Personally, if I have to tell an England player what to do all the time, why is he an England player? Let's work our way through what your defence would have been, your midfield would have been and your front line would have been. My philosophy has always been seen as a negative. You have the best defensive record in whatever league you've made, to finish it at all. If you know he's going to hold it up, you can set off. If you have to wait to see if he holds it up, then I'll again, it's too late, yeah. Was there any conversations there, James? I read to see him at his house, as soon as I got there, he said that if I'm not going to play it, I don't think he's picked me. 2026, what team would you put forward? Right, hello everyone, this is Cole, isn't it? Yes, that's right. Sam Alladice is next to me, this is ridiculous. Welcome back to the Ripple Effect. Sam, thank you so much. James, pleasure to be here. It's been wonderful to spend a little bit of time in your company. And we're going to dive into how you would set up a team generally in the perfect world. We're then going to dive into World Cup 2018, and if you'd had the chance how you would have set up England, a ripple effect in itself. And then it could have been your 10-year anniversary as England manager going into 2026. So we're going to have a look at how you would set up England. It's only, not my wishes, yes, it's only, yeah. Indeed, so let's dive into it. So generally, when you're looking to sort of mold a team, create a team, what do you like, how do you want to generally set up? Well, it depends on the way the football or the trends of football are going. And what has been implemented in the game at this moment in time? What you consider to be relevant or irrelevant in terms of will it make you better or will it not? And a lot of, well, certainly a lot of stuff today, I don't think it makes teams any better, I think it makes them more difficult for them to win. But when I was going in the Premier League, it was all about the move from 4-4-2. And the move from 4-4-2 happened to bring me, particularly into scenarios of convincing the centre forward, that it's fine for him to play up front on his own because he will get the right support to him. And because at that particular time, they were brought up particularly in England on 2-2 centre forward. So the 2 centre forwards would be there. So I went a long way prior to me getting the Bolton job into 4-3-3. So I ended up with your city midfield player, one on the left, one on the right, one up front, two wide men. OK, let me take all these bits off because that's my bad. There you go, lovely. So that would be the best, because there was more and more emphasis on dominating and controlling the midfield. And at that particular time, quite a few teams were still playing 4-4-2. And certainly with Bolton when we first got there, it was a bit more and a bit about protection to the back four, as well as having the opportunity to get this player particularly free in midfield if they were just playing the two. So that then set a challenge out of, instead of a week in a week out going home and away, playing 4-4-2 against 4-4-2 against 4-4-2 against. We were now putting up a 4-3-3. And the opposition was saying, it's a little bit of a surprise for them. - Well, it often comes across. - So it felt a bit normal. People forget that, don't they? It was 4-4-2 for a very big long time. Long, long, long time. And so once we got into, well, eventually we got into these sometimes not being actually wingers. It could be like the number two centre forward to play out here. Because it doesn't stop them joining in. You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Coming out into there. So where the spaces were created, find the space, run into the space. An old coach told me that, where's the space, exploit the space? So if you find the space, run into it, yeah, if you're on the ball, play into space. So it's quite a simple attribute to put into your players by saying, so if I'm on the ball there, if I'm on the ball there, I would only want to play into these areas. Is that? - Yeah. Or that area. Because that's where the space is. So while I was at centre forward to turn and run, or the wide plan to turn and run, yeah, or you could actually run into there and you could play into space that way. - Right. - So now you're exploiting the back forward. You're turning the back forward round, running back towards the wrong goal. Well, a lot of clubs done with the obsession of playing into feet. Yeah, it would be that you're playing through a tight space. I have to play through that tight space there. That's what I'll do, I'll give you a pen. You can draw whatever you want to do. - I mean. So that would then be more difficult for him to play into that space there. Because it could get cut out by the opposition's midfield players. So if we take that off, if we take that off, now, if we're all the way back here, then the back forward doesn't squeeze up. Now is our opportunity to play into feet. Oh, we've got the pen. - Yep. - Into feet, into feet, into feet, into feet, or into feet. So we were trying to always get this man, who generally was spare. - I know. - Because the opposition was playing 4-4-2, - That's in Campo. - That can be. - No, Gary Speed was one of these here. So it was a good ball-playing midfield player who read the game pretty well. He used to do the intercepting, and he used to read the game, and so he used to take the pressure off the bat-4. So Alex Sung, Westam, his legs weren't quite as good as he were, but he couldn't have played the Westam and did a fantastic job, like he means. - That's interesting. - So we're a two-guy black man. - Yep, cool, what a player. - I mean. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know. - Okay, so... - So utilizing those players to the best of their ability was... and that simple instruction saying to the players, playing to space and running to space lads. - And so in a perfect world, often there's a lot to talk about profiles now, what kind of players, different players like. I was actually listening to a podcast the other day, it was Mel Johnson, who was a scout for QPR for a long time. - Yeah. - And he was talking about certain players that he kind of loved as a scout. He used to see a certain player, they'd look a certain way. Just run through a team in terms of like, what did you like from a right back? What did you like from a left back? What did you like from your centre backs? You've kind of touched on it with your centre midfielder. What did you like profile-wise when it came to those players? - Well, when it came to England, we really would have to defend or be able to defend well. And if you can, being in a position to defend, being able to defend one-on-one. Because overall, we all talked about if they leave one-up, we leave two back if they leave two. But there's occasions where if you're going forward and you want to get back into a game or win a game, you will actually just let the opposition and let it go one-on-one. And then you're trying to get in score to go or trying to get back into a game. I think that's important. The importance of the player himself taking responsibility was always the way I talked about, you know, whatever you see on the pitch is your responsibility. So I'm showing you a way to play, and I'm showing you a way to exploit the position. But if you see something that you think is right, then you must take the opportunity to do it. - Right, you didn't want him to be robust. - You didn't want him to be robust, you know, just, I mean, when it comes to England, that England players, I mean, you know, if I have to, personally, if I have to tell an England player what to do all the time, why is he an England player? - Yeah, who says good point? That's the technology. - You know what I mean? They are there because they are the best, they are the best in our country. And tactically, we can show them the opposition which you accept, you would accept or you would think that they would absorb. And then they would go out and exploit the opportunity to use their ability to win a game of football and, of course, be very aware of who their best players are to try and nullify them in their possession. - So it sounds like often going into different places in England as well, where you kind of need to see what players you've got and then it will work from there. But I'm super keen to kind of say, what do you want from a right back? What do you want from a right back? - The perfect world. - The perfect world, in my perfect world, and today it's changed an awful lot and you have to accept it's changed so you would, I would accept a right back attacking more now than I've ever done, right? But my full back was obviously to help attack and overlap, get a few crosses in. But his main job is to stop crosses and defend against the opposition person he's playing against. And I think that that combination is very difficult to find today. It's one or the other. Now, one bassaka used to get berated at Manchester United and it started as a right winger at Crystal Palace by the way. And he was the best defensive fallback in the league from an analytic point. - Yeah, one-on-one as well. - One-on-one, yeah. But yeah, berated has not put enough right. I mean, because at this end of the pitch, it wasn't quite as gifted as a lot of fallbacks that are. Now, my philosophy has always been seen as a negative. You have the best defensive record in whatever league you're playing. You finish at the top. You have the best defensive record in the World Cup. You're probably finishing the final at least. - Yeah, you can't, what? You can't lose, can you? Champions League. - Yeah. - But that seems to have disappeared in our thinking today, particularly in young coaches, and I get that, because young coaches find themselves in a very difficult position on not saying to the owners, the fans, the press, that they're going to play out for the back. If they don't say they're going to play out from the back, they won't be a coach. I think that's the big thing here. I think as possession dominates, that means that these right backs are playing in the opposite of half a lot. - Well, don't forget, with Pep now, there's a lot playing in there. - Yeah, very true. - So, which I get, which is a good idea, because if they play one up front, there's no need for the fallback not to go. This one to come in midfield, which means you throw an extra man in the box, right? That's fallback, midfield player getting in the box, you know, getting on the edge. When a lot of players come in here now, with that little ball down the side, it's cut back from one of the players here, yeah, and you end up closing him in. So, you're penning in there. The thing about penning in is about consistent pressure, continuous pressure on the opposition's defence. So, whenever they clear the ball, we win it, recycle it, back out wide, back in the box, back across, across, across, and back again, then trying to get through and get in with whatever players, but when it comes out again, you win it again. And ultimately, the more pressure you keep on the opposition, and