Only Murders in my Mind
Episode 24: Breaking Boundaries: Female Crime Writers Who Changed the Genre
[Music] Welcome to Only Murders in My Mind. A random thought production. Hi, I'm Carol Bissett, a crime writer. And I invite you with my co-presenters, Liz Hedgecock and Mike Jackson, each week to our conversations on all things murderous. Hello everyone. Once again, welcome to Only Murders in My Mind with my co-presenters Liz. Hello. I'm Mike. Hello. Hope you're all well. And can we ask you to do the usual things? Hit subscribe, like, send us in comments. We're always very happy to hear from you. How you getting on guys? Anything exciting happening in your lives at the moment? Oh, well, I'm writing a new book. Hello. Tell us mom. Well, it's not a crime book. I mean, there is a sort of vaguely mysterious element to it, but it's a very minor mysterious element to it. Wait and see, is it? Yeah, wait and see you one. It's a kind of a rom-com sort of light fiction not let. So it won't be getting featured here. But tell me, I am pleased that I'm doing this. I'm fitting it in before starting Book of a Witch Book 6. How does she do it guys? By taking a lot of walks quite early in the day. That's how she does it. Oh, I wonder about, I won't say the word. But how are you, Mike, with your writing? Fine, thank you. I've recently, as you know, I like writing "Drabble's" 100 Word Stories. I've recently written and published a book called 100 Word Stories. And I'm halfway through writing a 100 Word horror stories, which hopefully I'll self-publish in the next couple of weeks. We'll be able to tell the difference. One should be more horrific than the other. One will have a black cover. You're not saying which. No. If you want to find out, you'll have to buy a book and make your own mind. They are extremely good, very short stories. And there is a skill too. Just try it. Try writing a 100 Word Story and see how you get on. If you please with it, send it to us and we'll read it out. There's a challenge. One of the joys of writing a 100 Word Story or joys, and that's the right word. One of the challenges with writing a 100 Word Story is that, in some ways, getting going is quite easy. And if you end up with something like 97, 98 words, finding another two or three words to make it a 100, it's fairly easy. It's when you get to 102 words and you've got to get rid of two. You just don't. It's a good exercise in equity. And then you think, if I'm getting rid of that one, I always get rid of that one and that makes it 99. So now what I'm going to add to make it a 100. As George burned a choice, say I haven't got time to be brief. And that's the thing. There is something too, polishing something of an exact size. I started out with flash fiction. So I feel your pain. When you could have an array that stuck us a little bit. But yes, no. Right. And we will be hearing from Mike in future episodes where I'll be reading. He's already read a couple out and a brilliant. So we will be inviting him to read out before we move on. What are you up to? Oh, yeah. You all said. Can't forget you. Yes. I've been saying this for weeks now. But the warranty detective series, the number four in the series will be out. I've read it and it's a cracker, so you should all buy it. Thank you. I do feel that it's probably the best one yet. I believe your advance readers are saying that. Yes. Yes. My wife is one of Carol's beta readers and she reckons it's the best of them so far. Yes. She's very discerning. She is. I really do. No, I really appreciate her input because she is very different. She is very particular about what she reads. She doesn't just read anything, does she? So the fact that she reads my books and she enjoys and means an awful lot. And it's funny because I don't sell thousands of books. I sell hundreds. And every now and again, I'll meet somebody or I'll get an email or something, you know, in on Facebook saying how much they've enjoyed it. It means an awful lot. I think it does when you get feedback like that from readers. And as I say, it makes me not based on the week actually. Sorry, but talk about feedback. That's what we'd love to hear from you. Oh, yes. His feedback on both on the podcast and also if you've not checked out the blog, the only emotions in my mind blog, please do. There's lots of interesting things happening there that you can join in with. But either one, just give us some feedback. We'd love to know what you think and where you might want us to go next. Mm. We really enjoy hearing from you. So Liz and I are females in crime. Indeed. Or criminal female. Criminal women. Criminal women. Criminal women. Criminal women. We both write about crime and people being killed in different ways. And today's episode is about females