The Lawman's Lounge

Expert in Marker Expansion: Leadership in Membership Sales at Law Tigers with Dave Thomas

This week on The Lawman’s Lounge, we’re getting granular with grassroots marketing and community impact! 🎙️✨ Our guest, Dave Thomas, breaks down how their approach mirrors pharmaceutical sales strategies, with a focus on relationship-building in unique spaces like motorcycle dealerships 🏍️, rallies 🎪, and even children’s hospitals 🏥.

From co-sponsored events to ride-alongs, they show how being present in the community creates trust 🤝 and lasting connections. The mantra? Keep people first, and they’ll keep you first.

If you’re ready to rethink your grassroots strategy and learn how to make a real impact, this episode is packed with actionable insights you won’t want to miss! 🎧🔥

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-lawman-s-lounge--4267400/support.

Duration:: 37m
Broadcast on:: 30 Dec 2024
Audio Format:: other

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You're listening to The Law Man's Lounge, a podcast dedicated to help you take back and control of your life and your business. Here's your host, Bill, The Law Man, Jumanzki. Hey, welcome to another additional Law Man's Lounge. Year 5, season 5, episode 43, or whatever I have no idea. What episode is it, Chuck? I think we're up there. We're like 28 or so. Yeah, I was a sound quality. I'm sitting in my car. I just had a vegan sandwich, which funny. After last night's election, I don't feel so -- I don't know why I just didn't get just like a steak or something. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I had a vegan sandwich with like fake beef. That's interesting. I didn't know McDonald's gave that a vegan. It definitely wasn't McDonald's. So, though, I did eat McDonald's last night. I had a -- I did have a hamburger last night. I had a double last night, actually, at McDonald's. It's amazing how relatively thin I am considering eating McDonald's at least once a week. But I just eat the burger, no soda, no fries, Jeff. I'm not like you, but you're the one that got me into this protein kick. I got to get protein wherever I can get it. Unfortunately, McDonald's is a quick shitty protein, but -- Hey, protein on this. Yeah, I'm not quite sure if that's protein or not, man. Oh, and there's a voice that just came on, Jeff. You know, we met him while back, like, he comes on the stage and does -- you know, I used to speak before COVID. I got to get back on the stage, and he's a rather tall fella. He's a protein. He's a tiger, like tiger. You know, baby. We eat raw meat, man. That's the best protein. That's right. He's actually the law tiger, or represents the law tiger, depending upon who you ask at any give-and-take. But his presentation was really good. He did a great job speaking, gave a lot of value. I forget what conference we're at. What conference were we at? What conference? Yeah, I don't remember. I don't -- I'm 50. Go ahead and go out. Yeah. Great conference. I want to be on Chris's podcast, I think, next week, so looking forward to that. But great conference. You were a great speaker. We talked to you about your law tigers. I want you to tell a little bit of our audience about that stuff. The guy who owns it's a lawyer. So tell us a little bit about law tiger, a little bit about yourself. Yeah. You can talk about your MBA. Notice that you finished top of your class. Was your professor scared of you, or you just happened to be that bright, which I find you. Hey, hey, man. They said bald guys are the smart guys. Keep the bald guy on your team. Hey, man. I'm Dave Thomas with Law Tigers. I'm currently serving as the senior vice president of business development and growth. I've been doing this for about seven years. And those of you guys not familiar with law tigers, law tigers, we're a legal marketing firm that specializes just in motorcyclic cases. And many of us, a majority of us, are writers ourselves. So we don't really focus on the accidents, you know, taking advantage of someone's shortcomings. We actually, it's a lifestyle play for us. I guess that's what I'm trying to say here. So you don't see us in the trenches, man. We're, you know, we have market managers like 45 of them across the country who specifically are aligned to the motorcycle community, man. Like they're at Holly Davis in dealerships, you know, Honda, Indian parts stores, tow companies, man. They're pretty much Greek and street evangelists in the community, you know, around law tigers. And so that's also coupled with traditional advertisement. We do that obviously as well, you know, with digital billboard boards and, you know, radio and so we market. And that's not least, we also do a digital marketing as well, man. So we do everything under the digital umbrella. SELPPC. So synergistically, those three strategies that I just mentioned, that's how we're able to generate these cases for our participating firms. And I'm not sure if you guys know we're in 33 states, 47 markets. So, man, we're pretty large footprint and the largest national motorcycle marketing brand in the country. Yeah, that's really cool. I, you know, when we talk to you and who is the principal, what's his name? Nice guy. Yeah, Ari Loveenbaum. You've already given us that. Yeah. Yeah. So Ari was a fascinating, nice guy. You kind of rolled out your program to us and it was really cool. We got to understand it. You know, what it looks like, I mean, Ari is a lawyer and he's got his own law firm, but law tigers has got a separate from that, right? And works as kind of like a marketing agency, but is really into that niche market. And if you're looking to get into that, like, if you're a writing enthusiast, if you like that kind of stuff, you guys put out the whole program for the lawyer. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because, you know, before we get into grassroots marketing, the reason why I brought you on is not to pitch you necessarily, but it is a do it all thing, which is not that common in the space. Like, you do everything for the person. So I'd like you just to, you know, tell our audience for those that might be interested in opening a motorcycle injury practice, kind of what you do for them. Not just you broke it down, but a little bit more specific. Yeah, absolutely, man. So, you know, you know, we, like I said, we partner with firms all over the country and, you know, the value that they see in us is the ability to a diversify their practice, right? They have the general practice and it may be, you know, going on, going along very exceptionally well, but they bring us in as a companion brand to kind of do the blocking and tackling for them, so to speak, since we're in football season. And so what we're able to do for them is diversify their practice with a hell of a niche involving motorcycle accidents. Unfortunately, there's so many of them across the country. Just in your market alone in Orlando, there's over 2,700 injuries and fatalities annually. And in fact, the whole state of Florida, there's over 10,000 injuries and fatalities annually. So, you know, we're strategically designed our marketing team to go in there and generate a fair percentage of the market share. What we do for for firms, once again, we plug and play our program within their existing firm and they're able to actually gain credibility within the motorcycle marketing community or, excuse me, riding community, we hire that market manager that I mentioned earlier. That is the glue of our program. He or she has to be a writer. They're the face of your program. And once again, they're going out there winning France and influencing people. And then, like I said, it's backed by a high power traditional and digital marketing strategy as well. You said that, David, let's get a little more granular so that they, instead of generally talking about that, what that market manager does. And then the digital and the other piece to it because I'd like to hear more granular. I know. Yeah. One hundred percent. So I've got three folks very similar to a form of single sales reps in health care arena, right? They're calling all hospitals. So once again, we're in the dealerships. We're providing product, right? We're supporting ride-alones. We also do co-sponsored tents at different rallies. We also partner outside of motorcycle arena, even with Children's Hospital. Anything involving the community, that's where we want to be. We know that once again, like I mentioned in my presentation at PimentCon, if you keep people first, they'll keep you first. So that's a big huge push. That's what we're known for is our grassroots component. And so we do these shows across the country with the largest sponsor at Daytona and Sturgis annually every year. We're a really big promoter out there. People view us as one of them, not just a person that's once again trying to capitalize on their shortcomings. Because I feel that a lot of firms across the country, they get that wrong. They want access to these cases, but then they photoshopped themselves on the bike. I guess you can call those folks' posers. But for us, remember the real deal? Again, we're all about rider education, awareness. We partner with riding schools, where you learn how to ride a bike and get your license. Anything involving riders, we're there. And so they're the component when you look at traditional. We're very strategic and a traditional strategy. So obviously we do the billboards, radio spots, things of that nature. But we also have strategic partnerships with local sports teams, where we give away bikes. We've given away already 10 plus bikes this year. And we do that in partnership with different hockey teams and different sports teams in collaboration. And last but not least, digital. We're in a digital world, man. So we also have video auditors on staff. We have content specialists. We have folks that manage your social platforms. So I guess what I'm saying here, man, this is a well-comprehensor program. But we live in those three buckets that I mentioned, and we're able to go in and execute at a very high level. And that's why simply our partners love us. And we're growing like a wildfire, so to speak. Yeah. And I think what's interesting is that it's the marketing manager that makes that all go. And I think you guys are the ones that are hiring that person, right? Yeah, we do all the hiring for that. And in fact, once again, we're so, so, so evolved in this area. We have regional directors across the country that these market managers are important to. Our regional directors are important to our VP of operations. Now, now, so we go into the market with our market managers. We also have an amazing summit for market managers each year. In fact, last year was just in Wisconsin at the Harley-Davidson, the first ever