The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

The All or Nothing Internet

In this episode of the show we take a look at the economics of the internet. The web can be like a developing country with severe income disparity. While the barrier to entry is lower than ever, the wealth seems to remains in the favor of a select few people.

Here are the highlights from our chat

Why you have to blend technology and creativity to make something unmistakable
The HAVE’s and HAVE-NOT’s of the internet
Why the internet is about humans and software working together
How the income disparity will continue to grow across the internet
Why talent gets further ahead with less physical help
How tools are making it possible to get further faster
The rare instances of MASSIVE success on social platforms
How creating wealth leads to the creation of jobs for other people
The idea that maybe all we need to is have our basic needs met
Moving away from a society where everything is not good enough
Why a Youtube super star has no desire to be on television

Resources and People Mentioned

If the Internet Real was a Real Place – Dave Chapelle

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Broadcast on:: 07 Feb 2014
Audio Format:: other

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Just hanging out in Seattle. It's supposed to snow this week, so I'm looking forward to that. I think this is my first snow this winter. Is it snowing in Boston? You're in Boston, right? It was snowing in Boston. I was sitting in a Starbucks yesterday and it started to snow in Boston. I hope that's the last snow I see this winter because people from Southern California are not used to this. I looked and I was like, "What is that white stuff falling from the sky? Why is it colder all of a sudden?" I wouldn't leave the apartment yesterday that I'm at, because all the snow, I was like, "I'm not going out there. Are you kidding me?" Come on, put on a coat, go outside, have some fun. I'm just going to be meeting one of our listeners for dinner and I'm basically dreading that portion of it. The getting to the restaurant part actually terrifies me because it's so cold outside. That's what it means. Our listeners, as much as our listeners would love a Boston weather report, let's get into some of the feedback we got in because we got some great feedback from last week and the weeks before episodes. Last week, for those of you guys who don't remember, if you haven't heard it yet, we really had an interesting discussion around whether we are moving from a human-made world into a machine-made world and how our creativity is going to play a role. Steve writes in and he says, "We're moving more and more toward a world of choice. It's easier than ever to find people, plus communities, interested in what you're interested in, so if you want to be on the cutting edge of tech, you can get there." He says, "I think creativity plus technological advances go hand in hand rather than being mutually exclusive." What do you think, Greg? I think the people that can leverage both will do exceptionally well and I don't think that the majority of people can leverage both. I think the idea that most of us understand technology or know how to manipulate it is not accurate. There's a select few in the grand scheme of things who do, but more and more of us need to understand how technology works and how to manipulate it. We don't need to necessarily know how to code something, but we need to know how code works, in my opinion, if we're going to really excel and do well. But I do agree with the idea that you can definitely combine creativity with technology and do very well. Yeah. I mean, that's more or less a lot of people who've been on this show, right? Their gift was their ability to combine creativity and technology. That is this show. Yeah. It is. I mean, that's more or less every single person that we've talked to as combined creativity and technology in an unmistakable way. Yeah, for the most part, for sure. Yeah. Well, so Brandon writes, and you'll love this, Greg, I wanted to weigh in to say that Greg is wrong, unless you are focused on short-term success, and he's referring to our debate about master of your craft or Renaissance person. If you look at historical figures who've made a significant impact on society, they all tend to have one thing in common, a broad knowledge base. Yeah. And they also have one thing in common, which I've hopefully made clear now with the last two episodes, but hopefully I'll make it clear here. Because I agree. I agree with what was his name, Brandon? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I agree, Brandon, I agree with you completely, 100%, and that's actually my point, which is if you are born highly intelligent or highly talented, you can be a Renaissance person and do very well in society, and the examples that people keep giving me are examples of the world's most genius people. And so, of course, of course, they're going to be able to be Renaissance people. My point is, is if you are not born exceptionally talented or exceptionally intelligent, you are better likely to make a living mastering a particular skill. And that was the only point I was attempting to make there. And so I think I hope I'm making that point because people keep saying that they disagree with me, but then they give examples of exactly the examples that I'm expressing, so I don't know. Well, you know, so feel free to write in and harass Greg some more, because clearly he's just enjoying it, in case you guys can't tell. So let's do this. It actually makes a perfect setup to what we want to talk about today, which is this concept of the all-or-nothing internet. So I'm going to turn this over to you, Greg. I mean, what is the all-or-nothing internet? You can turn it over to me. Oh, fantastic. All-or-nothing internet. Well, I don't know. You and I have had many conversations since we first started talking, actually. I think since the first time you interviewed me, which is, you