As a non-profit, it's hard to make a difference in the community when your finances are holding you back. With Maxis by Freed Maxic, you can navigate complex challenges with the right people, processes, and technology. Learn more about Maxis and schedule a complimentary consultation at MaxisbyFM.com/nonprofit. Welcome back to the Nonprofit Have Radio Podcast. My name is Megan Spier and I'm your host today, and joined with me is my guest, Alexis Becker, who's the practice leader at Maxis with Freed Maxic. Super excited. You've probably heard me talk about some of their spots for the last couple of weeks. Excited to have them on the show today, so Alexis, welcome in. Thanks so much, Megan. Thanks for having us. Yeah, my pleasure. So tell the audience a little bit about you as a person, and then also what Maxis is. Because I want to make sure that we start with kind of a level set understanding of what the product looks like that Freed Maxic has put out. Yes, wonderful. Thank you. I live here in Buffalo, New York with my family, and lucky enough to have two healthy kids who keep us very active, and a whole set of clients that also keep us very active, so a very lucky person to be here with Freed Maxic. We started Maxis a couple years ago, late 2021, really because our clients were asking for help. Freed Maxic is a top 100 firm, we're over 65 years old. Our clients trust us with everything from accounting, audits, tax returns, and our clients were facing a lot of challenges. They knew they could do things better. They knew there was better technology out there, and they had a lot of controllers who were retiring and not a lot in the pipeline to replace them. So we started Maxis by Freed Maxic, which is our outsourced accounting and technology consulting line of business, really to partner with those clients and take our relationships further to kind of deliver on their organizational goals and make sure they had solid financial processes. I love that. We're going to dig in today a little bit to all of those pieces. Specifically, we talk a lot on the podcast about fundraising and marketing, but I'm excited to dig into the ultimately critical role that finances play for any nonprofit, so I'm excited to have you here today. Let's dive in. One of the things that I know to be true is that nonprofits are started by passionate individuals who are just trying to drive to meet a need in their community. So how can those passionate individuals make sure that they're surrounding themselves with the right people to help execute what they want to do and the impact they want to have their vision? Yeah, that's a great question, Megan, and that's what we see. Both with our nonprofits and our for-profits, to be honest, we get involved with very, very entrepreneurial souls who really want to drive their mission forward, really want to focus all their time and attention to their, you know, either the community they serve or the specific need they want to serve. They really don't want to sit in the background and do the accounting. They really don't want to necessarily worry about how many dollars do I have left? Do I need to sit down, kind of mark out exactly what I need? They really want to spend all their time focused on, you know, what they're truly passionate about. And as they grow, it becomes more and more important to make sure those financials are, well, not the most exciting part, is going out and talking to people and serving people are, but really understanding. What can I do? How many funding streams are out there? Are there grant opportunities? You know, how can I maybe even expand my reach on serving this community or other communities close to me, or we could have the same impact and, you know, help more people? So really knowing that, you know, having the expertise on their team to help drive those things so they can have that scalable growth will only help them grow further. I appreciate that because, yeah, I mean, if you're passionate about changing a need in the community, that doesn't mean that you have the finance background to back it up, right, or the interest in that. So I think that's a really important point. So then what happens or what are the challenges of not having a fully developed finance function within an organization? Yeah, unfortunately, what happens if you don't have good books and records, you end up in a spot where, you know, compliance is challenging, which can lead to not having a funding source be available, right? There might be a grant or maybe a county or a federal or a state award that could really help you from a dollars perspective. But, you know, if you don't have those kind of eyes dotted and tees crossed in the background, you won't be able to access those funds. It's also your reputation, right? Unfortunately, we see a lot of fraud out there. If there's not a lot of controls, not strong records, not strong controls over disbursements and receipts of funds. The last thing you want is for your organization's name to be the front page news, right? And we really need to make sure we're protecting that reputational risk. And making sure when the funds come in, we're using them to their fullest extent. We don't just want to, you know, say, "Oh, I have this money. I'm going to use it for all these things." And then all of a sudden, all those things add up to more of your original amount. And then you can't even accomplish the objective. You told the donor or the grantor or whatnot that you were going to do with them. So it's just really important to have very high quality records. Unfortunately, it's not as exciting as the marketing side, but just as critical, particularly with nonprofits because there are so many different funding sources in different ways that have to be accountable. Well, and I think that's a great point, right, is that none of those things happen without the finances. So it is the most critical that some would argue, right? The role that finance plays in a successful