THE FLIP SIDE with Andy Mai
TFS#212 - Kesii Dee (183k followers) Quit Her Investment Banking Job To Go All-In On Her Ecom Business
Kesii Dee is a lifestyle and fashion influencer with over 183,000 followers. She holds a degree in Civil Engineering and Finance from The University of Queensland and previously worked in finance. In 2024, she transitioned from investment banking to help her mother grow their family-owned Feng Shui shop, Serenity Art & Home. Kesii shares personal insights, family life, and promotes the business on her social media.
Connect with Kesii Dee!
www.instagram.com/kesiidee
www.youtube.com/@Kesiidee
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introduction
0:57 - Meet Kesii Dee
1:59 - Andy shares his experience studying Actuarial Science, and Kesii about pursuing Engineering
6:28 - Andy's journey in starting his own e-commerce and education company
9:28 - Transitioning from investment banking to becoming a social media influencer
11:51 - Transitioning from Civil Engineering to working as an Analyst at an investment bank
13:39 - Kesii on wanting to become a bartender on a cruise ship when she was 16 years old
14:15 - Kesii shares her experience working 13 different jobs, earning $8–$9 per hour at a young age
15:08 - Kesii recounts her experience serving a scientist earning $50 per hour while she was working at Gloria Jean's for $9 per hour
17:23 - Kesii shares why she chose to study Civil Engineering
18:29 - Kesii shares her experience studying a dual degree in Finance and Engineering
23:12 - Kesii's experience as a UCLA exchange student
28:33 - How Kesii got into social media
35:57 - From the corporate world to building her own e-commerce business
38:34 - Andy's experience working his first job at McDonald's
40:14 - Comparing the ranking of first jobs: McDonald's vs. KFC vs. Hungry Jack's
41:59 - Andy's journey from swimming instructor and math tutor to starting a dropshipping business
45:45 - Kesii talks about her dream to go to Coachella before turning 30
46:26 - Kesii's experience going into Made in America festival listening to Kendrick, Migos
47:04 - P Diddy's son birthday party with Justin Bieber
48:41 - Kesii on building her social media for her Feng Shui bracelets business
52:57 - Kesii shares how her corporate experience helps navigate business challenges
56:56 - Always Close to Success: Andy shares why he chooses to live each day to the fullest
59:19 - Setting boundaries: Why you shouldn’t always be the go-to person
1:12:55 - Is it true that successful people experience more failures?
1:22:01 - How Andy lost all his friends after coming back from San Francisco
1:25:15 - Andy shares how he organized a mastermind dinner with top founders around Sydney
1:28:19 - Kesii's thoughts on content creators from America vs. Australia
1:31:58 - Andy's journey working with a startup in San Francisco
1:37:51 - Andy on not craving to return to San Francisco
1:43:00 - Why do most people fake their tough upbringing stories?
1:47:02 - Andy’s 5-year goal to have two kids by 30
1:49:57 - How much did Andy pay for the domain 'studying.com'?
1:56:38 - Andy shares the long-term goal for his company, 'studying.com'
2:01:17 - Kesii shares how she got an e-commerce course for $10K to help grow her business
2:04:02 - Andy's thoughts on how Kesii should grow her e-commerce business
2:08:10 - Kesii shares the meaning of the three bracelets she is wearing
2:16:11 - Kesii shares how she got into Feng Shui
2:20:13 - Kesii shares the meaning of her necklace
2:23:57 - Kesii explains how she arranges her room using Feng Shui principles
2:28:50 - How does Feng Shui help you find a girlfriend or partner?
2:35:26 - Organizing Andy Mai office for better Feng Shui
2:44:41 - Kesii shares her recent life discoveries
2:48:23 - Kesii’s personal goals and focus for the next 6 months
2:50:12 - Connect with Kesii Dee
2:50:27 - Outro
- Duration:
- 2h 51m
- Broadcast on:
- 31 Dec 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
I went to America for exchange, UCLA. Does the unit cover the cost? Does it go under hex or? Rosie, exchange means someone in America and this is someone in Australia, you're literally exchanging universities. So if they place me, I place them and you're paying for each other's school fee. So I'm paying my hex $3,000 'cause I was doing three subjects and they're paying $27,000 for me. Do you believe in Feng Shui? I think I do. For me, Feng Shui is more about the way of thinking of abundance and attracting rather than trying to chase. Have you heard about eating grapes under the table for New Year's Eve? No. So this is a TikTok thing where girls were promoting eating grapes under the table to attract a man the next year. I think Petey's son had a birthday party. A lot of people from UCLA went to all the celebrities who was at the top. And all the students be at the top bottom Justin Bieber was out. Whoa. And I'm like, I missed it. 'Cause I was traveling in the top. You're such a nice, chill person. You're naturally a super driven sort of focus. Oh, you're gonna move it, hi. How's your week being? Yeah, it's okay. Are you Australian? Yes. Are you from Sydney or are you Brisbane? I think you're back. I'm from Brisbane. Where are you? Sydney. Oh, okay. I used to live there. Where do you live in Sydney? I live in West Sydney around Sefton area. Sefton, Bangstown, Chesapeake Hill, Villa Wood. Okay. I used to live in Lewisham. Oh, near the city. Oh, like sort of ish. Like, you know. No. Were you just studying? Oh. I know I was working there. Whoa. Are you from Sydney or are you, you've always been in Sydney? Yeah, born and raised. Were you born in Brisbane? No, China. So I was born in Chongqing. Do you know Chongqing? It's like this, I see, you know how part? Yes. Yeah, so it's like we're all the, that area. This is the Toronto area. Yeah, so it's called the spicy food. And I moved to Australia when I was 11. And I lived in Cairns and then Brisbane. And then I only went to Sydney for five years. It's five and a half to work in finance after I graduated. Did you study? I did one year of university. Oh, what did you do? I was doing actuary science for one year. What actuary? Actuary? Yeah, actuary. Is it actuary science? It's not just actuary? I think the degree is called a bachelor of actuary science. That's what's called, but yeah, it's starting to be an actuary. Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah, it was pretty intense that first year. Like, I remember doing like, I was pretty good in maths in high school. And then going to actuary, like. High level math? I, they call it four unit. So I guess that's the highest level math in. You can do that. Did you do the four unit? I did do the four unit. And how did you go? I did it all right in high school. And I thought that would have allowed me to do pretty well at actuary. But man, my peers, they were so freaking smart. Like with that, they were insane. And they had no tutoring in high school and they'd still crossed like HSC. And like, I was like, whoa, like, I'm very like, I think I was like, probably like, maybe like, I was in the bottom 30% of the class, maybe I don't know, maybe, I don't know where I was. I did. I survived, but it was pretty hard. 30% of a actuary degree is pretty high. Is it? Okay. Yeah. My friend said that half of the people doesn't even end up finishing their degree or something. And then my mom wanted me to do that. And I didn't because I found engineering more interesting. I was like, I'm going to do that instead. But yeah, my friend told me all about it just. And he's like the smartest person I've met in my company, like the smartest, like people that's like older than him 24 years in the industry would like, like, listen to him. Wow. Yeah. Like he's like probably like the smartest graduate I've seen in my life. And like, I think within like few years, he already started getting gray hair, but he's still have great hairline. But like, I think he's like, brain is just on another level. So yeah, actuaries to me are like another level of human being. I agree. I didn't finish it. So I can't take full credit. But he started it like he got in. That's crazy. And he did one year, like not even just one semester. I feel like one semester is like, oh, but one year, at least he like actually tried, you know, like not just once messed up. Did you pass all your subjects in the first semester? I think I passed everything. Yeah. What? Yeah. Yeah. Because in engineering, like a lot of people fail the first semester, like a lot of people come from private schools and they've been doing tutoring all their life. And then when they come to uni, they're like, they don't know how to deal with it. Yeah. You passed it. Yeah. I actually like not as bad as you thought. Yeah. I wanted to do a, sorry, what are you going to do? I was going to say I was trying to do a Bachelor of Math, like as a dual degree with engineering. But when I did applied math, did you ever do applied math? I think so. You know, like my chlorine series, like, did you, like, okay, anyways, it just, so you have like math is like, you apply the methods and then the applied math was like, you learn how they derived the method. Anyway, it was like another level. And that's when I realized, oh, maybe I'm not as good as math as like I thought. I think I was the same thing. And actually, I remember like the teacher would present the lesson in math and I'd be like just trying to keep up and try to understand what's happening. And I'm like, my brain is about explode. My friend next to me, he's just chilling. He's like, he gets it and I'm asking him, he like, he understands. I'm like, what the hell? Like these guys are naturally just born gifted. Are you a visual learner or are you a listener? I think I'm a like a practical learner. I learn by doing things many times. Yeah. I feel like that's why you probably just like, I never understood anything in lectures. Like, or I'll just understand in my own time. So I'm like, I, I never understand anything in any of the lectures because they're telling you and you're just trying to, it's not your own pace. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, what type of engineering did you study? Civil. Civil. Civil. What did your parents do when you cleared it? So I took a gap year when my sort of business had like an online econ business that did pretty okay. I was like, I was like, I was like telling mom, I was like, mom, like, I remember the end of the summer break, end of the first year. I was like, if I hit $500 a day, I'm going to take a gap year and I repeated that again and again and again. I was nowhere close. And then literally a week before second year started, I found a winning product, $500 a day, took a gap year. Are you doing drop shooting? Was that drop shooting? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then... Wait, what was this? How old are you? I am currently, I'm 99. So 25. Okay. I was like, you're 95. Okay. You're 99. Yeah. And then I took a second gap year, third gap year, fourth, fifth, and then I've gone back here. Oh, because of the winning products or you have other winning products now? I think it was like me doing drop shipping, econ, then doing YouTube, teaching people what I learned, then that turned into people started reaching out being like, "Hey, can I pay you to learn?" And that went into consulting, then sort of group coaching, then courses, then building like an education sort of platform. So that's sort of been the seven year journey, I guess. Oh, wow. So what do you do now? The main thing is probably the education company, studying.com. So we sort of still do a lot of, I think I'm building the sort of studying the education platform that hosts my own course. In the course, I still sort of sell and teach. So that's sort of education, yeah. Sort of drop shipping, e-commerce, brand building, sort of course. Mm, interesting. So you don't do drop shipping anymore, but you do the course. I still have two drop shipping stores that I run on the side. They're like automated with one VA from the Philippines, but I don't put too much virtual assistant. Okay. But I don't put as much focus as I did back in the day, no. It's no longer my main thing. Mm, but it's a positive investment, so you just leave it. Yeah, it doesn't make much. It probably makes like $50 to $100 a day, each store, so I have two. And then the VA, the virtual employee, I only pay her $100 a day, like profit. A revenue. I think the margins are probably like 60 to 70%. Yeah. No advertising. I don't. No advertising. It's just all organic. Yeah. Organic from where? Like I think Google SEO, plus the stores, each of them are like three to five years old. So it has SEO. I do have Google shopping ads. The VA also just posts content on like Instagram where we repost viral content. And then that drives traffic to the pages. Yeah. Yeah. You make yourself so easy, man. How about you, Cassie? How long? You're like an OG in the social media world, aren't you? Like, I think you've been doing this for some time since COVID. I think when I was working in the bank, because I was working at an investment bank, I was worried. Were you an investment banker? Um, yeah, I worked on deals. Whoa. We don't like 80 hour weeks. Financial models, at the start, it wasn't 80, it was like nine AM until like 10 PM. But not every day. So not like the foreign investment bankers, but it's similar. So investment bankers, they do like M and A transactions, like they're like in the middle whereas we do our own deals. So we have our own, um, well, we have our own funding and then we look at opportunities where we can invest our own funding into like equities. Um, uh, yeah. And what would you call your role then or what was your analyst? So at the start, everyone's an analyst, uh, as a graduate and I work on the deals team. So there's like customer facing, like the deals team. And then there's people that's like, after you get the deal down and then there's people in the back end, they do all the like operations, they do, um, risk analysis. I was in the risk, like area, but also, um, facilitating, like, working on all the transactions that they were trying to do with like new customers. Um, mainly probably 70% was financial modeling and then doing reports, um, but mainly financial models because every time they have a new deal, uh, they'll ask me, hey, do you think what do you think? So give me all the numbers, I have to go and do all the estimation and then do a model and do different versions of a model. Um, and then other things like making a budget for making a budget and making forecast for like our existing, um, we have like, we acquired a few companies as well and we started our own companies. Yeah. So they, they're like really smart. So I just helped them do like the budget. I'm like the numbers person. So they, everything that they go through, um, they have to ask me for like the numbers. A lot of Excel. So you like, how'd you go from like studying civil engineering to like working as an analyst at an investment bank investment in investment banking? Uh, at this, okay. I came, when I came to, I'll go from the start. When I came to Australia, I was really bad at English and I got bullied a lot. Um, I remember doing a public speaking and people were like mocking me. So I got really, I just always told myself, I'm so bad at English and I think that self talk made me feel like, I can't do anything if there's English. But I just looked at what I'm good at, which is math, and then I chose to do engineering in high school. And that really inspired me because I got to see all the, uh, like the teacher showed us some videos of, um, engineers and then they were talking about what they're doing. And I was like, that's really cool. Like you're good at math, but you're also like doing cool things and making cool things. Um, and then that made me do engineering in uni. But the other reason is when I looked at what I needed to do, um, engineering was mostly exams. And I love exams. I hate assignments because you can spend forever on an assignment and you might still not be good enough with exams. You get in, you get out like it's dumb. There's not much English involved. I didn't realize that engineering was really mathematical because when I was in high school, it was all math. And I was so good at math. I was like, oh, this is so easy. So I was like, okay, this is something that can get me money. And also I'm good at, and I don't have to do much English. I don't have to do reading. Um, it's not like law, there's so much reading or business. There's also reading. So that's why I chose to do engineering. And when I was actually 16, I wanted to be a bartender and I wanted to be on the cruise ship because the school I went to was a public school and no one really liked, I don't know all about this kind of stuff, so to me, I just, like, people wanted to be a hairdresser, they wanted to do tradies, uh, yeah, I like, I knew like, oh, I have to go to university because that's expected of me, but my mom doesn't know much, you know, she never went to university, no one around me went to university. So I kind of just have to like discover that on myself. And when I was younger, I started working since I was like 13. So money was really hard. Um, and I understood like, wow, like I worked so much for $8, $9, but I had like 13 jobs. Like when I was before 21, because I went from like, I GA for a 75 to glory jeans, it was like nine, 20. And I was like, holy shit, that's 50 cents more. That is so much. If I work eight hours, that is eight times 50 cents. That's like $4, like that's so much money. So I just like went to like from one job to another, like I was still getting like $15 an hour at 16. And that was like the most I got in paid and knowing that my family was working. So I had to pay the rent. I paid half of the rent. I paid all the bills. So I was working three jobs when I was in high school. So I wanted to be a bartender on the cruise ship when I was like making coffees because I was like, oh, I love making coffee, I was a barista. And then I saw this scientist, she was getting coffee. And I made like a love heart, but it was like a special kind of love her, like I've never done it before. And I got so excited and I grabbed my flip phone. So I'm really old. I'm like 32. So this is like back in the days, I grabbed my flip phone and I took a photo. And she was like, oh my God, you love your job. So she's a scientist. And I was like, oh, yeah, but I get paid shit, like what do you do? And she's like, I'm a scientist and I get paid and I asked her how much do you get paid? She said, I get paid $50 an hour. And I was like, shot, I was like $50 an hour. I'm working for $9.40, $9.40 or $9.20, I'm gloaging. And I was like, shot like, oh my God, you can use your brain and get paid that much. Because I was in like very physically demanding jobs, right? Like you're waitressing, you're bartending, like you're on your feet all day, like, and I'm working. Sometimes I'll work from like 6 a.m. all the way to like 10 p.m. I did that once and I couldn't walk home and I had to like call the taxi and I was $50. I couldn't walk to the bus stop to go home. So I called my mom, I was crying on the road. I was like, I can't walk anymore, my legs have given up. And she was like, I just catch the taxi, I'll pay obviously I didn't like, oh, that's comforting, but I didn't like to pay. And then I was like, wow, like, I worked all night and then $50, my money is gone. And I worked so hard for this money. Anyway, so back to her, I need to work on my storytelling skills, sorry. Back to her. So she was telling me like, oh, yeah, I get paid a lot, but I hate my job. And I was like, oh, but you get paid so much, like how can you hate your job? And just like, she goes to China, so she does research work. I don't know, remember exactly what research and that's when I realized like, oh, I want to get like money, like, I don't want to work for and send on my feet. And I, I knew I was smart, but I just didn't really believe I can do anything, I guess. Yeah. