Today on this holiday replay of episode 467 of the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast, I'm speaking with climate scientist, writer, and backcountry skier, Anneka Williams.
Welcome to episode 466 with climate scientist, writer, and backcountry skier, Anneka Williams.. Brought to you this week by Alabama Beaches and Roam Generation PR.
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Brought to you this week by Alabama Beaches and Roam Generation PR
Show Notes
Most of us dream of grand adventures, but everyday responsibilities seem to pull us away. We settle for the occasional weekend hike or a vacation once a year while longing for something more thrilling and purposeful.
- You want to explore more of the world but feel tied down by routine.
- You crave adventure and meaningful experiences but aren’t sure how to make them a consistent part of your life.
- You see others doing incredible things, like skiing the Himalayas or conducting research in the Arctic, and wonder, "Why not me?"
We understand. Society has made you believe that real adventures are a rare luxury or only for a chosen few. But it’s not your fault—no one told you it’s possible to live a life full of exploration.
That’s why this episode with Anneka Williams, a climate scientist and adventurer, is so inspiring. In this conversation, you’ll learn how she crafted a life full of global adventures, from skiing down icy peaks in Patagonia to studying climate change in the most remote corners of the world.
Anneka’s story will take you beyond the typical vacation. Imagine skiing as a child on the single-chair lift at Mad River Glen in Vermont, then fast-forward to skiing in Bhutan or studying gas emissions in the high-altitude Paramo of South America. This episode will show you that the world is a wild, beautiful place waiting to be explored—and you don’t need to wait until retirement to do it.
Here are three inspiring lessons from Anneka’s adventurous life that you can apply to your own journey:
- Start young but keep exploring: Anneka’s began skiing as a kid in Vermont, but she never stopped seeking new places to explore. Whether it’s hiking the Andes or fieldwork in Chile, she proves that no matter where you start, the key is to keep pushing your boundaries.
- Mix work with play: She didn’t choose between her career as a climate scientist and her love for the outdoors. Instead, she combined the two. From her fieldwork in Arctic Alaska to her free time backpacking in Patagonia, Anneka’s adventures blend purpose with passion.
- Embrace the unknown: Anneka’s trips to far-flung places like Bhutan or Columbia were filled with uncertainties and challenges, but those experiences shaped her most memorable adventures. The best stories come from stepping outside your comfort zone.
Benefits of the Solution:
- Discover the world in a way most people only dream of: From mountains to jungles, following Anneka’s example means you’ll explore landscapes few get to experience.
- Adventure meets purpose: You won’t just be sightseeing—you’ll be part of something bigger, whether that’s climate work or another passion that drives you to explore.
- Growth through exploration: The thrill of tackling new environments, cultures, and challenges will not only satisfy your adventurous spirit but also push you to grow in ways you never expected.
Lasting message (A): The world is wide, wild, and waiting for you—don’t wait for "someday" to start living your adventure.
Tune into Episode 466 for an experience and motivation with Anneka Williams—a great listen the next time you "get outside!"
Catch you out there,
The Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast Team
Brought to you this week by Alabama Beaches and Roam Generation PR
#AnnekaWilliams, #climatescientist, #VermontSportsMagazine, #CamelsHump, #writingjourney, #ArcticTundra, #climatescience, #SaltLakeCity, #electricutilities, #climaterisks, #resiliencestrategies, #climatevariability, #RoamGenerationPR, #worldsailingjourney, #traveladventurelifestyle, #OutdoorAdventureLifestylePodcast, #VermontsMadRiverValley, #smallcommunity, #fieldworkinAlaska, #studyabroadinBhutan, #ParamointheAndes, #skiinginAntarctica, #technicalwriter, #datamodeling, #technologyintegration, #interactivemaps, #localclimateaction, #SanJuanRivertrip, #backpackinginPeru, #sustainabilityefforts, #wildfiresimpactonelectricity
(upbeat music) Happy holidays, everyone. I hope you're all taking some well-deserved time to relax, enjoy the outdoors, and make some incredible memories with friends and family this season. We're taking a little break here over the next two weeks to recharge and gear up for another exciting year of stories, adventures, and great conversations on the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle podcast in 2025. But we didn't want to leave you hanging, so we're sharing two of our most popular episodes from this past year that are definitely worth another listen. Whether you're on a rope trip, heading out for a hike or kicking back with family in a warm drink, I think you'll love revisiting these. Enjoy, and we'll be back in 2025 with fresh new episodes. Happy holidays, everyone. Welcome to episode 465 of the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle podcast with climate scientist, writer, and backcountry skier, Annika Williams. Brought to you this week by Thrive Market and Rome Generation PR. Annika Williams grew up in Vermont's Mad River Valley, roaming around New England's trails and lapping steep icy ski runs at Mad River Glen. Annika has since pursued stories, ski lines, and climate work in far-flung places from the mountains of Chile and Patagonia, the Bhutanese Himalaya to the streets of Copenhagen, and is currently based in Salt Lake City, Utah, where she works on assessing and mitigating climate risk in the energy sector. Welcome to the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle podcast. The show helping outdoor