organization. So then why do we have so much trouble? Why did nonprofits have so hard of a time getting good talent and then also keeping them so that these things stay kind of checked and balanced? Yeah, another great question. And unfortunately, this is the market right now. Accounting is really changing and evolving. You know, I came out of college 20 plus years ago when there would be, you know, I went to a smaller school in Ohio and we graduated easily 150 accounting majors every year. You're locally a Buffalo. There's a similar university. Same thing. They'd graduate 150 plus per year. Now, those same colleges are graduating 20 accounting majors here. So there just isn't the same pipeline. And the landscape is very, very different. So again, coming out of college 20 years ago, you had X number of options. One of them was really appealing, candidly. It was public accounting because you could learn very, very quickly and then jump out, right? You'd work a ton of hours and then you could jump out into all these different places. You could jump out into your favorite nonprofit as a manager, right? You didn't have to start at the bottom. You could kind of jump out into a controller role and really have a wonderful career from there. And that was more appealing than entering bills or I'll say kind of going the slower route of learning. Whereas today, the options for an accountant or a finance manager are endless just because there's so much data, you know, finance analysts, accounting analysts, accounting generalists. If you're looking for a role, there's a million different titles and each organization may label them differently. On top of that, you know, a particular challenge in nonprofits is the salary. So a lot of times you need a certain level of talent. You can only afford one FTE, right? One full-time employee. Well, to get that employee that kind of hits all the boxes that you need, a little bit of strategic, a little bit of tactical, strong processes, strong control, strong use of data, that person's going to be more expensive because the market in general is also looking for those people. So, you know, combination of less accountants, more interesting opportunities for those people that are there and then really, you know, the role of technology. And sometimes with nonprofits, they can't spend their limited dollars investing in certain tools. And so that makes those jobs even less appealing to those individuals. They'll come in and they're, you know, working 70 or 80 hours a week for generally, you know, a lower salary. And most of the time, they want to be there, right? Like they're just as passionate as the leader of the organization to help the community. But, you know, when push comes to shove, there's only so much you can kind of do or take on before, you know, the rest of your life starts to suffer along with it. So it's just in general, these finance functions are evolving again, whether it's for profit or not for profit. Everybody's feeling it. People are really looking for roles that have analysis, have more strategic input. They kind of want to deliver that higher value earlier in their career. It's a great time for nonprofits because candidly, there is a lot of technology that can make the process easier. So it's a solvable problem. But it's really, really important that the organizations are open to lots of different arrangements. I mean, we all know hybrid, remote work are two big buzzwords. If you're sitting at your organization needs someone right there all the time and you're paying a lower salary in the market and you need 600 things with no technology, that's really tough, right? Like, that's a really tough sell, especially when this, again, this pool of applicants is shrinking. And, you know, one thing we'll talk about with our clients sometimes is they'll rave and rave and rave, they love us, they love us. And then they'll be like, gosh, but it's, you know, gosh, we have to still every month and they think of it like a line item expense. They'll be like, I don't know if I can do this. I'm like, but if you don't pay us, you have to pay someone else, right? Like, unfortunately, accounting is an optional, especially in this space. There's just so many different reporting needs. It's not like it's a nice to have. It is an absolute need to have. So it's just so important that you, you know, do think about all these elements. And there is definitely a lot of talent out there that wants to be part of the organization, wants to be part of the mission. So it's not an unsolvable problem, but it's really how do we make all these things work together to make it appealing. Yeah. Well, and to your point, I think, you know, there are so many organizations that find themselves be holding to the board or the powers that be, right, who are demanding or even public perception that the more that we spend on overhead. You know, we're taking away from the program or whatever the key, you know, whatever misconceptions we have. So then how to within that, how does a finance department deliver value and support the nonprofit and the growth and how do we, you know, obviously we need it. Right. How do we, how do we showcase what they deliver in the value and support that they provide to the organization's growth. Yeah. And I think this is one of those never ending battles, unfortunately, of the financial accounting world. Really, I think about it. Three big buckets. One is that just data fact based decision making, protecting the assets and then compliance. So digging into each one of those, you know, it's so important for organizations to have accurate financials to make strategic decisions. Those organizations that we work with that have strong boards, candidly, those are our favorite because they want this information. They value the information. They understand the importance of it to the organization. They understand that, you know, the investment in the level of detail you can get in granularity, even getting