The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

Is Technology Hurting Our Creativity?

In this backstage episode we have a discussion about the role that technology is playing in our creativity, and the quality of our lives.

Here are some of the highlights from our chat:

Why Srini has returned to pen and paper for writing
The point of diminishing returns with everything in our lives
Understanding that technology is designed to change your habits
Learning to control technology instead of letting it control us
The energy shift that happens when you declutter your digital life
Why Greg doesn’t use many techologies for personal use
The various forms of detox in all parts of our lives
How similar are our lives are to the way they were in the 1950’s

People and Resources Mentioned

The Neuroscience of Flow and The Rise of Superman

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Duration:: 42m
Broadcast on:: 28 Feb 2014
Audio Format:: other

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So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless. Get 30, 30, get 30, get 30, get 30, get 20, 20, get 20, get 20, get 20, get 20, get 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So, give it a try at Mint Mobile dot-com slash switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three-month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabyte CD-tail. Alright everybody, welcome to another episode of the unmistakable creative backstage. I am here with my co-host Greg Hartl, who is back from his mini sick leave. So how are you doing Greg? Much much better, yeah. So last week we had to cancel or I had to cancel because I really thought I was on the verge of death by cough. So, yeah, this week feeling much better. In fact, just overall, just feeling much more. This is probably the best, today is probably the best I've felt since October of last year. Wow. Which is pretty remarkable when you think about it. So yeah, I'm feeling good, ready to roll, let's do this. Alright, awesome, well it's good to have you back. I'm sure that people even asked you, he wrote in and said, "Hey, is Greg okay?" So good to know that everybody cares about you. Yeah, so you know, I really do appreciate that and I've learned a lot about that lately and I've actually had a few moments of awareness that people have pointed that out to me. And it actually was triggered by you when I wasn't responding to you. You went as far as calling my doctor. And then when I finally did respond to you, I remember you said, "Well the last time I lost track of you, you ended up contacting me from the hospitals." So I was concerned. But what was interesting about that is I was talking to a couple of friends on two different occasions and I was like, "Yeah, people are trying to track me down because I had a really bad spell there where I didn't answer to anybody. I was just out cold and not moving from bed." So basically I missed every appointment and I didn't respond to anybody's emails or text messages or anything. I didn't even see them. I didn't check my phone or anything. Like I was done. But when I talked to a couple of friends about it, they were like, "Well isn't that cool that you have that many people in your life that love you?" And I was like, "Whoa, that's kind of a big deal." So it was a good awareness for me. So yeah, I appreciate all the support from all the listeners too. Cool. Well, speaking of listeners, let's get into their feedback a little bit on our debate about feeding the ecosystem, which was the first time we actually disagreed on the air, which was kind of entertaining. So this actually comes from Michael in Israel. He says, "Greg, if you play back the podcast, I think you left out one important thing. No artist, even one widely acknowledged as exceptional is Oda Living. Even so any creators owed his asking price from people who take his original work, downloading slash taking without paying the prices theft." It's interesting because he had a whole other thing about the laws around all of this and piracy laws in Israel. What do you think about that, Greg? Actually, I think I'm in agreement. I absolutely agree with that. And I think a lot of times it's more about clarity around what the actual argument is or position is because I'm of the position that every artist should be paid what they're worth. If they're operating under a capitalist system and a market system and they want to participate in that, I absolutely think that. I've actually never pirated anything in my entire life and I'm fully happy to pay for everything and have and always will. And so in agreement with that, my argument was, my position was that if no one paid for your art as an artist, you will still create. And if I understood you correctly, Sreeni, you made the claim that if no one pays for your art, you can't continue to make art. And I was just saying that I think artists will always create, it's just born into them and it's part of their nature. So whether they participate in a marketplace or not, whether anyone buys for them or not, they will not stop creating. And that was really the point I was making. Yeah, it's interesting because that makes a perfect setup for, you know, Cherise. She wrote it and she said, you know, free art ain't going nowhere. But what's going to happen is that creatives will become more skilled entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs will create new business services designed to help creatives make money with their art. She's spot on in my opinion. Yeah, I think that's pretty solid. Let's see. Who else do we got here? Amber wrote in and she said, you know, we need to go further and talk about