you've seen it many times, they end up cracking. So, sustained pressure is the object to the exercise. While the first cross might not work, it comes out, and you're recycling to get the next cross in, or you get it pulled back for a shot on goal. And I think that that's very important to emphasise that the players, you know, take up the right position and don't falter. Now, if they leave one up front, the eyeball was said, the other centre and half stays in front. Oh, you do that way. That's a waste of time. Right, yeah, interesting. So, because what happens is now, if that popped out to this centre forward here, e-olds it up, and then we all have to chase back 30, 40 yards. That man goes in there, and it's marked in front of behind. If it popped out here, we win it, recycling. It gets played up, yeah, as it gets played up, he comes around and recovers. Talk to me about what's your favourite kind of centre forward, and also wingers, you're a winger man. Well, there's two, well, there's two. One's a goal scoring, some first and foremost. I mean, you know, everybody knew I love Kevin Davis, and I saw Kevin Davis playing at Chesterfield, and I was managing a platform, and I thought, "Who is this man, by the way? You know, he's going to go a long way." But Kevin's life had taken a bit of a turn into like, you know, big 6'3", handsome, good looking centre forward, it tracks all, you know, all the lifestyle that goes with that. Then perhaps lost his way a little bit, and I was all bent at my time on two, deliver him back into the game, and show us what it can really do. And because we got all the support he needed, all the backroom staff that all the anything you wanted, it was a, by that time, he became a force of, when we decided that we were going to create a chance, we played off Kevin. Now, everybody thought, "Oh, he's on about him, editing it." No, it won't. We were playing up to his feet or chest. So, Kevin wasn't one of those that ran in behind like I liked, with Nautilus, or Jermaine before. So, I changed my mind, based on the way I have. So, I changed the way we play. So, when everybody goes on about how we played. So, Kevin Davis, we'd play. People would see it coming up to Kevin to hold up. These players would start going in a wider position. Kevin, at the older, these players would come and support. It would get laid off, get wired, get in the box, or he'd come in and he'd have a shot, or he'd have a shot. So, these players could all come in to play, because he held it up. So, they knew Kevin would hold it up. So, like everything else, if you know he's going to hold it up, you can set off. If you have to wait to see if he holds it up, in L again, it's too late. Yeah. So, that's what Kevin was really good at. The one thing that he didn't quite manage was, it was always around nine goals a season. And what we were prepared to do when we analyzed, we had to set targets for everybody in the team to score. Kevin was always about 10 or 12. And then, obviously, the wide areas ended up being due feast stallios. They got six, seven, or eight. Midfield player, speedy, JJ, Kocher. You're the yorker for, we ended up out there in the end, eight, nine. Kevin Nolan. Nine Nolan, always in double figures. Center hours, four or five each. Fallbacks, if you've got a goal, we'll go ahead. So, we went around that we need this many goals. So, Kevin's not going to score them, but everybody else has to, to get us up the league. Now, that changed when Nicholas and Elka came. Talk to that, Nicholas, now, is so complete. You know what I mean? So, that was a different story. That wasn't playing into his feet. That was always playing down here. It's the, in that great era, who this, I'll give you three if you want to, the players that you can't like, saw him on the training ground or saw him in the game, you just stop. I would imagine Nicholas and Elka was one of those. Yeah. Because how complete was it? It was the last run of mine. It was, at that time, it was the last piece of the jigsaw, as we say. It was the double figure's goal score we were looking for. And boy did he deliver. And all that talk about, you have to match Nicholas's standards. And we have, we had standards so I, at that particular time, from in all departments, that you had nothing to really complain about. You know what I mean? That's interesting. You could say the training ground was a bit, a bit light. We developed it somewhat, but it was nice and compact, just two and a half pictures, which was only for us. But we got the gym and we got the facilities, we got the weight room, we got the sauna, the spa, the treatment rooms, we got the massage rooms, the analyst room. So we got, we got everything about that time that we could deliver. We got the psychologist, the sports psychologist, you know, we got, we got, we got about everything at the time, which, which I always felt when it comes to England, psychology was missing. Well, that's it. I think one of the biggest, to England, I felt that, that mentally they couldn't quite get over the line. Yep. Well, yeah. And I felt that that was always the biggest, because I was at looked at the team thought there was some talent here. Well, let's provide some context there, because I think as you step into the job, this is hot on the heels of the Iceland game, gone out and it was a mentally fragile performance. Yeah, yeah. And performance, absolutely. I'm checking to you today. The thing that I've been found really interesting is your, your soft skills and your understanding that how important that that is. And it sounds that you're saying