Zemecka, the home of Harley-Davidson, right? In Wisconsin, where we flower our market managers in and we work on just getting better in sales, getting better just in our relationship buildings. So once again, it's a very accountability, results driven process. Again, everything is about the lifestyle and what we do. We live it, breathe it, and we love it. Yeah, when you were saying a poser, I was just thinking, Jeff, should get my, I got a little scooter. I used to ride around when I had my Achilles surgery, and I was thinking, maybe we should take a picture on that with me in a helmet. What do you think that'll go for the law Tigers? Hey, man, it may, you know, sometimes negative press is good press, man. So sometimes you got to do some off the wall shit. That's not accurate. You never know, man. You may go viral for the wrong reason that is. Well, I don't think you'd be a poser for doing that because that's like, that's pretty authentic of Bill. Oh, really? Yeah, we get like a real clip of that next time. So we should take a clip of this podcast and just have me on my scooter. Have Jen just do that. We'll use that for advertising. So let's talk about the grassroots marketing, because obviously you're doing niche marketing. And I was fascinated about the grassroots aspect of the marketing manager and what are the specific events. So like she'll go into bike stores and try to develop a relationship. But, you know, how long does it take for a new marketing manager? Let's say, for example, you've been a market. The guy doesn't want the product anymore. You're out of a market for five years or three years and you come back into the market with a brand new marketing manager. How fast can they establish those relationships? And what are you looking for in a marketing manager specifically? Is there a disc score you score on them or? Yeah, so tell us about that. I'm glad you brought that up. So there's a couple of questions there and I'll try to answer them in sequence here. Well, you know, what we look for in a market manager, we look for a person that obviously has to be a writer, but also to have existing relationships in the community that we're going to launch law tigers. We're very effective in fighting. You know, there's no secret that this job is kind of like a dream job for those writing enthusiasts, right? Because they actually, it's like playing basketball football or something like that. They actually do get paid, you know, to do what they love. And how many people get an opportunity to do that, man? And so, so we don't have a hard time filling these positions, but we do scrutinize it a little bit and you talk about a disc score. So we do have personality tests that we that we've incorporated with our selection process. We know that this is the glue of our program. So we don't take it lightly. We involve our partnership firm, right? It's all inclusive, but we do the heavy lifting. We'll cast our net wide nationally and hopefully we can find someone locally because that's our aim. But when you look at when you look at the role, though, I mean, there's some tangibles there that a lot of folks, they have this perception of these riders, right? Because they feel that they just have a bunch of tattoos and not there. Now that that's smart and educated, but you'll be Rome and riders come from all walks of life. They, you know, different backgrounds, education, you know, and so these these market managers, they're just they just very talented, right? They ride, but they're also very gifted when it comes to, you know, you know, creating these meaningful connections and authentic relationships. But we also train them. You know, we have an all-time university where we just don't throw people out there and say, "Hey, man, let's just hope that this spaghetti will stick on the wall." We make sure that we, you know, we're putting in that a professional development with all of our people. And it's something that's ongoing yearly, you know, and so, but that's how they're able to go in and really make, you know, an effective change in the community. That's your other question there. And how soon, you know, what is the timeline on that? Well, I'll tell you this, you know, what allows us to kind of go into a market and start generating cases, you know, immediately. It's because, you know, we're the Starbucks of motorcycle cases, right? There's a bunch of mom postops in every state across the country. And guess what? People resonate with them and they love it. But when Starbucks breaks ground, it's like Chick-fil-A or in and out, man. That line is around the freaking corner because that's what we do. They know we are the specialists. We're the best at it. And so when we break ground, it's like they've been waiting for us. They've been waiting for not our coffee man. They waiting for our experience and our love for riders and our commitment to the community. So that's the differentiator that allows us to go ahead and break ground and start, you know, generate these cases in such a quick manner. Ranked number one in innovation, 10 consecutive years. Arizona State University isn't just ahead of the curve. It's creating new paths to success. Learn from notable clinical and research faculty. Online, that's a degree better. Explore programs at asuonline.asu.edu. That's the goal. And I know some guys that who listen to our podcast that might be interested in your thing and