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Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast, that's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions applied. Come back, it's the big blue banter, New York Giants football podcast on Dan Schneider. Join us always might go snick the lotto, training game is almost here, actually it is, the rookies reported today, and starting next week, at the end of next week, I think we're going to start to get going on some practices. So it came fast, faster than usual this year. I think hard knocks play the role in that, having that excitement and today is actually when we're recording this, I'm not sure when it's going to drop, so I actually shouldn't give dates and it always tells me not to do that and he's right because we don't know where we're dropping stuff, but we have more hard knocks to go over which I'm excited for as we roll into training camp. And I'm really excited about getting into camp because that's when we're going to start to see if this team has made progress. Today, we're talking about the offensive line in our position preview. There's a lot to talk about with this group and I thought Jon Schmelt getting an amazing job interviewing, a lot of different offensive linemen. We're going to talk a lot about what we learned through those interviews because I think it's going to have a big impact on the season, but Nick, before we get there, how are you doing my friend? It's been a little while. I'm doing well, man, just working and enjoying the little bit of summer that we have left before we bleed it right into training camp and then right into the preseason and then right into the season where it is full throttle until my peers draft. Damn right. And before we get going, I want to share a quick thing just because I love these types of stories. On last Friday, I golfed with my brother at Hendrix golf course and as I walked into the golf course, I saw a guy with a giant's polo on, so I said, "Hey man, nice polo." He goes immediately, "Holy shit, Dan Schnier, what's up?" And so I just wanted to shout out Nick, listener of the podcast who we saw, we golfed right behind actually. He was him and his girlfriend or wife or fiance, I'm not sure. And after the round, we actually, me and my brother went to a bar. I think it's Michael's Ross Common House right around Hendrix golf course. And he was there too, eating with his girlfriend, right fiance, whoever she was. And it was just such a weird coincidence and it was so cool to see a listener. And then today, another one of these kind of occurrences, Nick, they literally make my day because it's just such a cool experience and feeling. Udi, who I used to play basketball with at O'Connor, all the time we used to ball at O'Connor, that's a park right around my house, grew up in West Orange, New Jersey, Nick. He just shouted me out. It's like, "Dude, craziest thing. I've been listening to your podcast, you and Nick, for years, not knowing that we used to play basketball all the time. And on Saturday, me and my boys were talking about a Big Blue Bander episode. And they're like, "Dude, you know you used to play basketball with them all the time at O'Connor." It's such a cool, small world thing, man, and just cool to know that we have the support from people like this, that we, you know, common people that we see and we play with golf, basketball, whatever it may be, Nick, so it just makes me feel good as we head into the season. Like I told them both, like, they're both very skeptical and I understand why, but I told them both. It's going to be worth it when we finally get good and the steam is like good to talk about on a consistent basis. Please stick with us and we will be there eventually. I don't know when, hopefully sooner rather than later. I'm right there with you and I'm guessing that the buddies you play basketball with used to dominate you, right? Of course. I'm a 5-foot-8 Jewish kid. I mean, I got minimal athleticism. I found my sports, Nick. It's tennis and golf. That's, those are going to be my... No, but I'll say this, when it comes to basketball, you're a damn A-plus defense. Effort for the roof. Oh, you're the defense is through the roof, hustles through the roof. I'm going for every loose ball, you know, how it is. You know, it's got to make up in some ways for your lack of height and athleticism and that is how I do it or how I used to do it. I don't play much basketball anymore, 5 and 5 years, which sucks because it is literally the best workout in the world. You don't even feel like you're working out, you're bringing thousands of calories. So, just awesome. But let's talk about Giant's Office line, Nick, because this is the unit that is one of two... There's two things that will determine this season as far as if they're going to be a surprise team like 2022, make the playoffs, maybe make a run. It's one, the quarterback and it's two, the offensive line. That's how it is. That's how it's been for a long time. Since Eli Manning, that's how it's been. You can say back in Eli Manning days, one of those two things was still true, Nick. The offensive line was a disaster for half of Eli's career, at least, but we at least had the quarterback position locked in. Now, they have to find a way to get consistent production out of both the quarterback and the offensive line. So, with the offensive line, there's a lot of changes that are coming this year, both from a personnel standpoint and from a coaching standpoint. Let's