The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

The Importance of Developing Your Own Belief System with Susan Hyatt

Susan Hyatt's career has included stints as a successful real estate agent, working in marketing/PR and as a successful life coach. She's on a mission to make personal development fun. He work has been featured in Oprah's O magazine, and she's a published author and speaker. In this episode of The Unmistakable Creative, Susan Hyatt talks about the importance of developing your own belief systems.

A mission to make personal development fun
Why you can be really good at something you hate
Lessons learned from the world of real estate
The key questions that you need to answer
Why finding a mission is an organic process
The messy nature of the creative process
Escaping the stigma associated with failure
The power of engaging in things your unfamiliar with
Cross pollination of ideas from multiple fields
Life coaching and the mimicry epidemic at work
The danger of copying other people's belief systems
Why messages and inspiration around you all day
Some powerful lessons on balancing work and life
Learning to create and identify multiple streams of income
Building a speaking platform around your personal brand
Bridging the gap between work you hate and work you love

People and Resources Mentioned

Martha Beck

Finding Your Own North Star

John Stewart and Dmitri Martin discuss lifecoaching

Susan Hyatt is a master certified life coach, published author, luck accelerator +multi-passionate mentor for your body, business and your life. You can follow her on twitter @susanhyatt.com

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Broadcast on:: 15 Jan 2014
Audio Format:: other

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In this episode of the Unmistakable Creative, Susan Hyatt talks to me all about her mission to make personal development fun and the importance of developing your own belief system. Susan, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Hey, I am so glad I passed the Melissa test and I'm thrilled to be here. I'm a fan of your-- I'm going to ask you the first question I need you to ask everybody, which is can you tell us a bit about yourself, your story, your background and how that has brought you to doing the work that you're doing today? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I am a master life coach and an author and I basically am committed. 2014 is kind of my year to expand the sassiest place to find life change and personal development. So my mission is really to make personal development fun and the way that I got into this work, I've been doing this about seven years and prior to that I worked in marketing and public relations and then I was actually stay-at-home mom for a couple of years. I have two kids that are 15 and 13. My 15-year-old Ryan, I'm going to have to start paying him royalties because he gives me so much material. I'm raising Ferris Bueller's basically how this is working out for me. But I stayed at home for a few years and then I went into the workforce as a residential real estate agent and I look back on that now and I'm so grateful for my time as a real estate agent because it taught me a number of things about business. First of all, I was very successful at it and hated it. So I am living proof that you can be really, really good at something but you might not have any business doing it. And while I was in real estate, I became a self-help addict because I was trying to figure out why am I so unhappy when I have everything that I thought I really wanted. I had a thriving career, I had a good marriage, I had these two beautiful kids and if you were looking from the outside in you would have suspected that everything was just peachy. But what was happening was that I was really dying on the vine and had golden handcuffs so to speak. So I went on this quest to figure out what the hell I would do about this and was led to the work of Dr. Martha Beck who ultimately ended up training me as a life coach. And her book, I don't know if you've read it. Have you read Finding Your Own North Star? Fantastic. Well, let me tell you, I'm convinced this is the best self-help book ever written, completely changed my life. But at any rate, I decided because I made such positive changes in my life based on her work, I became trained as a coach and never looked back. And so what real estate taught me about business, I brought into building my coaching practice and it has been an interesting journey as an entrepreneur first working for myself, selling houses and now working for myself, helping people change their lives. So that's how I got here. Cool. All right. Well, that gives us a ton of stuff to work with. But I want to go back to the very beginning of something you said, you nailed it down to having this mission of making personal development fun. And I think that this sense of mission or purpose, often what I found as one of the common threads between people who are really, really successful or just happy with what they're doing is they have a sense of clarity around mission and purpose. But I don't think you can just sit down one day and say, okay, this is my purpose and this is my mission. It's like sort of an evolutionary and discovery process and I'm curious, you know, as you kind of guide people through that, I mean, how do you figure that out? Oh, how do I figure out my mission and how do other people do it? Well, I think you're right. It's not, I think a lot of people come into personal development and they, you know, want things to happen very quickly and there's certainly an amount of experience that has to happen organically for people to figure it out. And so for me, when I'm working with clients to help them figure out, you know, what's your mission? Oftentimes when I ask people, you know, what is it that makes you happy? What lights you up? What are you on fire about? I get this deer in the headlights look and they're like, what do you mean? You know, they might be really good at getting stuff done. They might be making a lot of money, but they have no idea really what likes their fire. And so I think the first step in figuring out what your mission is, is figuring out who you are and figuring out what it is that really ignites you in some way. And so part of that process is starting to pay attention to, you know, what irritates the crop out of you, what enrages you, what gets you so excited that you can't stop talking about it and for probably 90% of the people I work with, they can't really answer those questions yet. I think that, you know, it's funny, you bring up answering those questions. In my mind, half of answering those questions is just trying a bunch of different things. It's amazing. Think about how little people want to, people don't want things to be imperfect or messy, but I feel like this process is incredibly messy. It's like, you know, finger paint to all of the canvas with, you know, no sense of what you're creating. And eventually you kind of make order out of anarchy. And I love that you find what enrages you because even, you know, my business partner, Greg Hartle, he'll often say he's like, find something that pisses you off and fix it. And that's often a great starting point. Yeah. And I love what you said about the messy because, you know, I am all about embracing the messy. I told you before we started the recording, I'm originally from Savannah, Georgia. And I don't know. Have you spent much time in the south? A little bit. A little bit. Okay. Do you know when I say, have you seen moss? Do you know