The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

Starting a New Chapter in Life and Business with Danielle Laporte

In this Innagural episode of our new brand. The Unmistkable Creative, Danielle Laporte returns to the show for her 4th appearance. Danielle’s journey has carried her through a think tank in Washington DC, The Body Shop, her own business (which she got fired from) a best-selling book and The Desire Map.

Why bar tending is a course in learning about people
The power of tribes and promoting other people
Dealing with Your Ego and Overcoming The Impostor Complex
Looking at your Life and Business in Chapters
Why Great Customer Service is a Form of Consciousness
An Interesting look at Your Elevator Speech
The Reason You Should Avoid Grandiosity
Why We Must Leave Space for Resonance and Connection
How Selling Things You Don’t Care About can be Life Changing
Learning When and How to Say No to Things
How to be a Self Promoter Through Effective Story Telling
Why Behind the Scenes Stuff Appeals to Your Readers
An Early Look at Danielle Laporte’s Magazine
How Doing Things for Artistic Reasons Leads to Other Things
Looking at Your Work Through the Lens of a Publisher
Why Danielle is Primarily Concerned with her Existing Fans
How Danielle Currently Defines Her Success

Resources and People We Mentioned

F*ck the Elevator Speech

The Firestarter Sessions

The Desire Map

Wired for Story

Danielle Laporte is the maker of The Desire Map, The Fire Starter Sessions and Your Big Beautiful Book Plan. She adores truth seekers and belly laughs.You can follow her on twitter @daniellelaporte

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Broadcast on:: 06 Jan 2014
Audio Format:: other

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Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com/results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/results. And if you're interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, H-Y-D-R-O-W. What's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky H-Y-D-R-O-W. All that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. How's it going Danielle? It's going great because I am an unmistakable creative. So speaking of which, you know, like I said, we've had you here four times and of course every time we have you here, we have new listeners and you're up to so much more than you were the last time you were here. I mean, you're just constantly working on interesting things. But, you know, as I was saying before we hit record here, one of the things that we've never done in our earlier conversations is look at the very, very early part of your background. And so I'd love for you to talk a bit about the work you did prior to doing the work that we know you for today and how it kind of led to all the things that you're up to today. A great place to start is to say that I never went to university and the plan was I was going to graduate from high school and I was going to go to university and become a fashion designer. And I wanted to do like you and then I wanted to do some radical stuff like I was going to do like a nude fashion show and like just make this statement that like, you know, this facade of fashion is like screwing up our identities. Anyway, I didn't go to fashion school because when I was sewing and making patterns, I got these really intense headaches. And I walked out of my room one day and said to my mom, I get migraines when I do this, I'm not not going. And then I bartended and bartending is like psych 101 so that was my, my, that was like my course curriculum was like bartending learned so much about humanity. And then I, this was all like everything I've done, it just, it was, it was, wouldn't say it was accidental, but I just kind of like went with I was making it up as I went. And I started, these are the days when you had fax machines right, like your big, your big investment in your career was going to staples and getting your $198 fax machine. And I started promoting people, not even know that I'm knowing that I was promoting them so a friend of a friend like wanted to get like on a radio show for his new book. And so I was like, I'll call, I'll call, I'll pick up the phone. And I learned a lot about just picking up the phone and my 30 second pitch. And that led me into this world where I was promoting a lot of futurists quote unquote futurists. And the reason I put quotes around that is because that's pretty niche career path. And that was when I learned the power of, of tribe and of having a niche because you promote one futurist and the next one is going to call you and the next one. And then you're going to build a reputation as you're the, you're the person who promotes futurists. And I became, and I also learned about becoming obsessed with what I was involved in, because you know, and that was, that was how I learned it was I'm going to go to every conference. I'm going to read every newsletter that's when you still got newsletters printed and sent to you and business size envelopes. And that led me to eventually didn't take that long running a think tank so one of those futurists got some funding from a wacky guy in Silicon Valley. And we decided, you know, he really wanted to like stand up this stand this up as a business and a nonprofit and said, Hey kid, you want to move to DC and run this. And I had nothing to lose. It was like, you know, never in a long term relationship didn't own any large furniture didn't have a dog. I'll move. Sure. And there I was getting first level security clearance to the Pentagon. And we, I was running a team of 20 or so people who were at a futurist theologian and food scientist, and we were writing white papers and selling them for many thousands of dollars on the weapons of mass destruction and Y2K and water shortages and AIDS in Africa. And every day, every day I got asked where I went to school and design a non disclosure agreement. And I really leveraged for a while, not having gone to school. I didn't even know what all the matter was I had to look up the definition. I was like, I was like, I didn't go to school. I picked up the phone. I made it. But underneath all that I really like had a pretty substantial and posture complex. I was, I felt like a big fake. And I was doing a, I was doing a decent job at leadership. And it was, it was getting good things out of people. But I just got home and smoking some eyebrows and reading Rolling Stone magazine. And then that all came to an end, the dot com. Boom crash burnt over funding gone finished. And I realized I was, I was like faking it to make it. And I wanted to be in an environment where I would like resonance and tattoos weren't going to freak anybody out. And I really didn't care about politics. So I got out of DC. Then I walked around at my small house in my pajamas for six months, did not know who I was. Wouldn't say I was depressed. I was lost. I got rejected from art school. I saved that letter. And. Well, through the day, I probably still wouldn't get into art school. I definitely would not get into art school now. And then I started a quote lifestyle media company, which is just a fancy term for a very expensive blog talking about soul branding. And we raised, I wrote a book and Oprah called and then we raised all this money because I realized I didn't want to be this consultant to make, you know, quote. The, you know, like just six figures a year and have to show up every day at an office. And we were going to take a big online and the money came in and the more money came in, the more silent I became. The more people we got as advisors mentors on the board of directors, the more silent I became, the more miserable I got, the more silent I became until I got fired from my own company. And that was brutal and awesome and liberating and a great thing. Then I hit the ground running like really hit that I gave myself there was