enthusiasts land your ideal gig in the outdoor industry so you can grow your outdoor career and find more time for your adventures. I'm your host, Rick Saves. Let's get after them. Today I'm speaking with climate scientist, writer, and backcountry skier, Annika Williams. It's gonna be a fun conversation. I think I'm gonna learn a lot about what you do for work. It sounds pretty interesting. - Yeah, I'm excited to be here. - Yeah, cool. So tell us about growing up in Vermont's Mad River Valley, pretty much an outdoor playground, right? - Yeah, pretty much. The valley is really, really special. It's sort of centered around the river, which I think is a really cool uniting force for the community and just whether you're on the water, whether you're in the mountains, whether you're on the banks of the river, it's just a phenomenal place to grow up from an activity standpoint. And it's a really special community. It really has that like small town, rural, feel where everyone is your neighbor. - How many people live there? It's probably a lot like Bishop, didn't it? - I don't know the most recent numbers, but I think something are 1,500 to 3,000-- - It's always smaller, okay. - The valley, my elementary school graduating class was 12 kids in the grade, so it's quite small. Yeah, which pros and cons, but really, yeah, really nice. - Yeah, Bishop's about, I think, 5,000 give or take, so. So tell us about your first ski run. You were probably pretty young, huh? - Yeah, I can't say I remember my first ski run, but I think one of my earliest memories of skiing was taking the single chair at Mad River alone for the first time. So from a very young age, I was going up on the single chair on my mom or dad's lap, but then probably around the age of five or so, I was deemed ready to go by myself. And the single chair has like a bar that kind of swings in front of your chest or stomach, depending on how tall you are. And then there's just like an open space on the side. And I remember getting on that chair at age five and being like, oh my gosh, I am gonna just slide off of this. And you know, as like a five-year-old, I was tiny. And I hugged the bar the entire time, like so hard, but I was unbelievably stoked to make it to the top of the single chair by myself and to then get to ski down that felt like such a big accomplishment as a young skier at Mad River. - Man, as a five-year-old, that's gonna be pretty free, right? Just like, woo-hoo. - Yeah, yeah, it's pretty awesome. I feel really lucky to have gotten to learn to ski at that age when you kind of have no fear and can just like really, really send it before you start to learn about injuries and danger. - Right, letter rip, yeah. And you've got quite a list of far-flung places you've been to. Was most of that work play or a combination of the two? - I'd say a combination of the two. A lot of it was through school. So I was able to do research in Arctic Alaska, one summer in college and I studied abroad in Bhutan and I did field work for my master's thesis in South America. So I definitely, as a climate scientist who has done a lot of field work, I was able to go to some really cool places and that was certainly by design. Like I much prefer to be in the field then at a computer, but some of it was for play too. I was able to lead backpacking trips in Chilean Patagonia during my college winter breaks because it's summer in Patagonia. And when I was living in different places, just taking long weekends to explore was super important to allowing me to stay focused at school and have an outlet elsewhere. - Yeah, clear your head, yeah. So we're some of those places by design. You went there purposely to study something specific or to look at some specific issue? - Yeah, so for example, for my master's thesis, I was in the mountains of Columbia and Ecuador and we were looking at a specific eco region called the Paramo, which is kind of like, it's a high altitude region that's, I think exclusively in South America and it's defined by altitude. And we were studying gas emissions from specific vegetation in the Paramo region. So that research had to be in the Andes. And when I went to Alaska, we were looking at specific research questions focused around the Arctic tundra. And so, when you're looking at questions that relate to really specific environments and you have to do field work, you get to go to some really cool places because they're just like the Arctic tundras in Alaska and very few other places. - Did you go to Antarctica at all? - I have not, that has been on the list for a while. I hope that someday I would love to go, I mean, research would be really cool. I would love to go and ski in Antarctica. I think that would be pretty amazing too. I'm not a big boat person. Like I really don't love being on a big boat on the ocean. So I can't really envision a cruise being the way that I get to Antarctica. - Yeah, some of those cruises are a little busy too, right? They're pretty crowded. And it's not so much fun. I got to go on a very small boat. I think it was 180 feet or something with Sobek down there years ago. - Nice. - Yeah, we got to go by South Georgia Island and all that stuff and it was just phenomenal, yeah. - What time of year were you down there? - Well, it was their summer. So it was our winter, yeah. - Nice, very cool. - We got to set foot on South Georgia, the Gritvig and Willing Station and walk amongst the millions of penguins. - It was just unbelievable, yeah, pretty cool. Yeah. What was the first piece of writing that you published? Was that why you were in college? - The first, I don't know when the first piece of writing I officially published probably in college. I did a communications internship with Science and Policy Org and wrote some for their magazine. I think the first time I really felt like I was a writer, though, was when I published a piece about hiking a local mountain called Camel's Hump, local