I'm not getting paid anything or get a percentage of anything. I should've asked, but you'll never let me know if one of my listeners comes to reach out to you. I mean, let's face it. But I know some of our listeners are hardcore motorcycle enthusiasts. And, you know, let's say they couldn't afford your program. You had talked to PIMCOM about some of the grassroots stuff. So tell us what you think that let's say someone's starting out in this field who doesn't have the capital. What are some of the things they can do? Because you'll be open about that on PIMCOM. And give them a list of what they can do just to generate some ideas for our audience. Great question, man. And I love this because many firms, you know, you have your small, your sole practitioners or maybe even small, the mid-sized firms, they'll say, well, Dave, man, we don't have the infrastructure. We don't have the manpower to go out and execute on these strategies. And my immediate response is, I think you're short chasing yourself. And what I mean by that is, is, you know, if you have staff, that is your resource, right? These are part of your team. And I talk about this around the country, man, incorporating your team in your community relations. In fact, have this as part of your KPIs for your team. If your team are running around your office without KPIs and short chasing yourself, right? Everybody should have goals and be held accountable. And part of your accountability should be to be in alignment and proper. So I call it proper engagement in alignment with your core values as a firm or as a company, right? And so challenge your team members to be a part of that. And you can have rewards around it. You can give out prizes on who have gone to the most events in town or you have the biggest outcome. So that's what we do here at Law Tigers as well. Not only we have our wonderful mixed marketing strategy, but we're even held accountable. Independently, to go to two community events on your own, but also we do it as a team. What we collectively, we kind of use that as like a team building at a time. So no matter if it's with, you know, Special Olympics or our feed started in children, all of that stuff right there, man, is your building relationships and people see you in the community for the right reasons. That's going to overflow, right? And to your reputation, your brand awareness and brand recognition in your community. And so now you're getting out in front of these these accidents. So when accidents happen and they have to choose, you know, between you and Joe. Well, they've seen you. They've seen your work. They see your commitment. And so they're going to choose you. So, so I say, you know, to the firms out there that may not be able to afford a program. Take advantage of the low-hand your fruit, man. You got to get from behind your your laptop and your desk to do that, though. Roll up your sleeves, get in the trenches, find out what's important to your community and stand behind it. Even your little league teams that you say no to for 500 and 1000 and say, Hey, I mean, I only get, I mean, I'm getting cases from that. But what if you get one or two? What if it's a huge case? Then that's the best 500 or 1000 that you've, that you've, that you've, you know, pledged to a little league team. And besides that, man, you're doing the right thing. You're making the difference. You're a brand that you don't have back fence, right? So you're talking about this for days. I'm pretty passionate about it, too. Yeah, I didn't, you know, even, you know, dude, that's right. And even with our firm, we do so much community events. But you don't even like, you may give one thing a thousand dollars and you may give another one like $200. I mean, the important thing is, is that when you're giving that you try to explain what it is you're doing to help them and you're authentic about it. So for example, you know, we had someone, an ex-employee that asked for a basket that she was going to auction off to help her pop Warner football team. And there are big companies that gave her like 200, 300, 400 dollars. We, you know, it was just to help an ex-employee out. We did like 150. But what we did is we prepared the basket. We did everything, got it in together. And then she did really sweet things. She gave a testimony about our firm. It's because she knew that we cared, but we were authentic. We're like, look, we got so many requests for different things and we got to do this and that just gave something. So like, even in the scenario with the baseball team, you mentioned, you know, big, big dogs, like you, $500,000, not a lot of money. To me, it is a lot of money, but I've done it. I've given that before. But if I couldn't, and I was just sitting there because I've either a lot of requests, just do something, like give them $150 or $200. But explain what it's for. Your name may not go on the back to the shirt, but you're giving it to a person that's going to be your cheater anyway. So, you know, maybe $1,000 goes on their shirts and that's better. But even $200 at the right person can go a long way because you're helping out someone that needs help and you're giving where no one else is giving. So there's always a reason to donate, whether it's $10, $20, $1,000 or $1,000 or more. Obviously, the more you donate, the more giving you do tends to tends to come back the same way, but there's never a