38x platinum group Sheppard is on the podcast this week. After spending the majority of their career in Australia, they are now taking over the US. You'll love their story. Go listen!
The Zak Kuhn Show
Sheppard talks writing Geronimo, plans to conquer the US and early life in the band
So we were coming to do this and I got a text from you guys and you were like they'll be coffee, right? Is there a coffee we need coffee? So then so then I had to go across the street and get coffee for everyone Because they because they need a coffee Are you worried because George is you're doing this thing right now where you're doing no alcohol for the year? That's right. Yeah, isn't that real? That's real. That's that's that's real Do we think maybe we should do a no coffee run Emma? Are we worried you're too reliant on coffee? Should we do it? I'm not too reliant, but this is the second bad coffee that you've gotten me Well, it's the first one and first of all knives thrown so early in the podcast This is my show. I have the ability to twist anything. Have we stopped it? We're in we're okay I have the ability to throw anything on to you. So yeah, but keep throwing shade. That's totally fine. Yeah Um, so the first coffee was from starbucks. Oh no in boston on what was wrong with that coffee that we've No, no, here's my point. Is it possible that we should do a year of no coffee? I'm are you too reliant on coffee? I'm not. I'm not actually that reliant on coffee. Hold on 20 minutes ago. You were you were basically like I'm only coming if you can get me coffee I was no deal with that. George called me. George called me And he said is there coffee and I said no and he said okay, no problem And you texted me. You said get me coffee. You were like where am I gonna find coffee? Hold on. Wait. Wait. What was the text? The text was This this was the text because I got right here. The text was from you. You said is there a coffee around? I said, yeah, we'll get you coffee across the street. So it was a vegan cafe and they only had oat milk And he got us coffee. Yeah, I do appreciate you running across the street and gave me coffee Could we imagine a full year without coffee? Could we give it up? I couldn't because it's one thing to give up alcohol, especially when you're touring like I could go with that alcohol but With that coffee and touring just sounds like a nightmare. You can do it. No, there's always something else to give up. Yeah, there's so much By the way, I don't drink coffee or alcohol. So I'm living proof that it could be done. You were I was fishing for that. You're a journalist. I was fishing for that I think we could do it. What do you do in the mornings? What do you mean? What do you mean? Do you have a tea? No, I don't Yeah, whatever energy you've ever seen me at. That's completely that's natural. No, I think that's why it's so high What do you say don't even joke about that? What are you talking about? That is regretting bringing Emma on the podcast. That's why it's so high the energy. Okay, hon. Here's the point Shepherd's in the studio. We're celebrating shepherd today Because they've got a new album out and just went number one In Australia, right? That's right. Yeah, we got the number one Australian album, which is uh, which is big news Who calls you when that happens? Uh, well, it's all on instagram now used to be you'd get a heads up But aria have sort of changed it. They posted on instagram and that's when everybody your managers the label everything It's all on instagram. It's all like an announcement. It was that this morning when they posted it was 2 a.m 2 a.m this morning had a late night So were you up celebrating? Uh, we were up sort of like silently cheering. Yeah, I have a confession Yeah, I fell asleep at midnight same so you so you woke up at 2 a.m Or you were just you just like it's 5 a.m To check my phone because I woke up and I was like, oh, I fell asleep and checked my phone. I was like, oh my god Yeah, we made it to number one and then I went back to the loop and was everyone calling you? Uh, I I woke up to go to the bathroom at 150. Okay. No joke and then unrelated to the aria You just had to pee and then excitement and then too much coffee. I was like, oh, yeah I've got to stay up for 10 minutes now and so my heart was just racing Who would have taken it who even had a shot who who would have been who who was the competition? Well, I'm actually a Bit of a fan of the band that came in number two pond so that one of the guys from it plays in tame in parlor Oh, yeah, in Australia. So he or they almost had a shot. They they had a shot. They had a great shot And they're a great band. So I'm actually like kind of bummed because I'm a fan of them You're bummed. I'm bummed So who calls you are there people that like never talk to you guys and then it goes number one and they text you like they You're their best friend or whatever friends from high school that went or what bullies from high school Exactly is that what happens when the record goes number one? Yeah, it's funny how the bullies change their tune Yeah, it's amazing how like they come out of the woodwork and they're like, hey, man Congratulations on number one. So nice. It's so nice to see you doing so well and I'm like, yeah, you're the you're the guy Yeah, it's like i'm currently working with chibani. We'd love to send you Like they're working out of chibani. Oh, like yeah, in corporate or whatever Can we send you something like a hat to wear or something? I had one of my bullies reach out once when we were with scooter brawn No, you didn't really and he reached out to me and he's like, hey, I'm up in working on these these songs I was just wondering if you could get him to scooter and I was just like What the other guy that you're the guy that just made fun of me all through high school Isn't that the best feeling feeling though? That's why doesn't that why we're all trying to do this? Yeah, it's just to show the boys That's the whole reason I would say like most of our supporters and family and friends and fans You know have really gotten us over the line and they've been there with us This whole time through the campaign and yeah way to bring it back to the positive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're here for the positive Don't worry about the bullies. It's mostly about the bullies What is what is your why, you know, when you're making goals? It's the bullies Show the bullies pretty pretty much. Yeah, exactly But okay, but the records out right now and the response has been insane And it goes number one when when you guys going back to Australia play a show on the record. It's gonna be a minute, right? Yeah, so we uh We have a festival called savanna in the round in october And then I think we're gonna tour around that. Okay. Yeah, so just wait if you're a shepherd finch Make it to october. Yeah, and the band's gonna be just hold on. Yeah, hold on I'm so excited because we didn't really tour kaleidoscope eyes which is a previous album because it was 2020 So we wrote kaleidoscope album in 2020 and that was great. That was a great year for us We released wrote and released a song every single month and that was a huge challenge for us We kept really busy throughout covid, but then 2021 we were meant to be touring at all and we're like oh the world still isn't open Yeah, so we haven't toured all of the songs from kaleidoscope eyes and our fans have been waiting a long time for us to get out on the road Like when's when was our last australian tour for example like full tour? Yeah, we it's been years and years like six seven years since we've done like