The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

The Making of Super Size Me with Alex Jamieson

Alex Jamieson co-wrote the iconic food documentary Super Size Me. That eventually led to the publication of The Great American Detox, and multiple best belling books that followed. In this interview we take a look at the relationship between the food we consume and our bodies.

Here a few of the highlights.

How the loss of a parent gave Alex clarity
Hitting rock bottom and the a downward health spiral
The stark relief and clarity found in a health crisis
Why the library is a perfect place to go when you feel lost
A deep look at the ability to heal ourselves with food
Escaping the cubicle life for culinary school
Reconnecting with the dreams and desires of our youth
Defining what a successful life means to you
Why you can have a legacy even if you're at the same job your whole life
Conducting a nonjudgmental inquiry of how you show up in the world
Viewing your life as a series of successful failures
Learning to forgive the grudges we hold against our loved ones
A look at how the Whole Foods Vegan Diet Healed Morgan Spurlock
The importance not judging all the things you do
Taking a look at the value of a super simple life
Learning how to detoxify your life by changing multiple things
Changing 2 or 3 key ingredients that could change your whole life
Learning to pay attention to the desires that are ignited within you
The correlation between creativity and risk
A deep dive into the film making process
Why you never stop creating even at the pinnacle of success
Honoring the trust that people put in you

Alex Jamieson is a Certified Holistic Health Counselor accredited through the Columbia University Teacher’s College and the American Association of Drugless Practitioners. Her approach to holistic health undid the damage Morgan Spurlock’s 30-Day McDonald’s binge did to his body in the Oscar-nominated documentary Super Size Me, and she has spoken on Oprah, CNN, and MSNBC.

Resources Mentioned

Super Size Me

The Great American Detox

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Broadcast on:: 10 Feb 2014
Audio Format:: other

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We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer, all to help improve lives in our shared backyard. And that's energy and progress. For the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 Sneaky Hello Trivia question. Call that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. Alex Jamieson co-wrote the iconic food documentary Super Size Me, which eventually led to the publication of her book, The Great American Detoxed Diet, and multiple best-selling books that followed. In this interview, we take a look at the relationship between the food we consume, our bodies, and the filmmaking process for Super Size Me. Alex, welcome to The Unmistakable Creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Oh, thanks, man. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah. Well, I'm thrilled to have you. It's funny. You and I got to sit down and have drinks and then Bob could be into exactly what your work was all about. And I was like, wait a minute. I'm like, should co-wrote Super Size Me? I'm like, how did that come up in our conversation? Anyways, before we get into all of that, I'm really curious about the journey that you've experienced your story, your background, and how that has led to all the things that you have worked on. Yeah. You know, this is really great timing. I feel like you're catching me at a time where I have so much clarity around how the heck all this came to be because actually my mom just passed away really recently, just several weeks ago. And I have this incredible tunnel 2020 vision on my life in the last month that has really been a lot of pieces have just fallen into place where it's just a series of insights and whoa. And I mean, talk about aha moments when luckily my mom and I had a great understanding of each other in the last few years and there's no unresolved stuff, but I'm able to see how all of everything I am came from how I was raised. And it started in my childhood. I was raised by my parents who are both teachers and my mom was also this incredible artist and gardener on this organic mini farm outside of Portland, Oregon. And she had an organic gardening radio show for 10 years on the little local public radio station. And just recently we found the recording of her last show where she says, you know, I'm ending the show after 11 years and I really hope that someone picks this up and keeps going with it because it's so hard to find the information on how to raise food organically. And you know, this was in like 86 and at the time, yeah, she was it, you know, there was no internet. She was the one who was bringing together all the resources and helping people call into the radio station to find out this really important information about how you could garden and grow your own food healthfully. So I just I grew up knowing how to grow food. And I know the work that goes into it and the love and the patience, but I also had this insane, sweet tooth, you know, my mom was one of those hippie moms that only brought carob into the house for the first 10 years of my life. And even I knew the difference. I was like, this is not chocolate, okay. But I discovered that I could be very crafty. And I found out that the kids that went to Sunday school at the church down the street got cookies and Kool-Aid. So I started going to Sunday school by myself at age seven. Like I was literally going to church to drink the Kool-Aid on a weekly basis so that I didn't learn anything about Jesus, which is funny considering what you just said. I literally just went for the snacks and continued to get as much sugar as possible by getting my own jobs and working in high school. But I say luckily, luckily I got very sick at the age of 25 because of the way I ate. You know, I really lived on junk food and fast food and take out for about 10 years. And when I moved to New York City at the age of 25, my body just collapsed. What was left of my immune system, I think maybe the stress of the city, I had to go on antibiotics for a knee surgery. It destroyed what was left of my immune system. And I started putting on weight really quickly. I was depressed. I had no energy. I had migraine headaches three, four days a week. And I had this moment where I was like, wait, I'm 25, I'm not supposed to feel this bad. And I went to a doctor and I told him what was going on and really within a few minutes of being in his office, he handed me a couple of prescriptions for painkillers and said I should get some Prozac or another antidepressant. And I had