(dramatic music) - Guys, are you having a hard time finding a girlfriend? In 2024, it seems like the dream of getting married and having a family is dead. But it's not. I brought on Jamie Date today to talk to me about what men are getting wrong in their dating and how it can actually be very simple to find the woman of your dreams. So if you've been struggling, if it's fearful, if it's just darn hard out there right now, we're gonna show you today exactly who you need to be to land the love of your life. Jamie, welcome to the show. - I'm really actually curious to get into this whole ethical dating conversation 'cause there's so much unethical dating happening. - What do you mean by unethical? - That's exactly the conversation I wanna have. - Yeah, so the reason what you definitely wanna do in is a lot of your work highlights how to... Well, okay, I'll just say it. How to date properly in an age where digital dating is happening, where apps are happening. So many men today, it seems like there's a gigantic skill gap. They don't know how to use the apps. They don't even know how to talk to a woman. And a lot of the problems that I see, not with yourself, but with so many people in your field that made you stand out from them is so many of them, it's tips, it's tricks, it's use this to scam this girl and doing this. Here's how to have a pile of women every week kind of thing. And yours was so distant from that. Yours was much more, here's how to be much more who you are. Here's how to bring that best part of yourself forward. So can I ask you, what is it that made you take that approach? Because it's so easy to make money off of really nervous, scared guys and just scam them and scam everyone around them. And you're not doing that and I respect that. Why did you take that harder path? - So to me, it's not really that hard. To be honest with you, I think that the power dynamic has actually shifted. And I think a lot more men, given what they want, right? I think a lot more men actually want to get into solid relationships now. Back in the '90s and early 2000s, it was flipped, right? Women were craving these relationships, like date me, date me, why won't this guy date me? And guys were the ones that were the rise of pickup artists and things like that, right? Like they're the ones that are kind of dating around, leading girls on. And while there's still that going on, I actually think that the power dynamic, like I said, has actually shifted. And I think women are kind of, now we don't need you for your money anymore. Now we are kind of wanting a man that is more attractive, along with being able to communicate. We've had to go, women have had to go through a big transformation. Being the financially and physically weaker species are so long, we've had to learn how to get ahead. And now it's almost like the men's turn a little bit, where now men have to go through this hard time to then get better, right, to actually grow. And I think that at the end of the day, my whole why of why I'm doing this, and I say this all the time, it's like, I'm actually very over the whole like, men hating women, women hating men motif. It's very exhausting to me. I just want us to get back on the same TAM team again, because it's more fun. I like guys, I love girls. Like, I'd rather us get on the same team than just continue to hate each other, because it's really, hating each other is really breeding loneliness. And loneliness kills us. And that's what we're realizing. Loneliness is the thing that actually gets us, you know, more depressed. But relationships, that's what gives us happiness. - And the separation is just so artificial. Men and women, there's no reason for us to be separate. There's no reason for us to be hating each other, or scared of each other. But we've seen the numbers, the rise of men having a massive fear of women, and the rise of women having a massive fear of men, those phobias, gynophobia, androphobia, they're massively increasing. At the same time, we're seeing a huge surge in personality disorders, up from 9%, up to an estimated 15 to 20%, we're seeing a rise in attachment issues where I come in and specialize in that. It's just this overwhelming, obsessive fear that men and women have for each other. Speak to that a little bit. Is that maybe one of the major issues you see holding men back in dating? Is it terror? What is it? - Fear, fear and anxiety are the reason. And it's not, and I'd like to say list, it's not your fault. I mean, the reality is, is that we've created a society where we are all so isolated that, so two things are happening. One, we're not talking to each other anymore because we all live in an isolated lifestyle. We have solo entertainment, right? So we don't have shared experiences anymore, right? And then the other thing that's happening is we're scrolling, so the way that we're entertaining ourselves is a constant reminder of what we should be having. Groups, socializations, dating, right? Why this person's toxic? Why this person's a narcissist? In, grained in your head. So now, I was actually talking to a teacher friend of mine yesterday, and she teaches high school, and we were talking about the same thing, and she goes, you know, the biggest, the biggest thing that I'm noticing with kids today is they're too afraid to fail. They'd rather not do the homework, not do the work assignment instead of raising their hand and asking a question to get help because they don't want other people judging them. And that's exactly what's happening in dating. You know, I've been doing this for five years, and I am still blown away by how many, not even unfortunate looking people. Men will come to me 25, 30, 35, 40-year-old virgins, or have never dated, or have only used sex services. They've not actually cultivated a relationship for themselves, and it's all because they don't want to fail. They just wanna get all of the lines, all the little tips and tricks and techniques, and then think that they're just gonna re-emerge as this Casanova, but baby, you gotta fail faster to get there. Be a loser now so you can be a legend later. - Absolutely, I'm seeing the same thing in my coaching practices. Guys coming in, you know, they're like over six feet tall, they're making over six figures, and they're wealthy, they're not unattractive, they actually put themselves together pretty well, and the fear I see is two fears. One is fear of rejection. They're terrified a woman's gonna reject them. And he's gonna die on the spot because his life is over, so rejection feels like death. The second piece though is fear that somehow if they do connect to a woman that she has no desire for love, she's gonna be a complete sociopath and just ruin his life, 'cause that's what we read about online mostly, and that he's utterly terrified of being alone, but he's equally terrified of being not alone, and they're trapped in this end of the spiral. - So keep in mind that social media is actually a fear-driven industry, right? You guys are actually working through a system that is built to empower engagement, and nothing gets more engagement than fear-based posts. As you well know, it is always negatives, it's not the positives that get you the most attention. And if the mechanism behind it is so simply driven by numbers, which it is, well, guess what, populates, right? That's the thing that sells, fear-based services sell, you know, fear-based coaching sells. Do not be alone, you know, do not have your wife leave you. Do not, you know, be a loser, else all to do, not, right? How are you guys gonna change that around if you guys are trying to get everybody to come in and be friends again? - Well, that's been a challenge. Obviously you and I working together, trying to create positive hype is, you know, how do you pop in with a good message that goes viral? It's so, so, so hard to do that. The only way that I have found to do that is I've had to use more personal examples from my family of here's what I've experienced and how good it is. Here's how good it is. I just say, you know, I've been married 15 and a half years. I got five kids, I bought a farm, we live together, I fly to the city and do work and stuff and film in the cities, but I built that life because it's approved to men that it's possible. And you have to talk about those stories. That's the biggest thing I've seen is the men when I post about, hey, spending time with my wife and kids today is so great, we're doing this. I get all these DMs from men who say, I have never heard a dad or a husband talk positively about their relationship like you have. Like it was so refreshing for the first time to hear that there's good relationships out there. And that's been the piece that has astounded me. And you're nodding your head over there, Jamie, is that something you're hearing? Are the guys you're talking to, have they never seen a functioning relationship? - Oh, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Is when I talk to a man who has just terrible fear or anxiety or just dread of just women in general, one of the first questions I ask is, who are your good examples of couples being in a relationship? And it is so often that they're just like, I don't, my friend that I knew in college, you know, he's still married. I still see him on Facebook and that, but they don't actually know, right? And I'm also nodding my head too, because I find this, I struggle myself. I would have three times as many followers if I just bashed women all the time. Like some of my colleagues I've seen do, and talk about how women are terrible and this and that. And I can't bring myself to do it, because first of all, I vote one of the reasons why I found such success in my life is, I'm able to look at both sides of the coin, and I understand, and this is the other thing too, is I started doing Man Appreciation Monday, and where I actually