Goalie Science
Episode 100: Answering your goalie questions
100 episodes later, here we are. A Goalie Science QnA to wrap up 2024, and our 100th episode of the show. Thank you to everyone who listens, and the great conversations we've had stemming from the podcast. We appreciate all of you.
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- Duration:
- 1h 22m
- Broadcast on:
- 01 Jan 2025
- Audio Format:
- other
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Welcome to the goalie science podcast, the podcast where we try to bridge the gap between goaltending science and peak performance. I'm your host, Dr. Jamie Phillips, a physical therapist and goalie performance specialist. I'm joined as always by Dr. Ben Surat and goalie coach Derek Fuchen, whether you're at home, at the rink, or in the car, grab a copy of your favorite beverage and let's drop the puck on this week's episode. Welcome to goalie science, the podcast that I still figuring out it's identity. At 100 episodes, here we are folks. We've done it. I'm joined by Jamie Phillips and the most aggressive man in the world, Derek Lee. Is it aggressive or is it just... You guys are like doctor of physiotherapies, doctor of chiropractor and advanced analytics. And I think I'm just the doctor of common sense. I think that's the new handle and the new engine. You are the doctor of Zeus. That was the funniest thing you've ever said. You know what it's supposed to be pronounced, serous, but I'd be real. Everything. So we're for knowing things. You know what? You know what you are. You are like every crazed Canadian hockey fan who cannot stand the fact that Canada, that there are other countries that play hockey and get good hockey occasionally. The thing that I think blows my mind is like people will be so upset that, you know, any team can't obviously, you don't want to lose, losing is bad. But acting like they lost to a bunch of terrible hockey teams. There's 15 guys on Latvia who play in the CHL, you're blaming against a bunch of random people. Those are a bunch of very good hockey players on that lapian team. Also, give a little bit of context because if somebody is not listening to this in prime time live viewing, we're talking about the Canadian public going absolutely bonkers because Canada lost to Latvia and the world cheers. And the shoot out and the shoot out now went 16 shooters and one goal only. And I mean, I haven't heard any criticism of those 17-year-old undrafted Jack of Anchorage. But I'm sure there is. I'm sure in this country, there's people out there blaming him. Because I absolutely been a shoot out. I haven't heard this typical holiday rhetoric of Canada, Canadian goal-tenning is broken because Canada has given up two goals and two games so far. I mean, they're currently playing Jeremy at the moment, so we'll see how the conversation continues. But I was actually just a really good game to watch. This lapian goalie was good. Actually, I thought, you know what I liked the most of the lapian goalie was he didn't spend too much time in his RVH, which is the most uncharacteristic thing of a lapian goalie in a very long time. And I just remember watching. I was like, "Oh, good reads, great reads." And you know what? And he was lights out in the shoot out and Canadian's goal. I can't pronounce his name. Ivankovich. Ivankovich. I'm Ivankovich. Okay. Hey, Jaiya, Jack the Ripper was pretty solid in the game. I wish you don't look really good at that goal that went in was an absolute sight. So I don't know why everyone's so mad. Well, they lost. If it makes anyone feel better, I actually saw a lot of complaints that the U.S. team took bad goalies this time around. How do you say that? How do you say Shrei August was a Michigan State is currently playing 10 minutes away from me right now at the GLI. And the reason I didn't stay at a Washington State play was because obviously it's not there. Like, I don't really. I have no invested interest unless very good goalies are playing or especially in tech. And they did lose today and shoot out very over time. But whatever. Yeah, it's anyways. If there are people who are going to complain about Trey Augustine and Hampton, Slukinski, and I think is it still Sam Hillibrand, who's the third? Like it's just like we've, like always, the media, the job and people's job on the internet is to stir up conversation and engagement. And sometimes that stems from wrong takes. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Not anyways. Know about Jamie O'Darr. Nothing that we have never had any wrong takes in 100 current episodes, which is pretty cool. Congratulations, Ben. Booge, you came in right at the very end to hop on our co-tails. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, co-tails, yeah. I think I'm an 11%er or something like that. Like I've been on for the maybe 11 of the 100. But I mean, those are definitely the most entertaining. Anyways, today's episode, uh, well, we were going there. Someone said, do a highlight, like cut out the best parts and make like a compilation. And that would have been way too much work. So we decided to outsource all of our hard work to you, the listeners to send comments and actually base to send questions. I said that you can also throw in some quick shutouts if you wanted to. But basically we're here. Booge, cracked open a beer. I cracked open a glass of wine, not in a wine glass, Ben. This is a diet, A&W. Hey, Jen's got a diet, A&W because he had too many Christmas cookies and is watching his figure. And we are going to answer some of your questions. Just have a conversation. We got, I know a lot of people have said they like when we just talk the talk sometimes and just be goalie coaches and laughs. So let's pop in with the first question on the screen. If you're watching on YouTube, otherwise you'll hear it pop up right now. Hey, Jamie. Hey, Jamie, I've seen a lot of differences in stances in terms of depth and shot threat. Some people play more upright and more relaxed, high stance. But when the play is closer, guys are playing in a more ready, safe stance and they're much lower. I was wondering if you could explain this to me. Thank you. That was, I guess, addressed to me. So I guess I'll start off first. I think, well, actually one of the things I think, I don't want to say it's low hanging fruit. But right now, I don't know if it's the rhetoric on the internet or just the questions I seem to be getting. But I think everyone's kind of pointing the finger at stance being the issue on goals when a lot of times it's, I don't want to say bad goal-tending, but goals are just getting beat on shots. Like there's not bad goal. There's getting beat. Well, that's bad goal-tending or it's a good shot or a good play. It's always, I see a lot of so-and-so's too high in their stance, so-and-so's too low in their stance. So once this is the problem killing goalies is their stance. And I think, yes, there's a time for high stance, yes, there's a time for a little more ready stance. But I think that it's, my opinion is that always blaming it is kind of an issue. Now, when, when do you use it, they don't really have like a guideline. I typically tell goal is that when the puck's above the top of the circle, it's okay to be in a high-ish stance unless that player's coming in with no danger. Anytime that puck's below the top of the circle, probably want to be in a little bit more ready stance just because that pucks a bit more dangerous and you have less time. I don't get into the weeds of stance position unless we're talking about dealing with traffic and in zone movement. But that's, that's my take on stance. I think other than the RVH, I think the second most overcoached, overthought, over digested thing is goaly stances and goaly coaches across the world. It's been way too much time trying to fix stances that don't need to be fixed. And yeah, you know what, like we have, you probably have two or three, maybe four stances that you'll use multiple times in a game. You're dealing with traffic or pucks from the perimeter or different power play setups. But the best stance is the one that you can be active in. And that's really the proper answer is like if you, if you can be in a tall stance and for people listening, I'm doing quotation marks for your tall stance and still react and do a butterfly, then it's just an active stance. And as you get the puck gets a little bit closer, yeah, maybe you get a little bit lower. I got to break away. But there's no right, there's, there's no single stance. I think that's something that we have to kind of understand is like changing our glove and spending five hours just tinkering with the proper angle of your glove and your stance is the biggest waste of time, please, please stop doing that. Yeah, I think it just, like I agree with everything, like I, we start our little holiday camp. We have this week and like the first day we do our classroom session and a big part of it's talking about stance and everyone plug their issues, come into camp tomorrow, but I show four or five different stances of different goalies and college and NHL and they all look really different. And they get the kids to pick things out that they like and dislike about everyone in the stances, and then at the very end I say, okay, every stance is right. You just, you just picked out a million things you liked and didn't like, but they're all good because they work for those goalies. Those goalies can move out of the stance. The comp room, the stance, the making saves and that stance. High stances, which is just like another trend, it just started because have you ever tried to play a power play in a row stance for two minutes straight? Like how exhausting is that? It's, it's, so this high stance emerged as like a risk profile assessment, okay? The puck is not in a dangerous shooting position. I don't need to be in this hiring full body muscle engaged stance, which can be for a goalie draining, right? Like ask a glute is standing there, quote unquote, lower active stance and then see how long before their legs start