Welcome back everyone to the front line with Joe and Joe. Joe Basilow and Joe Restonel you're exactly right Joe We work for the man upstairs as you do you're setting me up quite well You just gave me an alley youth the greatest revolutionary act to commit right now is to open your mouth and speak the truth Whether you're an academic or you're a regular guy We have to be fearless and once more dear brothers and sisters. Let us go into the breach Hello again everyone and welcome back to the front line with Joe and Joe Joe Basilow as always joined by Joe Restonelo And once more dear brothers and sisters Let us go into the breach on the Veritas Catholic radio network 1350 on your am dial 103.9 on your FM dial spreading the truth of the Catholic faith through the New York City metropolitan area two things Please as always we ask you to download the app the Veritas app share it with your friends You'll have access to all of our station's content We are an EWTN affiliate so you don't just get all the original program But you also get everything from EWTN. Hey, if you like what Joe and I do we mix it up on social media At multiple sites so you could find us primarily We'd like for you to help us on rumble and Twitter But we're also on YouTube and Facebook until of course YouTube and Facebook take us down Which I'm sure is coming very shortly because they don't like when you spread the truth of the Catholic faith to the New York City metropolitan area So help us out wherever you can so Just me before coming on I mentioned to our guests that we're speaking to do today We have Joseph Gillian Gonzalez and Monique Gonzalez and they've written a new book out from Sophia press We always ask you please buy the book from the publisher Let's support our Catholic publishers Catholic bookstores along with our Catholic authors Guadalupe and the flower world prophecy how God prepared the Americas for conversion before the lady appeared Joe I think this is right up our alley. What do you think? Oh, I would say so Joseph. That's right I think more I wish more Protestants and atheists would look at the the the miracle of Guadalupe and Understand just how profound it is and how how it converted so many people and it's like we're gonna get into In this conversation. So this is gonna be a great one Let me give a quick bio Joseph Gillian Gonzalez as a composer for award-winning films TV show stage productions and concerts His music's been performed at Carnegie Hall the Sydney Opera House Walt Disney concert Hall the Vatican and other prestigious venues a the Walt excuse me a 30-year Hollywood veteran Gonzalez composing credits include the Academy Award-nominated featured documentary Color straight up the Emmy award-winning made a study classical voice with various notable vocal instructors included in Alfred Binod She has been a professional campter at several prominent churches in LA New York City and Ann Arbor, Michigan she's worked in marketing and promotions for various Catholic pals postulates including you magazine legatoos defenders of the Catholic faith and Ave Maria radio She has wrecked up sizable credit list as music editor and score production coordinator for several movies and feature Documentary so Joseph Gillian Gonzalez and Monique Gonzalez welcome to the front line with Joe and Joe our friends Thank you for having us for having nice to meet you. It's like we're Joe Joe Joe and Mo today That's good. I love him. That's good. We should say a prayer to say Joseph and get him in the mix All right, so with that this is like I said, I mean this is right up our alley I wish more people would would really pay attention to Guadalupe and everything it means But that's why you guys are here So we're gonna bring that message out and we're gonna blast it on Veritas and all over social media Joe Recinello Let's get rocking guys We always begin with a prayer to our lady and name of the father son Holy Spirit Amen remember almost gracious Virgin Mary never wasn't known that anyone who sought your help or sought your intercession was left unaided Spy by this confidence. We fly into you a virgin of virgins our mother to you We come for you. We stand sinful and sorrowful Well mother the word and car night despise not a petition's been in your clemency here and answer a say ma'am Our Lady of Guadalupe pray for us But before we get into the topic at hand Joe specifically as Joe piscillo was reading your bio. I noticed you work for the Bulgarian national radio symphony I bring that up because I used to work with Bulgarians Really and when I was with Morgan Stanley not with them anymore, but I work there anyway, so great great country I went to a Bulgarian restaurant in Long Island City. Oh Reason why I bring this up is I I mean Italians we drink wine you guys are Latinos you drink wine most You know, European derived cultures. They drink hard liquor as they eat I have never in my life this Brandi as I'm eating dinner joke so it was the craziest dinner. I've ever been to in my entire life They're just like boring shots of oh you never had Johnny Walker black with your chicken Parmesan It's great. It's a great culture. We went to a Authentic Bulgarian restaurant. We were there. They had it like the throat singer or something That is really wonderful. We felt like we were in the world of the the seven dwarfs, you know from the old old old film Not the new one, but it just it's the way it looked. It was it was just a great time I'm sure we're gonna get into it in a little bit because we're gonna be talking about our lady Guadalupe But there's so many great areas particularly in Eastern Europe and you look at some of the countries where the Catholic faith is vibrant there's a there's a vibrant Catholicism and But the rest of Europe and we're gonna get it The rest of Europe needs a visit from our lady Now time and let that bleed over into America Joe rest in L. Oh, so I guess first with Monique like what attracted you to the You know the devotion to our lady Guadalupe and then Joseph because I have one as well. I know Joseph is so let's start there I think it's a good grounding jumpstart I'll make it kind of short my my story has to do with the fact that I was actually very resistant to our lady I Guadalupe for many many years. I had difficulty with the Virgin Mary So when I converted to Catholicism, it was always like Jesus Christ only for the for the longest time But and I credit Penny Lord for this. I don't know if you know who she is. She's a yeah I used to watch the money W10 her and her husband. Yes, I know that yeah Yeah, yeah So what happened was I was friends with her grandson and one day she pulls me into her office She goes Monique. I believe God is trying to tell you something you need to Behold thy mother. I