a moment of real clarity and fear because another piece of my childhood came into this stark relief. You know, when I was between the ages of three and five, my mom's sister and her father, my grandfather, both committed suicide by overdosing on their prescription painkillers. They were both, you know, he was a doctor and he was prescribing his own drugs for himself and he was giving them to my aunt. And I had so much fear and unresolved issue in my family around their deaths. And it totally destroyed my mom for a while, you know, to lose her sister and her father in such close proximity to each other that I was always really afraid of taking any prescriptions that I didn't have to. So here I am 25, feeling sick, not knowing what to do. I'm in all this pain and I'm given these prescriptions and I just didn't want to take them. And you know, so I was juggling all these different emotions and I felt like there's got to be an answer to this pain I'm feeling without, like I want to heal myself. I don't just want to mask the symptoms with drugs. So I went to another doctor who was way more holistic and hippie-ish, someone my mom would have totally loved and he asked me what I was eating. And when I told him, he said, "Ah, no wonder you're sick." You know, it was McDonald's and fast food and soda and caffeine and sugar or sugar sugar all the time. And he put me on a diet. He said, "We're taking you out sugar and caffeine, we're going to take out wheat and corn and all these other things. Only fish and eggs, no other animal products." And I nearly cried in his office. I was like, "This sounds terrible, it sounds so hard, I don't know how to do this." But I would really, that was my moment of hitting bottom. And that sounded like a better alternative than going on the prescription drugs because of that fear I associated with the suicides in my family. So I took his list of foods and searched out the health foods. This was 13 years ago, there was no whole foods yet. There were a couple of health, I didn't know any vegetarians or even what a vegan was. And I kind of stumbled through it, but I went to the library and let me just do a little shout out for libraries. If you are ever lost about what to do next, go to the library and just start flipping through books because I discovered this huge section of books on food and healing. And it ignited this huge desire in me. It's like, "Ah, this is amazing. Like, people have been doing this for centuries, they've been healing themselves with food. How cool is that?" And I just dove into this renaissance of learning everything I could. The problem was, I didn't know how to cook. So even though I knew how to grow lettuce, I couldn't cook anything really well. So I ended up going back to culinary school. I found this amazing school here in New York City called the Natural Gourmet Institute. And I took one evening class there, just super basic stuff, and I was like, "This is it. Oh my God. If I can heal myself with food, which I had in a couple of weeks on this guy's diet, I took out all the crap, my health totally improved. The headache stopped, the weight was falling off, the depression vanished. It was like a miracle." I thought, "I've seen the light. I've got to help other people do this. It's so cool when you can really make it happen and turn things around." So I went back full time to culinary school. I quit my corporate law job that I was getting into, which was not fun at all. Everything in the kitchen all day was really fun. And that's how right around that same time, so I was going to culinary school, super healthy, hippie cooking school during the day, like learning Ayurvedic cooking and macrobiotics. And then at night to make money to go to school, I was working in this smoky Irish pub that was a totally yin-yang lifestyle. And I was eating hummus all day and then Guinness all night. It was fabulous. And while I was there, I picked up this guy at the bar one night and he was cute and he was really interesting and his name was Morgan and we started dating. And within a couple of years of me saying, "Hey, this is quinoa. Try this. Hey, this is kale. Eat that." All the conversations we had about food and health and the school system and how people are fed in hospitals and schools and we came up with the idea for super-sizinging together. Wow, so there's a ton of stuff here. So let's take a few steps back to the beginning of this. I'm really glad that you brought up childhood and kind of how you were raised. I've asked this question to a few people and I feel like some people can find that sort of thing from their childhood that allows them to connect to their work today in a way they never have before. And I think that gets lost. I think that gets completely stripped from us as we become adults and we conform to what's expected of us in the world. I was raised from the polar opposite of hippie parents. I was raised by Indian parents, although some people might think they're hippie parents. We had to learn how to be hippies. But conformity is so encouraged by the culture that I grew up in. I guess my question really is, you having sort of been able to find that clarity, especially now looking back, how do we find that thing that we have lost that connects to our work today? Well, I think I was really lucky in that my parents from the beginning were all about, you know, follow your passion. They really hammered that home, you know, even though my dad had, you know, he was very responsible, upstanding citizen. He was a high school principal for 25 years, but they both, they both were very clear that they had followed their passions in life and that if you stick with it and you go with what you love, you will have a successful life, whatever that means to you. And they were also pretty clear, you know, either through example or through actually saying it. And you know, I've had a lot of coaches and I've followed a lot of, you know, self-helpy type books and programs over the years. So I was lucky enough to see that you could, you know, a lot of what I had tried early in my career. My first job out of college was working at an advertising firm in media planning, selling Clorox bleach, which I got to tell you, I don't care about selling bleach to people. It was obviously not my passion, so I tried something else and then something else. But it was the freedom to find my way, not because it either agreed or disagreed with my parents' viewpoint, you know. And I think that's what's even more challenging for people is not, you know, following dad because he did this company, you know, following in mom's footsteps, but also not, not following in their footsteps just because you don't want to be like them. It's