to Vermont where I grew up. And I published that when I was in grad school in Vermont Sports, which is a very small local magazine I got paid very little, I'm sure that not many people read it. But I think-- - I bet a lot of the locals read it though, probably, right? - Yes, lots of locals read it and I got lots of great feedback from, you know, high school teachers and community members from where I grew up. But yeah, that was, I really felt like I approached it as a writer and sort of done a lot of workshopping and had put myself out there. Like it was quite a personal essay and just felt like more vulnerable than writing something academic or summarizing research and publishing that. - Right, right, right, right, right. But to put some of yourself in the writing and expose and thoughts, I do that every week on the podcast. (laughing) - Yeah, it's difficult. - Yeah, it's tricky. - It's hard to put it out there for everyone. - Yeah, I gotta call somebody today about something that I decided I was gonna do but I'm not gonna do it because it just doesn't, it's not in line with what I'm about, what my audience is about, so. - Yeah. - You gotta stay true to yourself, for sure. - Yeah. - How were you inspired to become a climate scientist and a writer? - I wish I could say it was really intentional but it definitely wasn't. I think for the climate science side of things, I kind of stumbled into an opportunity to go to Alaska and do field work in the Arctic Tundra when I was relatively early in college and that was like a very transformative experience for me. So I spent time in Bethel, Alaska or near Bethel, Alaska where like 60 miles from Bethel on the Tundra and we took float planes in and landed on a thermo-carced lake and it was like incredibly remote, you know, like totally cut off. We had a field camp manager to kind of advise on safety and communicate with outside world and otherwise we just did science all day and mind you, we had 24 hours of daylight. So like we were doing research at 10 p.m. And I just fell in love with it. Like I think being in a community of people where the goal was just to learn about the environment around us and to ask questions and to test things and I mean, it's like silly. Like you're hauling the most insane scientific equipment across such an unforgiving landscape and sweltering heat and bugs. And like you're either gonna laugh or cry and most of the time we were laughing but I came back from that trip with just like really strong jive to continue doing that work. And I think climate science in particular for me just overlaps with so many other parts of society. Like, you know, climate change is an economic issue. It's a social issue. It's a governmental issue. It's a science issue. And so I think there are so many lenses you can come at it with that I, as someone who is pretty interdisciplinary and how I think and approach the world, it felt like a really good thing to continue to pursue because there are so many different like ways that we need to address climate change. - Yeah, and it impacts, I mean, it impacts so many, all aspects of our life and our world because we only have one planet. It's we continue to devour this one. There isn't anyone, any other ones popping up on the radar you had to go to, so. - Totally. - It's crucially important. I'm sure you know way more about that than I do. But it's, and how does that, I guess how does that, is that motivate you to move, do more work and find solutions quicker or does it, how does that handle, how does that affect you? - Yeah, I mean, people often ask me if it's depressing to work as a climate scientist. And I mean, I think it's really sad to learn about some of the like ecological damage that has happened and is happening and to really think about how many people across the world are already, like already have and are in the process of dramatically altering their way of life, not because they want to, but because they have to. So that's certainly very sobering. But on the flip side of that, getting to work as a climate scientist, I'm surrounded by people who are doing really good work and thinking about this all the time. So I think I also have more insight into the fact that there are a lot of people acting on this. And do I wish that we were making progress faster, of course? Do I wish that we had more like stronger government policies in the US to advocate for climate change? Absolutely. But I think like we don't have those things and there are still plenty of people in the space doing really, really good work and scientists, but also storytellers and advocates and lawyers. And I think everyone, no matter their skillset, can contribute. And I think being open to different ways of addressing climate change is hugely important to actually making progress. Yeah, and a lot of people just in their daily lives are changing the way that they go through life, less waste, less this, less that, more of other things. So there's a lot of folks doing a lot of things. And like you say, it's got to be in some ways inspiring too, because you know that you're going to find solutions and stuff to issues. So yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. What, so you're based in Salt Lake City where your bio says your work involved assessing and mitigating climate risk in the energy sector. What's that look like? That's oil and gas folks, I'm assuming? More electric utility is actually. Electric, okay. Yeah, yeah. So in short, my team downscales global climate models for local and regional systems to help electric utilities understand what climate risks they're projected to face in the coming decades. So we think, we talk about climate change all the time, but I think it's really worth noting that there's a lot of uncertainty in how the climate is actually going to change. And climate models are a way that we can kind of input different future scenarios, like different amounts of