about, I scried for about six weeks and had to meet with lawyers and all of that and get some more therapy and meet with my Buddha shrink. And then I, then I started website and then started doing quote unquote fire starter sessions, my one on one jamming with entrepreneurs. Cause I was like, I got to make some money. I just got fired. And the company, by the way, went under three months after a can me because there's such a thing as karma. And that was really the beginning of this chapter, although, you know, ironically, as, you know, as we're not ironically just in the sequence of time. Now that you and I are talking, I've really just ended a huge chapter and just started a new one. So, you know, what I'm doing now with launching the desire map and the new site and all that is. It really represents more on a personal level, but professionally too. It's the end of a decade for me. So, you know, then came fire starter sessions and going on the road and sitting in people's living rooms and board rooms and like a pole dancing studio talking about entrepreneurship. And then out of that came a book and then out of that, you know, then I don't like the term branding, but then, you know, I was out there. I was out. And then came desire map. And now, and now I really feel like I've become a publisher. And I really feel like I'm just starting. It's, it's beautiful. All right. Awesome. And this is why we have you back for the fourth time because you always give us so much to work with. So, let's take a few steps back. I want to start as early as bartending. You know, you said that bartending is a, I mean, come on, Daniel, you've been on my show before, you know that I'm going to dig into every little gem you gave me. So, let's start with the bartending piece. I mean, you said bartending is really psych 101 in terms of what you learn about people and that that's not shocking to me because I'm just, you know, the amount of weird conversations I've had with bartenders probably indicate that to me. But what I'm curious about is what those lessons were in terms of dealing with people and how you've brought those into everything else that you do. Well, I was doing two things simultaneously, which is I was bartending, and I was also managing a small apartment building because I could get free rent. And between that I felt like I got my psych 101, 101 degree. I learned that people want to be right, you know, arguing with a patron in the restaurant over if it was really champagne or rosé. And champagne is champagne because it comes from the champagne region. I actually don't know that much about wine at all. I have no taste buds. You need it to be right. So I'm just like, okay, dude, you are, you're right. And I learned that people want to be acknowledged and like, great customer service is a form of consciousness. You know, to just, to know when to, some people, some people have that need. They just, they want constant attention when you're serving them. Other people don't want too much attention, and it's your job to really intuit that. And services about service, service is about giving people what they want in that context. I also learned a lot about like mental illness. People come in who, who most and same people would say, like, you are, you are mentally ill. You, you are crazy. And dealing with that. And what I learned with people who would be, you know, easily identified as crazy is that you can still, you can still set this context for manners with them. And it's like, you know what, you may be crazy. And you maybe have just come off out of this, you know, you're, you're in this rough crew and you've walked into my bar, but I'm going to show up as graceful with you. And I'm going to expect some manners from you. And it'd be amazing how when I kind of put that energy out of like, I don't care who you, you know, don't give me that. And I'm going to be kind to you and I'm going to expect the same, how the energy would shift. And that's come and really handy in business, actually. You may be ruthless, but I'm going to expect kindness from you. Yeah, and that you can't help everybody. I had two people who were paranoid schizophrenic in my apartment building. And I knew this because their parents were dealing with me. And they were so, you know, they were begging me to keep these people in the apartment building, even though, you know, one guy's walking around naked in the parking lot. And you, I just really, you can't help. You can't help everybody. That was really painful for me. Really painful, having to evict people because they were, they were causing problems for everybody. But yeah, lessons of life. So, love it. I mean, I love what you said about great customer service being a form of consciousness. And, you know, I think back to the chat I had with Nisha Moudley when she talked to me about, you know, her whole idea was, I'm very clear on how I want people to feel when they come into my world. That was probably the most, one of the most eye-opening things I ever heard about customer service. And it's been sort of the driving force behind how I'm designing every experience I want people to have when they deal with me. And that's, hence, the big rebranding, the renaming and redesign. Because I just felt that, you know what, people aren't feeling the way I want them to feel when they come into my world. So I really appreciate you bringing that up. I want to talk about one other thing that you mentioned in this earlier part. You talked about becoming a promoter of other people in this whole 30-second pitch idea. And the reason I want to ask you this is because I know a lot of people contact you asking you to promote their stuff. A lot of people are trying to get the attention of influencers. So I'm wondering, you know, how do people get their 30-second pitch down? Like, in a world where, you know, people like you are inundated with requests and, you know, attention is just like decreasing. Our attention spans are shorter than they've ever been. I have a contentious relationship with the 30-second pitch now. Because I think your 30-second pitch might change for different people. And I just had a friend, Shayla Davis, and just wrote a great piece called Fuck the Elevator Speech. And I had to agree with it. It was about showing up as who you are, and it's changeable. That said, sometimes you need your elevator, and you need your elevator speech. How you get there is, you don't pay attention to what everybody else is saying. And you have to stay away from grandiosity. So, you know, it doesn't work for me if I'm on the escalator with you, and you tell me that you're setting out to empower women to become their true selves. You know, inside, I'm going to roll my eyes. I go, "Yeah, but what do you really do?" Yeah. And I think the way you can get it across is you can tell a story and you say, "First of all, I want to know who you work with. So, let's do your 30-second pitch." You just say, "You know, I have my own online radio show." Is that what you would call this? Yeah, online radio. Online radio shows a good way to put it, or a media company is the way I would put it. Okay, but I don't understand what media company means. I get radio. I get online. So, I've got an online radio show, and I talk to people who, I talk to entrepreneurs. I talk to what most people would consider, like, you know, change agents from "insert name" to "from insert name" to people who are, you know, working on electric cars and trying to break the Internet. Oh, I got that. I might not know any people that you just told me about, but I get that. And I'm going to lean forward to hear more because I'm curious or not. But so, no grandiosity. Let me know who you're working with, like, dropping some names if you can, just for context. And you know what? Here's like the kind of the disclaimer with cocktail lines and elevator speeches. If you don't want to throw it