talk very well about men, because a lot of, and same thing, a lot of men will reach out to me, thank you so much for this. I haven't received a compliment in five years. I have, no one gives me any sort of praise, appreciation, nothing. And I found that to be so sad, so I started doing this, and it's amazing the response that I've been getting. And so we just need to remind everyone of just empathy, but also we are using a fear-based system to keep us engaged, because that's what keeps us very close to our wallets. - I unfortunately fully agree with that, I do. Your point is very well made though, that men get no engagement at home or in their life, like most guys, if you, maybe you turn seven, if you've had a decent mom, she has hugged you, and loved you up to about age seven, if she was in the home, if she was spending time with you, if she had decent attachment, if she didn't smother you with her anxiety, or run away, or spend her time on her boyfriends, then you got very little connection, but after seven or eight, you stop getting hugs, you don't really get much physical contact at that point, for most guys, you might get a hug a year on your birthday from your mom, occasionally, is what most guys do, sometimes, and they have no physical contact with women. - Yeah, so women are definitely seeking connection, but they are seeking it at a level that has the same level of communication, comprehension, problem solving, that they would like to see to make a relationship work. And I think that what's happening is a lot of the men, a lot of, not all men, but a lot of men, they're either kind of going into fight or flight, so fighting, is they're just bashing women, bashing women, women, they're too much work, they're too much work, they're not enough, or flight, where they're just like, I'm done, I don't wanna date all the time with it. - Let me tell you guys. - And I think what's happening too, to your point, is actually the opposite, I think porn, is another huge, deterring factor, because what's happening is when men watch porn, that is so easily accessible, for however many years the internet has been around, right? What's happening is you are subconsciously training your body to respond, to release, to a woman that is very beautiful for minimal effort. And therefore, you do that over the years, every woman that you meet in real life is now gonna be too much effort, because you've tricked your body into thinking that it can be released with a beautiful woman for nothing. So, all of these, there's no one, like this is the culprit, there's multiple culprits, it's almost like homelessness. Homelessness is not the problem. Homelessness is a result of a lot of different issues. Trouble in dating is not the problem, it's a result of a lot of different issues, right? So we have to be very cognizant and intentional of how we're going to solve these issues so you can get to a better dating life without the excuses. - So where would you start? This is the big complex net of issues. What is the first thing you got to tackle? Say, you know, you're the president of the United States tomorrow, probably be better than the current one, but you know, depends on this episode, Ayers. You can do anything you want. And this is it, you have to finally fix the break between woman and men, and recreate the happy family, or not family, you know, whatever it is that you think is best. What are you going to do? - So, I mean, it's hard to kind of put Pandora back in the box, right? Getting rid of, you know, easily excess porn and social media, but I mean, the realism of that is very, very difficult. The thing that I would do is this. Establish yourself in a community. It's my number one pillar that I teach men, because here's the thing, the reason why digital dating is so hard is because of the physiology of attraction, how attraction works in women versus men, right? When you guys look at a woman, okay? How do you know if you want to pursue, right? So say you guys are single, obviously I know that you're married, whatever, but how would you know if you want to pursue her physical appearance, right? That would be the barrier to entry. I'm not saying it's the only thing, but she's got to be attractive, at least, right? Physical appearance. She's got to be noticeable. Attractive doesn't necessarily mean you have to have like a certain type of hair and a certain type of figure, but yes, something interesting. - Sure, but to you, she has to have some sort of physical appearance that makes you want to pursue her. - Sure. - Excited, right? And that's not judging, that's just human biology, right? And goes back to fertility because more attractive women tend to be healthier and more fertile. It's all evolution, right? - We had a good chat about that Dr. Tarben too, the other day. That was good. It's a very common thing. People will be discussing this for ages, right? And I think if we get to the point where we can have an honest conversation about what we are and what we like, sometimes just the very simple truth have to be said and it's just unambiguous, yes. You have to have a level of attraction and appearance plays a key role in it. You want to lie about it, go ahead, but it ain't going to help. - Exactly, and that's the thing, I'm not in the business of wasting anyone's time. I tell it to guys like it is because let's get you there faster, right? So women, we don't work like that, right? Now physical appearance is important to us. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you guys and be like, you know, we don't, women don't care at all about looks, like that's not real. But it's not number one. What's number one? It's an, and actually I learned this from Huberman Lab podcast, but either way, it's not a man's looks, it's not a man's money, it's a man's circumstance. How the world interacts with him and how he interacts with the world. So women, through evolution, we have learned that men that are generally more liked while respected members of the community tend to be a lot safer. Being the physically and financially weaker species, a sexual relationship for women, we actually have a lot to lose. We can be left for pregnant. Our reputations can be on the line. We can be attacked, whatever, right? We've learned through evolution that we need to trust who the man is in his environment. Because anything he says to us, kind of filtered through a, well, you kind of just wanna get in our pants mode, right? But if we can really see who you are amongst your social circle, the community, right? That is what's going to turn us on. And community is the number one thing we don't have anymore. That's why online dating is such a crap sheet for men. Because men, on the front end, it's, she's hot. She's not, she's not, she's hot, she's not. Women is like, he's hot, but I don't actually know who you are 'cause I only know you from a dinner date. This is when I talk to my clients, the separation I make is this 'cause that's true. Evolution, evolutionary things have taught us that healthy women are going to seek men in that community setting. Healthy men are gonna be looking for that attractiveness. With attachment challenges, that absolute shattering of society really is what it is, where the woman has no community, she's alone. It's less like meeting a man in your village square. And you know, and you see his status. And it's more like everybody wandering around the woods trying to pop out from behind trees, yelling at each other. "Wow, you're pretty." Like women don't like that. And that's where women are at today, where they are, they're constantly having strangers pop out from around trees, yelling about how pretty they are. And that's, most women have been conditioned through attachment, which skews your evolutionary control and says, "No, seek safety." And then find a man, you don't have the benefit of pre-veting. You don't have the benefit of status analysis, of relationship analysis. You're gonna have to figure it out fast and then develop that safety, which is why that high level of anxiety exists. It's why an estimated one-quarter of women are in antidepressants or anti-anxiety pills today, is they've almost never been more miserable because of this. We definitely need to have to bring back community 'cause it's skewing the way that women are mate selecting, way out of control. And that's one reason I think men are having a lot of problems. It's not women's fault, it's men are having problems because women are in the woods, wandering around with strangers popping out and they're terrified, of course they're terrified. - Yeah, what are you gonna guys, where are you guys gonna go to find that community? Everything's online, you know, this podcast is online. You know, your work is online. You know, your groceries get delivered to you online, you know, everything's online. I was gonna say like, maybe what you should do is just have like two days a week, the internet's turned off for everybody, you have to go outside. It's it, everything's over. (laughs) - Yeah, that's why, you know, COVID, if it wasn't for COVID, COVID would have been great for today, right? So, what I was gonna say, when it comes to, getting out there, right? The internet is a tool. So, being the person that to actually be initiating group sessions, group activities, things like that, like figuring out what you like. But Robert Greene, I listened to Robert Greene, he's a guy who wrote mastery and artist seduction. I heard him on a podcast, I can't remember what it is, but either way, he was talking about how, eventually everything shifts. Things are not gonna stay the same forever. And what I foresee, and it might not be in our generation, sadly, it might be, you know, in the coming generations, but I think, eventually, people are gonna get so damn sick of being online all the time. I think people are going to start craving real