emissions over the coming decades, and look at different outcomes for, from now to the end of century in terms of the frequency of extreme precipitation or the frequency of three day heat waves. There are all these very specific climate variables that we can project the future of through models. And we can do that in a very regional way because climate change is going to look different for California than for Vermont. And so my team does that actual modeling, downscaling of models, and we will apply that to the region of interest. So if we're working with an electric utility in California, we're gonna look at how climate is changing in California and how it's projected to change. And then we work with a company to tailor specific resilience measures for those projected risks. So, you know, one thing that we see a lot of out west is wildfires and changing wildfire conditions. And so that might be something that needs a lot of attention from a resilience standpoint, whereas extreme cold events, which can really impact electricity assets are decreasing. And so that's not something that companies generally need to think about as much. And, you know, generally I think risk can be thought of as probability times consequence. So something can be risky because there's a high probability of it happening, or something can be risky because there's a really big consequence if it does happen. And generally risk is some combination of probability and consequence. But thinking about, okay, what is the projected future change of wildfires? And then what is the consequence of that on different parts of the electricity system? And what is the probability under different climate scenarios? So that's kind of in a nutshell, what we do, it obviously varies a lot based on the specific company we're working with in terms of what they want and what they need. But yeah, we mostly work with electricity utilities. And I think that's super, it's super important for electricity utilities to be thinking about climate change because we're, you know, kind of banking on relying on electricity for cleaner forms of energy. But electric infrastructure is certainly not immune to climate impacts. And so we need to both expand the grid but also harden the grid against climate change. So it can withstand some of the impacts and actually be able to deliver and meet increased energy needs in the future. - Yeah, we see that around here a lot. We are electric companies, Southern California Edison, there seem to be always having trouble with lines going down and, you know, the poles falling over and they're always at work on them. And we get big winds here and a lot of fire danger. So it's interesting how those guys deal with that. Yeah. - Yeah, totally. I mean, it's just like navigating a new landscape in a way that really impacts a lot of people, you know? Like when it's your own house, you deal with it in the ways that you want to and you can make decisions quickly but it's a lot harder for electric companies that, you know, depending on how they're funded like it might be really hard to get funding for resilience measures. But it's also, you know, the results of a climate hazard event like a wildfire or an extreme windstorm or something like that can be catastrophic on the grid which supports critical infrastructure. So yeah, it's important. - And are they mostly amenable to working with you? They don't, I mean, some of the linemen might be good. Oh God, here comes that climate change kind of person again. - Yeah, I mean, like, I think our clients like, they do hire us, so they do want to work with us. I think a challenge that we often face is thinking about like how resilient you want to be. So if you operate under a high risk aversion model, you might decide that you want to build resilience to the worst possible climate change future but that is way more costly than like a lower emission scenario and more costly. - And one more unknown too, right? You don't really know how bad it's going to get. - Totally. There are a lot of decisions. There's a lot of uncertainty that companies have to deal with to make decisions about, well, do we plan to this high emission scenario and assume that climate change is going to be really, really bad? Or do we assume that we're going to figure some things out and make some progress and it's not going to be as bad as it could be? And, you know, what are the consequences of each of those decisions? And, you know, maybe it costs a lot more to plan to a super worst case climate scenario but, you know, if you don't plan to that scenario and then it happens, like it's really hard. And I think I really appreciate when we do have an opportunity to move past just thinking about the data and have those more like existential philosophical conversations 'cause it's like how we navigate risk is a very personal decision. And there are instances like when you're thinking about it at the level of an electric utility where it's a personal decision that impacts a lot of people. - A lot of times too though, it seems like these days it's a financial decision because you guys are all publicly traded so they're beholden to a new master. - Totally. I mean, the financial component is probably the biggest concern for our clients where it's just like, where do we get funding to underground our system or to harden wood poles against wildfires or whatever? Like everything has a price. And I think ideally like regulations and legislation would support more funding for climate resilience activities but we're just not there yet. - Yeah, really tricky. So you must be in the field a lot. Is it like five days a week? How much time you spend in the field? - I actually am not in the field like at all right now. We do, like climate modeling is very much a computer process. - I was just envisioning you out there with your iPad, running all the numbers and then looking at the infrastructure. - I