The podcast you're about to listen to is part of the Professional Casual Network. To find more podcasts like this, please check out professionalcasual.com. Uh, yeah, I'll have a large extra butter popcorn and she'll have snow caps. Really? Snow caps? They taste like cardboard. Okay. Come on, it's time for you to listen to. [Music] [Music] That's how I... Just 'cause you may sound like a robot doesn't mean you have to actually sound like a robot. I mean, that's how I felt about the watch of the movie was just to get it over with, so... Really? Come on. Brothers, sisters, gender resistors. I feel like I'm gonna be up to that today. [Laughter] I have to start this episode off with an apology. Do you have the music? Hold on. Let me see if I can just kill my own acapella. Do you want me to put the music? Hold on. I got here. Oh, do you? Oh, that one. Oh, okay. I don't have that one. Okay, okay. I am so sorry. Please accept my apologies. Joy, I tell you an apology. Okay. I think regularly on this show we've shown you for being a Batman fan. Not because it's necessarily justified, but because it's very specifically only Ron and I. [Laughter] That's fair. We watched the Dark Knight. Yep. From 2008. From 2008. And now I have not seen this movie since probably 2008. Okay. And I have for... I really tried to go into it being like, all right, forget all the memes, forget all the jokes, forget all the back, all the other stuff. Joey, from the bottom of my heart, I get it. I kind of get now why you like Batman. I was talking to a friend who explained it to me a little more clearly and said, quote, you have to look at Batman in the bat verse like it's Warhammer 40K. There are no good guys. Nobody just thinks they're the good guy for their own justifiable cause. Which is something we have talked about, but it wasn't a show of women. One very specific scene in this movie where I went, oh yeah, they're all gigantic pieces of shit. Don't wonder Joey likes them so much. He inherently loves flawed characters. This is nothing but an endless tragedy of terrible people doing terrible things with the belief that it is a just cause for doing it. You're not wrong. And then when I realized that, I actually really liked this movie. I forgot how much I love this movie. So did yes. All right, well then it looks like I'll be on my own on that one. This was, I loved it when it came out, but did I, I missed a lot of the fit in it that like, they really do hone in like that kind of a piece of shit and is actually realizing that a lot of the shit that he was existence is like the whole fucking problem. Yeah. And they don't. Yeah. Millionaires existing is the problem. Billionaires existing is the problem. You're not wrong on that one either. Well, and I think what's really smart of like the realization in this movie is the only difference that separates bat from Spider-Man is the money. They're the same character with the same background and same flawed ideas. This idea that they had this canon event that drastically changed who they were as a person and they believe that they needed to be better and therefore has continually gone despite the fact that if they just stopped doing the thing more likely than not, a lot of the fucking problems would go away and they inherently are helplessly sacrificing their own life. I think he's fully right here. But he's not. They're only endlessly sacrificing their own happiness in life because they believe in this even this thing that is essentially now bigger than them as a whole. The only difference between Spider-Man and Batman in this case is that fucking Spider-Man is for the streets. He what he is just a poor college. But also, Spider-Man has superpowers. Okay. It's not. But it's not that. Okay. So that makes him inherently better than Batman. But also, you know, Spider-Man doesn't have. Oh, he's lost Joey. No, we're still recording. Okay. Spider-Man, right? His rogues gallery isn't because he spends all of his money trying to be a super hero and then everybody else went poor. All right. If Batman has the ability to stop crime on this level up here, but he prefers to do it on this level because he likes beating up poor people. If Spider-Man had the money to do that from the get-go, he would have been in a whole different situation. Yeah. But in the comics, Spider-Man did have an opportunity when he was working for Horizon, where he was making things that could better the cops in New York to actually take care of these bad guys. And he didn't. He made his suit technology better. First off, 1-3-1-2. Don't trust cops with anything that- But you know what being done- This thing. The Dark Knight, this movie specifically, is 1-3-1-2. You cannot fucking trust anybody. Yeah. Because- and it's- it is not- this is a great representation and example of like, you can't trust anybody, but how can you exploit the fact that you cannot trust anybody? That's what this entire movie is. Nobody is a good person in this. Gordon? Not a good person. He knows that he's got people on the inside that are- that are fucking everything up. And he's trying to exploit that for the best of his use. He uses Batman because Batman is able to get around all the jurisdiction that they can't deal with. Right? They have all the- if- because inherently, Gordon is a good guy. He wants to follow the law and he wants to follow the rules, so he's going to find somebody else who can do it. He will look the other way while Batman bends the rules or even breaks the rules. Exactly. Yeah. And in this, Harvey is exactly the same thing. He even says it himself. He's like, you know, he's like, well, I think it's when they're having dinner, when Bruce shows up and they're talking about like, how great Batman is and Bruce is kind of playing devil's advocate here a little bit with the Russian ballerina. Yeah. It's like, you know, Den says himself, it's like, if it wasn't for him, all of our fucking cases would not even exist right now. All of my, you know, successful putting people away. But I think we- I think we also, in general, say that Batman typically goes after poor people and that's the whole issue. Is he though? No, it's because he's a cop. But he is a cop, but you literally just said that he was beating up poor people. Yeah. That's the difference between him and Spider-Man. He's not though. He's tamed down ridiculously rich mafia groups and mob groups. Yeah. I don't think so. He goes after the mobs. Right. But through their little people. Yes. He's got to work his way up somehow, but he also gets it. No, he doesn't. He knows the mall. He's got all the connections because he's Bruce Wayne. He knows exactly which one of those motherfuckers are, you know, dirty and whatnot. He just, you know, prefers to be up on poor people. Realistically speaking, he needs to be able to conserve the top people so that he can, those people can be brought to justice because you can't just inherit now granted. I don't agree with how he does it. And often it blows up in his fucking face, which is kind of the realization that he has in this movie. Actually, I think it blew up in Harvey's face this time, but yeah, we'll get to that. But no, you are right, Chuck, because he'd be in there. No, no, no, no about that. Yeah, he takes out the thugs. He has to work over the thugs to get the leverage that the DA would need, that debt would need on the big fish, on Moroni, on the combo, Michael Jair White's character, like on all of these big fish. Yeah, it's fun. The guy who plays, is it Marconi? Am I saying that right? Yeah, and this, the Italian when the, no, Erica Robert, sorry. Yeah, okay. This is that this, he is the like one representation of this movie of like, boom, here's the cameo of like the most important person of the time that which this movie came out, because that dude was in fucking everything. He was, well, I mean, he was, I'm not gonna say a high profile actor, but he's had, he's been around. Yeah. He was very specifically, he was very specifically the guy if you needed a shitlord in your music videos. He wasn't Mariah Carey's music video. He was in the killer's music video, Mr. Brightside. He's in, there's another one that he's in, like he did this like run of like, we need like an old kind of shit lordy dude to be like the bad guy in this like music video. And he just got fucking hired for all of them for some reason. Oh, it's Marconi, but not Marconi, Marconi, sorry. Oh, Marconi, right, right, right, right, right, that's just, yeah. Yeah. I just, when I saw him, I go, oh dude, that's the guy from Mr. Brightside, holy, and then he's, he plays a, he plays a Mariah Carey's, we belong together in the song, we belong together. He plays the like kind of shitty rich husband that she runs away from that she lives at the altar. Oh my God, I just remember that. Anyway. Yeah. So there, there you go. There's no little working though. Like I'm having a look at his IDB. And he's got like 30 projects in 2024. No, like 40 projects in 2024 alone already, dude, dude works. 