out to somebody, don't. You know, like, I go in, I go in, get my haircut, or get facial, and people ask me what I do, and I go, "Ah, right." That's it. And then I go, "Oh, I have an uncle who's a writer." And I go, "That's great." And I say nothing. And yeah, but I'm an introvert, so. I love it. Well, you know, it's funny. Yeah, because I know I asked you a very similar question last time when we were talking about the cocktail party line, and we kind of, like, what I find is that it constantly evolves. Like, the way I would explain it now three years later is very different than the way I would have explained it, you know, two years ago. But I love that you brought up the person who asks, because every time I feel like I'm about to explain myself, I'm like, this sounds like a totally made up job that doesn't even sound real. I think I'm just going to stop the conversation here. Just leave it at I'm a writer. And you know what? We've got to leave space for resonance and connection. Like, if someone is like on your wavelength, if there's like a, in their place, like a good, if there's good energy, you could say, "I'm just a writer." And like, there'll be a relationship, Spark, and I go, "What are you right about?" And I go, "Okay." Now, you know, and I go, "Well, I write about entrepreneurship and I write about consciousness." And then I go, "Oh, yeah." And then I go, "Well, then I wrote this book." And you're off to her. But I think you can, I think, you know, the way human beings and human beings are wired, you actually, you just need like a little tiny, you don't need to say it all. And it'll unravel, it'll unravel. Like, I try, you know, in my early days, I like, script things more. "What am I going to say if I meet them?" And you just get all knotted up. It affects your energy. You don't think it's clearly. You look dorky. And now I really try and just be like, "Hey, hi, I'm here." And you feel the vibe. I'm feeling the vibe. And away you go. Well, it's funny, you know, I put up a Facebook status update saying that, "Hey, I'm interviewing Danielle. Does anybody have any questions?" And of course, it's littered with questions. And one of them, this is, you know, almost exactly what we said. It's like when I talk to, you know, when I, you know, in the presence of Danielle, I get tongue tied. And, you know, this is part of, you know, what you're talking about is the reason I have no scripted conversations here on the show. I don't have a list of questions. I have no idea where it's going to go. To me, it's writing a wave and just adjusting to what the wave is doing. I so love that, you know, spoken like a surfer, right? So, you know, I think this actually makes a perfect setup. You know, we're talking about this elevator speech and, you know, that post that your friend wrote. And I'll link that in the show notes for those of you guys listening. But one other thing that you said is that, you know, when you are at the think tank, you're leading a team of people, but you're dealing with an imposter syndrome. So two questions come from that. One, leadership lessons learned from that that you have applied to running teams. And the more so the imposter syndrome, because I think that a lot of us feel that. Like, I really do. I think that we feel that. We struggle with it. It's something that is a huge pain point. I mean, I can tell you, I think there is a line in my book where I wrote. I was an imposter for over a decade. And I felt it along this journey too, at times. Sure. And you'll probably feel it again. Yeah. Yeah, imposter syndrome is a syndrome. It's an epidemic. And what did that, what did I learn through leadership? I learned that I was never, I never faked caring about somebody ever. I think that's why I could get people to deliver, because I like was genuinely loving. I just, I want to know about their lives. And, and we all became friends. Like, we just created a space of friendship. And I'll tell, oh, I get choked when I think about that. I'll tell you one of my biggest regrets as a manager was one of our guys was he was late for a staff meeting. There was a lot of pressure. We really needed to get this, you know, this project delivered. And, and, you know, he was a talker. Anyways, like very verbose guy. So it's like Charles, who I'm still very good friends with. Charles was always off, you know, talking to somebody. And we were both were like paper files. We love paper and typography. And he had this, we had this, this beautiful kind of graph paper. I mean, this is so geeky, right? This beautiful graph paper that we had special ordered. And I was pissed with him because he was holding the whole team up. And we really needed him. And I, in a big marker, wrote on his special graph paper. Why are you late again? And I left because I knew he'd come back to his office. And we went, he came, he came to the meeting. We had the meeting. And he said, why did you yell at me? Because that's what I did. I yelled at him. And writing on his graph paper, I was crushed because I would never yell at somebody. I'm not a yeller. And that's what I did. And I just thought there was a better way, there was a way better way of doing that. So I was always genuine in the caring. What I was disingenuous about was, I mean, I felt like if I just felt I was a fish out of water. I mean, listen, first day I went to the White House. For a meeting on a community building in Y2K, I had purple bangs and I wore a white suit. I look like Elvis, you know, and I'm there with everybody. You know, and the meeting leader came up to me afterwards because he was a like closet cool guy. And he was like, you're not from here. Are you guys like, oh, and I also, you had to fake it all the time. You had to fake being interested in politics and you had to fake giving a shit about stuff. I just wasn't interested in. So I was, it wasn't a complex part of it was a complex part. I was actively faking it and it was killing me. Oh my God. It was so crushing. I'm glad. And I mean, oh my God, no regrets. But boy, I mean, a week I quit. Pierce my nose got two new tattoos dyed my hair bright red and like, you know, I bought a pack of smokes. I mean, I think it's interesting. This is one of those things. I think we really struggle with this. You know, a lot of your work has influenced me in this way. I mean, I can tell you, I felt that exact imposter syndrome. You talk about not caring about the work that you do and I can tell you part of it. I realized why I never thrived in the environments I was in because I actually on, you know, a deep down level, it didn't matter to me. Like, if the company went under, I was like, you know what? If I got my severance, I'd be out of here and I'd be happy because this thing is over. Like, it did not matter to me one bit. And I, you know, I was telling somebody the other day, you know, as I was making calls for our attendees for the instigator experience, I said, wow, I'm selling something I hated doing. But it's really different because it's something that I truly care about. It's something that I've built with my own two hands. And I really genuinely care about the people who are going to be at this event. Like, you know, somebody asked me, how do you measure the success? And I said, yeah, you have to sell tickets in order to cover your costs. But the real success is the outcomes of the people who are there. Hey, what's that? What's that Steve Jobs quote about? Do you want to do that, or do you want to sell sugar water to kids? Do you want to come with me and change the world or do you want to keep selling sugar water for the rest of your life said to John Scully? Right. Talking about carbonated beverages. And there's so many times, I mean, I don't put my energy into this anymore. I'm going to give you actually really paradoxical perspective on this. Okay, so one side. Selling sugar water to kids, selling apps you don't care