know, you always talk about the internet being somewhat like a developing country, you know, where there's kind of the haves and the have-nots. And I tend to agree with that. I tend to think that while the barrier entry has never been lowered to get yourself involved, I think the reality is that the spoils are going to select few. And if you look at Kickstarter campaigns, if you look at Twitter accounts that are really popular, if you look at web blogs that get the most views, et cetera, the SKU, you know, the bell curve, it's in the favor of a few. Yeah. It's definitely in the favor of a few. And so the question for me is, is it always going to be in the favor of a few? Is it going to become fewer and fewer at the top and then everyone else? Or is it going to start to spread and equal out amongst all of us? And that's a really important question because the internet and software is driving so much of our society. It'll be interesting to see if it'll remain the haves and the have-nots or if it'll even out someone. Yeah. You will see. The reason I always liken the internet to a developing country is, I mean, if you really, if we had a physical manifestation of the internet, you know, and I'll make reference to this hilarious Dave Chappelle skit where he said, you know, imagine if the internet was a real place you could actually go to. But, I mean, if we had a physical manifestation of the current internet with, you know, the social web, what you would see is it would be like million dollar neighborhoods next to abandoned like heaps of trash, just hundreds of thousands of abandoned heaps of trash and a select few like upscale neighborhoods because that's what the web looks like in a physical manifestation. I mean, and I know because I've built some of those heaps of trash, I have many of them in my past. I mean, I can't tell you how many abandoned have started, you know, literally they're like abandoned warehouses where, you know, there's a footprint here, a footprint there. And I think that that really honestly does describe the internet in its current state. And you're right. I think a select few people are reaping the rewards. I think that the income distribution is incredibly uneven, which we've talked about. I mean, we know the statistics. The question becomes, you know, is there a way out of this? I mean, have we set ourselves up? I mean, have we just modeled what's going on in the real world economically and just taking it and putting it on the internet? I mean, yes, it's the land of opportunity, but I don't know. I mean, I think that I wonder. And here's the thing with income inequality from my experiences of living in developing countries is that income inequality, as the rich get richer, the poor continually get poorer and it just makes things worse. So I don't know that there is a way out. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a huge, a huge conversation to unpack. But with a lot of implications there, but try to keep it somewhat, you know, in the short time frame that we have to have this conversation, I think that the things to consider here is the internet is no different than the non-internet because it all involves us humans and software and so in technology in what's happening to the world. So it doesn't really matter where you go. Those same things exist. And I don't think it actually is going to even out. I think it will only continue to grow where there's the haves and the have-nots. And that's because that's what talent does. And that's what creativity does, you know, it's always been that way across every industry. It's just that we've had more of an even distribution because we've needed more people to do things, but with the, you know, with the adoption of technologies as fast as we're adopting them now, we need less people to do things. So talent can get further ahead with less help, with less physical help, right? And we're seeing that, you know, even in our own business, where we just built a new platform for this show, right, and through the process of using technology to build this platform through software, it actually eliminated some of the physical work that had to be done that we were paying for. And that, to me, is only going to continue. It took a lifetime to find the person you want to marry. Finding the perfect engagement ring is a lot easier. At BlueKnile.com, you can find or design the ring you've always dreamed of with help from BlueKnile's jewelry experts who are on hand 24/7 to answer questions and the ease and convenience of shopping online. 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At Colorado.chefron.com My Dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Strikenly does that, you've got to wonder how many people have they displaced with the fact that you don't need to be a skilled designer to design and strykingly. You just have to have a bit of creativity. If you have some level of creativity, what happens is that you can get further faster. That's what you see on the web. We tout these examples, we tout these Kickstarter campaigns that totally blew us away. We tout somebody that opens a Twitter account, and then next thing you know, they've got a million followers or whatever. The reality is that those are rare instances, very, very rare instances. While they're great examples of what these platforms can do, they're exceptionally rare. We have to acknowledge the fact that they are definitely rare. I don't think that's going to change. I don't think there's going to be more examples. I think that the gap is just going to continue to widen over time. Yes. Then the question is, is there really anything we can do to either slow down that gap widening or at least do something because that's a somewhat disheartening thesis, if you think about it. It's depressing when you put it that way. That doesn't make me happy to hear it, but you've got to wonder, is there a way that we can at least, I mean, it's inevitable. We know that at this point, but is there a middle ground where