start with the coaching standpoint, Nick. What are your expectations as we get to training camp and what have you maybe learned through listening to Jon Schmelt interview with the offensive line? Because I felt like what I took away the most was a consistent discussion of what Carmen Priscilla brings and there was a lot to unpack there and I feel like it's going to be very, very, very different coaching style entirely, really, than what they got from Bobby Johnson. I'm not doubting that everything that you just said could be true, but how many times have we gone through offensive line coaches, Dan? And this was kind of the description, right? We're detail-oriented, we're going to change things up. We want you, if you're a veteran, to maintain your style, but at the same time, there are non-negotiables. And we're like, yeah, it's going to be good and it might be good in the beginning, but then when some mistakes start to happen and some games start to be lost, is there going to be finger-pointing? And I don't want to sound too cynical here and I am optimistic that there's just a change in the offensive line room because there had to be a change at the coaching position with how bad and dreadful this position group has been, and I'm very hopeful for common Brazil, but until I actually see it translate on the field, I don't want to get too hyped about it if I'm just going to be frank. I think that's fair. I think we should take a step back, but I think we could also look at it and say, there might be notable differences that we see that can start to prop up. I won't say in training camp, again, you guys know how I feel about training camp a little bit overrated, but in the preseason, because that's an area where the Giants offense line has even struggled to be quite frank. Like, we've had bad offensive line play throughout free seasons, and it's led to bad offensive line play in week ones of seasons, and then carried over through the year. So I'm going to look to start seeing improvement in our preseason games this year, Nick. But I will say this, there's been a lot of changes. You can look at what Andrew Thomas said, and this is just through the all-season program, by the way, right? Like they got the basis in of the mental side of it in the OTAs and the mandatory mini-camp, and then there's going to be a lot of differences as far as training camp goes with the coaching standpoint. So Andrew Thomas says there's different techniques from a physical standpoint, send the run game. Herman Priscilla teaches different things like a rocker step on inside zone, based on linebacker alignment. He says in the passing game, a big difference is he wants us to get a lot more vertical in our sets, and then Andrew Thomas said, "I like the changes because I went back and I watched my film," and Thomas was saying, "I have a very similar set in every protection." And what he said is, and I thought this was really interesting from Andrew Thomas, he wants to get better on taking different types of sets, because that'll allow him to be less predictable as an offensive lineman. It's so funny listening to Thomas, man, because it feels like he's on a different level from most offensive linemen with the Giants or just across the NFL. It's almost like taking Madden from rookie to an all-pro level, because he's thinking about like, "Okay, my sets are good. I watch them on tape. They're really consistent." But I need to now think about something different, like being less predictable. Most of us were worrying about just getting your set right, Evan Neal, getting your set right, JMS, with Thomas, it's at next level, it's making your sets less predictable. But it's really interesting, I thought, to hear some of those technical things that Thomas brought up about different things Priscilla's already teaching. Yeah, and one thing he also mentioned about sets is Priscilla wants to incorporate a little bit more vertical sets is what Andrew Thomas said, and he was the first player to be interviewed by John Schmelt on the podcast. And I'll say this to man, look, when you're playing up to the 90th and 95th percentile of offensive tackle play in the National Football League, those are the types of things that you focus on, because you have everything down pat. Now it's just, "Hey, I become predictable, and when I'm going up against the Nick Boses of the world, and when I'm going up against the best defensive lineman and edge-rushers in the world, they know how to time my set because it is predictable. So now let me just master varying," said Seth. So I'm glad that Andrew Thomas has that understanding of what to do to combat the best of the best. Yeah, and I wonder because this was a big talking point throughout these interviews with Schmelt, the big talking point being that the biggest change he's noticed, and then every single player corroborated this and said, "This is the case," is that Priscilla is more of a teacher, less of a coach in the sense of not yelling, yelling, yelling, rah-rah-rah. It's more of just teaching, and understanding, and thinking about stuff. And he obviously came up through Dante Sarnakio, who a lot of people believe former Patriots offense line coach is the best of all time, or one of the best of all time, and I think he was a very similar, very similar, you know, not much of a yeller, more of a teacher. What I also found similar and interesting about that is when they asked, "Sorry, what do you love, man?" I'm just laughing because it all comes from the Patriot