wish, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, no, I'm not in the field really at all these days which yeah is harder for me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's tough for an outdoor person. I couldn't handle that I don't think. - Yeah. - And how do you get to choose which projects to take on or does that come from somebody higher than you? Does you have any impact on that? - I have a little bit of say, yeah, I'd say saying no is hard for me. So generally I just say yes. - Not smart though probably. - But I think for like freelance writing projects like a gut feeling can go a long way, you know, as you said earlier, like you want to stay true to your values and sometimes they're projects or gear reviews or whatever. I'm just like, you know, this really, I'm not the right person to do this and this doesn't align with what I value. - How often do you get something that's, oh God, this is going to be a project I'm not going to have fun with but not too often? - Not that often. I think I'm new enough to working on energy resilience that I still have so much to learn that like most projects, even if it's really challenging as well like I learned something about what I don't like or what's hard. So yeah, I think most of the time it can be like everything can be framed. It's a learning opportunity. So it's sort of like, okay, like I can do this even if I learn that I never want to do this again. - Right, right. Well, that's something good to learn, you know, I mean. - Yeah. - You know, if you don't learn that, then you keep getting stuck with stuff you don't want to do. So walk us through a typical day. Is there a typical day for you? - I strive for a typical day. I do think we're seeing it can be nice. Yeah, I'd say like movement is a really important part of my day. So I usually get up pretty early and do some sort of like gentle movement, like Pilates or yoga to wake up. And then living in Salt Lake, I'm really spoiled and have great access to the mountains. So trail running, biking, skiing in the winter, rock climbing, like you can kind of do all of that in the context of a relatively normal work day. - Exactly like Bishop, yep. You're around too. There's always something to do you're around. - It's really, really special to live in a place where you can like go ski and stand on top of a mountain and get back to your computer by 10 a.m. So I'd say that's a really important part of my days. And then I have a lot of colleagues all over the country. So I'd say, you know, I don't work at nine to five in the sense that sometimes I'm on calls way earlier with people on the East Coast. Sometimes I stay on line past five to wrap something up or connect with someone who's in a later time zone. And yeah, and then I try to, as a writer, I try to read as much as possible. So that's usually more of an evening activity for me. With the election coming up, I feel like I've mostly been reading the news more so than novels, which yeah, for better, for worse, better. - Yeah, I've been reading that. - Yeah, I think kind of like consuming text is an important, yeah, important part of my day in terms of just staying sharp and getting new ideas for what I wanna write about and just like appreciating language. - Yeah, yeah, that's cool. - We're gonna take a little break and give some love to our sponsor, Thrive Market. I think organic groceries are too expensive. So does Thrive Market. They guarantee savings on healthy groceries and home essentials delivered. How? It's easy. They work directly with the best organic brands so you get the highest quality products without the big retail markups. Shop everything from pantry essentials to sustainable meat and seafood to non-toxic cleaning supplies and save up to 30% on your favorite products. Choose a free gift of the $24 in value when you purchase a Thrive Market membership. One year and one month memberships are available. Go to ricksays.com/thrivemarket and get your membership today. That's ricksays.com/thrivemarket. Now, back to the show. - So what are some of the technologies you use in your work? I bet you have some pretty creative programs and things that give you data. It's got to be fascinating. - Yeah, I'd say like a lot of the modeling happens on platforms that are like widely used across industries and like very capable at doing cool things. So we do a lot of coding and Python migrating over from R. We use Pangio, we use GIS systems, but I'd say that these days on my team, I'm mostly the technical writer. So I'm not really doing the coding or mapping or kind of data downloads. I'm more the person that gets the results of those things in relatively raw form. And it's like, okay, what's the story here? Like, how do we work with clients to understand this? And I love being the mediator there. I feel as a scientist, I was able to learn like how to interpret data and that's an ongoing learning process, but that's like how you're trained in school. And most of our clients don't, like most electric utilities don't have a resident climate scientist. So we can't really hand them off data and say, roll with this. They'll have a sustainability coordinator or, and they have like plenty of scientists on board, but we really want to deliver a product that's actionable and can be incorporated into company processes and policies. And so I really enjoy kind of being a person to start to break down like how do we communicate this information that we intuitively understand 'cause it's what we do all day into something that can be interpreted in a useful way by someone who maybe has never looked at a climate projections map before. - And how often do you get to work on the implementation side of the info you just delivered? - Definitely not as much as I would like. Usually our contracts end when we have a deliverable and sometimes we will be involved in implementation. That's like a huge goal of mine professionally is to get more