things just even out of it? One of the things that I've learned from you is that part of creating wealth is that it's not just a matter of creating wealth, but the fact that when you create wealth, you create jobs, and you create opportunities, you put food on people's table, and that's something that really honestly never occurred to me until we started working together. Wow. I sound like a 1%er. No, but you and I talk about that a lot. I think one of the greatest accomplishments of my life is actually the number of jobs that I've created, the number of reasonably paying jobs that I've created, and it's something I take great pride in that I've been able to do that because I know the impact that has on other people's lives. When you and I started talking, I'm like, "Hey, look what you're doing. Look at the money that you're able to pay someone else so they can make a living." That's pretty cool. When I started to think about this from a different perspective, which is I don't know about the idea of can we do something about the idea that the internet is the haves and the have nods, but what I do wonder is does it matter as much? I think that we're entering a new era where it doesn't matter as much. Of course, you have to have your basic needs met, but I wonder if, for instance, can you have a podcast that gets, say, 1,000 downloads per episode, which in the podcasting world isn't much at all, so you're relatively unknown, almost virtually unknown, but you're doing something you enjoy, and you're talking to people that you like, and you're spending your hours and your time doing something you'd rather do than having a job that you hate doing, and so if you can actually function from that, like feed yourself, feed your family, that sort of thing, then to me, that's good enough. While in the world of podcasting, if we took the angle of the haves and the have nots, you are definitely a have not compared to, say, somebody like Mark Marin who gets 100,000 downloads per episode, yet in the grand scheme of life, you're on the have side, you're doing something you enjoy doing, you're doing something that you love doing, and to me, we also have to consider that angle, which is you might not end up being in the top echelon of the internet world, but are you doing something that fulfills you somehow anyway? Yeah, I know that's a very deep conversation, one that seems to keep coming up over and a lot of the chats I have with people, even it's really strange, but the people who we consider sort of heroes and role models and icons, some of the people we had on the show, they actually talk about that, it's really bizarre, but they don't talk about being in the upper echelon, but they talk about what you're talking about, the satisfaction that they get from doing it, and they say that if I didn't get that, I don't think I would be where I'm at, and that's interesting. It is, and yet we always have that caveat which you've mentioned before, which is, well that's easy for you to say, because you're making a great living doing that, which is easy for another person to say who isn't, it's easy for them to say, that's easy for you to say. So there is that dynamic in that angle, we cannot overlook the idea, the fundamental idea that people still need to fill some level of meaning and fulfillment, they still need to put food on their table, they still need to pay their bills and they still need to live. Those things cannot be ignored in this conversation, yet I wonder if those basic needs can be met and you're doing something that you love, even if you're relatively unknown or you never reach the upper echelon in your industry, is that good enough? And in America at least, we tend to think it's not, we tend to build a society on not good enough. Our entire society is built on that, every single thing that you are buying is built on the fundamental idea that you are not good enough. That's why you went out and bought that. And that's how marketers market to us and advertisers advertise to us. But I'm starting to think that we might be switching to a world in which more and more people are saying this is good enough, this is good enough for me. And I read a really interesting article, I think it was in Fortune maybe Forbes a few years ago and the journalist was interviewing a gentleman who had the, at the time, the highest viewed YouTube channel, YouTube channel that had the most subscriptions and it was tons, it was like 26 million subscriptions to his YouTube channel, right? And they kept asking him if he wanted to be on television. And he kept saying, no, why would I want to be on television? I get to do these videos, I get to directly interact with my audience every single day and know exactly what they want. And I get to spend only, no one else dictates what I do, I don't have to deal with producers or anyone else, I do them all on my own. And then I only get to spend three hours doing this and then I go surfing. That was his answer, right? And the journalist couldn't understand, he couldn't grapple with the idea and he kept asking the question in a different variety of ways to say, I don't get it, I don't understand why you don't want more, I don't understand why you don't want to be on television, I don't understand why you don't want your own show. And he kept saying, I don't understand why you don't understand, I'm doing everything I want to do in my life, this is good enough, I don't need more. And I think more and more we're entering that type of world. Yeah, no doubts, I mean, it's funny, I'm staying with a friend here who was telling me about micro apartments in San Francisco, he said, man, you should go get yourself one of those places, he's like, it has a fold up bed that turns into a desk that turns into a dining table and I'm thinking, you're actually right, I don't need much more than that and the truth is I don't want much more than that, if I got to do this and afford that and got to surf, I would have everything I needed. And I think that is really, I