2023 has got a bunch like, like, I'm, I'm trying to scroll back down to 2008 and this take me a minute because he is in, and you know, you know, those are all just passion projects because he's got Mariah Carey fucked money, you know what I mean? Like the dude made all of his money in 2008 and now he can just do whatever he wants. So he does all these like crazy projects. There's one hundred something. Did you call it Mariah Carey fuck money? Yeah. It's Mariah Carey fuck money. He got paid like no joke, like multiple millions of dollars to do that like one three minute video. Damn. I think I'm in the wrong line of business man. Yeah. He, he like drives an Aston Martin. I just need to look like a rich asshole and then I can get away at, you know, you can do it. I believe. Yeah. I feel like you have very rich asshole potential. Oh, I'm a very good actor. Yeah. You'd be fine. You're gonna have to shave though, which is, which is inherently terrifying. So we've seen it's not the, it's a little terrifying. What do you see shaped me? I don't want to play on shaving anytime soon, but I don't want to ask you that. I actually, I don't even remember what Joyce Chin looks like come to think of it. I mean, last time I shaved it all off was eight years ago or so. Yeah. It's been a long time. I dyed it for, I did it green for St. Patrick's Day and then shaved it off the next day because I'd watches everywhere. It didn't cut the gas back when the beard was actually like dark and I didn't have all the gray. So I remember that either kind of think of it. All gray or all the dark. Not having all the gray. Yeah. That's, you know, kids do that to you. That is very true. Happy Father's Day, by the way. You too. Specifically. Well, thank you. At, at time of recording, it is Father's Day. Shout out to my dad, Stone Cold Steve Austin, the only man who actually raised me. So, so I sent a text message to my siblings and it was a picture of a Ouija board and I said, Hey, while I got dead on the line, does anybody want to say anything? It's only my little sister responded. Okay, I kind of appreciate that. That's a good joke. Uh, anyway. That's what I thought. Yeah. That was like. He sent me that's the other day and I'm like, yeah, Ouija boards is the one thing I don't fuck with. Yeah. I'm good, sir. Yeah. Well, demons often are like bears. Uh, they're really, you'd rather be in the woods with those than men. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Anyway, there is my long winded rant, uh, that monologue. I mean, so this movie, I, I watched this in theory. Joey appreciates that because you're actually on his side this time. There is that. I'm actually going to shoot on this move for the next like 45 minutes, but yeah, no, this is. Yeah. And I appreciate that. But like this is quintessentially one of the best Batman movies out there, like any Batman and we'll agree to that. It's a low bar though. So that's not hard to do consider what we got before. Like we had Batman begins, which was an excellent movie. This one is, I mean, it was up on our, I don't know where we're at, but I hear you, I hear you on this. And I would say this was the T two level of like, this is how you do a sequel. Yes. And act like it's, it's really good because like we didn't, there was really hardly any origin callbacks in this. Like it was all like, I will say that was nice. Not having to watch his parents die again. Yeah. I mean, we didn't. I was going to say we had, they would have to pay a lot to put Snoopy back in. So it's like, it's not really worth it for him. Of course, head over to our T public starring it, the, the murderous Joe Cool T-shirt. Love it. Very good. Do it. Um, but this is a movie that kind of like, so obviously the elephant in the room here is Heath Ledger's Joker. When he was cast. Oh, I forgot that two played Joker. Really? No, I'm fucking with you. Of course. I'm like, like people were like Heath Ledger, he is that like teenage heartthrob. How is he going to be Joker? Like this is going to be terrible. And lest people forgot when Michael Keaton was cast as Batman, he was a comedic actor. And in 1989, he became, he became Batman. So like Heath Ledger's Joker was God, a highlight of this movie loved him as Joker. Yeah, I think, I think he's, I think he was this generation's Joker. 100. Like, yeah, like, I think, I remember thinking, he, his portrayal of Joker works really well for the universe that they're trying to, which was a more realistic, air quotes, realistic feel. Like, more dark feel, like more edgy. Yeah. I, I really had to like fight my brain from like falling into like the reason why I end up not liking the Heath Ledger Joker with everybody who then like, I am the Joker. Like his character and his persona, I don't know what's going on right now. Yeah. Like, do you all feel earlier or lost around now? We'll leave you later. Yeah. Well. Hope. And the idea that he's, um, this like weird Ed, Ed Lorde, like, dude who just wants to commit chaos and all this stuff, and it's like, every single person who was like a fan of the Joker was like, just a fucking burnout who was just looking for an excuse to like believe in saying it. Like, I am the Joker. I'm the, I'm, you know, I am chaos. But it's like, dude, you can't even show up to work on time, like shut the fuck up. That's why they're chaos. No, you're right. No, not showing up to work on time is like, that's not chaos. Showing up to work on time and then proceeding to just fuck everything up. That's chaos. At least show up on time. That's true. If you watch the movie, he is always on time. He is always where he exactly needs to be because he is secretly a fucking mastermind. Like had a plan for the plan, you know, that he's got like, uh, um, but that's the funny thing. He had plans on plans, although he was saying, I don't plan anything really though. He actually does plan stuff and I'll just do it because there's a certain, there's a certain scene at the end that I learned and I'm to be that we can talk about later. But yeah, no, this, he lies, I mean, that's also Joker, like he, that's how he does. He plans stuff. He is chaos. He lies. He's just crazy. And that's the whole thing, his character, he inherently lies to keep everybody from actually figuring out what he's thinking, which is inherently the most smart, is the smartest thing he does in this entire movie. And I remember when I, so I first, I saw this movie in theaters and I saw it with the group of, uh, adults I shouldn't have been hanging out with when I was like, they're all man crew. Yeah. They were huge Batman fans, like Joey levels of like Batman fans. And there was a Joe in that level of people. I mean, they're fandom specifically. That's okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you can tell I'm not just a Batman fan, I have more, I have more knowledge of Batman. Well, I was saying, I was saying as far as, cause the way the truck makes them out to be, they're not very, um, good people. It wasn't that they weren't good that regardless. Okay. Um, it wasn't that they were good people. There was just some questionable things that I've unpacked during travel. Anyway, um, the, the, the two things that they got mad about is one, the fact that Joker constantly changed his story of how he got his scars, which like, that's the whole fucking point. Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole point is that he's, is that you're not. We are only, we are the ones who find out that he's lying about every time that he tells it cause he tells the story to a different group every time. Right. He also tells it. He tells it differently every time. Right. He can. Right. And then two, um, was the fact that the face paint comes off, but that's because it's realistically face painting this one, like not, you know, him being standard on, right. They were hard on it. Like, that's, that was, okay. That's kind of, that's, I actually, I like that because it just shows, I actually like that part too. Yeah. Like he, he's psychotic enough to always put the face paint back on when he was with a dent in the hospital. You see that the white on his hands, like he had just put like a fresh coat on. Yeah. More importantly, I have a theory on his scars. Yeah. He was actually going to tell Batman that the real reason he got his scars, they, they aren't real scars. It's, it's, it's just latex, uh, uh, prosthetics, not damn you. Okay. Um, I, they're part of me that would have loved the idea that even though it's still like faith paint, he has to put makeup on over top of it when he wants to be like looking normal. Like he's dead fucking crazy, which, um, who was it that did that? Well, yeah. No, cause what was it? Jack Nixon's. Yeah. Because he had to because his face was vain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they went more comic book accurate with that version of Joker, uh, well accurate at the time. They really didn't know his origin back then. Um, we've since got as somewhat of an origin a, in the years last couple of years. Um, yeah, no, uh, yeah, Joker, I, I, I just, I know Heath Ledger was according to all of the IMDB stuff, according to people, um, who have talked about him, obviously after the fact, uh, like