reason not to give to just try to start a relationship and help other people out. And that's a really good point that you made about that. There's not an excuse not to. Right, man. And you're also, you know, you're building your brand, man, and your brand is what other people are saying about you when you're not no longer in the room. Well, right. So, I don't mean you're helping out teams, you're taking advantage of low hanging fruit, man, but you're also telling your story. I talk about this stage all the time, man. If you don't take your story, then somebody else will. And we know how competitive the landscape and the legal field is, man. Let's, you know, listen, be real about it. Most firms don't say a lot of nice things about each other. So, so how do you clear that up? How do you clear up your misrepresentation by being there? Now, now they say anything negative about you. They're going to say, I disagree because, hey, I see the law, man, I see what they're doing. They're in the community. All right. So, you're me, right. And I play on a hockey team. Okay. A lot of my guys on my hockey team are like, man, you got to get, you got to get to build a sponsor of jerseys, man, you got to get them to sponsor our jerseys. Let's have this guy offer now in real time. Okay, I want you to sell the on putting Diamanski on our hockey jerseys because that, you know, for one, it helps us out because we don't have to pay for the jerseys. I have to put you a laugh. You may ask a law firm on the jerseys. I want, I want to hold time for our audience to see how this works. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm meeting with the hockey team, right? So I'm basically influencing them to partner with us and to allow us to put our name on their jerseys. Is that correct? Yep. Okay. Great. So, hey, I'm Dave with Law Tigers and, you know, we're huge fans of you guys. And what we do a lot in the community and we do a lot of co-sponsorship and partnership with teams. And local businesses in the community. In fact, that is the major way of how we support our community is there being a true partner. And we noticed that you don't have a partner and we wanted to present an opportunity that we can go into a co-sponsorship partnership with your hockey team. And so, you know, first, first of all, I want to find out what's important to you and what is your commitment to the community. Hopefully they'll say Dave something like this, Dave, man. First of all, man, thanks for reaching out to us. And, you know, what we love the community. In fact, we wouldn't be a team if we didn't have fans that, you know, set their butt in the seats that rooted us on. So we're very much into the community. I said, well, awesome, man. It seems like we agree on something off the bat. Well, you know, what we like to do is, you know, pit our names, you know, some patch on your jersey and, you know, and work out some, some other partnership opportunities where we can also do some shared social strategy marketing techniques as well. But also do a lot of co-sponsor events and tandem with your hockey team. Would that be something you'd be interested in? Hopefully their response is like, tell me more. And then what I would do is walk them down on where the value, right, because everybody wants to see a value proposition. I think the value of partnering with my law firm, a law Tigers law firm is that the added exposure, but also not just the exposure, but the commitment of self-minded scenes, along with my law firm, that we can go out in the community and show unity for the right reason. And we both benefit from, from, you know, a brand awareness, brand exposure, and ultimately brand dominance, because let's just be real. They have an excellent hockey team in place, but they also depend on growing and selling their brand. And, you know, we can help each other out with these efforts. Are you saying that? Well, you know, it's interesting. It's funny. He's been on this hockey team for three years, Dave. He's never asked me. And then, and if he ever did ask me what I would say is, sure, we'll do it. And then we'll show up in the games, but he doesn't want us to show up the games. What he wants is, for us to put our name on the shirts, not show up, not being present, not taking extra video of his, of his like falling down when he's scared or his team losing the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Because for me, for me, Dave, let me ask you about that, bro, real time. The cool thing would be sponsoring the shirts and then sending our team to watch them play, shoot video, we're supporting a team member of our firm, we're rooting them on. And we want it involved, and then we're getting bang for a buck, because we're rooting him on in the community, and this is not like it. There's a bunch of dudes that really don't have any community cause they're just dudes that play hockey. So we would like, well, pay your shirts and put our name on the team, and we'll show up and we'll route you on and we'll shoot, play your content. But no, no, no, no, no, he just wants so he just wants. So if I came to you, I'll pay for your shirts. I mean, if you came to me, I'll pay for your shirts. Like, yeah, I mean, you were talking about a partnership. This, the proposal that I'm hearing from the other guy, but as the other host is a one way thing like pay for my fucking shirts, and then don't even show up for the