what artists put into the world and the idea of value and value being money, but also so much more. For example, the people that listen to your podcasts are oftentimes inspired to go and create something of value themselves. And that can keep trickling down the line and likely, you know, to return to you at some point in a monetary way or in another form of value. And that's from Amber. You know, I actually really like that feedback because I was talking to somebody today about, you know, what it is that we do here. And, you know, this is something that really, you know, I've learned from you as well when we talked about 10-lap is sort of the ripple effect of a project. And I think that's what she's talking about, like, you know, I mean, thousands of people around the world here, listen, I mean, and my hope is that, you know, whoever is changed as a byproduct of this, they go out and they change other people's lives. And so there's, you know, it continues, like, it's the legacy of it. The ripple lives on after I'm gone is the idea. Yeah. And that's a form of currency that inspires people to create, right? So that is, in fact, a form of payment. I mean, I spent three years of my life the last three years not making a dollar from the individuals that I worked with, you know? So, I mean, if you added up the hours, it's quite a lot, you know, in spending my personal time in the last three years helping people with their ideas and helping people create and all the creations I did in the last three years, I didn't charge a single dollar for and I was perfectly happy with that. And that's kind of, I guess, why I had that position two weeks ago anyway was that, you know, no one paid me a single dollar and yet I could not have been more happy to continue to create. And because the form of currency for me was watching them create as a result and watching them experience the things that they want to experience and that's, you know, that level of fulfillment. Now, that's not to say that we all don't have to pay our bills in some respects. And, you know, there's a lot of people that want to create art to get paid for it, but there's also more than one form of way of getting paid for it. So here's one last piece of a listener feedback and this is from Alice and it's interesting because she's bringing up our Renaissance person conversations. Among creatives and entrepreneurs, I see the shift happening where a craft is being framed around a problem to be solved. Often this looks like a collection of skills combined with expertise, perspective, and or purpose. I do believe that the future is a modern version of the Renaissance Man/Lady with just a little bit ahead of our times. The challenge with that, of course, is that society is not currently designed for a Renaissance approach, which that's actually a pretty, you know, interesting observation. No, and it's a very sophisticated one and, you know, there's a lot of deep angles there. But I would tend to agree with that. And I think it's, you know, it'll be interesting to see what happens, I think, over the next 10 years as we kind of unfold here with the adoption of technology and the breakdown of barriers and the ability to create from scratch will only continue to improve and more people will have access to it. And we'll see the result of the ability to switch gears, to change careers, to move into other endeavors more quickly and start things more often. And we'll see what the consequences of that are. Will that create more opportunity or will that create just more generic stuff? I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, definitely. Well, I think that, you know, speaking of technology, that makes a perfect setup to talk about what we want to get into today, which is something that's been on my mind quite a bit lately as I've, you know, become obsessed with, you know, pen and paper and my moleskins and, you know, freaking out when I leave them somewhere. It's, you know, I nearly had a breakdown because I left a moleskin at our venue for our event. And luckily the guy had it there when I went back the other day. But you know, I wrote an article on Medium titled The Virtues of Pen and Paper, you know, which was basically a case for going analog in a digital world. And you know, I've sort of come to the conclusion that, you know, technology is amazing. I mean, I've always said, you know, the gap between creativity and technology is narrower than it's ever been and it's giving us all these opportunities. And yet the more, you know, I go down this path and the more I create work and the more I write, the more I am starting to see that there may be a diminishing return to technology as a tool to facilitate creativity. You know, I think that there's a certain point at which it actually starts to hinder our creativity, you know, I mean, I got to the point a few weeks ago where I was with a friend and I had to delete all the email apps from my phone and it took about three days to reduce my anxiety level back to like a normal standard thing. I had probably pressed the button 10 times because I was so worried about what was going on in my inbox. I mean, and that's kind of an aside, but I think that the, you know, of course, you know, when your mind is filled with that, how can you be creative? And yet when I sit down at a blank page in the morning, you know, I think I've mentioned, you know, I have a whole new ritual now where I set this room up, the room that I'm in right now, you know, like like an operating room, like a surgeon sets up his room that able for an operation, I come in here. And the first thing I do before I go to sleep at night is I make sure there's not a single piece of technology in this room. And all that's in here is pen and paper and books. And you know, I am finding this to be much more therapeutic as a creative process. And I'm finding that I'm much more creative, I'm having more insights than I've ever had. And you know, the, I think I'm hearing the sound of my own voice in a very different way than I ever have. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, my position on technology, Mr. General, I mean, I'm, I'm still a book reader and I don't check email, I check email, I don't know, once a day, maximum, I could care less about my phone, you know, so for me personally, technology is just not that interesting from that perspective in my day to day life. Yet, you know, the first business I ever built was a, the first business I ever founded was a telecommunications company. And I own three technology-driven companies right now, you know, you know, I'm, I'm part of the development team of two different apps. And so it's not that I don't like technology, it's that for me personally, I don't leverage it to that degree, you know, from a social network standpoint, it's been, you know, quite some time since I've updated any sort of social network other than if it's specific to a project or business. So you know, that, that's just my general opinion, you know, for, for, for me personally. But I think in the bigger sense, what you're saying here, it's not just technology, it applies to everything in life, which is there's always a point of diminishing returns. I mean, exercise is no different, focusing on your, you know, diet and nutrition is no different. You know, when you become obsessive about something, it's usually not healthy, you know, it moves beyond the level of healthiness. It's just that technology by and large has habit building aspects to it on purpose. So, you know, look, you know, computer programmers are not stupid people. These are incredibly intelligent individuals who study the science behind it. You know, and we do too, in my businesses, they're technology focused. I mean, we study habit loops and habit patterns. We want you to develop the habit to continuously come back. That's how our business survives. So that is no different than any sort of social network or any sort of app or anything else. If it's done well, it's done to make you addicted to it. So, so that, that part, you know, is a serious aspect of it. There's a lot of science behind that. And what happens is, of course, is if you become addicted to it and it becomes to start to control you instead of you it. And, and that's what you're seeing personally, play out in your life, is you were being controlled by those technologies and now you're starting to take that control back. And through that process, you're freeing up the psychic energy within yourself to instead of being controlled, instead of having that psychic energy be controlled by it, you are controlling that psychic energy and, and leveraging it and, and facilitating where that energy goes now. And that energy happens for you to be put into your writing and other creative endeavors, which is causing you to produce better work. Work something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from uncommon goods. 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Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Then, the place to be, to be. I think that what is happening here is that the noise of all that just starts to fill our lives and it gets to a point. It's great when you start out because it's like, "Hey, cool, I can share all this stuff. I can put it out into the world." Then, next thing you know, like you said, it starts to control you instead of you controlling it and you have to use those tools to serve you, not to sabotage you. A knife can be used to spread butter on a piece of bread or it can be used to kill someone. It's a tool. It's how you personally use that tool that matters most. I don't think that it's technology's fault. I don't think that it's the app's fault. I don't think it's the app developer's fault. I think it's our responsibility as a citizen of that technology to use it in a way that serves us, not sabotages us. Now, that's not easy. That's really easy for me to say. That's not easy to do. You have to be aware of that. You have to do things like go on digital detoxes. You have to do, put in systems and other things in place or like, in your case, delete apps from your phone or whatever on occasion. But it doesn't mean you have to swing from one side to the other. There's a happy medium in there as well. There's times to use technology and there's times not to use technology that serves you. But I think what's fascinating to me is it's all about clutter in my mind. It's all about clutter of the mind. When you free up that energy to be used for your creativity, it's amazing what you can create. But it's very hard to free up that energy when you have so many things coming at you and so many distractions in your way, you don't have the opportunity to free up that energy, which is why me personally, that's why I don't adopt a lot of technologies that other people do. It's not that I don't know about them. It's not that I don't appreciate them. It's not that I don't leverage them in business, but I just personally don't do that so that I can keep my mind clear as often as possible. Yeah. That's actually really interesting. It's funny because I've noticed for sure when you start to delete stuff and you start to clear clutter. Even if you listen to our guest from earlier this week, Stephen Kotler, who talked about the neuroscience of flow, when he got really sick with Lyme disease, he