human connections again, right? I think the tides have to shift at some point, and I think, you know, the new age hipsters might be the first ones to get rid of, okay, I'm dumb at social media, right? And obviously, that's a very optimistic way of thinking, but just that thought hearing him say that, it really gave me this sense of peace of like, okay, you're right, things don't always stay the same. - Yeah, but I went to Japan a couple of years back, and I just remember going through such interesting society, and everybody's on their phone, everything is digital. They have like dating simulator centers, you know, where you go and you have a slot machine where you're supposed to go through this like, press one button, would you say this? Would you say this? And you're basically trying to seduce or have a relation with the digital character. It's getting worse, not better than here. And they're very, very, very vocal about it, the people who actually work in psychology there, but their birth rates have dropped, their levels of depression, suicide, everything has gone significantly up, like they are so much trouble as a society, and they're getting worse, because for them, once you're gonna go down that slope, first of all, climbing back up is very difficult, and people like you really help, but you're limited. There's only this much you can do, and we haven't really figured out cloning quite yet, but it's also just so difficult to get out of that slump, especially if you used to print out it, especially if you used to this weird artificial dating, I just don't even see how they will climb out of that. I didn't think, and we're going down the same path, how are we gonna do any better? - There's a good question, so piggyback right off of that. What success rate are you seeing when men learn the skills, when men grow, when they learn to bond, they just learn to talk, and again, you follow the ethical dating structure, which I really like about you. What success rate are you seeing? Is it like 5% of men are able to get a girlfriend? Is it 20%? Is it 100%? What do you see? - You know, sadly, well, the way that my program works is I don't, first of all, I never promise, like, hey, you're gonna meet your girlfriend in the next three months, right? So it's like, but I've helped many guys get into relationships, but I think the more solid understanding of what success is, like the metric I prefer to use, is how can you go through life with less fear when it comes to women, when it comes to actually adjusting and doing the things in your life that you actually enjoy doing with other people, right? That's one element, and the second element is understanding how attraction works in women, so that you can understand what you were doing was wrong and why it didn't work, right? Because a lot of what was quote unquote wrong is they weren't actually being very true to themselves. They were just being friendly, kind, cordial, but if you think about it, and this is how I get them, right? Think about who you are when you're with your closest friends, right? The people who actually call you up and wanna hang out with you, right, are you able to tease? Are you able to joke? Are you able to say things that are true to yourself? That's actually your true self. The person that you're with on a new date, on a first date, is that you? No, right? That's you with a bunch of guards up. So my metric of success is how can we bring you closer to who you are when you're with the people who love you most? When you're with people or you're with women that you're on a first, second, third date with, that's my metric of success. And when they understand that, oh my God, there's not one person I haven't worked with that has left and been like, you know what? I didn't get anything from this. Everyone is like, I understand now why what I was doing wasn't working. And that's all I'm good with that. I love that. - That's what I've seen too with my coaching clients. I have a whole coaching program. I run people through mostly guys in their mid to late thirties who are wanting to settle down. It just hasn't worked for them. And they come in, it's five sessions and it's skill training, skill training, skill training, this is what women think. This is how they feel. And they're just like the whole time frantically. Women think that men don't care. They're like taking pages of notes, four pages. And I'm like, buddy, we're transcripting this. And they're like, no, I need the notes. And it's just pages of information. Men are so hungry to understand women. It's not even funny, women have no idea. And by session three, session four, they're dating way more than before. Most of my guys, session five, has to turn into Adam, I have a new girlfriend for the first time in five years. What do I do? And then it's what do I do with a girlfriend? I actually caught, it's like the dog chasing the car. The dog chases the car. What do I do when I catch the car? You just like freeze. - Yeah, no, it's two skill sets. It's getting the woman and keeping the woman. And I've just seen the same thing, right? Like through my program, guys are going on way more first dates, way more second dates, way more. Now I'm actually talking to someone, how to know if I should ask your girlfriend or if should we just keep things casual? I'm not sure. Like that's the fun part, right? And so what I've seen with these guys, and it's so funny that you say that if women, as soon as my girlfriends find out, or girls that I meet, find out that I'm a dating coach for men, they will, oh, thank God they need it. Ta-da-da-da. And the first thing I want to tell them is if you saw what I got to see on a daily basis of how much men care and want to understand you, and really want to try for you, and really want to provide you with a great life, a great support system, you would change your tune. And you know what they always tell me? They're like, yeah, I could see that. - That's part of the problem though. So you're right, that the dynamic has shifted, and the woman are also kind of pulling away as men did before, but just the standards that they have sometimes are just so bizarre. Like they almost expect the guys to act exactly like their girlfriends, to communicate at the level that females communicate, to understand, have the emotional kind of depth that a woman experiences. Like, there's some things we can do, but we're wired a little bit differently, and it doesn't work like that. - The problem is that women don't have community anymore, so the man has to not just be her partner, but be her community. He has to be her like that. - It doesn't work like that. - It's not supposed to. - I would disagree, I would disagree. I actually think it's flipped. I think men don't have a lot of community. Women, I think one of the only silver linings I think that, well I actually, I take that back, there are a lot of silver linings that came from the Me Too movement, but now it's kind of gotten a little blown out of proportion, I completely agree with that, but either way, let's get back to why it was happening, right? One of the good things that came out of it is I actually think women are really developing a lot of strong community with themselves. I even see it with my own girlfriends or women that I meet were just more on the same team. Men, I think of anything, their community's completely ravaged or being done through virtual means like video games, right? - And that's not the best of society either. I gotta say, people hanging out on video game servers, they're probably not your ideal role models. I'm sure there's an exception here and there, but nonetheless, so it's like men, their community is falling apart and the quality of the leaders that community is decreasing, that's also why there's like motivational coaches and whatnot who really are trying to kind of bring it together digitally, that's a different story. But for women, they're not seeing examples of how relationships work, right? So you're right because they kind of isolate a little bit and they will kind of create this chamber and that chamber, the idea that men suck, it gets repeated and repeated and repeated, I'm sure it gets also built up because women have this emotionality and compassion for each other. So when you get all the horror stories and you, oh my God, he did this to you, he's gonna do this to me. And again, a fear-based kind of eco-chambers form that way. And then this expectation for men to be safe is very high and the men show up having no understanding what safety even is for a woman because they're working on a different level. It's just a big mismatch, that's dating standards that are just a big problem for people. - And I think this solution is men also, so a big part of what I teach is how to communicate in a way that makes a woman want to stay 'cause isn't that what our goal is? Don't we wanna have partners that want to stay with us? - That'd be nice, was chaining them by the leg. - Men have to go through this part of oppression a little bit to create the necessity to learn, to grow, to do self-improvement. Just like women also had to go through when we had to start getting jobs, when we wanted to start getting jobs, I should say, and actually being able to afford and pay for our own selves, we also had to learn. So it's just, I feel like in a way, and I get a lot of bash for this, but I feel like it's men's time. Men now need to learn how to up their level of communication so they can get a relationship with a woman that wants to stay with him, that isn't just there for his money, that actually wants to cultivate of a good relationship. We all want the same thing, let's get on the same team, and we're gonna have to both work to get there. - So there's a concept out there called a high-value man. We talked a lot about that, I think about a year ago, I know it's been kind of floating