keep hearing the words behold thy mother and she's like and because of that I have to give me this book I don't know what it means But I think you need to get to know his mother because you can't love him unless you love her and from that point I started intellectually informing myself. I struggled it for a really long time, but around 2006 I had an experience, shall we say and it was a very deep Healing of some biochemical issues that I had and it was a situation of from one day I was immersed in these biochemical issues and the very next day. They were completely and totally gone and I experienced Joy for the first time Which kind of shocked me I'd been a devout Christian up to that point But it completely foot for me through our lady a Guadalupe and from that point on I kind of feel like I'm indebted to it I have to give my life over to her and then with within three years. I met Joseph and then his What he's gonna start with and what he's gonna explain right now is what pulled me all the way in and it gave me clarity as to why I Was healed in 2006 right and thank you. Thank you for that Monique. Joseph. Yeah So my situation with Guadalupe is I'm Mexican American You know raised in the in the barrio of central California and in Guadalupe is everywhere If if you're raised in that environment number one my grandma's name is Guadalupe. I went to our lady of Guadalupe elementary school I used to sing this song called las mana nitas Which is actually written in honor of our lady Guadalupe, but it's actually kind of the Mexican happy birthday song So it was everywhere and but as I got involved in film scoring and moved out You know Hollywood and start doing that whole thing. I You know it waned definitely, but what really put the nail in the coffin for me in terms of Wiping out whatever her faith. I had left was because around the not early 1990s I was inspired to write a piece of music a concert or a torio and this is directly tied to our book side It's tight. It's tight part of the story. What happened is that I I wanted to set Aztec song poetry to music So I had to get into it, and I started doing a lot of research in downtown LA That's where I used to live at the time and I I found this book called gantares Michicano songs of the Aztecs and I I opened up the very first poem and I read it and it was about a singer looking for flowers And he was hoping to find the flowers so he could put it in his Kilma and show those flowers to the lords and princes and I was so shocked because any Catholic who who knows the Guadalupe Narrative can see the similarities right away and what happened is I turned to the back of the book To see what the author said I said gosh, I've never heard about this and the author said well, obviously this earlier Aztec flower songs are the source material for a fabricated Guadalupe narrative This is the way that the Spanish did this They they they used things from the culture in order to manipulate and do the indigenous, right? And this was used as a proof text by a lot of secular scholars to show people off. This is all fake This is all made up so and it affected you it affected me But just basically I thought whoa, this is the smoking gun This is I actually thought this is the way they did it. This is the way they do this is the way they did it To everybody so anyway, I I did a little bit of research at the time and then I I I thought gosh This is okay. Let's just Decided a little bit too much for me. Hello right now, but anyway, so We've I fell away, but it connects when Monique and I met in 2009 with her fake journey and then ours meeting so So the the way it bounced over to me is Joseph hadn't been practicing for a while and then he had a massive conversion in 2008 right before he meet he met me so when I met him we knew immediately and He we're gonna get married and we're gonna get married and he hired me as his assistant And this is important because what happened as hard as I hired her hired me He handed me the book of the cantatas my hicanos because a Carnegie Hall at that time had invited him back To do the entire mesa second. He wanted to add a couple more movements He's like okay more sections to it. So he hands me the book of poetry and says, okay Can you help me find some more poetry to build these songs off of so of course I go to the very first poem and what do I see? This story that sounds just like Arleta Guadalupe. I'm like, oh my gosh, what is going on here? So I pull him into the room like did you see this? He's like oh yeah flipped at the back of the book and so I read I read what the author had to say his name is John Beer so I'm there of course, but as opposed to how Joseph took it I guess because I'm a convert because the way I came in my mentality was oh, well Here's an opportunity to see how God actually used this and maybe they're just reintroducing misinterpreting it So that moment spurred on a 14 year journey of intensive research Define on what exactly what's going on? Why is why is anybody talking about this? Why are these two accounts so similar? Is it really true that the Spanish were using this to do the indigenous and we can't believe it But yeah, but in my experience like God can handle the hard questions He can handle us throwing sort of so to speak the kitchen sink at him because there is an answer If we just if we just dig and so that's the food of Guadalupe in the flower So we called it our wonderful obsession Yes, and in between doing movies, you know working on movies working on TV shows We said, okay, we're gonna get to the bottom of this because this is just too weird And I know we're giving you a really long answer, but I love it. I love it. This is interesting Yeah, I mean the reason because you're asking about our devotion and our faith journey with Guadalupe But it's all centered about it because for me, I I needed to know proof I needed to actually see it in front of me and as we did more research And I mean we did lots of research. We went to libraries. We ordered books We actually read papers mesto American conferences. We a lot we met a lot of these PhDs and scholars that we were actually reading about and we had discussions with them some of them we actually filmed That's another story, but eventually if you add what we call the flower will prophecy hypothesis to this It we came to the conclusion that is impossible that the Guadalupe story could have been fabricated There's in fact, right in fact, that's part of our premise And I'll just say it right now that the Guadalupe flower will prophecy We're saying that the four days the when Guadalupe met Juan Diego in December 15 31 was not an isolated event It actually was the culmination of 3,000 years of Evangelical preparation so to finally answer your question