experience on the implementation side because I think we could refine our process of, you know, developing data and writing the reports to be-- - Yeah, both sides could be better at what they do. - More effective. Yeah, as we know how it's actually going to be used, I think we are thinking a lot about, can we move away from the standard, you know, huge report that is hard to sift through and take advantage of the fact that technology is so advanced that we can, you know, can we make a short video or a story map or, you know, a like very visual, heavy presentation that can be more easily incorporated into company classes. - Liberate on YouTube and everybody can have access to it? - Yeah. - Not everybody, you could lock it down with who you want to. - Totally. - Yeah, but like everybody, I'll bet. - Totally, but just, you know, we want this to be useful. We don't want this to sit on the shelf. - Yeah. Is that changing, do you think, in the future? - Yeah, I think it's definitely changing. I mean, I think like even just reading the news online now, like there are so many more interactive maps highlighting weather and climate data and really like any other visual, like you can find really cool, like traffic maps and things like that. And I think that's a good thing. I think we should leverage the technology we have to be better communicators. And as a, you know, writer at heart, I'm like, I do really appreciate just like good text on a page. So I don't think that we should replace everything with visuals, but I think kind of striking a better balance of like, how can we use text to support compelling visuals and how can we advance both those things? - Do you use audio at all? It's interesting to me. I keep, you know, me and a podcaster, it's fascinating to me how many folks aren't using the medium of podcasting. They'd still think of it as this radio style, entertainment, informational thing, whereas it could be, I talk to these businesses a lot. If you guys had an internal podcast, it would save you hours from having to read. People would listen to your, you know, monthly newsletter, your monthly employee communique on their way to work. Do you guys-- - That's a really good point. Yeah, we, I don't think my team definitely doesn't do any of that, but I feel like a podcast is breaking down, like our methodology and interpreting results would be such a helpful reference. - Yeah, yeah. And it's pretty simple to do it. I mean, Dave, I can do it, anybody can do it, but I still will then do it. But I talk to people about that a lot and it's just, and you know, in the big scheme of things, podcasting is still a pretty new medium. But as it gets more widely spread, you just look and I was talking to somebody who ran a big one of these publicly traded outdoor brands, you know, and he's got to communicate with, I forget how many people in the course of a month. And they send out this newsletter and it goes up by email and probably 70% of the people don't read it, you know. And if you had a podcast, slap it out there, but it's fascinating. Well, if you guys need any help, let me know. - Yeah, I'll for sure reach out. I think that's a great idea to explore. - Yeah, it could be pretty cool. So if you've worked in remote and wild places, can you share a unique or memorable experience you have during one of these adventures? - Big weather, animals or? - Yeah, such a good question. I'd say-- - All the power went out, you opened the Arctic and all the power goes out. - We didn't have power to begin with, so that was-- - Okay, well, that makes it easy. - Or a generator to charge the science equipment, but that was about it. I'd say one place that I kind of always return to is Chilean Patagonia. I led three years in a row. I was able to participate or lead backpacking trips through a newly created national park. And it was one of the parks spearheaded by Chris and Doug Tompkins. - Oh, awesome. - So a very recent addition and very cool story from just a contemporary conservation standpoint. And I feel really fortunate that I just-- - Great history story too. I mean, they were down there early and it's pretty phenomenal what they did, yeah. - Totally, it's, yeah, so impressive. The new movie about Chris is amazing. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I really love that. But yeah, I feel really lucky that I got to spend time down there and it's just a beautiful landscape. And I think it was really interesting to be down there and to sort of see some of the tension between locals who were resistant to rangelands, like the places that had been branched being converted to wilderness and conserved. And I definitely went down there as a young college student with a, oh my gosh, conservation is like the best thing. We can do attitude. And I think it was like very humbling to kind of start to see that there are other sides. And I mean, I think having the parks in Patagonia is amazing and like such a gift from Chris and Doug, pumpkins and it's complicated where that land had a very different use by locals. And it was not something that they were, that every local was necessarily on board with. And I think for me, that just really highlights like the ongoing complexity of working in the environmental climate and outdoor space where people just view land in fundamentally different ways based on a variety of different factors. And it feels so impossible to make everyone happy most of the time. And I think I'm just like continually kind of questioning my own values and where they come from. And so fascinated by stories of conservation being done differently, but also the quote unquote like winners and losers when land is conserved. So I really think of Patagonia as a place that's so magical in terms of its beauty, but also as a place that kind of really introduced me to the complexities of being an environmentalist. - Yeah, and this place is all over the world. There's some stuff up