around. Do you believe in what would be a high-value man? Is that even a thing that's still existing in the dating world? - I mean, if you consult social media influencers, like myself it is, it's a word that gets tossed around a lot. High-value man, high-value woman. And for me, the way that I can define it is this, is a person that is, let me think about this. The person that is okay with being single, instead of being in a relationship, they don't actually feel fulfilled in. Because when you are a high-value person, you are completely accepting and loving of yourself, you still want a relationship, but you don't need one. And therefore, when you cultivate a relationship out of desire, out of love, that is a beautiful thing, versus I need you for your money, I need you for the clout, I need you because you look pretty, right? So in that, that's a high-value person, the one that actually is okay with being single, but chooses not to be because of the relationship they've been able to cultivate together. - All right, well, what do you think? What's a high-value person from the standpoint of attachment theory? - I think that's a very wholesome answer, Jamie, that you've given. And it is, I wish that was the real definition that more people than I thought. - All right, I'm at six, five, finance blue eyes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go, there you go. But I mean, our culture is so fear-saturated. When I say that women don't have community, I don't mean they don't speak to anybody, I mean that women don't have a sense of security, they don't have the group around them they use to for safety. Women are in charge of their own safety now, and that's, regardless of how a person might feel about that, it does create a huge spike of anxiety for women to be solely responsible for your own safety. It's not how we're evolutionarily driven. So that system is really counteractive for overall human well-being. So what you're looking at is what is a high-value man, a man that creates safety, really is what women are largely looking for when I talk to them nowadays, is does he create safety and stability in my world? And there's basics for that. There's basics, is he a wild cannibal who's gonna eat me? But is he making enough? Is he safe in that regard? Is he emotionally care for my needs? Is he going to leave me? Is he blah, blah, blah, blah? And some of them are perfectly reasonable. And then some women have had so little connection and they have so little support in their life that they almost become unreasonable and it becomes what is all the points of safety that would make me just feel comfortable. Instead, it's not even safe, it's comfort. So their nervous systems are so overclocked that discomfort feels like danger and pain to them. So then the man not only has to be safe, safe, but has to be overabundantly safe to make her comfortable, comfortable, comfortable. That's what I'm seeing. It's just that overclocked nervous system. I think that's where women are going in that direction, not all, some, and men are trying to respond to that, that overwhelming, how can I make you endlessly comfortable? That's, and I tell men, don't aim for those women. Don't aim for those women. Aim for the women who have a clearer sense of what's actually necessary, who want to give back, who want to foster a reciprocal relationship with you. There are so many women out there craving to give genuine love to their boyfriend, to their husband, and he has no idea what that even looks like, so he can't receive it. - So Jamie, what do you think is the ideal woman you should go for? What is an ideal female characteristic? I say, if you find a girl like that, then like absolutely go for it. - Well, but that's so broad. Give her a, like, who is the guy? - I don't know. - Well, you could, before you could pick like what woman should you go for? It has to be like, what kind of life is he trying to live, right? - So what kind of life are you, what picture are you painting? Like a guy who wants to get married and have kids? - Yeah, so for example, yeah, okay, I get it. So basically let's assume that we have a guy who is, he's say 30, you know, he works a lot. He, you know, has been focused on his career, he's established a career, he now wants to have a solid relationship, three kids, you know, a house, a wife, and then, you know, basically that traditional kind of lifestyle that says he's gonna get you happy. - And let's say no chemical addictions, let's say no porn addiction, let's say he has some social skills, he's not a maxed expert at it, but some social skills, and he's seeking a lifelong stable commitment with a woman who will talk to him clearly and directly. What are you looking for over there? What kind of woman should that guy aim for? Should he be cruising on Instagram, looking for women and bikinis and try to find those girls for a marriage? - Yeah, the end of sentence, okay, so, so first of all, there's three ways to meet women, online dating, cold approach, and social circle, right? That's it. And when it comes to what you should be doing, so first of all, I only know how to teach you how to get healthy women. I don't, I've never really been able to, 'cause I've never been the crazy girl, I've never really, I have a good stable family, I had a great relationship with my parents who are still married, happily, right? So I've seen from an offspring perspective how to make a relationship work. And I think the bigger issue, I was gonna say this earlier is, and this goes for men and women, is our inability to hold off gratification, right? So we need instant gratification. So both parties do not know how to make a relationship work because we are so quick to out the door by leave at the first sign of trouble, right? Instead of sitting here, 'cause also we have Instagram and our girlfriends and our guy fans going, ah, get another one, or do this, or go back on online dating, or, you know, attachment, he's a narcissist, or, you know, she's a gold digger, or all these things, right? Screaming at our face instead of allowing us to be in it and saying, hey, how can we find common ground, right? With our partners. But as far as how to actually get women, so first of all, that's another reason why I chose to be in this space, is where pickup artists, and, you know, a lot of male dating coaches, what they'll say is, you know, play off of her insecurities. Okay, you could do that, but what type of woman are you getting? An insecure one. So that's gonna blow up right in your face. So you're gonna have to play off of what I teach is how to play off of her curiosity. 'Cause women, there's a great book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts, and it's all of these studies that have come out of how the physiology of attraction works in men and women. And women, we're like detectives. We wanna find out everything about you. So don't tell us everything right away because we want context clues to figure it out, right? It's what excites us. Again, you can blame it, you can tell it's terrible, but that's just literally how it is, right? Just like with men, only, you know, mostly wanting young, beautiful, whatever women. So it's the same thing. But the question is, okay, how, what would this man do? So first of all, again, establish yourself in community. Your work, we all understand money doesn't buy happiness. Money buys options, money buys comfort. Comfort makes you numb. You need to use the anger, the frustration, the reason why we have these feelings, these negative feelings within us, is because it is the gasoline that propels us to get better at something. And instead, we are numbing it with social media scrolling, with porn, with whatever. Sit with your angry feelings and take action. How can you channel those feelings into something productive? So establishing yourself in a community, think about times in your kid, what did you like doing? If money wasn't an object, how would you spend your time? Lean into those activities, meet more people, just get yourself out there in other ways outside of your job and the gym, which by the way, you have to go to the gym, serve for so much more reason than just physical appearance. But either way, getting yourself out there, that's the first thing. Coming to talk to people like me, right? To help set up your dating profile, help you understand women when you're actually talking to them. How to, like I said, break down those barriers of who you are when you're with your friends versus talking to somebody new. How can you make that a seamless transition, right? These things will help you attract the women that you actually wanna be around and help you get more male relationships. That's the other thing too, men, guys, take a page out of women's books. Women are banding up together. Men, you guys all complain about the same things. I don't have any friends, right? I stopped making friends when I was in high school. I stopped making friends when I was in college. I don't know, my best friend lives halfway across the country. I haven't seen him in a couple years. That's, go, all of you guys are saying the same thing. You guys are begging for friendship, but you guys can't even go out and meet each other to talk to each other. So let alone women. So get a strong social circle. And then everything falls into place a lot easier. Lack of friendship is a huge problem for guys and a big reason why they can't get girlfriends because your relationships are the advertisement for who you are. You can tell her all day long, I'm a good man. I have honor. I am a smart man. I am caring. I stay with people. And then tell me about the people in your life. I don't have anyone in my life. I don't have any friends. I don't talk to my family. I don't go anywhere. I don't see anyone. That's gonna tell her a lot about your priorities, about your fear. And also there's