burning, right? I think what we're just a simplifier, like kind of like streamline what we're talking about, like we say tall stance or low stance, like to me, I'm automatically thinking of like how wide the guys feet are. Same thing with people listening, yeah, it's like we're, when we, we're like, I call it the base, like narrow base or octave base or whatever, like different words, whatever, but it's yeah, like the low stance would be like a wide base, the tall stance would be like a narrow base. So like that's kind of, and at least I've heard what you're talking about Ben. Yeah. And like I have a really good example of it. I actually just put it into the presentation or the classroom session. We do a camp tomorrow. It's like a behind the shooter camera angle from that Latvia can to shoot out. And Jamie, I really like the lot being always tell Berg's game as well. I think he's fun to watch for a lot of reasons, but on the shootout, you can see him go through through those three stance positions really obviously he's got really long legs. So Derek, it makes sense like that base is really obvious when you have a goalie with long legs. And like when the when the playoffs just entering over the blue line, his feet are really close together. He's in that very tall stance. That player gets to the top of the circle like Jamie said, he starts riding out probably more into what we'd call that active stance player gets below the slot and he's in that where we call for that typical break or a wider stance where you have to be really quick to snap into that butterfly or go laterally. And I think that's a really good example of like stances just apply to scenarios that make sense for you as the goalie. So like how wide you want to play comes down to the environment around you and what you are capable of doing. And I don't think it needs to be more than that, does it? Won't play with your feet at your shoulders all the time is maybe a probably a K blanket statement. Unless you can swim that position, then you're probably behind. It's just one is you set it right at the end, can you can you move and can you stop pucks from that position? Are you comfortable? And you know, adding to the list of things that we'd like to throw at goal is to overcomplicate the stance is is easily adapted and changed and I don't love I don't love the idea of the concept of presenting big to the shooter all the time. It's more about I don't if you present big, but you can't move like that doesn't help anyone. But if you are when whatever is comfortable and you can track the pucks and you move well, that's that's great. And it's funny because I see a lot of clips or goalies will come and we'll talk and do radio breakdown. They're like, I was my I was in my call stands or wasn't my ready stances like wasn't that you actually just weren't ready to stop the puck like you just weren't you weren't focused on the puck. I walked in the zone and took a step to the middle and you were not ready for that shot. Doesn't matter what stance you were in you weren't ready you can be in a taller stance and be ready. You can be in the near and a low stance and not be ready at all. It's just you weren't focused on the puck and that's the issue not the stance. And it's what I that's why I don't like, you know, we talk about overcomplicating things and I I've tried to not to overcomplicate things like always be really simple. But you think about the laundry list of things that go through a goal is brain consciously and subconsciously as a planter's his own, you know, a player is walking across the blue and all of a sudden it's like, I got to be tall, I got to be tall, I got to be tall, I got to be narrow. Then they shoot. Yeah. No wonder you're getting beat because you're thinking about how tall your stance is and not about where the puck's going. And that's that's my opinion on stance. So I don't I usually if it's not an issue, I just let the goalies play. Usually the honestly the biggest issue I see is a goal is just love to get too wide and then they get locked in. That's typically the the main stance issue. The glove positioning thing, I don't see it very often. The classic event scrivens isn't there, although one of my goalies kind of likes it and we've been working away from it, but hey, if I don't care as long as you stop the puck, there's a lot of other things that we can work on that are more important. Next question, we've already overcomplicated that answer, so yeah, let's move on. I'll let we do this one. Hey guys, do you know if any NHL goalies that have weird superstitions, thanks a lot. Love the podcast. NHL goalies with weird superstitions. Well, I remember I remember the big story since we're on the world junior topic, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say his name, it ruins the algorithm, but former Philadelphia flyer goalie now unemployed, but when he was in the world, juniors, he had to be the last one off the ice. Remember that? I don't care who he had that standoff with, it might have been an American guy, but neither one of them would get off the ice and the Zamboni was on the ice and they were still on the ice and it ends up being like, if you have those kind of weird superstitions, it ends up being a little bit OCD, where if you can't do that, like it was with this guy, like if if he wasn't the last guy on the ice, then it affected his mental performance, like he definitely struggled, that was like a trigger for him. So that's one, like when I heard that question, that's one I thought of as a world junior former Philadelphia flyer goalie that I think he had to go in, I, it might be wrong, but I think he had to join the players, whatever that's called, help our systems for better than. Yeah, players in the program for, I think, OCD, I think, I think that was one, he was one of those guys early in his career, no, but I can't think of any, I'll stop my head other than the man, I'm sure there's guys that eat like weird food and stuff like that. And then the guys you know over played with, no, no, no, everyone I played with was really normal, all think considered, or if they did have superstitions, they weren't like obvious. I know mine, I'm not an HL guy, obviously, but mine, I was an extensively long routine that just became too much and was exhausting. So like, like Bruce was saying, it's super, I don't see, it's not our superstitions. You have superstitions, it's okay, but don't try not to let them develop so that they're easily disrupted, I can easily get off your game. Like if you're superstitions, okay, I have a banana before every game or something, that's an easily controlled variable, like you can make sure you have enough bananas on hand. But if you're routine is like, I need to make sure that I grab a diet coke zero cherry or the vending machine in this arena doesn't have it only Pepsi products, then your day is ruined. Like, I've seen those your positions get crazy. But the thing with any superstition is that it's just a behavior that you try and control that helps settle your nerves, like that's all it is, right? That's what it comes down to, is there's so much out of your control in like a hockey game, even like you're thinking about something simpler, like going for a job interview or taking a test at school, like there's all these parts of that that are out of your control. So like superstitions are a way that you are taking like ownership of that challenging situation to try and make it more palatable, try to make it something that you now have a little bit more agency over. So like Jamie and Derek already said, like I don't have any of the topic. Every player every person I play with always does something like some people only put their left skate on before the right skate is that, you know, superstitions or is that just like your routine behavior? Like, do you always put your same leg in your pants first? Like, I don't know. I think I do, but I couldn't tell you, but like again, like you guys already said, I think it's really comes down to it doesn't matter if they are, there's probably some funny ones that we could all laugh, ha, ha guys who are making millions of dollars doing it. But at the end of the day, if you're a younger goalie or even, you know, junior in college, like stock of what your pregame behaviors are and see which ones are productive and which ones are, you know, maybe a little silly, but you like to do and they can be negative, right? They can be a thing. So how can you actually take more ownership of your own preparation that doesn't become a 45 minute routine like Jamie's maybe or doesn't involve way longer than 45 minutes. I'm going to say 45 minutes. Literally started the day that the second I left my house to get like go to the rink and get like, so if I left the house at four, we put it seven, we're talking three hours in the warm-ups. It was exhausting. Yeah, that's probably too much Jamie. Probably should have done this. It was, man. I never said I was mentally tough. That's for sure. My last year of junior, I you're trucked to energy drinks. Now I would love to tell you what they were. I have absolutely no idea because my energy drinks around that time, oh my goodness. So this, yeah, this was 2004, 2005. So I would arrive 35 minutes to prune gel market in Stony Creek on Centennial Parkway. And I would get these two energy drinks that had cymbals and it looked like a Red Bull can, but it was not a Red Bull can. And I could not make up a single word and I would chug one right before warm up and then then get off warm up and I would chug one more and that was that was my routine. And I would spend the four next four hours after the game curled up in the fetal position with two worst cramps of my entire life. I remember we had a three hour bus ride after like a semi-final game six win and all the boys in the back of the bus and they're just they're just having beers and celebrating it. And I am lying down on the front seat on my side in the most excruciating pain because my superstation was whatever I was putting into my body. So just go waste