in the Arctic or some of the natives up there who have been doing what they've been doing for eons. And here we come wanting to, we can't do this anymore because it's hurting the planet. We've been here for thousands of years, it's fine. - Totally, and here we come as scientists who are like, we're gonna like figure, we're gonna study your land and it's-- - Solve your problems. We're not how many problems. - I don't know. Like natives, traditional ecological knowledge is so valid and valuable as well. And I don't think that scientists often are always know how to incorporate it or see them as well. - And sometimes they're more advanced because they've been doing it for so long, right? - Absolutely, yeah. - And they do it that way because they know we have to be here forever. So if we ruin this place, yeah, it's fascinating. - Yeah, and I think time and place is not nothing. Like spending decade after decade, generation after generation in a place and really learning it intimately is very, very cool and brings a lot of knowledge that you really can't get when you're a scientist who's maybe there for two months. - Yep, yep, they've been there for many, many years and they're doing something right because they're still there, right? They're not going anywhere, you know? It's fascinating, yeah. What advice would you give to our listeners about sustainability and conservation in their daily lives? What kind of things, what more things can we do or any advice on that? - Yeah, I think this is such a hard question to answer 'cause it's like everything and nothing. I mean, the biggest-- - And what's aspect, right? There's so many different aspects of it. - Yeah, there's water, there's land, there's air, there's-- - Exactly, yeah, I mean, there are truly so many different issues. So I'd say if there's something you're really passionate about or feel like really impacts you where you live and feels personal and that's a motivator for you, then like absolutely follow that. Like I don't think it's worth spending tons of time on what's like the quote unquote right issue or most important issue. Like if there's something that is meaningful to you, that is important to have something that you're driven to pursue and that you're gonna keep pursuing. I mean, I think like the biggest lever to drive change is collective action. So who is in office matters? Decisions made at state and federal levels matter. Big companies can be huge players in addressing climate change. So what big companies are doing does matter. And I think all of that is great to know but makes it really daunting to know how to engage as an individual. And I feel that all the time where it's like, well, yeah, collective action matters, but like, how do I then participate in that? I think like digging into data and asking questions can be a really good thing to do as an individual. You know, where does your food come from? And what climate action steps has your electric utility taken? And most people don't even know who their electric utility is. And so kind of starting to just try and piece together the impact you have as an individual, not in a like, you need to turn the lights off more when you leave, but like just to kind of like start to contextualize the like webs that you're a part of and think about, okay, are there ways to push my electric utility to take more climate positive steps? Or are there ways to change some of my eating habits to support different food systems that are more climate positive? Banking is a huge one. Like people, like where you bank really matters because you basically loan a bank your money and they invest it. And, you know, they could invest it in really good things that drive positive change or things that perpetuate the current model or fossil fuels or whatever. So I think just being informed about some of these hidden ways that your choices, do you have an impact is important? And then just staying educated. I think it is really, it can be really hard to participate as an individual. And I think just like staying a breast of knowledge is a really good place to start because then you can kind of like consume knowledge, consume knowledge. And then maybe you just happen to find like the right thing for you to get involved in based on where you live or who you know or something like that. - That's good advice because there's a lot of different ways and I think we forget about how are common, you know, what cell phone brand and type you have and service you have is impactful on climate. So look at all those different things. That's good advice. - Yeah. And I think as, you know, having grown up in rural Vermont, I am very community oriented by nature because that's just how I was raised and how you have to exist in that small of the community. But I think, you know, if engaging at a federal level feels way too daunting or impossible to like really have that be meaningful to you, you know, thinking about your town or your city can be a really good starting point. Like figure out like who is doing the climate work for your city or your municipality or your county and reach out to them and see if there are volunteer opportunities. And that might connect you with people that you don't know yet in the community who are like-minded, who you can then like kind of work together with and build a small group. It's like, you know, individuals can work to build collectives and then that can drive collective action. So kind of thinking about like, maybe you don't know exactly what you can do for the environment, but if you can bring people together and then brainstorm what you all can do for the environment, that can be a really good thing too. - That's great advice, yeah. Are there any exciting projects or destinations you have coming up? - I'm going on a river trip on the San Juan in- - Oh, beautiful. - A couple of weeks, I'm super psyched on that. - That'll be a relaxing, I think. - Oh, yeah, I'm