there that that would have been one of the things you would have really enjoyed with England is the ability to kind of to get them out of the mile that they were in mentally and get almost getting to stop thinking. Well, yeah, I mean, that's certainly, certainly you've got the, you don't quite know that until you get into it, you speak to the people. You've got the fear of not the same protection as you get at the club. You don't have that protection England. Yeah. You know, as hard as you might try, and as you might talk about it, it's always, it's always a little bit more to open than it is, than it is, than it is at the football club. Right. You've got to marry into a unit with little or no time. Yeah, to practice. Let's get that chemistry is different. But you've got a lot of technology that we had. Instead of sitting in the analysis room and going through time, it's going to, it's going to come to you via technology now. Right. So, that meant that our time together would, I think, probably be a little more enjoyable, hopefully. Yeah. Or you're taking out unnecessary space, and then finding out what their problems were previously, which was critical to the mental state of the players. Yeah, allowing that connection. Yeah. So, this is the, this is a whole host of players. And what I'll do is, I'll just highlight the team that Gareth Southgate kind of went with, and then we'll kind of lose that. And then, let's work our way through what your defense would have been, your midfield would have been, and your, your frontline would have been. So, in terms of the team that played in 2018, you had Pickford as your goalkeeper. It was actually Ashley Young playing as a left-sided wingback. You had Maguire, Stones, and actually, we've got to dip into the right-backs here, because Walker came and played- This is Gareth. This is Gareth. This is what Gareth ended up doing. Trippia played as the right wingback. You then had Henderson, kind of as the sort of single pivot here, which would be a drink water out the way. Oh, could get, could get messy now. There we go. All right. There you go. And then, it was one where you had actually Deliali playing over on this sort of side, and he would really work this left channel quite a lot, because Ashley Young wasn't really getting up there. And on the other side, there was Jesse Lingard, who was playing on this right side, doing kind of a similar thing, because the wingbacks, as we said, weren't really ones that are going to bomb on, and you weren't really playing wingers. And then, interestingly, Sterling, who scored 17 goals as a left winger, actually kind of played as a centre forward, alongside Harry K. So just for context for kind of everyone, that's what got England to a semi-final. So let me take them all off, and then let's go from your defence. You have to say rightly sore, I mean, on the basis of what you were doing, you mean? Back three for me, well, it did work. Would you have played a back three? No, I'd have played a back four, because I didn't know anybody that was playing with a back three. Okay, it's a long time ago. I can't remember anyone that was playing with a back three regularly at the club, at their own club. Yeah, I think it was. So I would have always favoured the fact that nobody wants to give up midfield the most, people played with three midfields, whether it's two and one, or whether it's one and two, whatever it might be, didn't particularly matter. Depending on who you were playing against, it might be two and one if you're playing against one of the team as equally as good as you, it might be one and two in front if you felt that they were weaker than you. But with England, you know, the mindset that you were kind of stepping into, which is obviously a very different job where England should be dominating most games that they would have played. Yeah. What would you have gone with? And you would have gone with a back four, because you think you should be up at eight most days. But for that, I think that mine would have been McGuire and Stones. Okay. I think I'd have had Trippier in it, left back at the time. Somehow. It is a long time ago, and walking it right back. So, yes, I did want to ask you about that. So the left back situation was tricky. It was tricky, but I mean, he played left back. He played left back right, back one. So, you wanted Trippier over it? Yeah. Because I'm not so sure at that particularly time, sure wasn't that fit. Danny Rose. Danny Rose was in the squad in 2018, but he was injured very regularly. Well, he also got injured playing for me in my first game. So, I don't know how fit he was. We're coming round to that at the end of that. But, I mean. Okay. And Ashley Young, did you agree with that idea of that? That's all right. Yeah. I mean, he was in the back. If he's in the three, he's a left or right winger. I mean, he plays for that now in his latter years. But, you know, Trippier, for me, had been one of the best. One of the best fallbacks. And, of course. So, Alexander Ronald was in the squad. He was young when he was young. As the years would have progressed, would you have, are you, there's so many different right backs that are available there? Well, there's James, and James would have been, would have been a right back for a long time after, if I'll walk around, I've been as dominant as he is. But, he seems to have disappeared. Struggling with injuries in the time and again. So, he was, he was, for me, and most of the right back. But, Trent, Alexander, I think, is still performing to the ice level. But, when you were talking about