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm going to find something that can make me money and that I like. And when I discovered the engineering, I was so happy, like, this is the degree I can finish and I really like it. And I don't have to do English. That was the main thing. No English, no reading, even when I was choosing which engineering I was doing, like, I was choosing between mechanical engineering and civil engineering. And when I looked at the criteria, the mechanical engineering had a lot of cracks and you have to do a thesis, like it was a must, you have to do a thesis. And thesis meant I have to write and I hate English. I don't want to write English, like, but the thing is I didn't know, like, the engineering English is very factual. So it's, it's not like, blah, blah, blah, like, poet, um, but I was like, no, I don't want to do a thesis. And then civil engineering, you had to do a group project and you didn't have to do a thesis. Um, and that's why I chose civil because I didn't have to do English. Yeah. So that's why I did engineering because I wanted money and I was good at math. Nice. And then did you work in engineering or how did you end up out of investment back? Um, sorry, these stories are so long. I know you asked me a simple question. Um, I was like, wow, this is actually easy because finance, it's not like English as well. It's just math. So I was shocked. I was like, wow, I discovered something else. That is also math, easy to me, um, because I have a very analytical mind. So I ended up doing dual degree with finance as well. Um, I recommend everyone who's in university to do a dual degree because especially if you're doing a hard degree, like law or engineering, because if you do an easy one, like economic some, like finance, comparing to the hard degree, you do your GPA boost like crazy to engineers. Like finance is like super easy. Yeah. So I wanted to boost my GPA and I, and there was mostly exams. Also, I wanted to say uni for a longer period of time and engineering is four years and finance is five and a half years. And I wanted to do exchange program like I wanted to go America. So I went to America for exchange, UCLA, do you know the, yes, I went to UCLA for exchange and they rejected me for dual degree with because I wanted to do dual degree because I want to stay in uni for longer. First I applied for math and then I was like, oh no, I don't like math and I applied for finance. They rejected me for finance. And then I was like, okay, fine. And I applied for statistics. So I was originally going to do dual degree with statistics because I got rejected for finance, not because of my grades or anything, because I was too far into my degree to make it a dual degree for dual degree, you have to do every semester, you have to do one of each minimum. So at this point, I also said I have to do statistics. And I was talking to one of the, so I used to tutor in uni and the person that looked after the tutors, she, I told her about it, I was like, oh, I'm sad, like they rejected me. And she was like, oh, just write a letter. And this was like, when I learn, oh, you're just right. If you get rejected, you can just ask, you can just keep going. I was like, okay, I'm going to write a letter. I appealed. And they said, like, oh, please list the, they told me why. They say you have, you haven't, you've done too much of engineering to do one of each for the rest of the time to finish the two degrees. And then I did a plan for them of like, hey, this is how I'm going to do both at the same time. And I can finish my degree. And then, yeah, they said yes, and I was shocked. And I feel like that's when I learned, sometimes you just have to keep going until they say yes. Like, that was like the biggest lesson, because when I wanted to do UCLA exchange as well, they rejected me because they said I've done too much on my degree, same reason. By kept meeting up with the guy that was approving your subjects overseas. And because I've never done chemistry before by, and UCLA, you require to do chemistry. So I kind of, I lied and I said, I did a chemistry in, in high school. And then one of the subjects I picked, you need prerequisite of chemistry. And I've never done it. I was like, I'll just figure it out when I get there. But I kept meeting this guy once a week for like two months. And then he was so sick of it. He was like, by the end, he was like, we were trying to figure out, okay, what subject can I take to make this work? He was so sick of me. He was like, you know, Cassie, sometimes you just, just go, I'm going to approve it. If you get in trouble, when you come back, like we'll work it out, we'll work something out, like just, just go. Even you feel get in trouble and at least like you got what you want. So, because I need to he's approved, because I went to him every week and I didn't give up, he like approved it and I was so happy, because UCLA was one of the best experience ever. Yeah. So I got approval finance. I had few internships in engineering. And then I had an internship, do you know any engineering companies? Okay. Yeah. I had two internships in engineering. And then I had one in PwC, do you know PwC? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I went into investment banking. Wow. When you did UCLA, does the unit cover the cost, does it go under hex or? Rosie. When I was at UCLA, so exchange means, sorry, I've got my products here, so I'm going to use them. Exchange means someone in America, and this is someone in Australia, you're literally exchanging universities. So I'm going there and they, they, they place me. I place them and you're paying for each other's school fee. So I'm paying my hex $3,000 because I was doing three subjects and they're paying $27,000 for me. I looked at the bill. It was like USC as well, I was like, oh my God, like they're literally paying that much money for me and I'm paying $3,000 Australian dollars for them. Like that's how exchange work. So different universities have different partnering universities, and luckily, like I was, I had UCLA has a preference, but for UCLA, your grades have to be really good to get in like more than 6.5 our GPA systems, like L of seven. So luckily, like my GPA was good at the time, so I was able to go to UCLA, yeah, but it was so expensive. And also hex, they give you $6,500 at the time per semester for your time overseas, because remember life, I was working to pay rent and bills, like I couldn't afford to like go overseas, but because they were, I was still going to get Centrelink because I wasn't working when I'm overseas. So I would still get Centrelink and I would get the hex $6,000 to help me pay. So I saved up a bunch of money. I got the hex $6,000, so I was able to go to UCLA. Six months, and did you work in there, or did you just? You weren't allowed, yeah, it was just student visa, and it was 11 weeks, the semester is like three semesters per year, and it was only 11 weeks per semester. If I had more money, I would definitely have one for the whole year, like I feel like now I look back, because once semester you kind of get to know how things work, and then you settle in, you make friends, but yeah, I got to experience it. I would love to have had more time there, but my family needed me back here as well. So anyone that goes to university, like, if you have the chance, definitely do exchange program. It's just amazing, and you only have to pass. So you don't have to work that much. You don't have to work that hard, and the lectures there are so funny, like they're so different, like this, like one time, we had a assignment, so I did a concrete, a advanced concrete, waste water management, so that's one with the chemistry stuff, and then I did, so two of them were masters and masters civil engineering courses, because I've done pretty much all my civil engineering stuff, and there wasn't much choice, so I had to do two master class and one undergrad class, and the undergrad was about the chemistry one, the masters one was one of them's advanced concrete, and they used everything in pound, and another kind of unit, and I had to convert everything out to think in pounds, and then the other courses we had to use MATLAB, so it was like a really mathematical course, and in that math course, the lecturer gave us an assignment, but he showed us the answer to the assignment, but because I'd never listened in lectures, and I'm like, I always figured out after, I didn't know he was showing us the answer, so I pulled my phone out, and I'm taking a full video, a photo of his, the answer, he just, okay, there was ten people in the class, maybe seven, but he stood there, and then he looked at me, and I'm like taking photos of the answer to the assignment, and because I don't know what I'm like looking at, so I'll figure out later, I'm not like listening to him, he looked at me, he saw, and then he just kept going, and then because I already had the answer to the assignment, and then I met some other people who were also like math genius, and I was like, oh hey, this is my assignment, this is this information I got, and then, because I was trying to figure out myself, and when he saw it, he's like, oh, you already have the answer, and then we're like, oh, okay, let's just study the answer, let's submit the answer, yeah, they're really like, they're not that strict, and they kind of want you to succeed, because I know for a fact that I didn't pass my concrete, or maybe I didn't do that well, but he, I probably got a C, but he gave me a B minus, like he wanted to pass everyone, like they want to pass you, in Australia, they're very like, oh no, if you didn't get over this, you're, you fail, like they're very, unless you go and ask them and all that kind of stuff, like they don't care if you fail, but in America, like they're very, they're a lot nicer about it, and the class was a lot smaller, and when we were doing the exam, like the lecturer literally whipped out his phone and took a photo of everyone, and then the camera sound went on, and everyone stopped the exam, and we all looked at him, he's like, oh, sorry, keep going, like that's how casual it is. That's so funny, and then how did you get into social media? I always liked making content, like since B, since Instagram came out, I would always hashtag Asian, and all my friends would laugh at me, and every time I go to uni, they'll be like, hashtag Asian, and I was like, I'm embarrassing, but I was still chimegos, but I was embarrassed as well, because everyone would be like, oh my god, what is she doing? I think I grew to like maybe 20, 30,000 at the time before COVID, and then during COVID, like I really wanted to grow it, and then my roommate at the time kind of really supported me in that, because he was like, he knew what I wanted to do, and then he was very encouraging, so I ended up like doing more and what content during COVID, but the thing was before COVID, I think after I graduated, like even during my university, I really wanted to do it, but I just had to work so much, I was volunteering, and I had like engineering, so I didn't, and I was also, I guess, not confident enough to do it, so I just left it, and then I always told myself, okay, maybe later, maybe next year, and then during my time at the bank, I couldn't do it, because I found out someone got fired over the social media, not solely because of the social media, but it got brought up in the exit meeting about social media, like a wide photo, why did you do this, and I think a lot of people were stalking her on social media from work, so after I found that out, I got so scared, and the thing is her so I'm in bad, so I got really scared, like anything with social media, and then during COVID, I was like, okay, my roommate's really encouraging, and I also met my friend Maggie, she's an influencer in Sydney, I'm not sure if you know her, and she's pretty much that, she's one of the OG content influencers in Sydney, so she showed me how to make content, she makes it really fast, because before when I was making content, I'll put so much effort in, and she showed me how she batch-maker, she made it look so easy, and I'm like, oh wow, it's actually not that hard, so I try to make more and more content, especially during COVID, I think that was a time that I just got more and more comfortable, but still, I was really scared about my work, people finding out at work, and when they finally did, it was already near the end of me being there, so I was at my boss's wedding, and then everyone had to wear a mask, this was near the end of COVID, but then I took my mask off to go to the toilet, and then someone recognised me, and then I was like trying to take photos of his wife told me to take a photo of her, and then she was like, are you going to famous? And I was so embarrassed, and I was like, oh no, that's not me, and then people would always tell my boss, oh, did you know Cassie's on social media, and then I said, yeah, I'm glad that he wasn't really feeding into the gossip or anything, he was like, oh, that's her business, which I really respect him for that, yes, so I started during COVID. So like, when did things get easier, like when did things get easier where you didn't have to juggle five jobs at once, or is it still not easy? It's not easy, I don't, I make content for fun, I don't even get paid, like I'm not even like a paid influencer, like I'm not, I'm not even an influencer, like I just post content for fun, and even now I'm kind of thinking like what kind of direction do I want to go, because this is not bringing, I just not financially stable, you know, and especially for Instagram, it's not a very encouraging platform, it's, they design it for you to do and grow, they design the content to make you waste your time, I don't think it's a very good way to spend your time, I think I want to move more into YouTube, where people actually want to watch your video all the way to the end, for Instagram, like you never know what kind of people are watching your video as well, like you can go viral and then you can bring the wrong energy, the wrong vibration, so yeah, now I just think, I think I'm more and more authentic to who I am now, I think before it was just a lot of, you know, like dumb videos and like trends and those traps, now I'm like, okay, I'm going to just, do you think that I actually want to do like before I was talking to you, I literally made a list, like the kind of YouTube videos I want to do, but I wanted to talk about like when I went to UCLA for exchange, like why everyone should consider exchange if they're in university, like why people should do two degrees, my 17 jobs, like I don't know, things that's like kind of like a diary entry to talk about my experience, because that's a kind of stuff like I can't share on Instagram without hearing too much about what people think, yes, and making it in a way that's like so engaging and interesting, when we really, I just want to talk to like the camera, so yeah, now I don't know why I'm taking it, but I know because I'm studying the business for the time, like I'm doing the business for my mom, and I do need social media, so I do still need to like make content for her, and I do like making my content as well, but it's not really a financial investment for me now, and I think a lot of influences or content creators, I don't think brand deals are very sustainable, it's like it comes and goes, and I think unless you have the strategy to grow your following, which right now I feel very stuck, and I'm trying to figure out a way to like grow that, and the algorithms changing all the time, it's like it's just very challenging, and I think until you have the formula to go viral, or to grow a following consistently, then you'll be like challenging to like always like try and, it's like a hole, and you just keep things in it, and then once people watch it, it's gone forever, whereas like YouTube, for example, or even TikTok, TikTok has a better search engine, and YouTube things pop up from a few years back, and like the SEO is a lot better, and I'm still trying to figure out YouTube and TikTok, but I've only just been on Instagram, so yeah, now my strategy is probably just more, I'm trying to make more authentic videos, and maybe even skits, I wrote a lot of skits, and I just started to get more and more comfortable in like doing things on camera, so I'm looking forward to like to do some skits, do some more like, I don't know, things that's a bit more valuable, yeah, that's like, the thing that I just thought of, so like, are you doing like the business is full time, or are you still in the corporate world, what do you currently do? Great last year, I couldn't last year, so I was in America, I was working in America, and I sucked, because I just lost my soul, and they wanted me to come back to Australia. I already moved my life to America, and I really didn't want to go back to Sydney, just felt like I was going back a step, and I already told a lot of my friends throughout the years like, oh, I really, I think I didn't take, I didn't make the most out of my job when I was there, because it is not a bad company or anything, it's just that I probably didn't take the opportunities that came to me, because of like the, I don't know, mental struggles I was dealing with, and I left last year when they wanted me to come back to Australia, and then I told my mom, and I told her I've been wanting to make her website for a business for like a very long time, and I didn't make one, but it's not, it was not that good, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna just fully focus on this and do e-commerce, yeah, so I came back last, this year, March, and ever since I've been back having worked on it every day, and I still suck, that's so um, I need your help Andy, a thousand percent, one, by the way, it's not me, I'm sorry, it's so courageous that you did that leap, it's like, it's hard and it's like scary, and you've done it, like how does it feel now being, I guess since March, so it's been like maybe eight months, this is probably where it gets scary and it's only gonna get more scary, but how do you feel? I feel broke, but what, what's it in? California, so they wanted me to go Miami first, and I was like, hell no, there's like two hotpot joins there, like the hotpot ratio, hotpot to land ratio was not it, so I told them like I'm Asian, so they said California then, and yeah, I was living in Irvine, my grant was insane, it was like a thousand a week, sharing with someone as well, but they were paying us, so that was okay, so I saved up some money and I lived there for an extra five months after I quit, so I used up my savings and now I'm back, yeah, yeah, before you had a job, my first job was at McDonald's when I was 14, McDonald's, I applied to McDonald's so many times, really, but you get my job, you get a better job, pardon, was it your first try, does it get on your first try, no I think it was my second or third try, my first try I think I was like underage, and then and I tried again, okay, my days only cool people got to work at McDonald's, really, connection, it doesn't matter how much you apply, sometimes they would just reject you, same with maybe you don't know what that is, but only pretty girls work there, and you have to submit your photo when you like apply for it, anyway, because our Supray Macquas are like the prestige casual jobs when we were in high school, really, but you start off Gloria James was pretty, that's like, I would have loved to start at Gloria James, and everyone was mean to me, like I