in crime. So we're going to talk about writers, characters, not perhaps real crime. But yeah, I'm amazed how many female writers there are. I mean, we go back and we look back and we know there are quite a lot from the 20s and 30s. More than I thought, actually. You know more about that Liz, don't you? Maybe slightly more. Yeah, I'll definitely. But you know, I mean, Agatha Christie always comes to mind when we talk about female writers. But there were quite a few ones. Yeah, there were loads in the detection club. Dorothy Sayers. Dorothy Sayers. She was era. She was definitely golden age. I would say we have Nia Marsh, Gladys Mitchell, Josephine Tay. Yeah, so those are just a few examples. There's probably more that I haven't, you know, uncovered yet. Yeah. And I was, I looked at more recent authors. One of the authors I read and I didn't start in the middle of this series. I started a series at number one and it was Resoli Annales, which a lot of people will know from Terry Vision. Yeah, I hadn't even realized it was a, it was books. Yes, it's Tess Grishan. She was actually, she did a guest appearance in one of the later episodes. Nice. Which is when I sort of got interested and I thought, yeah, I actually should read these quite different. The two characters are different in the book. The characteristics might be similar, but the way she describes them, because, you know, when you've watched the series, umpteen times like I have, you've got this fixed idea of what these two people, Resoli, who is the cop. And I also is the very, very clever pathologist and they work together. And again, they're so different that they complement each other, if you like. And in the book, the two different characters are together. But Mike has said before when we've been doing these episodes, sometimes the rights for the characterization and the storyline are given over to the producers of whoever's going to make the series or the film. That's right. I mean, my wife is an avid reader and she watched the Angkley, the Shetland. Yes. Oh, yes. And she said, she was watching them and said, this is wrong. It's out of sequence, that doesn't happen before. So she actually emailed or sent something off to Angkley's, the author, and surprisingly got an answer back straight away. Oh, nice. And basically, what Angkley's were saying is that when you sell the rights, that's what you do, you sell the rights, so that they can then change things around. Yes. With very little coming back to her to say, what do you think? No. You've sold those rights. Yeah. I mean, going back to, I'm sure we've spoken about it before, Slow Horses. Yes. Fantastic series, both in book and in TV form, but the TV, you know, there are discrepancies. I can entirely see why for dramatic purposes, but yeah, you, you know, you will, you will spot them because they're, you know, sometimes they're quite major. Yeah. And that's the problem. I mean, I watched the Shetland series and thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes, I did. Because I hadn't read the books. No. In some ways, I prefer it if an adaptation is either completely faithful, or it's just like, okay, we're sort of riffing on the idea here. So the BBC Sherlock, we've been at it, come back. That doesn't worry me at all. No. You know. So I just thought it's a different thing. It's a different way of doing it. Yeah. What's J.K. Rowling and all the Harry Potter films. I know that she kept a very, very... Oh, she had a tight rein on it. She had a tight rein on it. And that's why they mirror the book so well, I think. She was an executive producer, director, something like that. I imagine she could negotiate what she was cooking her ship pretty much whatever she wanted. So we talked about this in earlier episodes. I said, you know, Netflix came to me and said, "We want to buy the rights for your warranty detective series." I'd go, "Okay. Word was signed." And Liz actually said, "But would you be happy giving up the rights and seeing it?" You know. Come on, the television and go, "That's not how they are." And I did think about, and then I was put signed on it. No. But I suppose the thing is that it's going to get your name out there. Yes. Even if they play around with the story, you know, your name is still going to be there so that people will come and want to read your books if they've enjoyed the television series. Not necessarily that soon, but another series of books that you made. If you look at the Handmaid's Tale, when they adapted that, that was number one in the chart. Shocked up, didn't it? Anyway, back to women. I think it was wrong that Handmaid's Tale was. Yes, indeed, yes. So I've got a list here of other female authors and, as I say, female characters as well. They're not all necessarily