so excited. Fall in the desert is amazing and I usually choose pretty high impact, type two activities. So I'm excited to- - Everybody's only got one rapid and it's not very big, so you'll have fun. - Oh yeah, where I'm like gonna bring a book, good food, like super psyched for that. And then currently in the process of planning a backpacking trip to Peru in October, which will just be a personal trip, which will be awesome and feels like the first time in a while, I'll do a trip that is just for me. - It's for you. You know, where are you gonna go on a trek of some sort or follow a path or? - Yeah, we're hoping to do this alcante trek, which is similar to the Inca Trail, but theoretically less crowded and you end up Machu Picchu and, you know, cross over some relatively high elevation passes and yeah, should be really beautiful. I love South America and I've spent quite a bit of time in Southern South America and less time. - It's amazing. - Why are they annoying? - Yeah, that's awesome, that'll be fun. What's your favorite piece of outdoor gear under $100? - I have to say, I have this pair of Swick's Nordic pants that I've had probably for 15 years since middle school and there's nothing special about them at all. They've just really held up for all types of adventures. They're kind of like a mix of like wind protection and insulation and they like full zip on the sides, which sounds super dorky but is like really nice when you're trying to put them on. - That sounds awesome, yeah, no, yeah. - Yeah, right, right. - And I feel like that's the piece of gear that it just always works and there's nothing high tech about it and it's very inexpensive and I will be so sad if I ever wear them out or lose them because I'm not sure that Swick's even makes them anymore. - I'd buy a second pair now if you could find one. - I know, that's what I always do. - Totally. - You probably read a lot with all the traveling need that you do, do you have a favorite book or two? - Yeah. - Maybe you don't because you read so much for work. - I feel like, yeah, I have lots of favorites but one that comes to mind that I read earlier this summer is called the light eaters and it's about plants and my undergraduate thesis focused on conifer forests and kind of like plant physiology. And I think this book is a really accessible story about just how smart plants are and plants are way more intelligent than we give them credit for. And it was just so fun to read and then look outside at this massive lavender plant that I have on my patio and just be like, wow, this plant is doing so much that I just can't appreciate. - Let me go give it a big hug. - Totally. Yeah. So I think it just like really changes your perspective on things. I also just read A Walk in the Park by Kevin Fadarko. It's his new book. - Great book. - So good. Did not at all make me want to do the hike that they did because it sounded so hard but I think he's a phenomenal adventure writer and I think it's the perfect book to just remind yourself that there are still so much wild left in the world and you just have to know how to find it. - Yeah, and don't be afraid of it, just go. - Totally. - You'll have a blast, yeah. And if people want to follow up with you, what's the best way? - I love getting emails. Direct email is the best and I can put my email on the show notes. I do have a website, onacowallions.com where you can find a portfolio of my writing. I am not a big social media user. I do have Instagram that I'm on relatively infrequently but if that works for you, then fine. - Yeah, we'll put links to all that stuff in the show notes. What's been great talking to you, thanks for coming on. - Yeah, thank you, this is awesome. - If you find yourself out here in Bishop's Skiing or something, give a holler. - Oh, I for sure will. - Yeah, I would. - I won't ski with you but I'll tell you where to go. - We can get coffee. - We can get coffee for sure. - You can point out all the mountains. - Exactly, yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, I appreciate it. - Yeah, thank you. - Unleash your story and watch your brand thrive with Rome Generation PR. In the flood of content these days, brands often find themselves lost at sea, struggling to connect and engage with the right audience at the right time. Rome Generation PR is your lifeline. They'll seamlessly connect your brand story with the ideal audience, driving results to make your brand thrive. Found out on a yacht while sailing around the world, they bring a unique perspective to public relations because they live the lifestyle their partners represent. With the passion for discovery, they've been shining a spotlight on bold, pioneering brands in the travel, adventure, and lifestyle sectors worldwide for years now. Want to know more? Visit RomeGeneration.com and let them help your brand navigate the world of media and outdoor adventure and unleash your story today. Thank you for joining us on another episode of the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast. Be sure to visit our website, ricksays.com where you'll find show notes and links to everything we talk about and more. And while you're at it, if you found value in this show, give us a rating on Apple Podcast or spread the word and tell a friend. That would really help us out too. Be sure to tune in every week and thanks again for listening to the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast. Can you tell us about the number of products you have? What are the benefits of this? I'm going to ask you to make sure that you're the best. I'm going to tell you about the way you're going to feel. I'm going to ask you to make a special event. I'm going to ask you to make a special event. I'm going to ask you to make a special event. I'm going to ask you to make a special event. I'm going to ask you to make a special event. Humans are heavily performing to the transport of the Colorado.