had to clean the bin, like the manager was so mean to me, she made me clean the bin, like the bin, no one ever cleaned the bin, it felt like a daily task or a monthly task, she just randomly like said, I'll go clean the bin, I had to, yeah, I had to clean the bin, and she didn't ask anyone else, I was the only person who cleaned the bin, and after that other people did it, but like I was the first person to touch this bin, and probably like, I don't know, many years, it was the most disgusting thing, but yeah, I completed a lot at work, sorry, keep going at McDonald's, so you work at McDonald's, but I think like McDonald's, like, I don't know, maybe it's during my time, I felt like it was like the lowest class you can start off, because you're working at the back, it's oily, it's hard, it's 30 degrees, all the kids under age smokers, like everyone there is sort of like, like the managers are like, it feels like it was just, I'll surround by like a bunch of like dropouts, that's sort of the energy, when they're not in school, a lot of them would skip school to work, oh my god, okay, well our tier is McDonald's, KFC, Red Brewster is like the last, um, Hungry Jacks, I don't even know about Hungry Jacks, but like McDonald's, KFC, it was like, I think you're right, I think it's fast food, that's like the ranking, but um, a lot of people started in retail, and that's like starting first job in retail is so nice, but no, no, the pay is less, way less, plus this holiday minimum wage was like 16 or something, and then for retail is 970, I don't know, it was really bad, so I applied for all these retail jobs, and then I realized hospitality is always more, it was like 12 dollars, I was getting 12 dollars at the time, and then they wanted me to go back to 970 for retail, because the job is less stressful I guess, hospitality always pays more than retail, so yes, the job might seem like cooked by they get paid less, so you had, you had a good, okay, so start up Mackin's, I think it was like $7.90, it was like the starting salary, but then when I turned 15, I think it jumped up to like 12 dollars, and I was so happy, because I was a huge jump, 790 to like 12, and then when I was 16, got a job at Kmart, then when I was like 17, 18, became a swimming instructor, at the same time I was like, swimming, swimming, it was so much, so Kmart was around maybe 17, 18, 19, then as a swimming instructor I got paid 32 dollars an hour, insane, and I was like 17, 18, you have to do a course, you have to know how to swim, how much was it, how much was the course, oh I think it was maybe like five, six hundred dollars, oh wow, nice, so I did that, and then I was also cheering Matt's, like high school math on the side, and then, how much was that, how much did you charge, I think I was charging like 25 an hour, that's low, and you have to go all the way there, oh no, they'll come to my house, and it was like my sister's friends, like a neighbor, yeah that makes sense, cash, cash, cash, yeah, so that's around 32 an hour, yeah, yeah, and then, and I think that was like when I was 18, and that's when I tried figuring out dropshipping, so that was like the journey from like 14 to 18, yeah, I did dropshipping once, I was trying to sell silk pillowcase, and this beard shaper, it was like, oh yeah, the L, it was blue, yeah, and we coated, called me daddy beard shaper, okay, nice, and then we got my ex's brother-in-law or someone to like make an ad for her, because he had a nice idea, right, anyways, we had one day, and we were doing sunglasses, but that's, and the sale was from someone that was in the voice, what, famous person, yeah, so they saw the ad and they bought it, and I looked up the email, and it was, he had like a website, because the email was like, I was like, oh, what is this, so I searched the email up, and he had a whole website, it was his audition on the voice, and he got in, like, I don't know his name now, I was like, holy shit, like, I want to famous what I did, call me daddy beard shaper, anyways, I failed a dropshipping, but yeah, I remember, I went to like, one of my first or second raves, and one of my friend's friend had this sort of LED face mask, this LED sort of Halloween face mask, and then, later I found out from the friend that he bought that from like, a Instagram ad, and he bought it from my dropshipping website, and I was like, whoa, that's so crazy, like, like, he bought it from my dropshipping website, yeah, wow, that's crazy, targeting the raves is good, I said targeting the raves, my friend has a business, he does the LED science, you know, it's like a spinning thing, and you can make your own icon, you can hold it in the crowd, yeah, yeah, and it's pretty successful, it's a pretty cool idea, have you seen those sprouting, I don't know what it is, but I've seen these TikToks, we're at raves, there's these people called sprouters, they would go up to you, and they'll put like, a sprout, like a leaf on you, yeah, I don't know, it's like, I have no idea, I don't understand it, it's like a new thing, oh, I've never been to raves, oh, interesting, I see, I've only been to a lot of festivals, because I was bartending, did you go to like any festivals in LA, like Coachella or anything? No, I've always wanted to go, but now I'm still old, that like, interesting to me anymore, I think when you're young, oh my god, that is so cool, if I go to Coachella, like, it looks so like awesome, but now I'm like, um, my dream, I've never achieved it, and I wouldn't believe it as much if I went now, I'm going to be, yeah, and then what's this dream that you didn't achieve? Go Coachella, we found 30. Oh, okay, that was the dream, okay. I went to Made in America, so I saw Kendrick, and um, I saw Migos on a nightclub console, it was really fun, and OG Mako, do you listen to this music? I don't know, OG Mako, no. But OG Mako has been shoot guested. I think, yeah, I've heard that, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, before the, yeah, so I went to, you know, Migos? Yep, the three guys, the three. Yeah, yeah, so I went to the meeting concert, and UCLA is like, they have a concert every year, and the year I went, I didn't know there was a concert, so I didn't sign up for it. They had like, they had Charles Gavino once, well, he was like popping off, and then they also had Chance Arapa, I think. Anyway, they had a look, they had Snoop Dogg ones. Like, they, yeah, because Snoop Dogg's son goes there, and P.D. is some of that. Oh, yeah, I was there when P.D. son was there. P.D.D. the guy that got arrested. Yeah, I went to P.D., his son was there at the party, and I think Cassie picked him up. Like, and at the time, I love Cassie, so I was like, oh my god, Cassie's picking him up. Like, um... It's Cassie, his mum, or was Cassie the step mum? The Filipino girlfriend that P.D.D. had. The one that he, like, beat up? Yeah, yeah, that one. And I'm pretty sure someone had a birthday, either. I think P.D. son had a birthday party, and like, a lot of people from UCLA went, and my friends, older sister, went, and then I was gonna go with it. Like, if I was there, so I was in New York, like, if I was in America, like, in L.A. at the time, I probably would have went with her, 'cause she told me, like, yeah. I would have pushed her to, like, go, 'cause I just want to, like, see, you know, American party. Yeah. But yeah, she was like, you know, like, I don't, I don't know, would they? Yeah, they would probably be at the house, or maybe, like, they would hire a place, I'm not sure. Maybe it would be at this house, I'm not sure. But all the celebrity was, like, two levels, so all the celebrities was at the top. Wow. And all the students would be at the top bottom, like, she was saying her sister said there was, like, just some people was there, like, it was like a proper, like, party. Whoa. And I'm like, I missed it, because I was traveling in York. Um, yeah. I just like to go to places for the experience, you know? Yeah. It would be a good story to tell, and if you didn't, like, it would have been epic, because, like, now. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But maybe it happened for a reason. I don't. But maybe it happened for a reason that you didn't go. Yeah, maybe. Um, yeah. So now I'm trying to really, um, I guess, build the social media for the business and, like, get better at the e-commerce thing and making content for the e-commerce, for the business. And the thing is the space I'm in, like, our competitors put a lot of money in ads. I just don't have the ads right now. So we tried our first ad campaign, so we spent maybe a K doing Google ads and, uh, Facebook ads. And I think we've got five sales, so it's, like, break even for now. Oh, what's the product? What is it that you're selling? Um, brace, uh, Bongshui bracelets. So, like, these bracelets, do you know, are you Chinese? I'm Vietnamese. Are you Vietnamese? Yeah, you, you know, like, like, the, like, P-show, um, Bongshui bracelets. Um, so they're pretty high ticket because if you broke even on, with five sales, not a thousand. Oh, no, it's in revenue and it's, I'm not, so am I the loss? I didn't, like, excluding the cost of my time and headache and the product. But that's a pretty good start. Pretty good start. Most people get zero sales with their first campaign. So that's pretty better than nothing. Yeah. How often have you been posting content for, like, have you gone hard and, like, posted every day for the last two, three months? I think, like, for me, I have to be very happy when I'm posting content or when I'm making content. I think when you're in that happy, nurturing, thriving environment, you're more, like, uh, you're more likely to, you know, succeed, be creative, problem-solve. So I think when you're in a low vibration, you need to get your shit together and then post, and then I post, yeah. So I think for a while, I was struggling a bit, like, mentally with the whole thing, everything myself and having no guidance. I'm not sure how much guidance you had when you did your dropshipping, like, right now, like, we're figuring everything out by ourselves. Yeah. So that's, it's, it's hard because I'm like a book nerd, like, everything I did achieve, I did figure a lot of it out by myself, but I always had other people that I've, um, I learned from, and then I was able to apply what this you have, you have to go and figure it out yourself. So it's, like, completely new to me. Yeah. So I think when I'm happy, I can post a lot, but when I'm not, like, I don't, I'm not as creative as I can be. And I'm trying to get used to, like, that consistency and momentum, like, not just doing it when I feel like it, like, force myself to, like, be creative with when I'm not. Um, yeah. So that's where I'm at, trying to be creative with when I don't feel like it. Given, you know, like background and foundation, I was sort of doing corporate, doing, like, working in, like, Ivy investment banking and so doing those long hours. Do you, like, I would have thought that maybe just coming from that world, you would have that grit to work even if you're depressed. Yeah. Um, I think in a lot of the times, I was always around people. I'm an extra brother. Yeah. There was so much vibes around me, good vibes, bad vibes, or at least those vibes, whereas now I wake up, I'm alone. Yeah. I'm in Brisbane. Yeah. I'm in Brisbane. Um, yeah. I think I find it hard when I'm alone. I think, like, right through the core of the world. Yeah. I'm, like, seven years into this, and it's still lonely. It's still challenging. It's still tough. You lose faith. You don't know if you're on the right track. People don't believe in you. People want you to fail. Like, there's periods of lack of self-confidence, um, the weight of responsibility, stress. Now, you know, all those things I still sort of feel on a week-to-week basis. You have something to struggle with? Not really. I'm sort of alone with the struggle. Wow. And, like, people can't really understand. Like, alone alone, or do you not, like, you have online communities? Hmm. I have, like, mentors, I have friends that are in business, but I think sort of everyone is sort of doing their own thing, I think. Like, I guess, for a good metaphor, for, like, let's say, during your social media rise, you probably had a bunch of other social media influencer friends, but you guys all did your own thing. So, if you got less reach and you weren't getting as much sponsorship opportunities that month, it wasn't like you could just call your friend and struggle with her. You're sort of on your own. So, I think that's a great metaphor. But, yeah, I think I can definitely relate with everything that you're talking about, and it's definitely going to get worse. It's not going to get easier. So, the only solution is learning to embrace it, enjoy the journey, and sort of, be grateful that, that, you know, you're alive and you're in the first world country, you have the roof over your shoulder, and then be grateful that you have the opportunity to do something of your own, because there's a lot of people that are stuck in the 9-5 rat race forever. And, like, if they quit their job, they're not going to be able to pay the mortgage. Yeah, I think especially in Australia, like, the top poppy syndrome is that when, like, someone sticks it out and everyone's like, "Ew." I think it's a collaborative environment to thrive in this area. I mean, there's a lot in these, there's some startup hubs. I used to be involved in startups a lot and, um, during my university time, I used to do startup competitions, um, so, involved in that scene, like, a lot. But now, like, I don't want to see anyone, I don't want to talk to anyone until I'm, like, I know what I'm talking about. You know, like, "Hey, what are you doing?" Like, I don't know, I'm figuring it out. Like, I don't want to see people and, like, still having to figure things out. I want to see them when I'm, like, I figured it out, you know? So, I'm, like, refusing to see friends. I just want to see the value in, like, doing anything until I have this figured out. So, I think that's, like, kind of negative loop. Yeah. My mum works as, like, a sales rep at, sorry. Oh, I was just saying, my mum works at, like, a sales rep at this optometry. And I'm sort of, like, I talk to my mum's boss. Um, and I remember I was on a call with her. And I was, like, I was, like, Susan, like, I feel like I'm, I'm just about there. I'm, like, I'm, like, the bolder's at the top of the mountain. I'm, I'm very close to getting to the top. And she said, "You know what, Andy? Like, you're always going to be nearly there. You're always going to be just from the top. Like, you're always going to be at that point." And when she said that, it sort of clicked. Like, I always, like, you're never going to make it. You're always going to be, "I'm so close to making it." So, I just started living life as if I made it. Not, like, made it, but, like, I started sort of doing things, like saying yes to things, socializing, meeting people, even though I guess I haven't made it yet. Because I want to live every day. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't want to work 30 years to then sort of retire or relax. Like, I want to sort of live every day. But I don't know. That, that sort of helped me a lot, but I don't know. Maybe you do want to disappear for six months and then not see anyone until you figure things out. I think for me to see someone, I mean, forever, like, with my limited time growing up and a university for me to be spending time with people. Back then, it was like, can I have fun with them? But now it's like, can I have fun with them? And also, can I learn from them? I love my friends. With what I really need in life right now, like, I cannot give out my time out like that. And if I do, I should be selective with, like, who I'm giving it out to. Like, right now I want to be meeting and talking to other people who are in the same, doing the similar things as me to suffer together and grow together. Because that's why I really need to, like, be doing right now. Like, seeing my friends is nice, but afterwards, like, for now, I don't feel like I can be a good friend to them. And because I'm the social one and, like, my group, like, I've organized everything and, like, I used to, like, put a lot of effort in. I think, because, like, I'm the go-to person for all the different friends in my life. So I thought, like, if I'm able to, like, have them feel good after them telling me about their issues, that it would work the other way around, but it's never worked all the way around. No, don't be that person. No, I'm serious, because I've been that person. People understand that I never judge them. Like, I'm actually a really nice person. Like, I don't judge people because I've been through so much, you know, like, I've done so much mistakes. So when I listen to someone else, I was like, I never judge them. And the thing is, they know I never judge them. So I'm the person they call because they know they'll never be judged and out there, because they know that they're close friends. Like, they have a certain standard, they have a certain boundary. So, like, when my friends are depressed, they don't call anyone else. They call me, but I'm not the person that they have fun with, you know, I'm the person, they know that I will always be there. And when they're great and good, like, they're not sharing that side with me. Not saying they're a bad friend, but, like, they just know that, like, I will always be there. But then, if you're that person, like, my mom used to listen to my course, and then she's like, you're already depressed, and then she'll be laughing at me. You're already depressed. And these other people calling you, and they sound depressed. And you have to press together. Like, she's always laughing. I mean, she's like, stop being that person that everyone goes, like, for you, the energy, I don't know if you believe in energy, but you're soaking up everyone's, like, they feel happier after because you're taking on that burden to on yourself. I realize I, um, I don't have boundaries. Like, I find it really hard to set boundaries with people, and I'm like a full show about sometimes, even I would say. So, um, yeah, when you soak up other people's energy, that needs to go somewhere. And that's not a good thing. So what's your solution? Like, now I have a lot more boundaries. Like, if someone disrespect me, I actually just tell them how it is rather than like trying to be understanding. Because I think before I'm very understanding, I'm like, I don't. What if someone calls you and like, hey, Cassie, I just went through a breakup, like, do you listen to them? Or what do you do now? Oh, yeah. I still, I still would listen, but I'm saying for you to be like, example, someone like, they call you every day for hours and hours, but you have your own things to do. But then like, you feel sad because they're sad, like, have boundaries within these kind of like being dumped by their problems. And if someone doesn't listen to you, the thing is my friend said to me, like, I was our person, I was depressed every day, and I need someone to talk to you every day. But because I keep going back to these situations, like, there's nothing my friends could do. And they had set the boundary, um, for me. And like, oh, if you don't want to listen to me, then I don't want to hear any of your problems because I know you're keeping things over and over again. So I felt lonely, like, it made me feel worse because I'm like, oh, no, it's there for me. But it will have their own boundaries. They can't just keep, like, helping you. And I think I'm becoming more and more like that. Just setting my own boundary depending on what it is. I guess, like, I guess it hasn't happened. Like, I will still, I