so many unknowns there. Women don't usually like massive unknowns of zero data. Who is this guy? How will he act? - No, and loners, loners are a big red flag because think about it. That also goes for evolution. Because if you're a loner, that does mean death back in the day, right? If you don't have any friends, if you didn't have a community, you were a leper, right? So again, it is ingrained in us that when we realize that you actually don't have a lot going on, which is gonna reflect in your storytelling, which is gonna reflect how you talk to us, which is gonna reflect on your confidence, just talking to people 'cause you're not used to doing it, right? It's gonna make us go away. We're gonna stranger danger, right? So again, everything falls so much more into place. Once you start prioritizing relationships, not your work. - Well, bound slide style, I like it. So here's an interesting question 'cause there's something that you've mentioned in the beginning of this conversation. You take losers to legends. What is the definition of a loser? What is the definition of a legend? Let's, everybody pull out their checklists. Let's see this. - So a loser is, not that I love that word, but it is a great alliteration. And actually I got this from a dating coach friend of mine, Jared Lawrence. But he, so being a loser, quote unquote, to me is someone that doesn't even try, right? So in the world of red flags and green flags, he's a white flag, he's given up, right? So someone that doesn't even try, then yeah, you don't deserve. You don't deserve. You gotta pay to play, right? That's how it works. That is how life works. And so someone that is a loser, that's someone that doesn't try. Someone that's a legend is someone that is so used to failing that the sting of failure, the sting of rejection is like a little prick. It doesn't even, it's muscle memory at that point, right? You're so used to talking to women, you're so used to that it doesn't even matter, that you're just gonna go after this, come hell or high water, and you're gonna make it work because you're relentless. That's a legend. - And that's even reflected in physiognomy 'cause women actually adore scars 'cause it shows that you took battle damage and kept going. But even physically, that guy takes hits and keeps going. Scar tissue is actually a big turn on for a long time. - You do not take this as dating advice. Do you not go give yourself scar tissue? - Sure, sure, but no, it is so true, what she's saying about men, and I hope men at home will listen to this because it is even visual clues of this physically attract women. - It's not a very long checklist, though we need to keep adding to our checklist. What else? Okay, so I get the six feet, I get the six abs, or how many abs you need. What are some personal characteristics? What should you strive for? - So here's the thing, I actually just did a whole webinar on this, and it was all about how to go from just nice to Mr. Right. And it's really, so many men, they come and be like, I want a woman that's feminine, I want a feminine woman. And here's the thing, femininity, and I throw myself as an example all the time. I am living in my masculine. Women are tied, all my own business. I teach guys game for a living. Like I'm so, like I love being my masculine 'cause it allows me to afford the life that I live. But at the same time, I want a man to be so masculine that I have no choice but to be feminine because I want to be, 'cause I trust his decision making. So in that masculine traits is what women crave. We love masculinity, and that's one of the things that we're not seeing in practice with the way that we live our lives. So what are four traits that really demonstrate to us, masculinity, risk taking, purpose driven, leadership, and equanimity, right? These are the four things that, and men, if they really take a moment to think about their lives, right? How often am I taking risks? Well, I took a risk going to college, I took a risk getting a job, and now I live in this comfy house and this comfy job, and where's my women? Well, women, we're not seeing you taking risks, right? This is why a lot of people get married or meet each other in college because women are seeing you pursue something. We are witnessing that, right? Which is why dating is a lot harder the older that you get because a lot of men, to no fault of their own, I understand that we live in a society where it makes it really freaking easy to be comfortable. How can we seek discomfort, purpose driven? Are you just going to work gym home? That's not purpose. What are you doing outside of the work? If you don't love your job, fine, what are you using your money to pay for? How can you tinker? How can you master? How can we witness that, right? As women, leadership. Are you just the one that takes the back seat while everyone else makes the decisions? Or are you actually making the decisions for your group? Are you the one showing with your action putting yourself at risk for making the wrong decision but knowing that someone's got to step up to the freaking plate? And then equanimity is the last one. How cool, common, composed you are during tough times. And that doesn't mean to bury it. That means to exercise these emotions in other healthier ways. Therapy, male relationships and friendships, right? That's the other thing. Are you just burying everything? Well, then you're going to become avoidant because you're not going to be used to having to care for those feelings that you do have because you're a human. - So one thing that you said I really want to jump in on. Therapy from men. We are of a stance, an atom is of a stance. The therapy is largely failing men, right? Do you want to talk a little about that? Because I'd love to hear what you think about therapy from that, Jamie. - Yeah, so for context, I was a licensed marriage and family therapist for many, many years. And I treated a tremendous number of men. Men in corrections, men who had killed 10 or more people but also just family men, good men, single men, normal men, healthy men, non-murdering men is what I say when I mean normal. Men from every possible walk of life and one thing I noticed was many of them, they had had three or four prior therapists. They had felt really uncomfortable. They're learning to embrace their feelings but they weren't really learning how to be masculine. Therapy modalities nowadays are so shifted into the humanistic theories of feel your feelings all the time, always be aware of them. And a lot of guys get stuck there and they don't navigate beyond that into now master them, now discipline them, now use them as data and don't unfeal them, use them as data and then make better decisions. They don't go there. And therapy doesn't push them into that. Therapy allows you to just sit there endlessly in a puddle of your own emotions until you get exhausted. And most therapists are guided to say, the client will tell you where they want to go, they are client driven. And they, in schooling, they told us again and again, don't push on your clients. They are the ones who are experts in the room and so many therapists hear this. And then if you don't, you get sued or you lose your license or blah, blah, blah. So therapy right now is not properly built for men. I think that coaching is a system built for men. So solution focused therapy was one modality I used, which is better. But coaching is what men are really looking for. They walk in, they say, here is my problem. You say, cool, here is what you are supposed to do. And they say, excellent, thank you. I will come back, I will do that and come back in one week and report. Please give me the next test to do. That's what a lot of men are looking for. And that's how they grow. That's how men learn. That's how we evolve. We have to have that driven modality. So I don't think that therapy is doing its job for men. I think it can help them go from negative 10 to zero, but therapy does not really, modern therapy, does not help them go above zero, right? That's gonna be coaching, it's guidance. It's, yes, coming to Jamie or coming to myself, it's getting mentors, it's practicing, it's experience. That's what's really going to make you grow. Therapy, I don't think is gonna take men there. What do you think, Jamie? So I think that having a good therapist changes the whole dynamic. And I would actually, I agree with you in some extent, but I think that a good therapist is worth its weight in gold. And I think because the therapy, and this is what's the really missing element of dating very healed, a high value, quote unquote, women nowadays, we want a man that is able to communicate and therapy, a good therapist is going to teach that man how good communication works, just by being that listening ear, which is what a lot of women want. So I think in that way, in that regard, therapy is actually really good because it teaches guys how to communicate at a higher level, which is what women nowadays are asking more of from their men, okay? The other thing is, I agree with you on this one though, as far as, and not to kind of, I might as well just pull out the personal anecdote of my life. Why not permission to be vulnerable? So I actually recently went through a breakup myself that was very, very hard. It was a very tough decision we both had to make. And it's funny, it's like, for me, the way that I make sense of the world, the way that I digest my feelings, I research, right? I'm very masculine in that way too. Like, I'm like researching all this stuff. Like, what's the psychology behind? What, what I'm going through? Why am I thinking this way? Like, I'm just like diving and diving in. And I'm talking to a lot of my coach friends, right? One of the perks of our job is a lot of our friends are also coaches and therapists and things like that. And I'm talking to them and they're