camp, and Giants fans are quite familiar with that rhetoric, you know. Oh, you're right. With the show, Judge. Yeah, exactly. Look, every team is going to be sold a bill of goods. Every fan base I should say is going to be sold a bill of goods. Sometimes you're going to pay off on that bill of goods, so, you know, like, it hasn't worked out for us in a while, but it's not always not going to work out. When it works out, you'll go back to these, you know, reference points of what has changed, and I think this will be a big change. But I thought what was also interesting is when they interviewed, when Shumelke interviewed Ronyan, he was like, "Look, I'm going to be quite frank with you. This offense is very different than anything I've ever been apart in. It's taking me a long time to get used to the terminology." Guess who he said has made a big difference from a mental standpoint, John Michael Smith, and he's gotten a lot of hype and praise from a lot of the different players they interviewed. And I think that goes into a big reason why they drafted JMS at 55 or whatever it was, 52, 53, 54. I don't remember the exact pick because of the mental side. That was something that Johnson stressed in their interviews and his one-on-ones with him. And I think it's something that could play a big role in getting this offense up to speed in a new system of the new offense line coach. What do you think about that? You're right. I think there are a lot of moving parts to that. I think John Michael Schmitz. You heard John Runyon. You heard Jermaine Olumanore. I think mentioned something about it. There was another offensive line in, let me see, yeah. Runyon really was specific about how far along he came. I think it was, was it Jermaine Olumanore who kept calling him Schmitz or Schmitz or something like that? Yeah, Schmitz. Either way. I think the development of John Michael Schmitz from a mental standpoint, and John Michael Schmitz said several times. He mentioned and alluded to maturing. He's like, "I really needed to mature, and I matured through this offseason." And what exactly that means, he was saying that he did it on the field and off the field. I think that's important, but also just the presence of Jermaine Olumanore. This is something that we mentioned for a long time now. Just him being with Carmen Bresillo and him kind of acting as John Schmitz said, as a players coach, just to help the rest of the offensive line adjust to a, and this is where it gets funny, right? Because Jermaine Olumanore is new to this very complex offense, so he has to learn that, he knows Carmen Bresillo, who's also new to offense. So with John Michael Schmitz being able to also take a leadership role at such a young age to help Olumanore and run into order to be playing next to him, that's going to enhance this offensive line if all of these pieces end up coming together. And if Evan Neal, who's the right tackle, if he can be healthy for training camp, and he seemed optimistic about his development, but again, this podcast that we're referencing was back like a month ago. It was in about May, June. So hopefully there were no setbacks. We haven't heard anything about that and he's ready to go hit the ground running and he can play next to run. You know, running can really help him reach his potential because that's really, I think, the meat and potatoes behind this offensive line. We need to have one thing happen, in my opinion, other than just being an absolute dumpster fire, it's have Evan Neal live up to being the seventh overall pick in the 2022 NFL draft. Yeah, it would change the entire outlook of the team. Not only just short term, long term, everything changes if Evan Neal can have a breakout and your three, you guys may laugh at it, be like, that's not going to happen. I'm so dumb with them, I don't care. But look, crazier things have happened in the NFL than a player who had really good tape in college, has a really good bill, but was injured his first two years, broke out in your three. You're going to act like it's not going to happen. You might be right, but it's not impossible by any means in my opinion, especially if he has a little bit more consistency next to him on the right side at guard, especially if he has more consistency at the center part and more integrity on the tier of the line. And with his third factor, if Carambrassillo gets through to him in a different way than Bobby Johnson ever did, which is not impossible because Runyon also talked about how Carambrassillo is just very different in the sense that he has these individual conversations with players about why things happen, how to fix them, and he gives grace in understanding new techniques. And he goes down the line, he was saying, it's not like, you know, a overall coaching type of standpoint where you're just kind of talking to everybody in a general sense, it's very specific in the way that he teaches. And I also thought one thing that I might have missed with Runyon, I thought it was interesting that I want to get your take on. We're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search "match" with Indeed. 