a proper headline tour The demand is insane. The demand is this off the charts This is gonna be like the shepherd errors tour When you go back and do it it'll be two errors. It'll be two errors at least It'll be it'll be a joint kaleidoscope eyes and zora tour. Yeah, I mean like Amy said We we did like the whole 2020 song a month thing thinking that surely by February 2021 this covid thing will have blown over. There's no way it can last a whole year. Yeah, right, right And so it was not australia like super open like you guys were just running around doing your thing It no, it was that myth was that what was that fake news? Yeah, did you even watch the news? Yeah, australia was like like I had friends like like we have a good friend Michael chase He flew over to australia. He quarantined for two weeks and then he was he was like living his life Well, we had a Victoria had the strictest or the harshest lockdowns in the world It depends on which state you were in though that news you you meant was I watching that like the news Was I supposed to know about that? Yeah, we we did have some crazy rules that the rest of the world didn't have like the quarantining Yeah, yeah I have two weeks and people like missed family members passing away and all sorts of crazy shit That was happening all around the world anyway, but um queen's um we actually there were periods of time where we didn't have Any covid so we were allowed to just But then there was a one covid case and the premiere would shut down the whole day So there were brides who were like ready paid for catering. Yeah on their wedding day Lockdown brides and everyone had to lock down by midday and they just have to be like like wedding ruined And they're still not married that was you're not on your bingo card for the half of the way or the divorce Yeah, yeah, exactly here's what i'm trying to get though about you guys because I was just on the road with you guys For like a week and a half And we were all we were in the van and like touring and doing the whole thing and george Here's when i've i figured out every song of yours and amies and the songs you guys write are so good There's all so catchy like I love this I just had this thought but I don't understand because I don't understand how you guys learn how to do this Because you're a massive cole play fan You guys all mass are you all cole play fans or is it mostly george just being like a coldplay? George is like a super fan Like is that where will cole play that we have fans George is like a super fan So I don't understand because you were not really the music guy Until you became the music guy, but do you just listen to so much coldplay? And and learn how to play so many coldplay songs that eventually you just figure out how to write your own music Like is that how you figure out how to do this? I just like went to the university of chris mutton and uh, I just kind of watched what he did and but what does that even mean? Like what do you watch like are you and chris mutton sees it? Are you taking those songs apart and other songs too potentially? No, it's more it's not so much like how do you learn how to write a song? It's not so clinical. It's it's very much like intuitive. It's very like you're feeling something and I always like in creativity There's a difference between like the the creative side and the technical side of music and you know, you can be the greatest guitar player or greatest vocalist I know I know something about that. Yeah, but you know, it's it's the uh, it's this like intuitive nature that you have and and I always liken it to being an antenna and creativity is like and there's a bit wishy Washi, but it's like a frequency that's kind of always flying around and life's giving you different inputs And if you're open to those inputs and your radar is sort of like switched on Then you can you can pick up little clues that the world's giving you and turn them into something and uh, it's a feeling I don't know it's like a You want that magic spark to to come out of the music that you write first and foremost If you're writing for yourself, then you've got to like look for that And I I think fans sort of subscribe to that your taste of music your that feeling that you get And if you're writing for your fans, it's never kind of going to work You're never going to be able to please your fans like that But you got to please yourself first and like write music that feels good to you Like call play music gives me a feeling And that's probably because chris had that feeling or the band had that feeling first So i'm always just trying to chase that feeling of of what feels right In terms of like when we're writing a song or a guitar riff or like a chorus There's like an energy or a feeling that it gives you And then you you chase that and like start pulling on that thread and see where it leads Um, that's that's kind of how we approach every song How did you know that you had the ability to write a song though? Like did you just want to chase that feeling you thought writing a song would give you that feeling Or you want to tap into the feeling that you felt Listening to the music and you thought you could do it Yeah, I thought I think we've always had that feeling like whenever you you'd hear a song that became your favorite song Yeah, you'd get that magic like oh, you know, you'd have it on repeat You want to start Doing that yourself and like making music that does it and creates that feeling Do you become do you all come to this relatively way and like like though making music like when did you start making music wasn't it? I think we've always been musical but in terms of it being like a vocation Then and like actually pursuing it as a job and a dream I think yeah, I was 23 24 when I was back from Sydney. I was studying to be an actor in Sydney. That's what I'm saying. This is why I don't understand Well, we we do have Amy to thank uh for this band. Is that true? Yeah, I guess so I can take credit Wait, because you started on a piano you started playing guitar earlier than right? Yeah Yeah, I really wanted to be like a country artist because I really loved Shania Twain In the 90s and like Trishia would and I started learning Country music just playing on guitar because I really didn't vibe piano because I had to learn with like Theory in the exam. Wasn't her dad a classical piano player? Isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he can read music He said to you guys don't learn this way. Yeah, because he could never play for enjoyment He still can't just play from the heart like we do. Um, he can read music and play but um He always thought that that sort of killed the buzz of you know an enjoyment of music So he always encouraged us to just like follow our heart when we played and never really forced us down Still made us do theory. Yeah, I think that was my mom So in the early years, we all like everyone did it like piano lessons and then on the weekends We had like the you know learning the theory and then we'd do like exams and I always felt like a lot of pressure from that So I sort of turned off learning keys, but I found my dad's all guitar and I had like three strings And I was I don't even think he played ever. I think he just had it lying around And then I would walk around the house like pretending to sing Shania Twain and they're like let's get a fixed up and we'll get her lessons with um this guy called brook-a-tow who um was our primary music school teacher, but Little did we know had this like incredibly successful career as a session musician in Australia and had toured with this massive