earlier, kind of, guys aren't good enough defensively, or aren't good enough, they've got one or the other. Walker's kind of, one of those two. But, you would have gone with Walker. Well, he's got both. You think Walker's got enough going forward? He's not as much as in. But, he's got some, he's got some qualities without a doubt. So, you think, over this period, over these last few years, do you think, who do you think would have played more out of these two for you? Walker, he was still walking. Okay. So, there's your back four. midfield there. Trippier, then, could play, if Walker is sure comes back, Danny Rose comes back, we've got there, we've got Gary Kale, probably a little unfortunate to be left out. Yep, correct. He was in the squad, one of the older guys as well. Nice, you know. I guess you wanted that balance as well between the sort of a few older guys? midfield on what was there. You know, at the time there were, Henderson was always the number one for me. Yeah, I thought it was, it's funny, when you look back, it was, you could understand the problem on the left hand side, so we had to make a decision. But I just wondered if, yeah, you're saying you've got four, so you've got an extra player now to kind of play with a little bit. Eric Dyer was one that could play, he was feeling sick there at times. Dyer on the right, and I think, Delly Ali on the left, are they gone far? So, gone, what's your midfield through? Oh, good. Where's Delly Ali? Delly Ali is here. Yeah. Right, so Dyer is going to come out, you would have Lingard. Yeah. So, that's what Gareth had. So, no, no loyalty there for the line of what so ever. It'd have been in the squad. It'd have been in the squad, it'd have been a long time from my first game to when the World Cup came up. That's it. And of course, you see, one even more importantly, it would have been a huge decision to leave, leave way enough, but at that time, Wayne was super duper England captain, super duper player, but he'd lost his position at Money United, at that particular time. He made him captain, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, and he's a proper captain, by the way. But I just felt by then, you know, not playing for Manchester United and not being, you know, on top of his form, because he's not playing, would have been with the players that were available. And I don't think he either wanted to come along as a sub. Yeah. Jack Wilshire, I think the injuries were kind of hitting me. Too many injuries. So that was making life difficult. Dali Ali was, I thought, at that time, was on top four. James, Milder and Retired. Well, yeah, so was there any conversations there with James? I went to see him at his house. Soon as I got there, and he said that if I'm not going to play it, I don't want you to pick me. Was that before the first game or after? Before. Right. Soon as I got the job. Okay. Because I played with James at Leeds, you know, New Castle United like you mean, and I got, he's one of the most respected players I've ever, most respectful him like me. Yeah. So that conversation was understandable between, between me and him like you mean. I think Rashford was on top form and good form. Ari Kane's called goals, as always. Sterling was on top form for Man City. So Lingard was Ryan and I, Dali Ali, a little, a little concerned about them too. You know, maybe, maybe shooting off together instead of being disciplined enough to know when to go and when not to go. You know what I mean? We're going on the pitch. We're going on the pitch, right? Yeah. Well, both of them want to discipline off the pitch by the sound of it. But, you know, who knows? That don't particularly bother me. It's what the, ever the performing at that particular time. Okay. And the last three I wanted to talk about was, so, Antonio is in your squad at the first ever squad. So he ends up playing for, for Jamaica. But you picked him in your first squad. I did, yeah. At the time, at the time we were all talking about, we, we'd down in the bathroom, staff and Sammy and everybody else. It was in form. You know, it was, it was, it was really playing well, like you mean. And he was breaking in a lot of, he was a lot of awesome performances for Westam. Yeah. So he's in his squad. To the point where he was, he was not only assisting in goals, but he was scoring them. Yeah. And of course goals is, more goals scored as you got on the pitch, but less reliable you are on how you can. Yes. Well, yeah, that's, I think that would have been an interesting ripple effect of your tenure is, I think, Antonio gets caught. You know, but like, you know, obviously the, the muting and the word of the frowns and the ooze and ours across the... You know, you're going to put him and leave him out. And you should put him in that sort of, well, you know, if we're talking about who's in real top form, like, I mean, if we don't pick one, we're never going to find one. Yeah. Whether they can handle England or whether they can't. I think there's always been a thing about Antonio as well in terms of like, you know, aesthetically, the way we bit, sort of like, ragged. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so effective. I mean, Peter Crouch had the same problem, even bigger than, than... And, I mean, Antonio, I mean, that man's talent was just fantastic. 