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And one thing they asked him about was the calls to line of scrimmage and who's making those calls. And I remember he said the big responsibility was not on the quarterback in this offense, it was on the center. He's connecting with the center, Mike Kafka, and he's the center is helping set the page. And this is something that's corroborated here with one and said run-in saying, look, it's JMS, making sure the quarterbacks and the running backs are on the same page, like a year four or five vet off from a mental standpoint. So what I want to see this year is more of that defer. I want to see, we'll see how it goes, but I want to see JMS defer a little bit to the quarterback, Daniel Jones. I want to see Daniel Jones taking more command at the line of scrimmage before the snap and snap to the snap, but specifically before the snap, because, you know, look, you can run your offense any way you want to run it through the coordinator, through the center to the quarterback. But man, those offenses that are really, like as Tom Brady talked about a month or two, but those offenses where the quarterback has that full command or more command, it seems like they have a step above the rest. So I'm curious to see how that develops with this. It can be a collaborative effort. If John Michael Schmidt can do that, then that will allow Daniel Jones to focus a little bit more on what's going on with the secondary, what's going on with the second level defenders, and what's going on with the wide receivers, right? And if John Michael Schmidt, according to really Runyon, who said like, Hey, this offense, it is difficult. Like we've talked a lot about that with the tight ends and the wide receivers. He was like, learning this offense is difficult. It's different terminology. It's stuff I'm not used to, but John Michael Schmidt has really helped me. And if John Michael Schmidt has developed that level of intellect and that type of mastery and comprehension of this offense, I'd rather have him handle that and have Daniel Jones handle some of the aspects that he has struggled with because Daniel Jones isn't paint manning. Daniel Jones isn't Tom Brady. And that's not a slight on Daniel Jones. You know, this is just the way it is. It's just the reality of the situation. So I'm fine with having John Michael Schmidt handle that if he can. And it seems like right here in June and July, a lot of the teammates who are new to the squad believe that he can handle that responsibility and that John Michael Schmidt is teaching them a lot about this offense. I think that's fair, Nick, but I also think a part of me is willing to say that that is a slight in some ways on Daniel Jones because having that style of command of your offense as Tom Brady talked about, gives you such a level of long term as a team, if your quarterback is that guy. And you know, this is your six and I don't think we've seen enough development from Daniel Jones before the snap. We could talk about it's obvious on film that he hasn't developed after the snap or process standpoint, but a lot of people can blame that on the old line. I think they're overlooking a lot of the snaps where he's bailing pockets earlier. I put one on Twitter earlier. That's fine. You can overlook the film and that's fine and you can make your case or say, you know, he's been shell shocked and that's why. But the before the snap stuff, that's where he hasn't in my mind taken a big enough jump six years into his NFL career. And a lot of people assume, oh, because he played at Duke, he was going to be really good before the snap and other Eli in that sense. But what they didn't really factor in was one, how late he was to football at high school and two, how much at Duke he didn't have control over the offense and it was really just cut, doing everything there and calling the plays in from the sideline and how that's impact and hindered his ability to develop before the snap after, you know, get making to the NFL. And obviously having a lot of different coaches in the NFL probably hasn't helped either. But regardless of how we got here, we need to get to a point in my mind, at least where I think he's doing more before the snap because if I want to feel confident about him long term, taking up 15, 14, 20% of your cap, I need to feel confident of my mind at least about him being one of those quarter of us because I know no matter what changes Nick, he's never going to have an elite arm. He's never going to be elite in some other ways, like processing post snap and moving fast through reads. So I need to know that there's some level that he can get to before the snap that he hasn't reached just yet personally. Let's hit singles and take baby steps before we try to get a grand slam. I want doubles and doubles in the long term, Nick. I know what you're saying and your point is very astute and it's correct. Why am I asking for the doubles, triples and homeworks and Jones? I get it. You'll need to see the singles. What I am asking is just to be clear real quick is I set a bar really high for quarterback play in the NFL, especially once you're taking up 14 to 15% of your cap. That's a completely fair point. But to the John Michael Schmitz discussion, I am glad that like he wasn't the most electric interview. He seems very reserved and John Michael Schmitz or me and John Schmelke, I'm sorry, also brought up how he seems reserved off the field, but he has this edge to him on the football field. But I did appreciate when he discussed his pass set. He said his initial pass set specifically is one thing, one aspect of his 2023 game that he wants to fix and wants to perfect. And that's something that we brought up quite a bit too, Dan, is look, John Michael Schmitz, we talk about his run game and hey, he might be better for zone because that's what he ran a lot at Minnesota