female characters. Of course, we go back to our old favourite, in my opinion, the best writer of crime, from the past. And that's Agatha. Oh, Agatha's interesting. And Miss Marvel's seeing these. You know, just love it. Indeed. I mean, this, I say, because I'm a little old lady now who knits. All I need is a rocking chair, Michelle. I can, I just chuckle at the way she's such an observant person. The character is. I think if I think of Agatha Christie, that's who I think of. I think of her as being Miss Marvel. Although she was pretty adventurous. Well, she was. Yeah, she did all sorts of things. Wasn't she one of the first wind surfers? Oh, yes, she was, wasn't she? I didn't think she'd go rock climbing and all sorts of things. Well, she went off on archaeological adventures, didn't she? Yeah, with a second husband. Yes. And you've been missing for a while. She did. Not Miss Marvel. Oh, it's Marlpl on a surfboard. Now there's a lady for you. But yes, she did. She did the sales herself. In latterly, as Agatha Christie got older, I could imagine her being the Miss Marvel city setting there. And nobody notices there taking everything in and, you know, just dropping the odd word here and making people go. Hmm. Yeah. I hadn't thought of that sort of thing. I wonder if that's true, though. I wonder if these authors do replicate the characters they create. Well, do you replicate the characters you create? I'd like to be when she reminds you, she is nearly six foot tall, a size 10 with a long blonde hair. Yeah, I can go off when. But yes, her character is someone who, I mean, I'm nothing like her book. You know, I would, I would like to think that a bit of me, a bit of my character goes into her. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Cassie is more rebellious and Cassie is a sidekick, a sergeant and eventually a di who goes and sort of, she's very good. But she looks at life completely differently from. Yes. It's funny when I was doing some research ready for today's episode, I went like you. I've got a list here of the famous female crime writers. And I realized that I knew most of them from the television. Oh. And I've not actually read them. For example, Val McDermott. Warren The Blood. I've never read Val McDermott. And Cleve's. I've watched the Shetland series, but never read any of those. Why do you think that is? I don't know. Because another one, it ruled a rental. Yeah. Inspector Wake's book. I've watched. I don't. I've read all those. Yes. Authors. And watch them. Yeah. I'm the television as well. I don't know. When I think about, I don't think this is necessary. I don't know. I actually don't know what it is, but I think most of the authors that I read, when I think about it, tend to be men. I've never been aware of that before we were having this conversation. And it's an interesting one, I think, sometimes, because, you know, if you look on the categories on Amazon, you'll see things like, you know, writing for women. Yes. It's like, well, how come there isn't writing for men? Yeah. You know, you look at, like, men's adventure fiction. And it's all like, you know, mountains and sailboats and horses. And you look at women's adventure fiction. It's a load of man chests. It literally is, because when I've done genre research, thinking, I'm not putting my book in there. You know, it's like, why is it? And also, you know, that kind of thing, I think, that men want to read books by men about men. And they don't like it when the lead character is a woman. You know, you hear this in terms of, you know, getting, getting boys reading and that kind of, well, you know, they want books that'll interest them. You know, whereas I think sometimes girls are just expected to put up with the class, not all celebrities, because they like reading. So they'll read it anyway. It's interesting that these female writers, usually, not always, because Ruth Rendell is Inspector Wexford and P.D. James is Adam Dalbeach. But normally they write strong female leads, some of the, you know, these writers. And I was going to say, Ang Cleaves, Vera. Yes. You know, which I mean, I read those books and I watch them. And again, I feel they're quite close to the books, but they do write episodes for the television based on her characters. And they're not books. They're based on her characters. So they've got writers who write episodes. Yes, because she doesn't write enough books for them to, I think they do three two hour episodes, perhaps once a year. So that's like three films, isn't it? Pretty much. Yeah. So, you know, that's, they're doing it for quite a long time. Going to Val McDermott, I mean, again, she's written some very strong female characters. I'm thinking of Carol Jordan in Wiring the Blood, who was with Tony Hill, who