beer and don't bring anyone. No, please don't show my games. I think I think I think you would be a deranged lunatic if you pay for someone certain wasn't present, and then, and then give them the offerings that you do well. I think that's not only necessary, but it's it's it's unspoken. When you get that part of the pitch, I just get to be the part of the pitch of what we can do. Then we get into the granulars of everything that comes along with partner with law tigers. Sure, I'm sold, man. Yeah, I want to put a little tiger on my, you know, my chest or my buttocks, and then ride that scooter. I'm gonna take long tigers. We're gonna get into partnerships tomorrow, Dave. I'm wearing a lot of tigers on my, my forehead, getting it tight, and then I'm going to be scooting up on my scooter. I gotta get you some leather chops, man. And I know some good tattoo writers, man. We're full of tattoos, man. I'm gonna get somebody to get that left butt cheek and brand you, man. Nice, Dave, you better have a tattoo of law tigers now. I'm branded, man, as we have brands. So, so one of the things that our partnership we brand, we always brand our partners, man. It's for life, baby. It's the yellow stone thing, you just stamp them, you know. And a law man meets the law tiger. And then the loss. And then, of course, there's scooter man, but that's different. But, yeah. I mean, niches, you know, it's funny is you were talking about niche Mark and before he came on and niches make riches, right? So, you know, maybe you can even dial it down to representing, like, Honda owners. It's too specific. But, you know, anytime you find a niche, you know, but they get caught up in what a niche is, man. But, you know, for legal services, you know, the challenge is a lot of storms, you know, they become the jack of all trades, the jack of all legal services. And then so you're not you're the expert or none. And, you know, we know that people, man, they, they want to do, you know, business with people they like and trust. And the one way to secure that type of trust is knowing that you're the expert that you're the person that they should call on at the time of need. And so that's our automatically built into a niche. So I say, free one, whether you're a motor circle rider, or maybe it's just a population, man, you know, that you serve that they know that you're, you're really, you know, tied to the community. It's just a smart way of doing business, then cashier and that too broad. And now you're taking whatever comes in the door, then, and then they're crying about their, their fees, right? They're kind about their average fees. See, most firms, the reason why they can't, they can't, you know, partner with, you know, I want to use law tigers, but anything in partnership because they can't get out of the way of their own ego, right? And let's just be honest, man. Some lawyers have some of the greatest egos in the world next to doctors, right? But, but if you realize that you can get out of the way of your ego and understand that you can go further together. And then you can also have another brand to do the blocking and tackling for you. That's just smart business. They deal with Nike and Aaron Jordan all the time, man. Nike, my sons wear those donks, they wear Jordan's. Guess what? It supports the same bottom line. It's just smart way of doing business. But no, man, you get these attorneys, man, they're like, man, X and Y firms. You want to build ore, man, I've got my arms crossed, I'm standing on trucks and shit. And my name is the reason why they're doing business, but they're wrong. You're getting a part of the market share, but you can get more by diversifying and bringing in co-brand. Absolutely. I get excited about this, dude. I told you, man, I'm not moving back, brother. No, absolutely. That's why firms like Morgan and Morgan are able to buy out firms. Guys that don't have an ego will, will just sell their firms to them and continue to work there or move on. But a lot of times they'll continue to work and they'll work under the umbrella as an employee, but they're still branding their own names and their own firms. That's what it used to do in the past. I don't think it still does it anymore. I'm not sure about support that, man. That's like a common firm. That's different, man. That's selling your soul, but not the market. Morgan, but you know what I'm saying? It's like, hey, you want to be your own man, but just bring in a partnership to give you additional access to a market and to generate additional markets here. I think that's a smart way to do business. Hey, maybe you sell your soul. Maybe you don't. I think it just depends on the person, but the important thing is you got to put down your ego. So I mean, even if someone's trying to sell their soul, that's what you think. I still got to put down their ego. And it's amazing how many people can't do that even for money. So, but yeah, I do. I love the idea. And I, you know, it's funny. I do think I can see where you have some of these lawyers that will just not take on law tiger because they're afraid that if it doesn't work out with law tiger, their name gets swallowed up. But that's not the truth. You can, you can continue to brand yourself and use law tigers as a co-brand and still make your relationships with people. But at the end of the day, you know, people are doing business with people now from a digital