indigenous band called yotha yindie and also like he toured with janet jaxon and Madonna like it he was Wait, this was while you guys were in We grew up in Papua New Guinea. Yeah, but so this guy was in Papua New Guinea Yeah, he was puppet New Guinea and so he he was back home and he was became a music teacher And he taught you guys he taught you basically the fundamentals of how to play guitar exactly and saying yeah But then George came to this so lay in life because at 23 I feel like your brain is too developed to really To really to really learn how to play my still developing Right, right. That's it. Yes, but what but how did you how did you have the confidence to think that you could pick this up? I still don't know, but you were I feel like you're very competent like how he is um When he was at acting school you kind of like picked up There was a piano in the theater. Yeah, and so I kind of sat down and uh just touched the notes Well, I I just I just it just came out of me. No, this is why I don't understand I will say George is like a freak like that. He is good at anything. He puts his mind to yeah Very talented very smart. Jack of old trades. Yeah, yeah, yeah type of thing So he's like one of those annoying people who you just be like spend a month on the piano and be like yeah But he can like also, you know, just hear a song and then like sit on the piano and Well, it's all it's all an act to Zach. I'm an actor So I've just been I've been in this role of being a pop star for the last 10 years I've spent my whole life playing music and I I can't write a song to save my life I'm sure you could no I can't I took a course in college And they said the way again a in this class is to write 30 songs And if you want to get a b plus write 25 or whatever and I wrote 30 bad bad bad songs I never wrote a song ever again. Oh, I can't I can't write a song to save Well, I don't write the songs at all. Yeah, so I don't sit in on the sessions Why is that because why why are we stuck like this? I know I feel like I'm I could be an amazing songwriter I don't know whether I can't do it though I'm just not I'm I feel like I'm definitely creative in a different way Um, I'm just not great with words, but can you be a great with like melody or music? I struggle with this too though. I can't write anything Musically I can play it, but I can't write any. I know it is a real talent I met like if you actually were heartbroken or had a strong emotion and then try to write Maybe what's imma's excuse you've ever if you ever fell in love, Zach You would understand we'll get to that later in the show. We'll talk about the wait But I'm like you did you really learn base in like two weeks? Yeah, so what is based not that hard? Is that the dirty secret? I'm still I'm still learning base Is it pretty easy actually to play base? Is that the secret? Well, actually I finished I finished school and Didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was at a tape for fashion design and Like college. Yeah, like a type of college And yeah, I didn't really have the like any passion in life and then I You weren't passionate about fashion. I was passionate about fashion passion fashion. Yeah and When I was doing the course, I did really enjoy graphic design. I hated the sewing I hated the patent making and all that but I was just you know going through the course And then Amy and George Went to the Philippines together and recorded an EP. Why did you have to go all the way to the Philippines to record an EP? It was cheaper. It was cheaper to fly to the Philippines and all the session musicians the studio time Everything was going to be cheaper than hiring a studio in Australia. Who tells you this though? How do you know that? How did you figure that out? Well big growing up in Papua New Guinea, there were a lot of like a big Filipino community Um, so I think that also played a big part in it Um, we had a lot of friends who are Filipino and they sort of told us about it And they were like come over and they they had like shared our CD with like their friends and family in the Philippines So we actually had a bit of a fan base there. So we were like, why don't we go into a show? But this is pre anything I mean, I were a duo. We're right right. No, yeah, yeah So we kind of made this trip and we're like, let's go and visit our fans there We'll do a show and create a bit of hype for us because you know, Australia We'll be like, wow, who's this Australian fan with all these Filipino fans? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then um, I think we got a random gig like through a connection We ended up getting a gig at sea. Well, no ocean park ocean park was opening and we like played at ocean park And then we had like when we arrived at the airport There were like a couple of fans like a fan group had started and they then a few more people like who's coming in like Oh, this massive Australian that and then word spread and when we landed we would nobody's there was like just screaming people like crying It was like the Beatles had arrived and we hadn't we hadn't played a single show We hadn't like we hadn't officially released a single. So what even is that? That's a social experiment right it kind of was just get a couple people into you even the airport security guards were there in the crowd like Oh my god So it's just like the more the crowd grew that's insane The more people would like join the crowd because there was like obviously something big happening and then we walked out They had no idea who we were but they were just cheering because you know, these superstars It just touched out and it was this incredible experience for Amy and I being like, that was the bug That was what you said. We got to do this. Yeah, and I was like, that's when I realized that I I had FOMO screaming fans at you. You were stuck with your sewing machine like the 1920s Like just sewing in the dark with a candle is what I came in the seams to yeah I was um more so like missing out On time with my siblings and feeling left out. Yeah, uh, so I Not the adoring fans. No, not that at all. She was missing us not right. Yes, and then uh I learned base for a week in Brisbane with a teacher and I just was I hated it. I was like, no I'm not doing this. I don't like it. What? And dad was like, what if we go back to papa nugini and you learn with brookatow our Childhood teacher and I love brookas so much that I said yes and I jumped at the opportunity So I went back to papa nugini for three weeks And pretty much did like a a boot camp for base and what was he teaching though? Because your I have your base in my ears because I always like having base really hot in any situation Where is this going? No, no, it's going with that you sound you always sound really good. Like you're a great base player What do you mean? Where is this going? I was like, what's he teaching you because you're shit? No, but I do want to know what he teaches you the way he taught you like was he teaching you like scales or like fundamental theory like a bit of a bit of both and then We after I mean between that he'd be we he would say okay, let's learn a shepherd song and You had released I don't know if you'd released it yet, but hold my tongue that was the first uh song I learned on base and Yeah for three weeks just kept learning the shepherd songs So would he teach you like the theory within the shepherd songs as well a little bit like the the notes and like scales and then he would like teach me how to play it and then I'd kind of memorize that and Anyway, it came back to Australia and We put on a show at the powerhouse in