really helping me. They're really making me, helping me understand like what I'm going through and not allowing myself to feel the blame, shame of, just because I'm a dating coach, I shouldn't get the, right? So it allows me, and then I went to go, I started seeing a therapist because of this. And it's like one, one session brought me right back to being just so sad because I just was, I was transported right back to being upset again. And I was like, I thought I was progressing so quickly. And I realized talk therapy is good in some instances, but it's not in a lot of other ones, like how you're saying. Sometimes you need someone to say, "Hey, do this, don't do this," right? And when it comes to traditional talk therapy because your limbic system, because your emotional circuitry is working on a completely other realm, right? There is so much more feelings related therapy, EMDR, right? Or like psychedelic therapy, which is what, you know, what I do every October for my clients, right? We try and figure out, okay, what are the ways that we can process what we're feeling emotionally so we can show up better for the people that we love, right? So back in the day, I mean, it's funny we talk about how guys, you know, how they, you know, they're more purpose driven, they don't need to talk out their feelings, whatever, but how many holes have you punched in your wall when you were angry back in the day, right? Like there is a lot of feelings that men are told not to feel and that's also very harmful. So there has to be a platform where men can learn how to handle these emotions, process them, and like I said, use them for good, channel them into self improvement so that they can show up better for their partner, for their friends, for their work, for their, what have you. - Yeah, but therapy is not supposed to be that. Therapy, you walk in and you get a diagnosis, you resolve the diagnosis and you move on. What I think has happened, what I have seen is when Freud set out to create therapy and talk therapy, he said his goal was to create an army of secular pastors that would take over the role of priesthood, mentorship, and everything and bring it under an umbrella of therapy. So now what we've got exactly what you just said is you go into therapy to learn communication skills. You shouldn't be learning your communication skills in therapy, that's a whole coaching system, that's interpersonal training, that's something completely different. You must get a diagnosis to be in therapy and you are supposed to be purely working toward that diagnosis. We've turned therapy into 15 different things, so men who are now are required to go into therapy and do 15 different things there. I think we need to break that apart and restore the original relationships which are gonna be much more effective rather than sending men to a system of, let's talk about our feelings endlessly over and over and over 'cause men don't know how to do that. They don't know how to access it and most men don't usually benefit as much from that, that women do. But do you think that they can learn? Because again, from a woman's perspective, I would like my man to be able to label his feelings, to be able to have those deeper lives. To have those feelings and label them, that makes sense. But women primarily understand their feelings through processing them with another person because your logical brain diminishes to fuel the rise of the emotional anxiety on the agitated right brain. You plug in with a logical left brain for someone else, it builds connection, you develop oxytocin and then serotonin association. You bond with the other person through sharing as a confidant. Men get some of that, but our communication approach and even our reason for it is so different. So putting men through a therapy program specifically, I think we need to break that out. I think coaches like yourself and I are actually a step beyond that of recovering some of that that we have shoved into therapy. I think that men need more priests and pastors, more friends, more trainers, more mentors. I don't think bringing that all into the umbrella of let's make therapy 19 things and then cram men into it, it's not working. 'Cause men don't want therapy most men. They don't want to go. They don't want to cry about feelings and be diagnosed. They want to get quick bite-sized information. - Well, that's the whole problem, isn't it? Is that they don't want to choose discomfort? - Well, no, no, they don't want to choose something useless. 'Cause I've been in the systems. I've worked in multiple different states. I've traveled the United States talking to therapists, watching the licensing system on the back end, watching how California has turned out hundreds of thousands of therapists and they are building systems that doesn't even require those therapists to go through therapy themselves or get resolved issues. They're training them in humanistic talk therapy of just listen, listen, listen. I don't think we're doing a good job of even preparing therapists. When you said that the right therapist is a game changer, I fully agree, but I don't think it's because they're a therapist. I think it's because they are an all-around mentor who has one element of therapy but also training, coaching, everything. They're doing 15 things amazingly well and I think that's too much to put on a mass production model of therapy. I think that we can break that out into 14, 15 different industries again, like it's supposed to be where you're supposed to have relationships, community. As you said earlier, bring back community instead of plugging this guy into a therapist and saying your therapist will now be everything for you. That's what I think we need to do that. - Well, I agree with that there because therapy, I think, is good. A, obviously a good therapist is gonna be a game changer, but therapy is good if you really don't have anyone else to go to and that's what I realized in my own life. I was like, I feel like I'm not, I feel like I have a great support system and people that, and here's the key, people that are also gonna call me out on my shit because you also don't want a bunch of yes people just saying, yeah, totally, he's an asshole, he's a narcissist, whatever, right? You need people to also call me out and so if you have that, that's great, right? Via coach, via mentor, all of these other things, but if you don't have anybody, which is what we've talked about, a lot of men don't have anybody, right? Therapy is a way where they can actually get some of them out and I have to say like a lot of my clients have gone to therapy and have had great relationship or great breakthroughs and actually their therapist encourage them to come find people like me because they realize that they also need not just a listening ear, but someone to really help them go through what's going on. - So the therapists are recognizing the limits of therapy and sending them to a product which is good. Which is good, but here's a thing, right? You guys are actually hitting on the points here and that is the point truly is that you now have to recreate the community, right? So if a therapist, if you need to talk through feelings, yes, there's for sure a way and a process to do that. The goal is not to have you talk through feelings, the goal is to have you integrate them, become a part of that and move on with your life with less fear, exactly, you said Jamie. So you have to do part A with specialist A, you have to do part B with specialist B and in essence, we're actually creating this new community that are going to people who are specialized in allowing you to figure out what is wrong with you and how to fix it so that you can become the person you want, right? We have this beautiful ability to select and find coaches like yourselves and therapists online, everywhere, like this is now a giant offer that we're presenting across the board. - Well, and that's what we're building as an ecosystem that's replacing community. Like men, men need people like Jamie in the world. Men need to work with you, Jamie, specifically, because they don't have moms, aunts, grandmothers, female cousins, sisters who are saying, if a man talks to 40 women in his extended family network, he's not petrified of women, he's used to women, he's comfortable with women and they vet him and they help and he meets a woman out in the wild or they bring women to him and say, "He's amazing." And he says, "Yes, I am." And that's the community, men don't have that. So I don't think they need therapy. I think they need you and then they need to build new structures so that their sons will have all of those women in their family system and then they won't need you and me anymore. I don't think generations, 50 years from now, hopefully, hopefully God willing won't need people like you and me, but I think that right now you and me are so vital to the system because of the men that are missing those systems and the women that are missing those systems. We can't do, the men can't do without you. - And that's the issue that I have specifically with traditional therapy is to say, "This is all you need and all you need to talk about..." - That's a religion. - It's not, honestly, men rarely benefit from talking about their feelings for long periods of time. They benefit from integrating those feelings into their life and actually becoming better. - So doing something with the feelings? - Yeah, so as those feelings come again, you know what to do with them and they do not cause you the same holdup, exactly feeling that the bulletproof aspect, the confidence, 'cause you imagine what would happen if you have a guy and then you say something and he breaks down and cries. In the middle of the road on a road trip, talks about his feelings and then you're late to it, whatever you're going, that's pathetic. You know, he's gonna enjoy