like more fair. Yeah. Love a hell of you. So this is a vice I've added. So my only memory of Derek playing. So even Eric was still playing when he first started coaching me a little bit. Here's playing Higgasville Hawks, junior D hockey, rest in peace, junior D. And I remember. It would have been that year that you won, but my dad brought me the one. You watch you play and you obviously had the jerseys rolled up to the elbows. Good style points. But I remember the fans were getting the fans were nuts at the Higgasville Barn. I don't know who you were playing with as you away fans. And I just remember you hopped up and were yelling at them over the glass as they were yelling at you. And that's my only memory I have of Bush playing hockey. There's a small part of me that misses what, you know, floral hockey and the constant availability of all this access to hockey now is done to like the junior hockey scenes. Like there's like fans are dead. There's some throwing some team style of great fans in small towns, but the average junior fan is like 200 people at a game and probably less. Some of the best hockey to watch and you would notice I don't know if you still work with the junior C team, but no, like junior C hockey. I mean, it is what it is. But it's fun. Like it is. It is fun. You get into a junior C playoff game and in some of those small rural towns and everybody is there like Elmira, Jeterby and Stratford, Jeterby, like they did play a good strap. They were able to stay able to barn and I might be a new barn out, but like farming town, they bagged that place and it's a pretty good atmosphere. Everyone else is. It's like everyone's sitting on their fans and it's mom and dad and maybe the girlfriend and that's about it. But it was back then. It was the very quick story. I'll make this very, very fast because we're on the junior scene topic and I grew up in small towns. The junior C is for seat here, dear to your heart. It's near and dear. My very first junior C hockey game I ever seen in my life. We just played a minor hockey game in Caledonia, Ontario, where I now reside and they were playing Ashwigan right after we were playing, so I talked my old man to let me stay. The glass back then, so the stands were kind of elevated and then they went up and then the glass was only four foot glass back then. You could literally, if you were a fan, climb over the glass and be inside the playing surface. No, easily. They're playing Ashwigan and I must have been, I don't know, maybe nine or ten. These guys looked professional hockey players and they looked like they were in their thirties and I swear to God, in the middle of warmup, three guys on the Ashwigan team are wearing no buckets and smoking cigarettes. The one guy, Skates Buying, was like slap shot, the stick comes in the air and now there's a brawl in warmups and me and the guys on my team were kind of at the glass and I just remember a hand coming over my coat and just ripping me away from the glass and that's my old man. He's leaving and I'm like, this is the biggest thing I've ever seen. Why are we leaving? And he threw me in a car and I didn't even get to your half of warmup and I just, it was something. It was something, no, the federal league. Sorry, this is, this is, we've, we've lost the plot here, but I got so many good ones from the past couple of years, um, permanent, we're talking permanent police presence at playoff games. Wait, Junior, I got a good, I got a good story. I'll give you one in the last, last, uh, last year in playoffs, uh, there was a, you know, a bit of a bad hit in one of the games, not with the team that I was working with, that was involved with, uh, and after the game, the other team's parents were waiting for the coaches of the other team in the parking lot and they just brawled coaches were just brawing parents in the parking lot after lunch, but Junior, see, plan and welcome to the jungle, maybe. And there's, there's something both terrifying and also beautiful about that. You know, Jamie? When I was in Pembroke, uh, so June, we're on the junior A, but I was in Pembroke. We were like, I know we were playing Cornwall in the, whatever the, the championship is for the CCHL and, um, I'm one of the games we had to come in and we had to leave to like two or three hours earlier than we would usually leave. And no one kind of really knew why and there was like whispers on the bus, but never thought, maybe they just wanted to be there to be focused. So we didn't, I didn't know until, until warms was over. So it turns out the away game prior, one of our players had gotten into an altercation with one of the fans as they were exiting the tunnel and we then we played a game at home. And the next game, that player, we had to drop him off at the local jail in order to serve a two or three hour sentence before the police and the, the corn locals were to accept that he had done his, like his time before the game and so we, you had to go three hours early to drop him off and then go, the bus driver had to go pick a lot, brought him back in for a warm up. And I didn't notice until like the game started, I'm like, yeah, because the player threw a beer, like a beer out of, and the guy just grabbed the player and started feeding the tunnel. And yeah. So junior key, though, we're rocking Ontario, boys and sauce. Let's get to our next place. Persitions. Yeah. Let's get to the next question. Hey, this is a hundred, wait, can we just be fun too? Hi, gents, current listener of the podcast, congrats on the hunger episode. We'll be here of Boojans, not sure if I should be admitting that or not, just kidding Booj, grow 10, goal 10 and growing up. And one of my boys, fortunately, unfortunately, has followed the footsteps. The question is, moving forward, once you get to like the, you 14, 15, 16, ages and these kids want to try to make something of being a goalie, what do you think is their steps for success or what should they really be emphasizing on to try to achieve their goals? Thanks, guys. Keep up a good work. We lost this one. Graham, can you take this one? Thanks. Take this one. I think there's, oh, I'll start simple, what you guys belong in. I think the biggest thing to understand is this is going to look different for where you live in the world, right? So first things first, like those age groups are going to look different, depending if you're in Canada, the US, Europe, all sorts of things wherever you're playing. So take these answers with the grain of salt. I think the first thing as you're getting to those levels is doing like a little bit of self reflection on how, you know, you as a parent or you as a kid on like how you feel like you are doing right now, right? And if you are happy with how things are going, that in terms of like what you're doing for training, in terms of who you're working with, in terms of where you're playing, and kind of just actually doing a real evaluation because you 14, you 15, you 16 will say that, like, I think that is the ages where it starts getting more serious. Obviously there's, there's genuine future implications for you at those ages, which is crazy to say because you 14 is great, but like that's kind of when it starts on along that pathway, especially in Ontario on the girls side too. So that's what I'd say is take stock of where you're at. Are you happy with how you're training where you're training with? Are you happy with where you're playing how you're playing? And then I'll let you kind of build on like what you think are those important extra things that people should be doing at that point. I think you're right. Like it's, you gotta, when you get in those age, and that kind of up to that level, it's you have to make a conscious decision on if it's something you want to do because the second you get into you 15 and you have parties and you have outside influences and you have girls and you have your first, isn't this on spit and chicklets? You have girls and you have your first of the alcohol, priority, sometimes change. So you have to be mature enough to understand if it's something you actually want to do because I grew up watching the two of you guys and I could see the decisions you had to make at the times you had to make it. And it was, it was very apparent that coming up through those ranks, like those decisions for you guys were very easy to make because you knew what you wanted. You knew the path you wanted, you knew the end goal, you knew where you wanted to go. For you guys to make those choices every single day to get where you wanted to go was easy for you, but for 95% of the other guys, it was impossible and they couldn't make those choices and they didn't get as far as you guys got and that's okay too. It is what it is. That's, that's life and that's hockey. And we grow up playing this game and we won't play this game and hopefully when we're done playing, we still are in love with the game because that's, that's, it's from you 14 to your 20 years, like if you think hockey is hard now at you 10 new 11 to you 12, like it's not, it's not hard yet. Like you wait until it's like, Hey, I got this girlfriend who's bugging me because she wants to go for dinner on Friday night, but I got an early morning practice on Saturday and I know I got to get eight hours sleep and like how's, how's that decision going to go for you? All right, that's when things become a little bit more real and the decisions you make are going to affect your performance and affect kind of your life away from the ring too. So then that's the biggest thing as I can say is like, and shout out to Ryan Dickey who sent this message to former OHL goalie and very good goalie coach himself. That's for his son Leo who's playing Southern Tier AAA U 12, very good goalie himself. Those are the decisions that Leo is going to have to make on his own. And there's really nothing that goalie coaches or parents can, can do to kind of help. We can support, but we can't, we can't make him want it, right? That's the big thing. Tough, not much to add on, I agree with both what you're saying. I