David, that's not Jim, you know, we see him, a, this is his second role, uh, ever acting and he's the one guy in the, that gets captured in the police outfit at the parade, um, that is with Joker. He's willing to get shot and captured and tortured by the creepy, what can do to the dark hair? Yes. Uh, he was on a last podcast and left episode a few months back and he was talking about Heath Ledger and he was just like when he came in to, uh, onto set and was, you know, just being himself, he was, he's a wonderful guy. And then as soon as they're like, Hey, we need you on set. He's like, all right, cool. And he, he said like he just, he clicks the dial and gets in the character. He was able to just separate both like himself from the acting. I mean, he's an amazing actor. Amazing. Almost. Almost a little. Pray himself. So allegedly that was not like that was the immediate thing that everybody went to. That was like, well, this, this role was what led to his, yeah, but that's not actually what happened. It was just, it was medication, like apparently he'd been taking the sleeping meds for some time. Well, I mean, yeah, if you did the horrible things that Joker did, you'd need shit to help you sleep. So before that, it was long before that, but you, yes, that is, you're not completely wrong. One of the Olsen wins was involved. It was weird. Well, they were there. They found the, I thought that was Maggie Gyllenhaal or something like that. So then we want to talk about that Rachel. Not being the same Rachel. No, I like why they didn't just throw a, why didn't throw what throw a typical like Batman move where they just gave him a different love interest in this one and call it a day. Considering the, this whole set of movies was its own thing, I am actually happy that they kind of kept that continuity. Now, I'm, I think I liked Katie Holmes better than Maggie, but Maggie didn't do a terrible job. The, but I think the problem is, the problem is the, the, what Katie did was completely different than what Maggie did. And that I think is what I had the issue with. Yeah. Cause it wasn't the same person. Well, not only. Yes. It was like, I mean, as the character, yeah, yes, it was, it was different. That's not, I mean, not great. I think I like to Maggie better than Katie. Okay. Yeah. I just, in, in, I don't know what it was, I just like her a lot better in this movie. But this, of course, was during the height of Tom Cruise going crazy. That, but apparently she also, Katie Holmes also was in, had already accepted a role in a different movie and that, that added to the Tom Cruise being, you're not doing anything outside the south. That shit crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of crazy how we just like forgave them, who Tom Cruise, I mean, I guess we did. I mean, everybody still talks about Tom Cruise, maybe putting out movies, just like Mel Gibson, people were like, I haven't, I haven't seen a Tom Cruise movie. And a while, I think ghost protocol was the last mission impossible I seen. I haven't seen a mission impossible since the second one, so there was, you know, he did, um, there's like 35 or an hour or something, and just, dude, as tomorrow is so good. Yeah. I did like that. But like, that's all the things like Tom Cruise from how fucking scapegoated himself out of that. Well, that's Scientology for you, which I don't want to talk to, but I don't want to get, you know, flags and taking down and then ducted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So. So Abe Lincoln was actually one of the candidates for Batman, apparently, um, that was on the wall of who could be Batman. Oh, well, he was also next to Bigfoot, and I forget who the other person was. Oh, and see, which is dumb because obviously there was Bigfoot, you'd be able to see a shaggy face out at the bottom of the beard. That's just bad cop for you right there. Yeah. It's interesting to believe that Harvey Dent was Batman with his cleft, not his cleft chin, but that, I guess, yeah, like you could see Batman's chin. It doesn't have the indent. No, he is prosthetic. He puts a prosthetic on a mask on, it just moves down around like a chin strap. Um, I thought that was a list of things that also aren't really real. It was like what they were trying to do because it was like two things that weren't real. It was something. And then Bigfoot, but then there was Abe Lincoln, I was like, fuck, did Abe, Abe Lincoln wasn't real? Wait, hold on. What? No. Elvis, Elvis and the Sasquatch. Yeah. Which, I mean, they got banned Sasquatch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it was. That's what it was. I mean, I appreciate it. They were trying to have fun. Oh, I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah, but then we get those two who are obviously the bad cops on the force. And yes, I know Ron. All the cops are bad. All right. Look, I didn't have to tell you this time because the see the fact that those two cops are on the force, just the rest of them are bad because if they weren't bad, then they would get rid of the bad elements in the precinct. Yeah. But like it's, they're all bad. It just depends on which bad they're a part of. It just seems like everybody had people on the inside. But maybe not like, but the cops weren't like one group of cops worked for one guy, another group of cops worked for another guy, like kind of thing. It was weird. Yeah. But it's like in it's how they separate for their softball teams. Yeah. Okay. I'll say, I know we get that in the Batman where some of the cops are specifically working for about Coney, I think some for Maroney, I could be wrong on that one. Yeah. But yeah. We're working for Oscar Meyer, Bologna. Anyway. I ended up with an Oney. I figured they'd fit in. So I didn't want to bring up there. There's a at the party for Harvey Dent when Joker shows up. There's one guy. Batman just knocks his ass out instead of talking to him like a normal person. Yeah. Choke him out and just throws him in a closet because he knew because he knew he wasn't going to go. No, that's not true. That's not true. He did it because he didn't like the fact that Harvey was dating his girl for ex girlfriend. I mean, he he just used it being for his safety as an excuse. Maybe. But in that scene, when Joker shows up, there is one guy in particular that he like threatens. It's older, gentlemen, Bob, you know, I think he's got like the, just a strap of hair around. Yeah. More shy. Yeah. There we go. That guy. The one that he says reminds him of his dad. Yep. Yeah. Okay. He is in. Actually, people are just bad. No. He is in every movie that Batman is in. Because in real life, he has got the largest collection of Batman comics known to man. So interesting. He gets, I'm not going to say special privilege, but if you were to go back into, I want to say it starts around Batman forever. You'll find them there. So not every Batman movie that Robin, well, I have to, I don't remember. Well, you said every Batman movie he's been in and then you, every movie that Batman was in, he was in is what you said. And then you. I didn't say that. Got it. Well, that's it. Go back and listen. Because that's what you said. This, this just for their purpose that Batman returns, it's not the real Batman. Therefore, they're not really good movies. I'm not going to disagree with that. Anyway, I just thought that was funny, because I know he's, because I know he's like in BBS. He's one of the centers in BBS. I know he's believe, actually, I don't remember what he is in, in dark dark houses, but he is the exit. He is the actual, like, link to all of the Batman's being canonical in the, like, multiverse, is that what you're saying? Well, he's the constant, well, maybe, look at that when we get to the flash, but that's a whole different. Yes. No, I'm glad I haven't watched that yet. I mean, we got a couple years. Yeah, I know that way. I don't have to watch it once, though. It's kind of like how I was super glad I'd never seen Catwoman until we watched it on the show, because then I never had to watch it ever again. That's fair. So, obviously, this time, 2008, we're getting these comic movies, like, I mean, Iron Man's have already come out, and we've had a couple sequels already for, like, you know, Blade and Spiderman, the next man. I saw. Hold on. I was going to bring it. Okay. What we got a new costume for Batman and this one. I did not like his house. I thought the cow looked too, like, bulky, especially when you, like, you look straight on it. It looked like he had no nose. And then his head was, like, super wide. Really? Yeah. I mean, like, well, because, okay, yeah, I actually was back out of the driveway, so he needed his helmet fix. Yeah, that was the excuse. That was good. Yo, he does. They do a really bad job in this of, like, like Bruce and Lucius, like, acting like they just, like, they're not going to acknowledge that Bruce is Batman. Like, they just literally on the wall and they just, yeah, they side swipe, side step at every single time. Yeah. Yeah. It's got sonar just, like, a submarine. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, but then he's just like, well, you know, I mean, I knew suit. Yeah, no problem. We can do that. And then literally puts the fucking bats on it and it's just like, okay, if you're not supposed to know, or if you're supposed to pretend like you don't know, the trick is to also, like, not continually do the shit that's makes it so unbelievably blatantly clear. Well, I did, however, enjoy the guy who tries to blackmail, uh, that was funny, where he was like, where he, he was like, you don't think we fucking realize that this gigantic tank that we funded to build is driving around the fucking streets. Like, I really, I kind of, it was like, yeah, how do, how do people blame man or not relay or Wayne enterprises, not realize half this because this goes back to my theory and Lucius Fox was the only one in the R&D department that goes back to my theory that they actually just pay Batman just pays the city to let him do the things that he does. And they turn that eye. Everybody knows he's Batman. Everybody knows. But they just turn a blind eye to it. So that Reese, who was that guy also, according to IDB, uh, he apparently was a, um, a, uh, substitute allegedly for, uh, Edward Nigma, because if you say Mr. Reese, Mr. E's, Mr. E's. Yeah. Mr. E's. Yeah, I get it. Um, but he was brought in. You know, he was brought in for the, the deal with Lao and Fox wanted him to look over Lao's books to make sure everything is, you know, above board. Yeah, sure. He took the initiative to look at the Wayne books and was like, there's something fishy here, but I also love that scene where he basically blatantly calls out, uh, or Fox calls out Reese and it's like, yeah, you, you really get a black male, the guy who beats up criminals with his bare hands. Look, dude, you're about to be a poor person. Do you really want to chance it with Batman? But he still does because he goes on on TV. That was because of the identity of Batman. That was because the, uh, mob was threatening him though. No, I think they were. Yeah. Cause then they tried to kill him afterwards. No. No. Reese. Yeah. No, no. He's on the TV show. Joker. That was joker just being joker because he said he doesn't want Batman. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Not, not Batman. I'm sorry. Not the mob. Joker was the one that put him up to going at the identity because then Joker tells him never mind. And that's why he's going to have him killed. Wait, what? Yeah. He's one of the people that, uh, when they capture, uh, uh, Rachel and, um, um, Harvey. Harvey. And they kill the judge and they kill, um, the commissioner. Yeah. Yeah. He was one of the people that they went after because that's where, um, uh, Gordon went afterwards with the TV show guy and then they have being on the bus that the Joker, uh, uh, hi, Jax. I think I fell asleep in this movie. I'm just making shit up, but it sounded good. Fuck. I hate you sometimes. Come on, it was good. Admit it. No. You have me very confused. Exactly. Um, yeah. I mean, the whole reason why Joker wants him dead was because realistically he doesn't want to know who Batman is. Right? Isn't that the whole point? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he was by really revealing and then he makes the phone call. Yeah. Hey, just you, if he's not dead within the hour, I think he, no, it wasn't a, no, yeah, it was. He's like, if Reese is not dead within the hour, I'm going to go attack. Uh, a blow up hospital. I'm going to go share below in a hospital. Yeah. Uh, speaking. I was right. What did I call you? Um, did you, in your research, did you find the, I always heard this. I just didn't know it was true or not. So I kept looking because I was looking for that specifically, uh, there was like, I got to about 300 items of IMDB and I'm like, I can't look anymore. This way too much. But I am 100% positive. That is true with Heath Ledger when he's leaving the hospital. Yeah. Um, because I, I mean, I've always heard it as well, but he also heard an actor. So you know, when he's walking out of the hospital, he, he hits the trigger. It starts blowing up and then it stops and he's like, he's, he pauses. He starts hitting the trigger a couple of times. Yeah. Or whatever, uh, that's unscripted, like, really awesome, because they, they had like. No, I'm sorry, I froze up there, um, the, the whole thing was like, they had told like Ledger, like, you know, paste it out, count the explosion and so like that. And I guess the, the actual detonations were off for something. Yeah. So you just like had to ad lib there for like a few seconds and so he's like flicking the button because he thinks he's going to do something and then all of them start going off and he realizes he's in the wrong spot. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Then he needed to start moving. It was really funny. Yeah. Yeah. I have always heard that. Um, I just couldn't, I never really found anything where like he talked about it or anything like that. I just, that's what I've always heard is the story. Uh, another ad lib that he did when he's in jail and, uh, Gordon gets, you know, rock is told he's commissioner, uh, him clapping in like a sarcastic rhythm. That was another ad lib that they did. And it just worked. Interesting. Um, there was a couple of more and I can't remember exactly what, oh, oh the, when he's talking to Harvey, um, he in the hospital, he Harvey like, he, Joker comes at him and Harvey like throws up his hands to like try and protect himself and Joker and he grabs the hands and they just kind of tussle a little bit. Like that was another ad lib that they just kind of pieced in there. So like those, those are a few different ones in here, um, Interesting. The speaking of Joker, that opening scene, love that opening scene, uh, the bank. Okay. Except for the fact that they, the other bus had to have seen him pull out of there, right? That is true. Okay. That's weird. And they saw the police go by and they have the radios in their, uh, buses. Yes. How did nobody ever get, uh, how did nobody ever let anybody know that, you know, that was how he was those, those radios, are they, can they get a police channel on there? Yeah. It's a CB. Yeah. Yeah. The police channel, I guess they can turn it to, they can, they can do it well enough to turn in people's license plate numbers when they pass them and they have their signs out. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Before they had cameras on them. Yeah. I believe the theory is that the bus before and the bus after was actually empty. And so it was just part of a line and the drivers actually for, um, ah, I got you. I mean, that was why there was a say, um, I was supposed to shoot the bus driver. He didn't shoot the bus driver when he came into the, um, well, I know, like that would make sense why that line of buses is like the decoy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That actually, I like that. Cause like it's even perfectly spaced out for him to be able to pull into it. That's true. Which would make me see that it's all like, it's all part of the guide, all part of the plan. Yeah. I will say towards the end of the movie, I did start kind of making fun of the, everyone makes fun of, uh, of like bat voice. Man, his Joker voice after a while just started to great on you. Yeah. When he's like, when he's trying to, cause there's moments where he's like serious and the voice kind of like, I get that's part of the character, right? Mm hmm. Cause it's only like when he's dealing with Batman, does he like kind of not do the voice as much anymore? But when he's like really monologuing, it's just like, dude, shot, like, okay. So the reason why he kept like liking his lips was because the prosthetics were bothering him. Well, with that, it was bothering him. He was making sure that they wouldn't fall off. And so yeah, because it was all part of his act, it became a tick for a Joker. Yeah. And it kind of worked because Joker's scars were prosthetics, just like, uh, he fledgers. Anyway, I said it on the show, it's canon. Yeah. Yeah. And that truck said Batman sucks. So that came in too. I didn't see he sucks. And I just said he's just equally as bad of a person as Batman is. I think it was my point either way. And pull. I heard sucks. Oh, so, oh, so poor people suck, Joey, is that what you're saying? I mean, that's why he's Batman's his favorite. That's true. That makes sense. He aspires to be right. I mean, Joey does live in the richest neighborhood in Fort Wayne. So I would say that in the richest area code, I'm sorry, not neighborhood area code. Are you the Batman of Fort Wayne, Indiana? Well, you're saying you ironically, both my parents are dead. So more money. More money. All right. So importantly, Chuck, where can they give Joey money at? Listen, if you want Joey to become the vigilante, he always deserves to be head over to patreon.com and hit that 301 tier that specifically supports this show, puts money in Joey's pocket so he can buy real armor and not run around in hockey gear anymore because it was it was noted that is the big difference that's