acknowledging that, yes, I come from these people and I am of these people, but I am still myself and I have my own perspective and my own talents and I can, you know, I think it takes a level of maturity that some people find at 18 and some people don't find until they're 38 or 58 that, oh, this is what I want, oh, this is what I love, this is me. And it just takes a lot of inquiry and a lot of non-judgmental seeing of your past. I think you have to get interested in looking at your stuff, you know, I know plenty of people who are not interested in looking at, you know, how they show up in the world, but they're also not seeing the other possibilities for themselves because of that. Well, I love this. So, I mean, you run up this whole idea of inquiry and non-judgmental seeing, oh, God, I mean, they're so, you're right. I think that to me, I think one of the things that is really difficult for people is they're terrified of what they might discover if they go there. Yeah. And, you know, I also love that you run up that, you know, for some people it happens at 18, others 38, I mean, I, you know, I think I wrote recently, I wrote a little thing on Facebook that said, you know, this is a letter to my 18-year-old self and I said, you know, you will not, you know, you know, you'll start working at age 18, but your career will begin at 30. Yeah, and, you know, it's so interesting, I've heard this from my dad a few times now. He's recently retired and he looks at my career and he's like, wow, your career would not have been possible when I was growing up or possible for very, very few people because we can create our own things now and our totally our own perspective and voice using the internet and internet marketing and, you know, all of our disparate wild passions can come together in one, you know, personal brand and that does take a certain level of bravery and willing to fail in full view of other people. I call it my, my life is a series of successful failures, you know, where I tried one thing didn't work. Okay, keep going. But you have to, especially when you start putting yourself online and out there and getting fans and followers and dealing with social media, all that stuff, you have to be willing to be honest and face the judgment and repercussion that may come back to you. Yeah. Well, I love the honesty part. I mean, that's that's definitely that has set me free in more ways than you can imagine, but I want to dig deeper into this idea of non judgmental inquiry because I think that people can kind of understand that, but I mean, gosh, like to look at our past and to not judge it. That's so that's so hard to do until you finally get to the point where you're capable of doing it. Yeah, absolutely. You can you can try and try and try to do that. It's like forgiveness, you know, but you have to be able to forgive yourself and forgive your parents. I mean, we think we all see the ways that our parents maybe didn't do it right, but, but I know again, it's kind of a strange thing to say that I got a real gift out of my mom's passing that I'm I totally forgive all the teenage grudges that I held against her for so long. It's like, you know what, she did the best she could and her best was pretty awesome because here I am. I'm still alive. I'm a fully functioning, creative being and thank you mom for that. So this non judgmental inquiry, you really have to be willing to step up and forgive and tell your parents, hey, mom, dad, you did it right. Thank you. And that's that's a huge hurdle. It was for me for a long time and I know it is for a lot of other people as well. And, you know, I've been working in the health and wellness world for almost 14 years now. Yeah, 14 years now, crazy. And and this whole non judgmental inquiry, I mean, that's what my whole business is built around now. I had a very distinct point of view when it came to health, you know, when I did that whole diet detox where I I cured myself with diet 14 years ago. Well, you know, that that was following a vegan diet. I became vegan. I was totally into it. I wrote three books about it, you know, after supersize me, I healed, I helped Morgan heal his body again after he got so sick, you know, he gained 24 and a half pounds his cholesterol went up 60 points, his liver was so filled with fat. He was giving himself non alcoholic hepatitis in a month of eating fast food and we were able to completely turn around and heal everything in two months using a whole foods vegan diet, taking the sugar and the junk out. So I, you know, I was like, whoo, everybody should try this. This is the way forward. And I still believe it's a very powerful tool, but it's just one of the powerful tools. And I had to be, I had to reach a place of non judgmental inquiry with myself when a few years ago, after publishing three books on vegan cooking and living, I started to crave meat. This was, this was not okay. I was very irritated with my body. And, you know, some, you know, a few people may have seen my kind of coming out blog. I put that in quotes, you know, I wrote a blog post, I'm no longer, I'm not vegan anymore about a year ago now. And it was so hard to publish that blog post. It took me months of rewriting and delaying myself before I finally put that up. But I had to get to an even deeper place of non judgmental inquiry with myself. Like, hey, this is what's true for me now. My body is now asking for animal protein. It did great for over a decade on a completely vegan diet. It was exactly the right thing for me to do and to help share with other people. And now things are different. You know, your body changes over time. It was great for me at 25 at 38. It's not working. I may go back to it again, but you can't discover what's right for you if you judge everything you do. You have to be open. Now you've hit one of my hop buttons, something that really honestly has been kind of an ongoing thread in the show here, especially this idea of this, you know, non judgmental inquiry of ourselves, because I think that when we get to this point of having a voice or having an opinion, one that, you know, many people follow or many people listen to or many people read, we give ourselves sort of tunnel vision and, you know, you get to this point where, you know, I was, I remember there was a point at which I gave a talk at Pepperdine thinking everybody should go and do their own thing. And, you know, here I am three and a half years later, and my conclusion is that this is not for everybody. Like, I would definitely not think that everybody should, you know, go out and do their own thing or start their own thing because it really, for some people, other paths are much more, you know, fitting. I mean, Pamela