and the Giants run a lot more power gap, right? Well, I'm not even really concerned about the run blocking as much as I'm concerned about his his ineffectiveness as a pass blocker that that was, I think, the thing I was most concerned about from his 2023 tape was him losing not to the Shane Lemieux degree, not going to act like he was that poor, but he was not nearly as sturdy as he was in college and it seemed to be a huge jump and he didn't necessarily adapt to that jump throughout the season as I would have hoped. Yeah, you're exactly right. This was my biggest concern with him. I'm going from the level competition, the big 10 to the NFL levels as far as who he has to go against in these one on one situations pass blocker. And he, like you said, he was very, I thought this was really, like you say, it was an electric interview, but he was an honest interview, right? Like you said, I had to seriously look back at my film, which by the way, shows how much work he's putting in. I feel like he's a Daniel Jones type of the offensive line from like, gets there early, leaves there late, does everything right, says everything right and puts in the time and work. I hope that it's going to make a difference. It can sometimes and sometimes it won't. But like you said, we'll see this year because he said I need to make strides in my initial set in pass pro. He says, I need to make strides in sustaining blocks in the second level. I need to finish both in the run and pass game. He said, so everything was very detailed for me and he looked back at the tape and really took the time to see what he needs to improve. I think he's got it from the mental standpoint, Nick. I want to see it from the physical standpoint this year. He was candid too. Like when John Michael Schmidt said, or John Michael, this is the second time I did it, John Schmelt said something to the effect of how did you think last year went. It was kind of like a little bit of a pause and he was like, look, my God, I was, it was tough. It was a tough reason for all of us. It was tough for me and I appreciate that and I don't really understand exactly or know how else you would handle that type of question, how else you would answer that type of question. Very obvious that it was tough, but he seems to understand by all of those answers that he provided John Schmelt that I kind of let people down last year. I was not the player I wanted to be and I'm going to fix that heading into this season and we are setting expectations that are very high because we are a very confident group now under Carmen Brasillo with all the additions that we've made. I think the John Runyon and Jermaine Alumino are additions. Look, not the flashiest thing, not the sexiest thing in the world. I think that can make a world of difference for John Michael Schmidt and I just love the fact that John Runyon is praising John Michael Schmidt because John Michael Schmidt is helping those veteran to just to this complex talk. You know that, Nick, and I think the key thing you brought up here is we've discussed so many times with the Giants' offensive line. Why have things not gone the way we've wanted them to from an offensive line standpoint for so long? It's not because the Giants don't have all stars on their offensive line, it's because the weak links of the line have brought everything else down. You can ask all these great offensive line coaches on the NFL. The majority have said the same thing. I'm not as concerned about getting stars on my line, I'm concerned about eliminating a weak link. It's a weak link on a line that kills an entire offense. We've seen this happen year after year after year with Giants. And yes, like you said, will John Runyon and Jermina Luminor be stars? Probably not. It's not a guarantee. You never know, things happen randomly in the NFL and they could break out this late into their career. But what we're hoping they're not going to be and what I'm confident they're not going to be is weak links on your offensive line, devastatingly bad pieces that bring the entire group down. And that's why I'm excited and honestly, in a lot of ways, cautiously optimistic because that's very cautiously optimistic if you're talking about the Giants off the line, to take a step forward. And Jermina Luminor himself has said in his interview, I almost feel like I'm a second coach out there. He says, I'm probably the oldest guy in the offensive line. And I know the system. I've been with car members of three different spots, three different stops. I'm helping these guys get caught up from a mental standpoint, which I think is really important. He mentioned, by the way, when they asked him, because John's looks like, "Oh, things go wrong. There's injuries. You're going to play to athletes." He's like, "No, I don't think so. We have a lot of trust if injuries happen, and the players that are behind are two big tackles." And he mentioned Josh Azudu as one of those guys. I think it's not an experiment at this point, Nick. I think Azudu is going to be a tackle for the Giants. I'm interested to see what Matt Nelson contributes in training camp. The offensive line in the six foot, like eight offensive line in the Giants signed over from Detroit. Because I think he could earn that swing tackle spot if Azudu's not up for it. And I'm willing to give Azudu another shot at tackle. If you give him an entire year of being able to practice at that position, because he's just been bounced around so much. I think it's been a little bit