the reporting will help them direct. Okay, the fundraising from this campaign was lower this year than last year. Why is that? What happened? What do we think is different in the market? Should we have taken a different approach? Right. Really, it's, it's not just the balance sheet and income statement or a cash flow statement, kind of the standard report a board would get. It's really about measuring and judging kind of what I call after action review of how did this work? How could we do better next time and continuing to challenge themselves to grow. And sometimes it may be a program that has a leader and their heart is in it, but you know what, the program isn't necessarily needed anymore or isn't needed in the same form that it was. And maybe the use of the program, right, has gone down. So we're still spending the money, but the value we're delivering back to those constituents is just so much lower. Do we need to repurpose those dollars? Do we need to evolve it and really just giving a clear lens and perspective on all those different attributes? I think is probably the most critical value point that the finance department brings. And there's the factual side, right, of protecting assets. So it is so important to have a strong system of internal controls. It's so important to make sure there is an opportunity for fraud or opportunity for theft. Again, not only protecting those dollars, but protecting the organization's reputation. A big thing that finance brings is we touch everyone in the organization, right? We touch the executive director, we touch the board, we touch the marketing group, we touch if there's operational leaders. Everyone at some point needs to get their payroll paid. Everyone at some point needs to get a bill paid. Here's this donation. Can you put it in the bank for me? Right? We are kind of the central part of the wheel, if you will, of all the different spokes. So it's so important that we make sure there's controls in place and that those processes are defined so everyone knows their roles and responsibilities. Everyone understands how important that protection is really to mitigate the risk of loss, right? Really thinking about how do we structure these finance departments to not only be solid for us right now, but as we grow. I think most of the organizations we work with, they're looking to grow, right? They're looking to continue spreading their word or extending their reach and really thinking about how to spend as little as you can. When you are able to scale, if that makes sense. So instead of every time you grow by a certain dollar amount, you have to add one head to the deal with that dollar amount. Let's invest in it now. Let's invest in solid processes. It may not even be pulling the trigger on all of them or pulling the trigger on the certain piece of technology yet to help with it. But having a plan and just having that time up front is really, really critical and then can help again as a percent of revenue that overhead goes down and down and down as you get bigger because you've now got a process that works routinely and you're getting accurate financials to measure that process. So I think that's a big deal and it also allows for traceability. Most of the controls we have in place are all off. They essentially tracked in the system. Someone has to log in. Someone has to do something with it. We have a complete audit trail over every transaction, which I think when people know that exists, again, we're mitigating that opportunity for someone to think, "Huh, I could just slide that in my pocket for a minute. No one will know." Or, "I'll just use it over here. It'll all nut out." It may not even be in their pocket. It may be for something that means, "Well, we still do need to track what happens." And then lastly, it's just compliance. I'll say that's the unfun part. I think that's the unfun part for all of us. But tax exempt organizations have to fill out tax returns too. They'll have to do their 990 to various state reporting here in New York State. And I know there are several other state rules as well. Once you have a million dollars, you have to have an account from Covenant Look. That can be a very painful, very expensive process. Or it could be a very easy process, a very collaborative process where you're really showing evidence of what you did during the year. Everything ties out very nicely with the bow. We do our reporting. We give it to the board. We have it available. Should any donors or grant agencies want to see it? It can be very paid less when you invest in these processes and really put that value on what the finance department is asking for, because most of the time people might say, "Oh, they want this again." Well, yes, but we're actually trying to make everything easier down the road. We're not trying to be paid in the butt by asking for a receipt or asking for your time card. We are trying to protect the organization overall. ♪♪♪ Maxis by Freed Maxic is an innovative financial advisory solution for nonprofits. Backed by over 60 full-time professionals dedicated to serving nonprofits, Maxis helps you address short-term talent needs and achieve long-term financial stability by letting you outsource and automate accounting tasks. So that your team can focus more attention on mission-driven growth. Learn more about Maxis and schedule a complimentary consultation at MaxisbyFM.com/nonprofit. ♪♪♪ I know a lot of the nonprofits that are listening today or that are part of the nonprofit community tend to be maybe some smaller or startup. And so when they hear you say something like, "It helps protect its assets," right? I'm sure that there are people out there going, "We got no assets." Because we tend to think of those as this very physical thing. Expand a little bit on that. What does it mean to you that this would help to prevent even things like fraud? How does that help the nonprofit itself when we're trying to protect those assets? Yeah, so I think those strong processes, again, we do have startups and our group of clients that we serve. It's really making sure you can build trust and financial integrity, right? That's fundamentally what it goes back to. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stats out there that anyone with less than 15 million or revenue, I mean, the median loss is $100,000. Unfortunately, if you have, let's say, just a bookkeeper or perhaps you don't even have a bookkeeper, and you just are depositing everything in the bank account, and then you hand off a debit card and they go buy shoes, right? Anything they want. You just need to think about access and how easy would it be for someone to do the wrong thing. And while we never want to think that, we also never know what's going on in our employees' lives. And sometimes they may need something and think they're going to borrow and put it back. And all of a sudden, no one's watching. And then all of a sudden, you go from being a startup, trying to build your credibility, or being a well-established organization with credibility and ruining it in one foul scoop, ending up, again, from page of the paper of local organization arrests the controller for theft. Unfortunately, it happens, and it's really just so important that everyone understands and values those processes and values the segregation of duties, which really is set, you know, tone from the top. So, I think the organizations that we see that have a very strong executive director presence, that value process, that value the accuracy of information, that can't simply value transparency, because we also all make mistakes, right? Someone may make a genuine mistake with something, and that is also okay. We're just looking for the truth tellers. So, really, how do we protect the organization? How do we make sure we have trust and integrity for those people we serve and those funding sources that we're getting money from? That's great. So, to that end, then, when we talk about those financial processes, what are some of the best practices or suggestions or levers to pull that could help optimize that for folks? What would you say are some of those tricks of the trade, if you will, to make sure that we're getting the most out of that process? Yeah, I think the easiest answer is technology. I think our favorite statement is when clients come to us, and I think it's happening to everyone. I'm sure it's happening to you. It certainly happens to me of some fancy new software showing up in my inbox. I'm going to buy it, and everyone says, okay, this is going to solve every problem I have. It's amazing. Of course. And we all know that's not how it works. I think one of my favorite comments from a leader over the years was, well, I spent all that money on that software, and I plugged it in, and it just works. You don't know what you're talking about. It just works. That's what's going to happen. I'm like, okay, okay, well, in three months when we're cleaning up the mess, you pay me back. But that's not how it works. And we say this to all five clients. Let's think about our processes first. Who is going to do what? What are the most critical pathogens that they need to do today and tomorrow? And then how can we enable it with technology? So really making sure we're putting the standardized processes first. Again, thinking about those controls, and sometimes it might be, you know, as a marketing person, you need to receive all the invoices. The other person's going to pay, right? There's a lot of different ways to slice and dice, even with very small organizations. Sometimes the non-accountant on the team needs to take on one or two tasks, again, just to have those controls in place, have that check and balance. You can't really have a backup system for some case someone's out. But really what we emphasize with our clients is, let's make sure there's a standard process first. You know, we certainly have companies come to us and say, oh, my gosh, my controller quit. I need you right now. Unfortunately, it's not something that we can just step in and magically have a wand and everything will be perfect. Most often we find things that are candidly quite simple, and I'll pick up a disbursements process, but we'll step into an organization and invoices. So, you know, we use vendors, they deliver goods or services to our organizations. Those invoices are coming in via email, via fax, via mail, over here to this person who left it on their desk for 12 months, right? Like there's all these different entry points. That makes it very, very difficult. Not only to stay in good standing with your vendors, which of course is important, but then also to have those accurate financial statements about, I brought X dollars in, but I spent or committed myself to Y dollars. Your Y will be completely inaccurate. If you don't have that solid process and kind of think of it as a funnel, right? Everybody pays bills. Everybody pays payroll. There are certain things that are standard, whether your, you know, mission is, I'm going to be a homeless shelter, or I'm going to do economic analysis for clients, or I'm going to be a nonprofit social club, if you will. Those are all different types of organizations, but they all pay bills. They all pay payroll. There are certain things we all do. We all accept donations, right? Happily. We all accept funding from different sources. So having those, I guess, streamline, think them like a pipe, a pipe that you follow. I have this workflow step, this workflow step, and this workflow step in defining what those are, are very, very critical. We have a client right now that I'll definitely put in the startup bucket, who has been amazingly successful. It's so exciting to be a part of, but they take this very seriously. And part of why they're having such a smooth, I'll say, experience in their first year of operations is because they took those processes so seriously. We talked about them candidly, acknowledging them before we