said, "What is the secret to it?" He said, "Really, it comes down to narrowing everything down to the four or five most important things in your life and doing only those things." He said, "You'll be amazed what happens in your life when you're willing to do that." It's funny. I love that you said there's a happy medium because earlier today, when I knew we were going to talk about this, I was doing research on Ted Gizinski. Basically, you're saying there's a happy medium. What Greg is saying is you don't need to become the next Unabomber, and that's not what we're advocating here. It was really interesting to read that and think, "Huh, I wonder why." Apparently, he wrote a manifesto. I'm very curious about this guy's work now. I think he took it to an extreme and he was insane. To me, it's a bit strange that we have reached a point where we needed a digital detox. That worries me. I think we're going to be playing with dangerous territory. No, I disagree. I think that we're so short-sighted that's what tends to happen. In my opinion, I think if you need a digital detox, it's not a problem. It's a digital detox. I don't think that's any different than needing a body detox. If you're running rampant all the time and you're in an environment that's filled with toxins and other things, your body needs a detox. You don't not live in New York City or LA because it has pollution. You just do the things you need to do to live in LA and still have a thriving body and still have a thriving mind. I think that we think of those things as extremes instead of those things as just a part of life. A part of life is to take a digital detox. It's not a, "Oh my God, I'm desperate I have to take a digital detox." It's build that into your life and then it's not a big deal. I think that that's what happens is we become so short-sighted and we think things have to be drastic like that instead of just that's a part of life, a part of life is we're digitally connected all the time. Another part of life is take breaks from it and really it can be quite that simple. Yeah, well now that you've put it that way, as you were saying that I was thinking, "Okay, you know what? The detox doesn't have to be the detox camp that they have. It's making us a part of your daily life." It's true. I've started taking long walks and as I was thinking about this, I thought, "You know, this is something I need to do daily. I really should just do this daily." I think that like I will tell you, the most creative time I have is the time when I am not connected to technology. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you a lot. We charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. The price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three-month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of detail. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance. Why? 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Yeah, you know, I think that you'll get to a certain point where you realize that, okay, you know what? I need to do something about this. And I think that you're right. I mean, I think that once you get into the routine, it just becomes part of your daily life. It's, you know, I think that it was Danny Shapiro, who we had here a while back, that you know, convinced me of the virtues. You know, I remember. She's specific. I asked her about this idea of, you know, in her book, she says, fill your ears with the music of good sentences. And I said, you know, so how do you suggest I do that? And she said, by not starting the day in front of the computer. Yeah. And I thought, that's actually quite profound. So, and that was, that, for me, that was the case for getting back to reading physical books again. Like, now I'm actually getting books in the mail, and I'm realizing this is actually kind of nice. You read slower. And even when you write by hand, like you write slower, like I think there's something very different about the way you slow down in these processes. Well, I think just a personal observation on my, my, and by the way, I'm really curious to hear what the listeners have to think of this. If we've reached an extreme level of, you know, digital connection, that it's actually hurting our creativity and hurting our processes, or if people think it's no big deal or, you know, I'm curious to know what the listeners think if, if all of us need to go on a massive digital detox bootcamp or whatever. Well, then nobody would be listening, Greg, if we did that, that'd be a problem. Yeah, yeah, I know, so don't go that extreme that we couldn't pay our bills. But no, I'm really curious because this is a topic, you know, this has obviously been a topic of conversation over the last couple of years, especially with the adoption, you know, rate of social media and social networks, you know, but I remember seeing a photo, somebody posted a photo recently of, of a train car, you know, it was like a commuter train, probably in New York City, on the way into Manhattan. And everybody had a newspaper up in front of their face and nobody was talking to each other, right? And so it was kind of like, you know, 50 years ago version of today where everyone has their phone up to their face and no one's talking to each other. And that's what I mean is sometimes I think we get short sighted about this. We act as if like we're so different today than we were 50 years ago when we're really not. Our behaviors are very much similar, we're just doing different things. But I'm curious to know what the listeners think. So write in unmistakablecreative.com/contact, very, very interested in that. But a personal observation in you, Sraini, is I