for me And I guess for both of us is that we saw this great miracle that it happened and it It really deepened my faith even though I had converted and I thought gosh What cemented it it cemented it and and now you know, of course, we're open to perhaps other information But I can't see how it is we have read it. There was this point. Well, I think we've read pretty much everything We it just it is just impossible and and what it is showing is a Grand metinear narratives. Yes. It's showing how God self-ific plan played itself in the Americas So perhaps I'll conclude without Well, let me let me ask you this if you're just joining us Joseph Julian Gonzales and Mannee Gonzales We're here discussing their new book on the front line with Jo and Joe Guadalupe and the flower world prophecy how God prepared the Americas For conversion before the lady appeared. I'm gonna hand it over to Joe to talk about the prophecy itself Okay, cuz I know Joe and I our audience really want to know about that But I will say this you mentioned this idea of the it might have been fabricated and and God You know works in the way God does go look at the tumor Go go look at the research that's been done and the thing that's still there that shouldn't have been he shouldn't be there 500 years later I hate to sound get get all animated about it But sometimes I would like to say to atheists and Protestants by the way go look at the tilma go Hire your own scientists go in there go take a piece of that tilma and go and research it because the research has been done leave an aside that the Mind-blowing interpretation of the image itself and how it spoke directly to the indigenous people of Mexico Which we could get into later on if you want just the idea that the the pigment isn't even touching the cloth There's a separation that that it shouldn't exist those flowers the Castilian flowers. They're not part They're not from that part of Mexico all of it. You say yourself. It's still there You're welcome to go and take a look. I love a quick comment from you Then we'll hand it over to Joe to talk about the prophecy Well, actually that leads into what we're gonna be talking about because what we what you just said about the tilma and How incredible it is what we're saying is that that's actually just the tip of the iceberg and there's a massive Hundreds of miles that are beneath it and that's what this book is about and to kind of start from the beginning So we can bring people into what we're yeah, let me just quickly. Let me just quickly just comment on a larger network If you add our hypothesis to it, we see that there's a larger network of artistic ideas It's not only just the image of Guadalupe But it also deals with song and poetry and not only that you see the presentation of concept and ideas dealt in pottery shards, and so it was it was on pottery It's on murals. It's actually depicted in monuments So we're saying we're saying that all this preparation led the indigenous in one direction And that was to Christian conversion through the gua the film and of the Guadalupe event Which of course includes the tilma and and as part of the network. Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. No, go ahead Monique Please. Yeah, please. I want to I'm listening. I'm we always learn. Fascinated. Okay So as part of this larger network of ideas is the Guadalupe story itself Then narrative and that's what our book is centering in on was the narrative So starting from the beginning of the Guadalupe story when St. Juan Diego is ascending the tepiac Did you want to say something? Well, I think Joe wanted to directly no, no, that's okay Okay, okay, so at the very beginning of the Guadalupe story when St. Juan Diego is ascending tepiac hill He finds himself swept into a paradise or realm saturated With iridescent light coming from everything this beauty and this music he's surrounded by the music And he's so started by this he exclaims and this is an important line. It seems like a throwaway But it's not it's actually the beginning of something huge Where am I? Could I be in the place our ancestors spoke of the flower world paradise the land of heaven So with these very first words He's tying the guadalupe an encounter directly to an ancient indigenous belief system Of a solar and floral paradise a realm that matt that actually matches what he's experiencing and it's called flower world Right, and it's it's called flower world by ark by actually was coined by linguist Um, which spurred further investigation into archaeology So this flower world concept is is basically It saturated ancient mesoamerica and and that was a belief system of an afterlife Filled with music and beauty. Okay. So, um, what the time period that we're talking about Is around 1500 BC This would put it in the middle formative olement period the olement is considered the first civilization of the america's This is where you begin to see these concepts start to Uh begin to blossom if you want to say the the concept of amaze field or cornfield that's filled with beautiful birds And butterflies and butterflies and and plus it gives you sustenance This became the concept for this flower world paradise So in the nawat language, that was the language that was spoken between guadalupe and wandiego The term is in shochi plalpan tonaka talalpan. Okay. Try to remember that. We'll just keep referring to it as a flower world paradise Okay, so what what is happening is that this concept as we're saying it dates back to 1500 BC And we see it progress over the centuries Until growing and developing growing and developing eventually is reflected in the song poems that we're talking about So 1500 AD around the time when the when the astric culture and the and the spanish clashed We see about a 3000 year development of of concepts And just to kind of get to a point here is that in 1490 just a few Decades before guadalupe appeared in 1531 These poets got together and started these warrior kings came together And in between the bloodshed and the fighting Right and talked about this flower these flower song poems and one of the things that they came up with is that the flowers Mean the only truth on earth And eventually we see how it connects to the guadalupe story because wandiego gathers the only truth on earth in his tilma so Anyway, so uh, you want to talk about flower hypothesis anymore? Do you have any questions or anything? No, I just would I want to just kind of talk about because I didn't know that actually like Clearly god used this image And it resonated with the people and you're talking about how this has been going on for quite some time Talk a little bit about what was happening in that culture Um, there was human sacrifice. Uh, this is not my, you know