Brisbane And how many people you reckon in that show at that show uh like 150 something like that 150 and Amy and George joined asked me to join them on stage for the hold my tongue the final song And he got me dead. So was this because when I was taking guitar lessons, I was seeing a teacher like once a week Were you seeing this guy like every single day? Yeah And when I was in public beginning for three weeks every day he would come over Yeah And when you like when Amy and George bring a new shepherd song to the table And then you guys are gonna go and play live like do you learn it by ear for just George show you the parts? Or like how do you learn? I found that really hard at the start and for a long time this year weirdly I feel like I'm getting better at that. Yeah, you've improved out of sight. Yeah, I don't know what it is, but um Yeah, I'd like we used to have to write the chords for Emma And then she'd she'd know the notes from learning the scales Or bass tabs. Yeah, yeah And then she would sort of like learn it on her own and then we'd do it properly in rehearsals But uh, yeah now, you know, I I really need to tell her she can just sort of hear it and and start playing it and so yeah She's definitely improving. Hopefully it's been 10 years But I don't I don't claim to be the best bass player in the world. Yeah. Yeah, but it is like it does get easier to do that Like it to learn songs. Yeah, cuz especially like the parents repeat what we're gonna say I was just saying like I From the start probably wasn't that confident. I mean, I'd never done it before and Dad was always Uh, you know always pushing us to be to get out of our comfort zone and just to get up and do it And there was times where he would make me seeing at like a resort in Papua New Guinea Like sing really by myself Everyone else During the base during the base. Yes, and I'm like not not the great the greatest singer I mean, I've got Amy and George to compare myself to and they're great singers, but I can hold a hold a note I'm not tone deaf but getting up by myself and singing in front of a crowd by myself Is like the most insane thing ever and dad would make me do it. I guess that's like sorry to cut you I guess that's been one of our biggest assets is like our parents Really believes in everything that we did and really pushed us Not in like a stage mum away But really encouraged us to get outside of our comfort zone and they were like if it doesn't work out like it doesn't matter like move on But um, I think that really helps with your confidence. Yeah, they weren't like no you got to go and do a law degree first You know, they would they were sort of just like this is your dream then it's our dream too Let's just give you the the confidence that you need to to chase your dreams and believe in them And so after we signed with chuggy we He was like yeah, our manager chuggy. He was like, okay. I'm gonna now that I can see that you guys can play live He booked us a world tour playing at festivals huge festivals like the first one of the first stages I played on was opie copy in south africa And that was insane And then people I would get off stage and people would be like, you need to smile more I'm like, oh, I don't know how to freaking play the bass I'm just trying to play the freaking bass im as long as they just like Yeah, yeah, I literally that's what my friend you struggle with calluses and blisters and things like early on No, they only ever tell the women to smile more though. Yeah, that's such a thing. No one's ever told me They told me to smile less. Yeah But here's what I'm trying to understand when you when geronimo goes number one And you guys both amy and george wrote wrote geronimo with j who's back in australia When you when this song just becomes the biggest song in the world. How cocky do you get like as songwriters? I like how do you how do you not become so arrogant and just think you're the it was the complete opposite Really for something like for some reason as soon as it went number one I I was at home on my own I can't remember where everyone was but I was at the family house on my own when we got the call And I just I went upstairs and I was like I had my moment of like yes Like a you know this pump the air And then I had a shower and I was like relaxed and then I sat down and I was like Oh my god. Now the expectation on us now and the the pressure to Of what comes next it just like all dawned on me that it was like oh my god Like where would you think professionals now with yeah and people are going to like expect this from us from now on And we were I don't know I just had this moment of like a mini panic attack as to what was coming up and um, it was it was the most amazing and surreal moment of our lives like just knowing that An independent band because it just didn't happen. It wasn't it wasn't like this was a regular occurrence You know we recorded the first ever number one out number one single on the Australian ARIA charts in Brisbane Um, it was the first Uh, it was like the first independent single in like 10 years or something like that Um, yeah, and then we got the record for being the longest number one for an independent single So it was three weeks in number one and Like the the the you can never be prepared for that. We were so young. We were so sort of like green It was our second ever single that we'd released and we we didn't quite know we didn't Appreciate it as much at the time. I don't think as as we would have now because you know, it just opened so many doors and we were just All of a sudden whisked onto this like rocket that was just going up and up and up and up and we were playing some of the biggest Um, you know tv shows. We did Ellen DeGeneres, Jimmy Fallon We just found ourselves like right at the center of this spotlight of the world of this on this global stage and um, you know, we were kind of Inexperienced and didn't know what was going on or how to how to combat it. We were just literally taking it every day one day at a time Getting completely exhausted on like these massive world tours when we only had skeleton crew. We had like two crew members and Um, it was it was very much an independent operation How would you have taken advantage of it or just mentally you feel like you would have been in a different place if it was happening now? Or how would you be treated differently or you can't even think about that But you you said that that you feel like you didn't wait. You said you didn't appreciate As much as you think you maybe would have now maybe because it just happened so fast Yeah, yeah, it was kind of it was kind of just like that that feeling of a rocket ship taking off and you just hold on And I think if we were if it was to happen again, you know, I'd be I'd be a bit more Enjoying the ride rather than like stressing out about it Hmm and I guess also like we're dealing with Labels coming at us and we're dealing with like charts. I'm like, what what chart is that? That's an american chart You just don't really know what it means. Yeah, and you're like, oh, like it doesn't make me so cocky I would I would love all of this. It's like you're like you're already so cocky This would this would enhance it This would this I would but I can imagine the pressure right like but then you're also dealing with I guess jealous musicians who have You know been working at it for a long time and maybe you hadn't found their song yet and You know, they're they're like, well, these people came out of nowhere and did you really experience that though? Was that like online or we say that to your face? I mean we still experience