what I'm talking about? I have no idea. Okay. So down in the south, there's this beautiful, it's actually a plant that grows on trees called moss and it's gray and it's drapey and it hangs off the trees and it's very romantic and beautiful. And a lot of times when tourists come to town, you'll see them with hefty bags trying to bag up this moss and take it home. But what's funny about the moss is that it's actually infested with red bugs, like these tiny little triggers that if you get it on your skin, you're going to itch for days. And so when I was growing up in Savannah and would be downtown and see people bagging that stuff up, I would always stop them and say, whoa, whoa, you don't want to take that home. It's full of bugs. And so when I talk about the messy of life, I talk about the mossy and the glossy. So here you have this beautiful oak tree with this seemingly beautiful moss, but there's something underneath that. And I think with personal development, the most fun is when I can help people own both. We're never going to have a perfect life. So why strive for that? But strive to be somebody who's willing to take risks, who's willing to swim around in the messiness of it and own those parts of yourself. So yeah, the mess is where it's at. That's where the money is. Yeah. You know, it's interesting you say that, like I can't, I think it was somebody, Meg Wharton maybe told me, she's like, you know, your mess can become your message as long as it's in service of other people. And you know, I mean, a lot of that is sharing a journey of growth. And I think that that's what I've seen with so many wildly successful people that they often just share the journey of their own growth. But you know, I think that ego is an interesting thing when it comes to this as well, because when we're in school and as we're kind of taught, or our education system, like we don't really, we're not taught to embrace the mess. We're taught to be perfect. We're taught not to make mistakes. And we're punished for our mistakes or things that don't go right. And you know, there's such a negative connotation to failure. And I guess, you know, sort of where I would go with that question wise is how do you escape that stigma that's associated with failure? Oh, gosh, that's such a good question because you're right. I mean, it took me a long time and a lot of work to be willing to risk the ego, which by the way, I think being willing to risk your ego is the number one indicator of success in business because what I have found is over the years, the more I tried to appear like I had everything together, it was so limiting to me. And so I typically have a little system for myself that I, when I notice that I am scared to reveal something, then I know I have to out myself. And I know I have to write about it. And so what I do is I just pay attention to things that either I'm completely sucking at that maybe I wouldn't want people to know or negative thoughts I'm having or judgments I'm making. And I figure out how to get over it and create a tool to help others to get over it. And so one of the things that I, one of the practices that I actually have now is I'm constantly looking to sign up for things or engage in things like when you were talking about people need to just try a bunch of different stuff. I make that a big practice of my life, especially if I'm afraid I'm going to be bad at it because I spent so much time trying to be good at everything. And so one of the things that I'm engaging in regularly right now is CrossFit, which I don't know if you know anything about CrossFit, but it's not for the fate of heart. And I'm not necessarily the typical candidate for CrossFit, but I'm loving it and I'm sucking at it and I'm blogging about it pretty regularly. Well, you know, I love this because it kind of just makes me think of, you know, just the threads in Pam Slim's recent work, the whole idea of a body of work. And I think that we are so sort of like, you know, we've talked endlessly about, you know, find your niche and do your one thing. And in my mind, that becomes very limiting and kind of pigeonholzes and I finally kind of said, you know, I said the other day, I said, you know, you really, Danny Shapiro says, like, hate the word platform. And I'm realizing that was like music to my ears and I was like, it's true. It's not a platform. It's a canvas and we're all artists and we can create whatever we want on that canvas. And I think we have to be willing to do that in order to really find a lot of these things. Like, to me, it's like, that's how you find the thread that ties everything together. It's like, I'm not going to forever be defined as the interview guy. Like, I don't want this one thing to be my identity. Right. I'm with you. I mean, I'm definitely, I understand that the more focused we are and the more we can become known for something, that's great marketing. However, I think it's much more interesting what you just said that we're constantly allowing ourselves to evolve and try different things and for me and for the work I do with my clients, for sure, there's so much that we don't know yet. And that's what's so exciting and we're never going to know it unless we risk our egos and try something else. So I'm with you. Yeah. I mean, even if you, one of the, you know, I've been listening to this show called off-camera, which is this guy, Sam, Jonesy, interviews, like all these celebrities like Judd Apatow, Amy Mann, like really interesting people. And one of the threads I keep coming back to is that nobody gets defined by one art form. Like they have their one thing that they're known for, but they're constantly exploring other art forms. I mean, even Robert Downey, Jr., one of my favorite quotes from his interview was that he said, you know, as an artist, anything you take an interest in will benefit you. Mm. Mm-hmm. I love him. And yes, that's a great quote and it's so true because, I mean, who would have thought, I'm constantly giggling about the stuff that I'm bringing into my work that's making it so much more interesting. But I'm like, who would have thought that CrossFit would teach me so much about business? And you know, who would have thought that I'd be, you know, interested in writing a book about how sex might improve your bottom line? You know, it just, I think we limit ourselves too much when we take popular business advice too stringently. Oh, yeah. Well, you just hit one of my hot buttons. We could talk about that for like two hours. Good. Okay. So, you know, interestingly enough, I mean, this actually makes a perfect transition to what I want to talk about next. I mean, you're a certified life coach and, you know, I recently wrote this lengthy update called the mimicry epidemic on Facebook. And one of the things I often see with life coaches, and my guess is you probably see this with your clients, that they come to you and what you suddenly find is they want to become you. Yeah. And I am really curious how we deal with this because, like, I think that that's what ends up giving life coaches the sort of connotation that you may have seen the John Stewart and Dimitri Martin sketch, they did about it. Well, there is. Yeah. Exactly. One of the things that what I am really kind of curious about is how you get people to break out of that. The thing is people will hire somebody and then they, you know, in their mind, their ambition becomes I want to become that person. And I, you know, we made a very distinctive choice when we sat down to say what products and services are we going to create? And we said, you know