Slim talked about this. She said, everybody has their own sacred journey. And I think that, you know, once I got to that, it changed a lot of things about the way I approached my work. Absolutely, you know, I can't imagine doing my life or my business any way differently. You know, I'm a coach, I'm a writer, I run these huge detox programs online, you know, I have a flexibility with my life that's really fabulous for me. But I'm so glad my dad was a high school principal for 25 years at the same school. You know, he lived in the same town, worked at the same school for 25 years. He created an incredible legacy and touched so many people's lives through this one school. And I'm so proud of him and what he created. I think that's awesome. And you know, like I said, he has said to me, you know, I'm so proud of what you're doing, but it's not something I could do. But what's awesome is that there is a place for everyone. There really is a way for all of us to be successful in whatever way feels right. And that's what makes this time so exciting, that the options are all out there. They really are. But it does take that non-judgmental really looking at what you want. What do you want? You know, gosh, I asked my clients that and some of them break into tears. Either they've never been asked that question or they've never allowed themselves to really ask themselves that question, what do I really want in my life? Like, why do I want to lose weight? Why do I want to have more energy? Is it just so I can work more? God, no. Maybe there's something different. You know, the other thing I think when I hear about this idea of what we want, right? You know, for me, one of the big sort of profound realizations I had is there's such a big distinction between what we actually want and what we think we want. Because sometimes you get it and you're like, oh, this isn't quite what I thought it would be. Yes, yeah, for sure. And I love thinking about, you know, I'm actually writing my next book right now and it's, you know, women, food and desire. What do our cravings really mean? Whether it's cravings for sugar or fat or shopping or fame or a relationship. You know, what do we think those things are actually going to get us? How do we really want to feel and why do we want to feel those ways? You know, again, these are the, these are the questions. Like when you really start looking and feeling what it is, you want to feel like most of the time in your life and I'm really inspired by Danielle LePort's desire map. Her work is so great. And you know, combining that with Brene Brown and all these other people, like getting really vulnerable about who you are, what you are and how you want to feel that that's, I think that's kind of the work you need to dig into to start creating the life that you are going to be really happy with and it could be a super simple life, which is awesome. It's also possible. Super simple, happy life, sign me up. So let's do this. Let's shift gears a little bit. I mean, I want to talk about one of what appears to me to be one of your sort of moly moments but also rock bottom in your life when you got really sick. You know, you bounced back and I know a lot of people who don't and I'm very curious. I mean, do you think there is something inherently built into people that gives them that capacity or do you think it's something that we can develop? Because what I am learning about living, you know, a creative life, you know, one of trying to be an artist who makes a living from his or her work is that it requires an insane amount of resilience and you have to have that ability to bounce back. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that based on sort of the experience you've had with health. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there were a number of factors in how I was able to bounce back and the first thing was that I was young, you know, I was 25. And I do believe that for a good percentage of people, not for everyone, but when you change your diet, do a detox at a young age, you know, depending on your background and how far into the illness you are, it's going to be a quicker turnaround. But I tell you what, I think what had, it's hard to know because I only did it the way I did it so I can't know how another way would have worked, but I didn't just change my diet. Yes, I completely changed my diet. I took out all the refined foods, but I also stopped working in the job that was totally boring and debilitating. You know, I stopped working the 14 hour under fluorescent lights job that I hated and went back to school for something that I was so passionate about. And I ended a relationship around the same time, which wasn't really nurturing me. It was time for that relationship to be over. So I changed my diet, my job and my relationship within the span of a few months. And that's actually one of the key is to, you know, people who go on diets and actually they work, you know, people who lose the weight and it stays off for good. They generally make some other kind of major life shift. You have to have a life that's worth living for in a way, if you're really going to stick with the program. So I think it was a combination of, wow, my diet isn't working. My life isn't working. I need to really step into a life that I love. So I think that's the, if there's any grit or resiliency in me, it's the, I think it's this ability to take big risks and just step into what I think is the next best place for me. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. 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Individual results may vary. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. And we are back and better than ever. Got your answers is for sale. If you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 Sneaky have no trivia question. All that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. It's interesting you bring this up. I think that we try to compartmentalize change. I think far too often we think, "Hey, if I change this one thing, everything else will change." Somebody once explained it to me more like a hub and spoke model that each change is one of the spokes and a wheel. I look at, people have asked me about surfing and I say, "There's no way I could do anything." Many of my creative work wouldn't be what it is without that because it kind of bled into every other area of my life. It caused me to make other changes. It was like, "Okay, now suddenly I'm healthy and I want to stop doing all these other things as well." It's like this one big change happens and then it has all these sort of byproducts of it. I think it's interesting that it's a holistic approach. I think that we often think