Opinion, this isn't like me pointing fingers. This is just what was happening Uh mel gibson made a movie about it apocalypto. He you know, it kind of lays it all out. I don't know how accurate that is I'm not a historian, but I do know that took place and our lady of guadalupe Was an image of a person during that time? Clearly wandiego could relate to her. She was pregnant She wore and again. I'm not an expert. You are the expert. You tell me Her outfit was that of a person Uh in that culture talk a little bit about that because I think it paints the backdrop before the miracle takes place We talk about wandiego. Oh boy. Where can we go with this? Well, let me let me talk about human sacrifice just for a second. Okay. Um See Actually, we don't really talk about the tuma In fact, we we bring the tuma just just in reference to a couple of of things and then that may shock people There's a reason for that though and it's because in order to understand the tuma and the millions of conversions You have to understand the story and before you understand in order to understand the story You have to understand flower world. You have to know that there's a multitude of characteristics of this flower world system that is Showing in pretty much everything they did they were actually a very sophisticated society They had mandatory schooling For for quite a few centuries where they're forced to memorize these ancient song poems Did they have 57 genders like our society? Not at all. No, okay. So then they were more sophisticated than us. Just wanted to Absolutely You're such a troublemaker, Joe. You're such a troublemaker. You had to go there But it is tied in the soul concept of flower world that is woven into all of this even the flower world aspect in the human sacrifice Yeah, let me let me let me show you. Let me just show you quickly. So flower world, you know, as we say it's it's they should miss America man's yearning for this paradigm so afterlife, okay And eventually comes reflected in the song poems So the thing is is that This belief it was we make the case that it was really kind of manipulated by the by the elite It was actually became a justification for war and human sacrifice Which which I if I can input a quick little historical point The massive human sacrifice that everybody has heard about was not a normal part of their of their landscape until about 1450 Because the massive famines and plagues were starting to wipe off the population And so somebody stepped into that gap in the power gap And use the flower world belief system to kind of impose this these these actions. Yeah, let me let me just try to give you a quick overview In 1427. This is really 1427 1428. This is really the rise of the Aztec empire the so-called Aztec empire The immediately the Aztecs or better yet what they were called the misshika They started a process what they call the flower wars And it's based on the premise that I just gave you that essentially warriors who would die in battle that would spill blood Or if you were sacrificed it was like a win-win situation whether you want kind of the the losing end or the whatever If you died in battle, you would go turn into a hummingbird or a butterfly and you would go up to the flower will paradise So flower world concepts were playing in the background of the bloody sacrifice and just let you know in 1450 There was a big ramp of of of tens of thousands of sacrificial victims Set up set about by this one misshika leader named La Calal And like a Rasputin type care, right and it started ramped up really to a extreme degree in 1487 with the dedication Of the temple to the war god literally both leagues. So by the time you say about 80,000 people were sacrificed at that Yeah, 80,000. Yeah, so between 1487 and when the spanish first arrived in 1519 You see a huge uptick Thousands tens of thousands of sacrificial victims occurring during that time period so So anyway, so yeah, what do you do so so kind of what I was going to go through it? You know, we're seeing all of this human sacrifice, but the reason why he was able to uh, how do you say Get that many people to be sacrificed is because he's piggybacking off of a very essential point in the nawa Uh cultural lexicon, which is it's the idea that you cannot go to this flower world paradise If you were unworthy And in order to make yourself worthy plock out allow steps in and says the only way you can be made worthy is to the sacrifice of your blood But that wasn't how it started out The way it started out is actually at the heart of our book and if you could can jump into Right. Okay. The ancient song poem. Okay, so Which is there's this ancient song poem that exists. It's called the quikka pakayot And the translation of that is origin of the songs. It's the first of the songs And it's what influenced all other songs and within that story is a narrative of a singer who wants to Gather flowers in his telma from a from a place called shoshid lab bantana cut lap on the flower world paradise In order to bring it down to the princess. Did you want to right from that? So He want what the narrative that is that is set forth The singer wants to gather truth. Okay ultimate truth in his telma So he could show them to soam to the lords and princes. However, the way that the narrative go is that the singer doesn't actually find the flowers The singer is not allowed into this flower world paradise because he's full of sin. He's afflicted He's sinful and he's not worthy So he laments and he says I wish I could go to this flower world paradise And he says he speculates at the very end of the poem He says perhaps the far the god of far in near and the now-bought term for this is Nthlokka nawakka so you could try to remember that the god of far near nthlokka nawakka Only the god of far in near can make one worthy to enter the flower world paradise. Okay, so I'm just going if you put that story and all of a sudden we go into the guadalupe narrative The older song ends on the on the question of worthiness Right who can go to the flower world paradise and what is you worthy right? I can't go And the singer the the main protagonist in the earlier poem He is saying that he can't go as a representative of of his people Only nthlokka nawakka can make one worthy. We go into the guadalupe narrative. How does it open? Joseph. Yes, you're gonna hold that thought. I apologize. We have to take a quick break How does it open? That's what we're gonna pick up right on the other side of the break You're listening to the front line with joe and joe were so overjoyed To be joined by joseph julian gonzales and monique gonzales to discuss their new book out from sofia press Please buy it from the publisher guadalupe and the flower world prophecy how god