what, we're never going to create anything that allows people to replicate what we do because that would just piss away their talents because we're not interested in turning them into replicas of us. And I'm wondering how you as somebody who is, you know, in a field that is notorious for people who want to become you, like deal with that. Yeah. You know, this is, this is something that I've had to deal with quite a bit over the years and especially lately. And you know, the copycattery thing, that's what I call it, is rampant. You're right. And I think what happens is that people discount their own creative juice. So they, sometimes they're doing it intentionally and sometimes they're not doing it intentionally. But, but what's happening is is that they're not tuning into their own ideas and their own brilliance and, and they see something else, maybe that you're doing or some else is doing. And they try to just pick up that package and I'm using package and quotes and plop that down on their website, expecting the same kind of results. And of course, it never works that way because the energy that you have that goes into your show and the brilliance that you have can never be replicated. They might try to, but it's some weird rendition of it. I actually had a situation probably about three, four years ago where a coach in the Chicago area actually lifted my entire website and just changed the headshot to hers and the business name to hers, but every single thing else, including like the about me stuff was mine. And, and that was an extreme case where, you know, she immediately took it down once I notified her that she needed to take it down, but the way that when I'm working with coaches, the thing that I try to help them do is I call it flying your own freak flag. So the thing that clients are going to be attracted to is that mossy and glossy balance that I mentioned earlier, and that's very unique to the coach. So, you know, if you're looking at, say, Pam Slim, and you're going to try to replicate and escape from cubicle nation kind of business, you better make darn sure that you're infusing that with your own experience and your own stuff. And so there's a lot of, again, paying attention to all those things like, what are your hobbies? Let's talk about your voice. Let's talk about your perspective and your philosophy on this. And I think a lot of that is jumped over with life coaches. They don't ever stop to consider what their philosophy might be. They just take whoever they trained with and sort of mimic that belief system, where I think it's much more interesting when a coach takes it and builds on it and says, "Okay, well, then here's my philosophy on all this." Yeah, I mean, I love this and this is, you know, again, one of my sort of hot buttons right now because, I mean, the sheer volume of very distinctive talent within our community blows my mind. And I'm like, I just, I would never want to see that wasted on somebody trying to replicate what we do or even replicate what people on our show do. I'm like, you know, like, I guess the way I would sum it up is that, you know, all the advice you get here is ingredients and the recipe is yours. Mm-hmm. Yes. Perfect. Brilliant. And that's kind of how I look at training. I have a training for coaches. It's a business training called clear coaches. And I stress all of this stuff a lot and I like the way that you just wrap that up. Like this is just all ingredients and you cook up your own recipe, like your blend, as a coach, your blend has to be unique to your own life story, your own experience, your own perspective and all of that is so valuable to the world. So much more valuable than trying to slickly package up something that you think will sell fast. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. We'll get into kind of packaging product services and all that stuff a little later bit. So let's shift gears a little bit and let's start talking about some of the earlier parts of your career. You mentioned that you'd work in marketing and PR and I'd loved to dig into that and talk about kind of how that's influenced and shaped what you do today. And of course, I mean, marketing and PR has evolved so much in the last three to four years. I mean, the things that we started off talking about Melissa Casera, who really to me is just a PR mainstream media whiz. And you know, I mean, it's like the entire thing, you know, I was sitting with a marketing professor from business school last night and when we were talking about the fact that their entire curriculum is outdated and they can't figure out how to get students to thrive in this world. So I'm really curious, you know, what kind of lessons from the past that are sort of timeless and still relevant and kind of how it's all evolved? Yeah, I often joke when I teach marketing and business classes for coaches that, you know, my marketing and PR background, my first internship in college, I actually was a political science major and intended to go on to law school. And in my senior year, I interned in DC for a public relations firm that was female owned and had all government clients. And I decided I really liked the creative side much more than I expected and I decided to stick with that. And so they hired me full time right out of college and what was interesting, what my joke is, is that almost, almost everything I learned does not apply. You know, it's coaches will make the assumption, well, oh, you have a marketing and PR background. So therefore, that's why you're successful and I can never, I can never be successful because I don't have that background and that's certainly not true. But some of the timeless lessons are just understanding how to take information and position it in a way that's easily digestible for people. So being able to, you know, things like writing press releases and all that kind of stuff doesn't, doesn't really happen in my daily life anymore. But what I did learn was to understand having a consistent brand and what that looks like and how to talk about things in a way that makes sense. All right. So let's dig deeper into this. This whole idea of a consistent brand and talking about things in a way that makes sense. I mean, I think people will hear you say that this idea of a consistent brand is something that's come up quite a bit over the last few months on the show and, maybe it's partially because we've just been going through our own rebranding. But I mean, how do you define a consistent brand and then, of course, how do you articulate that in the way you come across when you're communicating with people? Yeah. So to me, a consistent brand is more about, I'm more concerned, and I don't even want to use the word concerned, but I'm more impressed with branding when it helps me feel a certain way where I can almost taste the flavor of that person's energy, so to speak. So, let's say if you're looking at their website, the photography, the language that they're using, the colors that they're using, the look tone and feel of it, matches. And I don't know if you've ever visited, for example, I'm sure you have, websites where everything aesthetically looked good, it was very professionally done, but it just felt like there was no there there. Like where are they? It doesn't, it's all very beautifully designed, but it didn't necessarily match the personality of that company or that person. And so when I'm talking about consistent branding, I'm more interested in, does it match? Does it match what they say they want to help you do? Does it match their personality? Can I get a feel for what's