would say, let's say there's no guarantees, not in any of it, but if you're willing to go all in and make those sacrifices, then in my opinion, it's a worthwhile endeavor, whether you make it or not. I think it's important because you'll, you'll learn a lot about yourself, a lot about life, but I think in terms of things that you can put your energy and your money and your time into trying to be the best athlete, you can be embedding on yourself and betting, you know, betting on your health because it is a sport, it's physical activity, things like that. Bedding on yourself is always a great, great investment. And that's usually what I tell, tell, tell parents, I'm like, I, when they ask me about their kids, the first thing I say is, well, when they're young, I say, how do they look compared to their peers? Like when you go watch a game, do they look like, are they better or are they a lot worse than the boys are playing? And then when they want to take it seriously, I'm going to say, I'm going to be there to help guide them, help try to make sure they're making good decisions. But I can't want it for them and you can't want it for them either. They have to want it for themselves. And you're always going to feel like there's more you can, you're doing or this training program isn't the neck of the best one, or I can always do this, I can always do that. Stay consistent, give it your all, make those hard decisions, try to make the right choices. And when it's all some gun, if it was meant to be and you're willing to put in the work, really good things happen, you get to the your highest level hockey, whatever that level is. Yeah. And like, I always liked that last part too, is there's, I know this is hard for people, especially, especially as you play triple A and like, or the equivalent level as you get older, but you get to like U 15 and U 16 triple A and people think like you're, you're right there, like you're, it's just next levels junior, you're going to play college, you're going to go pro, you're going to go new, like, that is, it's hard to say this, but that is still so far away from, from going farther, like playing U 15, U 16 triple A is a huge accomplishment. It's a really cool thing like you've clearly worked hard, you've put in the time, and you should be like, you should be proud of your efforts to make to that level, but also know that you're not that close. Like your first team, the first time you, the first time you play in a mixed age group, you will see the difference, yeah, like, right, like we grow up playing as, like you're in your age group at the highest level, triple A double A, an A hockey, you're playing in Ontario, I know as you're playing in your age group, not till U 18 is it become a mixed age group. And you wait, you think it's easy, but wait till you get to a mixed age group. So like juniors, us four year span, OHL is a four year span, college can be a 10 year span, like who, like college is a infinite really span, right? So it's until you get in that mixed age group, and you like you think it's hard now, it's like, that's the thing is like all of these guys, and we all coach guys that are, they're just in a rush to get to junior, right? They're all just like, oh, I finally, I finally made it to juniors can be easy. And then you don't play for a month. And then you get traded, and then you get released, and then you bounce around, and it's like, now all you want is to have the security of playing on a U 18 minor hockey team where you know you're there for the whole year, like it ain't grassing greener on the other side, some kind of I'm smiling because I was on a podcast last week, and they the the host p fry asked like one of my one advice, and I said, you're not in the rush you think you're in, they need to be in like, if you're ready for junior, you know you're ready. If you are trying to rush in, you're trying to force it, you're not ready. Because I look at myself like, I say, yeah, you you went from being on the one top teams and you 16 to playing eight games junior be the next year, four starts. Let's go. And they were not good starts. Got pulled in the first one. That's the cup pulled in the first one, a three three tie, three three tie, Shadowwell and junior Canadians. Yeah, what an organization, but that's like, yeah, that's, and again, we've said this law that we already made said stories about junior see things, but again, there's again like tier one, two, two, three junior in the US, like there's a lot of good goalies like really good goalies playing these leagues, who like they're going to play their junior time out and that's it and there's nothing wrong with that. But like for every goalie getting in the U 14, U 15, U 16, if you live in an area where there's tier three junior or junior C, like grow and watch some of those 17, 18 year olds were only, you know, they're older, but there's some really great goalies out there who there's just also 500 better at their age group in North America, like that's how far those gaps are. Right. Like I always said this, like when I was coaching junior C in the area that I live, it's, it's a bit of an awkward location. There's no access to junior P. It's kind of junior A and there's even not that many junior A teams in the area. So you have junior C rosters that are littered with guys that only played triple A their whole life. From age from you 10 through you 18, they only played triple A and they'll play junior C and that's it. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's just like that's the reality. So planning for you 14, you 15, you 16 is just like, again, are you having fun? Do you want to do this? Do you understand that in order to work hard and be successful, you're going to have not, you're not going to have fun a lot of the time playing to, right? Like in the research that we too, we talk a lot about this idea of what's called like deliberate practice, which is a framework of things that are required of you to do to become an expert at something. And in the original, there's a big debate about this because like, obviously some goalie training sessions, which is hard work are so much fun, but there are so many sessions and practices of goalie that are not fun, right? So it's, it's hit and miss, but you have to be prepared to that. There's a lot of not fun along your roadmap. So you have to be willing to enjoy that or see the value in the not fun as well. And I think that's important to know. Next question. Hi guys. As a current, you 12 AAA goaltender, I'm wondering, what can I do to get better at my puck handling. Improve puck handling is a U12 goalie. Well, first of all, have a coach that lets you screw it up. Like that, that's the first thing that for coaches is going to let the boys screw up, let them eat cake, let them screw up because they're going to learn by screwing up. And then in terms of like the physical side, get strong hands, like, I shoot a ox. Yeah, practice. Yeah. But I did this and this was by accident and I don't know. I'm just kind of like this anecdotal, but for me, it's, it's now gospel. But I don't know, eight years ago, we did a fitness combine for my place and we tested all of the goalies grip. And the goalies that had the best grip strength caught most pucks. They did. And I don't know if there's a correlation, but for three combine years in a row, it was, it was consistently the guys that tested with the best grip had the best ability to catch a pucks. And so when I say to guys, like, just working their grip, it, because they're definitely having strong hands going to help you with puck handling, but I also think having really strong hands helps with catching bucks. And it's not because you can close your glove, like, like, that's not the thing. And I don't know how it correlates, but it, it correlated for every single combine we ever did. And I mean, you guys are the science guys, you tell me what's going on. Well, I mean, like for, for the shoes of things, I, I did the, I always show the younger goalies this trick, which is I'll, I'll grab their glove and with their glove, I'll just hold on to the stick. Like I do that. Yeah, that's like the classic, but it's like, my conversation is always you want to shoot better, be able to do this, right? And like, I had a really, it's like, it's no different. I remember being a kid, going, training it on ice, um, and like, Matt Clark, Sheriff Matt. And Matt, like, and for those missing, you know, for a long time, like crazy strong guy, like crazy strong, like used to be able to take slap shots pretty close to a hundred miles per hour, um, and I remember him showing me just like lifting up a 45 pound plate and like a front hold and just holding it for like 30 seconds. And he's like, if you can do that, you'll be able to shoot hard and it just, at some point there's just like some physical strength that needs to happen to be able to actually shoot hard. Like it just, yeah, you just outside of the physical strength, like doing grip training and shooting a lot of pox. And if you are shooting pox right now, probably more pox than you are currently shooting. When it comes to the practice thing, one thing I tell my goalies and the upside here is all the coaches I currently work with all are okay with our goalies, making mistakes. And they want their goalies to play the puck. But I say in practice, especially when you're doing like breakout drills or any sort of drill where there's a dump in, I say I want you to make, I want you just to make reckless decisions. I want you to go out and play it under circumstances where you normally wouldn't because I want you to get the confidence to be able to understand, okay, yes, I have time, no, I don't have time, or I'm under pressure right here. What do I do with it? I have a millisecond to make a move. What am I going for hand? Am I going backhand? I have deep pressure. So I'm trying to, I try to force my goalies to get themselves into uncomfortable situations and some a lot. And most of the time they turn it over and they make bad decisions. But over the course