prepares the americas war conversion before The lady appears stick around. We'll be right back Catholic radio works and now we have it here in konetica in new york It's been seen around the country that there's no better tool for evangelization Where there's catholic radio the folks who listen deep in their faith families are strengthened parishes and communities flourish So let people know you're listening to veritas tell your friends to tune in and let's make an impact here for jesus and his church This is steve lee for veritas catholic network Welcome back to the front line with joe and joe and joe everyone joe, piscillow joe We're sinello. We're way in the breach and the veritas catholic radio network We're discussing the new book out from sofia press guadalupe and the flower world prophecy How god prepared the americas for conversion before the lady appeared we're joined by the authors joseph julian gonzales and monique Gonzales so just five seconds joseph Let us let our audience know where you left off at the end of the at the end of the last segment and then pick it up from there Please right we were talking about the old older flower song poems Talking about who gets to go to the flower world paradise what makes one worthy and from there We we can now segue into the guadalupe narrative the narrative that everyone knows and loves So that's a summary of where we were so going into the guadalupe narrative So as the other other poem ends on worthiness when we go into the guadalupe story When when wondie ego comes into the into passes depia kill as manique was saying the first thing he says is He says where am I he actually actually his first words is Um, what is it that I hear am I worthy of what I hear? So he actually connects worthiness to being in this flower song poem and then of course as we said he says Could I be in the place that our ancient ancestors spoke of why would he say that unless he already had Knowledge of the flower world paradise and that it was connected with worthiness Yes, so he goes to this place and and he as a commoner as a humble commoner Was not supposed to be in the flower world paradise That was only reserved for the warriors and the and the sacrificial victims as we were talking about So it it's it's it's it's the background story. So we so when he comes in Uh, it would have it would have meant something to the the people who would have heard The guadalupe flower song is it the the story as it would have spread throughout meso america That guadal that excuse me wondie ego as a baptize christian Enter the flower world paradise. That's the difference And that's hugely significant because the ancient singers never Able to go into this flower world paradise because he wasn't worthy and that at the opening of the guadalupe account it starts with Juan Diego saying am I worthy to be in the flower world paradise? So it perfectly dovetails, right? And and now When we say this to people it sometimes blows people mind minds, okay, so In the earlier poem, it says only entlokanawake can make one worthy Okay, entlokanawake the god of far near wow when guadalupe addresses herself. Yes. Tell us about that So when guadalupe introduces who she is, of course She says I'm the mother of the one true god But the very next thing that she says is I'm the mother of entlokanawake The god of far and near the exact same god that's mentioned in this very first this very first poem These attribute of god and she says three other indigenous terms that are tying her to the ancestral traditions But the fact that she starts with that one is pretty mind-blowing because what it's saying in the indigenous mind That if in flokanaw the indigenous mind who hasn't converted yet if entlokanawake makes one worthy And guadalupe is the mother of entlokanawake and the priests are telling us that guadalupe is married who is the mother of jesus christ therefore In flokanawake is the is the one who's going to lead me in the flower world paradise and the only way to do that is through baptism right so The connection would be here is that jesus christ is is god is the one supreme god entlokanawake Now, I just to make clear entlokanawake is not a paganistic polytheistic term In fact the fransiscan friars themselves used entlokanawake In order to try to explain the christian god to the indigenous peoples We're not talking syncretism or anything like that right here We're just talking about the nawat term for for the one supreme god So the thing is is that we make the case that Because of the earlier song poem saying that only entlokanawake can make one worthy How does it work with jesus christ well jesus christ is the one by his sacrifice opens Up Makes it possible for anybody to get to heaven to have To to live with god for eternity So through his blood sacrifice is not not theirs That that it opens and erases this barrier between man and eternal life So we're making the case that um and we're making the case that it was through beauty It was actually through beauty and through the flower That jesus christ becomes the flower of truth Um, there's there's a lot of we're just giving thumbnails right now But this is just one aspect that we've been talking about flower paradise and the flowers There's many other Connections, but we believe that this is that this is the background story to the narrative And of course the tilma is Is a part of that narrative as a part of that narrative, but we're talking that it was it's tied into song poems It's tied into mural painting all this other stuff that we were talking about It's absolutely it's all absolutely fascinating. Joseph Julian Gonzales Monique Gonzales joining us here at the front line with joe and joe Please go out and buy their book wata lupa and the flower world prophecy how god prepared the america's for conversion Before the lady appeared. Um, let me hand it over to joe. We'll keep they will keep the conversation Absolutely mind-blowing i with joe and i've never heard this we focus i think rightfully because you know the tilma obviously is there We focus on the different aspects of the image that in and of themselves you would say to yourself Well, it ain't just a picture of a of a mestiza. Okay. Um, there's it's Oprah You mentioned joseph you mentioned music earlier something i found out recently that the stars are aligned on her on her on her over garment all right in in musical notes That when they're actually played and they're perfect on the on the cloth that that it creates the most beautiful like i never heard this before Leaving all that aside. We never heard of any of this and you want to know what though When you look how god has prepared other cultures in different ways. Okay How is any way if you if you have the catholic mind, which