happening here? And can I clearly understand what it is they do and how I can engage with them? Yeah, I love that. And I love that you talked about this idea of how it makes you feel. And I remember as we were going through the design process for the Unmistakable Creative website, the first batch, the first version, I was showing it and I was like, you can't have a website called the Unmistakable Creative and use stock photography, that's like just an oxymoron. I was like, that was the first piece of feedback I gave when I got the first version. And I was like, okay, you know what, let's, let's go to our friend, Mars Dorian. And we went to him and the first versions of sketches that came back, we sat down, we talked with him and your exact comment was what we told him. We said, dude, every time you, like any time he sends us something, I'm like, this is delightful. It overwhelms me with joy. I'm like, you just dazzle me every single time. And this time you didn't do it. And I said, all right, I'm like, so basically go back to the drawing board and come back and dazzle me. I was like, I realized those are horribly vague instructions and you should kill me for saying that. That, I mean, that to me was, and he said, he's like, I get it. He's like, you guys, we told him, we're like, that logo has to scream Unmistakable and it has to make people feel something when they come to the site. And that's, that's, that's not an easy thing to accomplish. But I think that if you stick to your guns on that, it's, it's, it's really, really mind-blowing what that does. People are getting clarity on how you want people to feel in your world to steal Nisha Movely's words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really to me what it's all about. You know, I'm less concerned with all the bells and whistles and I'm much more concerned with, does it evoke emotion? And can I really, do I feel like people want to feel? And so can they feel you? And when people hand off projects, like if you had just handed that off and taken the first rendition of it with the stock photography, stock photography, and people went to that site, they would have been like, they wouldn't have been able to put their finger on what was missing, but your input was missing. Your soul was missing from that and, and now it won't be. And that, I think that is where I'm concerned with branding much more so than, did you use the same logo every single time and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. I mean, I really, the way I think of it is really as, as either, you know, what Justine Musk calls a soul print or, you know, what I basically have boiled down to, to being called an artistic signature where you kind of, you can look at it and you're like, okay, that, that has Shrinney written all over it or that has Susan written all over it. Mm-hmm. Ooh, I like that. I'm going to quote you in my class today, artistic signature. Well, you should quote Justine Musk because she, that was inspired by her, but yeah, so, and she calls it a soul print and we call it an artistic signature because we're like, soul print sounds vague, people won't understand that on our sales page. Yeah. So, which actually makes a perfect transition to my next question. And you had talked about, you know, endless supply of material in your son, you know, having to charge your son royalties because you're raising a little Ferris Bueller, which I love, one of my favorite movies from the 80s and I tried to convince numerous friends in college that we needed a day like that in San Francisco and none of them ever took me up on it. So, I think that was, that was their loss, but that actually, you know, I think that the question that comes from that for me, you know, since we're talking about artistic signature and all this creative part is looking at our own lives for material and how we sort of survey our lives for this kind of material and bring it in and then really translate it into our content, our messaging, our branding and our mission. Right. I think it's so important and I think that people are really hungry for connection and the fastest way for two human beings to connect is to tell a real story. And so, something that I'm very passionate about is sharing what's happening in my real life. So, as a parent, there's so much material happening in my own life with my kids and my husband and my dogs. And if we're paying attention and we're open to it, it's not just about sharing any kind of story, it's looking at the material that's happening around you all day long and how can you use that to help other people. And so, there's just, I think, back to the copycat questioning earlier, I think if business owners can really take the time to do that and keep a little notebook and jock down just a few words about, you know, oh, the story about getting my tires rotated or oh, the story about the beagle getting loose or whatever, if they can pay attention and take stock in what's happening around them in their own lives, there's an endless supply of inspiration and motivation for others. Yeah, I actually, I think my morning update today summed it up. The way I summed it, I said, you know what, think of it this way, you know, your life experiences, your paintbrush and the pages, your canvas. Mm, you're so articulate, I'd love to be quoting you all day. Yes, that's brilliant. I think that just to me, that's what, you know, when somebody says, what do I write about, I said, you know, you have a life, right? Like, it's funny, and I say, often I don't know where I'm going to start, but I just look at it and say, you know what, I had yesterday, I experienced yesterday, something happened yesterday that might have some inspiration or lessons in it. Yeah, and you know, I really feel like hundreds of times a day, there are messages coming to us through our lives, and if we're just open to it some of the time, I just feel overwhelmed by the amount of inspiration to the point that I have just notebooks full of ideas, and I will come back to them and whatever is supposed to live off the page will, but it's, it's just all about paying attention and giving credit to your life. I think a lot of time, people will look at authors that they respect or bloggers and say, oh, well, my, whatever, my life isn't as sensational or as newsworthy as Martha Backs, for example. And you know, that's just not true. Today's stories can help change everything for people. You should celebrate yourself every day, but some days you should celebrate with jewelry. 