is, you know, they sort of stand side by side as characters. And she also does one and it's Inspector Karen Perry. Perry. Now, this character is, she does cold cases. And she is very calm. She's very organized. She doesn't take any message about for her superheroes. In fact, they don't really like it. They stuck her in cold cases because she answers them back, which answers them back in a very respectful way. You know, I don't agree with you, sir. That sort of thing. So they stuck her in cold cases, thinking, that'll keep her quiet. And then she starts throwing up all this mud, you know, she's a brilliant character. And she's got a sidekick called Mint, because his surname is Murray. Ah, yes. I have to explain that to my boys. I've seen the television. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. And again, as another example of me having seen and enjoyed a television program. I think we need to set you some homework. Oh, well, the dark thing is that my wife reads all these people. And so on my Kindle, I can pick any of these book up. Right. Well, there you go. Low barriers to entry here. Yes. I don't know why. Whether it's because I enjoy the series so much that I don't want that. You're all traded by the book. I mean, the book. Yeah. Are there other male written series that you enjoy, but you also would read the book? So that's the question about whether you feel you've got enough out of the adaptation that you don't need to read the book or whether that holds true for others as well. Maybe that's not the podcast episode we need to do. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, are there any? I mean, are there any serious male writers out there? Or do they all just write children's books? Yes. Have you ever had that one? If you say you're a writer and go, "Oh, right for children's..." No. No, I do get, though, because the three of us, both me, Liz and Mike, we do talks at those times for WIs and libraries. And who else do we do talks about? Anybody who will hire us. Not that we're desperate. You're looking for the three writers to come and talk. If you've got a problem, no one else can help. And if you can find them. Yes. And people say to me, "I'm friends." Well, people, I, yeah, friends, who publishes you? Yes. And I go, "Oh, I'm an indie writer. I get published through Amazon." Oh, so you're not a real writer, then. And I'm going, "Do you find a real writer?" You know, because we've said before the people who have agents and publishers, et cetera. Brilliant. But they have very little, again, going back to, you know, what you were saying about handing over things. Yeah. They have very little opinion about what happens to the books once they've written them. They don't have any, say, well, very little say in the covers. Right. You know, and they're expected to do a lot of media work and public appearances, et cetera. Which all helps. You know, that's one of the reasons we do talks. It's to promote our work. And as indie writers, we have a lot more control, don't you think? Because you've got books, haven't you? You've got publishers. Yeah. I mean, I've got a slightly unusual relationship in that a publisher has one of my series, or at least the e-books of them. But the thing is, it had been self-published before they came to me and said, "We're interested in this." So I sort of seen it from both sides. Yeah. So I mean, it means that I had control over the original products. Yes. And they didn't ask me to change it. I mean, they've changed the covers, which is fine by me. I've got no problem with that. But it is still the same product. You know, I don't have someone saying to me, "Well, we don't want you to write that." Yeah. You know, we want another one just like that one. Yeah. So, yes, it's a different relationship. And also, I mean, Liz is very good at keeping schedules. Will you work with your writing and all the other work you do? Whereas, you know, a lot of writers will feel they're under the cosh because maybe they've been in advance and their publishers are going, "We want the first draft in three weeks." Yeah. So there's all that pressure. And a lot of people who have a really good debut novel sometimes struggle to follow that up with something as good. So there's all that pressure about being published down the traditional route. Yeah. Yeah. I remember going to a talk by Will Self, and someone said, "Is there anything you'd change in any of your books, like, you know, in hindsight?" And he said, "Well, the thing is, you know, you have a date. And that is when you have to get the manuscript in. And if you miss that date, then your book's probably going to miss its deadline." So, yeah, there's, you know, basically said, "Yeah, there's stuff that I probably would have done