that. Instead, hey, learn a feeling. Hey, this is how I feel in this moment. This is what I want. Decide, move on, lead. - So here's a thought and Jamie, you brought this up early, equanimity, man needs to be disciplined in his feelings. And so to her point, go to therapy, learn how to manage those feelings so they don't creep up on you and explode, absolutely. Learn that your feelings are useful data and manage them properly so that a woman can predict how you're going to act and your feelings won't overwhelm you. If your feelings are overwhelming you and it's because of past trauma, yeah, therapy, 100%, EMDR is an amazing behavior, an amazing neurological piece, somatic, non-talk therapy, right? EMDR, I send so many of my clients specifically to EMDR and I always have because it's neurology based, it is not talk based. And men are like, really? I don't have to talk about feelings, yeah, barely at all. You go in, you do this and this and this, talk to this therapist, do this. And it's this incredible structure. EMDR is phenomenal, irreplaceable for most things. I don't think that's ever going to go away. But you don't want a man who is so obsessed with his feelings, that's all he talks about, that's all he thinks about, he can't move forward 'cause he doesn't feel safe yet, he needs to do this. No, he needs to be disciplined with his feelings and able to talk about them enough to manage them. And again, that's missing because he doesn't have the fathers, the uncles, the grandfathers, the male cousins, he doesn't have them helping him understand how to manage his feelings. I don't think therapy is the perfect place for him to learn that. I think it's actually other men. I think that he needs to be in community, like you said earlier with male friends who laugh at him, but also comfort him and say, okay man, you're hurting, totally get you, let's feel it. There's a line in Hamlet where McDuff's whole family has been absolutely slaughtered. Just like all the babies, everybody killed, this whole family. And the other guy say, come on, get up, we gotta go take revenge and he says, I will, I will deal with it as a man, but first I must feel it as a man. And I think that you feel, then you get up until you, until you get through it, then you get up and do something about it. And that's what men are supposed to do is lead each other on, okay, you're gonna feel it, you're gonna suffer, you're gonna get through it, I'm gonna be with you while you do that, I'm gonna guard you so that, you know, a tiger doesn't eat you while you're crying, and then I'm gonna get you up and put a spear back in your hand and then we're gonna go do something about this. And that's that element that's missing right now. - So let me ask you this, Jamie, as a men's coach specifically, why do men need feelings? What is the role they play there? - Why do men need feelings? - Correct, that's a lot of the times people know that. - It's not even an option, right, we're humans. And so that is what makes us remarkably human, is our feelings, right? And I think that it's the upbringing almost like that where men feel like they shouldn't have feelings and that it's only a hindrance when actuality, just like how we said, feelings are fuel. You can use those, when used correctly, you can propel yourself. There's a great podcast episode on Hidden Brain talks about why we have negative feelings. If negative feelings like fear and anxiety were so bad, they would have weeded themselves out in evolution. Why do we still have them? - Maybe they still are, maybe we just haven't gotten there yet. - No. - I mean, I don't think, I don't think, and I hope that we don't, because then we would be robots. And then women would really not wanna be with men because then we don't also wanna be with robots. - Yeah, it's, so there actually is a case study that we could talk about is people born without pain receptors. Their average life expectancy is 15 years because usually they die within the first 15 years of life. They die as children 'cause they don't get the data that something's dangerous. Feelings, all they are is data, whether it's happiness, sadness, fear, terror, horniness, all of that. It's emotions that indicate what's going on inside. It's the dashboard on your car. Imagine driving a dashboard with a car with no information whatsoever. You have to like smell if the engine's about to catch on fire. You have to guess if the engine, if it has enough gasoline in it, how fast you're going. You have to like put your head up, the window to feel the wind speed. If you have no dashboard of information, you're dead. And that's, if you don't have feelings of awareness of what your feelings mean, you're a blind. You are running blind. So you have to be aware of what your feelings mean, but you also have to regulate your nervous system so it feeds you the proper information. Otherwise you have a thermometer that is overly sensitive telling you, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die. No, you're not, you just need to manage this properly. And that's what feelings are, is useful information. Women's feelings enormously important. I've been married almost 16 years now. My wife's feelings are enormously helpful data on how the relationships are proceeding, how the marriage is doing, how our kids are doing, the stress level in the home. So she brings me those feelings, not like you must take care of my feelings, but she brings me the information, says here's how I'm feeling. And I say, okay, let's talk about that. What's leading to those feelings? Where's the breakdown? What's doing this? How's this happening? And we use her feelings as data. - What great communication that he learned. - 100%, 100%, and it's very useful information that we then problem solve inside the marriage to keep it strong, healthy, and amazing. And then her feelings tell her everything is good, beautiful. That's wonderful. It's reconvening a week and talk about if it's still that way. Feelings are data. That's what they are. - And also the other thing too, I mean, if you don't experience love, you can't experience hate. If you don't experience acceptance and you're gonna experience love, like you need to experience both sides of the pendulum. And that's the thing I think a lot of people today, men and women get into a state of is, they're only focused, they're only purposes. I have to be happy, I have to be happy, I have to feel joy, I have to feel joy. But if joy is your only why, you're going to fall short. Our purpose in life is real simple. It's to have a human experience. That's it. Good and bad. You're not gonna understand good unless you understand bad, right? And so you have to learn how to navigate all of these. And therefore, if you have such frustration and negative energy and negative feelings, right? That's so great because you've now dived yourself deeper so that you can feel the opposite and feel that love and feel that joy to the immensity of how you're feeling it's negative. You just have to learn how to harness it correctly. And once you do, you're going to be able to meet your partner at the depths of which you met yourself. And that's really where pure love and pure joy can really spawn during a beautiful relationship is because of the negative times that you felt. Then the appreciation comes, the desire comes because you no longer have to feel that. You can work with your partner on it. - I like that. I like that. Just kind of as a last question and a little bit of a pivot, but how did you get into this space in the first place? Like what's your story? 'Cause you talk about this so well and I sense a wealth of experience, but is there an education? Is there like a big life change? Like what's the drama that got you here? - Yeah, so Craigslist is the short answer. - Oh. - It's a date myself, but this is about 10 years ago now. It's 25 and nine years ago, I should say. And I used to go door to door for a living, selling solar panels in Southern California. So if you lived there during the years of 2012 to 2014, I probably knocked on your door. And I made a bunch of money, but I was miserable, right? Because 70 hours a week, 100% commission had to knock on doors. And what is approaching if not knocking on someone's door, right? So I had to learn very quickly, right? 'Cause 100% commission, how body language, little nuances, tonalities, how to capture attention very quickly, right? So, but I quit my job. I was prusing Craigslist 'cause I wanted to get, find a gig, I can't sit still, right? And there was this advertisement, hey, come to this party, talk to these guys, we'll pay 100 bucks, let us know how they did, right? And I kind of got the gist that I was like, you know, guys that are trying to develop social skills, and I'm like, I'm game, let's do this. So I go, and from my sales training, from just my own personal experience, I was able to give a lot more logical tactful feedback than I think the other women that they had invited, right? So, you know, where they would go, oh, you know, he was nice, you know, nice guy, right? Or just be yourself, right? I was kind of, hey, you're standing too far back, you're standing too close, this, you know, this, you should have touched me here, you should have teased me there. Like, able to really give this tactful energy, this tactful advice, but also coming from a place of complete empathy. I've always connected very well with men throughout my entire life, right? So I understand what they have to go through to get there. I understand that it is very hard, right? And so through that, I started working with this other company, being what they call the drill model, and then Cosmos from VH1's pickup artist, actually, he saw one of my classes, and he was like, hey, she's not a drill model, she's a coach, make her a coach. And so then I became a coach, again, 'cause men can really up level