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When it comes to weight loss, no two people are the same. That's why Nume builds personalized plans based on your unique psychology and biology. Take Brittany, after years of unsustainable diets, Nume helped her lose 20 pounds and keep it off. I was definitely in a yo-yo cycle for years of just losing weight, gaining weight and it was exhausting. And Stephanie, she's a former D1 athlete who knew she couldn't out train her diet and she lost 38 pounds. My relationship to food before Nume was never consistent. And Evan, he can't stand salads, but he still lost 50 pounds with Nume. I never really was a salad guy, that's just not who I am. Even through the pickiness, Nume taught me that building better habits builds a healthier lifestyle. I'm not doing this to get to a number, I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at Nume.com. Real Nume users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical Nume user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. Hey there, it's Greenie and Hemo, and we are back and better than ever. Got your answers is for sale. And if you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, Hemo, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky Hemo trivia questions. All that and a whole lot more, it's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. Forging ahead together drives Colorado's pioneering spirit. At Chevron, we donate funding and volunteer thousands of hours in support of the community's We Call Home. We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. That's Energy in Progress. Visit Colorado.chefron.com Hey, it's Sharon and here's where it gets interesting. Raise your hand if you want salon perfect nails for just $2 a manicure. Yeah, me too. With the Alvin June Manny system, you can say goodbye to expensive services that take hours and hours and love your nails more than ever. I would know I've been doing it for years. Get 20% off your first Manny system with code perfectmani20@alvinjoon.com/perfectmani20. That's perfectmani20@alvinjoon.com/perfectmani20. Yeah, yeah, I think we, you know, social media creates this sort of sense of envy, right? Like everybody's life looks sensational online. Right. Well, speaking of which, I think that let's do this. I want to start talking a little bit about real estate and then I want to start getting into some tactical stuff. So, you know, one of the things, you know, we're talking about life-looking sensational. You said, you know, from the outside, your life looks so perfect and you were successful but you realized you hated doing what you were doing. And I think that that takes, that's sort of like a real wake-up call and what I say is people are sleepwalking through life. How do you find, like, how do you become aware that maybe you're at that point? Like, how do you recognize that, "Hey, I'm living a life that I don't want to be living?" Well, I mean, for me, that when I would open my eyes in the morning, I would hit the snooze button 10 times. I didn't want to get out of bed. And so, a lot of folks, it's like, you know, reluctance to get your day started, feeling like you're constantly just white knuckling it or powering through the day. And then when you power through the day, having absolutely no interest or desire in doing anything else but putting on your pajamas and sitting in front of Netflix. I mean, to me, that those were all big red flags for me in my life, that I was kind of sleepwalking through it. So for clients, I mean, when they can't say what they do for fun, when they can't say what they're interested in, if they're not excited or passionate about the work that they're doing, then that's a problem. And also, you know, are they exhausted? Are they overeating? Are they overspending? There's so many behaviors that happen when people are unhappy with what's going on in their lives. Yeah, I think those are all just, I think part of it is just, you know, asking yourself the questions of whether, you know, you're really are miserable, like it's like, I think the other thing you kind of have to do is play out, what does the future of this life look like? Like, where does this, if I keep doing what I'm doing, what's it going to look like five years from now? Exactly, because what's interesting about this is that you're right, it compounds. So it's not like, if I sit on this problem right now, it's going to be the same in ten years, or five years, or ten days, it's going to be that much worse. It multiplies and gets, you know, more and more devastating to the soul. So I often ask clients the same thing, like if you do nothing about this, how are things going to be for you in 90 days, a year, five years, what do you imagine your life's going to be like? And when people slow down enough to really think about the true answer to that question, it can help motivate them to actually take those risks and do something about it. And I think that the opposite kind of plays out as well on the positive side, right? Like you can kind of see that the upside of it too, it's kind of like when you start making changes, yeah, I mean, one year, you know, you may not see anything in the first 60, 90, maybe even the first year, like, you know, they talk about the ten year overnight success. And I think that was one of the sort of profound realizations I had in my life when things just sort of came crumbling down. I said, you know what, if I am going to have a very different life in five years, I'm going to have to make drastically different decisions than the ones I've made in the past ten. Yeah. I mean, I remember sort of the tipping point for me, it was actually Easter, 2006. And I was at the height of my real estate career, and my mom was coming to visit. And she said, my only request is that while I'm visiting this time is that you don't work. And I'm like, okay, mom, I promise. I'm going to have my assistant do everything, I promise, promise, promise, I will not work. And what ended up happening was that because it was a holiday weekend, some out of town clients of mine decided to come into town without telling me, they got to town, sent me a message and said, hey, we're here and we want to put an offer in on that house we looked at two weeks ago. And this wasn't just any house, it was the biggest sale of my real estate career. And so I remember sitting at my desk and crying because I had promised my momma that I wouldn't work and I didn't want to work, but I felt obligated to assist my client. And I also, to be quite honest, wanted that paycheck. And so I did. I went to work on Easter weekend and after it was all said and done, I was in the kitchen with my mom and she said, you know, this just isn't you, like you've really just worn yourself out. And you know, as she's being as loving as she could, but also giving me a swift kick in the ass and saying, hey, you know, this life you're living doesn't seem to be helping you. And she said, I'll tell you what, I will keep the kids all day tomorrow and you just do whatever you want to do. And I remember that moment was what changed everything for me because I had no idea what I would go do with myself all day if I wasn't working. I had no hobbies other than shopping or eating. And that very day, I said, you know what, I can't keep living like this where all I'm doing is working. And if I do have some free time, I'm not even sure what I want to do, which was crazy town. So I'm with you. Perfect. Well, I think that that makes a perfect setup. So let's shift gears a little bit and let's start getting into it to some of the more tactical things. I mean, how do you tie all of this together into to running, you know, your business? I mean, for the programs you offer, the services, I mean, I, you know, I know one of the things that also caught my attention was when Melissa said that, you know, you work with, you know, Oprah magazine and you do all that other stuff. So like, how did you take all these things and tie them together into creating like a real revenue generating business? Well, it's been, it's been a fun journey. And I really think that building a business is the best personal development anyone can do because you really it takes you through everything of every possible ego issue you could have in building a business. I'm sure you've experienced this yourself. So what I started to do early on in my career was I was super interested and passionate about helping other working moms create some kind of at the time I was using the term life balance, which I hate now. I call it more of a blend now, but to basically create a life they love. And what I started to do was to create