love, like, talking to people and about their problems, but it's not. I think if I don't see them as a long-term person in my life, I don't want to invest so much in them. And also, if they wouldn't do the same thing for me, those type of people is a definitely no-no anymore. I remember someone, like, she asked me to help her move house. And I obviously said yes. And I even found someone else to help. And I knew in my head, I'm like, this person is not going to help when I move out of my house. Like, I just know it. Like, there's going to be something that comes up. Anyway, when I was moving my house, she wasn't there to help. And I was like, I knew it. Even when I said yes to her, like, I knew in the back of my head, this person will never do the same thing to me. So, like, I think if you'd understand that this person will never do the same thing for you, then you should rethink, like, you're just giving and you know that you never receive the same thing. So I think, yeah, those feelings. So I think it's just right, cutting out the people that you know that's definitely like filtering it out. So you can still give a lot. But whatever you give has to be to the people that's worth a lot. I think before I just gave it to everyone. And in my head, I thought everyone was a good person. But now that like my mom thinks my biggest problem is I try and help everyone. And like, I give my energy to everyone. But then like, at the end of the day, like, I haven't helped myself. And they probably wouldn't do the same thing for me. So now I'm like, after being hurt so much and stepped on by people, like, my friends as well, not just like, exes. I think I just, you just need to like, not just give it our freely and select like different tiers. Like, oh, this person, I would, they would do anything like that for me. I'll do it for them. But the people that wouldn't like, just, you don't have to give that much energy. Yeah. Makes sense. How are you? I think you're right. I think the things I've been learning is sort of matching people's energy, giving what I get at 10% extra. So if they want to give more, like, I'm always giving back 10% more. Realizing that everyone plays an important role on the chess board. Like, the pawn plays its role, the queen plays its role, the rook plays its role, and sort of seeing it for what it is. Like, don't expect a pawn to be able to do what a rook does. Ask a lot on constantly asking, not ask a lot, but just put out little ask for helps here and there, just to see where people are at. So, try to, going from not ever asking for help, to just asking for help here and there, just to see how people react. Like, it's sort of like a mini test. And if they say no, I didn't really need the help anyways, I just wanted to see if you would help. I mean, yes, but I did the same thing and I haven't talked to my best friend since I asked. Interesting. Because I know that, um, like, I remember my mum was needed help painting a house. So we'll, I was painting and I asked, like, a bunch of friends. I think I asked, like, 10, 11 people, two people showed up. But what I learned from that, it's, it's easier for a friend to shop at the hospital when you got in an accident and shop to help repaint your house or move you out. I think you remember it forever. Yeah. The, the, the moving house. Yeah. So I think realizing that, normalizing that and just sort of seeing that, like, not expecting like, like, I think the biggest mistake I had was like, I was being a really good friend to some people and I wanted, or I expected them to reciprocate it and they didn't have the capacity to reciprocate that. So I just would then be frustrated at them. And now I sort of healthily just see them as is, I love them for who they are. And I don't expect, expect any more. I don't expect any less. I see that every single person at every different part of my life, like plays an integral part of my life. And all start to go through each one of those friends to get to where I am today. Like I couldn't, if I missed, I couldn't miss a step, everyone played an important part. So sort of seeing an integral part, like, integral sort of view on all the people in my life. So that's what I've been doing. So just like, let them theory, just let them. You know, they're like, just let them, like, just let them be just. I think I went from, I went from, I think the first approach was like, being frustrated at a friend, then the next approach was like having communication and letting them know what I'm frustrated at. And the next level was like, okay, just accept them for who they are. Don't expect anything more, expect any less. And the, the, the, the version I'm at now is loving everyone for who they are and seeing that each person plays an important role in my life. The, they might be a small piece of the puzzle. They might be a big piece of the puzzle, but they all fit somewhere in the puzzle. So that's where I'm at now. Yeah, that's good. That's a very peaceful and what is the enlightened way to approach. How I used to, like, I think my peacetime was when I was UCLA, I just felt so happy. And like, when someone tried to pick a fight with me, I just like accepted, okay, that's what I did. Like, I just, and then they were shocked. They were like, oh, are you going to say your story? I'm like, no, like, like, yeah, I did that wrong. Like, it's fine. Like, I just, I felt so at peace with myself. But now I feel so much like emotions. I think when you're, when you have so much focus in life on the right things, these other things with other people is so, just does not matter because your focus and your emotions are invested into the right thing. I think when you're confused about what you're trying to put your time into and your estate, you tend to care a lot about what other people think and other people's opinion goes in. Like, you let them in and you feel shit because you're like, oh, maybe they're right because you're not sure yourself and your energy is not going towards the right thing. Energy is going towards the right thing. Like, people, whatever people say doesn't matter as much. So that's how I'm seeing it. So anytime that, anytime I get emotional about someone or how they treat me, how they talk to me, I think to myself, like, oh, that's because I'm not busy enough with what I'm doing in life. And I'm not succeeding enough because I don't think, you know, the people that's on the top, I don't think they'll ever care about someone calling them the lab. Like, they just have so much important things going on. And they know themselves and they're like, okay, well, I've done all these things. So if you're calling me a failure, if you're calling me a loser, like, it just doesn't even touch like what I care about in life, you know, like the negative energy will not get through to the battle. Yeah, one thing I thought of when I wrote down was you were talking about sort of previously in the finance world, there's like a lot of barrier to entry. So like, you have to get your degree, you do a lot of extracurricular activities, get the different work experience, get the different connections to get to sort of that top 1%. And like the instant thing I thought of was like, to get to where I am now, it requires so much failure. So like, you're going to have to like go through so much more failure, so much more doubt, so much more uncertainty, so much more bleeding out and nearly running out of money, to get to where I am now. And that's sort of the same barrier to entry. Yes, everyone can do it. And yes, everyone could study and get a degree in finance. And I see all the failures to get me to why I am now as the barrier to entry. So I'm now competing with people who are also seven years in and have gone through all that failure. And that's who would be my competitors. But I've got to really focus on just me doing my own journey. And I haven't been really focused on thinking about that. But that's what I thought of when you thought of that example in that comparison. That is a crazy discovery. My like what I'm the finance world or like the corporate world, everyone, you get there and your barrier to entry is measured by success. You achieve your degree, you achieve your internship was you're saying the whole social media, the entrepreneurship world, the commerce world is the barrier to entry to success is by failures. So it's like, you think you're closer and closer to succeed in the corporate world because you keep succeeding. Sorry, I'm holding a system. I'm making bracelet here. Let me hold my little issue. You like you keep going up because you succeed and you like get past your subjects and you pass you're like constantly motivated by little achievements, whereas like in the commerce world. Like yeah, you achieve and then you go back three steps, but it's always unknown. And you have to fail this many times to succeed. And it's like, how many people to fail that many times? Yeah, nice observation. Yeah, we can make it into a nice. The barrier to entry to quit is a history of success. But the barrier to entry for e-commerce is your history of failure. Andy 2024. And I guess it's like a nice. It's like a nice reframe for like now, like you sort of look forward to failures. You're sort of like, you're just stacking the failures. And it's like a good, it makes it nice to stack it previously. You just like, depress that all the failures. But I do think that's true. Like, I feel like all the people that are more successful than me, they've just gone through more failures. Like in this space, do you mean? In any space, in sort of just business and life in general, I feel like the most successful people are the people who went through more failures. Well, let's say I'm talking to like a monk, like he probably had to deal with more existential crisis and questions and uncertainties about life than I did to get to where he is right now as a monk. Or if someone in e-commerce. They never just experienced those things so that they are peaceful. I've never seen a successful person that didn't go through a lot of hardship. Are you sure? Like I haven't seen, I've never met a millionaire that was like self-made, that didn't have a really tough upbringing or a tough journey to get to where he was. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot. Like they grew up in an environment where their parents are successful. So they're naturally educated and they have a natural business mind. Example my friend, she does finance with me. She did study finance with me. Her dad is a property developer. When she was 18, her dad told her, "Hey, go find a property." You can like flip it, I guess. So she had to figure it out herself. But she was already in an environment where she was able to succeed. She has the resource and her lesson is she still like had to use her brain, you know, but the situation she got put in was just straight into such a deep challenge where she already had the funding she had. Like they say you have to have money to make money. Like she was already put in that situation to do something that maybe I will never be able to do in my whole lifetime, you know. Like I don't want to say that. I can. I can. Yes, I can. I mean, not for like, not until I work very hard, but she was already able to have the choice to be able to choose a property to develop at the age of like 19. Like that was her first property that she like looked at. And then her second one was because she's already in that space. So she looked at this apartment. So they were going to develop an apartment and she so they bought a land and then they were going to develop it to sell to like the other builders. I don't know. Anyways, she figured out a way to have the property built for 10 levels instead of five levels, example, because when she did it got it, it was only allowing five levels. And then she worked there with lawyers blah blah blah. And they were able to make 10 levels. Like in a few, I don't know, six months, she made like more than a million. She worked a day in her life outside of that. And she tried to get a job at my investment bank because that's what she want to do. She wants to work in finance. But during the interview, so she was going for literally a call center job. She's never had like real life experience. And when they talked to her that I was to work experience and she was telling them, well, I did this and this. And they were just shocked. Like, why would you even work? People come here to work because they want money. But you come, it's like for her, it's not even, it's not about money anymore. It's just like, hey, this is something I really want to do. Hey, I want to make money. And like, she already got all the money, like she can already surely succeeded with all her property development. Would you want to trade, would you want to trade places with her? Like, is she more happy? Like, is she like at a point where like, oh, I think she's experienced, like she's happy. Like, she, you know, she grew up with her dad, like teaching her all these stuff. And her knowledge, she's already in a circle where everyone has very deep knowledge on the proper development side. So I think like she's happy in the way that with whatever her life is going through and where she is now, like she's happy with like that. I mean, she obviously wants to experience what it's like to work in a corporate, but it's not a need for her, where's for like me example, and other people. It's like a need, like, I need to do this. I need to do this. Or like, I can't return my mom example. And like my other friend, who's also like a moon, she got a property. And then so she lived with her family while working, and then her family helped her out with like, you know, the first payment, like very typical Asian, especially Sydney, like finance world in Sydney, most of the kids, like they live in Sydney, and then they live at home until the mom, the parents or them save up enough money to get their first property, and they're rented out or they live there. Like, it's a very typical story in the finance world, like most of them get a property with their parents' help, like they save up money, and then they get the parents' help. Like within the first two years, so she, like her dad is also, I guess they understand that space. Like her house is like the nicest house I've seen in Sydney. Like it's, it's like on the edge of a cliff, and you can see the ocean, and on top of Bondi, what's the area? Anyway, clovely, clovely Bondi. Yeah, Bondi. It's like really nice. And she got a property and she knew that it was going to get redeveloped, because it's a very old building in King's Cross, and then she got it at a good price, and she got lucky. Like within two years, it got redeveloped, and so she got paid out, and made like, you know, like 800 maybe. So yeah, I think not a lot of loneliness that had struggled speak up about this struggle, but I think there's a lot of millionaires that didn't struggle, they just don't say anything, because I guess that's why a lot of people that sell courses, they make up all these stories, they're like, oh, I came to you. What's his name? Like all of them, like a lot of the YouTube, like the really famous one, a lot of them are liars about their story. There's a guy that talks about the crypto money he's thinking. He's really, anyways, they're like, oh, I came to America by myself. Like they love saying that all that kind of story, like, yeah, I came to, sorry, not sure, I went to America by myself, even that Guzman, Guzman guy, whatever his name is, even his like, they're like, not real, because they want to, the ones that do speak up is like, hey, I struggled, it can be real, and it can be made up, but the one that doesn't talk, like a lot of them, like, I feel like a lot of them just don't speak up, and you just don't know, you just, like, there's a lot of privileged millionaires, and when you go out in a family with money, you're bound to make money. Like, there is no way you can be, like, a good analogy is my friend, she's a dentist, and she'll never have to worry about meeting a broke guy example, because she knows that in her circle, there's no one's broke, she'll never meet anyone else broke, so she'll never have to worry about like, oh, I'm gonna meet someone who's broke, because all my circle, everyone is well off, all their friends are well off, so there's no way that I will be dating someone who's like broke, just an example, so like, if you're in a family where everyone's making money, there is no, there's a very low chance of you not making money, if everyone else in your family is like educated, making money, you'll have to be making the choice of like, not wanting to do that to like, not make money, like, like they did a research and study of like, oh, if you, two people can be doing the same thing, but the, you can be a dumber person with less intelligence and less IQ, but if you're born in a family, like, they have a better circumstance, like, you can succeed way more than the person that is born in a family with like, higher intelligence, yeah, and I feel like the stories we hear are just the successful stories of the 1% from the lower circumstance that made it, and there's a lot of people that haven't, but what we don't hear about it, so what were you going to say? When it comes to networking and meeting people and, you know, talking about surrounding yourself with like-minded people, like, with your Instagram, you could just DM, like, a bunch of founders and entrepreneurs around Brisbane, couldn't you? Who? Brisbane? There's probably, there's probably at least 20. Where, where are they, in Sydney? I probably have to like, search like, I remember when I came back, I was living in San Francisco for a bit, and when I came back to Sydney, I had no more money, I had nothing, I had no friends, and- Well, what were you doing in San Francisco? I was working this start-up. I wasn't working, I was like helping out. Tell me- 'Cause like, I was on a tourist visa, so every three months, I was on the tourist- Yeah, so I was flying back and forth. Yup, yup, yup, and then on the fourth time, they rejected me, like on the- Oh, so you were doing a certain month or three months? Yup. Three months, three months, three months? Yes. Why did they reject you? That's horrible, you already got there. So I flew there on the fourth time, they looked at my passport, they were like, "Dude, you've been in America for the last like three times in a row, like nine months straight, you would fly back to Australia, come back after one week, like what's happening here?" And they put me in border security, I was stuck in this sort of like room where they took my phone, there was no Wi-Fi, they interrogated me for 12 hours, and then they sent me back to Australia on another 16-hour flight, so I was so depressed, I was like, "Yeah, that was so good." Yes, they paid- Oh, well, I already had a return ticket, so like- Go through the Mexican border. I guess so, yeah. But now I've got a visa, so I'm allowed to get back to the States. I have a visa to America. I got rejected too, like, I got rejected once in Sydney. No, just like a tourist, like a travel visa, not like a- I'm not a citizen, I could just travel there as a tourist, but I couldn't for like two years, like after I got rejected, I could- every time I applied for Esther, I kept getting rejected, so I was like blacklisted from Esther. Yeah. Oh my god, that was my friend, I was going back to it, like, okay. But when I came back to Sydney, I like lost all my friends, I had no money, because I spent it all in San Francisco, and that was like bad. What do you mean you lost your friends? I think I was like being in San Francisco for nine months, like, when I came back, I was sort of like a different person. All my friends, they were sort of still in university, second