is the correct mind Um, if you have the catholic mind you say well, yeah, just like god prepared the greeks through philosophy Yes, we're at the indigenous people of of mexico through in a way that that they would listen to him So that's my long with iran joe resanello. Well, let's talk about the outcome 10 million people convert it's the one single christian conversion in the history of mankind that is significant Let's talk about that a little bit because ultimately, I think our world needs a conversion And if you listen to what you're saying God was sowing seeds while people weren't Basically seeing them they were being sown almost underneath the surface of every day life And then when our lady of guadalupe a pair appears to a very simple person It all clicks 10 million people convert human sacrifice stops Mexico is a bedrock catholic country The shrine of our lady of guadalupe is the second most visited church next to the vatican in the world I mean that can't be overestimated. I mean like that is like from From a culture that was wildly pagan To now a bedrock catholic country with the church that is visited by As many people as those who go to see st. peters Talk about that because ultimately I think just in general terms Our country in america is in need of conversion and i'll be honest with you joe and i are trying our best guys We are and have been through this radio station through other, you know forms of catechesis I always say our lady is the atomic bomb She is the atomic bomb that god sends to the world when the world needs it the most She showed up at fadema. She showed up in mexico. She showed up Many places throughout the world Talk about that a little bit because I think people need hope. I need hope because you can get soaked into All of the troubles that you see that it seems that every time we try to do something good Every time we're taking a step in the right direction It seems to disintegrate how we need our lady Talk about that because I think people need hope and I think she's america's only hope What I'm sorry. Absolutely okay. I'll start. Um What we are seeing Overall through what we call the guadalupe flower world prophecy is that the details matter That every single aspect of ideas that were implanted in meso american culture find fulfillment I'm just going to give a really quick example Part of the flower world prophecy is that the people who would go to flower world would go from West but they would follow the path of the sun from east to west. I'm just giving a quick little example What happens in the guadalupe story is that the first few times when wan diego talks to guadalupe He is going from he's seen she's in the east and he's looking at her from from the west Okay But on the very last day as you know when he's kind of sneak around her because of baronadino He actually goes to the east side of depiaquil And so when he actually go this is a key point when he goes up to the mountain He's approaching from the east to west direction in the same way that the older Nobility and leaders when they went and ascended up the hill to the flower world paradise He actually mimics it to the tea So the the point of all of this is that every single detail is met in order to try to bring the the pagan culture to to christianity and and it really is a reflection of our ladies love for people because he is constantly directing history And if he did it for 3000 years up to the 1500s, why is that not happening today? Why is in every single detail that's going on historically around us? Why aren't why isn't god planning something for his glory With preparing us preparing us in a in a in a certain way And we when it culminates when it climaxes with guadalupe Everybody knows about you know her tender words about where she says, you know, and we're not here who am your mother Right. I hold you in the in the folds of my mantle. We know that do not worry, you know here I'm taking care of you, but when we go into the the account she is using terms that are so tender She is using concepts that are so specific to wandiego at his age Because he would have he bridges the gap of he would have been trained in these earlier skills So not only did he know about the flower world paradise, but there's just a quick example He gives a he they our lady uses a term called in mixed in moiolo And what essentially what that means is my face and heart in the earlier school. That was a prominent uh Great for education because they face and heart meant your character They were trying to build the character and and it meant to do with your heart It meant to do with feel it in your heart Take what the words that i'm saying into this is the way they were taught And guadalupe when she say my dear son I know knowing your face in your heart the words that i'm saying She's using these words to specifically communicate to wandiego And and and to speak in his language and to use his concepts in order to pull him into her and eventually pull him into jesus christ so This is the way in which if you go to your mother right now In these difficult times, she's going to have all the answers She's going to lead you in the proper direction say your daily rosary Stay close to her because when you stay close to her you stay close to her son And and when she's saying that she's going to be speaking in terms that you individually Understand and the way that you god has created your mind your heart. We're all a little bit different mary and jesus If they've done it for the mess american people for three thousand years They sure as heck are going to do it for us in today's times and when all of this happened A lot of people may not put it in context Historically, but the Protestant Reformation was happening in the 1500s. So we have about Eight to ten million people that left the church during this time and right in the middle of this guadalupe is coming in And bringing that that same number of souls into the church. So as dark as it might seem to us today I really believe that god's doing something similar, you know He's he's preparing us for something moneek. I I think in my mind sometimes I've thought in the past that you know god sent our lady to mexico because like you said the reformation It just occurred anyone to make sure mexico became catholic and not Protestant Um before the before let's say the protest had started uh started sending out missionaries. I want to get down to a couple of um ABCs um because joe and i are big on the show with we don't like the misconceptions And i'm being charitable most of the time. They're outright lies our lady points us to jesus christ Yes, period end of story. Yes. Yes. Yes, just recently celebrated all saints day We prayed to the saints who are not dead. They are alive in heaven Okay, they're praying for us our lady points the first person who would tell you not to point to marry for your salvation Would be marry herself and would say no, no, it's him That's what the image and guadalupe she's pregnant The indigenous people saw it wasn't her. It was the baby. Go ahead moneek Oh, sorry. Just it. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to give you back I just wanted to piggyback off of what you're saying is The image that's directly over her womb I don't know if you've heard this part before but it's very specifically a four petaled flower And that four petal flower is at the center of this entire flower world belief system And maybe joseph can talk a little bit more about that But in this concept of the four petal flower Being an uh, uh, the the meeting point between heaven and earth and that's how it was treated Throughout meso american history. You want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, well just quickly. So we have this ancient concept of Of a flower. Okay. It specifically was it was it's related to this idea of access moon deed north south east and west Which is the center point reaches up to heaven. So what happened in meso america is at the four petal The the the four directions turned into four petals It it it means that through beauty you can reach ultimate beauty What uh fast forward ahead wandiego gathers these flowers of truth the direct connection to Divinity to ultimate truth and at which point to jesus christ and then in the image of course over her womb We get that same image again of the four petal flower. It's it's in the in the case of the telma It's it's like a two-dimensional because it's essentially on a flat surface But it's it's referring to a multi-dimensional reality A portal to that portal that that takes us into her womb, which of course connects us to ultimate reality and an ultimate truth But getting back to your initial question quickly the the What guadalupe has been unfortunately used as is evidence for syncretism People get this whole thing wrong. And I we just got to put a stop to it In the account herself. She's clearly is saying I'm sorry just for our audience just for our audience. Please very quickly before you keep going define syncretism Syncretism is When you take two different religions blend them together and come up with a third religion That has aspects of both please thank you joseph. Thank you joseph. Thank you. Okay, so It clearly guadalupe in the account She is saying I am the mother of the true god And she the first time she says that she says inely ine nansi inely Teos she makes it very clear. I'm sorry means I am the mother of the one true god and then it says it and she says it in nawat Deo and then she says it in spanish the yes, okay And then she uses all these different terms to clearly say that she in the nawat understanding that she is the mother of the one true god This is an important point because she is not saying i'm a goddess She's not saying i am tonan seen i'm not really that's a common misconception that people say they go oh well guadalupe She's a nasty goddess if she were to have done that that's the very definition of syncretism And unfortunately, this is a this is a narrative that's pushed Yes all through latin america And it's got to be stopped because if you believe that guadalupe is an Aztec goddess You're just one step away from this concept called santa moirte holy death Okay, I think you know about that where they actually are they're praying the narcos in mexico pray to this demon Let's just say what it is to give them success Right and it you know and there's other people who who believe this so it has to be made clear that she's not saying that the entire Narrative she never says that it is it's it's not syncretism. And I think one of the the the best Argument other arguments for this is that when the indigenous converted they made an authentic Christian conversion they took their idols they smashed them they burned them in front of the priest And these were idols that they had previously hid from the priest all of a sudden they pulled them out and said Oh, look what we have and we're gonna break it because we now understand why we need to do it There is no indication at all that syncretism was in the hearts of these converts They went out of their way to prove to the priest that they were giving a polygamy. They were giving up slavery They were giving them their properties. They were giving up properties. They were trying to make restitution to their slaves That they had once held so So they they're conversion Their desire for the flower world paradise was so strong that they were willing to give us Material comforts and material goods in order to reach that place It's absolutely fascinating. Joseph Julian Gonzalez Monique Gonzalez or with us at the front line with joe and joe Please go out and buy their book wide alupe and the flower world prophecy how god prepared the america's for conversion before the lady appeared joe We have a little bit of time. Where do you want to go? Talk a little bit about how our lady aguato will be to this very day You mentioned earlier in the first segment how in la in the different communities to the mexica Communities that people basically still the image is everywhere. It's similar in italian circles padre pio You go to italy he's everywhere Talk about how the the devotion is still very strong I mean because it clearly is not just in mexico But in all mexican communities throughout america Well, I think i'd hazard a guess it's not just in the mexican community. It's now throughout the united states I mean as people might know You know the hispanic population is the fastest growing population in the united states today So a proper understanding of our lady guadalupe is key because when kids go to university they're being told If you want to have a rational life, you need to let go of your faith You need to do it and they dismantle guadalupe It's the very first thing they do is they dismantle guadalupe Right. It's just a quickly at that point, you know, it's we've heard stories of people from mexico It's almost like the opening scene from god's not dead But hispanic style, you know and using guadalupe saying if you want if you believe in guadalupe Just leave up my classroom right now. Right. And so this is happening. We we've heard people tell their their individual stories And I think we've seen especially for some reason in the last five to ten years More and more people. I'm seeing europeans posting on our lady guadalupe I'm seeing people who have absolutely no cultural connection to related guadalupe Monique, let me ask you a question. I'm not from fadima, but i'm affected. I'm affected by fadima I'm not