packages and programs that that I would have loved to have had. And I started out doing things very old school, you know, I thought that my practice would be kind of like a therapist practice where I would just sit knee to knee with people and meet with them all day long. That was really all the only business model I was aware of at the time. And so that's what I did at first. And then I started to understand or I had this craving to reach large groups of people. So I started speaking. And then once I started speaking, I started getting exposed to online marketing. And I started putting together telecourses and retreats. And basically, I think learning and understanding how to create multiple streams of income in a coaching practice was very key for me to take things to the next level. So I've always been pretty dedicated with being honest about my personal story and sharing with people my hell and back stories, because I have a couple of them. One of them is being a burnt out realtor, but there are others. And packaging those into digestible bites for people. That has been very successful for me. So as my business has evolved from being very sort of the knee to knee life coach therapist business model and moving more online, I've tried to also, you know, my mission now is about SaaS and fun with personal development. I started to notice that I started to look around the personal development industry and feel that things were just a little too serious or a little too heavy and that you can deal with the heaviest things in life and still have a whole hell of a lot of fun with it. So I started putting together digital programs, which include video and downloads and those kinds of things to reach more people. And so now my business is comprised of some very limited one on one stuff, in person group things, online digital programs and of course writing. Discover Hydro, the best kept secret in fitness. Hydro is the state of the art at home rower that engages 86% of your muscles, delivering the ultimate full body workout in just 20 minutes. From advanced to beginner, Hydro has over 500 classes shot worldwide and taught by Olympians and world class athletes. For a 30 day risk free trial, go to hydro.com and use code ROW450 to save $450 on a hydro pro rower. That's H-Y-D-R-O-W.com code ROW450. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless, have it to get 30, 30, get 30, get 30, get 20, 20, 20, get 20, get 20, get 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabyte CD tail. Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important, life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt. It can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. 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With the Alvin June Manny system, you can say goodbye to expensive services that take hours and hours and love your nails more than ever. I would know I've been doing it for years. Get 20% off your first Manny system with code perfect manny20@alvinjoon.com/perfectmanny20. That's perfectmanny20@alvinjoon.com/perfectmanny20. Awesome. That actually opens up a lot of other questions. You've talked about multiple streams of income, doing packages, programs that all kind of are in line with sort of a central ethos. I think we've talked about the central ethos idea quite a bit throughout our conversation. What I'm really curious about is how somebody can say, "Okay, I'm learning this firsthand after years." The multiple streams of income thing makes all the sense of the world to me because it's not like one thing. Yeah, we have sponsors for our show and I realize depending solely on that is just dangerous. What I'm curious about is as people are looking at their business, their life, how can they audit what they've built where these multiple streams of income might lie? Oh, great question. Here's something that I did in the beginning that was not great. It was that, well, you could say it was great or not great. It depends on how you look at it. But I wasn't super clear of exactly who my people were and what my true mission was. I was just throwing things against the wall. I was trying everything, which is good. But my message was disjointed and there were way too many ways people could decide to work with me. You know what happens there? If there are too many choices, then people kind of click away or they are confused about, "Well, I don't even know what this girl's about." I think when people are looking at their lives and they're looking at different streams of income, the number one thing, I think, is to try to narrow it down as much as possible about who is the most delicious customer to you? Who is the most delicious person that you would love to help? Because there are only so many hours in the day. And then think about, okay, of the things, the hell and backs that you've had and all the different things that interest and excite you the most. What problem do you want to help that person with? And so that really narrowed things down a lot for me because I get excited about lots of things. But just because I'm excited about it doesn't mean I necessarily need to be doing it and that that needs to be my focus. And so number one, I think focus on what excites you and gets you to the point that you can't not talk about it versus what you think will be a revenue creator. I love that. It's so funny because I was thinking just listening to the interview we did with Kate Northrup and she said, "What's the thing you can't possibly hold back anymore?" Ooh, I like the way that's phrased, yeah. And it's interesting because it's so counterintuitive. We were talking about sort of mimicry earlier and looking at our heroes and role models and saying, "Okay, well, I'm going to do what they've done." And yet, I know that people have these things inside of them. And I can tell you from my own personal experience when we sort of unleash them, they're risky. Then they definitely might not work, but that's what makes them so much fun. And when they do, you're kind of like, "Oh, my God, I love that you brought up what you're excited about and our friend, Melissa Leon, she said something that really just resonated with me. I was like, "That's it. Those are the filters." She said, "You know what?" She said, "When they..." Because she and her husband AJ do a bunch of stuff. They have their design agency, but they do all these humanitarian projects. They have a fashion line. They do all this stuff that you're kind of like, "Okay, that just seems really weird." But she said, "They're two sort of filters for how they do anything is, will we have fun doing this and do we care about it?" And revenue comes after that, amazingly enough. I love it. Yes, yes, yes. Andy, that is one of the most counterintuitive things, I think, for people to get their heads around, right? Danielle and I have, Danielle and I've had this conversation. You guys will have heard this. I remember very distinctly, she always says, "Your art can never be about the money." And in this last conversation, I said, "Well, Danielle, that's easy for you to say." But, Susan, you coach people through dealing with a lot of baggage around stuff like this. What I'm curious about is how do you mentally make the shift? It's one thing for you and I to sit here and to say it. It's another entirely for people to actually believe it and embrace it. Yeah, and you know what? I think the fastest way for people to believe it if they can't have that shift in their mind because I definitely tell them, "Listen, I've done it both ways." And the more fun I have, which is so trippy for this former