of the season, they start to make better decisions. And then when they make those quote, quote, reckless plays, even the decisions they make on that going out to get it under on a two on like two, two, four, two, F one and F two are checking them, they end up making a decent play, or they end up splitting those two and going right up the middle and something you would never do. And you're like, okay, cool, like that's the confidence I want you to have because I just exposed you to a bunch of scenarios where this scoreboard isn't on. And so that's how I get my goal is to kind of break out of that shell in practice. Also, again, like what Derek said, like coaches and goalies propose this play the puck on dumpins in practice with a forechecker, like get forechecked in practice. And you will quickly learn what is easy and hard about decision making and you'll get better at pocketing. And like you'll get scored on you will, you'll get picked pocketer, you'll turn it over and you will get scored on. And almost every goal we will go through that at one point in their life. When we talk about goalies, like playing three on three spring hockey, that's a perfect time to do a lot of puck handling because the game is so quick that there's a lot of loose pucks to that come into your zone. And if you do go play it, like you don't have a lot of time, you're going to have to make quick decisions and you're going to screw it up a lot. But it's summer of three on three, like who really cares? Go screw up. Yeah. Like I remember this too, is when I played junior Derek, like for those who don't know Derek was my goalie coaching junior and I had more assists in that year than some of the D on my team. So that's a, like you can just, like again, it's sometimes it's just risk taking like I also turned the puck over a decent amount, but it's just you learn enough. Like you do it enough. You practice stuff. You know what's a good risk. You know what's a bad risk. It's also like, again, aside from practice is understanding like what is always knowing what your safe play is. Like I think that's the biggest thing that stops goalies from playing the puck is they go, well, what happens if I lose it in my feet? Okay. Get back to the net. Like don't spin the circle for 30 seconds. Trying to find it in your feet. There's things like that, especially with younger goalies you can communicate to make these quote unquote safer plays outside of just, yeah, like golf exposure to reps at high and under high danger and, you know, under pressure, I can't, I don't, I have the worst boots when it comes to skating as much as I love to try to put pressure on my foot of the tee, the full season, you know, the goalies and I dump it in and not a great skater. So get some of those reps in that practice because it's, that's the best time to work on it. All right. New question. Booge, Jamie Ben, long time listener, first time caller. My question is in regards to my 10 year old girl who is currently playing for a youth or teenage this year. She's pretty proficient skater for age, very athletic and overall good goalie for age group, but is definitely struggling with tracking and catching pucks. She is consistently doing hand-eye drills, uses a sensorina, attends vision clinics, but it still seems like she's definitely struggling when it comes to catching pucks and tracking, even simple clear shots from the blue line that tends to squeak through with the no screens or any obstruction in front of her. Now, is this something at that age that she'll eventually improve upon with consistent practice? Is it a genetics thing or is it time to potentially consider going with soccer full-time? Just want to know your thoughts. Thanks, guys. If we don't think that that's coming from an absolute crazy hockey dad, then I don't know what we're doing here because that's just nonsense. I mean, that's not, I know what it is, but I'll let you guys go because this is a goal we have to work with and I'll tell you the problem. Quite a bit about what I think. I'll get it. I'll ask you guys a question. Do you ever have this conversation with parents or coaches where they'll tell you about a goal or they'll show you the video of a goal and you'll look at them and you'll say it, "Yeah, that's a little kitty goal," or, "That's just a pen, your own goal." That's the biggest, the like, "Oh, a person came down the wing and flipped the puck and they went to hit it and they bounced it off their glove off their head and they kicked it in," or, "I don't think that," or it's like your kid sometimes falls walking. Of course, that's going to happen, right? That's just a gangly, uncoordinated child. Like, go watch any youth sport. Go watch a rap baseball or softball game and like, Calametown is the shortstop, launches the ball into this, like, fourth bleacher. That's the same thing. It's just like a, right? Yeah. My answer is just let your daughter be a goalie. They're going to make a lot of mistakes. Eventually, it's going to click or it doesn't, but I'm sure they're not as bad at tracking pucks as you think they are. This is the part that you guys missed here is she's, she's 10 years old and she's like you're 13. I cannot be. She's played double, mid, minor, up, up, up. The reason she can't catch is because she wears a warrior junior glove. I mean, that's where the Warriors, man, because they close it up. So, but it cares that you were right, the only benefit they close in your glove is for puck handling. And that's the only benefit. Yeah. So I'm going to say that, uh, booze and I talked about this the other day, but I have, uh, I have a, I have a new sort of hot take and new answer finally to what people say. You can't. You can't because we already talked about this on episode. No, no, this is different. This is different. This is, this is the every set after, uh, if that we dare, can I archive a few podcasts? Um, but people say like, what do you think is the next evolution or adaptation or thing in goaltending? Like last thing, big thing was the RVH. I have a suspicion that it's going to be goalies are going to not going to close their glove because it's going to maximize the amount of coverage. So goalies are just going to continue to get better at just making saves without having to close their glove. Large, you know, pocket sizes are standardized. They're not going to close their glove because when you close it, it gets it small. It makes it smaller. You see those goalies that come in their gloves are like, they can't open it. They're like hooks, little captain hooks. They're all just going to be big and goalies are going to be used to just hand or glun questing them. And I see, I've seen more than five goalies playing high, high-ish level triple A, like you 14 and higher that don't close their glove to catch pucks. I think that's, that's my suspicion. You guys are just watching my college tape where I did not close my glove for three years straight. And a part of that was that, uh, I had a lot of equipment issues when I went to college because the first time, like the wrong block or glove showed up, then the wrong glove. So I was just constantly using like wrong equipment, long story short, I eventually ended up having to use a practice palm glove in games. Now, have anyone's ever had a practice palm glove before? Good luck. I love it. I love it. Not for games, but just love your practice for being close. So what would happen is I get a shot from the point in my practice pommel put that 16 bleachers out above the glove. It was so beeped up things in the face that you can't ever, every break is the right break. Close your glove. Right. We can just. Just session. But before we move on to just one thing I just want to say to the, to the caller and I put that in quotation marks too is maybe, maybe just maybe I'm thinking if all you do is talk about your daughter not being able to catch pucks all the time, maybe she stresses about that and it's in her head. Just maybe. But I'm just going on a win here. I don't know anything, but I'm just sick. I have a, I have a quick, I have a story and a question. I was working with a goalie who's like kind of the same age who worked with her for a little while. And like the first three months, um, like it was like fruit ninja, like karate chop in the puck every time it came near her glove. And her parents who were both lovely people that are super intense were like, well, I watch can't get the puck and I was just like, she's just going to learn to catch. Like don't force it. Like she's, she's just going to learn to catch. And then long, learn to catch, like just stop caring about it and, you know, let the nine and 10 year olds grow up a little bit. And as long as they're watching the puck and as long as they're like, you got to remember that making contact with the puck is like them requires watching and tracking the puck. Like it's not like you're that far off, right? It's not like you're wave, if you're weaving out entirely and missing it and it's going in. Okay, maybe there's a bit of a different thing. But I'm sure this was what I was going to say, and Derek, you probably have a lot more to talk with this. But did you ever have some goalies who when they first started out, you were like, Oh, no, this might be the worst goalie I've ever seen at like X, Y or Z, one of those, no Jamie, we know that already. You're not you. He's point. I know I speak. I think I, I think I created him because he lives in my, he lives in my house. So yes, I do say that all the time. But what the point I'll do say is you have these goalies who come in and you're like, this is actually, you know, the worst goalie. And then like three or four years pass and you're like squinting and you're like, wait a second. This is like the school is playing triple A or their girl and they're playing like the highest level double and you're like, wait a second, like firm years ago. This was like, I couldn't even watch this person do anything like stuff just takes time. Sometimes. I got a, I got a question. Now I'd like statute of limitations, maybe for you guys, but for me, like, have you, who is the worst goalie you've ever trained has got to a high level? I'm not going to, I mean, I'm not going to say names. I've worked with a lot of goalies over the years of Monday day names. I'm not going to say names. But there's a couple goalies where like I've worked with where people have been like, yeah, I know that person is never good. Like that person should not be playing hockey and they're like playing junior or high level junior or college, pretty good play, like, pretty good places and came from like the school of goal-tending. Ben, you might remember you remember Carke Schultz. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why do I remember that name? I think he was like, he was born a couple years younger than me. He was a few years younger. A 99 birth year. Yeah. So Clark, Clark was a horrible goalie, but played three years, two or three years of AAA. And it was like, oh my God, like, like, ended up quitting hockey became like a very high level rower and scissors and like genius smart kid, but like just loved being goalie and was a terrible goalie. Big and like, he was a kid or like you get to, you're like, that kid never should have got to AAA. And I was able to help him get to Triple A. You know, he wasn't a very good Triple A goalie. And anybody got there and it was just like, I love Clark and I'm sure he's never going to listen to this. But he's too busy like out on the lake somewhere rowing and living his life and probably making millions of dollars as a rock and surgeon. Or something. My kid trains out a goalie training facility that has a 30 by 70 rank. At times, I start to wonder if the small tight areas for training are the most beneficial. Tight area drills are great, but I'm starting to be attracted to those goalie coaches who use full ice just with seeing how hot these shots are coming in from the top of the circle and blue line area seems like within the hockey studio, it's too tight and small to work on those types of shots. Could you see that being a problem? Well, one of them was yeah, what was all it's office that was all the facility. The other one there too, I don't know about you Ben, but I train exclusively on full ice because that's the only thing I have available. I use a varying size ice depending on what we're doing. So this because I always I'll I'll just I'll go I'll go on for too long. I'll I'll I'll go first I'll be Van Bouch so you you should have a combination of both. Most of the high the small areas depending on how small your small training facility is. I guess we all trained it on ice grown up. That's typically everything kind of in the high slot danger zone area and below. Those are high danger shots. Those are the great eight pluses. Those are the ones that you know where you know where you make your money as a goalie. However, if you train exclusively on those, you probably are going to have some problems and when the transitioning into the season, especially after summer training. So making sure that if you are training a good goalie coach who owns one of these clinics should add in full ice sessions throughout the summer to make sure that you're not basically just becoming robotic at one thing or the other. And then when you transition into practice, making sure you are taking those practice times seriously because that is that full ice training, it's just not with your goalie coach full time. So that's my answer. My I mean, yeah, that's like probably the correct like that is probably the most correct answer. The thing I'm going to put back is unless like in so much of what you're doing, like even when you're doing goalie coach or goalie sessions on full ice and everyone, you can always design better drills and maximize space better, but so many drills don't even use the full space of a full ice that you're doing anyway. Like that's the thing that I always default back to whenever I'm, whenever I'm, you know, I'll say too many weeks in a row of only being on a smaller surface, I'm like, oh, will I kill for for a little bit of space and then I get out there and I'm just standing roughly in the same spot. Like I'm like doing things kind of relatively in the same area, I'm like, okay. So is the added bonus being out in the bigger ice that the angles and like the playing service, just mimics the game? Yeah, there's probably a little bit of an advantage to that, which is fine. But I think funny enough, I thought about this question earlier this week because I know we had heard it and I kept being like, oh, maybe at this age, it's better to be out in the full ice more. And then I kept thinking at every single age, I was like, no, like at every single age, it still makes sense that there's nothing wrong with the smaller training service. In fact, like you're probably going to have a more efficient training session when you're not chasing pucks around the ice, cleaning up the whole time in a full ice rink, which I feel like I spent it. That's why you got to lay the doing, you got to lay the black pads around. So when I miss the net, it hit the pads. Yeah. Well, look, if you have $14,000 worth of equipment at your rink that you run out of all your stuff out of, then then you have the luxury of that. Why don't you get, why don't you have that? No, but it's just, yes, but at the upside, then I do like on the full ice. I mean, you're right because a lot of the drills could be done in the small area. The difference is obviously I could be a lot wider with things, but I like that I could have my players skate in and step in a little bit more in their shots. That's probably the, it would say if there's one major upside, it would, it's that where my players can step in, make a move, push, pull, which you talked about and how players are changing the angle so much more. A larger ice surface allows for that a little bit more freedom for those players to change their angle without being in confined spaces. And we do that in the summer. Like in the summer, I spend way more time on a full ice than I do during the season. And I'm sure I think Derek's going to say the same thing there too. Where it's. Of course I am. Yeah. So because you guys, for the most part, gang on, I'm so proud of you guys. Now listen, I'll even say this and this, this, this might be the fun part. The people who tell you or the goalie coaches that will actively tell parents, you can't train at a facility, you can't train on a small rig, you can't are the ones who don't have access to them. And it's because they're using that as a way to recruit you to leave your current goalie coach. And trust me, I've had so much experience with that telling me, oh, you can't, you can't train there. You can't train there. It's too small. Okay. Success speaks. So. That means. Yeah. Yeah. Number two, the part that stuck out to me for that person's question was the idea that my son keeps getting better. He's playing triple a hockey, but I'm, I see the appeal of bigger goalie coaches doing other things. If your kid is getting better, stop trying to change what's working. Your son is working with a goalie coach that is making him better. Don't go and look for something else. If it's working, if your kid is still getting better, then don't stop that. Do what is working until it's not working anymore. And we've all had this where like, we'll work with a goalie. He'll make you a 13 triple a team and then boom, there's like five other goalie coaches being like, oh, you got to change, you got to come see with me. Like I was doing this wrong, that guy's doing this wrong. And then they get like, they get that appeal and they get that like, they feel important. And then they kind of jump and bounce around goalie coaches. And I guess what all, all the guys that had had that happen, they all come back to me. Like they come back because things aren't working anymore. Or they go and they just see that, okay, like this guy just recruited me because boom, I had three A's in front of where I played now and now I'm not playing double a and they all want to work with you. They're going to change what's working. If your kid's getting better, if your kid's getting better on full ice, working with a goalie coach, keep doing that. And if your kid's getting better at training at a facility, keep doing that. But you're right. Like training at a facility in season is perfect. Classes are more intense, there's more reps, it's easier to control variables. Any goalie coach worth anything can create scenarios and situations on or in a training facility that you can, that are mimicked from full ice stuff. And then nailed it on the head is that when you get to summer, any good goalie coach will have full ice sessions probably because they do understand that you need to have both. Like you do want the full ice, but in season, I don't think you need to go to a full ice goalie coach because you're going to need more. No, I was about to say that. Cause it cost, depending where you are, I mean the cost of ice, where I am fluctuates between 300 to 500 dollars for the hour. And as someone who trains exclusively on full-size ice, there are many days where I go while I wish I had small ice. I wish I just had a small ice where I could just, I was doing all tight stuff. I didn't need to have the full ice. Like there's no need for it. There's like, I always have this conversation in the summer where, and again, like I am so thankful that I get to work with the goalies that I do. Like we have a great group of men and women and boys and girls. We got to work with us. Awesome. I know you guys do too. Um, but we'll have people in the summer who will be like, Hey, can I get, you know, like a, a me and a, in a, in this person, semi-private full ice. And we're like, at this rank, sometimes we get that request. And we're like, sure, the price of ice is three 48 per summer at 11 a.m. Yeah. Right. Crime, prime time ice. Yeah. 350 for ice and okay, now you want, you know, one, now your coach, now you maybe want shooters. Well, I can't bring shooters. Okay. I got to pay shooters. So now