm just going to look at, here's the next step. We're going to try it and see and then we're going to respond from there and then see what happens from that step. And to me that's way less stressful than feeling like you have to have the next 20 years or heck, even the next 20 hours of your life planned out. Yeah, I mean, I was writing something this morning, people, somebody, I said, people asked me, how do you write a book and say one word at a time? And I said, what I realized is you often, you often don't see the end until you're actually there. Yeah, that makes, there's that quote that's like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? And I think that's the same thing, like just one step, one step. And you know, and I used to do, you know, like a lot of distance running and it was the same thing. Like if you stop and you think like, oh my gosh, I'm supposed to run 13 miles today, like that's all, that starts to get overwhelming. But if you're like, okay, cool, one step, one step, or you know, I remember doing, I do a lot of bicycling and I had, I had been kind of out of shape. This is after my mom died and I had not been riding as much and my husband and I did a road ride and he was in much better shape than me. And I was like halfway up the hill and I was basically like having a panic attack because I wasn't in shape and I was really mad at myself. And it was so much harder than it had been the year before when I was in a really good shape. And I thought, you know what, if you keep going like this, this is going to be the most miserable experience. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to slow down, we're going to go the pace that works. My husband was like that point gone ahead of me and I was so relieved for that. We're going to go the pace that works and I'm going to take one hill at a time and I'm going to climb those uphills in whatever slow pace I have to go. And then when I get to the downhill, I'm going to take advantage of that. I'm going to soar down that hill, I'm going to use the downhills, I'm going to take as much momentum as I can. And when I have to climb again, I'm just going to put my head down and I'm going to go whatever speed I need to go to get to the top of the hill and not freak out. And it took something that was really on the verge of panic attack and made it totally achievable. Yeah, I love this. I think this is such a fitting metaphor for any sort of creative endeavor. I think that what I'm realizing, I was thinking about this book and I said I don't know where the beginning is, I don't know where the end is, I just know I'm writing the book. Right. And that to me was deliberating and I often think that that's what traps people. I think we think that's going to be some sort of linear well thought out and laid out plan, but it's messy. Yeah. I forget who I heard say it recently that they were like, life is not linear. It's sort of a circle, but it's sort of like a weird messy spirally circle where I don't know, it kind of looks like those spider graphs, I guess maybe that you had when you were a kid. But it's certainly not linear. And I think when we try to make things linear, especially as creatives where linear thinking might not be our strength, when we try to make things linear, that adds a lot of stress. And so if you're kind of like, oh, you know what, today it's going to be two steps forward and like six steps back. And that's okay. And maybe tomorrow will actually make six steps forward and only take two steps back. So you just have to kind of embrace that that it's going to be kind of a hot, messy process when you're in it. Yeah. Well, you know, I think that makes a perfect transition to one of my final questions. I mean, we've talked about so many different forms of art. And it's interesting, right? Like, I look at people who have been here on the show. And it seems like there's a thread that runs throughout their work that kind of brings it all together. And one, I'm wondering, you know, what is that thread for you? And then you've taken multiple art forms and sort of, you know, transition them and express them in, you know, different ways. And I'm very curious how we take our own experiences and combine them together in that way to express ourselves. This Halloween, Google all out with Instacart, whether you're hunting for the perfect costume, eyeing that giant bag of candy or casting spells with eerie decor. 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Got your answers is for sale. And if you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, Hambo, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky Hambo trivia questions. All that and a whole lot more. Got your answers? It's available anywhere you get your books right now. Forging ahead together drives Colorado's pioneering spirit. At Chevron, we donate funding and volunteer thousands of hours in support of the community's We Call Home. We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. That's Energy in Progress. Visit Colorado.chefron.com. Yeah, so, you know, I do try to think about the thread that ties my work together. And actually, when I was first starting to design the textile line in the fall, I had a dream. And the dream was that I had gone back to the school where I went to college and I think I was trying to get another master's degree or something. I don't really remember why. But my undergrad professor was there and I was trying to argue for why I should get a scholarship. And there was another person there who had more technical ability than I did. And she