year, third year, they were going to raves, they were sort of like drinking, partying, and I was like a completely different person when I came back, so I couldn't relate with any of my friends, they couldn't relate with me. I didn't have contact with them for a whole nine months, and I was all alone. That was me, did you get homesick when you got back? Like, as sometimes the America like- Yes, I was craving to go back, so like, I wanted to get back to America, so- So my mom thinks I'm afraid, like, I still do, I want to go. I think it's fair, I could relate to that, but I think after eventually after getting rejected for like an E3, ejected for B1, B2, I think I'll go rejected three times, then I just sort of gave up and I rebuilt my life in Australia. But before that happened, I remember listening to this guy named, can't remember his name, but he talked about masterminds, and he was like, you should put together dinner, invite a bunch of successful people in your city, and just like, bring them together and connect them, and you'll be the guy that organized it, and it'll be worth it. So that's exactly what I did, I just like, deemed a bunch of founders around Sydney, LinkedIn, like such top entrepreneurs in Sydney, like, see who was suggested, find all these other CEOs, founders, and just invited a bunch of them. Long story short, only two people showed up, and it was supposed to be 10, and 10 people said yes, but a bunch of people flaked the morning off, and I ended up paying a thousand dollars for like, all this sushi and all this food, for only two people that showed up. But yeah, I was able to find a bunch of like-minded people, so I think Instagram, like, especially in your situation, you could probably just DM every single founder, millionaire in Brisbane, and you'll probably get a ton of replies. Well, how did you do the two people? The two people, they were really cool. One of them was like, wow, this is so cool, let's do it again. So I was like, hey, let's collaborate on the next one. So we did another mastermind breakfast this time, because I learned the mistake, don't do it dinner, because people flaked due first thing in the morning, and she brought like 10 of her friends, I only brought one person, so she carried it, and bam, I met like another 10 founders in Sydney. And what about now, are you still doing the mastermind thing? After that, I stopped doing it. I think like, like out of all those people, I think maybe sometimes message and talk to her, but I found out that all my mentors and all the people that are in my life, I sort of just organically meet from going to random things I say yes to, and saying yes to everything has been more powerful for networking versus sort of just cold outreach. Plus, I have the podcast, so I think the podcast helps drastically. I think if I didn't have the podcast, I still might be doing the mastermind dinners maybe. Yeah, I see. Yeah, I think I do have few friends like that I do talk to now about this kind of stuff. But yeah, no one in Brisbane, I don't mind that. I'm not too, I think it'll be better if I did, but I know to like find the person that I can vibe with, and also being in a that I can learn with, I mean, I can learn with like from anyone, but I might not vibe with everyone. So I think the energy to put in to like find few people, my just doesn't seem ethical me right now in Brisbane. And I know there is definitely like a lot of people in Brisbane that I can like really vibe with and like, like talk about this stuff with. But yeah, I just don't have the energy right now to like do that. The people that when I was in America, I was such a different story. San Francisco, it's only one. Like, okay, before you say anything, like when I was in America, like for content, for business, like content creators that are just on another level, and they're so much more collaborative. For me, I'm the kind of person that if I succeed, I want all my friends and family to succeed, you know, like if I succeed, I want to help my friends. But I feel like people don't like here, I don't find many people that would do the same for me. Like when I was applying for engineering jobs, because my resume was like, really, really good. Like I would, I would share all my job listing to them and find them in a room without me applying for jobs without me to a company that they didn't tell me about, even though I made a whole list for them. And then I just felt like, and I was like, oh, why didn't you tell me? And they're like, well, you, you'll definitely get in because you guys are so good. And I'm like, you're not competing with me, you're competing with the rest of Australia. Like, anyways, I have no problem of like, I have zero calculative. I don't know if that's the best word. I'm just not calculated at all. So, but in America, I just meet people a lot more easier. And I think they're more like, I was listening to someone. And they said that when they go America, like, they just, a lot of people are more open. I think in Australia, like, people don't invite you to their family home. You don't talk about your salaries. It's a lot more harder to be getting to know people on a deeper level. I think in America, because the college you go to, like, especially people in Sydney, I think everyone grew up in Sydney, they have their own clicks. And they just stick with their own clicks. In America, you go to college, you're from, I don't know, wherever you're from, like, everyone pretty much don't know anyone. So you have to make friends from scratch. And the friends become family. So you get really close to people like that. So when I was like, doing content, creating, when I came out of my rut after, like, being sad, I started to meet people, but I was already near the end of my, like, visa. So I took them back at the end of my savings. And it was really easy to meet people. It was really easy to collaborate with people. And every time I met them, like, they're just doing, I don't know a tree, but, or maybe just my luck. Every time I meet someone there, like, they're doing insane things. Like, things, I don't think I will ever have a chance to be in Australia. Like all my friends in America are very successful. Like all my friends here are successful, but in the corporate world, you know, like, like all my friends there, a lot of people I meet there, they're doing very out of world, like, out of Australia kind of thing. Doing things that's very unconventional, like just so different, even with the content, vision is so grand. And it makes you want to do, like, massive things, because you're around all these people that's doing things that's so ambitious. I think in Australia, like, people go to the job and they're very chilled. Everything is just so chilled. But when you're there, it's like, it's chilled, but they also party has to work really hard. So everything is just so extreme. And I'm that type of person. So when I went to UCLA, and like, I was like, wow, this, like, so many, because in Australia, like, I feel like I'm like a hard out, like, like, I'm like a try hard. Sorry, a try hard. I feel like that's a better word. Where's over there? I feel like I'm very normal. And maybe even like, not try hard, not try hard enough. Yeah, how did you find it? Is that like, what was your experience in San Fran? And what the hell was the startup? Oh my god. That's crazy. You lived my dream. That was my dream. I was then 2019, the team at the time, they did a lot of Kickstarter. So they were in the e-comm space, that Kickstarter projects, like they had a knife, pocket knife brand, have a music chess brand. And when I came in, they're also starting this like healthcare app at the time. Hey, how'd you find these people? So Vinny, one of like the bosses, like, right hand, he was watching my YouTube channel, learning Facebook ads, because he needed to learn Facebook ads for the music chess brand. So he was watching my content, like, every single video, and eventually booked in a call, I thought he needed mentorship. And then I ended up talking to his boss, and they're like, hey, if you ever in the States, like, let us know, we'll show you around. And I was like, I'm gonna take it on the offer. And then I think a week later, I booked a ticket, and I flew to the States. And that 10 days, turned into 30 days, turned into three months, turned into like nine months. Where did you stay? How did you afford it? Yeah, so Vincent, he had a guest room in his sort of like, he had this like three story like house in San Francisco. So I stayed in his guest room. I say it's so expensive there. And then at first he chart like at first I stayed for three for the first 10 days. Then he started telling me to pay for rent. So I was paying two grand a month USD in rent for just that one guest bedroom. And it was like a shared kitchen, shared bathroom. But I sort of had that place to my own ish. But it was like the communal area. Is that USD or USD USD? And then that then he lowered it to a thousand. So that helped. And then I ran through all my savings. So after the nine months, I had no more money. But you paused your own work. Yes, I paused my work with him or like, I paused my YouTube channel. I paused my dropshipping. I paused everything and went all in on his vision. And how was that? And I think I made no money but I learned so much. It was such a great learning experience. I think it put me way ahead of all the people that were, I guess, all my peers when I came back. But then I think it took me like, like for the longest time, I think the version of Andy that didn't go to America, he would have had more money than the version that did. And I was probably behind that different timeline Andy for like five years. And it probably took five years for me to now overtake and exponentially. Like financially, I'm like bleeding out. So I guess I haven't financially overtaken him. But I think just like mentally, socially, physically, everything I'm like peeking at. And I think the version of Andy that just stayed in Australia would not be where I am today. Yeah. Yeah, I always like, I'm not the kind of person that's like born in a place, live in a place, work in the place and then die in the place, like the same place. And I don't think, well, I don't think anyone should ever do that. But like a lot of people are happy that way. But for me personally, I would just at least have to like go somewhere else, especially if you're doing things that's not conventional in Australia. Yeah, you have to like go somewhere else. Oh my God, like San Francisco, like, and then what happened to his vision? Did it work out? So the 5 p.m. the health care app, that sort of didn't work out and that dissipated. But he still worked on the Kickstarter's. And then when I was leaving, they started getting to a different business called get around car sharing. And they sort of moved to Las Vegas now. He still has his place in SF, San Francisco, but I think he's looking to sell that. And the team is now sort of split up. Everyone's sort of doing their own thing. But I still contact them. I still talk to them. Yeah. So how did the app like the car sharing did it work out? So the car sharing, they're still doing now. And I think that still makes money. The app was this health care app where in America, I think there's like three categories. There's like nursing homes, assisted living, RCFVs, skilled nursing. I don't know, there's like these four different categories that doctors would refer patients to. And right now, doctors would just give the patients brochures. And usually, they'll legally recommend their friends or someone they might have like a kickback from. They might refer like a partner's nursing home. And there's like a lot of like a galleries behind that. So we sort of build an app where we had all the health care options on an app. So the doctor would just give the patient the app and the patient could make a skilled decision on their own. And then all these facilities, they would pay to be on the app. So that's what we were trying to push. And then that didn't work out. And you were working for them while you go back. When I got back to Australia, I tried still helping from overseas, but eventually I just, I couldn't. And I just had to go back to like rebuilding my own life in Sydney. Go back. Like, how do you think you're just still working with them? So do you think it would be better if you went back? Or do you think you're happy with like coming back here and building it here? I think for the next year, I was trying really, really hard to get a visa to go back to the States, because I just loved how fast moving it was. I loved the family. That was a part of, I had people that really had my back and cared for me. And I just felt like I was growing at such quick pace. But then after being rejected many times and being forced to rebuild things in Sydney, after like three, four years as I've rebuilt a solid base. And even now, like I've no longer any cravings to go back to the States. I think looking at where San Francisco and LA is at now, it doesn't look, like I think 2019 was like its peak. Like I think 2019, every coffee store you would go to in San Francisco, you'll see meetings with like startup founders, with angel investors, you'll go to like a bouldering gym and everyone there's in tech and everyone's like a developer. It had that sort of vibe and I don't think that vibe exists anymore. But at the same time, I think I figured out Sydney, I figured out my social life. And also, I've gone into a place where I'm no longer craving to be surrounded by a sort of like-minded people. I'm happy doing my own thing and I'm content with doing my own thing. And I enjoy sort of meeting people once every few months, different people's at different walks of life in my circle. So I think for those two reasons, I'm pretty happy back in Sydney, yeah. I don't know if I can get to that point in Brisbane. Yeah, I think Brisbane's a bit different, but then I guess like if I was able to do it from like SF to Sydney, you might be able to do the same thing from the change from LA to- Because you're also like, eventually you're going to trend towards doing your own thing, having a more secluded life, having like partying, meeting people, going to festivals, becoming less and less of a priority, meeting cool, funny, cool people. Like I didn't do that anyways, ever. Well, maybe when I was 21, but like I haven't done that in such a long time, like that's not what I desire. I think it's just more, and I realize like you can never try and make something work when you just doesn't work. Like you're trying, I'm trying to change my environment when I can change my environment, you know. It's just easier. And there's like in economics, it's called like the invisible hand. So everything, there's an invisible hand guiding everything in economy. Example, when you have a bunch of dropshippers, only the best can succeed. And it's invisible hand guiding, only the best can succeed in any kind of industry. And like it's guiding the economy in a way that there's, it's called an invisible hand. So I feel like me not letting my vibes choose, and I'm trying to force myself to make something work. And I know you can, and I can probably become, I think mentally, I just have to become more like grateful towards like what I have now here. But I think in the back of my head, I always know that I want to be over there for now, especially like not having like, you know, kids or husband, like having a whole family that is tying me down to like one place. And whilst I'm still trying to myself off, like at a place where everyone else is also trying to do the same thing is better. I think Sydney is a lot better than Brisbane. I feel like a lot of those those in Brisbane, they probably do just keep to themselves. And there are a lot of 16 Queensland in Gold Coast, you know, I don't, I would like to be in that circle, but I don't in that circle, even though I like to be. But I think it's a bit easier for me to be doing that in America. So yeah, like you said, I just have to be doing my own thing and be okay with like doing my own thing and figure myself out. And then I can attract rather than like, I feel like now if I go, I'll be chasing, attracting. And to me, it's more about I have, I want the option to be able to be anywhere, anytime, not bound to one place. I think that's probably the next, the goal is to my old job and to be able to be anywhere I like to be rather than always have to be in one place. Yeah. Because I think it's probably a good chance that a lot of people that you might want to chase, they're probably looking at your life and your story and they wish to be you. Yeah, maybe. Because I think you have a pretty cool story. And there's a reason why people fake these sort of tough upbringing stories, because it's something that people want. And then, and people, you know, people want to be able to do that own thing. People want to have sort of a social media presence. And I think there's like a good chance that like, there's a lot of people that you'd want to trade places with, they'd want to trade places with you. And I think all those stories are cool. It'll be even cooler when I'm like, I don't doing a TED talk, you know? Otherwise, it's just a story. And we're still going through it, going through the story and chapters. But yeah, that's why I'm more interested in YouTube now rather than like actually building a community rather than like just doing fast paced short videos. And for the short videos, I want to be more like, I'm trying to do more storytelling and cinematic kind of looks. So I have to learn a lot about cameras and editing. So it's a whole other skill to be doing that. And I do love my story. Like, I do really like everything I have done. And sometimes I'm forgetting that because I'm in a space where a lot of the people, they have their own story and they have very similar story. And I'm like thinking, like, I felt like I was trying to be like them. And then I think a few months back, I'm like, I really, everything I have done. And I'm forgetting about it, like, I can build a really, really cool financial model. And I can do that for any kind of business. And I'm not utilizing all these things. And actually, I'm really good at teaching. I'm really good at math. And all these things, I'm really good at being a student at university seven years. So I'm a pro. So I feel like there's so many things about me that I couldn't, I haven't been able to like share or lessons that I haven't been making content about that would love to do. So I think now I'm coming into a space where I want to do a lot of the things that matter to me. And they still matter to me. But I feel like I buried them under all these like, oh, I want to be like other people. I want to do things about fashion. I want to do things about like, I do love those things too. But there's so many other layers that I think is more or I guess valuable and things that I'm forgetting and that I also enjoy. Because especially when I worked at the bank, I couldn't like the like, you couldn't say anything on social media that a strict social media rule. So I couldn't. And also after I found out that girl, like that gave me a big scare of sharing anything about my personal life on social media, like sharing anywhere I worked. And I now I see a lot of the people sharing like their nine to five, sharing, working at corporate, being in finance. And I'm like, Oh, wow, like, I had all the opportunity, but I just didn't. I was too scared. But yeah, now I'm becoming less and less. What's the word out of touch? To like the nine to five, I'm like out of it, but I had the opportunity, but I didn't like make content about it or talk about it. And now, and I was like, I'm not a separator, but it was a part of me. But now it's coming together