you're looking for that 50 minutes of ice because the flood is going to kick you off depending on, again, what your goalie coach is charging you, but you're looking at maybe close to $500 to run that 50 minutes ice. Right. That's, yeah, listen, as a goalie, dad, and someone who deals with goalie parents and hockey parents is the last thing parents think about is what it's going to cost them. Yeah. Like they really, and then that's where it's like, we got to kind of talk some sense and the people will be like, like I had people coming from London. So London to Hamilton for people who don't know is about 90 minutes. Yeah. And there's a bunch of goalie coaches kind of probably in the way, but a kid who was playing low level pro that told me he was spending $340 per training session to skate in London. And as a part of it, and he's like, yeah, it wasn't even a private to semi private. I'm like, 340 dollars. And it was with a goalie coach who we will, we'll remain nameless, but wears a jacket with his blue and charging $340 an hour. And he's like, I changed. I went to somebody else and they were charging me $220. I'm like, okay, well, it's a lot cheaper, but it's still crazy. Yeah, but it was only 30 minutes, $220. So he comes to my training facility and he skates with me in a group before in the league group and it's $85 an hour. And he pays $85 per class on a train facility or train train pad where I bet you he gets, I bet you at least two times more shots. And I'm not saying like the shock quantity is important. That's not where I'm saying it all. I'm saying intensity of a lesson is usually a little bit higher in a facility than it is on full ice. And that is, and like also, I don't agree that intensity of a training session is important either. So that's not, that's not throwing me over the colds for that, but it's just in terms of your return on investment. And for this parent, I mean, the biggest thing that stuck out to me is like, if it's working, don't change anything. Please stop, stop trying to go to a shiny goalie coach because your kids play in tripling. You think you need to go to a bigger guy with more connections. That's crazy. So you're telling me that when I was drafted to the OHL and I got a letter personally signed by so and so goalie coach, large goalie coach Ontario asking me to come trade with them so he could add me on his list and know the alumni's. That wasn't because he thought I was good. I don't believe it. I just don't believe it. Is he watched you play? He would have known you want to get that this, I don't know who I had this, this conversation with never, who was the directors going for the goal is Rob, Rob Kidamira? Was that EOHL? Rob? Yeah, it wasn't for the goalies. He was just like, Oh, it's just like head of central OHL scanning. Yes, how to conversation with parents about like things our coaches yelled at us. And so our favorite coach that I had in minor midget and you had Ben and junior, I gave my goal for, yeah, I gave up a goal like first shot of the game, right off the face off, step over the blue line, dumped it in. And that's when the head of OHL scouting was there. And I remember just getting ripped apart and how he thought and he told me I needed glasses and so my scouting report from this guy just said needs glasses, can't stop puck. So like it doesn't, it like none of my unbelievable statistics for the entire year were completely irrelevant because this guy watched one game where I happened to just be chasing butterflies and still played great the rest of the game one, but the first shot just let it in and that was it game game over, like ruined my stock forever and then I got shredded apart. That's right, so we were talking about like kids like, you know, we're 15, six, you know, we're getting yelled at so bad for three years, just but it prepared me for when we're at the junior and I just got yelled at and we're at the college and I got yelled at again. So I don't know, maybe I'm the common denominator here, but I just got yelled at a lot and you kind of need to get this hot take, you kind of need to get yelled at sometimes in order to learn how to handle being yelled at because you're going to get yelled at when you go to junior and coaches, it's their livelihood and if you don't perform, they get fired and they don't eat and their kids, they don't pay rent or mortgage. So you got to learn and so sometimes I think the conversation was about sometimes where kids were, they didn't weren't happy with their coaches because their coaches were too hard on them and they wanted softer coaches or something like that, but I just remember that definitely him yelling at me all the time. So I have a, I would just remember that, but I think this might be a good time to wrap up with a kind of like maybe one, everybody gets 60 seconds for, I ain't even one question we didn't have a lesson there, said in like six questions or gave him one of his questions. Okay, hurry, hurry. Hey guys, congratulations on a hundred episodes. Is it me or do true goalie sticks break a lot easier than everybody else's? Thanks. But. No. Oh, I don't know, like granddip's mad when we defame anybody. What? All the fame, yeah guys, it's true goaly stick, proportionately the worst goaly stick ever made. It is so unproportionately designed and it, I don't know how they, I don't know how durability is now, but like, I'd say five, six years ago, they broke within 28 days every single time or like 31 a day after the like whatever, all that they have said so hard to see. They are the most, if you ever pick one up and you try to like feel about it is so badly balanced and miss shaped and it's terrible. Stay away from the true goaly stick. Everything else true is amazing. Please sponsor us. Jamie, question for you in, let's say junior college even, how many sticks did you go through in a season? I used, I was, did not want to use composite until I read prose. I used wood. So I, that's what I'm asking. And when people say, so CCM, when they, CCM came over there, she's in premier one stick, the worst, most, least durable stick ever created and admitted CCM to their credit admitted that there was a massive mouth out, like a manufacturing depth, whatever problem. Uh, what do 46 sticks one year of their sticks? Uh, I actually once took three, three, three shots, three broken sticks. So I had, and this was made out of all of us, so broken shot, like real stick, the trainers were keeping up my sticks during practice in order for me not to run out of sticks because they were so poorly made. I do believe they fixed them, although in my office, I have a bro, a, a ball of broken goalie sticks and player sticks. Majority of the broken goalie sticks are CCM and true. I was going to say, go, I was going to ask you to go back for that when you were using wood sticks, like in junior, oh my sure was were sweet, man, those were like, that, that was a shock point. I would go through again, this was like U 16 triple A prep school, college, junior, like I would, would go through those Sherwood, nine, nine, 50s. I would buy six for a season and I would, and the season with four left, like two of them would be pretty shredded, but like, again, I agree, like I actually think the composite sticks because again, we talked before the top end stuff is designed for high level performance. So it's going to break easier because it's designed to give you the best performance that does not mean the most durable performance. It's designed for guys that get 46 sticks, 46 sticks a year like I was getting because it's you're not your parents are paying for it. I'm surprised you. I'm surprised it's the true ones and not, I've you guys had the issues with, I don't know the model, I think it's the mock, the bower that has like the thin outside frame and then the thick pack. I haven't had it. So when that Q and a Supreme, that's, that's what I use. And actually that's not where the sticks break. On that one, they break kind of where the, the blade meets the paddle. Yeah. No, the, I'm sick. I've had so many of our guys and girls have like lost sticks to the paddle exploding, but also yeah, where the, where the blade, the blade meets the paddle, just like the bottom falling out of it entirely. Who are the sticks that breaking a shaft? There's a company and they break them all in the same. It might be, well, it's definitely CCM. It might be CCM. CCM to you is why, like you used like they were called the foam core, right? The wooden sticks. I didn't use foam cores for so long and then why did you switch over? So let's go back to our first question about superstitions. I actually just really liked how it felt like I, I wasn't, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't really matter. Like I had never had issues making saves with my sticks. I wasn't the sickest pack handler at all time. So it didn't, it just didn't really matter. It felt comfortable. And then when I went to, when I signed with Winnipeg, Eric Comrie was where he's using cops at sticks. And I was like, uh, he's kind of cool. Yeah. Sure. Why not for free? And that I was really the only reason I switched. And then I just went through so many CCM ones. The bower ones have been pretty solid for me. The warrior ones have been pretty durable. Um, I don't know if it was war, some of them don't have a weird, weird, like contoured, blah, blah, the shaft out of them. I don't like the contour. Yeah. I don't like, I don't like that very much, but I, but you can, you can also get this thing. I can't remember what it's called, but it's like a, basically a little protective sleeve that you can get that covers the shaft of a stick for your practice sticks. So that's above like where you keep your blocker. So it can take more, uh, like shots off the shaft without breaking. And I think it's 25 bucks. Uh, let me see if I'm fine because they don't sponsor the birds, big, it's hard to do. Yeah. I mean, I guess like I finished my last year playing with 2016. I never used a comps stick. Like I never used one in my entire life as a goalie. Like, I just couldn't make