perspective, billboard perspective, you know, you know, they can come to you if they know you, but ultimately, and that kind of grassroots business. Yeah, the real thing. I got a question for you, though. I'm sure you've had situations. You've got you train up these marketing managers. And I'm sure you've had firms sat there and said, because there's always about this in business. Hey, we want to run our own program now and we want to take our marketing manager. Have you ever had that come up and how do you deal with that? Great question. We haven't had that come up because, I mean, the truth of the matter is. Really? Yeah, we have it because the power we're bringing in a companion brand, the value of bringing companion brand is exclusivity, but also separateness from your current brand. See, once you bring everything on your umbrella, and this is being clear. Some people are going to love Dave Thomas for who I am, my background, you know, whatever. And some people going to love you for the same reason, but some people are not going to like you for certain reasons. Right. The nice thing about bringing a companion brand is and meet people. It meets people exactly where they're at, stressing law tigers. That's why there's no no no human being on our logo. It's the tiger represent loyalty. We watch over our own. So people resonate with this. What we call iconic branding. I kind of branding is like a mascot for my team. I mean, this is some brilliant shit, man. I'm sorry to to her on the horn, but, but, you know, I get, I give all props to the 11 bombs for doing this, but, but are his dad Warren 11 bomb. He practiced for 30 years as the defense attorney, working his ass off. And then he had an epiphany because he was a long time writer and he would take these, these rides from wind therapy. And he automatically occurred to him that he has a built in network. That trust him already because there are riders. And when he came to design his brand for his company, he knew that he didn't want to get his own ass on the, on the, on the brand. He knew that it would be an iconic brand that people would resonate with. And that's, and that's just brilliant, man. So even if you don't do law tigers come up with a co-brand that people can identify with you outside of yourself, because they're going to be some folks is just biased because you're you and your background, your religion, your belief. You know, who you are, African American, whatever is Jewish, right? Everybody's not going to support shit. But you get your iconic brand man, like Starbucks, right? People fall in love with it. They fall in love with the experience. It's a lifestyle for them. They don't give a shit who you are where you come from. Yeah, I love that. That's some gold right there about the co-brand. I got, I got one that I purchased. I can't tell you the trademark spending, but the co-brand is good because it takes away the person out of it. And if you don't know who's running it, you just, if you like the brand enough, you just go to the brand. So, yeah, it's definitely something to consider again for people that are out there. Like, don't, you know, exactly. People might not like you because you're white or bald or have glasses or wear a funky shirt or six foot six or six foot eight. Your name sounds like Dave Thomas, the Wendy's guy. But if you got the law tiger. So, I think, you know, our time is coming up. I, you know, I really enjoyed this day. I really enjoyed having you on. Tell us how people can kind of reach you if they're interested in the program that you can offer and thank you for your insights. That last one was a good one. If you were listening out there, guys, co-branding, like, you know, whether you could form law tigers or not, find another brand that's beyond your name. And so that, you know, there's a lot less people are going to judge you. But anyway, tell us how people can contact you and they want to listen to you speak or get some more information from you because I know that, you know, you do a lot of speaking from the stages and give a lot of value. So, whether people can do business with you or not, how would they get in touch with you? Yeah, thanks for the platform, man. And once again, meeting you guys, it was just a pleasure. So, happy to be on your podcast, but you can reach me at Dave, D-A-V-E, at LawTigers.com. Check us out on the website at LawTigersMarketing.com. That's LawTigersMarketing.com. And Dave at LawTigers.com, man. And I look forward to hearing from you. Whether you're interested in law tigers or not, if you want to learn more about how to diversify your practice, really capitalize on niche marketing grassroots. I'm open for it, man. I'm game to just have these discussions. This is what I do. This is what I love. And, you know, once again, thanks again for the opportunity. You're welcome, Dave. Well, thanks for listening. The Lawman wants to hear from you. So, if you have any questions, give them a shout-out. Follow them on Instagram at Bill's Lawman. You can also visit the website at www.thelawman.net and on YouTube at Bill the Lawman Eumanski. And they'll be placed there where you can ask questions. And if you have any questions about your business or anything, just hit them up and we'll try to get an answer to you. We try to bring the best advice that we possibly can. And if you thought it was good, talk to your friends and we'll see you next week.