that, "Okay, if I change this one thing, that's all that matters." Right, right. Some people call that a keystone habit. I call it a heart habit. That just feels more feminine and juicy for me. To change one or two, to change the two or three key ingredients in your life that are going to have this amazing ripple effect that change everything else. It could be going to yoga in the morning. If you have to get up at six and go to yoga, then you're more likely to go to bed early. You have to streamline the rest of your day so you get as much work done. You have to, you know, you're in community with other people. It just has a big effect and it sounds like that's what surfing was for you. It really changed the flow of your life. Oh, yeah. No doubt. So that actually takes me to my next question. When you talked about this idea of stepping into a life you love, leaving the job under the fluorescent lights, which I can guarantee you, there are people who are probably sitting under fluorescent lights while they're listening to this. So you know, I think that the question for me becomes how in a realistic and practical way considering, you know, the fact that people have real needs, do we build a bridge from sort of the toxic life that really is bad for us to the one, you know, to stepping into the life we love? Well, there may be absolutely nothing wrong with your job under the fluorescent lights. Although you could, you know, try to get some full spectrum light bulbs in at your desk and some green plants. Those are my first two recommendations. Get some living house plants for your desk and some good light bulbs. You know, there may be absolutely nothing wrong with what you're doing now, but there may be some significant tweaks you can make that just make you feel better. And you know, I don't know how to, I'm not really a career coach. So I don't know about completely switching gears for other people, but I would say if you don't know what you want, you have to start experimenting, you know, being willing to experiment. That's why, you know, I say the my life of successful failures. It's just a creative iterative process of trying different things as they pop up, but you have to be willing to go for and step into those desires when they come up. You know, I know lots of people who say, yeah, I always wanted to try a dance class or writing class or, you know, get extra training on this kind of design or something, but I haven't done it. Why not? You know, whatever that desire was that popped up, it popped up as a sensation that it popped up as a yes in your body, in your electrical field somehow. And once you give it to yourself, not to make, you know, not to make yourself the best at it, but just to try it and see, wow, is this, is this fun? Do I like this? How does this feel? What does it leave me to next? You kind of got to be willing to like go down the rabbit hole a little bit. Well, I think that makes a perfect setup for my next question, which, you know, you mentioned earlier that, you know, healing yourself ignited this desire in you to really spread this message and it's played itself out in so many impactful ways. You know, in my mind, I think one of the things that requires is an insane amount of self-awareness to realize, hey, this is the desire that's been ignited. And in addition to the experiments, I mean, the experiments probably reveal what the desire might be. How do you get to the point where you're like, okay, this is the thing that has been ignited. It has to play itself out in so many ways. And then we'll start getting into supersize me and all the other things that you've done. Yeah. Um, why? That's such a good question. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it through somebody else's words because they said it's so much better than me. I can't remember which Supreme Court judge it was, but, you know, they were trying to define pornography, you know it when you see it. It's like porn, you're passionate that you know it when you see it. You get to, you know, you have to be willing to go a little bit past the point of rational, I think to find it, you have to be, again, willing to take risks. You know, I've been reading some stuff on risk and creativity and all the stuff that's coming out about flow and, you know, there's, you know, new books coming out about being in the state of flow and what all that means. And you know, setting aside your fear a little bit, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, all that stuff. I feel like these are all like overstated things that I'm just rehashing things other people have said, but man, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, being willing to risk and step into creativity, risk some money, risk some time, risk of failure. It becomes a little addictive in a way so you do have to be careful that you don't just keep risking to get the high. But when, you know, when you have the awareness of balancing risk and responsibility like, yeah, I'm going to try this thing, but I'm still going to be able to pay my rent. That's a pretty good sweet spot, I'd say, for a lot of people. So let's do this. Let's shift gears a little bit and let's start talking about a supersize me. I mean, since we've been talking so much about creativity and risk, I mean, I think you're the first documentary filmmaker that I've ever had on the show and not only that, you've made a wildly successful documentary. So, I mean, you know, obviously you come to this conclusion that, hey, you know, we're going to make supersize me, I mean, talk to me about that process. I mean, because like, it sounds like, you know, the desire that was ignited has played itself out in the form of books, it's played itself out in the form of films. And I'm really curious about the process of translating that desire that's been ignited into something as gargantuan as a film that does just, like, I look at it, like, you know, one of my dream projects is to possibly do a documentary film, but I have no idea where I would start. Yeah, that's great. Well, I have to say that, you know, Morgan was the filmmaker, you know, he went to film school and we were a partnership, we were a team. We were dating at the time, living together, but I was, you know, we brought our creative talents together as a real team, you know, I was the one going out and volunteering in local schools in the kitchen just to see, because I was curious, like, how does the school lunch program work? Oh, I met a lunch lady, can I come in and help? I just want to see how it works, like, how are we feeding kids? So and then I would bring these tales back to him. And we would talk about like, how messed up this all is, and then we had this