the switch. Like, I don't know if it wasn't, it wasn't a superstition thing. I just like didn't like, I just didn't like them. There's a couple of pro guys that come that I, that I skate with me and they prefer foam core sticks because they have, um, like arthritis in their hands and in the wrists. And they feel their wife in the vibration. You know, the comps and sticks aren't good for them. So they just, they use the phone core still says I have a bunch of them. So I sound them like 50 bucks. Another weird question, but the same, same vein. What do you guys think about that protocol stick, that thing with like the P, whatever? P 28 or with the 70 spots, 70 clicks. I use one to shoot. Yeah. I'd a rocket of a shot. Yeah. It's going to drizzle. All they're going to do is still over the, shoot over the glass. Every time I see a goalie who I know for a fact is not paying for their own sticks is I go, and especially when it's like U 14, U 15, U 16. I see it and I go, Oh, no, I'm going to be the one to break this. Like I'm going to be the one who's going to take a shot. I'm going to shatter the, the, the shots on a shot. And now the parents going to open me for breaking this $500 stick. It's crazy. They look, look, they look, they snap the puck. I don't think I'd ever use one. So, uh, that product is called a twig cover. Sorry. Yeah. Twig cover, $25 Canadian and it's just a little, it's a piece of plastic that you can put over, uh, I think it's the same people that make paddle wedge. So shout out that because that's like a pretty good way to save your stick, especially if your sticks typically break in the shaft soft shots. So. Yeah. I know that episodes I wanted to, I want to do a quick little, like in one minute, it's all you get, uh, as many stores you want to fit into one minute of all the times coaches yelled at you or did something ridiculous. I've got three really good ones, uh, one, I think I've told probably all of these over the past two years. So they were fresher for everyone. One time doing a five on no power play drill, uh, where I was the goal against a five on Oh, a guy went to go double back door, fan on it. I slid and so I slid across as the puck didn't go back across the door and the guy just put it in five on Oh, and I got thrown off the ice. Like straight to the locker room was asked not to return to crack. I'm not going to make that say college. I was wanting me to get through as one, um, in junior with, I've run with the same coach real work with, uh, they, other team dumped the puck in from the far to the ice. It was icing as far as I could tell and I was counting butterflies like Jamie. So I went and stopped the puck and was like kicking it in my feet and it got you would know where and just kick to put it right in the net. Intermission, it hurts, just berates me for like seven minutes. We were down one nothing. We won the game five one, not only did you get berated. I also got my bad Derek. That's on me. I was just counting butterflies kicking. I was staring at the empty seats in the stands there. And then my favorite, this is a side note, but it just reminded me I once was in a game. Again, I was shot counter before I was once in a junior game where I got scored on on a rebound and the shots went down, like down. I lost a shot against after getting scored on a rebound and those are my three quick stores from the past 100 episodes that I've probably told before that I think I got one that will stay on the same, will stay on the same topic of the one coach that we all worked with. But I was working with, uh, the St. Catherine's Falcons, junior B team in St. Catherine's Ontario and oh, as I was saying, kiss this one, sir. I think Catherine's Ontario God's country and, uh, the goal that I was playing was not Ben, but it was his good buddy, Jonathan Delario, uh, concluding the show. And I think in the first period, he went like 13 for 13 and so I come down and I always were down and I just, I went down because I think I had, I think I'd take a piss. So I come down and the coach pulls you so he's like, you are doing an unbelievable job. I mean, after this game, I'm going to talk to the executive book, get you a raise because I can't believe how good our goal is your play. And he's like, all right, second period, he gave up three on seven. So I came down and it was, if you could teach these idiots how to look a slave and I'm going to find another goalie coach that can, he's like, he is terrible in the office. I'm like, okay, that happened, that turned real quick. And, uh, yeah, that's our, that's our good friend. And I love the guy. He did the race. Did you get ice? I did not get the raise being fired and we ended up winning the same thing. We won four three over time and then the key, I called up to the OHL and I got a picture of him stopping Conor McDade on a breakaway hanging up in my office. Mice by quick stories, I'll see if I can give you three rabbit fire. First one would be same coach for allowing the goalie by goalie partner's parents to be the ones that count shots. So you can imagine how that's going to go. Um, actually, I was trying to think of ones I haven't told in the pond. Uh, junior. So shut it up. Sheldon Keith, day after rookie party, the practice after rookie party, doing a 20 minute three on O drill below the hash marks and me throwing up him, knowing that I was a rookie and college, bell Pearson, him making myself a Phoenix cobbly, watch goalie break down and goalie, like goalie highlights and things to do, uh, other goalies in our league and telling us we had to play more like other goalies in our league also in front of the entire team. So those are my quick rapid fire three. Uh, Jimmy, I know this happened to you, but this is still my favorite. The video one, there's nothing, there was nothing worse than a goalie gotten in a bad goal. And the coach just rewinding, just rewinding. Well, or like I'll give my force away where I just say the thing where, but, and it's funny because sometimes I won't do this to the goal, same degree, but I'll reference it. But I made a member a save and it popped out of my glove, but we picked up the puck, broke out of the zone, turned it over at the top of their blue line, then they came back and they scored three on two and we rewowed that puck popping on to my glove eight times. And somehow it was my fault because I didn't catch it and get through this. So. Yeah. Oh, that was there. Yeah. So is he wrong? If you cut it, what do you know with? Yeah, but then they would have won the draw on a set play. They would have scooted. I don't know. And I don't know. But that's rarely rarely do you see the coach hit you with the butterfly effect goal. It's like, it's one thing if the puck hits you in the grub and the place stays in your zone and you get scored on, but then the play like fully re-established. I know. I know. Wow. Well, what hopefully here's to a hundred more, definitely think about a hundred more topics to talk about. I think what we show up with the other stupid things parents do and there'll be more rule changes. We knew how we had. We had so many. We saw a lot of questions we didn't get to so that we can we'll turn those into topics. I'm sure that we'll talk at least 20 more times this year about the NCAA CHL because that's my favorite thing to talk about. I was about to say we have at least six or seven more episodes of no borders in Ontario minor hockey. Oh, yeah. We see how does no burst play out. I can't wait for it. Hey, boy. I haven't even started yet because the OHF is not allowing any tampering guide. Yeah. I heard them. Oh, oh, man. Guys, if it's against the rules, we can't do it. This is my parting shot. This is my parting shot and I'll let you go. So the rule right now in Ontario is the coaches can't be announced before February 15. But the associations are allowed to tell the coaches that they're coaching the team as of January 15. So one month before, but those coaches are not allowed to tell anybody. They can be told that they're coaching, but they are just not allowed to let anybody know that they are coaches that that team for next year until February 50. Oh, small. Let's go. Which is a similar. They was have a freshly paved driveway, new pool in the backyard. I think that's nice. I also would like to point out that this past year in Ontario, there was like four 15 U. Two double A girls, coaches who lost their job for tampering. So the tampering watches on only four, the other 107 weren't trying already. Well, I didn't understand how there's there's teams of people building, but that's okay. That's not. Can't breathe. Yeah. It is. They're just bad for getting caught. That's really what it comes down to. You're right. Well, everyone, thank you so much. If you've made it this far, the four of you, thank you so much for listening all the way through this hour and a half episode. We appreciate you. But everyone who did manage to listen this whole time. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thanks so much for sending questions. Thanks so much for engaging in the stuff that we put out. I know I'm speaking for all of us when I say that we really enjoy most importantly, beyond just the topics we talk about, most importantly, enjoy talking to people about this topics that we cover here. So we're super thankful to everyone who enjoys it and get something out of it and the great conversations and the people we get to speak to along the way. So yeah, hoping for at least a couple more. And maybe you see us in ranks and you listen in the pod and you like it and have any ideas to say hi. It's always great to meet listeners in person because, you know, we just talk to three of us to ourselves. So it's nice to know that people on the other end. 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100 episodes later, here we are. A Goalie Science QnA to wrap up 2024, and our 100th episode of the show. Thank you to everyone who listens, and the great conversations we've had stemming from the podcast. We appreciate all of you.
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