that Yeah, I think it's different now that we're you know 10 years into it and we're kind of established But when it happens so early on and then you're all of a sudden at the aria awards and I mean it didn't happen overnight We we were banned for how long before yeah Emma spent three weeks learning I mean to be fair we wrote to ronimo fair and square. Yeah. Yeah. No one else did it No one didn't where why do you think it really pumped off? What was the catalyst for it? Was it social media or like how did it really take off? No because social media wasn't really that big of a thing Instagram had just started Spotify had just started So I think we missed on like a lot of streams because Spotify wasn't even a thing How do you think it caught fire? I think it was the right song at the right time But people still have to find it to listen to I know and a lot of people think that you can buy success You know, but it's really I always say Talent it is stars aligning Um, it is you know the right song supportive the people that you know and meet and All of those things aligning. I think it helped that it was our second single So we had the first single let me down easy, which was the first song we took to radio and Uh miraculously it opened a whole lot of doors at radio So our our guitarist Jason his brother Worked at channel nine, which is a tv show as a cameraman And when we when we put out let me down easy on this on this first ep that we ever released He gave that cd to the news reporter that he filmed and he's like hey My brother's in this band you should check it out and she listened to it when she was in the makeup room with another host David Campbell who's the son of jimmy jimmy barns who's like an australian legendary rock vocalist And he was listening to it while she was in the makeup chair and he's like who are these guys? This is this is kind of cool. And she's like, oh, this is shepherd You know my my cameraman's brothers in the band and he did some research and saw that we'd been overseas We'd played in portland, Oregon and we'd been number one on this radio show in portland And he was like this is incredible. Who's this like Australian band? He reached out to us and asked us to perform on his morning show with let me down easy because of that like Random connection and then we we played that show and that very day We got added to radio all across the country with let me down easy which opened the door for us for that second single And then joronimo came in like just kicked down But we will say like we haven't had it easy, you know, we we released let me down easy and We couldn't get on radio in australia. No one wanted to play it Why would they because you guys were an unknown band? Yeah, even like government funded radio stations wouldn't play us. So we were like, oh The pop scene's not big in australia. What are we gonna do? And then we took it to college radio in america And that's where it really took off that song Uh, it was number one on college radio in it got to number one on I think it was k and rk in portland Yeah, so then we got invited to perform in portland at a christmas show when are we touring in portland? Do we have those dates coming up? I think it's coming up. Yeah, it could be a huge untapped fan base important Yeah, and so we performed To a crowd of 2,000 people at this christmas show and they were all singing back Let me down easy to us and we were just in awe and we were like wow This is incredible and then we went back to australia and that's when all that stuff. Yeah, they're like who's this is really there Again, it's like also creating your own luck and like following the hype and like building on that hype I think it's really important Lighting fires like nothing just happens. It's it's a lot of hardware Yeah, so when you go into the writer room post this song blowing up Is every idea not good enough or is every idea? Like a bad idea or do you get into fights because you say no, no That's not could be the next to ronimo or like is that what would get out of your head and out of your way I remember I remember you guys struggle a bit when you went to stradbro Yeah, there was because ronimo was the last song that we wrote for the first album and it was kind of like uh You know, we we could have been saved for the first single on the second album type of thing But we we it was so great like it was so much fun. It was a really great. Did you know it was Oh, we we knew that we we loved it. Yeah, it was just like had this energy. It was infectious And when we started playing it shows People jumping, you know, they love it and they'll be like, oh, what's that song? Yeah, yeah There was there was definitely a good vibe about the song So we decided to put it on like as the last addition to bombs away And then it blew up and when we got whisked away on this worldwide tour for you know a year and a half two years And then because we're on tour We didn't have time to go into the writing room and like, you know try to follow it up And so by the time we'd finished the world tour and the label's like what's next? You know, what are you guys got? And we're like, oh, we haven't even thought about it. Yeah, it's like nothing We haven't got anything yet and they're like, well, you know, time's ticking. You got to follow it up quickly So we had this pressure from the label. We had this pressure from ourselves. We had all of this like You know a wave of like promo and like attention on us from this massive international hit and The three of us Amy J and I we kind of Yeah, we we didn't implode but we we had like a bit of a tough time Even starting the second album trying to figure out what The what the sound of shepherd is where we're going to go because the first album is kind of like quite eclectic in terms of the The different styles and genres that we were sort of tapping into and drama was like this own Its own like outlier So we spent the whole like first part of the writing of the second album trying to emulate drama and being like all right It's 142 bpm. It's four on the floor. It's got these like tribal vibes to it Let's go and like no surprise. It never worked. You can never just like drama mo's written It's done. It's it's its own thing. So you've got a sort of like wipe that and just Start again essentially What was the first song you wrote on the next album that you felt that made the album that you feel really good about was That was like the first song you really liked After german mo it was keep me crazy. Oh, that's my favorite song Yeah, that was the first song that we wrote for the second album that we that we were like This is this is really fun. This is a fun tune Yeah, and the label really liked it. And so we kind of went from there How do you come up with that? Like what is that how did that song work out? It was that piano riff? It was You come up with that riff Yeah, and I think the yeah, there was Somebody else throughout that Just that sodding of the chorus and do you feel like there's a light in the at the end of the tunnel? Like you're str- I can picture you in the rarer's room for weeks You're like no, it's too drawn about get rid of that and then all of a sudden you come up You say what about this is that is that how it happened? Pretty much. You play that riff and you go, okay, that that could be a good riff. That'd be good And this is a good this is good advice for you as a songwriter zach. Yeah, yeah You always stop it's it's like trying to build a sculpture and you start with a bit of clay that is just A blob and it doesn't look good and it doesn't like represent anything, but it's an idea It's