differently if I had time, but I didn't have time." Yeah. Yeah. So it's a different thing. You know, you can't just hold on to your book and like coddle it for as long as you want to. Yeah. Although if you do what I do sometimes and you set a pre-order up for you've actually written the book again, you do need to get it in. Yeah. Or else, you know, you can have a lot of people who are going to be disappointed. So, so yeah. And there we go. Have you noticed listeners how we have a habit of going off time? I have no idea what you mean. Someone just do it. As a woman, I don't know what you mean. As a female writer. My two colleagues here have taken us down a road that has nothing to do with people. Okay. Well, because back up. Is there both female writers? Yeah. We are embodying. Yes, there's the thing. Here. What we do. You know, if you're going to be all like linear progression about it, my, I mean, really. I'll just bloody mind it. Mid summer murders. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, I enjoy watching. Yes, I do. Who's the author? Don't know. Don't look at me. I think I've seen half of an episode, so I'm not the person to ask. It's a lady called Caroline Graham, who is known for the Chief Inspector Barnaby series, which is not known by us. Oh, right. There you go. No, I always thought. Look, screenwriters. Well, I always thought Barnaby was mid summer murders, but apparently she wrote. Inspector Barnaby series. And from there came. Uh-huh. Mid summer murders. I just thought they had screenwriters. But it's from an idea in the middle of it. Isn't it interesting? That's what I was saying before. The three of us who all know Inspector Barnaby and know mid summer murders. Yeah, I certainly have heard of it. I know it's a phenomenon. I have no idea who wrote it. Yeah. Male or female? Yeah, I'm going to go in back to female writers. I'm very successful female writers. Who did start as an indie published writer? L.J. Ross. Ah, yes, indeed. Is she still? No. Is she not? Oh, I thought she was. I think she had her own kind of press, basically. Well, possibly. But she wrote. She's big enough. She was. I think she was. Had a degree in law. Yeah, she was a practicing writer. Yeah, she was. And she gave it up to become a dream. Like a lot of people, I want to be a writer. And she wrote Holy Island, the murder on Holy Island. It's Holy Islands in it somewhere. Is that the first one? Yeah. The first one. Yeah. And then she sent it out to various agent stroke publishers. So she decided to publish it on Amazon. And it shot to number one in the bestsellers list. Now, I don't think she even realized it first. I think her husband took a look and said, do you know what's going on there? Yeah. So she decided to publish it on Amazon. And it shot to number one in the bestsellers list. Now, I don't think she even realized it first. I think her husband took a look and said, do you know what's going on there? Where's the main character in there? Oh, um, it's a DCI Ryan. Ryan. That's right. Male, female. I think it's a male. Okay. Right. Now, she's written quite a few times. She had heat. Doesn't she have a new series? Yes. I mean, she's kind of cosier. Is it the cove? I don't know about that, but I know she's... The covers look different. They're quite past to it. Certainly the DCI Ryan ones that started off with that Holy Island. She must have written most of them. Yeah. So I do read. Yeah. There we go. We've rescued you. Let's hope. I mean, she must have written, if I'm not mistaken, 20 plus for those. Yes, I think so. I think one of the things she said. She's not only specific, right? Yeah. Cos I think I went to a... She went to the self publishing. Yeah, the year before. Yeah. Yeah. And she basically says, as a lawyer, you're expected to be able to write quickly. Quickly. Yeah. No time for something that stood her in great stead. And, you know, Mark Dawson also a former lawyer. Right. Cos her is only normal. They don't fall into another. Oh, they're big. Yeah. They're big books. 70, 80,000 books. I mean, she sells millions of books. Oh, yes. Millions. So, you know, we always used to talk about, erm, credit shades are grey. That being discovered off... 50. Is it? There's a whole lot of grey. So we're on the line. You lost those. Careful. I can tell I'm not ready. Go back to 12J Ross, though. Yeah. And I don't think those DCI Ryan books have been made into a series television series. No. Why do you think so? It sure raises me. No. I wonder if that's why I've read them, enjoyed them. Because there wasn't a television program that would have been worth it, right? Ah, right. I don't know. But I'm trying to search my NSL up here. Oh, gosh. It would be fairly sad. It would be scary. Yeah. So, no, so as I say, erm, we, I believe, and Liz might, you might know better than me, that big publishing companies do have scouts that look at the stuff that's on Amazon. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what happened with her. I think somebody picked her up. Erm, and... I wonder how many of that, erm, that series she'd written. By that time? By the time she was, er, I see she picked out by a publisher. Don't know. No, I don't. Actually, I'm looking to it further because I think I think it's really interesting. Erm, so, so much for, you're not a right, real writer. Yes. Erm, so both Liz and I write, erm, about female sleuths. Yes. And erm, we're going to take the opportunity to read a little bit out of our boots. I'm going to go first. This is out of the very first warranty and detective number one, searching for evil. Number four, we'll be out soon. Erm, and as I say, my two main characters in, erm, all four books are, erm, DCI, erm, on DI, web price, and her Sergeant Cassie. They do go further up the ranks as the books progress. So, they're in the midst of an investigation at the moment and erm, it's the team meeting. And Cassie has gone for the buttery run. The following morning Cassie was doing the buttery run before the team briefing when she met John Barron. Morning Cassie, he said casually as he held the canteen door open for her. John is the pathologist, by the way. Morning dark, she slipped past him trying to remember who wanted brown sauce and who wanted red. Oh, by the way, he called after her. Nothing came off in the corpse's DNA, nothing on file. Right, I'll let them know, thanks Cassie. Oh, dark! You turn to face her. Yes? Oh, DI. Yes? You know a better than anybody else on the team. Probably. Where's this going Cassie? What planning a surprise birthday party for her are you? Cassie looks shot. Oh, god, is it a birthday? You grinned. No idea. Which tells you what I know about her. Not much at all. But you probably know more than I do. Probably. So what's her backstory, Dark? Detective Inspector when Price was an enigma to Cassie. And she didn't like that lack of information after all, knowledge's power. Do you know what I think Cassie, John Barron, looked slightly annoying as he said this. What? I think you should ask him yourself. She won't tell me anything. She shrugged her shoulders and smiled. And that's my point. John Barron released the door and headed back to the safety of his lap. Ooh. So they're a new team at the moment. And as I say, Cassie is the sort of person that needs to weigh people up. She needs to know more about her boss. Yeah. Because that way she feels she's got a better, you know, more and even playing fields. Yeah, she's a lot afraid to kind of go in with both feet. No. No. She often upsets people. She's not the subtlest. I do like her very much. By the way, I kind of made you for a go first so I could like look up L.J. Ross and it says for more under her imprint, Dark Sky's publishing. Oh, right. Which also, I think, involves some philanthropic concerns. Oh, nice. Good on her. Yeah. So there you go. And she seems like a lovely person for everything I've seen about that. Yes. You were very impressed when she did the talk. Yes. Yes. So what's your strong female character? Okay. My female character. I'm going to go back to Mrs. Hudson and I've picked a situation where she's basically been sent on a bit of a mission by Sherlock Holmes. And basically because it's the kind of mission that really she can do and he can't. So she can go where he can't. And they know that the wife of someone they're very, very interested in is taking tea at a hotel. So this is where Mrs. Hudson goes in. A table by the window, Madam. Yes, please. The waiter led the way and pulled out my chair. It is most unlike my friend to be late, I commented, looking around the room for that fictitious person. "I am sure she will not keep you waiting long," said the waiter smoothly. "May I take your name so that I can direct her when she arrives?" "I am Miss Fry." He bowed and withdrew and I turned my attention to the menu, taking care not to stare at the two women sitting at the next table. Thus far, all have gone to plan. I had read Mr. Holmes's case notes that morning and purchased more wool at the habitaches. On that errand I had also visited three ladies' rooms to assess their facilities and lighting. After lunch, the time dragged and I wheeled the hands of the clock to turn faster. When the time came, I fairly jumped out of my chair. I called goodbye to Billy and set off, diverting into a ladies' room to assume my new identity. Brown's hotel was a mile away. It was a fine crisp day and I enjoyed my walk in the sunshine, window shopping and watching passers-by through my pin snares. I turned into Albemarle Street and the