20-plus-plus-plus. You know, on the ground, holding up in the air, some of his goals, oh, some of the goals scored. No, tried to sign him three times and never came in. Did you ever? And I think that, you know, it just, just because of his size and the way he looked, and aesthetically, he didn't look like a footballer, did he? No, I think it went against him. I mean, he's goal-recovering England, fantastic. No, no, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But then there was going, oh, you know, why I'm a big man up front, just playing it up on it. Everybody thinks you're a big man, you just play it up on the red. It's not what... You don't want to just play it up on the red. You want to play it up to the feet, it's just, and they couldn't holding it up, isn't it? So if that changed me, centre forward. Harry, Harry comes deep. Yep. So Harry's coming deep, so he was going to run off him, Rashford Sterling, two of the quickest players in the squad. Yeah, I like it. Going to run him behind, you know what I mean? So... Walcott was one of the... played in your first game. Player of the first game as well. And now, now, Winger, we were wondering if you might have had a soft spot for him. I do want to talk about Zaha. Just because I don't know if this is... basically, like, a year later, or six months later, he then decided not to play for England anymore. I feel like he's a bit of user, isn't he? Obviously, he managed him. I managed him and felt he was very... I only tell I managed him. Did I think a good player he was? Right, that's when you realised. No realised. So I did him a disservice before I got there, because when I actually got there and saw what he could and what he couldn't do, what he couldn't do, was, I mean, he was... He was part of the reason Crystal Palace stayed up that... I think we missed the trick, not making... So just give him a cap or two, but, you know, it could be Petulant. Yeah. You know what I mean? But, you know, the most... one of the most unprotected players in the Premier League. Yeah, yeah. He had to get three fouls against him before the referee had booked the fallback. It was weird. It was a standout blatant responsibility that the referee seemed to ignore. It felt like there was an even... He got more fouls. I mean, I have a lot of those, by the way. He got more fouls in the final third than anybody else put in the team. Dufy was the same, but in this attacking area, Dufy got more fouls in that. And of course, when we were talking, we'd been talking about Arsenal's cornice set-pieces goals. The amount of goals we could score off set-pieces in that area, both all the clubs I've been at, you know what I mean? Because players are fouled because the frightened of them, they double up and the two's up on them all the time. And they foul them because they can't cope with them. They can't cope with their ability. And Wilf was the same. And he used to get foul after foul. And that's his frustration ending up coming out with a referee. Because the referee wouldn't really... book the player soon enough to stop... I mean, again, he's got this foul in him, I mean. So, we've got a calm down, Wilf, like, I mean, I need going. I mean, everybody else is getting booked and nobody's not, you know. So, it was, but it was, you know, it was sometimes difficult to handle, but I mean, he was the number one in terms of... if Palace wanted to stay in the Premier League, he was the number one person to keep fit for as long as possible. (UPBEAT MUSIC) Right, let's get to the present day, or actually the future. At 2026, what team would you put forward? We're going to work our way through. Well, you won't be waiting for it. I picked fit for me, it's still going to be... You managed to remember? No, number one, yeah. I managed him when he was a son, when he was just a kid, and then I'd ever turn, and never let's sing them down. Yeah, I think... It's got the mentality, he's got the experience. Talk to me about his mentality. Is he? 'Cause I think some people wonder if he's a bit... No, it's not. Not a bit much, but, do you know what I mean? It's quite eccentric, he seems. Well, I mean, you know, some of the goalkeepers are like that, aren't they? I mean, Schmichael, onto the next-centric goalkeeper. Yeah, seven points. Being to the bollockings, Bruce, you used to get... If you looked at him, you were next in line, he used to say. So you kept away and not let him see you're in the eyes. But, I mean, you know, I like him dishing it out. If he thinks he's defenders, I let him down. I don't want to keep it to be staying quiet. Yeah, it's a bit clarity in that, isn't it? You know what I mean, there's the opposite, of course, that our calm and collective goalkeepers like David's team and over the years who seem to be cool, calm and collective loss. And then, you know what I mean? So, you know, there are both like you mean. Hall seems to have taken like five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten steps forward. This year, yeah. Seems to have come out of his shell and started to express the ability he's got. And that's nice to see with the natural left footer in that position. This man has got so much pace. You were so excited when you saw his name. Why is he so special? Because he's got what Maguire and Stones never add or kale. And that is a bit like Van Dyke. If he does slip up, it's quick enough to recover and get himself out. And it's quick enough to cover around other players and get them out of trouble as well. And I think that if we're attacking and going attacking, then that is crucial that we have that man that we know can't be outrun. Yeah. So, with Mark Gay, was it the summer where you were like, wow. Or had you seen it before? Well, just before that, I mean, I mean, he's dug another one out. Steve Parrish, I mean, he's found another one, developed another one, which is, you