something it's something to start with and it might be a guitar riff. It might be a chorus line You know, it might be gibber. It's just going Yeah, but you know, you keep on like honing it and keep on like Slowly putting the detail into it and adding things and taking things away and and building it like a like a sand castle or a sculpture And that's kind of how keeping crazy came about, you know, you start with that piano riff And then and then you add like a little chorus line onto it And then you start to, you know, build the lyrics and the verse and Eventually it becomes this this sculpture that you've you've created with your friends And it's like a pretty cool process, but it doesn't look good at the start And you know, anyone out there who's who's a songwriter and he's trying to learn how to how to write music Don't be afraid of of the blob at the start. Also, I think this was the first time we were collaborating with other writers We were in LA when we were at keep me crazy with Pete Pete Thomas and Karl Morman And um, I think that really Mixed things up got us got us outside of our heads as well I think that was really instrumental to us like starting a new Page and like leaving Geronimo as its own thing because after Geronimo, I think we felt pressured to always write our songs With just the three of us and we're like, no one else is going to come into this Genius songwriting zone. Why mixed it up? It worked. Why why mass with it? But then after Geronimo, I think we had too much pressure And so we just needed somebody to come and shake shake it up And so there were there were three, you know, very strong headed writers in shepherd That had different sort of ideas of where it was supposed to go And so we kind of needed that person to to come in and be like Oh, you guys this is the overarching thing of your three ideas and here we here we go You're like you can go in this direction It just helps to shake it up and that that was like the first trip that we really found the The value in collaboration with with other songwriters and producers That's great advice because i'm trying to write a hit song because I want the money that comes with it So any advice I can take To write a hit song what we at what point in this I think between the second album and the third album You had you had a crazy vocal Situation right like you had to get vocal surgery ideas. What was going on with you? When when was this in the timeline? This was between albums two and three between yeah, yeah, we're toured Watching the sky. We've done this the ginormous regional tour in australia Which if you ever go to australia, it is it is not a country of highways. It's sort of like it's not an easy Single lane Yeah, it's not made for buses and sleep at sleep events So doing the regional thing in australia is kind of like a mission And it's always a wonderful experience because the people in those towns never get Artists coming through so they really appreciate it and it is like the energy is always super high Was that when we did we had a bus? We did we tried to have a bus. Oh my god Like one of the three buses in australia No side note. They don't do that in australia. We had this one bus and the aircon broke down and this is like during summer in australia and we were traveling north queensland and We were all ended up just the whole band Brought undies the boys just in a undies like sitting at the back of the bus like It was it was not not fun. The glamour zak the glamour of touring. Yes So after pretty much as soon as we finish this tour we had booked a um u.s. Tour right in november right over thanksgiving, which was a nightmare Logistically, it was not a good idea And on the flight over I somehow managed to catch this chest infection that Even to this day gives me like the heebie gb's how bad it was And I have such huge anxiety and ptsd from that sickness and having to go into a It was like I just it was so painful. It was so stressful It's like having a guitar that you can't tune. Yeah, by the way, we were all sick on this last tour Everyone was sick on the last one. Well, was it anything like that? No one was sick apart from me. I was on my deathbed. Yeah, yeah You were not sick though. No, I I was yeah, that's exactly right. Zach was an ex-person drink coffee around I was I was gonna say that thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but boys We know how you felt with this because Emma had a mild cold. That's right So I had to I had to get through this tour and I really pushed hard and I probably damaged my voice in in a Serious way and I got back from that tour And uh, we were recording with john hoon who I think you know. Yeah, I don't know john. Do I know john hoon? I love john john. John. John is a great guy. Yeah, he's produced a bunch of our songs but we were recording with him We were recording with him in bar and bay and I like I was on the microphone and I just I wasn't drinking I was getting great sleep and I just couldn't quite clear my voice and I was just constantly like All right, let's try that try that take again And I think it was on like day three or four where john was just like hey, I just you know, just listening to your voice You know, you probably want to just get it checked like go to a Inhos and throat specialist and just get him to have a look at it because you might have something there So I went and how nervous were you had to be freaking out? Yeah, I was kind of nervous and I went and I went and saw one of the best in the world matt broadhurst who is in britsman There's like one guy in britsman one guy in melbourne one guy in new york apparently who who who can do the surgery and This guy Looked in my look to my throat and was like, okay. You've got some you got some lesions Which is like the start of a nodule or start of a polyp It's kind of like the more you sing, you know, like after a big show your vocal cords will swell up Just like, you know, you've had the pump on in the gym And so if you don't let them rest and recuperate And you go and do another show the next night and push hard for example They'll just keep on like swelling up until they get so swollen that they split there's like a literal split in the membrane Which then heals over and becomes scar tissue And it's it's essentially like a callus like you get from playing guitar on your vocal cords Which is not not a good one. Yeah, because it's it Yeah, it means you can't hit certain notes and it's not a clean sound and yada yada yada So I had to go and get surgery to get those lays it on how they do They're going through your mouth or are they going through the through your neck? No, they're just going through the mouth through the mouth. Yeah. Yeah, and and you couldn't talk for two weeks, right? I had to be silent. I had to go into a like Like the oldest monk state up in the cabin in the woods freaking out I think we were all freaking out at that point. Yeah, I mean more so for George No, but selfishly you have to be like this like this. This is all going to fall apart. Yeah, we didn't know what what You know the future held for shepherd and we were we were actually recording die young at the time And that's kind of what the song became about it was like oh well if this is the end of it in the end of the band Yeah, it was very dramatic How replaceable is George. Do you think you could find another singer to come in and feel you could you could feel in any time? He's irreplaceable. We can't do it without each other the way you look at yourself in the mirror when you're playing guitar I could do it. That was the audition right there. That's right. We'll