where I'm like, Oh, I can use everything from my past to make content. Or I don't know, share with other people and teach other people or these like useful I used to want to do and forgot. And now I'm remembering again. All right, great. I think YouTube is like the way to go. Do ads. I need to learn how to do ads. You can, can you review our ads? What's your rate? I can, I can review your ads for free. I'll give you my two cent. And then I'll, I'll, I'll give you one or two pointers they can take away. Most definitely. Yes, I can do that. What is your goal, right? You're trying to grow your course, or are you trying to grow your dropshipping? Or are you trying to? What is where are you heading? My five year goal by 30, this is just my goal. I want to have my second kid at 30. So that means I would have to find, like have my first kid at around like 29. I don't have a girlfriend yet. So I'm going to have to meet someone really amazing in the next two, three years. I was like, this guy has a kid already. I was trying to look at how I was like, Yeah, if I look backwards, like second kid, I was like, he's going through all this stuff. Where he's going through, I was like, wow, he went through all these things with a kid. What am I doing? First, didn't even have a girlfriend. So I got like two years to figure that out. So I got, so that's the main goal. And I think by 30, I'd want to be like financially really secure. I'd like to have like a nice family home. I want to make sure my mom is looked up. You want your second kid at 30? Yes. Okay. What else? So I think, So that's a family. So financially, I'd have to be secure, looked after mom, have a nice house, like probably doing pretty well. I think to get there, I think the biggest thing that's going to help me get there, sort of building a personal brand. So I'm going very hard on YouTube over the next year. I think that's going to be my main focus doing YouTube, giving as much value as possible, figuring out the whole retention game, the quick through rate game, figure out how to give the most value possible, get as much reach as possible, build a community, funnel that into my education programs. And eventually, if I grow the personal brand, I think opportunities are just going to come to me similar to like how I went to SF. That came from my YouTube channel. I think I'll start picking up opportunities that make sense instead of keep continuing sharing my story. Eventually, but I think right now just focus on YouTube, educational content, e-commerce, Facebook ads content, give everything away for free. That's the current plan. Yeah. And then your course, are you teaching the same thing in your course? So the course is probably going to be one-on-one mentorship, more tailored advice. Technically, if they watch all my YouTube videos, they could get everything for free and figure things out and adapt it to their own business. So I'm only like people who are paying, they just want that personalized feedback, I guess. But I want to try and give everything away for free. Are you running ads like now? Because you're not doing it for your drop shipping website. So sorry, is that your means? For the educational stuff, teaching ads. So the education stuff is, yeah, so we teach people how to go from zero to 100k through e-comm, we show them everything. I guess just me, and we have the developers that build out the education platform, Study.com, then we have the appointment setters that people usually talk to to get to me. I used to have a sales rep. So those are the people that are related to Study.com. So study, Study.com. Study. Study. You are not domain? Study.com? You are domain? I'm not. I bought it for 40,000, 41,000 Australians, 28,000 USD three years ago, four years ago maybe. Or like ever, or for like, yeah, I own it forever. Now just pay for like the yearly maintenance. Exactly. The, I think, $20 a year. That's crazy. How much is it worth now? Have you got any offers? I got like some spam offers. I'm like, hey, can I buy a domain for 5k? I've got in a few of those. That's so cool. And then what? Oh, I was just saying, there's still this lag, Cassie, that's making this up, but I'm trying to adapt to the lag. But right now, I think it could probably go 400k, I'm guessing. And that platform is you, you have your videos there to that people can go through. Yeah, so I'm building my own LMS. Yeah, I'm building out my own LMS, a learning management system. And it's sort of like, it's similar to like Kajabi, Coursera. And then what is Kajabi? Kajabi is similar to like school, school. It's sort of like a platform where you can host your own courses, have videos, have folders, we game. Like David, like David, David, is that his name? David? David for Garthi. Oli, Odi, Odi. Yeah, I think he, he doesn't have his own LMS. I think he just hosts his course on like a, any, like on a platform. Yeah, on schools, because I'm in a, and they have chats that they have, it's like a Facebook group. Are you in mastermind, the group, Facebook group? I think there's one group. That's very good. Because it's my friend. Oh my god, you have to be my friend. He's really good at AI. Who's that guy with the cap, Christo? Yes. Yeah. So he works with Christo, and they're doing like a lot of cool AI stuff. He's in Sydney. Did you guys shoot me? I wish I connect him to my friends. Yeah, he, he has like, he's like a genius in AI world. So he's a videographer, but now he's so good at AI that companies are paying him to be like the AI consultant. Because he's really good at like building bots. He's really good at prompting. He overcoat, encode that he read like a whole shelf, like two shelves of books. I don't know if he finished all of them, but I know that he at least like, speed read them. Like, yeah. So he's, and he's got his side, uh, psychology psych, and what's the other one? Second, I mean, he has some, the deployment in the psychology, psychologic. Yeah, one of them, the one that like, so he's like bringing like psychology into videography, and like, but now he's like doing AI. So he doesn't want to do the video video stuff anymore. Um, yeah, but I think AI is like, do you use them much? I use chat should be T a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's in a, um, yeah, I think you guys should just meet like, he's got a lot of knowledge that's like really useful because he helped me with my um, he's got like boss that I use to help me with my content creation and like copywriting, which I'm, um, yeah, like he, he even user to do like therapy and all that kind of stuff. So I think he would be a good person for you to like talk to and like, I think it would be really helpful. Um, but that's awesome. So you're making videos for the, for your website to put on the website and the developer is making the website cool and usable and stuff. So we build the, the platform from scratch. Um, so I'm hosting videos on it. Um, we gamified it where when people watch videos, they earn like studying coins and they can use that to buy other courses. It's similar to school. Um, and now we're also building out like a CRM because I'm doing a lot of lead nurturing type of sales. So right now I have everything on Excel sheet. I guess I could use like a hub staff, hub spot or sales force, but I don't know, it's not really good for lead nurturing the way I want to. So we're building that into studying.com. So right, I'm just building what I like. I'm the only person that uses studying.com. I'm building it for myself at the moment. Oh, wow. And you can expand it to like, the, the, you're looking to expand it for other people to teach on that. Is that? I think the goal is if I can, yeah, I think if I can build something that organically can grow my courses through the referral mechanisms we have, I build something that can really help me ease my sales process and get a lot of students coming in. If I can do it well for myself, others teachers would want to come on my platform to use what I'm using for myself. So I think that's the long term goal. Yeah. So can you say the last 10? Right now I'm building something where the goal of studying.com is one, build a ecosystem where I could organically grow. Like if I gave my course away for free, people would refer other friends, sign up in order to like unlock the free courses, build something that allows organic growth. And two, build something that can really ease my lead nurturing process when it comes to nurturing leads, turning leads into paying customers. And if I can do those two things successfully for myself, then other teachers, other coaches would want to come on studying.com. How, if the giving your course for free, when they pay, is it just more in depth or do they just get you one on one? Like how does, what are they paying for? Right now people are paying for my one on one time. A lot of my courses you can get for free on YouTube. So they're just getting that tailored one on one help. That's what they're paying for. But they're not paying anything for the course or anything. So it depends like I have a structured course that they would get when it comes to paying for my one on one mentorship program. That's paid and that only keep for paid students. But there's like a lot of other mini free courses you can get within studying.com. And a lot of those mini courses you can also find on my YouTube channel. Okay, so it's pretty much a pain to have a structured version of all the stuff that's free. And there's probably other few things in there, but mainly your time. And the main course I have to break the cycle experience. That probably has like 20 hours of content. And that's not on YouTube that you would have to pay to get access to. I see. But you give out a lot of your stuff out there already. Technically, I feel like every single industry, every single niche where there's like crypto, stock trading, Airbnb, dropshipping, all the information is out there for free on YouTube. So I think, yeah, but to have a structured and cleaned. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is when someone pays for something, they're more action. Rather than you say, if things are free, like they value it more. And then for them, it's like, oh, I paid for it. I have to like do it. They won't value it when it's just like given to them. Have you done other courses by other people? Which one? The last two times, like the last course I did was, I did this like 10K one-on-one mentorship program from this guy named Oma Lata. He had like this podcast called The Passionate Food. And he really helped me figure out my mentorship program. And he got me into podcasting. I did another course by these guys named Steve in Evan town. It was like a 12K weekend mastermind retreat in Pukeat. And there were these guys that did like 400K, 300K days dropshipping. And prior to that, there was this guy named Justin Wall, where I think I paid him like 5K for one-on-one help. And he taught me how to scale my Facebook ads. And prior to that, I spent a lot of money just downloading courses. Like there was this platform where you can pay like $50 a month or something. And it was like a group share where they'll funnel that money into buying courses and everyone in the group would share that paid course. So I went through a lot of courses through that. So do you filter out what is useful, what's not useful and then you made your own? And then my own course, I just built what I would have wanted. So I think all the courses I consume, none of them, well I guess, like the masterminds, the Facebook ads scaling, they weren't really videos. They're all sort of in-person one-on-one help. And I guess I translated that into videos for myself and for my students and clients, yeah. Yeah, so your students have saving time rather than going through, I guess, your seven years of experience, they can now get that knowledge and that experience like consist and be able to consume it easier. I see. Do you like Charlie? Charlie? Oh, I forgot his last name. Have you heard of the Charlie guy? Charlie Knight. Charlie? Is he in dropshipping or? Just like the funneling thingy. Funnel, funneling Charlie. Is it Charlie? Russell Russell Brunson? I got his 10k course and I just, it was 170 hours. Whoa, and then what did you get for the 10k? I didn't pay my friend got it because, like, so my friend's friend is like, he gets students to, so he like, he has like millions of followers and then, but he doesn't give a lot of like money from it, but people, so people pay him maybe 3k a month on the retaining like three month contract to learn about social media, to build a social media presence from him. So he has like a few clients, so he was making like 10k a month. He's still, he's like 20 and then he realized like, that's not getting him like the most clients. So he made his another Instagram starting from scratch and he was just giving out values and trying to collect people and then getting like people, if you don't get 10k views in a week, you can get a refund kind of like claim. And then 100k in the month, in the first month for views, you'll get your full refund. So he built like this course and I think that's like getting him a lot more money and then his whole thing is like, I went viral but he didn't get me client. You have to like, so he's like a proven case because he did it himself and then now he's like teaching other people how to do it. Anyway, so my, that's my friend's friend and then he gave it to him and then he gave it to me. So because my friend, he's trying to funnel, what do you, like contractors, contractors with over 300k to build up their social media. So he's trying to like, do that. And I think this guy teaches that whole thing about how to get leads. So getting businesses like call calling, emailing a whole list of potential clients, like fact filtering out like all the contractors in this area that like, and then you called email them. Oh my god, there's so many scams and like, I keep getting like messages and I think, oh my god, it's a potential customer. But then it's like, oh, your store can be improved. Do you need help? Yeah, yeah. I'm like, so I'm starting to hate all of them. Let me find out what, because I think the biggest thing that we both can do is just growing our following. Like for you, growing the following for your brand, for the bracelets, getting more reach and money will come. Like, do you have a lot of case studies to bring someone to 100k? Check out my last three YouTube videos. Is that your students or is that your own? Three different, three different students, three different case studies, very transparent. You can see what it's like when I'm working with someone one on one. Yeah, watch the last three YouTube videos. I put in a lot of effort. Charlie Morgan, all of that rings a bell. Yeah, apparently like, because I did a lot of research into like these courses, because my friend keeps looking, listening to him look better and I listened to one of his video and just was making me mad because I study economics and he was talking about how money works. And he just felt like he was just taking a full one side of how money works. Anyways, and then I looked into his background and I just found so much dirt on him and I just felt like I'm like, stop listening to guys who lie to the world about who they are. How can you trust them when they are just trying to get money from you? Anyways, what are you going to say? I was talking about like, I think REACH is probably the most important thing like with every business and like you focusing on trying to get as much organic reach as you can for your brand. That's and the money will come. Yeah, because when we did paid ads, I just feel like the money's just like gone in a hole and then it's gone forever. So yeah, now we're focusing on organic content a lot more. But I still want to do Facebook ads. I think the strategy for you would be post organic content consistently every day, every second day. Do it until you have a viral video that converts. Let's say you got a hundred thousand views and you brought in a thousand dollars in revenue. Now what you can go ahead and do is put paid ads behind that viral video. Yeah, like I had a video going for like it's got 450k views. And then we that's the first ad that we talk on. But I realized my target audience is like older and they're probably on Facebook more. So that's why I want to run Facebook ads because organic content will not reach those type of people. They're like the older crowd. And I see my competitors doing a lot of ads. And that's how a lot of their sales are from because they're reaching out to those people that's not really on social media. Like you have all these like old people. And that's my target audience. Like the older generation with money, people that's like 25, 28 plus. Whereas I've only been making content for, I guess I was thinking about it in the more Gen Z way. And yeah, like I definitely know that you have to put a lot more content now to see what works, what doesn't. So that's probably the process I'm going going through right now. But I can be your case study. I'll make videos. I'll give you a lot of reviews. We can make a collab video. Hi guys. I'm at 100k now. I'm one. I'm more than happy. We can do one consulting call. You can show me your ad account. You can show me your things. I'll give you like five action items. And if you do the five action items, we'll jump on another call. If you don't and you procrastinated and you so didn't, then I guess it is what it is. If I'm happy, I'm more than happy to do that. Do you recommend us watching all your stuff? I think I recommend you watching my last three YouTube videos. Let me know your thoughts. I'm more than happy to see how it can help out. Yeah. All right. Tell me about the braces you raised. You have three of them. You told me that each one means something different. Tell me about the different bracelets, Cassie. Okay. The ones I'm wearing currently, this one helps with my sleep. So this is Moonstone. So Moonstone is helping me with my sleep. It's really, really pretty. Like last night, I actually got sleep paralysis. Do you get them? Is that REM sleep? You don't get sleep paralysis. You've never gotten it before. Is that when you can't move? That's REM sleep. When you go into REM and you dream, you can't move. Yeah, but you're awake. Oh, I've never been awake. Well, you know, I guess sometimes I wake up and I'll be frozen for a bit and then I'll move after. Well, I hallucinate. So I hallucinated, like, I am my mom and my sister was running towards it, but I couldn't move. And I thought I started a fire. Anyways, like, I just couldn't sleep. It was like 4 or 5 a.m. And I had like three sleep paralysis every time I tried to sleep. So it was like daytime already. Anyway, I put this back on because I normally take it off when I'm sleeping, but this one helps with my sleep. So I put it back on and that helped me get to sleep. And the thing is, a lot of these things, I guess you have to believe it or to work as well, because I do watch a lot of TED talks about placebo effect. So there's that aspect as well, but there's also signs like backing all these things up as well. Anyways, so it depends on every person's their own belief. But example, like Feng Shui, the number one rule is like declutter. And that was long before science proved that you need to declutter your space. But Feng Shui already like proved that like number one rule is like you have to declutter your space, let go of the old things to like bring in better energy. So I believe in energy a lot. And the second one, it's called some stone. So we don't actually sell this, but this one is because I'm missing file. So in the Chinese culture, you have a box that you have five elements in your birth. When you on your birthday of your birth chart, I guess it's like the