know, which is very good. Nice to get some captains in you. And it's good to go down there and sign players from the other divisions as well. You mean, you know, and he sees them and brings them. You know, like what? How good have he been two years? He might be in there. Yeah. Yeah. Very possibly. You know what I mean? He made an impression, but you never know. At this moment in time, that's just what I was thinking. Now, there's a huge, there's a huge amount of experience and a little bit, only a little bit of youth in there. Because they'll all be mostly prime of the career. Yeah. I don't, I think there might only be stones you about. And Pickford about 30, will they? Yeah, if you think, I guess we go from 2018 through, you know, Pickford and Stones are two. So you put stones in your centre-back pairing, they were gay. I think Bramford, you feel like, is an exciting one, but maybe one way, if you've got John Stones and he's fit and he's got a difference that he's got, it feels a bit odd not to put him in there. So I like that as a pairing and they didn't let us down. Right back, talk to me about Trent. Well, I think that James I would have hoped would have made, would, will make a comeback at Chelsea. Because, you know, I think that he's as big a challenge as Trent. I think Trent's had been rather unfortunate about the criticism, about the defending, but as at times, not been the best. But then again, you've got to weigh up how many creative opportunities he gives going forward and how many balls he plays and how many times he creates chances for Liverpool and England to score. And I think he's grown to not be affected by criticism now. Yeah, he feels like he's more of a man now. He's still going, you know, this is my game. I'll play my game to the best of my ability, and if the manager likes what I do, then I'm not really too interested about what anybody else says like me. So, you know, in this rotation, yeah, it's interesting for me, because we talk about, and people will always talk about the fact that he's preferably likes it better in here, and he likes it better in here. But there's nothing wrong with playing them together than rotating. You know, so, you know, so they, not that they'll just do it all the time, because we might want him in here. We might want him going in there and then coming down there. You know what I mean? But I do think that the balance, left footer, left footer, left footer. You know, could be. And three left footers in one team is quite unusual these days. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. So the names you were just talking about there, which just in case people are listening, that's feel, so we're going to get into the midfield here. But Sam was saying that, so first of all, Trent is the right back. I think a really interesting option there, when you want to allow him to do the passing that he can do, and also set pieces. Tripp is not in this team anymore, and he's not needed. So Trent can take all those set pieces. In your midfield, you've gone for Declan Rice, belling him on the right, and then folding on the left of a midfield three, but able to interchange with Palmer. And that's what you're talking about in terms of the interchange of those two players. And having three left footers on that left side is a really good option, actually. Has he got another left footer in soccer on the right hand side? Yeah, but he doesn't like playing on the left. Does he? No, he's, you know, I don't know if anybody ever played him on the left, but he certainly, in today's modern game, doesn't like he likes where he is. He's been, not that he can't play on the left, if you put him there often enough. It's sometimes, it sometimes can be beneficial for a player, not to play in what is deemed to be his favourite position. I've had players that have said I don't like playing their gaffes, and I said, "Well, out of desperation, I'd like to ask them." And said, "Look, if it doesn't work, I'll take the responsibility in the press conference. It won't be that, it'll be my fault." You know what I mean? And some have not worked, and then some have, and some have come to me and said, "Like I had Ricciardo Gardner as a left winger at Bolton, and I played him left back for the last three years." I said, "Where would you want, where'd you want to play?" I said, "I want to play left back. I don't want to play wide left anymore." Yeah, really? You know what I mean? So, because it became so much easier for him coming on to everything, rather than being up here in the wide, and he was great at taking people on and crossing. But here, he became even more influential coming late, coming into spaces, you know what I mean? So, and his defending wasn't bad, he got better. So, you know, sometimes the player can move position, and it can benefit them. If it can't, and if it's so well-bent, and it's not their position, then you move them back. You've got Declan Rice kind of sitting there, which he has done. Sometimes people kind of feel like he can't play in that position. I think that's ridiculous personally. And, you know, he started his head on after, don't you? Yeah, I know he played there. He was in the front-west. Yeah, yeah. And it was only, like, Moisey, I think, that moved him into midfield, that he became a revelation in there for me. Yeah, and I think he's a really smart player, so I think he's going to get better and better as time goes on. There's a midfield three, that feels really strong. Bellingham is one where... Is he a Kevin Nolan? Is he going to get involved here? Yeah, I mean, he gets the goals as