conversation on the couch, on his mom's couch in Beckley, West Virginia on Thanksgiving Day in 2002 about these girls who were suing my McDonald's over their diabetes and obesity, you know, they were suing a food company. And Morgan said, that's crazy, you can't sue a food company, you bought the food, you went in there in your own free will. And I said, well, but look at how they market to children, look at how they market their food as safe to eat, healthy to eat, breakfast, lunch, and dinner all day long, you know, don't they have some responsibility? So it was this series of conversations and experiences that we brought together as a team that created the idea. And you know, his light bulb moment, we were having this conversation, he said, well, what if I just ate nothing but McDonald's for a month? And that was it. He was like, oh my God, that's a great idea. And he went and called his cameraman, and a month later we were shooting the movie. So now he had the skills and had been working as a budding filmmaker to know that he could craft a story and experiment with, you know, the knowledge and the conversations that we were having. It was just an ongoing conversation and exploration and we really didn't know how it was going to turn out. You know, we had no idea what was going to happen. Luckily, he got really sick. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been a very interesting movie. You know, his doctors all said, oh, nothing's going to happen. You might put on a few pounds, but the human body is really resilient. And I was the only one who said, dude, you are going to get so sick. This is going to be miserable for you. So luckily I was bright, they have a little bit of drama. And you know, he's a good filmmaker. He's a good storyteller. And he was able to craft that together and, you know, bring in all these voices for alternative medicine and food and health that I knew and had been following. And I was like, you've got to bring in this guy and go talk to these people. So it was a partnership. And that's what I really recommend for anyone, for you, who wants to bring a story to the screen. You know, I was just talking to Nick Politzi. He's a friend of mine. He's behind the movies, the documentaries, the sacred science and raw for 30 days and the tapping solution. You know, he kind of fell into documentary filmmaking as a way to bring the passions and stories to the masses that he cared about. And what's so cool is that filmmaking is so cheap and possible now. I mean, you can spend maybe 10 grand on all of the equipment and programs that you need to make a really good quality documentary now, which is very cool. That is one. And then you've got crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter, I mean, there's just a world of options. You know, one other question comes from me around this and I do want to talk about that whole Kickstarter concept. Because I think that to me, there's a much bigger narrative here around, you know, approaching big projects. But I mean, when you gather all of this information, I guess for me, you know, as a writer and somebody has written multiple books, I was also been involved in shaping the arc and narrative of a film. I mean, how do you take all of that and shape the arc and narrative of it so that it does result in a compelling story? Well, you shoot a lot, you shoot hundreds of hours of footage and, you know, he, what was helpful for Super Size Me that I think a few other food movies have missed a little bit. Some really amazing food documentaries come out in the last 10 years since Super Size Me, but Super Size Me was fun to watch. Why? Because you were watching Morgan do this experiment on himself. So having that through line as a way to examine the bigger issue was super helpful. Having a definitive beginning and a definitive end as part of the arc, that's really, really helpful. You know, it gives because otherwise you could just film forever, you know, it's like writing a book. I'm sure you've experienced this. You're like, Oh, wait, I need to know I need to add this and you can just go back and change it and change it and add to it forever. But you got to have got to give yourself a deadline. I call it freedom within the framework, you know, creativity is awesome, but you don't really start to push and flex your creative muscle unless you have constraints. So you have to build some kind of constraint, a challenge as it were, like what would happen if X that's a great place to start from. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I that more or less it's a pretty good way to sum up my creative process for the art of being unmistakable. I mean, it was like, what would happen if I just kept doing these ridiculously long Facebook updates and one day compiled them into a book. And I discovered a way of writing that I, you know, would have never stumbled upon. It was just an experiment that led to a lot of interesting things, which kind of brings us back to that whole thread. But you know, you know, you brought up the idea that, you know, nowadays it's cheaper than ever. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time before we were able to do stuff like this on our iPhones. I mean, I think that's where we're headed. But to me, there's even a larger story that plays out here for people when when they think about bigger projects or bigger creative endeavors. And that's sort of having the confidence to say, you know what, I'm capable of something this gargantuan or this crazy, and I am, you know, somebody who's done it, where do you find that and how do people find it? Wow. Well, again, I think it's finding a balance between risk and responsibility. I've never really said it in that way, but that's, yeah, that's what feels right. But you're moving forward, creating something that makes, it makes sense. You know, there's a there's a possible bonus end game to this project. Like, yeah, I'm going to publish a book out of all this, or I'm going to make a movie and get it into Sundance and distribute it, you know, there's a possibility of it leading you through your life and making money and, you know, being a benefit to you and other people. But you also have to really risk something in order to keep pushing you. You know, you have to, you know, we didn't, we didn't crowd fund our movie. We did crowdfunding called MasterCard, that was our ground funding. We were living off of my tips and credit cards for a good few months, and everyone who worked on the film, they barely got paid. I mean, we were all just scraping by to make this movie. So man, everyone put their heart and soul into it. But you know, because we had, you know, we had a leadership team, we had me and Morgan