Chinese version of like your birth chart. So you give your birthday the time of your birth to like the entree master and then they give you the five elements you have and what you're missing. So example, I'm missing fire and wood. So I should wear a lot more red clothes and wear, have like don't wear metal earrings because I have too much metal elements. So I should be wearing like more timber would have my furnishes like wood to balance it out. So I'm wearing like the red representing fire to balance it out. And then this one is like, this is the main one that we sell. So I've been wearing this for like years and years. Not this particular one, like I go through a lot because in the Chinese culture, when something is broken, like especially like jewelry and like feng shui jewelry, when it breaks, it means like it's helping you avoid something bad. There's a saying in China where you lose wealth, but you're avoiding a disaster. So say something was supposed to bad happen to you, but because that thing happened, that's already a bad thing. So you're avoiding something else that's bad because this is bad. And you rather have financial loss than other losses in life. Like health, that's like way more important. So losing money is thinking of it as a way to like you're balancing it out, you're balancing, you're avoiding something else that's bad. So anyway, I went through a lot of these bracelets. So when it breaks, we don't restring it. We're just like, move on to the next one because it's it helps your voice something bad. So this is a Picho bracelet. Picho is a dragon. I think in the Vietnamese culture, a lot of people know about this too. In the Chinese culture, like in the whole Asia, like when you go Asia, a lot of men wear this because it's like a symbol of success. Picho is a dragon and it doesn't have a bum hole. Because it like the story is that Picho is like one of the dragons and he went to the palace to visit like the emperor and it pooped or over the temp like the palace and then they removed its bum hole and Picho is a dragon that eats gold and silver. So it attracts wealth, but it doesn't have any outflow. So it's just attracting wealth. So you when you wear it, you wear it facing out. So it's attracting wealth. So this symbols abundance and luck and attracting fortune and wealth and the black obsidian is made out of lava. So when lava cools down really quick at the top, it's it forms like a glass-like material. So this is made out of lava and obsidian is used. Do you watch Marvel? Are you a Marvel fan? Yeah, it was an Agnes like the latest show, but it's about a show about witches and like obsidian is used like in a lot of cultures and throughout history is a grounding stone. So this helps protect you. So this is a protection stone. So together it's protection, luck and attracting wealth and you rub it to pet it and it kind of serves you. So anytime I'm anxious, I'm like petting it. Or anytime I'm like trading crypto, I'm like petting. Do you trade crypto? No, or anytime I'm like trying to have a good luck, I'm like, yes, the same dragon and mula. No, that's Mushu. So Mushu is a name, but that one is a dragon. So that's an OG dragon. But this one is a so it's got a dragon head, but it's got a lion body and it's got wings, I think. Yeah, so it's got like different parts from different animals. But yeah, so in Asia, like you'll see this bracelet a lot, a lot of people wear it and they wear 24 carats, the P-shirt. How much does 24 carat cost? We're actually going to look into sell it. It depends on the weight because gold is sold by weight. And the thing is it's hollow on the inside. So the heavier it is and the bigger you get, the more it is easier to damage. So you have to get a higher weight of gold. So we're thinking of selecting maybe like a affordable option, like a small one and then a medium one like this, maybe like $1,000 and then like a bigger one, you'll be up to the person like customized to whatever they like. But I think it will be starting at like maybe 500 for 24 carat. Yeah, I think it's a perfect gift for anyone who wants to start their new life or their new career. Like I have people putting in orders and telling me their stories. I guess for me it's like I'm starting a new chapter and I'm really like this bracelet kind of representing me starting a new chapter and then people are watching my journey. So a lot of people I'm getting this like they either have a business themselves, like you know, you need that extra symbol and boost in your life and reminder for you every day to be like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm all in. I can attract, I don't chase, all that kind of things. People put notes in the shopping cart like, hey, I'm just starting leaving my nine to five, starting a new job and buying it for my brother who's also doing the same thing. Like, yeah, so a lot of people like that needing that extra boost extra luck. We are always into Feng Shui even when you were in the corporate world. So I always wore this like all the time and I think Feng Shui for us because our family came from so we were so came from like nothing. Okay, me and my sister were pretty much illegal because we were born during the one child policy. And the thing is, so China puts the belief that you only need one child. One child is perfect child. But because you can only afford one child, so a lot of people can only have one child. So for my mom, she struggled a lot growing up. She didn't like I hardly even stole her. So my sister, my oldest sister was with her boarding school. So she got sent to boarding in China. Normally, when you're in high school, you actually stay at the school. And then my little sister was living with my auntie because my mom was by herself. She couldn't look after all of us. And I was living with my mom. So this is for a period of time. Like, we were always moving like my oldest sister might be at her dad's or like her other grandma would look after her. And like, so we never really like live together together because my mom just couldn't look after us. And my mom only started believing in Feng Shui and started learning about Feng Shui because one time we, so we moved a lot as a kid. Yeah, like the places we were living at was just very, what do you call it? I don't know the word, but it's just very, very different to like the places you see in Australia. Like it's very slum. Maybe that might be the word. It's, I don't know, get a typical developing country apartments. So my mom moved into a new place and we had things started happening to us. Sorry, it's a bit superstitious as well. And a bit like, well, like that probably didn't happen anyway, but this is what happened. So when we moved to a new place, like I think my oldest sister was like sleepwalking a lot. And when she was sleepwalk, she would like pee, which is like she's never done that. And then I guess it was like just felt like a bad energy around the house. And then my mom's friend was like, oh, did you choose a good date? And then my mom was like, why, why will we choose a date? So there's like energies every like different days. So that's why people always go to a form of tree master to select a date for their marriage, for their business, for anything that's important, you should select a date in form of trade. So that's when she started learning more and more about form of trade, to help her manifest like I guess the life we have now. And because seeing her learning about it, implementing it, I started to believe in it as well. And then learning, because I'm doing engineering, like I'm pretty scientific. But I also know that there's things I cannot be explained by science, and I believe in energy. So I understand like the final time, well, maybe I don't, but so I know like there's beliefs, and then there's like science. And then I think like form trade force into the two, where you're kind of, because it's been around for like 3000 years, it's like a study that's, or it's a practice that's been done like for so long, that it doesn't hurt to believe in it. So yeah, I have been believing it for a long time. Like every time I look for an apartment, I'll tell my mom will ask her, Hey, like, what do you think of this? And then she'll tell me like the flow of energy, how it is like why it's not good. Why is yeah, why it's not good. That's why I haven't moved for like five years when I was in Sydney, because I just couldn't find an apartment that was like good. And I was like, I can't be bothered. Like there's too much work. Tell me about the necklace. You had this cool necklace. Yeah, do you believe in energy or like do you believe in? Are you a religious person? I think I do believe in energy. Yeah, I think I do believe in energy, vibrations, karma, so of how everything is connected in the universe, manifestation. So this is also like two dragons. Yeah. So this is obsidian. Obsidian is a rounding and protection stone. Where's obsidian come from? Is it from like deep, deep earth? No, lava. So when lava comes out and it's on the top. So when lava comes out, it cools down really quickly. So I study this in the intro to earth, a thing in engineering. So when the lava comes out, it's like, it's a layer, right? And different layer will have different cooling temperature, and you have different kinds of bubbles. And so that on the top, it cools down really quickly. But it's also very a lot of holes, because the bubbles are coming out like from water. So that power is called like, there's like, Thomas, that's a rock that it ends up, do you know Thomas rock? So it's like very like holy. So that part is because there's a lot of bubbles. So this, this is coming from the lava as well, like where it cools down very quickly. So this will end up with like a glass like texture. And then you can tell if it's fake or real, because when the light shines through it, there's like different wavelength. Do people mind obsidian from like a volcano? They literally, I have videos, they literally go to like the near the volcano and they like dig it. Like around the volcano, because it erupts and then they go and like get the rocks. Wow. What's your thought on Jade? Pardon? What's your thought on Jade? I actually did a video about Jade, like on my last Instagram, because we went to the biggest Jade market. So Jade is like the longest, I guess, valuable story. Like in America, like in the Western world, there's gold and diamond. But in China, it's Jade. In the olden times, only rich people were able to afford Jade or wear Jade. And they have Jade pillows. They have Jade jewelry. And only the rich can have that. So I think in any kind of culture, when back in the days is like only the rich people can have it and then become precious. So I think that's why a lot of Chinese people, I think it's a symbol of status. It's a symbol of abundance. It's a symbol of wealth. So in China, it's very, very popular. And I actually have been, it's funny you asked me because two days ago, I literally spent a whole day studying Jade. Like how to find a good Jade? What is a different grading in Jade? Yeah, there's just a lot of like different grades in Jade out there, because it's such a popular item in the Asian community. I really, really like Jade. I like the way it looks. And I like what it represents. So we have Jade and now store and I actually just imported like even higher quality Jade. That's like a lot more expensive. But I think the direction of the store that we're looking at going is more in that higher end, but also having things that's affordable. And I have to study a lot about this kind of stuff. So I think until I started the business, I didn't really read into everything as much. But because I'm doing something in this area, I have to really understand it and not rely on my mom. Yeah. Do you believe in Feng Shui? I think I do. If someone told me, Hey, like this house is bad luck. Oh, like I'm trying to think, like if I got a good deal on a house, but I was told it's bad luck, will I pull through or would I exit? I think I feel like you feel a person that would not be like if someone did it. And if it's bad luck, but because I thought it's put into you, you might like always think about it. But if your energy is so strong, I believe you can like block anything. But you might as well just check the energy rather than working so hard yourself. Like if someone told you like, Hey, your office can be rearranged so that it's got better flow or like better energy. Because I think where you work is very important. Example, like I have my wealth corner. So this is another thing in Feng Shui. I think you'll find pretty cool. Please. Especially for business owners. So this is called a wealth corner. So it's 45 degrees from my door. Yep. I have such a nice room. And I think, and I can scientifically, I like to explain it in science as well, because it's 45 degrees where's my door there. And then the first thing you see is this wealth corner. So if you think about it, so it's a place where you put things that attracts wealth. So in Feng Shui, the pretty show is a symbol of wealth. So you'll see this at a lot of a Vietnamese restaurant as well. A Vietnamese restaurant. Oh my god. Every Vietnamese restaurant, you'll see a lot of Feng Shui. You know, have you seen it? Like the frog that has like money in the mouth. Have you seen that in the viet? Yes. That is to attract wealth. That's called the three leg toad. So that is a symbol of a attracting wealth, especially for businesses. You'll see it in a lot of Vietnamese restaurant. So this is my wealth corner. So Pisha is a symbol of the two dragons. They attract wealth and they've got a hundred dollar note in that. And this is called a wealth ball. And the wealth ball is called like different kind of crystal in there to represent the five elements. And then this, this is a golden ingot. So in the olden days, this is what gold, you know, how in America, it's like gold bars. So in the olden days, this is how gold came in in China. Underneath that, there's five emperor's coin. Wow. The five emperor's coin is it's a replica. Obviously, it's not the actual ones from the dynasty. So it's the five most powerful dynasty in king that ruled China throughout history. So it's a replica of the coins that was in those days. And that is just protection, luck, attract wealth. So five emperor's coin is a very important symbol in Vongshui. And then I'll have the crystal. The crystal is the trim is a crystal for well. So this, can you see it? It's like, yeah, it's like, it's like yellow is the gold and you're representing some money. And then the crystal is facing out. So it's attracting wealth. Yeah. So this is my and this is representing fire because I need fire in my elements. And this is a money tree, the money bamboo. Do you know that one? We've seen the money tree, but I didn't know that was a money bamboo. Oh, sorry. It's not a money tree. It's a bamboo. It's a money tree, something else. This is the bamboo, the, I don't know, the money bamboo, I don't know the name. And then scientifically, if you want to think about the Fongshui and the wealth, it's the first thing you see when you open your door and you're in automatically reminded of like abundance. And you attract the wealth. So I think for me, Fongshui is more about the way of thinking of abundance and attracting rather than trying to chase. Like other practices, we do example. Have you heard about eating grapes under the table for New Year's Eve? So this is not a country thing. So this is a TikTok thing where girls were promoting eating grapes under the table to attract a man to find your man the next year. And a lot of girls have proven that this works. So every like New Year's Eve, people are eating grapes under the table with the clock strikes 12. And then so a lot of girls have been promoting, that's how they found their husband. Because the next year, that means you looking like you will find the man in Fongshui. That's not Fongshui, but in Fongshui is like, you're trying to manifest. So you would always have, well, actually, you should do this because you're trying to get a girlfriend, always have two pillows. Okay, two pillows and two pillows with the same like pillow case. And two bedside tables. Oh, okay. But my bed's on a corner. It's like on the corner. That's why you got to move it matching bedside tables. Okay. Because that invite, how is that person going to get out of the bed? If your bed is on the corner, inviting them like you're trying to attract. So you're setting this space up ready for a girlfriend. That's like the Fongshui. If you think about it, Fongshui is like, oh, like I have to do all the things. But if you think about it scientifically, you're trying to attract because you're setting things up ready for like your partner. Yeah, makes sense. So matching pillows, sorry, matching pillow cases. And like always too, because I used to have one pillow and my mom's like, no, get two. So you're like, and a double or queen bed, obviously, because if you have a single bed, how can you attract when you have a single bed? You're not. Yeah. And then like matching, pillow cases, matching bedside tables. Like these are simple things. Yeah. But if you think about those scientifically, it's like you're just getting the place to attract. Like you're ready. You're telling the universe like, Hey, I'm ready. I'm ready to have wealth. I'm ready to have abundance. I'm ready to have a girlfriend. Yeah. So this room, this set up of yours, it didn't exist before March, because you're in America. Yeah. So we just moved into this house. Like we just built it like, and you only got built like a year ago. So we just moved into this new place. And I painted the place. And I just, yeah, decorated it. Nice. This is just you and mom, or your sisters. My sister is downstairs. Yeah. So me and my little sister and my mom, but my little sister just got engaged. So I think she'll move out soon. Yeah. How old are your younger sister? Um, 95. 