even had anyone in the door, but they understood if I spent the time up front, and I really talked about all the different scenarios, I think could happen. When we are running at 110 miles an hour, I'm not going to have to think about the back office. I'm not going to have to think about the administrative stuff as much, and I will be able to focus more on that business. I will be able to keep running as fast as I can forward. And it's been really a great story of the right way to do it. And certainly exciting to watch and really kind of reduces that, you know, what we call of ad hoc, right? That kind of just some organizations you step into it. Everything feels like it's a one-time thing, and the reality is that's just not usually true. Yeah. So those standardized processes, really having a focus on controls and segregation of duties is very, very critical. Restricting access to sensitive information is critical, especially those organizations that may need to be HIPAA compliant because of the population they're serving. And then really focusing on, "Okay, here are my processes. How can I spend less of my human manual time? What tools should I use?" The accounting software is a big first step. We use two in our practice. The reason we only use two is because we want to make sure we're learning the most about those two. We kind of have, I'll say, a small and a medium and a large. It doesn't necessarily matter what the platform is. It matters that you're using it consistently. You're using it to its fullest capabilities, and it's doing what it needs for you, which is really tracking all of your historical transactions. And coding them appropriately for what that item represents. If you're a startup today, look to the cloud. There's a partner report out, organizations of all size are moving to the cloud. That is just where it's headed. We certainly have some clients that I'll say use some legacy systems and don't like the cloud version, and that's okay, too. But unfortunately, everyone is going to the cloud, so we do need to jump on and move along. Fighting that is probably a losing battle for any organization. Again, there's just so many tools that are so cost effective out there. The other one that has just been really successful, both within our client base and in our technology consulting practice, that is a home run is really AP automation. And there is a million different tools out there. We do use one that we really, really like. It's a tool that is very, very commonplace and becoming more commonplace. I think our favorite story is we have a client who we literally polled 60 hours of work a month off of this woman's plate by putting this tool in place. So if you think about paying bills, it also isn't that fun, right? Like it's really not that fun to let your money out of the account. But it also has a lot of manual steps that don't add value. Someone has to receive the mail. Someone has to open it. Someone has to get approval for the invoice. I'm going to walk it around. Here's my stamp. I'm going to sign off. Then someone has to key it into the accounting system. Then someone has to key it in to write the check. If you write the check, you've got to match it back up, put it in envelope, send it to the vendor, see if you're going to get confirmation. The check is clear to attach that, put it all in the filing cabinet. It's just a lot of manual steps that can't really aren't fun and are kind of tedious. These softwares, a lot of them work very, very similar. Everything becomes automated. It becomes your electronic filing cabinet. Invoices get mailed to a central email address. The only thing that goes to that email address are bills, right? We're not sorting through. Do you want to go to launch? Right. Right. Should we end early today? There's not all these other things in there. Our sales ad for software to buy. It's only the bills. You basically click on it. You tell it where it should be recorded. This is our rent expense for the month. We're going to code it to rent expense or whatever it is over the time. Over time, these invoices come in. There's a lot of routine invoices every month. The system learns that, right? It says, "Oh, this is my vendor, ABC rent corp or ABC lease corp. This is rent. It was rent last time. I'm just going to automatically put it to rent." Which also gives our records more consistency versus us humans of guessing, especially if you're in a hurry. You may guess one way, one month, another way, another month. It gives a lot more consistency again to that end result of the financial reporting that we're looking for. We put the coding in. It kind of pushes it forward. Someone has to approve it. Again, we're electronically stamping. Someone approved it. Yes, this is a valid bill. This is an expense of the organization. I agree. I'm clicking approve. A couple of options from there. I can either push it along and then someone else can approve the payment. Again, getting that checks and balances more than one person involved. Or, you know what, I know exactly what my expenses are. I have a very good cash flow process. I have a very good forecast process. My revenue has come in exactly as I expected or better. I know I have the money. You can automatically schedule it for payment also, right? Taking that automation a step further. Most of our clients like that touch of yes, I agree to pay, but it's certainly possible to also just kind of let it get paid naturally as well on its due date. And then everything is stored right there. If that vendor has a question, "Hey, when am I going to get payment?" Someone can either call the office and say, "Can you tell me when the check was cut?" Again, it's all right there. That one platform, very easy to find. I'm not digging back through checkbooks or, you know, going into the bank, checking if it cleared. It's all on that one platform. So really, really significant time savings there. This is probably the thing our clients love the best. We as one