women when they see the future, right? So again, I have a lot of tremendous respect for guys like that, right, to put themselves out there. And so I became a coach, and then I started TikTok, Instagram, that took off, and it goes back to what Robert Greene talks about in mastery. If you are really struggling with finding your purpose, there is a moment your body will tell you when you're onto something. And when I first started coaching, it was this, I mean, I get chills just talking about it, it was just this guttural visceral, like, this is it, Jamie, you better take this and run. Like, this is your future, this is your purpose. And that's exactly what I did, right? There is so many other reasons, oh my God, Jamie, you're gonna be a dating coach, but you already have a good job, you can do this, you could do that, like all these, this is the vision. And I was making like nothing in the beginning, but I just, I saw it, I took it and I ran. And it's been the greatest gift, I wake up every day thankful that I actually get to pursue something I'm passionate about, which is very sorely missed in today's day and age. Amazing, I love that story, I'm definitely tipping this one. It's great. No, it's exactly it, right? You actually are supposed to find your place, you're supposed to click into your passion, you're supposed to really just have everything connect, and then you need to also have that purpose. You need to see the results, and this is exactly how these communities get to be rebuilt, 'cause they get rebuilt not by geographic locations anymore, but more like, by psycho types, by levels of interests, and the potential of these new communities that you guys are forming is significantly higher than anything we've ever experienced. So you're really creating like the next generation of like, super human, superdators, you know, all of that. Just to answer like a little spin off question, what are you looking for personally? Are you looking to get made? Are you looking to have kids? Like what's kind of your own personal goal there? - It's funny, I was actually talking about this in my family the other day, so for me, the question was, as a 34 year old woman, right? The question was never do you wanna have kids. The question for me is, who do you wanna have kids with? Those are two very different realities, right? So I've always been on the fence, because when I'm alone, I don't really know what having a kid would be like, because so much of that depends on who I'm doing this with. But I find myself the more that I fall in love with a person, right? The more that when I'm in a relationship and I'm falling in love with a man, all of a sudden, right? That masculine energy, feminine energy, that femininity comes out of me and I wanna have a kid with this man, right? So it's funny, you'll get two different answers when I'm in a relationship and when I'm not, right? And so what I'm looking for right now, I love love. I wanna be in love, I'm a great partner, I want, like I said, I want to give love to someone, a man that sees me, hears me, so that I can make him feel seen, I can make him feel heard, because that's the thing. At the end of the day, feminine energy, we're multipliers. Think about it, that's what we do, we multiply. So if you give me, if you fill my cup, I will give you everything, right? But if you don't, you get nothing. And you get, you know what I'm saying? Like it's a two-way street. And so I'm always hoping for someone that makes me feel seen, heard, respected, cherished love so that I can give it right back in tenfold. And that's what I'm looking for. - Very nice, that's beautiful. Well, thank you very much, Jamie. That's a fantastic story, and thanks for coming on. This is, you know, wonderful conversation. Lots of great tips, lots of things that people should be taking notes about, you know, what makes a high value man, who should be looking for in a woman, all of that stuff is phenomenal. And yeah, definitely, everybody, go check out Jamie's work. Jamie, where can we find you? - So you can find me on pretty much all social media platforms at Jamie Date, that's J-A-M is a Mary I-E Date, like you're dating me. And also, yeah, I have a book, I have a program, I have courses that you can find all of that, all of that data. - What are you working on right now that we can tell people about? 'Cause I'm hoping the guy is out there right now listening to you, are like, this is it, this is my person, I need to go find this and I need to work with her. What should they start with, with what you're doing and what you teach? - Yeah, so, well, most recently, so what we're doing in October, the end of October is we do a psilocybin mushroom ceremony. Now, obviously, it's not for everybody, I have to vet them, we have to figure out, you know, their past illnesses, things like that, where to make sure that they're a good candidate. However, for the ones that are, right, we go down to port to Vallarta, Mexico, we have two healers, two shamans that we work with, and we do a traditional psilocybin ceremony, and I actually do it with them and we integrate, we integrate what you learned and how to actually apply those things to your everyday life. So you actually take the lesson that you've learned and, you know, make them come to fruition, right? Because obviously, there's been a ton of, what am I trying to say, a ton of research studies that have come out from places like John Hopkins and Duke University, when it comes to psychedelic research, I've also used it and I did this last year with my clients and the results and the transformations were just so great that I was like, this is where I really wanna take my coaching. And so, that we're doing that at the end of October, I'm planning on writing a second book, which is gonna come out next year, and there's really just something in it for everybody. And as far as, you know, with, like I said, cold approach, online dating and social circle, that's how you meet women, online dating. I know what I'm talking about, that's probably how I've made my name. I actually act as a man on online dating, on behalf of my clients, and I actually talk to women online and I teach you what I do, what I say, right? And to all the guys are, let me see the profile. It's all of my clients. I tell them what to say, I tell them what to do, and they actually see how to talk to women, right? In a way that's fun, catchy, that's gonna make you stand apart, right? And we translate that into how you're actually talking to them in real life, right? So, you can find me, you know, Jamie Date on all the social medias, and hopefully, yeah, we get to work together soon. - Amazing. - Andre, where can we find you? - You can find me @Andrekorocov on Instagram. You can check us out at verdescreative.media. That's for the media work that we do with creators, like Adam and others and coaches, and how we grow and scale them. And you can always just shoot me a question in the comments if you guys had anything that you want me to jump in on answer. Adam? - Where can they find me? - That's right, what can they find you? - I am Adam Lane Smith. Just search that on any platform in the world and you will find my information about attachment, about marriages, primarily. I work with a lot of couples. I work with a lot of individual people who are fearful of getting into a relationship as well and resolving those concerns. You can find my books on adamlatesmith.com, my courses, my coaching. I'm rolling out new programs. We're in hand training coaches as well, creating a system if you are looking for attachment repair. Work with me, work with my coaches, work inside my programs. We'll get you there. - Nice. Awesome. Thanks very much guys for listening. So we'll see you next episode of I Wish You New.
🎙️ In this insightful episode, Jamie, a men’s dating coach who specializes in helping men build authentic connections and attract emotionally secure women, joins Adam Lane Smith, the attachment specialist, and Andrey Korikov, CEO and cofounder of Veritas Creative Media, to break down the hidden dynamics of modern dating and why so many men are struggling to find lasting relationships.
Jamie shares her expertise on what healthy women truly want, why most men fail in dating, and actionable strategies to stand out in a crowded, confusing dating world. This episode is perfect for men who want to attract secure women, understand what's been holding them back in dating, and navigate modern dating without gimmicks or games.
✨ Moments You Can’t Miss ✨:
👉 Why men today fear rejection more than ever, and how it’s holding them back in dating
👉 How social media fear-mongering fuels anxiety for both men and women in relationships
👉 The role fear and pornography play in creating unrealistic expectations about intimacy
👉 Why rebuilding a sense of community is essential for healthy dating and relationships
👉 How the internet facilitates communication but hinders authentic, meaningful relationships
👉 Why men crave understanding and connection and how effective communication can build trust and safety
This episode is a must-listen for men looking to navigate modern dating, overcome fear and rejection, and build meaningful connections based on trust and authenticity. Discover how to attract emotionally secure women, redefine success in relationships, and create a fulfilling dating life rooted in genuine connection. 🎧
If you enjoyed this episode, you will probably love our episode where Dr. Orion Taraban Unveils the Future of Marriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ_YYlJVLjE
A special thanks to our sponsor Rugged Legacy Grooming Supply.
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Need more help with your attachment? Work with Adam: www.adamlanesmith.com
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Follow Jamie Date:
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