95. Okay. You guys are all very close in age. Yeah. Yeah. And my older sister is a lot older, but she's in China. So the business, right now, my little sister's doing her own thing. Like she's working on her job. So my, my mom has the physical shop. I am doing all the marketing and my older sisters in China with her two kids and her husband. So she's doing all the supplies. So we'll get the supplies to send stuff to her and she's invested. Um, she's investigating, investigating the right work. Yeah. She investigate all of them and then she control quality check. She does all the due diligence. Um, yeah. And then what you were asking me about Jade, like, it's really hard to find the right Jade. So that's why when we, we all went to China to literally go to the Jade market. So we handpicked a bundle, a bunch of Jade. Um, and then we like, yeah, we're sold out now. And, um, so yeah, we're looking for like more Jade now. So I'm actually looking at the business doing well. You guys are sold out. No, we didn't get much from the start. So it's not like we're sold like hundreds of thousands. We only had like maybe 20 or 30. That's pretty good. That's really good. A lot of people start and they get zero sales. So I think you're, you're doing a strong start. I know like, I know deep down side, like I've such a strong belief. I know that this will succeed. And the thing is because we really care about what we're doing ourselves. Like, we would use everything we're selling ourselves. And it's just such an important part of our life. And sometimes I see a lot of other like businesses and I look at the, like, it's a lot of dropshipping. Yeah. And then I get this stuff and I'm like, like, I think for this kind of stuff, you can't dropship and you can't like get cheaper. Like that's why my mom said like, you don't need to put things on discount when people are looking for this kind of stuff. Like you, they're not, they don't care about how much they're paying because they understand Feng Shui. You never ask for discount. Like you don't, you have to invite Feng Shui in. You're not, it's not just something that you can buy. Even if you buy everything, but if you don't believe in it, you'll never work. So it's, it's, you choose the Feng Shui choose you and you have to respect Feng Shui in the same way. So that's why I think I, because of that, I think we will, we have that advantage over some competitors that I've like looked at. Yeah. And I, I handmade all this. So I literally have to sit here sometimes at night, but the orders are not too much right now. So I'm okay, but scaling it. I would like to have that problem. So we'll see what happens. But I have to hand make these from scratch. I have to choose each one of these beads. And sometimes it has like, it's not, it doesn't look good or it's got like, um, damage. I have to just like not use them. So I have to sit here and hand make and hand select each one of these. And then we cleanse it, putting it in a crystal cave. Um, so there's a crystal cave at the top. So I put it in it, I put in it overnight. And then I do my sound bowl. Do you know, sound bowl? Yes. Do you use it? I do not. It's really, really good for clarity. Like, I need to get one then. Like if your brain is fried from, you know, your mom yelling at you, you can just like hit it. Really? Can you try it now? Can you show me? Can you give us an example? This one is really good quality. And then I have like real big ones. So the crystal gets put in the crystal cave up there, overnight. And then I like it. So that like cleanses the, um, the energy. And then I put it into these three, um, down a lot bigger. Wow. I like the floor and the chicken floors. Oh yeah, you can put the rug. Sorry, it's a bit messy. Um, the rug, you can actually wash the rug. It's a washable rug, because I'm quite messy. That's so cool. Yeah. So I put the bracelet in there and then I, I let us sit. And so it's like really cleanse, um, before I like pack it. You're a good sense for like interior design. Everything matches in your room. Uh, color scheme wise as well. The budget I have, I think it's, it's good. I think you did a really good job with your room now. Yeah, not like you. Sorry. Okay. Give me some feng shui advice on my room. How should I move the office around? Your office? Yes. I think, I think your office has a good size where you can actually put the table in the middle. Yes. Yeah. I think there's this corner. I think you have a perfect, okay. Yeah. I have like the perfect room because the size is actually good. Some people can not actually rearrange their office because that they have little amount to work with. Um, so you can see my office like behind me is a war. And I think, no, I think, but the rule for the office is that so 45 degrees is your wealth corner. So that's where when you walk in, you see straight away. So that's where you should put your money ball, your Pichu, your Pichu, and like anything that represents, I don't know, you're ready to attract them. So 45 degrees. And then the next rule is your, your table. When you walk into a CEO's table, is it, are they facing the back? Is the table on the wall? No, it's always facing the door because they, um, the energy you sitting here behind you is a war. You're grounded. You don't have to look back to see, oh, who's behind you? What's that? Whereas when you're facing, when your back is facing the door, you're always having to, obviously no one's at your house, but like, it's like representing, like, you never know what energy or who's behind you. Like you always have to look back and be careful. And you can never see someone entering your room. So having a war behind you represents, represents like you have a cafe, which is like, you have a mountain that you're leaning on. And I know in a lot of offices, you can't do this because you're working in the open area or you're working at a glass. Everything is glass panels. So you come, sometimes you come do that, but in your case, you can probably move your table to the middle. And I also know that sometimes in the Western country, it's nicer when you put it on the wall, because originally I wanted my table on the wall. But I know that the phone show is not, and you have a really, really nice window as well. So when you, if you turn your table in the middle and you put your stuff at the back, you can like look at the nice view on your, on your window as well. Like you're always facing out and you can look at the green in front of you. That fish tank is nice. Fish tank is really good for feng shui as well. So having water features in your, in your work. So we have like water features where the water is constantly running, and that represents your wealth is constantly flowing. So now we can get a different angle. So if we go into the room, okay. So this is sort of what it looks like at the moment. I see, yeah. So definitely like, I think aesthetically, and making it more like convenient, that's probably the best space for your, for your table. But because you have a big room, you can move your table to the middle, and then have your, yeah, have your chair behind that table so that you have something, yeah, you have a, your ground, more grounded, you have like something that you're leaning back on. And your wealth corner is where that plant is, that plant, it does your wealth corner. So that's a very important corner. So you can put like a something that's high enough up to the window. So buy like a stool, and then you can put like your, your wealth above and putting this table here. No, because behind it is a window. So you're still, that's still empty. So you still have to look back to see what's happening behind you. So the whole point is like, the energy is you don't have to worry about what's behind you. You can always just focus on what's in front of you. And if I put it here, it might be a bit weird, like here facing the window. Yeah, I think just, that doesn't, I mean, you can, but still you've got like, you've got like your left hand side to worry about when you're like working. And the whole point is that you always know you're surrounding, you always know what's in front of you. So move this table to the middle and just sit behind it. Yeah, so your room is pretty much structured like mine, because think about when you go to the CEOs office. And I know the office is very big, but a lot of very rich millionaire billionaire, they believe in feng shui, even Donald Trump, believe in feng shui, because he knows that feng shui will make him money. Like, he might not actually believe in it, but he literally said, I don't believe, I might, I might not believe in feng shui, but I know that if I use feng shui in my property development, I will make a lot of money. Because he knows that that's what attracts the Asian customers, first of all, and also it's better feng shui. So a lot of the rich people like CEOs, they have the whole room, like correct, they get a feng shui master and they just like do the feng shui. So a lot of them have the table in the middle. Interesting. How do you figure out wiring? If I put in the middle, like, I'm going to be sitting on wires, right? Yeah. So that's the challenge. You have to solve. How did you solve it? I only have a laptop. So I only have one wire. Yeah, you just have to work with the space you have. So sometimes you might not be able to apply the feng shui like elements that you want, but at least you can start with maybe just like the wealth corner. Like right now, it's a plant, maybe you can pull like a money bow. And the thing is you don't need to buy like my stuff to have a feng shui. You can literally get any bow, but not like an open bow. So the thing is the bow needs to be like coming in. So you can literally start feng shui like with it, just finding a bow that closes in, because if you have it open, the money is flowing like it's not being kept inside. And then you just put a bunch of coins. I used to have a bunch of coins. And then I just put in the bow and I just put in the money bowl space. And when you look online, a lot of our Western people, like they like to have their own version of money, but like they put things that like, I don't know, you can literally make your own version like they put random things in there. Couldn't be any bowl, can it be like a ceramic bowl that curves inwards? Yeah, yeah. So I, because I was missing the element of wood side, I found a timber bowl that was like curving in. And then yeah, you just put like money in that you put coins, but you never fill it up full because you're inviting wealth. So if you feel filled up, it's like, oh, I don't, I have enough, but if you feel like halfway or like a little bit more than halfway. So it's like, it's representing you ready to have more wealth. Yeah, and I think it serves as a daily reminder, because every day I come in and I look at that and I'm like, okay, I'm ready to hustle, you know, like, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if you can move your table to the middle because it, like your table is pretty big. But yeah, you get the idea of the, I think I'm going to start by finding the bowl. I like going to markets and I like drifting. So I'm going to start looking for a nice bowl that curves inwards. I'll take a photo of it, want to buy it and I'll send it to you and get your approval. And after you get your approval, I'll put it on, on the corner. Yeah. Yeah, you can always look at our shop. We have, buy a pair of pico with, and we'll give you a free wealth bowl right now. Okay, very cool. And then we put like, in the Pisha, we put five elements, we put the crystals in it. So we already like, pair everything up and then like, it's just like ready to go. And the Pisha, I showed you, it's 100% brass. Like 1.5 kilograms. Whoa. I really like heavy. Where'd you get it? From our shop. Nice. This is one of the best ones. So like, my mom like, gave it to me because we only, every time we get stuff, we only get a few because we don't know what the quality is like. Yeah. We only have, I don't think we have this. Maybe we just have one left, but it's like 100% brass. So it's like, it's heavy. The last two questions I usually end these podcasts with, one, any recent discoveries that you've had that you've implemented to your life. Is this a deep question or is it just? No, just like any, any recent discoveries that you're like, oh, this is cool. And you've been applying it to your day to day life. Day to day life. All week to week. Lately, for my content, I think I'm more lean towards the storytelling. And even though I have a whole bunch of overdue content that I really want to push out, I think I'm going to start from scratch and letting go of like the whole past version of me that I have been putting out. And I really want to focus on like leveling up my content game, trying to do more storytelling and more, more deeper and more something that I'm proud of, rather than trying to make as many content as I can and trying to just go viral. So I've been writing down a lot of ideas for like kind of videos I want to make. Because once you, when you start making video, you spend an hour for editing at least sometimes. And then sometimes it doesn't go anywhere. It's very discouraging. Because you're kind of not making content that you really, really like more and you're like trying to go viral or whatever. It's kind of like discouraging for me. So now I think from now on, I want to do more storytelling and more higher the next level of editing. I want the edit to be like, well, did she edit this? Like, did I yourself? Yeah. So every day, I've been trying to think about that more. Because I think when you have, when you think about something new, you're always thinking about it. It's not just the time you're doing, you always think about ideas. So every day, I'm just thinking about the kind of story I can talk about or the kind of YouTube videos. So lately, I've just been writing down a lot of ideas to go into the next version of myself. So I think the challenge is actually getting there, because it's like, it's still an idea in my head, or I wanted to look like this. But I feel like, because I'm doing that every day, I'm manifesting the next version of me. And I'm thinking, or what do I want to be like? What kind of content do I want to be like? I think I've been implementing that visualization a lot. And that's been helping me to get to the next step. Because every day, I'm thinking about I'm also taking little steps. And that's like helping me getting to that stage of like the next version of Cassie. Yeah, I'll let you know how it works out, because I'm still going through it. And every day, I'm. Sometimes I forget to wear like my bracelets. And I think lately, I've been trying to like, swap out my bracelets, because every one of these means different things, right? So lately, I've been swapping it out for different purpose, to be more aligned with like what I'm trying to do today. Like today, I feel like I need some confidence, and then I will wear like my tie guide, because that's like, that's the starting for confidence. And trying to do more little things every day to align with my intention, my vision, my manifestation, like yeah, swapping out my bracelets to what I want to do for the day. And writing things down. Yeah, and thinking about it. Yeah. Last question, any personal goals or focus for the next? I want to grow the business to like. Any personal goals that are not business related or work related. I would like to have my first kid after my connection. Personal goals. I think getting outside of my comfort zone to really, really make the kind of content I really like and enjoy. And getting better at publicly speaking, I think for the last seven years, yeah, for the last seven years, working in no investment bank, where I'm on the computer a lot. I'm just doing financial modeling on Excel, and then talking to another human like 5% of the time at my job, and not socializing when I was in Sydney, like always trying to like do a side hustle. I'm losing the communication skill that I used to have. So I think getting better at the public speaking and speaking to the camera, because I used to run workshops for like public speaking and stuff and I was getting a lot better. Do you know Toastmasters? Yep. Yeah, I hate that. I so I made my own workshop of Toastmasters. I call it the game changes. I used to run those workshops in uni and at work. And I really like that to help with like, you know, filler words, the way you present body language, I contact all that kind of stuff. And I feel like I lost all that. So yeah, definitely making content I like and then getting better at the communication skill to better tell my story. So I think that's my personal goal for the next few months to develop that skill. Nice, Cassie. Where can people get more of you? Where can people get more of Cassie? More of you. My YouTube and my Instagram. Yeah, we'll link it in the description below. Yeah, Cassie, thank you so much for your time. I know we talked for a long time. This is a fun chill episode. It was a bit chaotic, a bit all over place, but I think I like it. So thank you. But I think overall, you're such a nice chill person. I think you're definitely, you know, talking about communication, you're like naturally charismatic. I think you have a likable personality. You have such a cool, driven background. You're naturally a super driven sort of focus. You're really hot. And I think like you have like strong foundations. I think like, and you're also like open, vulnerable. And I think that's also very hard. Like it's not easy to be that, but you're naturally that. And I think you're like a natural sort of like leader. You're like the hero's journey. So thank you for your time today, Cassie. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Guys, if you made it this far, hopefully you guys got value from this episode. And I'll see you guys next week on another episode. Peace. Bye.
Kesii Dee is a lifestyle and fashion influencer with over 183,000 followers. She holds a degree in Civil Engineering and Finance from The University of Queensland and previously worked in finance. In 2024, she transitioned from investment banking to help her mother grow their family-owned Feng Shui shop, Serenity Art & Home. Kesii shares personal insights, family life, and promotes the business on her social media.
Connect with Kesii Dee!
www.instagram.com/kesiidee
www.youtube.com/@Kesiidee
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introduction
0:57 - Meet Kesii Dee
1:59 - Andy shares his experience studying Actuarial Science, and Kesii about pursuing Engineering
6:28 - Andy's journey in starting his own e-commerce and education company
9:28 - Transitioning from investment banking to becoming a social media influencer
11:51 - Transitioning from Civil Engineering to working as an Analyst at an investment bank
13:39 - Kesii on wanting to become a bartender on a cruise ship when she was 16 years old
14:15 - Kesii shares her experience working 13 different jobs, earning $8–$9 per hour at a young age
15:08 - Kesii recounts her experience serving a scientist earning $50 per hour while she was working at Gloria Jean's for $9 per hour
17:23 - Kesii shares why she chose to study Civil Engineering
18:29 - Kesii shares her experience studying a dual degree in Finance and Engineering
23:12 - Kesii's experience as a UCLA exchange student
28:33 - How Kesii got into social media
35:57 - From the corporate world to building her own e-commerce business
38:34 - Andy's experience working his first job at McDonald's
40:14 - Comparing the ranking of first jobs: McDonald's vs. KFC vs. Hungry Jack's
41:59 - Andy's journey from swimming instructor and math tutor to starting a dropshipping business
45:45 - Kesii talks about her dream to go to Coachella before turning 30
46:26 - Kesii's experience going into Made in America festival listening to Kendrick, Migos
47:04 - P Diddy's son birthday party with Justin Bieber
48:41 - Kesii on building her social media for her Feng Shui bracelets business
52:57 - Kesii shares how her corporate experience helps navigate business challenges
56:56 - Always Close to Success: Andy shares why he chooses to live each day to the fullest
59:19 - Setting boundaries: Why you shouldn’t always be the go-to person
1:12:55 - Is it true that successful people experience more failures?
1:22:01 - How Andy lost all his friends after coming back from San Francisco
1:25:15 - Andy shares how he organized a mastermind dinner with top founders around Sydney
1:28:19 - Kesii's thoughts on content creators from America vs. Australia
1:31:58 - Andy's journey working with a startup in San Francisco
1:37:51 - Andy on not craving to return to San Francisco
1:43:00 - Why do most people fake their tough upbringing stories?
1:47:02 - Andy’s 5-year goal to have two kids by 30
1:49:57 - How much did Andy pay for the domain 'studying.com'?
1:56:38 - Andy shares the long-term goal for his company, 'studying.com'
2:01:17 - Kesii shares how she got an e-commerce course for $10K to help grow her business
2:04:02 - Andy's thoughts on how Kesii should grow her e-commerce business
2:08:10 - Kesii shares the meaning of the three bracelets she is wearing
2:16:11 - Kesii shares how she got into Feng Shui
2:20:13 - Kesii shares the meaning of her necklace
2:23:57 - Kesii explains how she arranges her room using Feng Shui principles
2:28:50 - How does Feng Shui help you find a girlfriend or partner?
2:35:26 - Organizing Andy Mai office for better Feng Shui
2:44:41 - Kesii shares her recent life discoveries
2:48:23 - Kesii’s personal goals and focus for the next 6 months
2:50:12 - Connect with Kesii Dee
2:50:27 - Outro