was like, "Well, but what I really like about you is that you really understand the body. And you really think about how things wear on people. And you really bring that to the work." And I woke up and I was like, "Yes." Like, I know that was totally a dream, but I am going to own that. Like, my work and when I really am like the most excited about my work is when I'm making things for the body and making things that people can wear, even if they're crazy things. When I'm making things that people can wear, that's actually when I'm most, I think, excited and most engaged. And I think that's actually why, you know, I took the painting and the painting was such an important part of my creative transition. But when I started making the paintings into scarves, that was when it really clicked for me and people could see it. They were like, "Oh, the light on your face is just, you know, just so clear." And it's because I was thinking about how something could wear. And actually I'm such a nerd. I would sit there with like the scarves that I was designing and I would play for like 15 minutes in front of the mirror like, "Oh, I could wear it this way." And then I could wear it that way. So that really is, I think, a big kind of defining factor about what gets me excited. But then to kind of answer your other question is that I don't try to force influences. So like, you know, the forms that I use in my jewelry, sometimes they pop up in my paintings, sometimes they don't. And so I used to spend a lot of time being like, "Okay, I do all these things. I do all these projects. How are they connected?" And then one day I was just like, "They're connected because they all came from me." And it's not my job to sit there and be like, "Oh, well, this connects here. This connects there." You know, that's the art historians job. If I'm ever that famous, I'll let my biographer figure that one out. The connection is that they all come from me. And so that's really all that matters. And so tomorrow I wake up and I'm like, "I'm gonna, I don't know, do something. I can't even think of like a medium that would feel so crazy to me." Because quite frankly, any of them I think are fair game because it all comes from kind of my creative process. I love that. I think that the idea, you know, I think we've become so sort of obsessed with this idea of finding your purpose. You know, we can blame Simon Sinek to that for some degree. But I think the idea that they all come from you is one that to me is quite liberating. I've never heard it put that way. Yeah. You know, and I will say like, I'm actually a big Simon Sinek fan and I do sort of feel like, you know, for me, and this relates back to like sort of my interest in the body, is that I like, I really do care about like strong, confident women and I want women to rock it. So like, I do feel like I have this sort of purpose, but I also don't sit there and obsess that like is every little thing that I'm doing coming back to that. I'm like, this is me and this is what I want to do. And if I feel good about putting it out in the world, then somehow it's connected to everything else. Awesome. Well, Megan, I'm going to close my final question. I think I have finally figured out a way to end this show with something different. I've been asking the same question for hundreds of interviews, but I think I've finally got it to something new. All right. In a world of so much noise, how do you become unmistakable? Oh, yeah. I think it comes back to that thing of like, you have to be yourself. And, you know, when I talked about, I talked about, you know, what I learned from, you know, from my mom, and it was this idea that you have to be unapologetically you. And I think that's how people become unmistakable is you can't apologize for being yourself. You know, people aren't their true selves because they feel like, you know, like, I'm going to get judged or I'm going to be whatever. And, and that's how you become the same as everybody else. But if you are unapologetic about you and if you is noisy or brash or if you're like kind of nerdy, like being nerdy, if you get way too excited about stuff, like I do get way too excited about stuff. And don't apologize for it. And so I think that's really what makes you unmistakable is being yourself because there's always going to be someone else who does what you do, but there's never going to be another you and that's what really makes you, I think unmistakable. I love it. I think that's a perfect way to sum up our conversation. Megan, thank you so much for coming back to the unmistakable creative and, you know, for our second appearance and sharing some of your insights with our listeners. This has been really cool. Thank you for having me. It's so fun to kind of sit down and, and dish about some of this stuff that I don't always get to talk about in my day to day life. So I thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Absolutely. And for those of you guys listening, we will wrap the show with that. Today's episode of the unmistakable creative has been brought to you by Sells. That's S-E-L-Z dot com. Sells gives you the freedom to sell from any website quickly with no programming, no special templates or special themes needed, while giving your customer a completely seamless experience. You've been listening to the unmistakable creative podcast. Visit our website at unmistakablecreative.com and get access to over 400 interviews in our archives. [Music] Cue the fireplace and your favorite fall movie. 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