unfair for Josh Azudu, and the injuries obviously have impacted his career. It's unfortunate that there wasn't an Azudu interview in the Schmelke podcast. I would have loved to hear from him, but McEthan was interviewed as was Schlotman. I think they asked Schlotman about, "Are you going to play any guard?" Or it was more like, "Maybe, but I'm not 100% certain." So I wonder if we look at Austin Schlotman. Is that a player who, what do you think the odds of him making this team are? Because last year we had the hass-an-hour kid, he ended up going down with a triceps injury. But we wanted that back up to John Michael Schmitz to be a veteran center, and I'm wondering if Schlotman can earn that spot on this roster, on the final 53. And if he has that positional versatility, that will certainly help him. Yeah, I think you know, does he have the first ability? And we'll see in camp, I think, right? Because that's when it really matters what's going on in camp with an offensive line. They brought in more pieces than typical to try to kind of, I don't want to say throw numbers at the problem, but at least give themselves an opportunity where if injuries do happen again, like they have in the past, the offensive line, they have some guys who have been in the system, have been through the OTAs, have been through the mandatory mini camps so they're understand from the mental standpoint, you know, they can separate in. And then from that point, you know, figure out where to go. So I'm hoping you're right, but I want to see it with those guys, because I think we have to kind of not trial by fire, but just kind of see how they fit in with everybody else. One more thing on your main alumina or that I thought was interesting Nick that I want to get your take on. He mentioned specifically Andrew Thomas and John Michael Schmitz are the two super smartest on this line who know this offense like the back of their hand, found it interesting Nick that, you know, Thomas, of course, given, but he's been with the system for both years. But JMS just got here last year. It was his first year in the system. Like, it's not like he mentioned Evan Yield or, you know, Josh or whoever is knowing this offense like the back of their hand. JMS, the guy who's only been here for one year, is really well tuned with the offense. I just want to believe, Nick, that JMS's mental, the advantage he has from an IQ standpoint will show up on the field as early as this year. That's where a lot of my cautious optimism does come from. And look, Bobby Johnson, the big rumor was the reason why he fell in love with John Michael Schmitz and felt like he needed John Michael Schmitz was because of that intellect, was because of how fast his processing was and how he was able to discuss the offensive line with Bobby Johnson, protections against different fronts, things of that nature. So hopefully Carmen Bresillo benefits from that choice by Bobby Johnson to bring him along. And did you take anything away, Nick, from Evan Yield interview? I have feeling good health-wise written down. Okay. I wasn't too much, like John Schmitz said something like referencing, I don't remember exactly how he said it, but something about how his issues with the offensive line and Evan Yield was just like, "Yeah, whatever you guys want to label it as," or he said something to that effect. But he was like, "I basically just want to be more consistent. First get healthy, I'm feeling good right now, get more, and then I can develop consistency and hit the ground running." But I didn't really have too many takeaways. What about you? Well, that was kind of my takeaway, which just said it didn't feel like you really was willing to get specific in any way. You know, Schmitz led him in a lot of ways, like hand placement balance, positioning, those areas, and he had for whatever you want to call him, like it's not whatever you want to call him really, Evan Yield. These are specific areas where I'd love to hear you get a little specific on ways that you can get better, but that's not something he offers. You know, he talked about how Carmen Bresillo can help him with set angle, his stance, how he carries his hands, how he sees the game, recognizes the defensive front, safety rotations, and where the pressure is coming from. Great. That's awesome. And also then said very generally, Carmen Bresillo will help me by improving by coaching things. I also, you know, heard him say again in this interview, something he said before, "I just need to, you know, get reps and be the player I know I could be." Right? Well, guess what, Evan, at some point it's not about being the player you know you can be. You're very confident in yourself and that's fine. At some point it's about actually, in my mind at least, having a little vulnerability and understanding that things have not gone the way that you know you can be, and maybe there are reasons for that. Maybe you can unpack that and maybe you can look for specific things that have led to what has gone down. I like a player having confidence in himself, Nick, but at some point I would love a player to do kind of what John Michael Smith said and say, "Look, it was really rough to go back and watch the tape of my rookie year, but I had to do it and I had to get really specific and detailed in what I need to improve." I'm not saying Evan Neal hasn't done that and he's just unwilling to share it with John Michael Smith, but I can't get confirmation on that at all from this interview and in a lot of ways