from mexico, but i'm affected by guadalupe. I'm not from japan Uh, but i'm affected by uh kita. I'm not from england. I'm affected by waltzing him The it starts in a small place But then as the message goes out It really god does that he radiates it out Christianity was founded in in a very small area of the world and then eventually took over the entire world So yeah, and it starts there. Yeah, but the the message goes, you know transcends time and space And that underlines the point of catholic. What does catholic mean? It means universal It's for all of us. It's not limited to any one people It's for the entire human race and and guadalupe is another example of that Exactly and I think right now in this time that we're going through these very difficult times not only the world But in the church is that prophecy and mary and apparitions seem to be On everybody seems to be thinking about them these days And I think that what we're providing in our book is that we're saying that This is how it was done in messo america This is this is the way that god did it And this is the way the conversions occurred and as we said if it wasn't it was it was not just happening there It's happening in our time right now. She's met today. Right through through all these the mary and apparitions Mary is trying to talk to us right now And trying to get us to repent trying to better the world trying to get us away from a possible chastisement So the thing is is that we we need to take these things seriously and and uh, you know We're making the case that it did happen in the past and it did it's a historical fact What happened? Of course the conversions leading the tilma everything else these are historical facts So we need to listen to her today. Let me ask you a question We have a we have a few minutes left joseph julian gonzales and monica and solace I want to just throw this out to you. You're both mexican. Okay. Um, obviously, you know, you you monica Are you mexican also uh quarter mexican half philippino. Okay. Um, but here's my thing religion the the the the the conversion of ten million people the subsequent as joe mentioned the bedrock Uh, uh, uh, religion of of mexico it was catholicism and some people might say well What's happening mexico now is just a natural waning of religious belief over time Um joe and i are not of that opinion joe and i are The infiltrations of the free masons in the 19th century. You the christeros war Uh, you mentioned the narcos you mentioned the cartels you mentioned santam where to It is a direct attempt a deliberate attempt to return to its pagan roots and the way you do that is You got to get at the church. I'd love both your comments in the last three minutes that we have Uh, I would say to that you're absolutely right the cristero wars when the mexico Was trying to wipe out catholicism in the early 19 20s. The president of mexico president gaias was a 33 degree mason He was very verity anti catholic We believe that what what they weren't able to do by trying to wipe in them out physically through war It entered academia And you could see anti catholicism all over mexico city We've been there several times. We know a lot of uh mexican of the parts of the intelligentsia It also The front line though is guadalupe and here's why we say that. Yeah, yeah Because because we're talking about the world being a pagan culture that's essentially what we're saying we're living in pagan cultures I think that's part of the reason why guadalupe is very popular even with people who aren't religious because they're assuming that she's a wonderful uh image of something that's not christian a lot of people are trying to turn it that Turn it in that direction when we're here to bring it back to center and saying no, that's not the case Our lady guadalupe there is is there to pull you away from the pagan world and she shows She could show you how she is that bridge of understanding that can help resolve a lot of these questions and issues Yeah, but it gets all mushed together and and it's done purposely. It's part of the plan But joseph, that's why we are here at the front line with joe and joe. That's why you wrote your book Guadalupe in the flower world prophecy of god prepared the america's for conversion before the lady because we're here to Unfog all that. Okay, we're here to un-mush All that to put it in north new jersey terms like joe and joe and i do we're un-mushing all that No, no, no, we're not defending Guadalupe. We're attacking what you're doing All right, because what you're doing is letting us we have about a minute left joseph money tell our audience where they could follow you More where they could buy the book anything any place where they could learn more about what you guys got going on Well guadalupe in the flower where prophecy is being sold on saffia institute press It's coming out november 21st, but you can also find it on amazon Barnes and noble and multiple other platforms. We are also are starting a website www.guadalupe flower world dot Prophecy flower world prophecy dot common you can find us on twitter facebook and a whole bunch of other Yeah, just put our names in you'll find us All right, and awesome and and what we'll do is we'll make sure we blast this out this Joe and i both know i mean we're a couple of fast-talking Italians from new jersey man We we could talk a long time. We know we could talk to you for hours about this Um and needless to say you're stuck now. You're part of the family You're not going anywhere and you have to come back anytime we ask you to so we can see any time So, uh, so yeah, we thank you so much for coming like I said, it's been an absolute pleasure We we're gonna but joe and i are both gonna make sure we get the book and encourage all of our audience members to get the book So thank you both so very much. Thank you very much. It's been wonderful meeting you And it's great. God bless you. Thank you all out there for joining us here at the veritas catholic radio network 1350 on your am dial 103.9 on your fm dial Spreading the truth of the catholic faith in the new york city metropolitan area Make sure you download the app the veritas app share it with your friends You'll have access to all of our stations content and wherever you see joe and i On social media. We're primarily trying to build up our rumble presence, which is going very well And twitter which is not going so very well. So get over to twitter and follow us on twitter Before youtube and facebook take us down and we know that they will like subscribe share do all that fun stuff Thanks once again and remember until the next time that our conversation is your conversation and that conversation is going on everywhere We'll talk to you soon (dramatic music)