about, selling clothes that nobody like, you know, all that, you know, what we could label meaningless stuff. That may be your most karmic enlightening evolutionary, you know, Buddha mind thing, you can do this lifetime like so. On one like cosmic level, who cares, it doesn't matter what you're doing. It's your, it's your darmic path. Your soul is unfolding no matter what you're doing. A juxtaposed with, really, do you want to sell, do something with meaning, make stuff that matters, you know, and then I can say there's like a third pillar to that which is, you know, take the Hippocratic oath, which is at the very least at the very least do no harm. And so much that we've got going in terms of business and materialism and consumption is actually causing us harm. And do you want to participate in that? And a lot of us have and do and are. Yeah, I think that, I mean, it's, I think I see it in the online world too. When people's intentions are good, but they're still causing harm, which, you know, that that's a whole other discussion. We can get like, let's get into that just based on that. I want to, I want to actually talk. Let's, you know what, we'll hit the next subject in a second. I don't care if we go over an hour because this is really good. Tell me what you're about to say. Well, no, I want to know what you're about to say. How do you see that people in the online world are causing harm? Well, I think that we have a mimicry epidemic, which I've mentioned before, because, you know, people see you, Danielle. And I can tell you that there are people who say, you know what, I want to be Danielle report. And I know that your intention has never been to create clones of yourself. And I talked to Nisha moodly about this. And I said, you know what, I see this with the life coaching people. It's like, you know, you get a client and their goal is to become you. And we made, you know, Greg Hartle and I sat down at the beginning of last year. He made me, he made me make a list of products and things I wanted to create. And then he made me compare to what else was out there that could be, you know, considered competitors. And he said, you know what, are you interested in creating more of yourself because these products teach people how to become clones of the people that made those products. And I said, I definitely don't want that because Daniel, our community is full of so many brilliant, talented people. And I thought to myself, why would we piss away their talents on becoming replicas of us? We have photographers. We have artists. Why would we waste that unmistakable brilliance? The world would miss out on something special in my mind. And the thing is that we see something that works, you know, speaking of imposter syndrome, we see something that works and we question our own authenticity and our own bravery and our own, you know, unmistakable brilliance. Yeah, yeah, there's, okay. Yes, to everything you just said. Yes. And I think the best service that you can offer is how to help people is helping people find their thing, their voice, their look, they're a special thing. And there's there's ways to do that, how people dig and look at where gratitude is showing up and all of that. And then, you know, we got to leave some space for emulation and inspiration. So, I was just talking about this recently. I, um, I love to analyze why I'm inspired by something. So, you know, my, the, the, the like hottest example for me is, I went to go see Alexander McQueen's exhibit a couple years ago at the Met in New York. I was blown away by the art of his design. I was just thinking, I want to do what he did, but in my way, in my world in terms of writing and online stuff and publishing it. And why did I get like so turned on by that exhibit. And it was because he was so dark so macabre and at the same time, so light. He showed both sides and as I ha. That's how I'm going to translate that inspiration I'm going to be like dark and gritty. I'm going to be going to be light and divine and comedic and, and then bring it all out. So, I think that's a useful exercise if you're creative and if you're trying to push the boat out in terms of the public profile is like, why do the people that inspire you inspire you and it's, and why do you want to emulate what do you want to emulate about them. It's like when I used to do the one on one strategy, work with entrepreneurs, I would always ask them who they ended. It was amazing. Actually, I could probably give you like data on this. So many female entrepreneurs said Angelina Jolie. And I would, and I knew what was behind that because I'd asked I'd heard enough. But I was always, I've always drilled down and say, why what is it about Angelina Jolie other than being, you know, six feet tall. And it was her boldness. And always that was, that was an atrophied muscle for whoever I was talking to. They wanted to be more bold. So, whoever you're trying to mimic, or you admire, or you envy, envy is very interesting. You've got that quality in either it's latent or is that your feet and it's time to evoke that quality within yourself. I love that. I think it's, you know, the way, the way I described it is, you know, like I can say to some degree, I'm responsible because I provide a show where people take advice and ideas from people like you. But what I said is that advice is ingredients, but the recipe is yours and you mixing it up in a way that only you could as how you find what makes you unmistakable. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Good advice. So, let me ask you this. Another thing that you brought up, you know, and I love that I think this is just, you know, I love our conversations because they just flow so beautifully. You know, you brought up this idea of environmental resonance and I want to talk about this in more depth because I think it's really important and it's a lesson that you taught me, but it took a very long time for me to buy into it. When we last spoke, you told me your art can never be about the money and my, well, I love the sound of it and it sounded poetic. I thought, yeah, I thought, yeah, of course, and I mentioned it multiple times on the show. I said, yeah, of course, that's easy to say if you're Danielle report. But when I embraced it, I mean, the results of this last year, pretty much are indicative of what happened. So, I want to talk about. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's just stop there. So it worked. Huh? Is that what you say? It worked? But the point that I want to make is that, yeah, it worked because I bought into it, but I think the harder part was actually buying into it. And what I want to talk about is finding that environmental resonance that you talked about and buying into this idea that your art can never be about the money because I am telling you that people will hear that and say, yeah, that sounds nice and inspiring, but got to pay the bills. Yeah, listen, the stakes just get higher. So when you're going to make your first $30,000 off your blog, or you're making your first 50 grand that year, whatever it is, there's going to be things that you should still be saying no to, because they don't fit the shape of your soul. It's out of integrity. It's not pointed in the direction you really want things to go. And those are going to be tough decisions when you need to pay the rent tough. I mean, there's, you got to do a lot of sucking up. Make sure you got your basics met in the beginning, for sure. But you're just going to get that lesson again and again and again. So you could say, well, it's easy for somebody to say when they've got some money in the bank or their businesses. Guess what? I say, I still have to say no to big money stuff. All the time, like, no to the advance, no to the deal, no to the just, it's a no. I, and I say, you know, there's decisions I've made in this launch for desire map. I just, I just said, no to 60 grand, because I lowered the price of something. I've got, you know, 6,000 units of something printed. I thought we had priced it too high. If I reduce the price, that's $60,000. And I would rather, the money doesn't exist yet. The 60 grand hasn't come. So, you know, in an illusory time as an illusion metaphysical way, what's to say no to. But I couldn't live with feeling like something was overpriced. Yuck. And I also know that if I feel out of integrity, it's going to affect things. There's going to be more complaints. It turns. So, I feel good. I feel, yeah, you're constantly going to say no to money if you are in artistic or creative integrity. Yeah. Explaining football to the friend who's just there for the nachos, hard. Tailgating from home like a pro with snacks and drinks everyone will love, any easy win. Instacart helping deliver the snack time MVPs to your door, you're ready for the game in as fast as 30 minutes. 