Nick it almost leads me to the other way. Like is he really taking the time to grind the tape and get specific with why things have gone to where they've gone through? So I can't say I came away from that Evan Neal side of this interview very, I guess optimistic. I didn't look into it so much and I'm not a, I'm not throwing shade your way or anything, but it's very easy to look at Evan Neal through that type of filter to just kind of be negative about Evan Neal right now because the expectations we had of Evan Neal was that we were getting this beautiful, you know, filet mignon or whatever, just cooked frickin' gray, London broil, whatever your cut is, and instead we got like Taco Bell quality me. So I think we need, I think we just need the Taco Bell part. Yeah, I mean, I'm not even trying to throw shade at Evan Neal, this is the reality of the situation, he is not living up to the expectations of being a top 10 pick and the draft to the point where we're holding it to the feet of our general manager and saying like he doesn't work out like you might be done like this, this is a big indictment on Joe Shane if Evan Neal flounders at right tackle and then we're just hoping that he can play guard. And then to the point that we were making before about germano luminauris like, yeah, I like that answer by germano luminaur, but I also think it's bullshit. I think if two or three rolls around in the right tackle position is a problem and week four germane luminauris going to be the starting right tackle unless Josh Zudu or Matt Nelson, who I think is a wild card can really show a certain level of development for a Zudu's case or competency for Nelson's case to anchor that spot down. But then at that point, if it's not injury related, what do you do with Evan Neal? Right, that in his own right is a major issue because that point, if you tell him kick inside the guard, like we've discussed in the past, Nick, it's, it will even have the confidence to, to, yeah, where does that not even just that it's like if you kick inside the guard, cool, which spot right if everybody's healthy. So a luminaur would probably kick out the right tackle. Oh, I see what you're saying. If they need to ignore, then they need a guard at that point, but then you're really taking a risk there, I think, which maybe, you know what Nick, I don't think we've even talked about this, but I just thought about this. Maybe the whole reason why, oh, no, never mind. I did this completely wrong in my head thinking it would make more sense than if luminauris was playing right guard and Neal was playing right tackle. So if they need to switch them, it's not as big of a jump. Now it's the opposite. We've got runnyen out there. So if they do need to make that switch, we're going to be doing Neil inside to the right, runnyen now has to go to the left or maybe Neil will play left guard, I guess, and flip back to that side and play left guard next to your Thomas. I don't even know, man, it's not ideal and I don't want the New York Giants to base their starting offensive line right now on if Evan Neal doesn't work out. Like I think you go in there and that's why I'm like completely runnyen's best at right guard. You give him the reps at right guard. He'll be ready at right guard. Luminor at left guard. And I'll just hope a luminaur in the case that Neal does not work out a right tackle. He is professional enough to just switch to right tackle at the playing left guard. It's not an ideal situation or a luminaur goes and becomes a swing off of the lineman depending on how he's doing or Neil does, which is like the worst case scenario. And then Matt Nelson or Josh and Zudu end up playing right tackle if they had that development and competency we were talking about. But at least like the one positive takeaway I can grab at right now is maybe Dan, just the influx of players that the Giants have received of competent football players like even Aaron Stini who haven't even brought up yet, that's gonna benefit the Giants because last year they didn't have that. They didn't have any depth. So the Giants at least have the depth right now to handle the issue of Evan Neal not working out at right tackle. Thanks. Fair. And that's what we're banking on. But a lot of this is still uncertain and I will say this as we head into the days before training camp. This is where I'm most excited to track in camp the offensive line and where they're developing including in the preseason because look, I will give credit to those who say we spend a lot of time on quarterback and in the end the quarterback won't make much of a difference if the offensive line doesn't get to at least a competent level to be quite frank and fair. It was somewhat competent 2022, but that's not even the goal. We need better than that. We need, again, I've said this before, I'm not expecting miracles here Nick. I just want league averages here, scamming the 15th or 16th best off and divine and it's a massive win for us. And I'm not going to say a miracle though. I really won't because I am partially optimistic that they can develop this line into a top 15, 16 unit because why the hell not? They have a locked in best one of the three best left tackles in the end and the fricking NFL you can put on an island. They have a seventh overall pit at right tackle. They have a 55th overall picket center and they just signed two guys to start at the other two positions. Like, this should be it, dude. We should have this thing in place to at least be a 15th