the difference between them and him is the hockey gear specific in nothing else. So we need to get Joey a real life actual Batman suit. That's true. We do. Because I can't lose my best friend guys. That's true. Especially. Is that you? Also something. Yeah. Joey also will not use guns. So which by the way, he just bends the gun barrel like it was nothing. And he had a clamped foot in his hand. He was using one of those things and working as wrist muscles. And it just he worked it so often that he could just bend a barrel. It's fine. I mean, that is very outrageous. I will give you that. But he did. They did show him having some like device on his hands. I like the no, no, no, I like the grip idea better, like just muscle grip, but then links the that this that the the theory of a can psycho is just a multiverse Batman because he just constantly does handscreens thing in that movie. So well, we've had all the shows and now it's canon is there is there is a very weird Reddit link that I found that like tries to connect American psycho to the Batman universe and how it is one of the multiverses where Bruce Wayne goes bad. It's very strange. But also I kind of like it though, I kind of like it and I got a lie. They just kind of like threw some spaghetti at a wall and hope that it's stuck. But I mean, specifically at least one strand because Chuck just brought it up. That's true. I can't if I just, you know, send it through an AI and had it just write the script for us and we just read it over on Patreon of American saying back that'd be kind of fun. I mean, I like a list of them and then one day we'll just do it. Let's start. Yeah. That's good. I mean, very legitimately I hate AI, but I like the idea. Yeah. Um, which I mean, the whole point is that is to show how bad it's going to be. Oh, yeah. And how confer generated things are not good. It's so much fun. What would you guys think of the bike? I hate it. Very, very impractical. I hated it as much as I hated the tumbler or rumbler or whatever the fuck that thing is called. Tumbler. It's a bad mobile, actually, and it's a bad mobile, but well, they didn't actually say bad mobile. They actually do call it tumbler. Well, yeah, because calling it the bamobile just sounds fucking stupid, Joey. It's done. Yeah, I mean, then what's next, like batter rings, a bat cave, the bat belt, the bat signal, the arc repellent. Yeah. Like we're even doing. Hey, that worked great for Adam West and Batman 66. It did. It got the truck off his leg. Yeah, he happened to have it on his belt for the perfect situation. Well, he is Batman. Is that is that what is the is the utility belt really just a plot device? Is that all? Oh, yeah. 100%. It always was. And now I know that they have streamlines, especially in the comics, like the devices he needs, but it's like he has maybe 10 that are like the common, like the battering, the pellets, the spoken aids, like stuff like that in like the first, like, I don't know, five pouches on each side. And then the back, I think is like he'll have the grappling hook somewhere, but like the other pouches are like specifically designed for a carry is going up against it is kind of interesting. We never like until he needs it. Do we see the grappling hook attached to him or that sticky gun explosive thing that he shoots? Yeah. The that gun just pops out. Oh, he's what it is. He keeps it in the small of his back underneath the cape. Is that where he gives it? I don't know. I mean, I mean, there's already one other place I could think of him keeping it and it'd be hard to do in that suit. So, I don't know, man, it does it did collapse on itself. It was a concealed weapon. So that's true. He just went right up in there. Um, actually, let's talk about how, um, even though Batman says he doesn't kill, he definitely murdered that dog. No, no, because joker, so we see the dogs later on with joker. I don't know. I would like to, I would like to say I watched him fling that dog and I went, Oh, that better be enjoyed his kill account. Like the dogs alive because he's not the same dog that guy's gimmick was he had hungry dogs. He only had more than two. No. He had three. Yeah. And there were only two with the joker. No, there were three with joker. Then there were four before that because he'd only killed that dog. Are you sure they were the same dogs? Yes. Because he took him from the, the one guy, but that doesn't mean they were the same dogs. You know, easy. You just get a rottweiler in New York City. It's not New York City. He's got them sitting. Yeah. That's why I meant it. Detroit. No, not the kill count, not the same dog. Well, I counted it as both animal cruelty and hero kills. So it's on our bingo, the hero kills is when he is driving the double shit up, well, that, but he's driving the car, the, the, was it the, the semi or that dumps your jump truck and he gets the top. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I put it all there for the cars. Speaking of all the cars, like he's blowing cars up in that bike and there's two kids in the car just like sitting there. He could have easily killed those kids that the cars that he was blowing up were full of people too, Joey. No, no, cause there was a parking lot. Yeah. Was it though friendly, friendly reminder. He's not killing them. He's just putting them into the bed. He, he, when he flung that pooch, he just said, I have one rule. No, no, he'd pop me. Don't you go to see me in your cage? You guys want to talk about two faces Mr. Tashay. I like, I so two faces, like my favorite, like one of my favorite Batman villains, it's probably number two, but not in this movie, not in this movie. I hated dense whole, like he, his whole persona in this was just this cheesy, like, I couldn't stand when he had talking lines because it felt like, like, they just didn't know how to give him a personality. So they just didn't. No, see, that's the thing though. His personality was hidden because as he's talking with Gordon later on, or, or later on the movie, when he was back in internal affairs, he was a two face. He would like, say what he wanted to say in front of the people and then turn around and, and fuck him over. So like, he had that, like, I'm going to say what I need to say here to get what I need to get done. And then you see him bury the kill Joker's lackey in the back of an alley because he needs to find where Rachel's at. Yeah, I feel like they could have done a little bit more in dial or something of like explaining why the cops kind of don't trust him. Because like that whole thing is like the cops don't trust dent. And that's like the one, kind of the one group that needs to trust him. Although I had the same time, not because they're all on the fix anyway. And literally dense guys away, like, so do they make reference to the fact that he was putting cops away? They do. Right. No. I guess the internal affairs, I think they might make one, like little thing about it. Like, because he wasn't, he was originally part of the internal affairs. That was like his whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. That whole thing. There was something, I think it was filmed, but then got cut. There was gonna be a reference to why dent has such a heart on, on not trusting cops. Turned out when he was younger, his dad was a cop and would beat his mom constantly. And when he got turned in, the cops just kind of looked the other way until the day that that would have been even more realistic for the movie. Well, sure. Yes, but that the one day beating went too far, killed his mom. That's why he's not a fan of cops. Right. Actually kind of wish they had kept that in because then it also kind of explains why he, you know, why he wanted to be a DA was to work for internal affairs. This movie is already two and a half hours long, which, in my opinion, still felt too long. Agreed. It was way too long. Yeah. I started getting bored. It is to watch the first half hour at the gym when you're on the treadmill and then go back to it maybe tours later and also put models together when you're watching it and the time flies by. I watched like an hour last night and then the fish is up this morning. Yeah. So yeah, I was doing block cutting while I watched it. So I would have, I definitely would have lost my attention in this movie a lot more if I didn't take break. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I wish I would have taken a break, but I wanted to get the whole movie watched last night. So I didn't have to watch any of it this morning. Yes. And yeah, yeah, there were just some parts that were just they could have definitely made shorter or cut out or they could have cut out a lot of the dense stuff. And then kept two face for the sequel, which I definitely think they should not kill them off. According to MDB, Nolan had said if he had realized he was going to be getting a third movie, he wouldn't have killed off two face. How did he not think he wasn't going to get a third movie because at this point in time it wasn't guaranteed. I mean, it's 2008 like, yes, trilogy's are out there, but like the first movie made money. This movie was the first one to make a billion dollars, but I think when he when he originally made the film, he just wasn't wasn't sure he was going to get a sequel. And then was I'm sure we'll talk about it, but Ledger was supposed to be in the third one. Not necessarily. Okay. According to MDB, there was some hints at what happened to Joker because since he is canonically the only villain that has survived the trilogy, apparently he like escaped and just like disappeared, which very Joker, but I don't know if he was going to be in rise or not. And obviously we'll never know because obviously once he's led your path, we will know we've been in it and he was in it, so you know what I mean, actually, he is technically in it. He's in he's in a quick a quick show that it's like the very beginning of the movie. They're like locking him up and he's sitting there in the cell. It's like it's like three seconds and it's a it's an old it's an old yeah, it's an old shot from from Dark Knight where they like kind of like super like put it like super pose it put all together and them like slamming the door on him and he's just there. It's like three seconds. I mean, I haven't seen Dark Knight rises since like probably the year after it came out. So it's been a while. It's been a minute for me too. Yeah. So because that I remember recently going like, oh shit, like, okay, that was a ledger. It was weird. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to look out for that. Yeah. Also, you got to look out for the Joker's cool ass magic trick. Yes. Yeah. That was like that. That did make me chuckle. Both times I've watched this movie and seen it. It's a good trick. I remember I remember seeing that and thinking like, oh, okay, shit, like this is actually going to be burl a little bit like what this is. This is not a jokey Joker anymore. Like this is, which is like, I guess because he was wearing a mask in the first, like in the bank robbery scene or some about shooting people, not nearly as bad as stabbing somebody in the face with a pencil. So here's a fun little like book thing, the novelization thing. You know how I love to read those. Yeah. Yeah. In the very beginning, when he's standing on the street corner in the novel, there's apparently an old lady who like comes up and is waiting for the crosswalk and he makes some calculations in his head on either pushing her into the street or not. And he doesn't. He just lets her be, but like that would kind of like a fun scene to see just like from the back, like him just kind of look at like, look at her and just kind of like, you can see his mind working on if he wants to just kill her for no reason or not to help add to the chaos that he is. Yeah. But I feel like that would have given it a way that that was Joker. It would have, it would have, and I'm glad that didn't put it in there. Yeah. So, yeah, that was good though. All right. Anything else? So I do want to say, so at the very end when, when Too Faced has got Gordon's son help hostage, if if Gordon knew what his son was going to become, he probably would have let him die because in the comics, James Gordon Jr. is a psychopath murderer, yeah, as most sons of cops become suck to be. Yeah. Yeah. That tracks. Yeah. Oh, also the, uh, on the fairies, another fun little thing in the IMDB, which I'll get to in a second, um, but you would get that one guard who on the, the prisoner fairy shoots his shotgun up into the fairie, like dude, you're on the lower level. What the fuck are you doing? There's people above you. Maybe they weren't. Maybe they were just trying to get attention. You know, maybe there's nobody above. Oh, you're trying to get their attention, but maybe it, maybe it was just buckshot and all it did was stuck in the ceiling and didn't actually make a, uh, it is also, I'll go ahead. I'll go ahead. Oh, you go ahead. I got, I'm, you go ahead. I was going to say the most unrealistic thing about this movie is the idea that did one boat wouldn't blow up the other boat. I, so I inherently, I inherently believe that people are bad and to save their own ass would instantly blow up the other boat. Like that's just guaranteed. Absolutely. So I was going to ask actually both of you, would you guys do that? Would you actually pull the trigger? If you were in that situation, no, I don't think I could. Oh, but I'm always looking for a reason to buy it. So like that's a little different for me, like, I would never be them pulling the trigger, not you pulling the trigger. So about that, talked earlier about Joker having plans upon plans. He had apparently had they pulled the trigger with a blue themselves up. I think it was. That is very ultimately where it made the sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Either going to both blow up or it frames the other boat. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Which is inherently more chaos. Yep. Because then you have an entire boat of people like, we did not flip that switch. But it's like, well, isn't we knew the rules? Yeah. Yeah. That's sweet. Um, let's see, that's actually, I think it's everything I got. Okay. Yeah. I will say real quick, what is your favorite scene of this movie? Like any particular clip or scene that lives forever in your brain? If you're good at something, never do it for free. That's that. I do, I do like the scene where Fox is telling Reese, like you, you're, you're trying the black male, this guy who's immediately, that was really good. The Joker when Batman is driving on the bike scene for me. Yes. And Joker is just like, run me. Come on. Yeah. And he's like shooting the gun at him. Yeah. I, for whatever reason, that leaves rent free in my brain a lot. Also more recently, only because of the meme is the part where he jumps down the big pile of money and then goes, where's the Italian? Um, but only it's only because I saw a meme that was like, tendo when they ran out of ideas. And then it's that clip of him bouncing down apparently in, uh, in Italy, he doesn't say on that version of the Italian version over there. Uh, he doesn't say where's the Italian? He says where, he says, where's Marumi? Boo. The funny, it's funny because it's slightly racist. That's what he's a cool, um, do you think the Joker uses the N word like a lot? He's inherently chaos and bad. Yeah. 100%. 100%. He does. Nah, he wouldn't. They just couldn't show it in the movie because, you know, obviously it's a movie, but, uh, he, he, he generally dropped the end bomb to, uh, spawn while he was that way, but is that what, is that what makes you're a better person than like, uh, DeCaprio? Cause like in Django and Lee, she says the N word a lot in that movie. So yeah, but that also quintered, you know, movie. So yeah, it has to be authentic and I need fleet. Yeah. Makes sense. But yeah, okay. So I guess on to the kill count, which, uh, got a kill count of 31, which is not as much as Batman. No, it's close to Batman. Batman is a kill, but it's Batman. So according to IMDB, they had both said that there was 34 kills in here. So I don't know where they're getting all that, but then also the kind of dog Joe, no dog, dog didn't die. Also it said three dogs you would take your count of 34. He didn't cut it off. Uh, they also said the kill can do the camel with one singular point on, but he did kill the camel. It was just animal cruelty. Also said that Joker killed 32 people, which is not right because Batman killed like four by himself. So I'm just saying that's true. Although did you count all the people that Batman killed as being put to sleep or as kill count? Kill count. See, even the dogs were dead. All right. Dog not dead. Um, it is also kind of interesting because like there's a lot of, there's a lot of goons that shoot another goons, but they count that all as Joker. True. Well, Joker mastermind, well, hold on. See, that one. Then it's all one kill if that's the case. It's just one. It's all part of the plan. No, I need, I need your Joker boy thing. It's all just one kill. It's all just one kill. I think it's, it's them, well, that doesn't even make sense because two face heartbeat kills like three people before. Yeah. He just starts fucking whack. He just doesn't even carry him on. He definitely like he killed Maroney's driver and he 100% Oh, that was the other one. I did miss one. I did miss one. 32. It was the dog. Yeah. No, it was the other bodyguard of Maroney's. So I always, I know that like two face whole thing is if, if he flips the coin, depending on how it lands, he does or doesn't do something, right? Yeah. If it's heads up, if it's not scarred, it's a favorable result. If it's scarred side, not favorable, favorable result. But there are times when we don't see the result. So are we supposed to believe that dent in this movie is still like not following the rule of it? I mean, because all the, of all the times that he flips and isn't supposed to kill somebody is only because it's more important that that person is alive because he needs like information or something from them. Well, because Ramirez, he was a botry to kill her, flips it, comes up heads and he just knocks her out. The one cop that took Matt, that took Maggie, took Rachel. He killed the other cop back. That came up scarred. He killed him in the bar. Yep. But now thinking that the guy that he has in the back alleyway that's Joker's goon, yeah. He was never going to shoot him because the coin was not scarred up at that point. So he was just going to keep flipping it until he got the information. Yeah. He was threatening him. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Sean, make sure I understood that. I have that coin. So I got this on DVD and it came with that coin. Oh, nice. Yes. And so I had that coin someplace, but my mom constantly, because my mom has a silver dollar from when she was born, like the date, and it looks exactly the same. Yeah, like the same year or so, it looks exactly the same almost and she constantly asks why I scratched up the back of her coin. I'm like, no, mom, that's the Harvey Dent coin. It says Gotham on it. Like, come on, mom. Jesus. Love it. Uh, Rod. Progress placement. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. I'm pretty sure. Yes. That's true. There is progress placement. We've got animal cruelty, villain monologue, talking trope, government interference, betrayal by a friend, fight for something, a hoot-o-kills, comic logic. I'm pretty sure I heard a Wilhelm scream in there and product placement. Okay. Yeah. I didn't talk about some buildings. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we didn't talk about the, uh, the seminar at the very end and, uh, Fox. Yeah. That, um, I mean, good idea of like what he was doing for it, but like, I, I, I, I, back Fox for like, yeah, if this is here, I'm out. Yeah. 100%. Cause yeah. It was a trash move. Yeah. Well, like why ultimately it's the, uh, well, so Chuck, do you have a phone in your house? No, I, I get what I, it just seems like why was that the breaking point for, uh, because Batman was going to watch him jerking off to porn on his phone. I think it was more of he bath his eyes, something that he made, that, that Fox made. Yeah. He freaks everybody's personal privacy, like he tapped into every phone and Gotham to do that. All right. All right, I guess it just, it just feels like, have you ever seen the movie, uh, Kingsman? No, I really want the first one or the third one, the first one. Or Kingsman. Not man. Yeah. Kingsman. We will be watching that eventually for the movie. Oh, no, shit. That's a cop. That's based on a comic. That's a Mark Miller comic. Oh, okay. Is it Mark Miller? I don't know. Fuck. I don't know. Fuck, I don't remember, it is a comic book movie. Cool. So we'll watch all three at some point. Interesting. But yeah, I guess I won't spoil anything for a shot for a movie that's like 15 years old. Unless I move, man. I like 10. Unless I move it off. To be fair. For 10 years, I've wanted to watch it and just never have for whatever reason. I think I have it on the shelf. You just have to come over and watch some time, I guess. I can also just give you my like movies anywhere or Amazon and you can watch on there. All right. Spot, keep continuing. Harvey didn't look fucking terrible. 100% of the time. That's because you've never seen the inside of somebody before, apparently. That's true. It didn't, the eyeball looked real bad. Yeah. The eyeball. It typically looked really bad. Also, his eyeball would not be in that good of condition still. And it would not have stayed in his head. Yeah. That was it would have dried out and not great. It's not great. Well, you absolutely would have had like crazy infection by then, like 100% especially though. Well, it wasn't even covered up in the hospital. It would have been worse enough. Yeah, he had the burn mask on, which was straight down later. But it would have been cooler if they had just left the burn mask, like do the burn masks this entire movie, like I think. And then like revealed that the, or he reveals it like at the last minute or something, but like him just running your way. He's their face off with Gordon. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it made it like, because then it's like, you know, because the idea is like everything was taken from him and it's Gordon's fault, even his face, you know, things like that. It just, I don't know, I just, it really bothered me bad. It did not hold up. And I remember, I thought I remember it being prosthetic or most of it being prosthetic, but I guess not. I guess it was a little green screen. It was all, yeah, it was all CG. Yeah. But everything else kind of was all practical effects. I know the explosions were practical effects, almost all of it was very low, isn't I believe. Or practical in some way, because I know this is, this is Nolan's whole thing was he wanted to look as well as possible. So they did a lot of practical effect and did like stage, like modeling, you know what I'm talking about? Like small scale stuff? Yeah. Like Star Wars. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's say I'm going to say three out of seven hundred and twenty eight spawn capes. Nice big number. Okay. Nice big number. There's a little by two. There you go. Yeah. It's good. Alrighty. So imagine if you get spawn finally, so we can, can we get that to us? We can't begin. Like you got first, well, I'm, I mean, I can move it up. We're not, we're actually not that close. There's a shit ton of stuff between now and, uh, we should just realistically before we start getting into the MCU, we should just watch the other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll catch the ending, the indie, like section of, I mean, we might like, because it wouldn't be a bad idea to catch the other section up. That way the other sections, at least in the early 2000s before we are done with everything else. And not in the early 90s. Yeah. Yeah. We're in 2000s for literally everything else. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Anyway. Alright. Is this a Batman movie? I think up until I, I, ooh, I think this is probably my favorite Batman movie, but. I really do love the Batman, which we'll get to in a couple of years eventually. Um, is this a Batman movie? Yes. I remember loving this movie came out. I then proceeded to hate it for a long time because everybody ruined it for me, uh, with the memes and the over like loving poker for the wrong reasons and all that shit. I think this is a great representation of what this series could do. This is a T2 level, um, sequel like they, they built on them that they did in the first one and made it better. And I think when we get to the next one, it doesn't, it also has the same effect of like rise of the machines in a lot of ways. Um, I love this movie. I kind of agreed that the helmet is a little goof, but it, I like the suit even though it's all armor. I think the idea that they took armor away and actually made it a little unsafe because he was willing to give up more, like he wanted mobility in exchange for actually being protected. And I think that was interesting. Um, I wish it kind of played off a little bit more. Um, I think Heath Ledger's Joker is phenomenal, like just across the board of a method acting level, like getting into character and stuff and Harvey Dent was not great. Uh, now I refer, I, I take the back, Harvey Dent was great. I think him playing Harvey Dent is good. It's when he becomes too faced that I didn't like, I liked, I inherently like all the hypocrisy in this movie and everybody thinking that they're a good person. I'm going to say, what do they give Batman begins? Uh, you gave it a 6.7. I'm going to give this an 8.59. I enjoyed myself the entire time I was watching it. I was reminded how much I liked it when I was a kid. The nostalgia felt good and I would happily win like my, when my nephew is old enough, like showing him this run of Christopher Nolan movies. I think he would generally enjoy him. You said you gave it a what? 8.59. 8.59. Damn. So the trilogy itself, like the trilogy, all three of these movies together, tell a really wonderful story. And I mean, when we get to dark night rises and rises has some problems and I'm, I'm vain is my favorite Batman villain. So I got, you know, when we get to that, like that's going to be, I really did enjoy Tom Hardy's performance. But again, like, like Ron said earlier, I haven't seen the movie in years. So it could be my opinion of the movie could have changed now. I'll get to it in my score, but like this still is my like top of the three for the trilogy. But I think if you remember rises being my, my takeaway was they were just trying to cram too much into it, there are some issues with that one. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So, yeah, light boy there, what you got. So I don't know, like Batman movies really don't do it for me. Like it, I, the old ones had nostalgia for me. These ones, I never really got like on the whole bandwagon of thinking they were like awesome or amazing. Like it was fun to watch the first time, but also, um, I mean, I like this one a smudge better than Batman begins, but that's because the story in this one's less convoluted than that one was, um, right back at you Joey. What the hell man? No. Shut up. You give me the finger. I was scratching myself. And then I went like that. Yes. Oh, having said that, like, I liked it better than Batman begins marginally. Um, so I'm going to give this one a five point eight, one really would I give Batman begins? It was like a three something. Wasn't it? That was a five point eight. Hey, I liked it this much better, but like I just, I don't know. I didn't like Harvey Dent's character at all. Like to face, I didn't like, I didn't like the Harvey Dent character. I was actually not a big fan of Rachel in this either, um, mostly because she again felt unnecessary. Um, I did like some parts of the Joker, but, uh, I'm not like super fan girling over here about it either. And, um, I really hate the Batman voice and it just kind of in this one, it was more grading than the last one I think, but yeah, that was another thing apparently that they like did some, uh, ADR on and made it more. Traveling, apparently, like that's like it's, it is Christian Bale going down an octave, but they're adding to it after the fact, which isn't great. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not good. I agree with you on that. I will say this. I will say this. The voice and the mask still technically does work and I get why people don't know that it's, or quotes don't know that it's him because I really would hear the voice and see that particular caliber. I cannot make this look like Christian Bale or sound like Christian Bale. Like a lot of that's just like, well, I guess I get why people don't realize this is Bruce Wayne because like, I, I cannot make this look like him because it like, he does not have his like puffy cheeks in, but when he wears like how it like pushes his cheeks forward. So like, I kind of, like, I guess I, I get it now. I mean, I do love the meme where the reason why Batman doesn't go out during the day and then you see Christian Bale with a tan line over his mouth. I guess it's kind of, this part of it. So I'm, I literally just said that I love this movie. Um, yes, there are problems. Like I said, the, it seems too long, Maggie Gyllenhol while I like her as an actress, did not like her as Rachel because it just, it's two different Rachels and it just, it felt jarring. Um, killing Too Faced at the end was mistake. I did enjoy Too Faced, um, because he is, he's, I like Too Faced as a character in general. Um, and I thought Aaron Eckhart did a wonderful job both as Harvey and as Too Faced. The story is really solid in my opinion, even though like I said, it does feel a little long. Joker, Heath Ledger's Joker is amazing and the problem is, is that people have been trying to emulate that ever since. And obviously we don't get that. You know, Jared Lotto, um, you know, it's always, you know, it's always, he wasn't trying, but people are, the bad thing is everybody was going to compare Heath Ledger to Jack Nicholson because Jack Nicholson's Joker was, oh, he was so amazing for the time. But like we said, the very beginning, this Joker is perfect for this Batman. He, uh, Jared Lotto's Joker is perfect for Ben Affleck's Batman. Well, perfect. Yeah, of course, perfect there. Um, like it fits, sort of, um, but like this Joker works with the story that's being told. You should probably edit that for now. Why? When you, where you said Jared, Lito's Joker works, the last time I rewatched Suicide Squad, I went into it with a little bit more of an open mind. And there are things that actually do work and we'll get to it when we get to Suicide Squad. Um, listen, it won it technically won an Oscar. So costumes, right? Uh, sound? Well, it sounds like it's something like, it's like one that nobody cares about. Something weird. Yeah. Either way, I gave this movie a 9.2. I love this movie. A 9.2. What? 9.2. Just 9.2. Joey, you got to use your hero. They're happy. Yeah. Um, like this is one I would watch all the time, like this is a great movie. With my opinion. Um, so that gives us a combined score of 7.87, which drops it in at number 10. Um, it actually is the same score as Superman to the Donor Cut and Casper with a 7.87 and it is now sitting just above blade, uh, blade was at 7.73. So interesting. Do I, do I like this better than I like blade? I feel like you would like, you like blade better than this. Yeah. I think I did. Yeah, I think I, I don't know, a lot of the time I think my mood and like what I'm going through in my life tends to like dictate my score a little bit more than I probably should, but I just, I don't know, just looking, looking, looking back at it. You gave play than 8.2. Okay. All right. So yeah, I guess I did like this better than blade. Yeah. I think, I think ultimately I do kind of like this better than blade. I would, I would be, I would go back and watch this before I'd probably go, if I had to pick between two movies, I might pick this over blade. That's interesting. Huh. Learning a little bit about myself today. We learn a little bit about every day for this. That's true. I would say the special effects for this is better than Blaine, but that's also a 10 year gap. That was a 10 years between those two. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Honestly, you know what it is. Bleeds outfit doesn't fit in as nice as any of the outfits in this movie because everybody was tailored in this and bleed. That's true. He got time for tailors. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cause he's poor. God damn dude. It's not poor. Blaine is not poor. It is that type of fucking technology. He's coming. He's got money. He's got crime money for sure. I like the idea of blade is just like raw, like just doing regular amounts of crime to be able to like forward his like silver dust habit. Yeah. Yeah. Alrighty. So Chuck, where can I find you online? You can find me on Instagram and TikTok. Kick out of the hood. No mean character. You can find my hobby page out of the hobby over on Instagram. No mean. Kicked. Ronald. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at good at this game. You can find my art on Instagram at GoodArtThisGame. And obviously you can find me here on this podcast. Thank you, Joey. Guys can find me on Instagram and threads at comicbookgrindown. You can email us, comicbookgrindown@gmail.com. We'll read it on the upcoming episode. We've got merch over on Redbubble and Tea Public and our song was done by Cam. So our next movie will be Star Wars episode four, A New Hope. So we'll get Jordan back. I am a little nervous to watch this. So I was going to say, like we're watching on Disney Plus, right, like we're, which is the special edition. I've got, oh, so I've, I've got the original. See, I don't have the, I don't have the actual original anymore because I have that on VHS and my little brother destroyed them. But like I've got the, this, ah, nice. Yeah. You remember when they released like the special edition and everybody was like fucking bought heard about it. And then like a bunch of years later on, we'll go to release another run of Star Wars. They just went back and took everything out that they put in and released the original cuts. And everybody was like, what the hell are you doing? This is bullshit. But they still have to be not shooting first. They changed Han shooting like three different times. Uh huh. Yeah. But not like, uh, back in, I want to say early 2000s, uh, Walmart had the original trilogy with on DVD with the special edition trilogy, like it was a, to this net, um, for each of them. And I bought each of them. I got original on DVD still, uh, plus then I also have them on Blu-ray and yeah, it's a plus. So it's amazing how the special edition will ruin the, uh, spong cake continues for for sure. Oh God. Like real bad real, we'll talk about it then there too. But I do have questions between the original cause I've never actually seen the non, like the original version. Yeah. I've only seen the special edition versions. Um, so there are, I will have questions. Well, good. We will answer all that. Next time. All right. See y'all. Bye. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this show, check out all the other great shows here at the professional casual network, like what Danny, I'll tell you on Mondays we've got the lost omens podcast, our Pathfinder two, the actual play hosted by me playing through the extinction curse AP. Also streaming on Twitch.tv slash professional casual network at seven PM Eastern time. You can check out. Oh yeah. The power phase, our Marvel crisis protocol live battle report show on Tuesdays, the podcast version of, wait, did I roll a wild, our Marvel crisis protocol povlog is available on Wednesdays alternating releases on Patreon. We have settling the Southlands, our home brew will fork actual play in the slithering a pathfinder second edition actual play. And on Thursdays live at seven PM Eastern standard time on Twitch.tv slash professional casual network. We've got wait. Did I roll a wild? Our Marvel crisis protocol povlog. 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