person think that was really... And she was really hesitant. She's like, "I don't know. I've done it my way for 30 years and I'm just not sure." And a week later, I called her and I'm like, "How are you doing?" And she was like, "Oh my God. I love it." And she was like, "This is so much easier." She was like, "I actually got to work 40 hour a week this week. I'm like, that is amazing." I'm going to make you be a rep, right? I'm going to put you in an ad. But really, just also, if you're looking at, "I've spent X amount with this vendor. I really want to see what the total was, what types of things did I do with them?" If you're maybe looking to your budget for next year and you're kind of researching backwards, everything is right there. Just so easy to find. For compliance, organizations are required to send 1099s at the end of the year for anybody who's essentially not a corporation. Again, that easily tracks it and essentially push a button. Here's my report. This makes my compliance less painful, or I'm sorry, less painful, more pain less. So just a lot of advantages to that tool and probably are most popular because paying bills is everyone's least favorite job. Given everything that you just shared, I can imagine that there will be a lot of people out there to whom outsourcing now sounds like the best plan they've ever heard. Because, oh my gosh, that's so many things. So tell me, if you had to say what is the top two advantages of outsourcing, all of the things that you just talked about because, man, I'm sure there are a lot of folks in our audience who are going, "Yeah, 40 hour weeks sounds great to me. I would love to do that." The top two that are very, very clear is really just that human side, right? That's accession planning that you really want to mitigate the risk of loss of institutional knowledge, right? When you have a lot of manual processes and someone decides someone that you may adore, but they want to retire, right? They want to go. Or someone on the other end of the spectrum of, "I've been here for three years and I want to do something else now and they often leave you in two weeks. Like two weeks is in a lot of time." So really a big advantage to outsourcing is really we have a standard process. It's firmly defined. We manage all of the technology. Something breaks, we take care of it. And it doesn't matter if Megan is doing it, Alexis is doing it, Leah is doing it, Mack is doing it. The process is the process. It's enabled by the technology that helps guide the process. And it really sort of insulates. I think of it like insurance, right? It insulates that back office so nothing ever falls off the rails. You know, unfortunately we have a client who suffered a medical emergency at work and she did happen to be the person that paid all the bills. She was out. We jettisoned somebody in and we can just take it over. So one, the organization doesn't lose a beat. Two, when she came back, right? Fortunately, she recovered. She came back. She's not coming back to six stacks of things waiting for her. It's really making sure all those, again, those non-optional accounting tasks are taken care of. And it's also giving you access to diversified talent. The value proposition of what you pay for outsourcing versus what you pay for an in-house person, outsourcing almost always wins. There may be certain situations where you have such granular needs for reporting or certain things may need to be so granular that it doesn't make sense, but that is almost never the case. Really, what you're getting with an outsourced team, usually for the price of one FTE, you're getting a whole team of people. You're getting a fractional CFO for that strategic advice that you need. You're getting an outsourced controller. Again, you don't always need 100% of the controller. You're getting a senior accountant. You're getting an AP clerk. You're getting all these things for the price of one and a very strongly controlled process. You're getting usually better tools than what you could get on your own because those of us in the outsourcing business, software providers love us because we bring 50 clients at a time onto a platform. We're more of a super user and often can offer the technology at a lower or close to lower cost of what you can get on the open market. So nine times out of 10, it is less expensive and just more consistent to have that outsourced team. That's why you're seeing it grow so exponentially. Not only with CPA firms, there are certainly other organizations out there that are doing nothing but outsourced accounting because there's definitely a value for quality information, board CIT, executive director CIT. They're marketing people. They like maybe not the traditional balance sheet or income statement, but certainly understanding in a more easy format versus digging through old papers or digging through old systems. How did this campaign work versus this one? Two years ago, I think we did this. Did that perform better or worse? What do we think would happen now? Again, just getting as many facts and as many data points as possible so everyone can optimize their time and the value they bring to the organization. I love that. Alexis, thank you so much. I think that's, again, this is a piece of a critical piece of the nonprofit pie that we don't talk often enough about. So really appreciate all of your insights today. Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks, Megan. I appreciate it being here. Thanks for having us. My pleasure. Again, my guest has been Alexis Becker, who's the practice leader at Maxis by Freed Maxic. Super excited. If somebody wanted to learn more, Alexis, how would they find out more about Maxis? Wonderful. So we have our website, which is Maxis by FM.com, M-A-X-I-S-S-M-Z-M-B-Y-F-M.com or info@freemaxic.com. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much. Again, this has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Speer, and we'll see you next time. [MUSIC]