best unit. God, just make it work and training camp for still find a way to fast track this development is always is all I'm hoping for. And if injuries do affect the New York Giants, you have some options at right tackle and you have multiple options inside now, you did not have that last year. You did not. That's why I'm most optimistic about the New York Giants offensive line heading into this season. Then I've been since I've done this podcast and I know that's not saying that much because the Giants have been so bad. The Giants off the blind specifically has been so bad, but you have a center now who has a year under his belt. You have Andrew Thomas playing at a elite level. Hopefully I've been you can be healthy because it does seem like injuries have slowed him down and you have all the veterans that you just discussed last year. Who the hell were the contingency plans? We noticed that after the first drive in week one and speaking on Andrew Thomas, I was another thing that was revealed on this podcast was he wasn't helping the entire city. He said his hamstrings did not feel 100% until the end of January into February and his run blocking specifically is what suffered because going forward and pushing off the hamstring, he felt like he wasn't playing up to his potential. He said his past blocking was okay. He said it was solid. He can move and still dance, but just going forward and driving through like a 300 pounder really affected him. We knew he was playing her and he was not playing his fully 100%. We said that a lot just watching David wasn't the same elite. It was still somehow he was great in Bass Pro despite playing hard, but just goes to show there's another level we're going to get out of Andrew Thomas's here if you can stay healthy, which we hope is the case and that could also be another reason to leave for optimism. I wonder I have to think more about your statement as if this is the most excited I've been since we started doing this podcast about the offensive line in the preseason because I might argue that before the 2022 season would be the win the area for me just because my expectation at that point was that we were going to get a immediate top almost 15 or 10 right tackle at Evan Neal. I really just thought he hit the ground running and he was going to be like an Orlando ground type like too long to really beat around the edge, but it's hard for me to be as optimistic about that happening now with Neal as it was two years ago. But I do think the pieces around him have definitely improved the interior. This is the most excited I've ever been about the interior. It's off the line for sure. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think right now I'm still a little bit more excited than them. Like then we had Mark Lewinsky coming in and we were, I would say we were a little bit optimistic about Mark Lewinsky, Feliciano we were a little indifferent to I think Feliciano outperformed Mark Lewinsky and then left guard it was, you know, Ben Bredesen or Josh. Yeah. Yeah. That wasn't great. But yeah. I feel better personally about a Luminor Runyon John Michael Schmidt than those three. And Evan Neal were still rookie. We expected top 15 by the end of the season, possibly, but he was at right tackle obviously not a tackle, but he was still a rookie. And we even figured when we drafted Evan Neal that there was, it wasn't going to be a smooth rookie season. We thought there were going to be some bumps. I think it was probably a little bit worse than we expected. Way worse. Yeah. Yeah. And then they would jump the second season. It was now it's just like really down in the dumps because there was no jump. Schmelt referenced, hey, those injuries, the knee and the ankle and I don't want to throw that out of the window and just say, oh, well, you should have overcame it because you were playing. Those are serious issues, but it does seem like he, his issues weren't just because of his knee and his ankle. There are balance issues are high. There's just bad timing. Kind of what he's really willing to address specifically, not to read too much into it, but it's the fact of matter, he really never has addressed any of them specifically. Like we heard John Michael Smith said. Yeah. That's something that's interesting to me when it comes to Evan Neal. Evan Neal, look, man, he's at a bumpy, bumpy star here. The Flipping Burgers comment was just such a poor choice of words and I get to use frustrating. You know, he's a kid. He's never really dealt with professional adversity or football adversity in his life because he was always just the best player, five star recruit, went to a top high school IMG Academy that ends up going to Alabama. And now he's in the biggest fricking, just spotlight in the entire NFL world and you're not playing well and he's hearing it. So I'm hoping man he can, if he can come out and just be league average, that is a huge win at this point, which isn't necessarily a great thing as we were expecting more than a league average, but I'll take it at this point in these days. All right. That's all the time we have from today's Big Blue Bander podcast. Thank you so much for listening and tuning in, keep it locked and loaded. Please download, please rate, subscribe, do all those things if you haven't already. I assume most of you have and hit like on this video if you're watching on YouTube. Thanks again. Have a great rest of your week. We'll talk to you soon. a lot of you. Thank you. Have a great day. [ Silence ]