think what's happening is it's allowing you to slow down a bit because you're such a, you run at such a fast pace and your tempo is so quick. And I think that the, you know, digital technologies that you've been adopting over the recent years has actually accelerated that for you to the point where your mind has become noisy. And now you're adopting processes that slow that down and through the process of slowing that down, you're starting to tap into different angles of your creativity that you weren't before. Yeah. No, I think that's a, that's a pretty accurate observation. It's funny because as you were talking about this, you know, for those of you guys who haven't seen our Facebook page, Sarah Steenland is doing some pretty clever illustrations that are like a social commentary on a lot of it. And I think one of the really funny ones is it's one of her basically sitting at the computer saying, Oh my God, I got all this work done. And then, you know, she pretends to be like, you know, taking a break and 10 minutes later, she's back at her laptop. Yeah. Yeah. No, those drawings are great by the way. I mean, that, that Facebook page is starting to get pretty fun and clever, you know, with all those pictures, but yeah, I mean, it, look, technology is here to stay. We know that for sure, and it's only going to be a bigger part of our lives. And so the question becomes is, what do we do about it? How do we make sure that we can tap into our creative energy? How do we make sure that our mind doesn't become so cluttered that we're not producing and instead we're just consuming? It's an interesting question, you know, and one that I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts about. Well, definitely write in at unmistakablecreative.com/contact. Let's review our iTunes reviews, Greg, and then we'll close everything up. Brandon Barnett writes in, says, "You are not alone, streaming knows how to get to the heart of the matter. This podcast celebrates the individual while reminding the listeners that we are not alone. As a Nashville-based songwriter, I can assure you this is not just for bloggers." Well, thank you for that. That is awesome. We're happy to hear that we are getting, you know, people who are songwriters listening to us. That's awesome. Yeah, and here's another one, Scrappy Decody, eminent creative essence. This team is an example of how to rebrand and relaunch successfully. They pop the bubble and created fresh air. New website is awesome. Content is relevant. Candid Smartin brings me back. Nice. Nice. Well, that's Scrappy Decody. I don't know whose name that is. I really appreciate that because you know how scary it is to change the brand like that? Oh, man, it's unnerving. So it's good to hear that kind of feedback. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. Especially, you know, after five years of going in one direction. Yeah. Okay, so here is another one by, "I love this app" is the user name. Wow. Where do I start? Well, for those of you who don't know, Srinivas Rao, the founder of Blogcast FM, well, Blogcast FM was an amazing podcast in its own right, focusing mainly on the world of blogging. What it is morphed into with the unmistakable creatives is leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessor. What we have now is a podcast that trumps many others in creativity. It has the same depth, intelligence, and voice that was Blogcast FM. Wow. Wow. What do you say to that, Jeez. Yeah. Well, thank you for that. That's amazing. Adi K. Martin, who has been one of our longtime listeners, I've been learning so much from the unmistakable creative podcast. I've been a devoted listener for about a year and have gained so much insight from the interviews. I feel like I get more from these shows than any other source that I rely on learning more about growing and being better at what I do. I can see my thinking approach to work is fundamentally shifting for the better. I'm grateful for the compass. Well, I love that. Yeah. That's great. I've actually met her in person. She's an awesome person. That's right. She's in New Orleans. Well, shout out to Adi and then Tammy Strobel, who actually was one of our guests before wrote in. The unmistakable creative podcast is the only podcast that I listened to consistently. I love the interviews and stories. Hearing other stories makes me feel less alone and inspired to keep creating. So love those reviews. You guys are amazing. I mean, that may be some of the most stellar reviews we've received in quite some time. Yeah. Well, I mean, they just keep getting better and better and better. I mean, people are really writing in. People are loving it and it inspires us to keep going and keep building and keep making it better. Although, I mean, that part, I'm sure, drives you crazy at times when I'm constantly like I said, we can do better, but these kinds of things inspire us to do better and hopefully it's paying off. Yeah. And keep those reviews coming as we've mentioned to you guys before. They make a huge difference on our ability to find sponsors and also to keep growing the show. You know, the more you write reviews, the more people find out about us, the bigger that we can, you know, get in terms of bringing you guys high profile guests and really cool and interesting people. So keep those coming and we'll talk to you guys next Friday. Thanks for listening in on another candid conversation at the unmistakable creative. Embrace your inner misfit. Express your creative voice. And remember, the goal isn't to live forever, but to create something that will. How did you actually sleep last night? 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