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But with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn dot com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn dot com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. It's funny. I have a Facebook update about this this morning. It'll probably be three weeks ago by the time you guys listen to this. But I said compromising on your ideal life is a habit and the more you do it, the easier it becomes to do. And you're right. When all this stuff started to happen to me, it was funny because I got let go from the very last freelancing gig. And I used to have this tendency to jump immediately try to fill empty space with something else. And I realized I was like, wow, I'm taking all my negative energy and baggage to this empty space. So it's really not empty when I get there. And I said, you know what, I'm going to fill this space with things I want to create. And I noticed I was like, wow, the volume of email in my inbox dramatically decreased. And I had these, how am I going to make any money moments? And all these really crazy things started to happen. This beautiful story, right? And what you're saying, compromise becomes a habit. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's a profoundly true. Well, let's do this. Let's shift gears. And I want to get into something tackle what I want to talk about one last thing from this part of your journey, which is getting fired from your own company, kind of like a Steve Jobs moment. Yeah, what? Yeah. Actually, that his story gave me comfort. So talking about lessons learned from that and kind of, you know, one of the things that you mentioned, you kind of almost like, and your story parallels in so many ways, because you said, you know, you suddenly have this lightness of being a beginner again and getting to do work that really does resonate and letting all of the things that you've built go. So one, dealing with the pain of letting go of something, I'm curious about that. And then of course, getting to this place of lightness, because I think that getting back to sort of a beginner's mind, I feel like that's something that we have to do over and over again to create our best work. And I'm curious how you do it. Okay, lots of layers in there. So getting canned equals a lot of rage. And then when you realize when I took full responsibility for my part, not full responsibility for the whole situation, because that's ridiculous. When I took responsibility for my involvement and how I created that, I felt free that it dissipated the rage. And I realized that all the betrayal that happened, because there's so much betrayal in that situation. You know, as a company with my name on it, it's like so-and-so and Danielle.com. I wrote everything and here I am, you know, it's a personality-driven brand. I mean, it's just absurd. What happened was absolutely absurd. But the other kind of absurdity that happened was that I was quiet. And so the betrayal that happened and all the theatrics was really just a reflection of me betraying myself. It's every time I kept my mouth shut. It's the day, oh, you know, I remember this. It was the day I signed over signing authority on the company checking account to the guy that I'd hired. And my whole body was just like, this is wrong. I wanted to scream, but I was told that there could only be X amount of signatures on the account. And I was just like, this doesn't make any sense, but I did it because there was all this money on the line, you know, and I thought I... So I learned that, yeah, it was my betrayal. And once I took radical responsibility for that, then I could see my way clear. And I also, you know, once I got, you don't get over the anger, you just kind of set it, you put it in its place. You go, yeah, I should be angry. That was shit. That was disrespectful. That was a lie. That was wrong. Anger warranted. Boom. And you go, okay, now what's next? Oh, what's next is liberation. Oh my God, does this ever feel good? I don't have to go in there every day. I don't have to fake it anymore. Oh, thank you. This wouldn't be the way I wanted to manifest it, but boy, was it clean? And was it quick? And did it set me free one day? My life changed and for the better rather than a slow drawn out thing. So I learned that there's something else potentially profound I want to say about that, but I forget. No worries. I think that that actually kind of makes a perfect way to wrap up this segment of our conversation. So let's start getting into something a bit more tactical. You know, I had Linda Sivertsson here and she spoke extensively about how wonderful you were. We had an amazing conversation. And one of the things that came up was this concept, you know, from this book called Wired for Story. And, you know, we were talking kind of about how you unveil things to the world and how you constantly talk about, you know, what you're working on. Because, you know, when we had you here last, you had sort of this first iteration of the desire map. But clearly, in the last year, since we've had you here, you've really just kind of expanded everything you're doing into something much more significant. So a couple of questions come from around that kind of, you know, the process of doing what you're doing. And then, of course, this idea of talking about it and unveiling it to the world and telling the story about what you're working on and how we do it with our work. Well, I'm going to be a bit cheeky and say, you know, the Twitter invitation is, what are you doing or what are you thinking there? So, well, what I'm doing is writing a book. I'm going to read about that. And, yeah, I just, you know, I communicate about my current reality. I'm never shy to be excited about something like, Oh, my God, book off the press. Cool. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm doing more hours a week. And I also know that every time, anytime I feel shy about sharing something, go, Oh, feel shy. This could be like a little over self promotional. It could be interpreters being self emotional. Somebody says, thank you. I go, I'm so, it's so exciting to see how this is unfolding. And also, I know, personally, I love behind the scenes stuff, which I just learned recently is called BTS behind the scenes. I'm like, okay, BTS. I love to see how magazines are made. I love, you know, my favorite part of the movie is like the making of at the end of the DVD. Yeah, so, and it's fun to share the creative, to share the creative process. And also, and this is one of the many beautiful things about social media is I love being able to put a question up on my Facebook page. And get some feedback. Like, okay, guys, what's everybody think about goal setting, or what do you want your, I'm making this for you. We're like, we're involved. What do you, what do you want in your day timer? And we listen to a lot of what people ask for, not all the time, because sometimes I think I know better, or sometimes I just want to start my, but most of the time I'm like, okay, you want it, you got it, here comes. Love it. I love that you're talking about sort of the creation process, because it's something that I'm very open with, too. Like, I mean, my entire last book was written through Facebook status updates. So, you know, I pretty much, it's like, okay, this is the process. I don't know where, I don't know where we're going, but you guys are coming with me. And then even for the instigator experience, the way we unveil the speakers. I mean, I think the seven months of assembling the concept, every week, there was something about it mentioned. Like, we would just throw little bits out here and there. Like, all the puzzle pieces were like, hey, here's the next puzzle piece. Here's a clue about who our next speaker is. And I definitely have probably learned that from kind of watching how you've done things. So, let's get into specifics. I mean, you've, you know, you've obviously iterated on the previous version of the desire map that we had here and obviously expanded it like crazy. And now you're working on a magazine, too. So, I mean, since you've last been here, what have you been up to? Yeah. Okay. Well, magazine is going to come out in May of 2014. And it's, it's, it's bliss. It's heaven to create no idea how to make a magazine. You've learned a ton, doing some crazy, what we consider stuff that's innovative within the industry, the industry that's dying, by the way, magazine making. So that's wildly fulfilling. And it's happening. It's sort of my, my side car right now. And then, you know, I've just, the desire map grew. So it actually might, you know, the first iteration came out over a year ago. And the day we launched it, I said to Angie, who's my business manager. Let's just watch. We actually didn't do much promotion. We promote a lot leading up to it. And then it's out. And then I said, well, let's just see what happens. See if people like it now. And people wanted more. And so they got more. They got more this December and January. And it's grown into a day planner and a journal and a workbook and eight hours of new audio, which I'm very, very proud of. I was co produced with, well, fully produced by a sounds true. And I would say it's some of my best work because I was just, I was. For me, I was allowed and encouraged and prodded to just sit in a sound booth for four days and riff. So it's really, you know, it's like for me as just like, I am just as a transmission. And I had a great producer who was engaged and said, you know, you know, you just said something about forgiveness. Let's let's go go deeper into that or go deeper. And I was like, I love you. So I'm really happy about the audio stuff. And that's a lot. Oh, oh, oh, and a whole new website, which has been like, I went from having like a really great Volvo to a Maserati of a website in terms of code to everybody. And so two things happen like it got much more complex and robust and user friendly in the background. And I'm so I love that because it's great service. And then in terms of design, we just stripped that bitch down. We're just like black and white. I, you know, it was a big design decision. Like the design geeks listening will totally like get this like, it's a huge design decision for me to say, I want the bright blue hyperlinks that we've had since like 1993. I don't want them to be yellow or hot pink. I want to just go back to basics. And I want black and white photography. And so it's as simple as can be. I've had other designers who came in and just said, you need to be pink. And it needs to be more feminine because there's so many women in your audience and and when more layers and cascading and I just like, what? No. Yeah. So I'm really excited about that. And I feel like, you know, I just became a publisher. I've been publishing all along. But this is really. This is a big new chapter for me. I feel like I, I turned the corner at the end of 2013. And, and I'm going to ride this wave. It's. It's exciting. All right. So a couple more questions that come from us and then we'll start to wrap things up. But so, you know, you talked about sort of, you know, putting it out there and then watching sort of the response from the audience. And I think that this is something we don't really do enough. Like, we put something out and then we're immediately on to the next thing or project and, you know, I'm speaking through my own personal experience. I mean, especially watching sort of the way my book is resonated with people in a way that I never would have predicted a million years and part of me thinks, okay, well, what, what else can be done? You know, with this, I mean, what are the other expressions of this work? You know, Ajay Leon talks about having multiple profitable expressions of a message or an ethos. But what I'm more curious about is not how you create the expressions, but how you look at, you know, sort of the feedback and find threads that could lead to the expansion of it. I don't get it. Totally. I should make it simpler. Very, very simple. How do you take the feedback that you've received and the responses based on the first version and iterate. Ah, well, I know when someone's right. You know, I get some feedback. They're right. That sucked. You know, a lot of time you're like, yeah, I wanted to change that anyway. And I'm just always want to make things better, better, better, better, which is why I always want to burn everything I've ever done, ever. Yeah, and I, it's got to, it's got to fit for me. So I never, I never do things just for just to like please the audience or the buyers. It's, you know, like a lot of people want to license desire map. I am not ready. I said that requires a lot of thought. I got to think about how that's going to change my life is basically I'm like, it's not going to lead to me having more email because if it is, that's a no. I people want some stuff about relationship or relationships and desire mapping. And I go, yes, but I don't feel qualified. There are things to say about the masculine and the feminine and relationship. But I got a, I want to do that. I do want to go in that direction, but I'm going to bring some more people in to talk about that. And that's that would be new for me, bringing some other experts in to like share the space, but I'm totally stoked to do that. I go, yeah, good idea. Let's see if that works with my heart right now and my team. This is another, this is another, this is kind of a new metric for me, which is what's a team want to do. Because now I have a team. And I'm, I love them. And, you know, the reason we're one of the key reasons I decided to go ahead with the magazine was because Angie was super excited about it. She's like, Oh, magazine went dream. I was like, great. Let's do it. Do you wonder about what's next in tech join us on conversations with leaders, a podcast from Amazon Web Services and hear predictions from top minds in the industry like VJ Chatur, co-founder and CEO Blueshift. We're just going to go next is really about combining that Jenny and I with what we call a customer AI. 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I'm not doing this to get to a number. I'm doing this to feel better. Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com. Real Noom users compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, a typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary. Forging ahead together drives Colorado's pioneering spirit at Chevron, we donate funding and volunteer thousands of hours in support of the community's We Call Home. We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. That's Energy in Progress. Visit Colorado.chefron.com [music] Hey there, it's Greenee and Humber and we are back and better than ever. Got your answers is for sale. And if you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, Humber, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky Humber trivia questions. All that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. [music] Yeah, you know what? I love this because I think one of my favorite things you said is that you don't just do it because the audience wants it. Your heart is really in it. One of the things that I, the only expansion that I could think of of my book is I wanted to do a very special edition artistic illustrated by my two favorite illustrators, Mars Dorian and Sarah Steenland. Hardcover, like glossy pages. And I want to do it on Kickstarter and I want to print 100 copies and I want it to be a souvenir and it will be done. And that's it. And the funny thing is that's not a project for money. It's a project because I think it would be beautiful. Like I think it'll be fulfilling artistically. And that's kind of, you know, the more that I've taken that approach to things, like something dramatically changed in the work that I've done. And I'm having a hell of a lot more fun. Yeah, right. Yeah, but here's the thing. Because somebody listening right now is going, how is that going to make you money and how does having a hell of a lot of fun artistic expression. That actually may not make you money literally. Let's say you sell 100 copies or 500 copies or you end up giving them all away because you're inspired to do that. But that will energize you. That will feel you to go do things that make you money. That felt so good. I think more clearly I'm more creative and more dynamic. That gave me 10 more ideas. I'm going to launch this and we're going to sell a thousand at 100 bucks or whatever it is. So it's fuel. Cool. So one final question and then I'll throw in a few questions that I saw from the Facebook feed. You mentioned this idea that you've now become a publisher. And I'd love you for one to define that for us. What are the implications for the rest of us? Because I think to some degree we are all in the publishing business. I had Jocelyn Glie from 99U here and she said, "Shrini, you're creating a conference. That's a form of publishing. You're creating a podcast. That's a form of publishing." So I'm curious. When you say that, how do you define it and then what are the implications of it and then what are the takeaways for people listening? Well, I think we're all publishers and we're not. I mean, for what that means for me is I feel like I've really stepped into the book business. Now, I've got multiple products and I've set up this Maserati of an e-commerce system that I can build on so that I can sell more of more products. But also, I'm paving the way to curate and to publish other people's things. I mean, this is where I'm going. Because I have friends who have great material and are terrible promoters and don't know that Helvetica is queen. And I just, my impulse to produce some people is like, it's overwhelming sometimes. It's like, "Oh my God, I want to get my hands on your stuff." So to speak. And I'm not ready to do that right now because I'm writing this wave of my stuff. But I actually want to get to a place where, and this isn't about quantity, but I've created a structure that can keep up with my creative energy. And that hasn't been in place before. So I got like three more books I want to do next year. And some of them, they're light and they're small and there's a stationary line and there's an app. And I am, and I'm going to be even more prolific. And that's joy. For me, that's joy. And why pace myself? Let's just keep going. This is joy. Let's do it. And then I'll have more of a grid to bring in somebody's work. I just think, yeah, I really want to do what I can for people to hear about what you're doing. And that's also, you know, that goes into long term stuff for me of like, you know, when my 15 minutes are over, is anybody, is anybody care about what I got to say 10 years from now? I don't know. Maybe not. I might not be cool. 10 years from now. I mean, I'll still be cool. But there's room, you know, there's different times of change. But I'm not going to go away. I want to be still raising the conversation. And I want to bring in the next person and the next person and the next person and get them out there. I love it. I mean, you know, I think one of the personal sort of realizations that I've come to over this last year was that I'm not defined by any one piece of work that I do. It's an entire, you know, what Pam Slim calls a body of work. And I think that, you know, I talked to Pat Flynn about this. I said, "The more that I approach this as an artist, the more interesting it's become." And I think that that opens up a world of possibilities. And I think that too often we're pigeonholed into saying, "Hey, this is my one thing and this is the one and only thing I do." Yeah, no. That's habitual labeling. We want to label who we are in the world, and then we label what we do, and then it's like a little straight jacket. So one final personal question, and then I'll incorporate a few listener questions, because there are so many. You know, one of the things that we talked about when we had you here on our call where, you know, it was you, me, Justin and James Altucher, and we're talking about charisma. And I've noticed this with you. I mean, every time you have an effect on people, and I've noticed that people who are connected to your work aren't just connected to it. They're fanatical about it. It really are. I always jokingly say, "I'm like, "Daniel's created a cult." And I'm very curious. What's the takeaway? I'm sure people want to have that effect on people. I know you've talked to me about it before, and to me, at least from the sense that I get from talking to you, is that it really comes from a very, very genuine place. So I'm curious. How do you create that? Well, you don't set out to create that. It goes back to your residence. So you, there's a couple things in this. You have to just be committed or interested. You have to be interested in serving people who resonate with you. So I have no time anymore with converting people. What do I want to convert somebody for? I have to expend energy that would be better used, actually making stuff for people who want my stuff. I'm not here to sell you. I'm here to just radiate. And if you dig it, great, come closer. I got something for you. So there's that. You also have to always keep in mind. Always never, ever, ever take for granted a tweet, a Facebook post, the fact that someone lets you into their inbox. I am grateful for every person who subscribes to myself. I don't, yeah, I just don't take any of that for granted at all. I find it, I think it's a great honor that somebody actually reads my stuff. And when somebody comes up to me and says, I read that piece and it changed the way I thought, you know what, there's still, there's part of me and my brain goes, you read my article. What, I still can't believe it. And, oh, and then the other thing is you commit to serving those people all the time. And this will become dichotomous as you get bigger. So this is sort of where I'm at right now is. There's a lot of discussion now around like how my audience, how do we go from like, you know, 200,000 to 500,000 and then how do you go to a million and it's great that you've got this but then how do we get to people who've never heard of you before. And I go, I don't really care about the people who've never heard of me before. I'm really grateful for the people who are here. And you know, a great example of how this is, you know, me putting my money where my mouth is with that is, is the desire map is coming out to the whole world. It's January 1 public in store pub date. And I wrestled with my publisher to be allowed to come out with it in December on my site on my, on my own so on December 3 when we launched it for a month it was the only place you could get it was with