think that really, the question becomes then, you know, we get to this point, we're okay, find some people have, some people have knots, it just doesn't matter as much as we thought it does anymore, like people don't care, they're like, I'm not going to let that determine the quality of my life. Yeah, I think we're approaching that, I think we're at the early stages of that and we'll see where it goes, I also think that a lot of people say that, but they don't necessarily mean that or they still have a lot of envy or they still have a lot of reaching for the stars mentality, so I don't know, we'll see where it goes, but in further record, being a 1%er, I want a huge king size bed, I just want to fold up bed that turns into my dining table. I mean, you have slept on couches for the last three years, so I don't sleep for that. That is true, I don't think I'm ever going to sleep on a couch again, I don't even care if my wife is upset at me and kicks me out of the bedroom, you know, I'm not sleeping on a couch ever again for the rest of my pretty share. I think that makes a rather fitting end, so let's look at our iTunes reviews and give some quick shout outs. Yeah, look like before you do that, I love people think, you know, what's the address where they can write it? Unmistakablecreative.com/contact, so write it and tell us, you know, is this an all or nothing internet? Is the internet a developing country and, you know, how are we going to develop it better? Is it going to change? How can we change it? Should we change it? Yeah. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance, why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt, it can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent or go to statefarm.com. 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Never really was a salad guy, that's just not who I am. Even through the pickiness, NUM taught me that building better habits builds a healthier lifestyle. I'm not doing this to get to a number, I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at NUM.com. Real NUM users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical NUM user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B. But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. iTunes reviews got one from Quick Walker. I found this podcast through a friend of mine have been listening ever since. These are inspiring people in the world who do inspiring things and Mr. Rao does a great job of presenting their stories in a casual off-the-cuff manner. That's the first time I've been called Mr. Rao in an iTunes review. Mr. Rao seems very professional, I like it. I expect you to call me Mr. Rao in all our meetings from now on. I will do that, sir. So another one. Unthink. That's star 07. Srini introduced me to a new way of thinking that I always had in me. I used to go after projects from Money Alone. The extraordinary people he interviews have opened up my eyes to a whole new meaning of creativity and purpose. Love that. That's the kind of impact we love to have. Mr. Salim, exceptionally well done. The thing I value most is the sincerity, Srini and co-host Greg Hartle, aka the Jack Bauer of the Internet, share with their listeners. So I know you have something to say about that, so say it. I just think it's absolutely hilarious every time I hear this whole Jack Bauer of the Internet because I've never actually watched an episode of 24 and I'm never on the Internet. So I just think it's kind of funny how somehow I've become the Jack Bauer of the Internet. That's because we would call you if we needed to defuse a bomb or do just about anything else. Yeah, I also think that's kind of funny because, of course, I don't know how to defuse a bomb, but I do understand. People call me because I know who to call. So of course, I'm not going to do anything. I'm going to look at the bomb and go, I have no idea what that is or what to do about it, but then I'm going to make some calls. Yeah, you'll have 100 plus people that need to make things happen. You may not get into any fights, although we know you have been in a few. I don't imagine Jack Bauer-style gunfights, but in the final minute, we'll all be dependent on you. In the final, great. We'll all be saying, "Okay, Greg, what do we do next?" And, of course, you'll have to wake me up from my nap to tell me that. All right. One last iTunes review. Tokyo Frank. I'm not sure I have how I found this podcast originally, but I'm glad I did. Shreeni's a great interviewer. Thanks for that. Keep those iTunes reviews coming. They make a world of difference in our ability, not only to bring you guys, guests that are different than you'll hear on any other podcast. They help with our sponsors, which keep the show running and allow us to keep operating and bring you the best stuff we can. So right in, tell us what you think about this whole debate of if the Internet is moving towards turning into a developing country, or it already is one, unmistakablecreative.com/contact. And we will see you guys next week. Thanks for listening in on another candid conversation at the unmistakable creative. 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Here are the highlights from our chat

Why you have to blend technology and creativity to make something unmistakable
The HAVE’s and HAVE-NOT’s of the internet
Why the internet is about humans and software working together
How the income disparity will continue to grow across the internet
Why talent gets further ahead with less physical help
How tools are making it possible to get further faster
The rare instances of MASSIVE success on social platforms
How creating wealth leads to the creation of jobs for other people
The idea that maybe all we need to is have our basic needs met
Moving away from a society where everything is not good enough
Why a Youtube super star has no desire to be on television

Resources and People Mentioned

If the Internet Real was a Real Place – Dave Chapelle

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