cream-coloured facade of the hotel rose before me. Afternoon, Miss. A tall man in livery hurrying past touches cat to me and I realised that Mr. Holmes had just gone off duty. My watch said that it was five minutes past four. I took a deep breath and walked into the tea-room. Mrs. Yuffemia Stanley was just as Mr. Holmes had described. A short, stoutish, dark-head woman of about 40, elaborately dressed. She had an open pleasant face in an amiable manner. Her friend was around the same age, fair head and slim, with the air of a thoroughbred horse. I listened to their conversation while I studied the menu, deciding with regret that since my friend had deserted me, perhaps I should not treat myself to a full afternoon tea. The waiter returned and I ordered a pot of tea, which cake would you recommend, I asked. "The lemon sponge is popular," he replied. "Oh!" interjected Mrs. Stanley's friend. "If you're only having one cake, it should be the Dundee, my dear. Exquisite it!" A slice of the Dundee, then, please. I disliked almonds. Yet if it meant establishing friendly relations with the next table, I would eat a slab of cake with pleasure. "On your own, dear," Mrs. Stanley looked sympathetic. "My friend was supposed to meet me here. I wonder where she can be?" My innocent remark opened the door for a flood of speculation, and I had hoped from Mrs. Stanley and her friend. The iniquities of London cab men, the beastly underground railway, going to the wrong hotel. On the time when Mrs. Stanley had been kept waiting at a shop twenty minutes for bottle green ribbon. Apple green, they tried me with. Kelly green. Olive green. Oh, I was fuming, but I kept my countenance, of course. She assumed a distant, serene expression, and I could help not help but laugh. My tea and cake arrived, and I made appreciative noises as the almonds cracked between my teeth. The Dundee cake apart, I could not remember when I had last spent such an agreeable afternoon. When I entered half-morning I had made and received calls from a few ladies in the church congregation, but I was out of practice in the social graces. Mrs. Hudson, as I now was, can strain me so much that I only managed a handful of pleasantries and platitudes before making my excuses. Here the conversation flowed freely and I let it wash over me, doubting that any of it would be useful, but enjoying it for what it was. The two ladies called for the bill. I could not follow them, that would be too obvious. "I hope your friend turns up safe and well," said Mrs. Stanley. "Oh, I'm sure she will, thank you." I sip my tea and toyed with my cake, trying to avoid another mouthful. Mrs. Stanley reached into her bag. "Oh," she frowned and pulled out a crumpled letter. "I've forgotten to post this, and the carriage will be here directly." "I can post it for you," I took another sip of tea. "I pass a pillar box on my way home, and I have a letter to post too." "Oh, would you do, that would be so kind." Mrs. Stanley held out the letter and I put it into my handbag without looking at it. "I am terribly forgetful." "I put a stamp on it ready and I told myself that I should tie a knot in my handkerchief, and oh, he was John now." She waved at the foot, moved at the door, then shook my hand. "Lovely to meet you, Miss." "Fry," I said. "Ramely a fry." "Every Stanley. I'm sure we'll meet again. I'm always bumping into people." "There we go, sir." "That's contact." "Indeed, there is contact, and when she gets home, Mr. Holmes is very surprised at what she's managed to do." "Yes." "So she's got the letter with the address on." "Did she take the letter home?" "I've got to read it really, haven't we?" "Oh, there is more to that letter than meets the eye, but you will have to read a house of mirrors to find out what it is." "Oh, right." "So?" "I think we're about there." "Anything more to say on the subject?" "I haven't, I think we've had a good chapter, we've got a lot of artists." "Oh, absolutely, yes, definitely." "But it's interesting, I'm very interested in what Mike said about not having read some of the..." "I mean, I'm guilty that there are some series on television or films that I've thoroughly enjoyed and never read the books, but a lot of the people that you were talking about." "I have actually done both." "That's what I think I hadn't heard about it before, but it might be interesting for us to do a similar episode about mail." "Yes, definitely not." "And see what that throws up." "So your opinions would be, you know, the most grateful you received and we'll call it a day, so until next Thursday at 5pm, goodbye." You have been listening to Only Murders in My Mind, a random thought production produced by John Bissett. The music in peril was composed and recorded by OM Studio Strings. [music]