over-achiever girl, but the more fun I have, the more I play, the more money I make. And that doesn't mean, though, that I'm sitting under a palm tree all the time. It means that my work itself is so fun that it feels like play, but I encourage them to try it both ways. I've said to coaches, "Listen, okay, go start marketing this package that you think is going to be so profitable but makes you sort of go, "Oh." And then let's just experiment and let's try to trot something out here that you're on fire about that you're not sure. And what's interesting is when I have coaches experiment in that way, they may have some lukewarm success on, you know, part of, well, let me just say that part of one of the buckets for my work is weight loss, but it's weight loss, not like you're thinking. It's anti-diet, so it's all about body love. And weight loss is a very profitable niche. There's no question about it. And so a lot of times what happens is coaches will say, "Well, you do really well with weight loss as a niche, so I'm going to put together a weight loss program." But that's not their passion, you know? And so it's like, "Okay, go try that out." I think what you're going to find is the way that you energetically promote that work is going to show you that the revenue is going to feel different and your bottom line is going to be different than if it were this other thing over here that you're about to wet your pants over. I mean, it just can't help but breathe more energy and light into something that you can't stop talking about, mm-hmm. Yeah, I can tell you that. I mean, as agonizing as putting together our first in-person event has been, which I jokingly constantly say is like, start planning a wedding and starting a religion at the same time. Oh my gosh. I can tell you, like, I wake up every day excited. I mean, literally I was walking up and down the Santa Monica promenade yesterday looking at packaging and stores for our welcome kids to say, "Okay, what can we borrow from this? What can we steal from this? Like, how can I use these ideas to create an experience that's absolutely delightful?" And that part to me is actually a lot of fun, even though it's painful at times, but I'm like, like, I can't stop thinking or talking about it. Like, it's all, you know, I wake up every day and I'm like, how do I make this so unforgettable for people that they will never, you know, like, one of my friends said, "So you're not going to do any upselling." We're like, "No." I'm like, I want to create an experience like an Apple product so that people never question whether they should buy anything from us ever again. Nice! I love it! Yes, yes, yes. That's what I'm talking about. And, and you know what? For me, I mean, I have a big project I'm working on right now called Life is Delicious TV. And, and it's the same kind of thing. Like, it, it's all, I'm consumed with it. I don't even know for sure, like, what's going to happen with it, but I'm having a hell of a lot of fun. And I'm a betting woman. And I can tell you that the heart and soul that's going into it is probably going to pan out for me. And even if it doesn't, I'm having an amazing time, which is way better than focusing on some boring sales page that doing business the way everybody else is doing it. So, amen, I'm excited about your event. No doubt. Well, let's do this. So one other question around that since you're talking about a TV related project, let's talk about speaking briefly. Mainly because I know there are a lot of people in our audience who have aspirations to speak. I mean, I myself am one of them. I mean, I've gotten opportunities. I mean, how do you build an, you know, how do you build a speaking platform into everything you're doing? And, and how do other people do it? Well, you know, I have approached it probably very differently than a lot of the folks that are who are very strategic about it, I guess. I like to speak and, and have had some training from Gail Larson who wrote transformational speaking. She's amazing. And Gail's work is all about very in line with how you and I are talking about things, which is just sharing authentically your life story. And so for me, when I was building my business in the very beginning, my first year in business, one of my biggest strategies was to get in front of as many people as possible and talk about what it was I was doing. And so I spoke for free for the longest time. Anybody that would have me, which I don't necessarily recommend because I have some funny stories about talking to these 80 year old men at a rotary club, but I digress. I was speaking for free a lot, my first year in business. And I was talking about things I was super passionate about and what ended up happening as a result was that I was getting clients. I was getting invited to speak other places. I was, I got a newspaper column that way. I got a spot, a weekly life coaching segment on a local Fox network here because of that. The more people can see you and taste your energy live, the more wonderful doors are going to open for you. And so after that, after sort of getting some experience and gathering testimonials and figuring out within myself how I was on stage and where what kind of growth I wanted to have happen, then I started putting together what someone would call a signature speech. So I have a couple of different topics that I typically keynote about. And, you know, because I will say this because I have kids at home and they are teenagers. And you know, I have Ferris Bueller who requires his mama to be keeping an eye on the nest. I limit how many speaking gigs a year I will take on. And so it is a, it is a nice stream of income in my business. However, it is not, you know, at this point in my life, it will change probably in five years. But at this point in my life, I am not going after tons and tons of speaking gigs. However, people do come to me and it is a nice revenue stream for me. I think what is important for people to do is to start local, start speaking as often as you can. If it is a goal of yours, get a speaking reel together, get some testimonials and then start taking a look at where you want to spread your message. Well, I love the concept of a signature speech. To me, that is probably my favorite thing you said. Because I can tell you like, you know, when I first got opportunities to speak, it was mainly at blog world talking about like blogging and social media and things I have learned. And I very distinctly remember the conversation I had with AJ Leon, you know, me and Melissa called me up to say, hey, okay, so you are coming to misfit to speak. And I remember I was in Costa Rica and I said, you guys don't want me to talk about social media and blogging to you because I really have no interest in talking about that. They are like, no. I was like, thank God. And that is, you know, I mean, because that seemed like the easy route. It was like, well, yeah, obviously that is what you would talk about. You interview all these online people. So why would you talk about that? But I noticed something very different. It kind of brings our conversation full circle. When I decided I'm going to talk about this thing that I'm far more interested in, and I'm just going to tell my story and somewhere in there, I will make it useful for other people that opened up the world to me. Yeah, you know, and I think for me as a speaker, I have to be really excited about what I'm going to talk about. So when I get those requests, like you're saying, or someone, and I do get them, people will contact me and say, Oh, we've read, you know, a