through me. Well, of course it's somewhat self serving because December is a great sales month. It's Christmas. But I know that like the people who are desire mapping, who helped me get where I am, who are asking for more want this in December. Nobody wants their day planner in January they want it now. So I pushed to have that happen. And I try and give them my stuff before anybody and let them know what's coming for anybody else. So always serve the original people first and foremost. And then, you know, they become your ambassadors and people come along but I'm focused on the family. And I will, of course, I want to grow but friends first. Well, you're speaking my language. I mean, I wrote a book called the small army strategy, which is all about that. I just, you know, I mean, I, somebody asked me is like, you know, what about people? I love that you brought up. You don't care about the people who've never heard of you. And I think that we get so obsessed with trying to find people who've never heard of us. And I have found the more that I focus on the people who are already here and do everything I can to just overwhelm them with joy and delight them. They go and get other people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'm going to ask you a few listener questions and then we'll wrap things up. And of them, I think a couple of them are actually really good. One is actually how your definition of success has changed over time. And that actually is a useful one. Okay. Well, it's easy. It's all about how I feel. Yeah. So it's, it is. It's the stuff I'm on the soapbox about right now. It's. I want to experience my core desired feelings and I've gotten clear. I kind of had a hint about this in the beginning of my journey that I was about relationships, but I am clear than ever that it is all about relationships. Yeah. So one other question from somebody who's a very important relationship in my life, my book editor, Carolyn Messery, asks, how does she combine being a total badass with being introverted and divinely feminine and what happens when it gets off balance. Well, being introverted and divinely feminine is bad, bad. Listen, and I'm not joking, actually, because to be, to, to, to be divinely feminine in a business setting is counter culture, sometimes, to say, Oh, everybody, hold on, hold on, hold on. How do we all feel without that right now. That makes people go, what? You're a little bit, you're a little bit crazy. When I say, you know, I don't want to do that because that would make me feel sad. Like, are you going to base that big financial decision on feelings and I go, yeah. And does it get off balance? Yeah, I'll tell you when it gets back off balance. There's stuff that I've written that I look at and I go, I cannot believe I said that. And I cringe. And this is one of the reasons I don't listen to interviews that I've done. I don't watch myself nothing. I can't, I can't, I can't do it. And usually the cringe factor for me, other than I go, I can't believe I wear that, wear that, is when I've been overly aggressive or too pushy. I'm too badass. And it's usually driven by wanting. It's, it's a, I'm going to push to get what I want. And I'm done. Done with that. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's a habit. I've got to unlearn. But I want to, I just want to glow. I just want to shine and see what shows up. And I want to trust in life with my whole being and not fucking orchestrate or strategize. I mean, I, I will always be a business strategist. Like I love that game, but yeah, I just want to just be myself and, and, and expect the best. Awesome. Well, I can't think of a better way to wrap up our conversation. Danielle, it has been my absolute pleasure to bring you back to our show for a fourth time and to have you be inaugural guest for our new name, the unmistakable creative. I think you really embody that in so many ways. And it has been, you know, just, thank you so much for, for joining us and sharing some of our insights, your insights with our listeners. Hey, I have something to say about why you're a great interviewer. Can we close with that? Well, I mean, clearly, I hope it's clear and obvious to everybody. I mean, you have a talent. An engaged listener. So yeah, I think for what I, you know, my experience of you is this is, this isn't a learned thing. I mean, of course you get better and better, but you have mentioned in this interview, how long have we been talking an hour, whatever. You've mentioned like at least five or six guests that have been past guests of yours. And to me, that is like this indication of like, it feels like family. It feels like you were really present when it went down. I just think that's a very special thing and you do it without, you're not named dropping about it, you know, like sometimes Larry King is like, well, when I talk to Barbara Streisand. But yeah, you're really, you're really there and you're truly appreciative and that's awesome. So thank you. Thank you. Well, I think that makes a perfect way to close up. And for those of you guys listening, as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we got a whole new website by the time you guys are listening to this come and visit the unmistakable or unmistakable creative.com and goofy little story. I bought the three wrong domain names and misspelled it the first few times, but that's neither here nor there. So I hope you guys have enjoyed it. And I think Danielle is a fantastic way to start off 2014 and we'll close the show with that. Thanks for listening in on another candid conversation at the unmistakable creative embrace your inner misfit, express your creative voice, and remember the goal isn't to live forever, but to create something that will. [MUSIC] Are you interested in the evolution of generative AI? Hear perspectives from thought leaders like AWS Deputy CSO, Vice President and Distinguished Engineer Paul Vixie. We've barely seen 1% of what will be possible. 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Have you ever felt a twinge of worry about AI taking over your job or diluting your creativity? Well, what if you could turn that fear into creative fuel? We've just published an amazing new ebook called "The Four Keys to Success in an AI world" and this is more than just a guide. It's a deep exploration into the human skills that AI can't touch. The skills that are essential for standing out and thriving no matter how much technology evolved. We're talking about real differentiators here like creativity, emotional intelligence, critical thinking and much more. Inside you'll find actionable insights and strategies to develop these skills, whether you're a creative person, a business person or just simply someone who loves personal development. This isn't a story about tech taking over. It's a story of human creativity thriving alongside AI. Picture this AI as your creative co-pilot not just as a tool but a collaborator that enhances your unique human skills. 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Why bar tending is a course in learning about people
The power of tribes and promoting other people
Dealing with Your Ego and Overcoming The Impostor Complex
Looking at your Life and Business in Chapters
Why Great Customer Service is a Form of Consciousness
An Interesting look at Your Elevator Speech
The Reason You Should Avoid Grandiosity
Why We Must Leave Space for Resonance and Connection
How Selling Things You Don’t Care About can be Life Changing
Learning When and How to Say No to Things
How to be a Self Promoter Through Effective Story Telling
Why Behind the Scenes Stuff Appeals to Your Readers
An Early Look at Danielle Laporte’s Magazine
How Doing Things for Artistic Reasons Leads to Other Things
Looking at Your Work Through the Lens of a Publisher
Why Danielle is Primarily Concerned with her Existing Fans
How Danielle Currently Defines Her Success