just tell that story really quick We were in rehearsal tell the story tell the story We're sitting in rehearsal. This is this is Zach's first rehearsal with the band And uh, we're all like sitting there in a circle playing the songs and I look over at Zach And I catch Zach looking in the mirror at himself, and he's just loving it He's just like he's got a guitar. He's playing in a band Palestine and he just had this. You know what that comes from though. Can I be can I be serious for a second? You know that comes from that comes from like performing on stage And sometimes watching videos back of me performing And then thinking I look like really awkward or you think like sometimes you think you're doing this like massive gesture on stage And you watch the video back and it's like this very small thing Or it doesn't look like the way you do it. Yeah, so I like I was looking at myself being like is the way I feel like I'm Standing actually how I look in the mirror is the sexiness. I'm feeling the sexiness. I feel like actually translating And George just caught me like at the wrong time absolute best time I'd really stop reading that moment. We had to stop the song. Yeah, it was too much Here's the point though. The new album is out now. Just went number one in Australia So we're celebrating Zora the new album. How many songs are on this by the way 16 16 songs on this album For all you shepherd fans to go listen to some of them are quite good actually No, no Most of them are actually really good because we're playing them on tour. I'm telling you daylight is incredible Good time is on this record. Some of these songs have been out for a while. Yeah, it was a it was a long lead into this album Yeah, it just kept the you know that the date kept changing on us Really want you want to talk about it feels like you want to talk about? Oh, just no, no No, we we had this album ready for a while and and we've always wanted to get it out But you know again things have to align and the real nice little line who's telling you guys what to do What what's getting in the way of just Taylor Swift Taylor Swift on the way? Yeah, I mean Taylor Swift get in the way There's a lot of there's a lot of like silly considerations that you have to sort of make when you when you're releasing an album I wish that you could just be like hey, that's it the album's done put it out next week But like, you know, the label might be busy working on another release And so they won't have the resources to push it the way that you are hoping for them to push it So you'll be like, okay When's a good time for you guys to release it in your busy schedule and then we'll be like, okay September and we're like cool and we we hustle to get it done for september And we're like, yeah, it's done. It's ready to go And then they're like, oh, we're gonna push it back to february now because you know such and such is gonna release Christmas is around the corner and then so february comes along and then Taylor Swift announces that she's touring Australia And it's like oh, well, we don't want to release in that way because nobody's gonna even notice an album's gone So things like that where it's like you've just got to find this like perfect gap in in history To be able to load it out So we we came It's number one in a Number one Australian album and then on the overall charts where number eight and Taylor Swift still beat us Yeah, it's fine with her area I think that's a that's acceptable dead poets dead poets. Yeah, whatever It's like nearly impossible for an Australian and independent because we're independent in Australia To beat Taylor Swift like it's impossible. If you're the first In Australia now, it's like if you're the number one Australian like that's the main chart Because it's just like we're Australian like we're not going to beat We're Australian of course. We're not gonna beat Taylor And this tour so we just got off this tour Where we were all over these coast and this was so crazy because you guys haven't toured these coast in six years You haven't tore american six years. We sold out not we because i'm not this is mostly you guys You sold out Like every single date on this tour the fans were screaming every song and not even drama like they were singing Deep cuts weren't they like yeah, I thought it was crazy like people were obsessed with these shows They're so happy to be there I think it really took us by surprise. We weren't quite sure if we even sell out 200 capacity after not touring for six years Um, we've been releasing music and we could see that our songs stream really well in the states But you just can't really because it's different predict whether they're gonna come to the show And so to have people Come with such enthusiasm was a really welcome surprise. It was a real a huge relief as well Because now we're gonna go out on the road again. We'll have to hit the east coast again at some point But um now I guess we have a bit more of a gauge that it's like okay. Yes. People know our music They know that we sing our songs and um, I feel a bit more confident going out on the road now I definitely think one thing we struggle with because we have so many we have lots of streaming um stats in America, but I think because our songs are added to pod car. Sorry to playlists that Some people just love the song, but don't know who it is. Yeah. Yeah, so we do have that problem And that's one of our goals in America is to connect the dots there Yeah, because we'll often sometimes we'll play a festival and people will come up to us afterwards and be like, oh my god Like coming home is my running jam. I just had no idea that you guys sung that and then another person will come up and be like geronimo It's like my high school song. So Yeah, it's really nice to like do the shows and have people realize that we have like a few songs under our belt now Yes. Yes. Yes. And now now the west coast dates are coming She has her. Oh, no Really? Yeah, they're coming. They're like two weeks away. What do you mean? That's not an ounce jet. How are you gonna sell tickets? What do you mean? Well, we'll cut it out No, I'm kidding. You can you can you can let's announce it. Let's what are we announcing? Well, let's announce it. Why not? What do you mean west coast tour? What do you want? This tour is in like 10 days. How is this not announced? I thought it's not in 10 days It's in like 30 days. It's in like yes in over it's july or like for august august through september I don't want to get the ban in trouble here. How is this not announced yet? Well, because I think we literally just came up with the dates and yeah, we're like We're booking in the venues and um all of that and we're probably gonna get in trouble by managers. Oh, I don't announce it Whatever. No, let's announce it. Why not? Where do we west coast tour? We hear it and he's actually coming with us the I got this is first of all No one's asked for me if any of these dates work. I got a text from Liam the other night He goes what's your email? I shoot my email he goes I came to add you to all these dates all of a sudden like 20 dates get added to my calendar I haven't committed to any of these whatever you've got that cancel it cancel it cancel it We're going on the road, baby. Wait, hold on. There is a tradition here on the show What typically when I have groups in that I'll harmonize one song with them Oh wow, can we harmonize a song from the new album? Is that too much to ask? Yeah, can we find one song to harmonize on? I'm a horrible singer. That's the problem. Do you want to do let me down easy? Because that's like the the install. I want to do is can we do a song on the new album? What can we do from the new album? Do you want it good time? No, but something that really is like a good harmony part. I love like that What's got the best harmony part? Maybe love like that. What's your favorite song in the album on the new album? I'm looking at them all right now. I'm trying to think of what would have the best What about got to be love? I know you like that one. I love that one. You should put a guitar No, no, no, no, just our voices. That's all we need But what's what's gonna have a good chorus to harmonize? Is this gonna completely detract to anyone from listening to the album? No, no, no these clips do really well when we post them What's the what but I want someone that like really is gonna sound good when we harmonize it Like daylight daylight. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. How's the chorus that go? You hit me like daylight Making me A four-part harmony. No, what do you mean? You have to join in on this Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, burn up my sky sky sky sky. You hit me like daylight Making me open my eyes Your love is like every single Come magnify But some some something like magic Changing my energy flow Whenever the world around me starts to lose its glow You let up like a life. Oh, that was good. That was good. Okay. Let's do it two more times. No, I'm kidding We got that whole time. Zach just sang unison. I'm the only one that did a harmony. I told you I was He's practicing the back. I thought you were good. I thought we were gonna do a three-part harmony I was good unison. I don't have the ear to sing harmony. Zach's just practicing to be my my stand-in I can't sing harmony. George needs an understudy. So yeah, also you need to learn the lyrics I only flubbed one lyric there. There was only one lyric I flubbed. All your vocals are off when I when I'm playing No, that's not true. I need the vocals to play Shepherd on the podcast the new album is out Zora number one in australia And it's number one in america too. Let's just say that. Yeah Stuff is who's gonna care about anything? Let's throw it out there Uh, and there may or may not be a west coast tour And if you live in the east coast and you missed it, you're done. You're That was the last chance. That's your fault. I'm so sorry and um You got us in the record zora's out now. These songs are so good. We're very proud of it It's really it feels too like a departure from the classic shepherd sound but it's very shepherd at the same time But there's songs on here that expand the sound expand the brand That was the goal. That was the goal, right? Yeah, this is definitely our best album yet. I'm not biocetal Do you feel that way? Do you feel that way with every album though or do you feel like this one you feel different about it? We are definitely getting better at what we do. We're honing in on the sound It just doesn't happen on the first album You know the first one was like a mix of all the songs that we had ever written in our lifetimes And then you realize that you really have to hone in on the sound and I feel like this is the Complete shepherd package. This is um and I really am proud of this album from sorts of finish I love it. Lastly, there's been how many guitar players have been the band three or four? Can we rank them all from favorite to least favorite? Can we rank the guitar players in the band? You're still wait, you know, you're not there yet. We can't rank you yet. Okay final question If if george final final question for george if you're if you were in a sinking boat With uh chris martin and amy and emma and you can only save chris or amy and emma. Yeah, who do you who are you gonna save? Don't don't get me in trouble. Zach. I can't answer this question here at this point But it off records. Let's just let's say yeah on the record on the record amy and emma amy and emma. Yes. Yeah, so Sorry chris. It's it's siblings. You got understand family. It's family You've got understand but off the record off the record. We'll talk chris mountain can be my surfboard can be your surfboard And the three of you can get on chris's back He's a long he's a tall guy. He's a tall guy. Yeah, he'd be like the remake of the titanic Oh He could be the plank that saves everyone. I'll never let go chris. You could all get onto it This is getting weird. This is this guy. We're not a stalker. I promise. I got it got weird. No, no, it's fine. It's fine Shepherd thanks for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me on the road with you Thanks to have a house. It was your pleasure. Zach. It was it was so fun. Yeah, it was so it was such a great week And hopefully next time I'm not so sick and then you no one said what then you can hug me I kind of liked you being sick because I could just stay away Yeah, and I it was I excuse to just go actually have to hang out with us next tour I feel like I hang out with you this tour. Did I not hang out with you this tour? Zach requires his own vip sleep a bus Best memory of the tour was well, I guess I think we were in Philly. We were staying up for sound check And Kathleen starts passing on strawberries to all of us. That's a good person in the on tour Yeah, how much that's the best average pressure is that when you you guys all got married between the last album cycle in this cycle How much pressure is that when you guys bring home like a spouse to? Are you thinking that oh my god? I really hope everyone else likes this person because now there's like a crew of shepherd people yeah, I mean Kathleen has been around for so long. I guess everyone's been around a long time. Yeah, you've got to weed out the Yeah, I my last boy. I was not was not like not really and So it's nice to have a husband that they were together for two years I never had his number in my phone really or did you have it like unsaved like he would text you and you wouldn't save it Because I do that all the time. No, like we just we never spoke like outside of him and Emma Can you imagine if that oh my god? It's like we're so close the six of us. I just can't imagine having one Spouse that we didn't like that would just be a nightmare I feel like if I start dang selling you guys are gonna have to approve the vetting yet process That he's got to fit in with it with the shepherd crew. Yeah, she's that's my concern I feel like it's a long pressure to fit it. Well, we'll find you we actually called it the find a zach Find zach cune a wife to a 20. That was the secret name of our group chat It actually was the thing was find zach cune a wife ladies He is single and he is ready to mingle the problem is though We'd have to say that every nice how to ride a jingle the problem is with this tour is we got off the tour With the way it was arranged we got off stage Packed up and we were on the road. Yeah, there was no time to scratch even socialize Like I ain't having a time to go up to a girl at let alone meet her let alone anything I was busy working hard. You didn't even want to socialize with us let alone exactly Exactly. That's the problem. We need to do like some two nights in a city or something where we can like Spend the night. Yeah, just think about just think think about routing your tour around my love life Yeah, we gotta we gotta manage the the schedules will be a bit efficient. Yeah, yeah, yeah, please shepherd on the podcast We kept them too long. Thanks for coming on in Nashville. We'll see you guys next time. Pleasure's out. We said it all we said it all we're done We're done. We're done. We're done. Wrap it up. Oh my goodness - Good job. (clears throat)