lot of what you're blogging about with your kids. Could you come talk to our parenting, you know, we're a national parenting association thing? I'm like, eh, you know, that's not my thing. It's not my gig. I'm not really willing to travel and talk on something I'm not on fire about even though my kids are a big part of my life. I'm not a parenting expert. Oh, yeah, somebody asked me once if I would be willing to do a talk on the ROI of podcasting. And I said, first, I'm an Indian person who sucks at math, so that would be a disaster. And the truth is, I was like, that, despite having run a podcast for four years, I have absolutely no interest in talking to anybody about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I've been contacted by a real estate associations, like, would you come and talk about business building stuff? And you know what? I'm very knowledgeable. I totally could. It makes me want to stab my eyeballs out. No, thank you. It's not going to happen. Yeah, I think that that it's kind of interesting. So let's see this one final question around this. I mean, you mentioned sort of doing work that makes you want to stab your eyeballs out. And the reason this is hot on my mind is I was talking to a friend yesterday about sort of bridging the gap between work that pays the bills and work that you actually love. And I feel like that, you know, if you're at an early stage of a journey, I can tell you, I did a lot of things I didn't like doing, but they brought in money. And they were, I mean, bit by bit, I let them go. And as I let them go, other things that make a lot more money filled their space. But how you sort of build a bridge between the work you hate doing and the work you want to be doing so that eventually the canvas is filled with all the things you love. Yeah, great question. And I'm super passionate about this too, because I'm definitely not a coach who advises people like, if you hate it, just quit your job. You know, I love for people to create what I call a transition plan. And and you know what Pam Slim calls calls it a side hustle. If you've got to have a side hustle, while you're saving money and and figuring out what kind of lifestyle you want to sustain, please do it. And please make sure that you have whatever six months to a year in the bank, before you're taking off full time with your the work that you love. And so what I did when I transitioned between real estate and life coaching was I put a plan together. And I advise people take a look at the money coming in the money going out. Can you adjust your lifestyle? How much realistically do you need to have in savings? And and you'll reach a tipping point like you were saying where the canvas is full of what you like. So so what I did was I decided on a goal for a figure, money I wanted to have saved in the bank. And then I got busy on it. And in yes, real estate made me want to stab my eyeballs out. It took me a while to transition. I started taking fewer real estate deals and coaching more at night and on weekends. And then slowly but surely my little nest egg built up, I had enough money and and could see based on having a business plan, at what point I could realistically say, okay, I'm walking out of my real estate office and I'm never going back. But I think the first step is for people to really understand their money situation, turn towards your money, heal any money issues you've got going on so that you're not carrying those into your new business. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a side hustle and doing things that maybe aren't your favorite. Just consider it an investment in the new company. Yeah, exactly. I think that the other way I love is what Diana Valentine said. She said, you know, think of your day job as your first angel investor. Oh, that's a weed. I love her too. We have the best people in common. Well, so one final question and we'll wrap things up. So Susan, I mean, you've gotten to be you've been around this world for a really long time and I close all my interviews with this because I still can't for the love of me think of a new question. So, you know, I mean, you've worked on something like an Oprah magazine and you've been close to people who've achieved really amazing things. And, you know, I keep seeing sort of this dichotomy in the world that we live in where you get people who go out and, you know, they play the game at like the highest level. I mean, it's like speaking gigs, thriving movements, thriving businesses. And then you get other people with the same resources, same opportunities. And they don't quite get there. And I'm wondering what you think it is that distinguishes those two groups of people. I think the biggest distinguishing factor is being willing to risk the ego. So what I see with people who have every advantage in every connection that aren't quite making it is that their heart is not in it. And their heart isn't in it because of ego. Yeah, I think that's that actually is a really good point. If your heart's not in something, it's it's pretty hard to keep going. Yeah, I mean, if you've got because I had no connections and I had all the passion in the world. And I feel like that is really what has propelled my business more than anything is just an unshakable belief that people can have what they want. And I can help them get it or turn them onto some material that can help them get it. You know, I love that you brought that up. And I'm going to finish up by by talk mentioning, you know, this off camera show, because it's just my latest inspiration. It was I think again, it was like Robert Downey Jr. When they were asking him about sort of, you know, do most of these creatives, like, no plan B. And I thought I'm like, wow, no plan B. What a crazy sort of approach to all of this. But I think that when you're you're of that mindset, that, okay, you know what, like, I don't have a plan B, I just have another plan A, which is totally different. Like, you know, in my mind, it's like, I'm going to start something else that I would enjoy doing. And I think about grit and, you know, sort of this willingness to stay in something so far past when the average person quits. And I think the only way you get that is if you're enthusiastic about what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it that's that's it. The heart and the passion and the enthusiasm is the to me, the best ingredients for business plan making it. Well, I think that makes a perfect and poetic way to sum up our conversation. Susan, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share some of your insights with our listeners. This has been really eye opening. And I think it's a great way to be kicking off ideas for the new year. Thank you so much. I am honored and had a blast. 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A mission to make personal development fun
Why you can be really good at something you hate
Lessons learned from the world of real estate
The key questions that you need to answer
Why finding a mission is an organic process
The messy nature of the creative process
Escaping the stigma associated with failure
The power of engaging in things your unfamiliar with
Cross pollination of ideas from multiple fields
Life coaching and the mimicry epidemic at work
The danger of copying other people's belief systems
Why messages and inspiration around you all day
Some powerful lessons on balancing work and life
Learning to create and identify multiple streams of income
Building a speaking platform around your personal brand
Bridging the gap between work you hate and work you love