well, don't he? I mean, and I think that I want them to be shared, defending responsibility. When we haven't got the ball, I want them both back in here. Yeah. Depending on where our back four is. So there's always got to be... That space can't be known more than... Wherever it is on the pitch 30, 25 metres, 30 metres. That's the last one. They say you're doing a nice and tight. You've got to keep all that nice and tight. Wherever you want to start it. If it's up here, then the back four is on the halfway line. If it's here, it's in the middle. And if it's there, if it's farther back, then they all go back. How do you feel about pressing? This team could press. I don't think you could press without a cane. Yep. I don't think it's... So you're not against it? It's just sort of... It's based on energy. No, not against it. No, no, no, not against it. Expends a huge amount of energy sometimes. And the World Cup is a long way to go at the end of a very, very hard season. So conserving your energy sometimes is very important. So a different tactic could be good for the team, not to be expending that much energy. Okay. And the final spot here, I think Saka, look, he's... Everyone knows he's amazing. Proven, though, isn't he? Oh, totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. And for England's been phenomenal. I mean, you've got Gordon. You've got Gordon. Yep. You might develop, he's going well any like. I mean, you know, you've got... So many of them. You've still got Greer Licki. Jack's not going to be that old, right? No, no, no, no. No, who knows? Who else is going to appear? What, I know... A new will disappear. The only thing that, like, if he was... James, that's what you've got to think about. Yeah, I mean... What's happened to Mason Mound? What's happened to Marcus Lashford? I think... Well, they're both playing at Manionite, I think it's with the main problem. You know what I mean? But they're not even in the city, is it? Yeah, yeah, agreed. I think, yeah. Mason Mound's a very... You know, they were like number one and number two. Yeah. The early days with Gareth, weren't they? Yeah, absolutely. We think Qatar will come and how good Rashford was. He plays with it. Sterling? Yes, Sterling's got... Still on that old, you know what I mean? No, no, it's for you. So, it's ever changing forces in... And who's going to come through as youngsters? Hopefully, there's more youngsters to come through to challenge these lads for a place. I admire what kids, I think, I really admire the fact that he's been taught out to become a goalscorer. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, because he played on the left a lot of times at Brentford, then became a center forward and he would drop deep a lot. And also, I'm impressed with... Again, who's been taught out to be a goalscorer, a slanky. Yeah. Because none of them were that prolific, a bit like Kevin Davis before. And now they've become... Tottenham, no, any? Yeah. No, no, I'm both, I mean, so... He works so hard for those. So, I mean, that's very, very important if you're going to be replacing... I mean... So, I was going to say, by 2020... It's going to be difficult for you. Well, that's it. By 2026, you're saying that... What kids will be the main man, I think? I think so. I don't think... I don't think it'll be Harry. Harry, I don't know whether... If Harry is fitting up, you may... If he accepts it, you've got to be careful about the player's reputation. You've got to... Everybody says you don't think about the reputation. Of course, you do think about what it means to him. And, you know, is... It's like with Wayne, would you be happy, you know, being called upon when... When I feel it right, or... Is that... Yeah, when you've been the main guy for so long... That's when you're one of the best ever... Yeah, it is, yeah. You know what I mean? The best goal score, the best player we've ever had. One of the best, broke all records. You know, do you want to be a bit like James when he said... James said it to me. I didn't say to James, James said to me, "Look, I've played for England for 10 years on the trot, but now I hardly ever get on. I don't want to leave my family. I've left my family, and I want to see my family grow. I've not seen them for years and years and years." When it, I guess... Because every time we've finished the season, he's been with the England squad, you know what I mean? He's been, you know... So, you know, I love that responsibility. They see, they see and they explain what they see and what they feel like you mean. Yeah, because some of the difficult conversations people are going to have to have. Tom and Took might have to have a difficult conversation coming soon. Sam, what a joy, amazing to spend a bit of time with you. Nice to meet you, too. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you for listening and watching to The Ripple Effect. Big thank you, Sam, once again. Make sure you follow and make sure you check out the podcast that we did together. No tippy tappy. No tippy tappy. Take it out. Get on it. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
James Allcott is joined by ex-England, Crystal Palace, and Bolton (among many more) manager, Sam Allardyce. The pair discuss what Sam’s England starting 11 would have been at the 2018 World Cup. Would there have been a wild-card inclusion? Would Michail Antonio have featured? And what about Wilfried Zaha?
Host: James Allcott
Guests: Sam Allardyce
Producer: Cai Jones
Editor: Finn McSkimming
Additional Production: Patris Gordon
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