who believed in this film and said, yes, this is so important. And everyone bought into our idea, like, yeah, we really believe in this, that they were willing to put their livelihoods on the line. And yeah, people were working other jobs while we made it. And you know, I've done a series of things as I've grown my business, you know, doing catering on the side, doing cooking classes, you know, while doing coaching and writing books. And you know, it's all good. That's another part of the non-judgmental part of it is that sometimes when you're a creative, by an entrepreneur, you start off and you have to be willing to make your rent doing other things. But again, that's, I keep coming back to risk, like when you're risking something, you really want it to happen, because something is on the line, whether it's your, you know, whether it's your reputation, whether it's money, it could be, you know, unfortunately, it's often a relationship could be on the line. So balancing that with a really true responsibility for yourself that you need to bring your voice to the world, you have to tell the story, that's, I think that's the sweet spot. Awesome. So let me ask you this, I mean, obviously the sort of the after effects of this have been pretty profound. And I'm very curious kind of, you know, what has happened after supersizing, like, what has the impact of the film been, you know, on your life and then the world at large? Well, I was, you know, the impact of the film was awesome. You know, we toured, premiering the film all over the world. We went to over 20 countries in a year. The film got distributed in, I don't know, I think, 23 countries, and we went to all of them, had amazing passport stamps, it was fabulous. And it really, it was a lightning bolt in a bottle kind of movie. It just came out at the right time where there was this growing food movement and awareness and this film captured, it was, people were able to point to it and say, yes, that, that's what I've been talking about. So it was at the right time. And it allowed both of us to just really expand our budding careers. You know, I immediately wrote a book, The Great American Detoxed Diet, which came out right after the film and detailed how I healed my body, how I healed Morgan's body, which is still, you know, on Amazon selling well eight years later, Morgan went on to make more TV shows. We did a series called 30 Days that he and I were both in. I was in a few of the episodes and he was in all the episodes where, and really people stepped into another life, Allah supersized me to examine a social issue. And you know, he's made other movies and he has the series on CNN, so, yeah, so it's both just, it's enabled both of us to have a great kind of feather in our cap, like, yeah, we made this movie. And it really had an impact, you know, and getting to go to the Oscars was super cool going on that part, but that was really fun going on Oprah, all that stuff. It's fun and it's great, but you can't, you know, you can't say, well, I went on Oprah. So I'm done. No, you're never done. You keep going. You keep creating. And we, you know, we got married and we have a, we have a seven year old son together. We're not married anymore, but we live in the same neighborhood. We co-parent this great kid together and it's really enabled us to both keep going. And what's really fun is that this is actually the 10 year anniversary of supersize me. And there's still a lot of love out there for the film. I still get emails from people who say that was the first movie I saw and I realized how my diet was affecting my health. And I've changed my diet or I read your book and I'm, you know, I'm no longer diabetic or I, you know, I, I got off my heart medications, you know, that's powerful stuff. It's so, it's so humbling and so gratifying to have that effect. Well, you know, I love that you brought up that, you know, you're, you're, you're not done. Like there's no, no sort of, Hey, I've been on Oprah and I'm done. And I, you know, I, I generally do my tasks, people often have you ever had an, I've made it moment. And when I got asked that question, you know, I said, this was before the art of being unstable, you know, kind of had its success, I said, you know, I think that it's a myth. I think it's myth, a myth that people who think they haven't made it believe. And then when they get the accolade that they think, you know, basically defines making it, they realize how untrue that whole I've made it moment is. Yeah. And I don't know. I think that's true for so many of us. I, but I didn't realize it. I thought it was just me for a while. I was like, God, I'm so restless. Why can't I just be happy? And I realized, no, I am, I'm actually, I'm happy. Like I love, I love my life. I love my career. I love what I get to do. And there's still so much more. It's just a continuing exploration. And I'm so grateful that I get the opportunity and I take it really seriously. I take it very seriously that people read my stuff and look to me for new ideas and look to my programs for support. And I really want to honor that trust, which, you know, part of the, I guess part of what I didn't say about the coming out is no longer vegan, which was really why it was so challenging was that I felt like I was turning my back on people like I've been, I've been writing vegan recipes for over a decade. And I, again, I still believe that it's a super valuable, wonderful diet for people to try if they need help with their health. But when I found that it wasn't true for me anymore, I mean, the backlash was crazy. The thousands of comments, the thing went viral, the Facebook posts, the, the death wish emails. I mean, people were saying me dead, people saying, I hope you get cancer and die because you've turned your back on the animals. I hope you have a heart attack. It's like, wow, this is why I didn't publish that blog post for so long. I knew it was coming, but it was intense. It was really intense and I think, unfortunately, that kind of backlash is actually what keeps some people from trying new things like a vegan diet. I think that backlash from certain people in the community, I'm not saying all vegans are like this because they're not, I have lots of amazing friends who are vegans, don't care what I eat, they're, you know, they still love me, it's all good. But there are certain people who are very angry and will lash out. And I think people are curious about a vegan diet and lifestyle who are afraid to try it because of the backlash that happened to me and other people who have come out is no longer vegan. Because they're like, wow, what if I, what if I try it, and this is true for all kinds of things, not just diet, but what if I try, what if I try vegan, what if I try to be an entrepreneur, and it doesn't work. And then people have seen that I've failed and not, well, think that I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough. And that kind of vindictive judgmental culture we live in is really what holds people back. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance, why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent or go to statefarm.com. Hey, Prime members, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news! 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We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. Hey there, it's Greenie and HEMBO, and we are back and better than ever. This is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, HEMBO, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky HEMBO trivia question. All that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. Yeah, I'm not even going to touch it because, I mean, I agree, there's so much there and we could spend another hour talking if we started talking about that. Probably. Probably. You know, I mean, I will say, like, I think that that opens up, I mean, when you can get past that, I feel that's, you know, sometimes you have to cross the line to figure out where it's at and, I mean, the world just opens up to you in ways you can't imagine when you do. Yeah, and I guess I have our friend Jonathan Fields to thank for kind of pushing me out and finally getting me to publish the post in the first place. He's like, so, yeah, I'm, you know, I'd love to have you on the Good Life project. He's like, have you come out yet? Can I talk about it? And I said, yeah, you know, the video won't go out for a few months, right? And he said, yeah, yeah, so let's do it. And then he called me and he's like, hey, the video's ready. It's like two weeks later. It's like, so can I publish this? You talk about not being vegan anymore. I was like, oh, shit, better that blog post out there because I'm talking in Jonathan's interview about not being vegan anymore. So I thank him. I thank him every time I see him for pushing me out there and finally doing it. Sometimes you need, you know, that's another piece of it. Sometimes you need a really great community of people who are really holding you to your higher standard and your own truth to help you forward. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate that you brought up that you take, you know, everything so seriously. It's, it's really, I mean, it's one of those things I feel I've become very obsessed with is looking at, you know, I was telling somebody I said, you know, I think when I looked at our numbers for January, I got nervous because I said, wow, we just had a string of hits. It's like, you know, and I know when we're, you know, producing high quality work and it goes to that thing. It's like, oh, shit, how do I keep this going? Like, I'm like, okay, but my next sort of, you know, creative project is find everything that Pixar has ever done or every book written about Pixar so we can figure out what we can learn from them to, to keep a standard that is just continually getting better. And it's, it's, you know, and I go back and I have to like tear things apart and think about how it could be better. But I think that that's normal. I think it just comes with this work. Yeah. It does. It does. And I do think that having a, I just have to go back and say having a community of people who really love you and appreciate you for who you are, not what you self identify as is key, really key. Awesome. Well, you know, I mean, Alex, as a, as I've sat here and really just thought through a lot of what you've said and as I'm sort of digesting myself and processing it, I mean, it seems to me that, you know, your message is about so much more than just health and diet, but really detoxifying your whole life. Yeah. It is. Well, it's, it's really about finding what works for you in any given moment to help you feel the way you want to feel. And at the most basic level, that's about food, you know, it's the fuel we put in our body that makes up the cells that makes up the hormones that form our moods and her thoughts. But in general, it's about, it's really just about following your gut, listening to your cravings. You know, those cravings might be for food, it might be for sex, it might be for a new relationship or career. Your body is always telling you what's true for you. You just have to learn how to interpret that language. And it's a man, once you start to understand it and really give yourself the gift of listening to your own body, it's, it's profound, man. It's powerful and it's fun because then you start to feel good 98% of the time. Awesome. Well, Alex, I am going to close with my final question and, you know, it's funny because I finally came up with something new as opposed to the one I had been asking for hundreds of interviews. I mean, you know, our show is called the unmistakable creative. So in a world of this much noise, how do you become unmistakable? Oh, you know what, you're already unmistakable when you really just start expressing yourself, your true self, your true desires, all of your quirks, you're already unmistakable. You don't, you don't necessarily need to produce or deliver anything over top of who you already are. And I think that's, that's something that's hard for a lot of people to accept is that you are already awesome. I say this to my kid, my seven year old, like, I already love you. You don't have to do anything to make me love you more. Just be you, give, give the gift of you to all of us. You know, I felt this way about my mom. I'm going to get all misty here. I'm going to felt this way about my mom. I feel that way about my kid. I feel this way about my clients when I see them. I'm like, you are so awesome. You don't even see how brilliant you are. You're already unmistakable. It's, it's fantastic. And when you start to really love that and give yourself the gift of exploring your passions and your cravings, man, then you just have way more fun sharing it. Awesome. Well, I think that makes a beautiful way to sum up our conversation. Alex, it's been my absolute pleasure to have you here as a guest on the unmistakable creative. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story with our listeners. This was so fun. Thank you. And for those of you guys listening, we'll wrap the show with that. Thanks for listening in on another candid conversation at the unmistakable creative. Embrace your inner misfit, express your creative voice. And remember, the goal isn't to live forever, but to create something that will. 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